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This board is dedicated to the discussion of history and the other humanities such as philosophy, religion, law, classical artwork, archeology, anthropology, ancient languages, etc. Please use /lit/ for discussions of literature. Threads should be about specific topics, and the creation of "general" threads is discouraged.

For the purpose of determining what is history, please do not start threads about events taking place less than 25 years ago. Historical discussions should be focused on past events, and not their contemporary consequences. Discussion of modern politics, current events, popular culture, or other non-historical topics should be posted elsewhere. General discussions about international culture should go on /int/.

/his/ is not /pol/, and Global Rule #3 is in effect. Do not try to treat this board as /pol/ with dates. Blatant racism and trolling will not be tolerated, and a high level of discourse is expected. History can be examined from many different conflicting viewpoints; please treat other posters with respect and address the content of their post instead of attacking their character.

When discussing history, please reference credible source material, and provide as much supporting information as possible in your posts.

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Why can't "Japanese" speakers read old Japanese text? They say they're an ancient, isolated country, that is 5000 years old.

What gives?
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>>12159552
>It seems that you can't read. I said before 19th century.
It seems you don't know history and can't google; the Heian period was between the 8th and 12th century.

>Nice self own.
He said he doubts that a Japanese speaker can't read text from the 19th century, not that he doubts the Japanese read texts from the Heian period.
I assume English is your second language?
>>
>>12159612
>He
Lol, stop samefagging, we know it's you.
>I assume English is your second language?
Stop projecting yourself.
>>
>>12159612
>It seems you don't know history and can't google; the Heian period was between the 8th and 12th century.

Ok? Where in that post did it claim otherwise?
>>
>>12159675
If you'd have paid attention you would have noticed the number of posters/unique IPs went up when I posted.

>Stop projecting yourself.
I think you mean, "Stop projecting." Thank you for answering, albeit indirectly.
Tell me, where you from? China? Korea?
>>
>>12159680
You implied the Heian era wasn't before the 19th century.
>It seems that you can't read. I said before 19th century.
In case you're bad at math as well; the 8th and 12th centuries come before the 19th century.

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Compared to the Middle East and Central Asia, there was remarkably little "map painting", even the largest wars like the Hundred Years War and Italian Wars saw relatively little conquest. Even the biggest warrior-king chads like Richard the Lionheart and Henry V didn't conquer much. Was the feudal system that deeply entrenched and stable? Or was the presence of the Church a factor that restrained wannabe conquerors? Or did they rely more on strategic marriages and dynasticism to become more powerful?
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>>12158695
Pleb opinion
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>>12159606
The Middle Ages start in 476 AD, and you? You're a retard
>>
>>12159659
>The Middle Ages start in 476 AD
Source?
>>
>>12159670
Something that everyone who's not retarded and has finished elementary school learns:


In the history of Europe, the Middle Ages or medieval period lasted approximately from the 5th to the late 15th centuries, similarly to the Post-classical period of global history. It began with the fall of the Western Roman Empire and transitioned into the Renaissance and the Age of Discovery.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages


Middle Ages, the period in European history from the collapse of Roman civilization in the 5th century CE to the period of the Renaissance (variously interpreted as beginning in the 13th, 14th, or 15th century, depending on the region of Europe and other factors).

https://www.britannica.com/event/Middle-Ages
>>
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>>12159659
Have you never heard of the term 'Late Antiquity' before?

Why were Africans so primitive?
I will read about African history and find out about interesting civilizations. Like the Yoruba with Ile Ife and Oyo. They made some nice sculptures and had cities…. And I think "finally, an African people that aren’t backward". But then I look at pictures of their "houses" and it’s pathetic. They literally lived in mud huts.
It’s like everytime I find an African tribe that had something interesting going on for itself, EVERYTHING ELSE about them is primitive and ass backward
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>>12158007
>Because he actually cites good sources (or any for that matter) and provides germane, consistent explanations. Unlike (you)
He literally ignored the two paragraphs of information debunking how Ethio-sabeans inventing civilization in the highlands and went on to give his opinion.
>>
>>12146431

It's because you're evaluating their civilization from a ethnocentric position.

What you find sophisticated doesn't make it objectively sophisticated retard. Feel bad.
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>>12159094
why so? Because it's what you're used to seeing?
>>
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>>12159649
Cultural relativist post-modernist at it again

A crude mud hut is primitive, there is nothing "ethnocentric" or "subjective" about that. It's primitive.
>>
>>12146431
>were

>be a Jew
>say slavery is profitable
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>>12159518
Name them, the only group i've ever seen arguing to abolish the NHS were a tiny offshoot of an American libertarian group.
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>>12159521
It's kind of hard to have conservative views in europe when the system is curated for you not to have them
>>
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>>12159508
Wrong
https://www.daily-journal.com/opinion/columnists/national/thomas-sowell-what-the-war-on-poverty-was-supposed-to-do/article_3af6eba6-7063-5699-ac32-ee7602f24a95.html
Teenage pregnancy had been going down for years. So had venereal disease. Rates of infection for syphilis in 1960 was half of what it had been in 1950. There were similar trends in crime. The total number of murders in the United States in 1960 was lower than in 1950, 1940 or 1930 — even though the population was growing and two new states had been added. The murder rate, in proportion to population, in 1960 was half of what it had been in 1934.

Every one of these beneficial trends sharply reversed after liberal notions gained ascendancy during in the 1960s. By 1974, the murder rate had doubled. Even liberal icon Sargent Shriver, head of the agency directing the "war on poverty," admitted that "venereal disease has skyrocketed" even though "we have had more clinics, more pills and more sex education than ever in history."
Its mission was not simply to prove that spending money on the poor led to some economic benefits to the poor. Nobody ever doubted that. How could they?

What the war on poverty was intended to end was mass dependency on government. President Kennedy said, "We must find ways of returning far more of our dependent people to independence."

The same theme was repeated endlessly by President Johnson. The purpose of the "war on poverty," he said, was to make "taxpayers out of taxeaters." Its slogan was "Give a hand up, not a handout." When Lyndon Johnson signed the landmark legislation into law, he declared: "The days of the dole in our country are numbered."
he proportion of people whose earnings put them below the poverty level — without counting government benefits — declined by about one-third from 1950 to 1965.

All this was happening before the "war on poverty" went into effect — and all these trends reversed after it went into effect.
>>
>>12159075
Slavery was irrelevant during WWII
>>
>>12159645
>the baby boom ends
>crime rates skyrocket
>STDs skyrocket
>drug use skyrockets
.unemployment skyrockets
>all at the end of bust caused by government over-stimulation of the economy
>a-actually recovery happened because of the war on poverty
Shut you stupid dumb nigger ass up you goddamn retarded fuck. Just because you watched a black man's video on youtube does not mean you understand economics

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What is the origin of the Japanese language? How did it evolve independently? Why is it still a mystery where it came from?
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>>12159565
People have some problems with this study. Especially when it comes to Yayoi genetics who appear to be too Siberian. It's somewhat unlikely that 60%+ of Japanese ancestry came with Chinese migrants only during the Kofun period.
>>
>>12159578
Take your meds and stop sperging at everyone that makes fun of bugmen.
>>
>>12159566
>>12159578
>>12159586
Do you think people will ignore that you're a lunatic because you accuse others of needing medication? It's okay that this asian girl rejected you in college. No need to take out your frustration on this board.
>>
>>12159598
>using the name of the territory between Aegean Sea and Indian subcontinent as a racial category for Gooks
Mutt moment again.
>gook rejected you in college
Lots of projecting coming from the yellow fever incel, as always. The lunatic here is you because you put Gooks on a pedestal. They're ugly as shit and the easiest to fuck. That's why so many old males and incels such as yourself go for them. You know they're the ugliest and that's why you cope by spamming photoshopped pics of yellow roasting with plastic and excessive amounts of make-up on every board. Each time you see someone post a normal photo of a Gook in their natural habitats, it gives you a mental breakdown because you can't handle reality.
>>
>>12159573
Why do you have such a complex towards "gooks"? Are you upset those "Asians" have become more relevant than you so that your shitskin region is now called "Middle East"?

The life of a laborer during the Industrial Revolution was a harsh one. After an accident in 1838 at a coal mine near Barnsley left 26 child workers dead, Queen Victoria ordered an inquest. Investigators found appalling conditions--children as young as 5 were toiling in Britain's coal mines. Pregnant women, sometimes up to the final hour before giving birth, worked. The Mines & Collieries Act of 1842 finally forbade females and boys younger than 10 from working in mines.

Yet it seems what truly influenced the law wasn't the working conditions per se but Victorian prudery. For what truly scandalized England was the discovery that in some mines women worked topless while men worked complely nude. This was due to the sweltering heat in the mines as well as wanting to avoid having clothing snag on sharp protruding rocks. Although female coal miners would be covered from the waist down at least, they also wore pants instead of skirts which was apparently also considered unacceptable. The report into the conditions in mines stated that these women would be completely unsuited for marriage after working in such conditions. Their pants often became torn in the process of working, "thereby exposing all" to the eyes of their male co-workers. "The chain passing high up between the legs of two girls, had worn large holes in their trousers. Any sight more disgustingly indecent or revolting can scarcely be imagined than these girls at work. No brothel can beat it." It is significant that upper class Victorians seem to have been far more appalled at the nudity of coal miners than the actual physical dangers of the job.
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>>12158984
>>
>>12158531
Yes. Of course wage slavery did not exist before the Industrial Revolution. Wage slavery is the defining feature of the IR.
>>
>>12158088
>>12158097
>the work turns women into "coarsened" sluts and bad mothers
they were right.
>and thats a GOOD thing lol
no, it isnt.
>but they were starving!
quite literally the only defendable position. the rest is cope and lies.
>>
>>12158845
>>12158525
Can fit in tight spaces better than men and don't have to be paid as much.
>>
trust me, in a 35 degree mine shaft when you're drenched in sweat you will not even think about lewding your topless 15 year old co-worker

It’s impossible for the universe to exist without a higher power of some kind. It’s simple cause and effect. If there is no god, then the universe was at some point it a state of complete nothingness. If that’s how it was before, then that’s how it would be now because there is nothing to cause the universe to start existing.
>but who created god?
An omnipotent god wouldn’t need to follow this rule. Following it would mean that the god is limited in some way and therefore not omnipotent. An all-powerful force that transcends logic is the only thing that can break the never ending chain of causes and effects and act as the first cause.
>but muh quantum fluctuations
Quantum fluctuations have a cause. Also, a vacuum isn’t nothing. It exists inside the universe with all the laws of physics applying and it also has energy in it which means that it isn’t “nothing” in the same sense as the “nothing” which was there before everything existed.
>[insert Christianity-related strawman]
I’m not arguing for the Christian God specifically, just a god in general. This has nothing to do with specific religions.
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>>12159589
If that's what you reduce the meaning of God then fine, it's just semantics.
Now, how does that definition relate to your belief in a particular God with more properties than simply being the source of being? What's the linkage here?
>>
>>12159610
>Then you conflate being with its source. You're free to do that, but lowering the resolution of your semantic tools doesn't answer the ontological question.
Why is this an issue for the universe but not for god?
>>
>>12159610
No if the universe is not created
>>
>>12159620
>it's just semantics.
Definitions tend to be semantic, sure. But it's not a semantic argument.
>particular God
You try to commune with him yourself or via an institution you trust. I trust Christianity, never seen a theologically more developed religion.
>>12159624
We're not lowering any resolution.
>>12159652
All things we know of have a source. 'Created' is just a term to describe conditioned existence.
>>
>>12159436
>not if you reject logical conclusions
The logical conclusion is that an unthinking universe with unthinking laws doesn't need anthropocentric reasoning to work, evidence always trends towards that and never the opposite.
We can argue about what consciousness entails but human consciousness is a chaotic system that inherently relies on a specific set of entropic systems like complex molecules, the universe always trends towards that entropic survival bias which means the logical conclusion that if you go in the opposite way you'll get the opposite of chaos, perfect order, like a singularity.
The universe got more complex over time and it always trended towards that, the logical conclusion is that there's no reason to believe an entropic entity would give rise to a singularity.

Was there ever a colony that was just okay with being colonized and had a good relationship with their colonizer? Obviously not settler ones
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>>12159158
Moroccans genuinely believe they are french and not african.
>>
>>12159137
iirc easter islands king negotiated with chile to be under them for protection from slave traders
>>
>>12159158

berbers from Cyrenaica during the VIth century BC :

>"Finally, as the Absytians were well disposed towards the newcomers, it was not necessary to undertake heavy and costly fortification work. The Absysts even helped the Greeks to settle and marriages took place between them and Berber women, which allowed to reinforce even more the bonds between the two populations"
>>
>>12159137
History would be so much more kino if this is what Earth looked like
>>
>>12159137
Puerto Rico, seeing as all the various statehood vs independence plebiscites they have all either have serious flaws or result in "stay a colony"

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>Alexander was just lucky to defeat persia
>He was handed the best army in the world!
>He's a spoiled brat
Why do people say this when the Balkan campaign exist? He's Literally a young genuis not just a "hahahaha long stick goes stab!" guy.
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>>12158399
Yeah.. stroke of luck against Thebes, the most powerful Greek city state at the time
Stroke of luck against the Scythians
Stroke of luck against the Geti/Dacians
Stroke of luck against Illyrians
Stroke of luck in at least three pitched battle against the Persian army
Stroke of luck against Tyre

God, you're retarded
>>
>>12158332
Because success breeds jealousy in lesser men who will be forgotten within a decade after their death
>>
>>12159488
Do not forget the sieges of mountain fortresses like Aous
>>
>>12159657
And the uxians
>>
>>12159651
Alexander isn't going to come back to life and fuck you bro, hop off his dick

The "Red Summer" of 1919 was marred by deadly waves of racial violence across America. Chicago was ripped apart by a week of rioting July 27-August 3 when tensions between blacks and Irish in the city erupted. By the standards of the time, the Windy City was fairly progressive on racial accommodations--public facilities were not segregated and blacks served in the police department. But WWI had brought many thousands of blacks up from the South looking for wartime work and the mushrooming black population in Chicago caused tensions.

On July 27, a black teenager accidentally wandered into the white part of an informally segregated beach along Lake Michigan. Some whites threw rocks at him and he drowned. A black cop attempted to arrest the rock-throwers which caused further hostility. Violence escalated and led to several days of rioting in black neighborhoods, assaults on residents, and homes and businesses being torched. The Irish also tried to incite various European immigrant communities into joining them in their anti-black jihad, in one case by painting their faces black and throwing rocks at their homes. Most of these attempts were not met with success. Some whites felt sympathy towards the black community and tried to defend them from the rioters.

After a week, 6k National Guard troops arrived to restore order and the violence died down. Illinois Governor Frank Lowden, in an investigation into the riot, suggested Chicago might draw a racial code of etiquette and segregate public accommodations more to keep the races apart and prevent future outbreaks of violence. Nobody was charged in any of the violence, which left 38 mostly blacks dead including one police officer, and 537 injured.
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>>12157713
>Governor Lowden also suggested the source of the trouble was labor rather than strictly racial tensions, as many blacks had taken over industrial jobs while men were serving in the war and were willing to work for lower, non-union wages in addition to being used by companies as strikebreakers. A committee formed in 22 of twelve persons, six white and six black, concluded that the ultimate cause of the riots were returning white soldiers infuriated that blacks were occupying their job and in some cases residence while they had been in Europe.

>President Woodrow Wilson issued a statement declaring that white rioters had started the race riots in Chicago and Washington DC that summer, although he did not reverse his earlier roll-back of integrating the Federal government.

>In 2021, a grave marker was erected in Lincoln Cemetery at the previously unmarked grave of Eugene Williams, the unfortunate black youth drowned on the beach, whose death touched off the days of rioting.
Also not my problem.
>>
>>12158338
Dial 8
>>
>>12157912
Irish people were never called white niggers and any animosity for them was many other reasons than them being seen on pat with niggers which they weren't. Tyrone is the name of a county in Ireland where a lot of slave owners or their ancestors came from and probably named their slaves after the place.
>>
>>12158394
St. Louis was set to become the Midwestern crown jewel but due to rampant corruption caused by robber barons business went to Chicago instead. This turned it into a little New York in the middle of nowhere that real scummy fucks flocked to. Lots of people looking for work and lots of radicals and crazies too. Lots of terrorism with bombs and such too. It was already kind of Socialist but it got real bad at the turn of the century. That's when negroes got their footing and blasting the south with fearmongering propaganda to get blacks to flock to Chicago for a voting base. Within just a few years the city's population doubled with blacks and all sort of dysgenics from Europe. By the end of WWII the city was already dead, collapsed under corruption from crime and the working base fleeing the city
>>
>>12157713
big deal, that trashed house would be a normal sight in any black 'hood in this century and whites can't be blamed for it this time around

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>Gives Austria a blank check to invade Serbia, because Serbia won't let Austrian police have jurisdiction in Serbia because of an assassination in Bosnia (tantamount to losing sovereignty)
>Serbia doesn't even flat out refuse, ask for Hague mediation
>Austria declares war on Serbia
>Germany Declares war on Russia
>Germany Declares war on France
>Germany Invades Luxembourg
>Germany Invades Belgium, bringing Britain into the war
>Germany rampages through Belgium, Northern France and Russia
>Germany sponsors communists in Russia
>Impose draconian terms on Russia
>Russia loses almost all its European territory, industry and population
>Germany imposes severe reparation payments onto Russia, ones worse than Germany will receive itself
>Create puppet states out of former Russian land under the guise of national liberation
>Begins unrestricted submarine warfare on America
>America declares war on Germany

Comment too long. Click here to view the full text.
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>>12159232
I reject this premise of the balance of power and believe it could have been different if Germany diplomacy was better. If Germany contained itself to be the premier European power and had no colonial aspirations, as Bismarck intended, then through skillful diplomacy Germany could have exploited colonial rivalry of Britain and France as was seen at the Fashoda incident. They needed to stay out of bullshit like the Moroccan crisis where they stood to gain nothing. The Entente only happened because of Germany.
1. Don't build the high seas fleet
2. Don't embark on pointless colonial expeditions
3. Exploit France and Britain's colonial and historical embity
4. Fuck the Kaiser off because he's a retard who doesn't understand diplomacy and routinely insults everyone in the room
5. Aggressively pursue an alliance with Britain, promising not to build up your navy and not encroaching on their colonies in exchange for their tacit support over France and Russia.

The other thing is Russia was Britain's foremost opponent from the end of the Napoleonic Wars to 1870. There was no love lost there.
>>
>>12159363
>Britains intention was to dominate Europe
??? Their policy was "Splendid Isolationism" ie stating the fuck away from European affairs because it didn't concern them. It's why they didn't intervene in Prussia's War with Denmark, Austria and Germany and the multiple Ottoman shitfights in the Balkans. The only reason they got involved in Crimea was because they were concerned about Russia encroaching on India.
>>
>>12155417
Could have been a good post but it devolved too quickly into hyperbole and propaganda
>>
besides the obvious obsessesion with Germany, why do people act like starting wars of aggression is so evil and extraordinary in history? yeah Germany did start WW1, but other great powers started wars all the time too, do you seriously think, they got ahold of their empires by being nice? fucking hypocritical retards
>>
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>Germany loses WW1
>Britain loses Ireland, France loses any will to fight any war in any capacity in any amount, Russia loses 200 years of progress
>Germany loses WW2
>Britain loses the rest of the empire and all its colonys are now owned by America, France will forever be mocked for being surrender monkeys and Russia loses its empire becoming poorer then Italy
>meanwhile Germany dominates europe and makes everyone be indebted to them

Why didn't East/Southeast Asians colonize Australia?
>>
>>12158522
Literally for what reason? Its far away from the main trade routes of the world and no grorious people with any riches live there.
>>
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Why would anyone want to colonize that forsaken place? The Austronesians avoided it at all cost and would rather settle on remote Pacific islands instead
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>>12158522
They‘re doing it now
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>>12158583
/thread
>>
>>12158522
All the good land is on the complete opposite side of the continent from Asia. Most of the north/northwest coast of the continent is a hot and humid inhospitable hellscape.

Darwin, for example, is the capital of the Northern Territory and is only 150 years old yet during its short existence it has been destroyed and rebuilt 4 times.
>cyclone in 1897
>cyclone in 1937
>flattened by Japanese bombing in WW2
>yet another cyclone in 1974

The whole region is somewhat similar to Florida, where the awful weather (constantly hot with 150% humidity) rendered it completely unlivable until the invention and popularisation of the air conditioner.

All the good bits of Australia are as far away from the rest of the world as it is possible to get. Only the bongs were insane enough to go all the way out there, find it, and think it'd be a good place to start dumping convicts.

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>>12158480
Renaissance memes. Every modern inaccuracy about the ancients comes from retarded Renaissance memes + victorians larping as researchers while making shit up.
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>>12158480
Part of it is probably because that's how the Roman Army looked in the time of Jesus which is the period of the empire best-known to modern people
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>>12158385
>what was the most artstyle civilization
this is how you sound, stupid.
>>
>>12158389

England but improved
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>>12158415
>>12158480
the worst imo is every roman soldier looking exactly all the same to eachother with a perfectly shiny armor and equipment.
Something like that could have been possible probably only after industrialization

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Communism is impossible to achieve, because revolution requires a vanguard party, but a vanguard party will inevitably become despotic and seize the means of production.
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>>12157558
Human nature. People seek to dominate others. Those who actively seek power are even more domineering than average. Once they achieve power, they begin to wield it as much as possible. It's pretty much built into animals, and humans are animals, too.
>>
>>12158063
>If Lenin was leftist, why did he allow privately owned businesses in NEP?
Because his original communist program was a failure. These revolutionaries didn't know what the hell they were doing. They were great at maneuvering themselves into positions of absolute political power but hopeless at actually running a country. Mao was the same way. Being good at politics is no guarantee of being good at business or economics.
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>>12159642
It's almost like communism is a completely fabricated movement with no basis in reality
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>>12159647
It was invented by a secular jew who spent his entire life in a library reading and writing. He had little experience of the real world.
>>
>>12159614
I don't want to feel a man's love. Keep that stuff for yourself and stop acting posting like you're Anne of Green Gables please. It's kind of disgusting.




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