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/lit/ is for the discussion of literature, specifically books (fiction & non-fiction), short stories, poetry, creative writing, etc. If you want to discuss history, religion, or the humanities, go to /his/. If you want to discuss politics, go to /pol/. Philosophical discussion can go on either /lit/ or /his/, but those discussions of philosophy that take place on /lit/ should be based around specific philosophical works to which posters can refer.

Check the wiki, the catalog, and the archive before asking for advice or recommendations, and please refrain from starting new threads for questions that can be answered by a search engine.

/lit/ is a slow board! Please take the time to read what others have written, and try to make thoughtful, well-written posts of your own. Bump replies are not necessary.

Looking for books online? Check here:
Guide to #bookz
https://www.geocities.ws/prissy_90/Media/Texts/BookzHelp19kb.htm
Bookzz
http://b-ok.cc/
http://libgen.rs/
Recommended Literature
http://4chanlit.wikia.com/wiki/Recommended_Reading
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Are you incapable of making decisions without the guidance of anonymous internet strangers? Open this thread for some recommendations.

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/wwoym/

Prev >>21296717
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>>21304913
We can already witness your brain damage by your limited first order reading comprehension capability (the fact that there are some physical beings that might be called as 'wine aunts' are completely separate from the things rent free in your head).
>>
>>21304917
The fact you think I drink (I don't, and haven't for four years or so) to "own imaginary wine aunts" shows your reading comprehension is pretty abysmal yourself, anon. Have a drink and loosen up, you could sure use it :^)
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>>21301762
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Damn Mormons ITT
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>>21304925
I think you meant to use the npcjak, anon
The chudjak is more fitting for the people he describes in that post

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Space investigation Edition

Previous Thread:>>21292894

>Recommended reading charts (Look here before asking for vague recs)
https://mega.nz/folder/kj5hWI6J#0cyw0-ZdvZKOJW3fPI6RfQ/folder/guIyhAzS

>Archive
https://warosu.org/lit/?task=search2&search_subject=sffg

>Goodreads
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/1029811-sffg
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>>21304890
Childhood's End.
>>
Any recommendations for stories that take place at the end of the universe?
>>
>>21304812
Lmao, Herbert was such a coomer.
>>21304903
Dancers at the End of Time by Michael Moorcock.
Spoiler warning (not really since it literally happens in the first chapter) the protag has an incestous relationship with his mother and it's treated like it was normal for most of the book.
>>
>>21304903
>>21304890
Three Body Problem does both
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>>21304918
Based Morecock.

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Rate what billionaire's read.
What books have you read of these?

>https://www.mostrecommendedbooks.com/books-billionaires-read
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>>21300939
complete and utter goyslop
>>
Reddit Player One Core
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>>21304594
They don't actuallly read this. Its just promotion and propaganda.
>>
>>21300939
>sam walton

what´s the deal with boomers and their americana culture? utterly and unfiltered CRINGE
>>
>>21300939
I've read a few of these, so...

1. Principles - I read this early in my "I need to be financially literate" phase and it focused more on management than finance. Didn't get much out of it.
3. High Output Management - One guy's take on management. Kind of anachronistic these days (especially if you're in a business that doesn't sell a physical product) but a great conversation starter in our management book club.
4. Atlas Shrugged - Great sci fi page turner with cringe political speeches. Still would recommend.
14. The Art of War - Personally I got a lot more out of Tao Te Ching.
15. Zero to One - Let's rehash Lean Startup for a new generation.
16. Lean Startup - How to measure success and run your business on experiments. 100% would recommend.
18. Thinking Fast and Slow - Kind of repetitive but yeah our brain operates in two ways and different people are better at each. Educational but overrated / overwrought, imo.
24. Getting to YES - As a manager, I find Crucial Conversations more useful than this book which is more focused on sales.
41. Mythical Man Month - Overrated. It's a collection of blog posts you've probably already read.
46. 4 Hour Workweek - Explains the monetization and outsourcing of the internet of the last 20+ years. More depressing than useful, for me.
47. Cryptonomicon - Didn't finish this but it was fun. I took notes because I knew, with its length, I'd have to take a break,
50. How to Win Friends - How to be a manipulative autist.

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David Collins Jr Sr was a billionaire CEO BDSM playboy muscular tattooed model cowboy magician from Slytherin by day, an alpha stud, but by night he was a vampire werewolf alien orc from another planet. He can't be tamed, or so he thought, until...

Jane Doe Smith is an acne plagued obese single mom of four working part-time at McDonalds until she catches the eye of a stunning billionaire playboy CEO while he orders a four hundred piece mcnugget from her in the drivethru lane in his helicopter-limo. He falls for her instantly, but when their worlds collide, will his erotic passion be enough to overcome Voldemort's attempts to interfere in their love?
>>
got me wet af

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Well /lit/?
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>>21304695
Shelley did write several books after Frankenstein but all of them suck and the only reason Frankenstein was good is because she was influenced by Percy Shelley (who wrote 1/5th of it) and Byron
>>
>>21303432
If we shut down women's studies topics outside of the major would enrollment in the humanities dry up? Real question
>>
>>21301574
I remember reading Anthem in a single day. For better or for worse, it had a big impact on my mental development when I read it as a first-year highschooler. Still enjoy the story years later, but I suspect it's partly due to nostalgia.
>>
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>>21301879
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>>21303192
>When women talk I only hear the Charlie Brown noises that the adults make.

Similar, and I find just go "really?" or "yeah." suffices to continue the conversation with them without taking in anything they're saying.

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I need help with a concept:
I want to write a society that's both matriarchal and polyandrous that'd be viable IRL and possible to explain rationally. Like so:
>Coastal rainforest society. Acidic soils. Food is mostly imported and has been for centuries, but a form of agroforestry is practiced in tandem with stable, swidden agriculture.
>All property is inherited by women, and men are married into their wives' families. Purely matrilineal organization.
>Girls are educated in the primary trades of their day. Men are expected to learn to fight, farm, and sail.
>Young boys are "bound" to a wealthy older girl from their youths, as a precursor to marriage. In adulthood, she directs their efforts, and receives the greater portion of benefits from their labor.
>Poorer women serve in wealthier households as surrogate mothers and craftswomen (with one of their chief products being agricultural lime), giving birth to the children of junior husbands, which are then adopted by the matriarch. However, only the first daughter born directly to a matriarch has any right to inheritance. If she's unable to produce a child, then the first of her handmaidens' children receives the lion's share of the inheritance, with a portion going back directly to the family estate.
>Sons of men of this ethnicity with foreign women have the same rights as most men, while daughters are left with their mothers.
>Wealthy men from other nations can marry in and retain their status, but all authority is exercised through their wives.
I'm leaning on property and the limits of agrarian expansion to make this work. It's partially inspired by the Cham of what's now Southern Vietnam. Thoughts?
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>>21298174
>You'd have to flip the sexual dimorphism of humans
This. If you want to keep it reasonable, the closest I can think of is the woman in the role of a sort of hearth master and counsel, where everything within the domicile is pretty much her domain. That sort of dynamic was, and sort of is, very common in Mediterranean cultures
>>
>>21304781
>The concept of marrying into families and matriliniarity doesn't mesh with the idea of open relationships.
There's still a recognized pair in a marriage, but neither one is entirely faithful to the other.
>What's supposed to happen when two servants produce a child, it's just bonded to an upper-class woman as a servant?
No. It just wears the matriarch's family name.
>What you're describing is simply a slave-society.
Please don't proceed on with misunderstandings.
>Why exactly would lower class men not just rebel and take power?
Rebellions don't just crop up for purely ideological reasons, so even if these guys collectively decided they didn't like the ruling matriarchy, you'd need a lot of political turmoil for that cornerstone of their society to fall under threat.
>Why would they support a system where they do the most intensive labor and still risk their lives in conflict and yet they can't reap rewards?
They can and do. Groups of guys bring back plenty of their wealth to their wives, and because the homes are shared, the overall costs involved are reduced. The woman is just considered to be the center of finance, as was normal in pre-modern times.
>You're responding like your given reasoning is realistic and satisfactory, but if you thought that I don't know why you'd start a thread centered around the questioning of the idea's realism.
I was looking for things to add to stabilize the concept.
>>
>>21296823
having lived in a society with a lot of matriarchal aspects, i can give you some tips


>most normies are shy but sociable
>most people behave like sheep, they don´t want to stand out
>if someone stands out, it´s perceived in a negative light
>there are unspoken social rules and they don´t like it when you break it, so being an autist doesn´t help
>the mom is seen as some sort of virgin mary, holy and sacred, meanwhile you can shittalk your dad and nobody will bait an eye
>they shame you if you don´t have any friends, no matter the gender
>if you´re a man they likely to judge you more than if you´re a woman
>most normies don´t have ambitions and their life goals is reducible to having friends, protect his family (extended family) and chill after work, sort of like hobbits
>when attracting female companion: most girls will judge on the basis if you have a lot of friends and are socially popular, they don´t care how much money, success, ambition you have, you can be alexander of macedon but no friends and no popularity means you don´t get laid at all
>socially conservative but avoids to work whenever possible
>single moms are everywhere
>>
>>21304896
... South Korea?
>>
>>21304922
country from south america

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Zoomers literally don't read, bros. I'm not making shit up here, NOBODY under the age of like 23 is reading even semi-casually anymore. Fuck self-help books, fuck Wikipedia articles, fuck 4chan posts, the overwhelming majority of young people do not read ANYTHING beyond ESL TikTok captions and unpunctuated text messages. This is what 21st century literacy has become and not a single educator wants to even broach the subject.
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I'm 30 and nobody I know reads.
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>>21304538
Every flock needs a good shepherd
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>>21304538
Again, why does /lit/ care so much whether or not people are reading? How else would the psueds distinguish themselves among the NPCs as they see it?
>>
>>21304538
that's a good thing. society needs to collapse. history is a burden.
>>
>>21304538
Book sales, in particular young adult, prove otherwise

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Do you have any material that can help someone learn French from nothing? Can be anything really,will check everything.

I study law and want to learn another language and french is an important language for law studies but I am too poor to afford getting a teacher.

I was thinking trying my self to get to a beginners level and see how it is and then maybe save money to get a teacher.
>>
>>21304919
You know how to use a torrent?
Pirate the Michel Thomas french course.
Read french children's books
shitpost on /int/
watch french media.

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What would happen to me if i read entire Shorter Summa? Would i get insane christian meditation skills? Or some transcendental knowledge that would convert me into right path?
>inb4 read it and see
My version is 1000 pages long and largest format i have, you can kill people with this book its so big.

Look at the size of that thing. Absolute unit. Thoughts on this book?

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Does Psalm 82 refer to human beings or angels? All of Eastern Orthodox basically hangs on this scripture so its important to know.
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>>21304765
the point is iconography leads to ignorant believers to take the position of worshipping the images.
and trying to say that knowledgeable fellows don't is also an assumption, in a very blurry, imaginary line you've drawn to say "it's just veneration!"
>>
>>21304768
>He does not say the reason it that it would seem that God is in the image.
Yeah he doesn't literally say it, but that is the most coherent meaning of the entire letter as a whole.
>He quotes the second commandment and says, because of these commands we do not use images, as it would debase our conception of God.
Again if you took this on the nose, he would be saying never make an image of anything. Clearly, that can't be a stance he holds. Us automatically adding that nuance is deriving coherent meaning from human language which is subtle by nature.
>Because you ignored the theological reasons that Eusebius gave to forbid images of Christ.
...such as?
>He also appeals to the second commandment to justify why it is forbidden. You, again, have completely ignored this.
I haven't ignored it, I mentioned it in my first post implicitly, this part is what I was talking about when I talked about not taking it literally.
Appreciate you granting the images thing, but I'd appreciate it if you address my greater argument with it too.
I don't think I'm ignoring anything theological "on the page", rather I disagree with your interpretation of what's on the page, and you are misconstruing this (I don't think purposefully) as "ignoring the theology".
Basically its a circular type argument.
1. What I think he meant is the theological argument.
2. My opponent has a different interpretation than mine.
3. Therefore he's ignoring "the theology".

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>>21304815
>Yeah he doesn't literally say it, but that is the most coherent meaning of the entire letter as a whole.
>Again if you took this on the nose, he would be saying never make an image of anything. Clearly, that can't be a stance he holds.
You're conflating the different texts. Origen's is a book, not a letter, and his remarks are contextual to religious usage. Only Epiphanius and Eusebius remark about images being problematic to display generally, due a to resemblance to paganism. I've been trying to keep them distinguished in my responses but perhaps not clearly enough.
>...such as?
See The paragraph here >>21304537 and the first paragraph here >>21304542
>I don't think I'm ignoring anything theological "on the page"
I think the problem, as I mentioned earlier, is the texts being conflated with one another. Origen is making a theological case, he notes how some pagan also disallow images for different reasons, and then explains why Christians do not allow them. He isn't speaking simply out of a concern that he appear pagan. Eusebius's letter gives a theological explanation of why an image of Christ cannot be allowed, based on Scripture and on Christ's divine characteristics, then makes a case about images being disallowed in general due to the appearance of paganism, which is a separate matter. Epiphanius follows the latter course. There is also a historical issue to be noted, which is that both Eusebius and Epiphanius are stated that these images are simply not allowed in Christian churches. This bears on the fact that there was no correct iconographic practice known to them at that time; the images were simply forbidden. This nullifies the idea that iconodule practices have an ancient pedigree.
>By that you mean to support the stance that no sacred image should ever be made?
Sorry, I was specifically talking about Origen. I failed to distinguish at that point myself.
>You're still ignoring my direct statement, I'd appreciate if you directly answered to it.
Do you think that when reverence is paid to God through an image, that that reverence is something less than worship? You are not worshiping the physical, but God through the icon. That is my understanding, though if I am wrong it does not change the patristic case.
>>
>>21304874
>You are not worshiping the physical, but God through the icon.
not worshiping the physical icon*
>>
>>21304874
>You're conflating the different texts. Origen's is a book, not a letter, and his remarks are contextual to religious usage.
I thought I was talking about Eusebius, my bad if mistaken.
>See The paragraph here >>21304537 and the first paragraph here >>21304542
I've clearly read these...what was the point of this response bro? Just to be snarky? You've been polite so far. Not trying to be passive aggressive, I guess I'd just prefer *direct*, as opposed to indirect, argumentation.
>Eusebius's letter gives a theological explanation of why an image of Christ cannot be allowed, based on Scripture and on Christ's divine characteristics
If that's what you've been speaking about this whole time, I believe I answered to it already when I said that no one actually thinks that God is in the image. Of course Christ's glory is not captured by an image - no one actually believes it is. This isn't really solid theological justification to disallow all images if that's what its being put forward as.
>which is that both Eusebius and Epiphanius are stated that these images are simply not allowed in Christian churches. This bears on the fact that there was no correct iconographic practice known to them at that time; the images were simply forbidden. This nullifies the idea that iconodule practices have an ancient pedigree.
I've also heard the complete opposite on the history of icons from others, and I'm not a student of history myself, moreso just doing logical analysis of arguments. Again, I don't feel like I have a solid opinion on this and I have no reason to believe you over the other guy, so to speak, although no reason for the reverse either.
>Do you think that when reverence is paid to God through an image, that that reverence is something less than worship?
Me personally? Yes, of course. To have a parallel case, if I revere God by saying the word "God" aloud, am I worshipping the word 'God'? No, I'm worshipping God through the words that I speak. God is not language anymore than He is images. So the opposite position simply can't stand up to logical scrutiny in my eyes.
However I still note that you hesitate to give a direct response to my statement, which is:
>Are they literally considered to be God, or to imbue God, or are they not?
I didn't respond to Origen clarifications to keep the message short, although I appreciate you making said clarifications. Anything you'd like me to provide thoughts or an argument on, just indicate to me directly and I will do so. I've enjoyed the conversation so far and appreciate your politeness.

How did you autists into e-readers? Doesn’t it bother you not having physical copies of all your books? I always think I want a Kindle but I can’t give up on the idea of needing to own all my books, feel the pages, and all that shit. What e-reader would you recommend to someone who’s never owned one before? Amazon has deals on them right now but I don’t know if I’d be more inclined to use a paperwhite vs. an Oasis or if there’s some other one I should try instead?
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>>21304598
>Doesn’t it bother you not having physical copies of all your books?
No, in fact I feel better than having physical copies that are subject to rot and degradation. All the e-books on my e-reader are backed up to a harddrive on my PC as well as a little thumbdrive. If I lose the e-reader I would be sad, but I still have the books that I can just transfer to a new device.

>I can’t give up on the idea of needing to own all my books, feel the pages, and all that shit.
I was the same way. Most, or nearly all, e-readers use an e-ink style that tries to mimic the look of a real book. It's not the same, but it's not a very hard transition, either. You also have the advantage of playing around with font styles, sizes, brightness, light/dark modes, on-board dictionaries, etc. Physical books do have the edge when it comes to skimming books and annotating them, though. More cumbersome to do with an e-book for sure.

>What e-reader would you recommend to someone who’s never owned one before?
Kobo Libra 2. I started with it and even came back to it again years later. It's a good, simple device. My only complaint is that the user interface for notes and annotations you make is sort of messy.

>>21304612
Fellow Kobochad
>>
>>21304598
>How did you autists into e-readers?
Because books in my country are expensive and the economy will become like Venezuela soon
>Doesn’t it bother you not having physical copies of all your books?
Yes, but I'm poor.
>>
>>21304732
>>21304612
What makes you guys like the Libra 2 over:
>Cheaper Kobos
>the more expensive one that comes with a pen for note taking?
The note taking feature seems like the only major advantage over physical books for me because I’m too much of an aspie to mark up my books with notes.
>>
>>21304774
>cheaper Kobos
Many of the cheaper ones are known for having dodgy battery life. I've picked up my Libra 2 after months of non-use and found it with a half charge.

>expensive one with a pen for note-taking
I didn't get this one at first because I didn't think I would need it. I still haven't tried it, because buying a whole new e-reader just for the pen doesn't feel worth it to me when I get by just fine with the one I already have. Now that I know the UI for annotations on the Libra 2 isn't the greatest, I probably would have gotten the one with the pen if I could go back in time and tell myself to choose differently. I feel like it would only be worth it if you're already the kind of person to write in a book's margins frequently.
>>
>>21304830
Thank you for all the help anon, I appreciate it

>What caused the Big Bang?

Nothing. Nothing caused it. Everything in the universe is based on cause and effect, but we have no reason to believe that cause and effect remains valid outside of the universe.
>>
>>21303942
Books?
>>
>>21303945
Philosophy?
>>
I wanted it to happen, so it did
>>
>>21303942
yes
>Everything in the universe is based on cause and effect
this is our human understanding of the world. cause and effect is a very accurate model, but I believe it's not the whole truth to it.
I believe humans make sense of the chaos that is the universe by inventing a multitude of abstract identities, and cause and effect is an explanation of the interplay between these (false) identities.

I also smoke too much hashish and spend too much time alone, thanks for reading my post
>>
>>21304426
Pleasure to meet Thee, My Lord

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I just finished it, anyone want to discuss. I thought it was great.
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>>21303369
he most certainly does, it's a classic midwit-flapping-through-his-thesaurus word
>>
>>21304170
You know it too right?
>>
>>21304170
It's a perfectly cromulent word.
>>
>>21294416
I also played around with the idea of Bobby being western man laid raw and bare and flawed, but I’m not sure yet.

Things I liked:
>diving kino
>dead father (my father is dead)
>the risk and tragedy of having the main character be in love with their sister
>the Ferris wheel of character conversations
>the unknown nature of being followed (Kafka-ish)

Things I’m not sure about:
>the Alicia italicized scenes (they started off rough and got smoother over time, I felt, but maybe I was getting the hang of them)
>the ending (of course we need the other book

Things I didn’t like:

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>>21304891
Lastly I’ll note that this book was very lonely. And there’s something poetic about living in this moment knowing a companion (Stellar Maris) is on the way. Especially considering the ending. Even if it was a publisher decision, it’s still deeply poetic to me.


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