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/lit/ is for the discussion of literature, specifically books (fiction & non-fiction), short stories, poetry, creative writing, etc. If you want to discuss history, religion, or the humanities, go to /his/. If you want to discuss politics, go to /pol/. Philosophical discussion can go on either /lit/ or /his/, but those discussions of philosophy that take place on /lit/ should be based around specific philosophical works to which posters can refer.

Check the wiki, the catalog, and the archive before asking for advice or recommendations, and please refrain from starting new threads for questions that can be answered by a search engine.

/lit/ is a slow board! Please take the time to read what others have written, and try to make thoughtful, well-written posts of your own. Bump replies are not necessary.

Looking for books online? Check here:
Guide to #bookz
https://www.geocities.ws/prissy_90/Media/Texts/BookzHelp19kb.htm
Bookzz
http://b-ok.cc/
http://libgen.rs/
Recommended Literature
http://4chanlit.wikia.com/wiki/Recommended_Reading

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSnraJOeOyM

Is this accurate? Are good writers supposed to know a bunch of random quotes from various poets and authors? I mean not memorizing them on purpose but just recalling them with rainman like accuracy after having read them.
>>
>>18226955
>knowing random quotes
>battle each other with them
>complete a quote by only knowing that it begons with "all men..."
who wrote this cringe pseudery?

Any progress on your novels?

Previous thread:>>18208879

For Prose:
>The Art of Fiction
>Story Genius: How to Use Brain Science to Go Beyond Outlining and Write a Riveting Novel (Before You Waste Three Years Writing 327 Pages That Go Nowhere)
>On Becoming A Novelist
>Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft
>How Fiction Works
>The Rhetoric of Fiction
>Steering the Craft
>On Writing, Borges

For Poetry:

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>>18226650
They told me the concept and subject matter is in and of itself uninteresting and cannot be made interesting, they told me to kill my darlings and move on to something else.
>How do you feel yourself
I thought I was being genuine and pouring a lot out on to the page. The fact that nobody cares shows there's nothing worthwhile inside me.
Writing power-fantasy isekai for Royal Road might be a better choice for me than trying for actual literature.
>>
>>18226926
>They told me the concept and subject matter is in and of itself uninteresting and cannot be made interesting
That's quite the statement. I can't even picture a concept that's inherently uninteresting aside of "bored young man meanders through life without purpose" shit. What is it? Maybe it's simply something totally out of their interest range?

Take 50 Shades, I wouldn't be interesting in some plain girl hooking up with a billionaire either, unless she's planning to scam or expose him, but people still love it. Maybe your readers just weren't the right audience?
>I thought I was being genuine and pouring a lot out on to the page.
That's pretty meaningless though. Do you actually enjoy reading it?
>>
>>18226926
>They told me the concept and subject matter is in and of itself uninteresting and cannot be made interesting
Fuck them. Any concept can be made into an interesting story, it's mostly down to execution.
>prose
>characters
>setting
are the most important things to consider, narrative and plot are important also but shouldn't overshadow your characters. Make it work anon. If you want a second opinion, maybe post an excerpt here. I can find positives in everything.
>>
>>18226958
>What is it? Maybe it's simply something totally out of their interest range?
It's more that it's something they've all been through. I had thought this would make it relatable rather than uninteresting but I was wrong, my entire target audience has just dissipated.
>Do you actually enjoy reading it?
Of course I do but it's mine, my opinion is not valid here.
>>18226959
>maybe post an excerpt here.
I can't, it's not in English.
>>
>>18226926
It's always possible that their assessment is inaccurate. The best way to learn your shortcomings is to put yourself out there and write for complete strangers looking to read, they don't have the benefit or hindrance of knowing you and will judge your work unbiased. If your work is truly bad, then that's something you have to accept as well.

I'll start, Houellebecq. Who else is there?
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>>18226737
That's the result of /lit/ indoctrination. People like this can't enjoy things unless it's validated by a group of fellow pseud virgins. The author must first be verified "based" in order for such a person to even consider reading him. And God forbid if such an author comes to be "refuted" later...
>>
>>18226749
came to comment on what he commented on.
truly the best
>>
>>18226754
>And God forbid if such an author comes to be "refuted" later...
Heh, and don't even get me started on when (((some))) authors are "refuted" RETROACTIVELY!
>>
>>18226536
He likes islam now. Wich means he has the perfect look on anything.
>>
>>18226956
He already liked it when he wrote Submission, people just didnt get the point of the book.

What do you think of him?
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>>
Looksmaxed Houellebecq
>>
Looks like he would stab you over the contents of your wallet as soon as you turned your back on him.
>>
>>18225086
he doesn't look very french
>>
jew. but based.
>>
>>18225067
Not incredibly original but a good talker. A bit full of himself and too privileged but not the worst.

It says a lot about french society that Zemmour is their Ben Shapiro.

Do you think 4chan and shitposter culture generally is a culturally significant event that will have far reaching effects as a result of the generation of young men it influence? Or is this just some random flash in the pan we’ll forget a decade from now if they shut it down?
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>>
>>18226343
>>18226501
Pedos out

>>18226451
Reddit is a much larger website with a much stronger community than 4chan.
>>
It isn't about websites anymore, but co-ordinated effort by groups to generate and push content on those platforms. If you are thinking in terms of "the cool funny website vs the gay lame website" you have a seriously outdated model that doesn't match reality.
What matters is private groups, small collectives working together. This doesn't have to be a super secret service, it can be on twitter, discord, reddit, FB chat. Basically any service that allows for private group chats so that an esoteric core can form to then push content on the exoteric parts of the web.
You can try this out for yourself, assuming you have 4 or 5 friends. Come up with some dumb idea and then orchestrate its introduction into the wider digital ecosystem. Chances it will not be very good, but there are people who are highly skilled at this, and it is a skillset being increasingly sort after by government and the private sector.

I would add that 4Chan is incredibly susceptible to these kinds of manipulations because of its pseudo-anonymity. On twitter if 20 accounts made 3 months ago, and mostly inactive up until the present, all started posting the same thing in reply to people, or dogpiling on one account with identical criticism, you can draw the conclusion fairly quickly as to what is happening. Although this is an example of people executing an operation crudely.
On 4chan you mostly have to rely on a sense of intuition honed from personal experience, and this makes it harder to articulate a case as convincing as you could on other websites. This also means it is easier to pass of an operation as organic. Paranoia is the flipside as people with the knowledge that operations like this happen, but lacking the information or experience to accurately identify them, start seeing it everywhere.

If anything this strange mixture of gullibility and hyper-vigilant paranoia is increasingly one of the defining traits of 4chan.
>>
>>18226252
>literally one twitter community is responsible for all of 4chan culture
I've been here since 2005. Twitter wasn't even a known thing among tech plate until later 2009
>>
>>18226896
You type like a fucking redditor
>>
>>18226961
Facebook tier response.

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Do y'all have friends or family or gfs irl that are into literature?
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>>
None at all. I'm routinely mocked for bitching about Dylan winning the Nobel because 'nobody actually knows or cares about it anyway'.
Speaking of, I mentioned this to my wife the other day and she argued in his favour just to piss me off. I said something alomg the lines of music not being literature due to the performance aspect etc. And she said 'so therefore playwrights cannot win it either then, as that dialogue is to be performed just as lyrics are. Hang on, didn't you say that Pinter guy won it, you like him don't you?' I had no response and felt like a failure.
>>
>>18226878
Why do you bitch about it when you know no one cares? It's like someone constantly talking about Crypto. It's hard to understand and no one cares about your gains if you constantly talk about it
>>
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>>18226551
>gfs
No, but I want one! I want oneeeeeee!!!
>>
>>18226942
They mention it to annoy me, I bitch about it to piss them off. My brother is really into cars and he talks about it specifically to annoy me. That's just the kind of relationship I have with my family, we find humour in irritating each other
>>
>>18226878
Ha, that's a pretty good argument to be fair. Sounds like she outsmarted you chief

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PROSE EDITION
>Who are our favorite wordsmiths? Provide examples of their work if you can.
>How purple do you like your prose to be?
>List at least one modern SFF book that you think has good prose.
>What are you currently reading?

Previous Threads:
>>18200057
>>18186898
>>18175146

Thread rules:
>No anime
>No manga/comic books
>Only books by western and European authors

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>>18226893
>The Simpsons
Oh what a surprise, not only an audiocuck but also an animetranny hating on a western cartoon
>>
>>18226900
Cartoons are anime.
>>
>>18226903
No.
>>
>>18226903
Akshually it's the other way around.
I blame Disney for all thischinese cartoon faggotry.
Or maybe the Japs, as usual, perverted everything good about the animated medium.
>>
>>18226912
Oh what a surprise. An animetranny bagging Western white Ubermensch.

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I started to get into Communism with things like The Jungle, but this book really set me straight.
>>
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>>18219973
>>
>>18223959
Kek
>>
Farewell to Autumn engraved in me belief that form is everything and so objective and subjective can't exist. This one had as big influence on me as firt trying psychedelics, I don't know if it was ever translated but its remarkable
>>
>>18217070
People don't know what you posted lmao

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>>18226387
Nah, americans are sociopaths
>>
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>>18224626
>I hope China destroys that degenerate society as soon as possible.
>>
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Should I create a personal goal of books to read in a certain number of months?
>>
>DA JOOZ
>BOOKS FOR THIS FEEL???
>>
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I dont like JRPG's but i cannot stop listening to the FFVI soundtrack, it's truly a masterpiece:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O-9U_QKhgA

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>Nietzsche, Jung, Dostoyevsky

Are these influences considered too 'casual' for someone who's supposed to be one of the most important intellectuals of the century(so far)? I mean he claims to be very well-read but aside from Dostoyevsky these are all guys you read in a 1st year English course.
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>>18225882
Academics have no credibility outside their narrow speciality.

He is pathetic proof of it.

Zizek, by contrast, is a hot mess of cocaine fuelled irony sex rant.
>>
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>>18225882
This guy is supposed to be one of the most important intellectuals of the century so far? Holy shit I hate modernity.
>>
>>18225887
'Painting is not made to decorate apartments. It's an offensive and defensive weapon against the enemy.(about Guernica).'
>>
>>18226774
Clapping was started by the anti peterson fags in the audience.


>why is he the most well known thinker
No one is making zizekwave
>>
>>18226950
Zizek had the advantage audience wise because his fans were the liberal elites while peterson's are the unemployed incels who couldn't afford to fly out there in addition to whatever the scalpers were charging.

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If you had to construct a 'Mount Rushmore' of four faces of thinkers, authors, and figures that have been most influential in shaping you, who would you pick?
Which 4 have been most significant to you as role models?
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>>
>>18224547
Dosto's religious attitudes are something I have tremendous respect for, but do not believe.
>>
Dosto, old Ted, chrollo lucilfer, Eric andre
>>
>>18224487
Gardner, Card, Waldun, Chuck
>>
>>18224487
Aristotle
Epicurus
Confucius
Mencius
>>
>>18224487
Alan Moore, Dostoevsky, Nietzsche and Shakespeare.

Are there any good new non-fiction books about the incel crisis, sexlessness crisis, fertility crisis, that sort of thing?
>>
>>18226962
sex? what's that?
>>
What this fails to mention that if they are having sex it is for JAV. No one in Japan has sex off camera.

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>One shot at life
>Grow up wanting to be a writer
Writing is a shit gig. Most writers are broke and/or off themselves. Why couldn't I have been an engineer, finance bro, or normie.
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>>
>>18226773
anon you wanted to be slapped when you typed this right
>>
>>18226202
You know, not everyone is engaged in the constant game of one-upmanship which characterizes contemporary society. You seem to be pretty invested in attributing to others traits and characteristics you don't really have all that much evidence for. Really, it seems like if anyone has an overabundance of pride, it's you.
>>
>>18226828
You seem butthurt, did I strike a nerve.

I've personally seen it play out before, one cried to me about having to work for minimum wage after finishing their masters.
>>
>>18226930
Just to confirm, you are categorically declining to engage any of my points in favor of a personal anecdote, right?
>>
>>18226952
Yes

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Good books about conspiracies?
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>>18217589
There sure are.
>>
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>>18217589
This is an academic look at state criminality. I just bought it today.
>>
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>Pic related
Here is a good video discussing Carroll Quigley:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kwZYrZDM20
>>
>>18220043
Underrated.
>>
>>18226954
what's with the symbol




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