Why do JRPG's lack artistic merit, and are incapable of compelling or interesting environments?
Because the primary audience don't care about any of that. Nip fans just want the game to have cute girls to jerk off to and make doujins of while westerners just want to pretend to play the game so they can virtue signal about buying a game with said cute girls and "owning the normalfags".
>>3461987Because your mother fucks gypsies
>>3461987Not the same target audience. I personally find right to be more appealing, but that's just to my tastes and what I want in my games.
JRPG fans are too stupid to appreciate post-modern meta-ironic deconstruction built on subverting expectations. They are plebes that simply want to be entertained.
>>3461995>JRPG fans are too stupid to appreciate post-modern [...] deconstruction built on subverting expectations.
>>3461987>Another WRPG fag complains about JRPGs.If your art was so compelling why aren't you playing or discussing it?
>>3461987i think the final fantasy games, at least the older ones (like before ix) are often noted for their striking environments
>>3462046Interesting argument.>>3459509>>3461001>>3460366>>3419478>>3427127>>3459905I guess these threads are all from people too busy playing JRPG's to complain about WRPG's/CRPG'S?
>>3461987An anime girl with big tits is as far as JRPGs will go aesthetically.
>>3461987>left: grey, boring, still, monotone>right: bright, vibrant, cute, funpillars of estrogen sisters...
>>3461995>appreciate post-modern meta-ironic deconstruction built on subverting expectationsyou've just described like half of all anime
oh boy! tolkien fantasy... AGAIN! yum yum! and look, it even uses DND as a basis! *gobbles up the wrpg slop*
>>3462063These are made by the same person, who is the same person that made this thread and many more like it
>>3462046nta but i personally stopped discussing PoE here because someone couldnt stop crying about bg3 in the threads
>>3461987Shit it's the skull
>>3461987>The example I used was some bargain bin Atelier shit to make my pointNice bait
>>3461987Right is better though?
>>3461994>>3462088>>3462288>look at OP's comparison>go into thread>assume that weebs will go out of their way to defend the boring bland shit on the right>i am not dissappointedWeebs are perhaps the most predictable group of consumers in the market.
>>3462288left took more effort for worse end result
>>3462254oh boy! Miyazaki fantasy... AGAIN! yum yum! and look, it even uses Princess Mononoke as a basis! *gobbles up the jrpg slop*
>>3462351there's like 2 games that directly take inspiration from miyazaki, he's just the only japanese creator you know because you're a shallow normalfag LMAO
>>3462352there's like 2 games that directly take inspiration from tolkein, he's just the only western creator you know because you're a shallow normalfag LMAO
>>3462352>calls anon a normalfag for copying his comment and then calling out miyazaki>fails to realize the irony of this after calling out tolkien
>>3461987>and are incapable of compelling or interesting environmentsSee that robot?You can climb it and find the city in its skull.
>>3461987Because that allows them to make more games.Why do you think there is 1 WRPG each year vs 10+ JRPGs?
>>3461995IT SUBVERTED MY EXPECTATIONSIT BROKE NEW GROUNDI CLAPPED WHEN I SAW THE ORCS USED AS AN ALLEGORY FOR SYSTEMIC RACISM
>>3462353echolalia = autism btw you could be collecting neetbux
>>3462353The only other one is Dragon Age blatantly ripping off Robert Jordan.
warpigs gonna FREAK when sawyer is brought on to direct the next atelier game
>>3462404>the only other one is Robert Jordan>mfw weebfaggots are actually this stupidBase, default D&D itself had like,10 different direct inspirations, 3 of which are house-hold names if you've ever picked up a fucking fantasy book, none of which were Tolkien.
Does anyone have that image comparing western and jap romance using baldurs gate 3 and atelier ryza as the examples?
>>3461987
>>3461987>fuck-huge colossal skeleton>domed in the face by a fucking meteorkek
>>3462442I like Tolkein's works but it's really a shame that pretty much all modern fantasy works have defaulted to a much more generic adaptation of his style of vaguely medieval, sort of European kind of setting.Where the fuck are all my new science fantasy games?
90% of JRPGs look like ps2 games, they're afraid of adding anything more than a flat grass texture and a single tree
>>3462593Great cherry-picked example you stupid disingenuous fuck
>>3462628prove em wrong
>>3462351At the end of the day killing god is based and worshiping him is cringe. CRPGs are better than JRPGs but SMT is better than all CRPGs.
>>3461987I don't see any artistic merit in either of the examples. If you want to either cherrypick or judge justly, do it better.
>>3462650I mean, there is big skull
>>3462646kay
>>3462652Wowza,made me ponder mortality or some other shit
>>3462660looks pretty barren aside from the one thing
>>3462671Retard
>>3462018Black Souls sucks dick.
>>3462671>>3462674He isn't wrong. That's a nice cinematic shot and decent composition, sure, but the actual elements in the image are a broken down circular structure and an empty expanse of rocky terrain. That's it.The pillars off eternity example in OP has the decomposing skeleton of some giant, what looks like some blue meteorite that caved it's skull in, stairs leading down into some kind of lake, all on a snowy mountain with s stone structure built into the side of it.
>>3461987>Why do JRPG's lack artistic merit, and are incapable of compelling or interesting environments?Because most of the people who are here are only interested in absolutely terrible JRPGs, so this would give you the impression that the genre is very bad. Its almost entirely Square, Atlus, and RPG maker crap, but those are as basic and shitty as it gets. Its like saying you like CRPGs then only playing TES, New Vegas, and mods.
>>3462699Name some not terrible ones then.
Haha...
>>3462482Ultima has been Science Fantasy since like 1981.
>>3461987Honestly, you could have put literally any jrpg name on the right one, and I would've believed it. Every single one seems to have "flat, generic, grassy zone" that's meant for you to repetitively grind for 4 hours on, and then walk through 100 times as you do slayer quest after slayer quest after slayer quest, completely ignoring anything and everything. At least in most WRPG's, they have the decency to move on from certain areas once they're no longer important or relevant.
>>3462482Peak of Tolkien-influence was in the 80's for RPG's, with many games just flat-out naming their games after locations or creatures from his writings. Afterwards, it mostly started copying Wheel of Time and Michael Moorcock. I can't even remember the last Tolkien-inspired RPG. His only lasting influence on the genre has been orcs and elves, and I feel like there's been more JRPG's in the last 10 years with Tolkien-esque elves in them than WRPG's. It also seems like Warhammer's take on Goblins has become the de-facto interpretation of them in virtually all fiction.
>>3461987Im trying not say anything racist about japs so i will just refrain from participating anymore in this thread
>>3462765>Im trying not say anything racist about japs so i will just refrain from participating anymore in this threadPlease, anon, "Japs" is an outdated and hurtful term. Please call them Nips instead, short for glorious Nippon.
>>3462755God i fucking hate how true this is. Normoids love their soulless bright coloured slop
>>3462660I would've gone with Noctilum as a better example. Even Primordia, as the games average grasslands zone, is better than average.
I'll never understand the slap fight between wrpg and JRPG fans. There are phenomenal games that fall under both umbrellas and you're doing yourself a disservice if you treat it like a sports team you have to root for instead of a genre.
>>3462871They have completely different design philosophies. JRPGs tend to have linear design, simple combat and tend to focus on lighthearted, fantastical worlds + character interactions. Meanwhile western RPGs tend to be nonlinear, have more complex combat systems and lean towards doom & gloom. Someone who tends to value the former is unlikely to like the latter and vice versa. Think of it like the eternal fight between prosefags and plotfags. There's a reason Moby-Dick has a laughably low Goodreads score, while simultaneously sitting at the very top of /lit/'s top 100 list. The two different kinds of readers value something completely different in a book and thus are unable to understand each other.As you said, there are great games on both sides. And while games to mostly fall towards their respective camps, there are exceptions (e.g. SaGa and Black Souls are both highly nonlinear and have a more involved combat system, Mass Effect 2 has a simpler combat system and focuses a lot on character interactions) which make trying out the other side of the fence worthwhile. Just don't expect an Underrail fan to like Persona or a Dragon Quest fan to like E.Y.E.
>>3462890Very well articulated post. I understand the differences as a general statement for sure. I just will never understand people who treat everything as an us vs them. I don't believe that there are no JRPGs out there that the OP would enjoy. I suspect he wrote them off and has only tried a handful. Oh well, their loss I suppose. I think there's some similarities in the sense of adventure I get from a good SaGa game and that of Baldur's Gate 1. Just exploring a world, finding companions, stumbling across plot points and side quests while gaining strength.
>>3463003Generalisation still serves an important purpose. I know that "in general" I don't like JRPGs, much like I don't like romantic comedies, hip-hop, CGDCT or sentimental novels. That means I'll be much more discerning in what I choose to try and what I choose to avoid, and that I'll tend to stick to what I do like. There's no point in forcefully forcing myself to indulge in a genre I don't like.But if I know that a certain piece in the genre shares elements with what I do like - e.g. SaGa and nonlinearity, Death Grips and experimental/industrial music, Pierre and great prose - then ignoring it would mean that I'm doing myself a disservice. And I also think it's important to be able to articulate why I don't like certain genre/design choices and to have the empathy to understand why someone might like what I personally hate. It makes you a more discerning reader, which also leads to being able to being able to appreciate the things you like even more.
>>3462781I feel like you can pick any zone in X to get the point across, they all have flying islands with inner cave networks, structures and strange large objects that can be examined up close
>>3462664Giant Man is dead... Fuck !
>>3462871It's mostly been exacerbated by Nintendo-fags, who, after growing up on Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Secret of Mana, and Breath of Fire, graduate to using the PC and expound religiously how awe-shatteringly-magnificent these games are, and coming head to head with a crowd that cut their teeth on Baldur's Gate, Ultima, Wizardry, and Diablo. Needless to say, PC gamers tend to view CRPG's as "hardcore" games, while JRPG's are generally seen as simpler, and more casual-friendly.At least, that's how I see it. I definitely know that I would be more apt to try more JRPG's if the people who talked about them weren't such insufferable faggots. Although to be fair, there is definitely also a cultural divide of people who are western chauvinists, and people who are weaboos, who each rabidly defend their own respective cultural titles out of a sense of pride and loyalty.
dude a skullthat's so fucking BADASSt. randy pitchford
>>3463129It's not just Nintendo fags, but console fags in general. Console games, nearly every single time, were simpler games due to their simpler control scheme. You couldn't make the games too complex or they'd be a nightmare to navigate on a controller. Meanwhile MKB was limited only by your imagination. This applies not only to RPGs but to strategy games and shooters as well.That's not to say there aren't any worthwhile games. SaGa games, which were already mentioned in this thread, pride themselves on being experimental and nonlinear. And Romancing SaGa 2 was released on a Nintendo console. If I were to point you toward one old JRPG worth trying that'd be it. Vagrant Story on the PS1 is, in my view, another one worth giving a try due to its combat system, though this one suffers greatly from hardware limitations. The core gameplay's fun, but extremely long load times and animations kind of kill the joy of engaging in it. A remaster (but not a remake!) would do the game a lot of good. Or at least a mod that fixes its technical issues.
>>3463141Vagrant Story definitely looks like it would be more fitting for me to try, since it doesn't have that overly-anime art style that a lot of others tend to have. Which brings to mind another divide; art style preference. WRPG's tend to have darker, moodier, and more dirtier art styles, while JRPG's are very clean, sleek, and colorful art styles.
>>3463003>Very well articulated post.Yo dude, its extremely obvious you're replying to yourself when you say things like this and you do it a lot. Can you stop? Games like SaGa are why jrpgs are so maligned, because it is a made for console jrpg (now made for phones) where its systems are overwhelmingly exaggerated and quite frankly poorly realized and bad. People shill this shit endlessly then when someone finally falls for it they immediately find out its slop. And as you said, its extremely likely that someone who is obsessed with BG1 will be contrarian enough to masturbate over SaGa, as any well-to-do CRPG fan will have realized IE games are very basic, and moved on to better and deeper things. There are companies which are historically PC first, like Falcom, as well as many beloved classics on 4chan like Recettear which led the charge for JRPGs returning to PC, and furthermore, other JRPGs which surpassed their CRPG contemparies of the time, like Skies of Arcadia released the same year as BG2 and it objectively has much better RPG mechanics, character development, open world and level design than that game, and I'd argue even though its combat is fairly braindead and bad its superior to IE's extremely subpar implementation of the DnD ruleset. Can't say any of that about a square game, especially not SaGa.
>>3463159Yep. The divide remains even within the fans of computer RPGs. Just look at W1 and W3 fags. One of the reasons some people prefer W1 is due to its darker, grittier, uglier art direction. From the environment to the characters. W3 is very colourful and clean in comparison. It's why some people were disappointed in W3 when the game dropped, apart from the obvious graphical downgrade. The trailer showed a game much darker in tone.
>>3463173Witcher 3 is not a CRPG. Its not a computer RPG. Its a console RPG. Witcher 1 was also not as well recieved as slavs like to pretend it was, and mostly just got attention for having naked women in it.
>>3463166I like Recettear and its merchant mechanics, but I can't take you seriously when you praise it like that. Its combat was dogshit. I dreaded going into the dungeons and if it weren't for the fact that some higher level items+character story progression required you to enter it I'd avoid it entirely.
>Avatarfagging schizo at it again
>>3463173>uglierI think a lot of the ugliness of Witcher 1 is due to the fact that the characters are poorly modeled. You can have a "gritty" and "dirty" game that still looks beautiful. Just look at Sekiro, or Dark Messiah.
>>3461987Why is every other post framed as a disingenuous question only a mentally challenged person would ask?
>>3463178>AvatarfaggingYeah, you should stop doing that.
>>3463186Take your meds and stop projecting your mental illness on this board
>>3463177>Its combat was dogshit.You just walk up to things and hit them. Are you retarded?
>>3463187Where's the avatar, moron? Imagine having an off topic mental breakdown every time someone posts anime, and then posting a tf2 image which is a game currently only played by mentally ill third world trannies and furries who are too bad at video games to play counterstrike.
>>3463179Oh, absolutely. I still think it added a lot of charm to the game though. Not everything has to be perfectly modeled. Weird geometries and shapes that do not conform to human anatomy can work better for creating this kind of atmosphere than strictly beautiful artistry.I fully understand that this might've been just a happy little accident rather than intentional design choice and I can imagine why someone would dislike it. I just personally like it and think it's a part of what makes the game special.
>>3463191The avatar is you constantly announcing your unwanted and frankly grotesque presence with forced anime images while spouting drivel about games you don't even play but desperately want to have a worthless opinion about, all the while posting delirious, Icycalm tier nonsense on top of copious amounts of buzzwords.You don't even know the difference between avatarfagging and reaction images, you constantly attack people based on the images they post as if they're related to what they actually like and make incredibly wild and passive aggressive remarks about complete strangers, which only point out how mentally ill and attention starved you are.You're not a human being, you're an infestation and frankly the single worst pseudo-internet personality on this goddamn website.
>>3462753And that was the last time it was relevant, too
>>3463202>IcycalmI don't even know what this is and I've been here since 2006. Is this an e-celeb you watch? >any post I don't like is avatarfagging because it just, uh, is>also I will now attach twitter reaction images for zoomers to all of my posts, to show how much I don't "avatarfag"Sounds like you might be the mentally ill one here, I dunno lol
>>3461987The real argument to be had is shit eaters versus people with standards, and these threads are bait distractions in which shit eaters thrive.
>>3463208See? You did everything I mentioned you'd do, as you always do after all, and somehow you also gloat about it and pretend to be le ebin oldfag while not even knowing who Icycalm is.You're a sad, sad joke of a person.
>>3463207Sure, if you ignore the fact that the best and highest-selling Ultima titles didn't release until over a decade later.
>>3463216>you don't know who my e-celeb is so you're wrong also here's a picture of a literal homosexual man from hollywoodAll you did was throw a tantrum because you couldn't respond to my on-topic RPG post lmao
>>3463220>1991>33 years agoNot helping your case
>>3463226>be wrong>move the goalpostsNice.
>>3463227The goalposts have stayed stillYou just moved three inches closer when you were three miles away to start
>>3462890>Dragon Quest fan to like E.Y.EI had a giggle because I do in fact like both of these games quite a bit. Regardless of if your game is eastern or western, I value RPGs with a high gameplay to story ratio. Both of those games generally let me play more than wait for story.
>>3463248>making wavesNot on my fucking watch.But you do have to admit that their game design couldn't be more far apart. Expecting a fan of one to like the other is like expecting a fan of chess to like first person shooters. Fully within the realm of possibility, but the intents of these two games couldn't be more different. There's absolutely zero guarantee that it'll happen since they have so little in common. I do like both btw, for the record.
>>3463262>But you do have to admit that their game design couldn't be more far apart.You don't know nearly as much about game design as you think you do.
>>3463264Explain what do these two have in common then.
>>3463221There's nothing to respond to, and I and many other people already demolished your nonsense over and over again in many other threads.You're not here to talk, you're here because you're a mentally ill sociopath starved for attention, and the only thing you can do is project your own mental illness on others and insult anything that doesn't fit with your incredibly narrow experience, while pretending you know more than you actually do.And on that last point, Dafoe is married and had kids, so again, stop talking about things you know nothing about, stick to your "blog" threads where you talk to yourself over and over.
>>3463266>I and many other people already demolished your nonsenseYou say this in every thread you have a mental breakdown in.
>>3463266>And on that last point, Dafoe is married and had kidshttps://youtu.be/LMRQb-RRt5gHe's an actual real gay guy. Like openly gay.
>>3462351>and look, it even uses Princess Mononoke as a basis!more apt equivalent would be using shinto/buddhist cosmology as a basis. mononoke is already more respectable than dnd but that though
>>3463230Cope some more.
>obvious bait thread>100+ replies
>>3463221No, he's right. Icycalm's bullshit was all over for ages. Nobody's talking about him because they like him, they're talking about him because his bullshit was inescapable if you were discussing RPGs back then. You're a poser.
>>3462362Japs love eating the same slop 10 times over.
>>3463608You already completely embarassed yourself. No need to samefag in an attempt to "downvote" me, thats not how an anonymous image board works.
>>3462018Based
>>3463291Being retarded, even ironically, is still shitposting.
>>3463166He wasn't samefagging. That was my post. You should learn to read obvious stylistic differences in writing before you accuse people of that shit. I just appreciate when someone gives my post a thoughtful response even if I don't agree with it. Yours on the other hand feels more like shit flinging than a genuine attempt at discussion. Not a big fan of you just tossing around the world objectively and stating your opinion as fact. I think you'd fit in better on /v/ personally. You're even using buzzwords like slop. People enjoy shit you don't. Is that such a revelation? I think most SaGa games are genuinely fantastic, and I personally haven't loved most falcon games I've played. Not saying there isn't value there though. Weird that you seem to be all about mechanical depth then praise reccetear. I loved that game but it's about as deep as a puddle.
>>3461990In a way. Japanese fans obsess way more over who the character designer is, for example. Can you even name a western video game artist, conceptual or otherwise? I only know one of the Skullgirls artists and it's for reasons other than her artistic merit.
>>3462671>looks pretty barren aside from one thingthat's literally OP's wrpg example
>>3463923>Can you even name a western video game artist, conceptual or otherwise?No, but neither can I name a single Japanese artist.>Mariel KinukoNo idea who she is.
>>3464618Varied =/= Compelling/interesting
>>3465535Everything in the first hour of Xenogears is interesting and compelling
>>3465523>No, but neither can I name a single Japanese artist.You are just extremely ignorant then, everyone at least knows one.
>>3465570>everyone at least knows one.Well I just proved you wrong.And actually, I was wrong, I can name one artist. John Tobias.
>>3465578>Well I just proved you wrong.You are the exception, though I do believe you are just willfully choosing to be ignorant when I said everyone knows at least one I meant the vast overwhelming majority of people
>>3465582Akira Toriyama is not a video game artist, he's just a regular artist. That's like calling a George RR Martin a video game writer.
>>3465586Tons of Japanese artist who worked on video games are known for doing a bunch of other things that aren't video games, even way before video games
>>3465589Like-wise with animation studios and comic book artists. Todd McFarlane was the lead art director for Kingdoms of Amalur.
>>3465592>Todd McFarlane was the lead art director for Kingdoms of Amalur.Really? I don't remember anything in that game looking nearly as cool as Spawn
>>3465568It's neither and Xenogears is an absolute dogshit.
>>3466623Nope.
>>3466623Wrong
>>3463923Jaime Jones, John Park, Khang Le, M.C. Barrett... Can't name any Japs. Honda Yamamoto or some shit.
>>3462048I was going to say this. Using an atelier game as a representative of all jrpgs is misleading. It’s peak coomer anime slop.
>>3461987Great, another thread made by a crpg fan talking shit on jrpgs…if you guys love your games so much why not play them and discuss why you like them instead of constantly obsessing over jrpgs?
>>3461987>OP's post
>>3462063>enter thread>notice I have a (You)>don't remember posting in this threadMeowdyI haven't played JRPGs in ages (FFXIV doesn't count) I'm just in a CRPG mood and want to talk about CRPGs.
>>3461987>Why do JRPG's lack artistic meritBecause you're cherry picking. I don't even like JRPG gameplay that much, but you can't say that historically they haven't had artistic merit. It's one of their greatest strengths.
>>3466670>>3466765Compelling argument.
