shogun 2
it really whips the llama's ass
>>1715908YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>1715908Genuine question, why does no one talk about the RotS scenario? Is it that bad? I'm planning on playing it after I finished my current campaign in the main campaign but I keep seeing people say it's bad
>>1715908ashigaru matchlocks in castles, Hojo power
>>1716298It's not bad, it's just extremely limited. Most provinces do not have castles, there isn't really anything special not already in the standard game.
>>1716298its like beta shogun 2
>>1716298It's cool for the first hour or so, but then you realize that the only real difference between it and vanilla Shogun 2 is that agents are obscenely powerful
>>1716298People like FoS because it has better units and killer firepower. RoS is the exact opposite.
our troobs are lunning from the battlefield, this is a shamefuru dispray
>>1716298You are better off just watching gaytube videos or reading books on the Gempei War than playing RotS.It's very limited, you are still playing on the Sengoku map but with less interesting units.
>started new game after not having played in forever>pick Oda because Nobunaga is a chad historically>wreck every other faction with cheap as fuck ashigaruHow is Oda balanced?
>>1719405Every clan can win by spamming ashigaru.
>>1719446I don't remember it being that way the last time i played.Does a full stack of ashigaru beat a full stack AI stack of samurai?
>>1719449A player probably could, but also you can have two or more stacks of ashigaru for the price of one, plus you can make them wherever the fuck you want without having to research or build anything.
>>1719452True i guess.Oh well I just like Oda.
>>1716298It's not bad but just feels lackluster compared to even just vanilla. Guns removed, samurai are the universal unit, Fujiwara is sort of cucked out of samurai and can only use levies (ashigaru-tier) or warrior monks (which aren't that great actually).Also sieges and defending in general suck because most provinces just don't have castles.
Fall of the samurai should've had an endgame campaign either defending or attacking Japan from/with an invading European/US army
>>1719405It's a PvE game, it's not supposed to be balanced.Try multiplayer and you'll notice how most of your cheesy ashigaru strategies just don't fucking work because human players know what they're capable of.
Shogun 2 (including FotS) is the best historical total war game of all time
>>1719488>Try multiplayer and you'll notice how most of your cheesy ashigaru strategies just don't fucking work because human players know what they're capable of.I won almost every single MP game by using lines of veteran matchlock ashigaru supported by a mangonel (pre-nerf)/cannon, 4 units of cavalry, and 1-2 units of yari. I think one of the few armies able to beat me was ikko ikki swordsman spam because their morale and numbers were too great. ~3 lines of matchlocks kills almost anything
>>1719405you'll think that since ashigaru are spammable you'll win easily, but the AI has so many cheats that it spits out vetted samurai stacks.
>>1719405They kinda aren't, Oda are generally considered to have one of if not the strongest bonus. Your yari ashigaru for example have +1 attack, defense and morale which is an increase of 25%, 33% and 20% respectively. All that while paying less upkeep and lower recruitment cost.Nominally they are balanced by the fact that other factions have way better unique units and starting positions ore better boni.But like >>1719446 said spamming ashigaru is a winning move and all factions with boni to them are good.Bow and musket ashigaru have worse reload and accuracy than their samurai but stay somewhat competitive due to their larger volume of fire and lower price, the Oda bonus lowers the skill gap.And yari ashigaru have yari wall which makes them one of the strongest melee units and the best unit in terms of price to performance.Doesn't hurt that you can stack them with the long yari ashigaru of Oda so their spear walls overlap leading to double the killing power in one spot.>>1719449Somewhat iffy on the highest difficulties if you're not good/not stacking encampment and smith boni. On lower difficulties where the AI doesn't have busted unit stats though an army made up of yari and bow ashigaru with some light cavalry should win.
>>1719507>long yari ashigaru of Oda so their spear walls overlapWhat now?
>>1719511Well ordinarily yari ashigaru are basically M2TW spearman doing a pike wall. Oda gets long yari ashigaru as unique unit which not only have better stats but, as the name suggests, yari which are longer. Which basically makes them classic M2TW pike men.Now if you put a thin line of ordinary yari in yari wall and another thin line of long yari in yari wall right at their butts the spears wnd at roughly the same spot.As a consequence any enemy that runs into them gets shoved back by 2 units and takes damage from 2 sources.It is somewhat unwieldy though.You can also put muskets directly in front of them instead of ordinary yari for an improvised pike and shot.Oh and while I'm at it, putting yari wall directly behind a wall when defending a castle instead of on it is also pretty nasty when someone climbs the wall.
shogunate or imperial? Defend your choiceFor me its shogunate because the emperor is a stinky doodoo head
>>1721059Imperial guard cavalry is wy more useful than the shogunate doodoo pile.Although most of the time I still tend to go republic
>see thread>time for a new playthrough I guess>time to try a clan that I haven't played yet like Hojo or Mori>cue Otomo game nr. 874Every fucking time.
>>1716298not much variety and most units are just levies
>>1721059Pro Emperor because they have cooler Uniforms
>>1722728>not chadsokabewish we had art for every clan
Just got this game. How do I start?
I wanted to play Mori but then I found out about how shit it is to recruit their unique unit
>>1723644Get chosokabe.Spam samurai archers with yari ashigaru.Don't give a fuck about early alliances.Turn everything into porcupines
>>1723801What about trade, agents, tech trees etc.
>>1723644Legendary difficulty first playthrough, don't be a casual
>>1723644What >>1723801 wrote is a good starting point. Take one of the easy clans, chosokabe or shimazu, and just lean into their schtick. So heavy focus on bows or katana respectively. You could also pick a normal one although hattori and ikki ikki are inadvisable, they have their own gimmicks.Use the clan trait as your basic gameplan as to which units to rely on and what to focus on in terms if research or province traits. I.e. smith for shimazu and fletcher for chosokabe.Check the encyclopedia.>tradeArguably not much to talk about. The more goods you have the more do the other clans want to trade with you. Trade agreements put a premium on the price of the goods which scales with the duration of the agreement. Any remaining goods are sold at base price. All AI clans covet horses as goods.Try to stack a couple trade ships on each trde ode if you can, enemy ships and pirates will target them though.>agentsNinja beats monk, monk beats metsuke, metsuke beats ninja. Geisha doesn't care about character class and is specialized in assassination.Metsuke are arguably best as supervisors in your wealthiest towns to make even more profit.Missionars and ikki ikki monks are stronger than buddhist monks but the religions are not as uncomplicated.>tech treesHeavily dependent on what your goals are. Heaven and earth is nice to stack boni, religion is good but more something for later, higher level farms are a must have, can be useful to focus on one line in military instead of spreading it.
>>1723954ok thanks
.
>wanted to challenge myself with a republic run>think just going to stop right before realm divide to build myself up>go to far and end up inverting Japans flag
Every mod is fucking broken or outdated
>>1725718Lel, building up doesn't make it much better. I've just started a Nagaoka republic run and it's a pain despite building up before the realm divide.Doesn't help that I have a 3 front war because I couldn't expand anymore without triggering RD.>>1725766Works for me desu. Which mods are you trying?
>immersion mod hasn't been updated since 2019>all it truly needs is bugfixing with unit selection and agent limit adjustments
daily reminder that CA intentionally screwed over old, finely working mods with one nothing-patch
>>1715908I love Shogun 2, top 3 total wars ever for sure.
>>1719548>You can also put muskets directly in front of them instead of ordinary yari for an improvised pike and shot.This is forbidden knowledge, be silent.
>>1723833>TradeGet trade nodes only if you need a specific resource like incense. Not worth waging war with all of Kyushu otherwise until late game.>agentsNinjas: YesMonks: Yes but just leave them in cities and only level up their research bonus skills.Missionaries if you convert: Mega yes, go around and cause rebellions everywhereMetsuke: Get them and park them in your most profitable cities, typically the ones with gold mines or special trade buildings.Geisha: Not worth the research time and requirements to build the Mizu Shobai district.> tech treesMilitary 1, then Economy 1 and all the way down to farming reforms so you can upgrade them to level 3. Then go down the archer line if Chosokabe, or Yari or Sword but not all three yet. Ignore cavalry, it's honestly not very useful in most situations (sieges).Finish the temple line next, then go for more eco research for taxes and happiness. After that either finish up eco or pick whatever you think looks cool on the military side.
>>1726353IMO fire arrows are a pretty important early tech. The ability to set castle gates and enemy ships on fire makes your life a lot easier.
I love shogun
>In this moment, I am euphoric.>Not because of any phony kami's blessing.>But because, I am enlightened by his holy light and guns.>t. Otomo>>1727193Same
>>1726552Honestly I think people undervalue military techs in shogun2. Yeah economy is important but you get so many good bonuses that just give you edges in every category from the first mil techs that it permits you to be more aggressive because you'll win battles more regularly with fewer casualties.
CA had such a good chance to release Shogun 3 along with the Shogun TV show.
>>1727283You mean TW Warhammer or Troy with a japanese skin.
I'd be interested in a Nippon faction in War III with oni and kitsune spirits and giant centipedes
Masta... one of our shi trade routes is unda attack from an enemy fleet...
>>1725766I just want a complete bugfix mod. Some guy was working on one but seems to have abandoned it years ago. The current build has issues it introduced and a quite a few bugs unfixed.
>general betrays you at the final battlekino...
>>1727303That would be bad, but 3K with jap skin would be fine.
>>1731080just make Samurai Warriors Total War
got into masters of strategy sengokuit's good to play battles manually again, rockets and mortars are so funhowever, the game just crashed on me for the first time mid-siegealso i didn't even know that there's a 40 unit cap during battle, shame
>>1715908What beats what? I charge bows with yari samurai and naginata samurai and they keep getting decimated when yari astigmatism move up into the fray?I know swords beat the yari but the computer always has more bows than me and I figure naginata are probably the best to charge them since they have my best armor. I’m way better at Atilla and Rome 2 than Shogun. I thought shogun was going to be a simpler casual chill out game.
>>1734203Ranged is king in Shogun 2, shields don't exist and guns ignore armor.Cav is your strongest counter, simply threatening the enemy flanks will force the AI to react and move its archers which stops the from shooting.If you have access to bow monks you can use a few with their superior range and whistling arrows to suppress the enemy archers.Fire rockets also have longer range than bows and are great cav killers.If you can force the AI to move to you it'll negate their advantage. Unmodded fire mangonel are shit for that though, they have a hidden accuracy debuff.As for naginata vs yari to charge in, it's a bit of a toss up.Naginata are your tanky all rounder, yari are defensive anti-cav and katana are your anti-infantry.Naginata are more armored, which is the only stat that helps against arrows, but yari have rapid advance. That can allow them to close in faster, when walking with rapid advance they are faster than running without.Mixing some yari into the front to draw fire for naginata or katana can be worthwhile.
Idk how to get better. I can beat chosokabe and shimazu on hard but none of the others, and in FOTS I feel like I’m always poor and can never get enough going. I’m always winning battles but I just end up poor or beat down relentlessly.
>>1734358target fancy castles and sack them, once you own them destroy every building and abandon the settlement to rebels, move to the next big castle to sack>honorthere's no honor in being broke
>25 provinces under my control, kyoto included>win the game without even hitting realm dividei think MoSS might be buggedalso rockets and mortars refuse to shoot at certain archer/matchlock towers, but that might be a strongholds of the samurai bug, i'm not sure
>>1734906At the very least, twenty-rive provinces shouldn't trigger realm divide at this scale. I'm not even sure if you're bigger than the historical Uesugi. Did you get any notice from taking Kyoto?
>>1734974i guess it must be scaled with number of total provinces, since there's much more of them in MoSS, but the target for the short campaign is still only 25. I recall hitting realm divide in vanilla on short campaign. I'm not sure how vassal fiefs interact with divide too.>Did you get any notice from taking Kyoto?just the standard "hold Kyoto for 1 year to claim shogun title"
>>1719487Would be fun to throw them out with my Traditional army led by Saigo Takamori
>>1734356>and guns ignore armor.I don't think that's completely accurate, but they certainly ignore most of it
Any tips for a beginner who wants to start with Takeda?
>>1735098Kill the Hojo and take their gold mine. If you want to play into your strength with cav-heavy armies, know that the AI tends to be pretty spear-heavy due to ashigaru and what not, so utilizing them to snipe enemy generals and then shock morale damaged units into a mass rout will be key.
>>1734358Fots economy is just fucked like that. They made it that way on purpose to try and delay the player snowballing, but it just means the early game is glacial until you suddenly have infinite money in the midgame.
>>1734356>shields don't existWhy weren't shields prevalent in japan (at least during the period) anyways? Seems like something that should be a universal piece of equipment on a battlefield where it's possible to carry something strong enough to stop a projectile or strike, and where you have a good chance to maneuver that something between you and that incoming projectile or strike. Yeah the guns aren't easy to see coming and would require a shield that'd be quite heavy to carry, but we aren't talking line-warfare or even pike and shot levels of guns here. You (seemingly) still have a majority of soldiers using spears and arrows.My understanding of warfare during the period and place isn't great, so I'm guaranteed missing something.
>>1735075Yeah could be that they don't have an AP trait like in FotS.But considering that matchlovks do 2 damage, compared to 0.3 of regular arrows, it's virtually the same as being AP.There might be some edge cases like heroes with 14 armor because they have 2 HP but I'm not sure if even max armor naginata samurai get any benefits when facing guns.Doesn't help that, afaik, no one knows how the game truly calculates damage and armor interaction.
>>1735294I know, best I could test it was in a campaign where I had a ton of armor side by side with unarmored shogitai. It seemed like the shogitai died more quickly, but it might have just been my imagination.Also, Date can field Bulletproof Samurai with like 13 armor.
>>1735282Japanese did use pavise style shields to hide from arrows but carrying shields in hand while not non-existent like the romanticised depictions would lead to you to believe was pretty uncommon. Their weapons of choice bow, naginata, yari require two hands to use and would be difficult to use with a shield on horseback. Especially since samurai would have been originally archers more than anything else. Also the huge ass flat pauldrons on japanese armour are sort of shields, you can raise your shoulder to hide your face and bunch of upper body with it and it it depicted being used this way.
>>1735282Multiple reasons for that. Mainly a focus on two handed weapons like polearms and bows.Classic one handed shields were mainly a thing of early periods, 800AD and earlier, although it's not like they were completely gone afterwards.The main shield were pavise like wooden shields, the deployable defenses archers get ingame. They were mostly a stationary defense for archers and gunners but could and were carried by infantry and used like mantlets in europe.Matchlocks, which had the the potential to break those shields, lead to the use of things like wet straw in front of the shields to slow down the bullets which necessitated a more stationary use.Samurai during the Heian period, RotS, were still focused on being mounted archers. With shields being a hindrance when using the bow it led to the oversized shoulder plates or "shields" on the armors of that period, pic related.After the mongol invasion and over the following centuries armor became better, a bit like european early medieval vs late medieval armor. Combined with the increase in army size and less ritualized combat, champion vs champion, mounted archery lost its relevance, arguably because mounted bows couldn't perform as well as before.The samurai then transitioned more to fighting Stiles like european shock cavalry and english foot knights, with their use of two handed weaponry, for better anti-armor capabilities.Similarly the lowly foot soldier tended to mainly use polearms, bows and guns against armored foes and cavalry which would make shields a hindrance too.And it's not like the basic "ashigaru" was necessarily poorly armored, by the time of the main game basic mass produced armor was a thing for them. Although samurai could even afford armor tested against matchlocks.>>1735311>Also, Date can field Bulletproof Samurai with like 13 armor.Yeah but the big thing about bulletproof samurai is that they have the bulletproof trait. Iirc that gives 33% to ignore a gun hit.
Where do I start with Shogun 2?
>>1739344>install game>turn off search for drop in multiplayer battles>select base campaign>pick chosokabe or shimazu
>>1716298Half-baked. Needed a more developed campaign layer to support its relatively simple battles. It's a shame because I love the half-fantasy themeing and the samurai are a blast to use.
>>1735098Incredibly late reply but light cavalry are your friend. Also Uesugi AI is coded to be more aggressive towards you so prepare for a northern invasion. Take gold mine like the other anon said but also take Imagawa's school.
>>1715908Been playing this a lot lately. Love the setting, art design, map, music. Really like that I can play a short campaign in 2 days so o get to try a lot of factions. But damn is it slow for action. Seems like a battle or 2 completely breaks a faction.
Holy shit I've been playing fots legendary choshu for 10 hours straight and keep getting fucked by ai naviesIt takes just one or two naval battles and it's fucking overnext theres your billion koku foreing trade port being destroyed alongside your buildings and a naval invasion you can't combat because all your rice went to repairs
Playing for the first time, shimazu, damn those christian niggers are annoying
