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/lit/ is for the discussion of literature, specifically books (fiction & non-fiction), short stories, poetry, creative writing, etc. If you want to discuss history, religion, or the humanities, go to /his/. If you want to discuss politics, go to /pol/. Philosophical discussion can go on either /lit/ or /his/, but those discussions of philosophy that take place on /lit/ should be based around specific philosophical works to which posters can refer.

Check the wiki, the catalog, and the archive before asking for advice or recommendations, and please refrain from starting new threads for questions that can be answered by a search engine.

/lit/ is a slow board! Please take the time to read what others have written, and try to make thoughtful, well-written posts of your own. Bump replies are not necessary.

Looking for books online? Check here:
Guide to #bookz
https://www.geocities.ws/prissy_90/Media/Texts/BookzHelp19kb.htm
Bookzz
http://b-ok.cc/
http://libgen.rs/
Recommended Literature
http://4chanlit.wikia.com/wiki/Recommended_Reading
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Are you incapable of making decisions without the guidance of anonymous internet strangers? Open this thread for some recommendations.

A Brief Reflection - March 15th 2024 - F.N.

I have just finished the book of madness known as Blood Meridian, and I wanted to gather my thoughts to discuss it. Spoilers follow

I did not find the prose difficult to follow, and it was strikingly beautiful in most parts. I have a good connection with the american west from my grandfather, and it reminded me of stories he would tell me. The violence was shocking at times, I was most affected by the smashing of the babies heads, the scouts disembowled and hung in the tree, and Glanton’s death. However I found some other critics really over exaggerated the nature of the violence. There was no glory in it, just senseless murder. I found this most represented in the last chapter when the Kid is reminded of his past through his necklace of ears.

There is a great feeling of emptiness throughout the book. The daunting expanses of desert coincide with the pointlessness of everything that occurs. The book follows a very specific formula of the gang meeting another party, and then violence occurring, up until they take over the ferry at Yuma. Here, a break occurs in the formula however it ends with the gang being destroyed and everything being for naught. Tobin is lost to the desert, the Kid is arrested, Toadvine and Brown are dead. Literally everything that happened to the Kid after he joined the gang is now pointless. McCarthy does such a good job of using that to make us feel the utter pointlessness of what we have just read, and the hopelessness that follows.

Obviously, the standout is not the pervasive emptiness or the violence. It’s the judge. His features, his stature, his dialogue. If I was to describe the judge, I could create a chart, where on one end the judge sits, on the the other Captain Ahab sits, and in the middle of them Heathcliff resides. It is terrifying how much control the judge has over himself and others, and the ending was just purely unsettling.

The final question I am left with is this: What was the point? Was there a point? I don’t think I was filtered by it, I think I am just missing something. The ending is still settling in and I think I need to read the last chapter again. I would love to hear what you all think about the book and if you could guide me to a better understanding. I will think about what I’ve read more and I would like to write further on this book later.
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>>23186766
I felt like the judge kind of spells out the the point and the pointlessness of it all when he illustrates war as ideology-- "the game and the rules and the players" themselves are wagered, are "the point" and are risked and destroyed in war, and so even though it pans out, at least materially, nothing for the Kid when he becomes the man, the point of it all was that he played the ultimate game with the ultimate wager the whole time-- everything, including its destruction, was the point, and the kid won, and was rewarded with having to carry those experiences with him for the rest of his life-- the ear scapular-- which really is a "scapular" in a Catholic sense-- is only a reminder, a sort of sacramental, of his real baptism in war
He played and won the ultimate game and what happened to the kid is what winning looks like-- he's the only real dancer by the end, etc.
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>>23187728
He bought their clothes fair and square : )
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>>23186955
the judge literally did nothing wrong (to the kid anyway) until Tobin starts to turn him against him
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>>23186966
>>23187741
its pretty standard in a lot of scientific and legal writing to do chapter outlines like this
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>>23194231
what, have you never realized, and regretted, that you were late to something?

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Cual es tu novela latinoamericana favorita y por que es Pedro Paramo?
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>>23196318
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Hace un par de días terminé Los Detectives Salvajes. La disfruté mucho, pero creo que fue un placer sensorial más que intelectual. No sabía explicar en profundidad el qué del libro ni su por qué.
>>
>board has spics in such numbers that a totally spanish-language thread has gone uninterrupted for 20+ posts
feels bad man
>>
Todos los libros de Mario vargas Llosa son increíbles. Sin alguna duda es mi escritor preferido. Que pena que aquí en Canadá el solo escritor conocido de Latin American es Gabriel Garcia Marquez (me encanta memorias de mis putas tristes)

He leído un poco de Héctor abad y Mario Mendoza y me gustan también.
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>>23197085
stay mad monolingual cuck

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Who are the biggest badasses in literature?
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Funes el memorioso.
Noboru Wataya in the real world and Toru Okada in the dry well world.
>>
Probably Valjean
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>>23196200
impossible, Hugo was a faggot
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>>23196215
>faggot
>expert in badass manly men with veiny man arms, rock-hard convictions and a penetrating glare
Checks out

In fact I would not trust heterosexual men to write the biggest badass, the same way it would be impossible for homosexual men to rwite the best girl
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>>23194099
Bastard!! is the better dark fantasy manga.
Dark Schneider is more badass than Guts and Griffith combined

Are there any decent introductions to Christian mysticism and the weirder parts of Christianity that isn't just the Bible?
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>>23195400
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>>23195400
>ancient
Pseudo-Dionysius
Philokalia
>medieval
Gregory Palamas
Meister Eckhart
Henrich Seuse
Cloud of Unknowing
>modern
John of the Cross
Valentin Tomberg
>>
>>23195400
the philokalia actually has detailed instructions on their breathing technique that lets you make contact with the other side
the cloud of unknowing
john of the cross
the diary of saint maria faustina might not be exactly what you're looking but maybe you'll like it
meditations on the tarot
christian mysticism by bernard mcginn is a great collection
also the ladder of divine ascent
the works of louis de montfort
>>
>>23195400
Theosophia by Arthur Versluis is the best introductory book
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>>23195400
I cannot take Christianity seriously because they either believe that a man physically rose from the dead and performed miracles indistinguishable from magic a long time ago, which is insane, or they believe that it's "symbols all the way down, man" like that faggot Jonathan Pageau, where apparently genesis 1 perfectly describes the human condition, except, you know, any non western/abrahamic culture for some reason, which is equally insane.
I'm moving to the Indian tradition before I lose my mind out of sheer anger towards the fucking DENIAL of these Christian idiots regarding how (self) limited their minds are, out of a gullible craving for some kind of ease of mind, aka "submitting your will to reach peace." Islam is similar and that information is literally in its name. I'm so done with this.
Hinduism is to Christianity what Lisp is to assembly language. Nietzsche was absolutely spot-on in that respect. Fuck it, I'm DONE.

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>met with Zwingli to discuss their theological differences
>ended up shouting THIS IS MY BODY THIS IS MY BODY
Why was he so autistic?
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>>23197053
If you think my argument was that practicing Protestants are more virtuous than practicing Catholics than you lack basic reading comprehension. In Sweden it's perfectly common for the average atheist to still identify with the Protestant church. You're simply speaking out of your ass about Catholicism being more integrated into societies. Such insignificant points, and you think they're excuses for your pettiness.

>>23197054
And I'm pointing out an undeniable fact as well, you dolt. The relative lack of atheism in Catholic countries is utterly insignificant. To point it out, as if it were A WIN, that vulgarises religion. Everywhere you look the Christian faith is dying and being oppressed, virtually every mainstream church in the West is corrupted at the highest levels, and you claim your particular sect is superior. I tell you, your sect does not look superior today. In any significant evaluation of culture and history, it cannot be said that Catholics stand superior (no matter the long dead architectural traditions!), and even less so today.

>>23197058
More readily associated, by who? YOU. I don't care what pig brains like yourself associate with the beauty revealed to the world by Protestantism.
>>
>>23197073
>To point it out, as if it were A WIN, that vulgarises religion.
Again, atheism is more readily associated with Protestantism given the fact that all former Protestant strongholds are now atheist (and were the first to turn atheist). Such a phenomenon is significant irrespective of your, quite frankly, desperate attempts to cover for it. Asking people to ignore it, or to simply regard the issue as being the same for Catholics, is obscene.
>pig brains
Your profoundly unchristian and unprovoked manner of discourse only reinforces the fact that you have no defence.
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>>23196979
So I'm not German actually because I come from a catholic family?
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>>23197073
>You're simply speaking out of your ass about Catholicism being more integrated into societies.
No it's pretty obviously correlated with the theological underpinnings of Protestantism or at the very least how those underpinnings played out in practice. Read pic related.

Evangelicalism is outpacing mainline Protestantism because it has more of this sense of community. In Brazil it's outpacing the Catholic majority by a considerable margin at the moment fwiw.
>>
>>23197084
And, again, I should care what you think is associated with what? You think associations is a rock solid argument, despite the COLD, HARD FACTS of the matter? Look at modern religion on the whole, and tell me your wins are anything other than relative. If you want to speak of desperate arguments, only children resort to justifications like that.

Righteous anger is an entirely Christian trait, and if you insist on blaspheming religion then you tolerate being insulted. Your entire anti-Protestant discourse is already on the level of an insult. Derived from no true respect for culture or faith. Even if you would like to pretend it is any more intelligent than Tradcath LARPing. Have you even asked yourself if, perhaps, specific Christian sects are not the singular cause for the greater or lesser atheism of particular countries?

>>23197089
I'm not reading your Catholic propaganda, and I don't care for your prosaic explanations for religious growth. The continual decline of Christianity is a testament to the real sources of the religion, being as it is that real faith is declining, and which cannot be found in an Evangelical megachurch, and should not be sacrificed to the practices of the latter. Throughout history, the Protestant faith was no inhibitor to communal religion. If it was like that throughout most of its history, then it can just as easily be like that again: if the essential thing is got, that is, FAITH, and not a suburban American sense of community.

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>Blessed are the strong, for they shall possess the earth – cursed are the weak, for they shall inherit the yoke! Blessed are the victorious, for victory is the basis of right – cursed are the vanquished, for they shall be vassals forever!
I don't think these guys read Anton Lavey.
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>>23196665
you offered your blood while explicitly rejecting the holy spirit?
>>
>>23196661
That's a lot of LARP for one place to handle at the same time, I don't think that would be a good idea
>>
>>23196540
JoS, O9A and all other "racial mysticism"-focused groups glow so fucking hard
>>
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>>23196505
Lmfao
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>>23196487
>your entire identity is a frail negative of someone else's identity
Kek! Imagine...

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Which Pynchon should I start with?
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>>23197094
The one that clicked with me first was Mason and Dixon. I actually tried Crying Of Lot 49 first but didn't find it impressive.

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Starsprent isn't a word, Cormac
>>
frogthread is though.
example sentence: I do not like frogthreads
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>>23195797
based yet cringe
>>
Didn't ask
>>
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>>23195786
"Sprent" is an old word meaning, among other things, "sprinkled". So "starsprent" is just a composite word, meaning "spar-sprinkled".

You don't mind "Star-Spangled Banner", do you? It's not that far from that.

I quite like it. It sounds nice.

(Also, Fact Frog is a fine fellow, but he doesn't need to be ten thousand pixels across and ten thousand kilobytes.)

>My favorite book is The Prince by Machiavelli

What kind of person do you imagine?
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>>23196819
Yuppie who desperately wants to be an influential politician or business executive but is probably assistant manager at a Target or some shit.
>>
>>23196819
Someone rather boring.
It is an interesting book but I can't imagine it being anyone's favorite.
>>
>>23196819
>What kind of person do you imagine?
Cesare Borgia.
>>
>>23196819
Someone who also reads and values Think and Grow Rich, How to Win Friends and Influence People, 48 Laws of Power, and so forth, who works in Marketing, Politics, or Business, and is an xSTP, ENFJ, or ESFJ.
>>
>>23196819
A good person

previous >>23191707
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Why don't Americans just make their own TikTok and outdo the Chinese with a superior product in accordance with free market principles?
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>>23197075
Imagine a tiktok 2.0 like the clone they made of twitter
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>>23197075
in today's episode of inside mark zuckerberg head...
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>>23197075
more like NigNog
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This is what I've read so far this year

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Should I read this or Neuromancer for some good old cyberpunkino?
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>>23196811
>Reading Neuromancer I couldn't shake off the this-is-what-a-16-years-old-thinks-it's-cool-but-the-author-must-be-like-40 feel the book gave me.

I think it's because that style of writing was cool 40 something years ago though
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>>23195803
Cyberpunk, as an aesthetic, goes back further that. See, the artwork of Moebius.
Cyberpunk is basically about information technology and urban cultural decline. Arguably, it's not just computers, but artificial minds and intelligences. PKD incorporates this heavily into his other book, Ubik. Everyday appliances are personified as homeostatic entities. Technology is almost always proliferated in these settings, because they're about the mundane circumstances of culture as high-winded sci fi.

If you ever happen to read old pulp stories, it's clear many ideas solidified by novelists and film-makers were originated there. Even though they precede the information revolution and the birth of computers, they're quite imaginative, though not strong as literature, and maybe they prefigure a lot of modern cyberpunk, "space operas," and other fantasy works. A lot of writers got started in these evolving pulps. Arthur C Clarke, Bradbury, PKD. Unfortunately, many pulp authors will remain obscure, despite some obvious superiority in creativity.
I'd recommend reading some old pulps for that grungy low-fi science fiction feeling. Though not in the public domain, they are often in open archives.
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>>23196745
Bro, some of the biggest people involved in shaping the Cyberpunk genre literally were Marxists, or at least sympathetic. You can't pretend that's not a factor of the genre.
It's also an interesting and valid response to something like Star Trek, which is overly optimistic in it's vision of a future where the dregs of society basically just disappear, and people generally don't think to misuse all of that technology in some heinous manner.

If you want existential sci-fi with robots and stuff, fine. That's not the essence of what cyberpunk is though. That's more Asimov.
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>>23196977
>You can't pretend that's not a factor of the genre.
That's completely different from saying a mutant ideology, blind to narrow material and overwrought biases, spiteful of their natural betters (though they sometimes behave badly), is the main theme of cyberpunk. So stop saying stupid things.
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>>23197083
It literally is the main theme of cyberpunk. "The future is already here - it's just not very evenly distributed", is a thing Gibson said at one point.

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Your opinion on the author, Allan Nevins? I'm getting a book by him on Grover Cleveland.

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Are books about personal growth like picrel actually useful?
I can't help but a sort of cynical outlook on those type of books thinking they're only there to trick normies into consooming.
Am I wrong? Are there any worthy personal development books that one should read?
>>
>>23197071
they are like motivational movies: they wont teach anything useful to achieve success, rather they will just motivate you to try something to achieve success. Often they bring stories of successful people or people who jumped over obstacles, but if you dig enough you will see they are not very credible. Just read and evaluate them by yourself
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>>23197071
Well, self help books are the most popular in America and America has some of the worst social mobility of the western world. Do a 2+2.

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Who is a "good" author you think is shit?
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>>23196976
Cormac McCarthy
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>>23196984
Why do you think that?
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>>23196976
Hemingway, Pynchon
>>
>>23196976
Pic unrelated
>>
Donna Tartt


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