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mediocre to "competent" AI that stops being a challenge when you understand the game
multiplayer is where the meat of the game is due to in-game politicking since outright killing everyone else is not the most viable way to win so you need to pursue alternative win conditions

>>1720694
Garbage, no good, poorly thought-out. Just a failure of a game. Pirate it and play a couple of games of skirmish with max size map size if you want to feel like you're playing an RTS then leave it forever because it's shit.

The biggest problem I had that while it advertises itself as a mini-4x, a lot of the time the outcome is decided by gookclick combat micro. Though I heard there was some update that supposedly addressed this, I haven't tried it.

>>1720703
>gookclick combat micro
I think you might be mistaking needing to move units with gookclick micro. People that say shit like this haven't played RTS since they were children playing against easy AI. Of course if you move a unit out of the way of something it performs better than someone who doesn't. That's in literally every RTS.

>>1720704
he confirmed that anyone who use term gookclick is mentally retarded and doesnt even play rts games.

it's good, however only in multiplayer, and only with people you know

>>1720694
it would theoretically be good to play with friends if any of us had friends that would play strategy games with us

>>1720703
>>1720704
>>1720705
gookclicker false flag

>>1720704
>That's in literally every RTS.
Oh I agree, and that's why RTS is a shitty genre for the most part and not real strategy. It makes you win by having a better reaction time and fine motor control, not by having a better plan (aka strategy). Bringing that shit into 4X is a mistake.

>>1720709
yeah essentially. my dad loves dune and i'm trying to get him to play it but he's even more retarded than me and finds the learning curve a pain in the ass. however the AI isn't too bad and i feel like they're a somewhat good challenge on medium difficulty and they will even fight each other and treat other AI the same as you. just finished a game where an AI assassinated the fremen AI which was a surprise. i picked it up when it was $35AUD and its increased in price to ~$50AUD, which i'd say is a bit too much despite it being fully released. there's also a DLC if you want to play as Ix but i hope they leave it at that. northguard has about 20 DLC for individual clans you can play as and there aren't really enough houses or factions in dune for that. they added house ecaz which i think was mentioned a few times in the original dune and another time in either heretics or chapterhouse so they're clearly running out of ideas. i believe they won't add house ordos for some reason.

>>1720720
>RTS is a shitty genre
why dont you just fuck off and go back to your mobile game board or whatever schizo board you came from

>>1720722
>rtsbabby starts malding when confronted by reality

>>1720720
>and not real strategy
Yeah it's real time strategy. That's where the T comes from. Otherwise it'd be called RS.

>>1720694
>play as Harlingen against fremen
>they win every military engament despite the fact my army outnumbers theirs 5/1
>launch my capital shit, the overlord
>its fucking useless
>they launch a raid on my border village with 7 heavy militias, 2 turrets and a military base support
>kill everybody in 5 seconds
>decide to gas them
>the gas only eats 30% hp
>say fuck it and send the six assassins I was hoarding
>in a couple of days they rebuild their entire army and throw it against me again.
>this time they attack my village near an allied native cave
>throw everybody into the grinder expecting the worst
what happens next blew my ass off
>after the first freeman mudjaheden gets hit by a single bullet their entire army turns around and starts retreating.
They run to the allied native cave as I peruse them
>just run around it as if trying to enter it, not resisting or fighting back while my troops massacre them.
>kill everybody
>they are back the next day

>>1720723
>mentally ill faggot enters RTS threads to spew his irrelevant opinion think he matters
literal schizo and completely delusional

>>1720727
>OP literally ask whether a game that is the mix of 4X and RTS is good
>I explain why including RTS elements in 4X is not good
>schizo comes along and calls me a schizo

>>1720730
you still dont get it do you nobody gives a flying fuck, your schizoid opinion is irrelevant

>>1720732
you seem to give a fuck since you keep getting upset and replying

>>1720720
>I am mega brained my dude
>But in this game where time is also a resource my mega brain can't cope
Go back to your Paracuck threads faggot we don't want your kind here.

>>1720738
If you need to make up shit I didn't say just to cope with reality, that's fine by me.

>>1720740
You're the piss baby that's crying about a game played in real time and how dare that game have time as a resource. Maybe go be a retarded faggot somewhere else.

>>1720742
>how dare that game have time as a resource.
There are plenty of games that have time as a resource that don't involve any combat micro.

>>1720743
>Muh Micro
>Oh no I had to like click drag and select my dudes and attack one of the weaker dudes and I like had to use an ability and my 90 IQ brain can't handle that.

>>1720745
My brain could handle it even if it had only 40 IQ, because it doesn't involve much brain activity. You are the one who associates brainless clicking with IQ, which is kinda sad, but you do you.

>>1720748
>I could do it
So why complain?

>>1720750
I could also close 100 popup windows after every action I take in the game, but that doesn't make for a good strategy game either. It's just meaningless busywork.

>>1720752
>could also close 100 popup windows
go whine in paradrone threads you will fit right in there with rest of the shizos

>>1720760
This bit doesn't make people want to play this game.

>>1720761
Isn't your whole sperging an attempt to make people not play the game by associating it with game play elements your midwit brain is allergic to?

>>1720761
>cope
not only this game "Real time" is so simplified even paraplegic with motor skills disability can play it, more players play 15 year old starcraft 2/aoe2 than any of your beloved jack off auto battlers.

>>1720694
That's not a Fremen...

>>1720776
Correct, Liet Kynes is an Imperial.

>>1720760
Nah, I'll think I'll stay here and enjoy watching people get irrationally upset over being confronted with reality.

>>1720793
>>1720776
Honestly, I don't really care about the character in either version. Basically just a plot device in either movie.

>>1720694
I thought it was fine from what little I played.

Main issue I have is that I kind of wish it was just a 4x. Having to pause constantly isn't much fun for me.

>>1720704
>>1720720
You niggers need to play zero-k or bar. I can set units to skirmisher AI and they will automatically fire at max range and kite backward. No micro required.

>>1720703
>using mouse is gookclick
It want to believe this is bait, but I'm worried that it's not.

>>1721486
If you want to play an autobattler, then just play an autobattler.

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>enter thread
>gookclicker meltdown

I like the game, but only in multiplayer, that's where the main part is, the backstabbing politicking. I wouldn't even bother with the AI in this kind of game.
I understand the problem with the combat, it's not the best, but the micro part is pretty basic. My main issue is the UI and it's elements size and how some usually important information is put behind layers of clicking around sometimes.

>>1720721
>my dad loves dune and i'm trying to get him to play it but he's even more retarded than me and finds the learning curve a pain in the ass.
If you're looking for the definitive dune experience try the dune boardgame. You'll need at least 4 people (it's best in 6) and learning the correct rules is a pain in the ass but it's peak dune experience and playing your faction feels like the real deal

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>>1723430
>4 people (it's best in 6)
yea its not happening, is this game anything like it?

>>1720776
>when you came here to say this
>and it was already said
faith in /vst/ affirmed

>>1721486
Yep, the TA derivatives actually took steps to reduce micro and what a surprise, it made the gameplay a lot more strategic

>>1723486
>the game playing itself for you is "strategic"
no wonder those games are the ones where the 4v4+ babies congregate kek

>>1723486
why dont you fuck off to auto battlers threads on mobile /v/ board and stop shitting every RTS thread with your delusional takes

>>1723473
I haven't played imperium so I cannot tell you much about it but from what I understand it's more "boardgamey" with some eurogame influences while the og dune is literally an arrakis simulator with extremely brutal combat and treachery/negotiation in which every faction plays 1:1 to the book/film counterparts

>>1723520
because then I couldn't watch people like you get mad at being exposed

>>1723556
the only thing being exposed is your mental illness

>>1723557
you keep proving my point

>>1723560
you make no sense whatsoever and you are shitting up my thread, no fuck off back to your schizo board you retarded faggot

>>1723566
he makes a lot of sense
>>1720720
>>1720748
>>1720752

>>1721486
zero-k is better in this sense, unit AI is more sophisticated, it's pretty neat how they can react by themselves and you can set up different tactics for them to retreat to given location on HP% etc
it offloads a lot of micro work from you and lets you realize your strategy instead of being a slave to gookclicking
unless your opponent is a micro god because he will just beat your non-microed army

anyway back to Dune I have like 30 hours, only played MP and I feel like win conditions are a bit unbalanced. most of the things leans towards Hegemony victory, CHOAM or Govenor win is like when one player has been eliminated in some way, usually assassinated, and then two are locked in Hege race while the third goes for a sneaky Governor or CHOAM, but even then CHOAM is so hard because of the limited shares so I don't know
yeah nuke is pretty much a last resort Hegemony tool only too

>>1720694
Singleplayer and AI is pretty bad, but multiplayer is remarkably good after the last couple of patches. I'm really surprised that this game got so good comparing where it started.

>>1720709
The game and turin discord are pretty good at getting people to play against that you can count on to finish games. Though even random lobby games aren't that bad.

>>1720725
If you're harkonnen just build a lot of recruitment centers, and keep sending wave after wave into the grinder. Fremen have a strong army early to mid game, but it falls of in the end game. And Harkonnen just has good manpower for destruction ratio.

>>1725166
In the current balance meta choam seems the slowest one to do. It's also generally an easy one to slow someone down in. Though the damage bonus for 30% shares is pretty good.

>>1723416
>gookclicker meltdown
The word gookclick is the perfect bait. It angers both sides of the spectrum.

>>1720694
>Whats the verdict?

Solid multiplayer game. Easy to find games. Good gameplay. Reasonably balanced. Factions have good lore relevant differences.

>>1720694

>Losing battle bad, only hero left alive and running
>His army in pursuit
>Walk into sand area and bait his army there
>Use thumper to call a worm
>Worm eats my hero and half his army

Pretty close to the dream of the dune strategy experience.

>>1720720

I agree with you and I also agree to call it 'Gook click' because it's a specific kind of retarded micro that's not fun. Giving units abilities and making certain units counter other units can be interesting. Battles can be interesting if different unit compositions affect the outcome of the battle and if well-timed special abilities can turn the tide. The problem is that most RTS games are decided by very simple, mechanical, repetitive tasks like kiting and focus fire. It's like playing some kind of bullet hell game or something. That's fine if that's what you're into but it doesn't belong in a strategy game imo.

>>1720745
But do you find it fun? RTS micro in 2024 is literally exactly the same as it was in 1990 with Dune 2. You just focus fire the weakest unit and then take your weakest unit and pull it back... and repeat, ad infinitum. Do you find that fun? I don't. I found it amusing in 1990 when I was 7 years old and it was the first time I'd ever encountered it. By the time I was playing Warcraft 3 in ~2003 I was bored as fuck of this dumb, micro shit. At least WC3 added a million other things to do so it was more fun. Now we're in 2024 and combat micro is back to 1990 game design again, and isn't it ironic that it's another game named Dune? I'm bored of this stale ass design.

>>1728225
I'm terrible at micro, but I keep winning games. The battles themselves aren't the only thing that decides who wins the game, as there are 4 other win conditions and the supplies and militia give a bit of a defender's advantage.

But more importantly, it's more about the tactical use of operations, like well timed thumpers, poisoning the supplies, or even just a well timed probe scan to reveal a fremen ambush attempt. I've seen a guy that lost almost every battle, but won the war, just because he completely maxed out on manpower and just kept sending wave after wave of harkonnen to their death.

>>1728468
I'm not claiming that micro wins DSW I was just complaining about micro in general. The other major game made by Shiro, Northgard, has extremely boring combat with 1990 style micro. It's really bad. Like...really, really bad. DSW combat seems a step up from that at least, but I still find there's boring micro shit going on with stuff like the emperor's artillery units kiting like hydras in Brood War.

To me, someone who is gifted with BW hydra kiting is like someone who is good at playing Mario Bros. I mean it's kinda neat to watch for a few seconds and good for them but I don't find it particularly engaging gameplay, especially not in 2024.

>>1728594
I'm not sure how much further you can go in deprioritizing micro without removing the real time combat element. Emperor artillery has to deploy, like a starcraft siege tank does. It has a minimum range. It vibrates heavily when firing, so using them on the sand (which is 80% of the map) means you're calling a worm to them. Finally, like all mechs, an emp blast reduces its combat and speed by 50% so you can very easily attack and destroy them.

Unlike most units, mechs cost solari to produce, so both making and healing them costs precious solari.

Not saying they aren't good units or that kiting isn't valuable.

>>1728594
Don't know about northguard, but the fact that regular melee units reduce the target's speed by 10%, and flankers get +30% speed near enemies means kiting isn't effective at all unless all your units attack the exact same target. You can just not focus fire.

>>1728225
I find this game fun. Most games end with a scramble for different victories and sometimes you have to stop fighting the long war you've been fighting with someone and team up against someone else, and then hopefully stab them in the back before they do it to you. It's 20% like a political board game.

>>1720694
What's the best faction?

>>1731067
corrino, if you mean strongest

>>1720694
I don't really like it, nor did I like Northgard. There's something about this subgenre that just doesn't sit right for me.
Between the victory conditions, faction bonuses, limited build slots, tight resource management and player politicking with landsraad and shit it feels more like playing a boardgame. Obviously it's still too complex and it's real-time so it couldn't be resolved manually but it feels like it's designed like a boardgame.
Now for some people this kind of limited scope tight game design might actually be a selling point and I see how people could like it, but I played a shitload of boardgames in the flesh and this is not the kind of experience I look for in videogames. This can be an issue with 4x games in general but even something very boardgamey as civ has more slack and you don't have to optimise your win condition as hard (unless you play on some stupid high difficulty).

>>1731291
Good post. It's pretty much exactly why I like it. It has significant board game elements. But you don't have to wait for your turn, possibly the worst part of board games.

I think it's really interesting that it's a RTS where the main game mode is 4 player FFA.

>>1731291
yeah it reminds me of offworld trading company which I also liked a lot
but I understand it's not for everyone

>>1733668
>I think it's really interesting that it's a RTS where the main game mode is 4 player FFA
There are some real time 4X games that are obviously FFA by default, but this isn't really a 4X game in the same sense and it does add to the boardgame-like quality of limited number of players who all interact with each other.

>>1734479
Oh, I remember that thing. Offworld trading company was peak eurogame. I haven't played much of it but I remember I enjoyed it at the time, maybe I just prefer eurogames.

>>1734495
I don't think it's accurate to call dune spice wars a 4X game. These definitions are always a little nebulous.

The soft cap on authority preventing exponential expansion... and also the rubberbanding by making conquering cheaper if you've lost some territory.

When I first started playing I left games just way too early, using game sense of other games that any kind of early significant loss would mean you're too kneecapped to have a chance. This is one of the things I like about it; it does have early aggression, but even if you straight up lose it, you might still win the game.

>>1731291
what sort of boardgames do you like, out of curiosity? I agree it's very boardgamey in the vein of Root or Twilight Imperium, and I'm happy to see videogames finally take some of the lessons of the recent great boardgames.
>>1734495
I think it's quite strictly a eurogame. You do every X, and it fits the general gameplay arc of "colony rush into positioning into pushing for victory" 4Xs have.
oh eurogames? It still has elements in the eco, but yeah it's much more a political dudes-on-a-map kind of game.
>>1731067
>>1731285
Yep Corrino. Every faction has their own strengths though, aside from the DLC one Vernius, who kinda suck. Atreides have a great cheese at the moment, but it'll most likely be patched out.
>>1734834
The best games are ones where you get behind early but come out on top. FFA is self-balancing, in some ways. Don't leave early, good players will note your name and won't play with you.

>>1735362
>I think it's quite strictly a eurogame.
strictly a 4X, I meant.

>>1735362
>Atreides have a great cheese at the moment, but it'll most likely be patched out

What's the atreides cheese?

let me guess... mass peaceful cap? Maybe even abandoning all after you have acquired cheaper peaceful cap tech?

>>1735539
almost. You can cancel an ongoing peaceful annexation for a full refund of authority, juggling that around lets you do a simultaneous cap of many many regions, combine it with building the research center in your main base and optionally paying the spice tax, and you shoot up 10k hegemony.

>>1735939
lmao okay

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>1735939
It just got patched out on the day we discussed it.

Honestly quite happy with how bugs and obvious exploits aren't in the game for long.

>>1735362
>aside from the DLC one Vernius, who kinda suck.

Do they though? Their early army sucks, but obfuscate is very strong and so are the intelligent machines.

>>1741143
they can stop other people from winning, or slow them down at least, but struggle to win themselves.

>>1737577
what I don't understand how they can't fix things like harkonnen instill fear affecting the "Hostile" modifier on pillaged villages but not mentioning it anywhere or retarded UI things like the maintenance center bonus

>>1741868
eh, keeping modifiers up to date in multiple languages across patches can be kinda hard. It doesn't say anywhere in the UI that they receive a hostile modifier either.

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>>1741868
>>1745629
see?