>>92608531
>Remember when Autist was a nature/demeanor?
That explains so much, actually.

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>TQ
No I started with V5

>>92608531
>TQ
Yes, and my autistic friend thought this was a confirmation that X canon character was real autist and wouldn't shut up about "representation".

Autism would be more of a derangement innit? Malkavian fuel.

>>92609359
>derangement
so you can cure it?

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>>92609533
Not if it's the og derangement. Except I think there's a rule stating malks can change it with ST approval because malks can do whatever the fuck they/the hivemind want.

Honestly it's depressing when you don't know how much of your personality is the diagnosis and how much is truly "you" when so many of the traits match up.

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VtM Wild West anon here, I'm genuinely curious, has anyone else ever tried their hand at running specifically a vampire wild west chronicle? I know of the Werewolf the Wild West supplement, and the one VtM Wild West supplement, but I'm curious if anyone else in this thread has tried running it before

Doing a Hunter the Vigel game with my players looking for Werewolf artifacts
The Silver Teeth of He Who Knashes
(Requires removal of all teeth to use)
The Twin Claws of He Who Gashes
>Costs 1-2 hands to use)
The (Still thinking) of He Who Bashes
(Wip)
3 members of the cult of Fenris who were erased from Garu history (Reason Wip)
Any suggestions or added perks/downsides

>>92610424
A wolf whistle that works like a dog whistle.

>>92610504
>The Howling Club of He Who Bashes
Now just have to think of a cost

>>92610562
Remove two fingers?

What's some of the supernatural items do you like to reward players
>Totem of a eaten saint
A bone carving made from an impossibly large rat bone of a man praying as rats consume his body, Nesting in knawed holes within his chest and stomach
Sets the player's agility to 3 "4 if they already have 3 Agility" if they ask for the saints help
Each time a rat vanishes from the Idol

I'm very glad that bloodlines and loresheets are now almost non existent in the new v5 releases because they defy Paradox's beautiful design philosophy.

I hope Muammar continues in his crusade in getting rid of problematic lore that defies WOD's Abrahamic foundations.

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Extra Thread Question: have you ever played a multi-splat game? if so how did it go? if not then would you want to?

Two related questions.

1. Let’s assume that for many and sundry reasons a coterie of neonates was aboard the Titanic. How would they survive to make it to America? For the sake of argument they definitely have no Disciplines above 3 dots and are limited to typical Camarilla clans and Disciplines.

2. Assuming you were a player in a vampire game set in 1912 and for some plot contrived reason needed to go to America from Britain, and your contact arranged for you to be smuggled over on the Titanic, how would you (the player) react, remembering that your *character* has no way of knowing what’s about to happen?

For the sake of argument the Titanic disaster isn’t going to be an “inside job”, it’s just an iceberg and ordinary human failings.

Also for the sake of argument the Storyteller isn’t necessarily opposed to changing history, but not by using future knowledge.

>>92611389
I've run multi-splat oWoD a couple of times, it's always a total fucking trainwreck. Each encounter just ends up being "Oh it's a fight? Werewolf will solo it. Oh it's anything else? Mage casts I win" But if you come in not taking it seriously and accepting it will be a garbage fire, it's quite fun. You just need to really accept that anything that challenges the Werewolf martially will completely body every other party member with ease, and that as soon as the Mage reaches 4 dots in a sphere it's fucking over.

I'm prepping a CofD mixed-splat game for the first time soon, I have higher hopes for that.

>>92611509
Vampires never get tired so you *could* swim back too shore and drag like a barrel with you that you hide in during the day.

or you could take the easier route and get aboard one of the rescue ships and see if you can lock yourself away where no one will go looking. Dominate and a large wad of (wet) cash would do wonders here. so you could say sneak aboard, find one of the crew members and use the cash too bribe them into showing you a good hiding place and then remove any memory of being handed the cash or showing you the spot. all they will remember is a gentleman who managed too swim towards the ship on his own...

>>92611509
Well, this depends
>If they are a young woman, they will get priority for the lifeboats
>If they are influential, they will get priority
Of the 2.2k people who boarded, 700 odd survived.
>A rescue boat arrived 3 hours after the sinking, at 4AM (before sunrise). Sunrise however was at 5AM, which gives the characters an HOUR to get on a proper rescue boat.
If they can't get onto a boat before 5AM they will need to dive into the ocean to survive, where they WILL enter Torpor. Luckily, vampires are dead and don't need to breathe, and can, theoretically, make it to shore, but will need to feed on local wildlife. Animalism helps tremendously here. If they can't get blood from animals they will fall into Torpor at the bottom of the ocean forever.

>>92611389
>have you ever played a multi-splat game?
Yes.
>if so how did it go?
It went well. People were mature enough to not starting PvP.

>>92611509
>2. Assuming you were a player in a vampire game set in 1912 and for some plot contrived reason needed to go to America from Britain, and your contact arranged for you to be smuggled over on the Titanic, how would you (the player) react, remembering that your *character* has no way of knowing what’s about to happen?

I would of course go on the boat and make no arrangments or plans for escaping it since I wouldn't need to :)

>>92605228
> dark, ambient music befitting the wild west.
Damn, forgot to answer that one, sorry.
Have you tried Wasteland 2/3's soundtrack?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wixaHSIcH84

>>92610171
There was a comic book that tried that a few years ago, need to dig the name back up.

>>92611580
>>92611592
Hey cool someone else who looked up dawn at the time.

Anyway so I see, theoretically, multiple in-universe solutions. So how about the second question - how do you, the player, react to the ST maneuvering the Chronicle into position to get you onto the Titanic?

>>92611695
>Have you tried Wasteland 2/3's soundtrack?
Oh this is fantastic, im adding it to the playlist i've got going so far

>>92611711
>how do you, the player, react to the ST maneuvering the Chronicle into position to get you onto the Titanic?
Personally, I as a DM, I would say don't maneuver. Tell the player straight what it is they're going to play. Makes for better games on average in my experience.
If you really want your gotcha twist to happen, though - think it will work for the better, I'd say change the names, dates, time, make the whole situation throw enough red herrings that the players can in retrospect see what you were doing - ie, the Titanic incident in your version of the WoD happened to another similar ship, in a slightly different time frame.

>>92611509
>Potence+Celerity rowing/leg kicks. Grab a lifeboat or sizable driftwood to sleep under
>Dominate/Presence an officer of a rescue ship
>Hug a rock & walk along the sea bed
>Earth Meld the seafloor
>Animalism pilot a whale from inside

Shits easy. If I had a character on the ship I would probably Jack some Rose type girl for shits & giggles.

>>92611592
>If they can't get onto a boat before 5AM they will need to dive into the ocean to survive, where they WILL enter Torpor. Luckily, vampires are dead and don't need to breathe, and can, theoretically, make it to shore,
Getting into a boat isn't enough, because boat doesn't provide sufficient cover from the sun, they need to get on another ship. (Or upturn the boat just before sunrise, effectively killing all kine inside).
As for going into the water, drowning isn't an issue because vampire, but freezing still is. And given region and weather at the time, it's a pretty big one.

Once characters know their ship is going under, I'd say Feed -> Blood Buff to 5 strength, 5 dexterity, 5 stamina -> feed again to top off and swim towards the nearest safe ship. SS Californian was about 10 miles away at the time decision to abandon ship was made (00:05 AM) and peak human swim speed is 8.8 miles per hour, meaning you can make it with plenty of time to spare.

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Daily games. World of darkness stuff only.

https://discord.gg/MWMEKARD

>>92611851

Was the Californian moving or just sitting still, that would significantly affect things.

>>92611842
Walking on he sea floor isn’t an option, not only because it’s mud you’d instantly sink into even under normal circumstances, but also because of the tremendous pressure. Even if a vampire can inhale enough seawater to avoid being pulped somehow, there’s still the immense weight of the ocean pressing down on them. At the Titanic’s depth it’s 5,500 psi (compared to about 15 psi at sea level). You’d need superhuman strength just to lift your arm, nevermind move in any meaningful way.

>>92610171
It's difficult to pull off considering the Wild West is all about frontiermanship and small isolated towns while Vampires are specifically urban predators.

>>92612142
Stationary at the time, they knew about the icefield and captain wasn't confident he can safely navigate through at night, so the ship was halted until dawn. Titanic even signalled them for help with flares, but it was misunderstood for fireworks.

>>92611579
You may be aware of this already do to it being common sense, but don't use mages in a CofD crossover. Also, be careful using stuff from Kith and Kin. 2e changelings are already very powerful, and Kith and Kin gives them more innate splat abilities that like Ravishing, are unresistable.

>>92611509
Movement of the Mind suddenly looks very nice. Specially when paired with Auspex 1 to find the nearest ship.

>>92611851
but how does your character know about the Californian?

Anyone seen the Amazon prime documentary? I’m about to turn it on.

What did I think of it?

>>92612620
never heard of it

>>92611509
>How would they survive to make it to America?
For the most part, they don't. The social ones would probably be able to get rescued with a few good rolls but it that would be incredibly iffy.

>>92612620
the one that came out when v5 was new? i think i have watched it, but it seems like i remember nothing of it

>>92611756
nta, but hey, just randomly got this recommended on youtube
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-D016eSXm4
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_jHX6QPB7Y&list=PLpas7-jjCh0YQ9R4KX_PKSQqd-g_BOL8B

haven't played the game, but the steam page says it's set in 1905 so the music might fit for your stuff

>>92612642
They just shit talked kindred the embraced so that was cool

>>92612620
I think you should take your shitty semester back to /tv/

>>92612736
My what? Are you drunk?

>>92611389
Yeah I have a homebrew thing I run that’s built to be multisplat. Works great. We do games almost every day.

Just last night I hunted a skinwalker with a werewolf ally while playing as a hedge mage.

i think earthbound are neat

but i need to stop throwing them into nearly every wod game i run

>>92612738
Lol
It was supposed to be meme but idk how my autocorrect messed it up

>>92612179
Become train conductor at night
suck people off like a homeless dude

>>92611509
I know you said Cam only, but I would actually love to see this happen to a Tzim. Sure he can Vicissitude his body to be a merman or some kind of cool vampire shark, hell he could grab some kine & mold them into a boat. Theres also stuff like turning into water with sorcery. But the real struggle would be keeping ahold of his gravedirt that's gotta cause him some panic.

>>92612179
There is a whole continent full of buffalo

>>92612947
Well the main reason I limited it to Camarilla only was because for all I know there’s some obscure aquatic bloodline with a Discipline that goes:

1. Swim at speedboat speeds
2. Survive crushing ocean depths
3. Extend these benefits to any number of vampires

So I just wanted to preclude that.>>92612947

>>92612974
i think the only water related "bloodline" (these guys aren't a true bloodline just gangrel who want to chill in water, if they embrace a surface dweller and keep him there he is just gonna be a gangrel) are the mariner gangrel and their entire thing is that instead of claws and night sight they get webbings and sonar as their first two protean dots technically you could argue that these guys are nominally camarilla as the 1992 is before the gangrel left, but i feel like "making sure our group has a gangrel adapted to the sea with us would be against the spirit of your question

>Survive crushing ocean depths
i know blood dimmed tides talks about it, but i don't remember how much fortitude you needed for which depth regardless i think the best way would be to turn into small animals if possible and hide on the rescue ships or try and anchor yourself to them from the outside

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Vampire Wild West guy.

You need to look at Johnny Cash

>>92612607
Lights from Californian were clearly visible.

>>92610171
I ran a game years ago that followed a Coterie that was managing, funding, and building a railroad (no I haven't seen Hell of Wheels or whatever that show was, everyone recommended it but I never got around to it) during 1862 with the backdrop of the American Civil War. Their general purpose was to connect various new cities for the Camarilla to provide a support network for Princes and assistance against the Sabbat. Their night-to-night was generally trying to ensure that work went smoothly and dealing with threats in the vast wilderness of the unchartered U.S., which included things like Werewolves, Sabbat, Wendigo (not the retarded garou tribe), desert spirits, bandits that would try to rob train during the day, etc.

Every few sessions they'd arrive at a small frontier town or a city and there would be other logistics and typical things to deal with, such as mortal sheriffs or the odd Kindred, like a Cappadocian that controlled a large swath of Domain that they had to placate in order to get the materials needed to construct a bridge that would allow them to continue their railway westward.

What kept the pace going was that there was two rival railroads being built across the U.S. at the time, the (real) Union Pacific Railway and the (fictional) Ironwater Railroad that was a joint effort between an exceptionally wealthy Lasombra and a few Anarchs. The idea was that whoever reached the west coast first would gain a firm hold of most of the country's vast natural wealth and the growing Kine population.

Anyone got full version of Book of Hungry Names? I really would like to see al arts. Amy Wilkins has such a lovely character design.

>>92613497
Bro, it was released today.
That being said, every Choice of games rpg eventually appears on piratebay.

>>92613331
Tertius "Tersh" Theophylaktos
Aka Saboru Tatsuya
Aka Trillion Dollars
Aka Triple Trey

>Stats
Strength 2
Dexterity 2
Stamina 2

Charisma 3
Manipulation 5
Appearance 2

Perception 2
Intelligence 3
Wits 2

>Talents Skils Knowledge
Subterfuge 5
Melee 5
Occult 5
Academics 3
Stealth 2
Etiquette 2
Investigation 2
Medicine 2
Craft 1

>Backgrounds
Generation 5
Herd 1

>Disciplines
Thaumatury 3 (Path of Blood)
Valerie 1
Vicissitude 1

Merits & Flaws
Hidden Diablerie
Unbondable
Enchanting Voice
The Eighth
Dark Secret

What do you guys think? He's gonna go heavy into Thaumaturgy & learn a few Paths. Max out his Valeren when he can & build up his Herd & Influences. I also think it would be cool for him to either learn Mirror Walk or the Path of Mercury so he can teleport. Once he can move around a bit he would focus on making a really secure Haven. If he ever gets found out & lives through the immediate confrontation, his plan is to bolt & take on a new persona. As always he will be trading favors to learn blood magic any way he can. Once he's powerful enough he's gonna start picking off the Tremere he can get a hold of, plus any Baali & anyone else he perceives as having "stolen" Saulot's power.

Not sure how he will fit in with the other players but he can take any disguise as a low rank nobody

>>92613497
Post some examples

>>92613133
anon habibi, you think im a fucking retard? of course i know johnny cash

>>92613598
Yeah, I know.
I was hoping to see if any anon here already bought so they could extract for me the pics. I just want the images, no need for the game.

Thread Question numero tres: so how does your character make money if they have any?

>>92614172
i am a vampire master of a major ghoul landlord

i couldn't figure out how to be more of a parasite

>>92614248
become Prince and then force the vampires with landlord ghouls to pay you rent thus making you a parasite of a parasite of a parasite

>>92614172
She just gets men to cover her expenses.

>>92614172
My ghoul gets her grandmother to give her some money.

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>>92614314
Forgot pic.

>>92614172
Robbing drug dealers and gang members
Not because he's a hero but because he can then sell those drugs and weapons for way more money than looting some nobody with only a debit card

>>92612151
>You’d need superhuman strength just to lift your arm, nevermind move in any meaningful way.
no, you idiot
the pressure is same from all directions
is this the legendary burger educeshion?

>>92614354
Funny enough my biggest joy in VTM is collecting cash
You wouldn't believe how many times I turn into the group piggy bank even if they were against me looting like we're playing Dnd
They change their minds when I come back with 3k from guns, gold rings, and credit card fraud to get us a new ride and equipment

>>92614354
Also, criminals are unlikely to report crime comitted against them to authorities.

>>92610171
It's not WoD but there's Dracula's America.

>>92612151
>You’d need superhuman strength
So a sizable portion of vampires then?
>>92613044
>water related "bloodline"
There were some Nos who lived in the Nile but it isn't the same.

>>92614442
>Also, criminals are unlikely to report crime comitted against them to authorities.
As a Floridian, not as much as you'd expect. I recently heard about a classic "officer, he sold me fake meth" case.

>>92614248
>>92614274
and then take the thrist of caine flaw so you are a vampire's vampire's and a landlord's lord's lord

fuck i am gonna do that for a npc

>>92614536
> So a sizable portion of vampires then?

Monumentally superhuman strength that can be sustained for potentially months of trudging through the sometimes hip-deep, sometimes much deeper mud of the bottom of the ocean. Again, we’re talking more than two orders of magnitude more pounds of force being exerted on every square inch of the body. And the assumption is we’re dealing with fairly typical Camarilla neonates with at most three dots in a Discipline.

Even a Strength 5, Potence 3 neonate isn’t going to be able to crawl more than maybe thirty feet before the blood runs out.

>>92614560
Quick google search on the topic suggest that as long as the amount purchased is less than 14 grams, buying meth in Florida is in fact not a crime.
(Florida Statute section 893.135(1)(f)(1))

>>92614405
> the pressure is same from all directions
No it’s not! It’s gigatons of water *on top of you*, constantly pushing you down. The water beneath you isn’t being pushed *up* from the Earth.

>>92614560
You know. I'd like to see a Breaking Vanp type character who starts dealing vitae laced meth with some ghouled punk kid

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>>92614652
>The water beneath you isn’t being pushed *up* from the Earth.
The water beneath you is being pushed up by the water above you. Fluid mechanics are funny like that. Deepwater je... fishes aren't particularly swole yet they can swim down there just fine.

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>>92614672
That's just pimpin with extra steps.

>>92614652
>>92614623
>>92612151
You're brain dead. Firstly, water pressure doesn't work like that & I don't see how any educated adult would think it did. Secondly, I said to go along the seabed, as in following along it, not trudging through it. Notice my wording difference when I talk about Protean. Thirdly, even if water somehow worked like you say, you could still swim at night on the surface & only dive deep when the sun comes up & sleep under a rock so you won't float off. Either way, I don't want to spend this whole thread arguing with another retard like the anarch fag in the last last thread, so kindly fuck off

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How big of a deal would it be for a Garou to look like a dog? as in how big of a social flaw should it be?
Would the Forsaken react any differently?

>>92614926
So are you just, like, perpetually trying to quit cigarettes and so constantly pissed off and confrontational due to nicotine withdrawal, or…?

‘Cause I’m more than willing to admit that I’m wrong on the water pressure thing but I’m intensely curious as to why you decided to make it personal.

>>92615100
How big of a social flaw probably depends on the kind of dog, but I’m willing to lay down money that it’s “a very big one” even if you’re a particularly lupine-looking dog like a husky or a particularly large and dangerous one like a Tibetan mastiff. To say nothing of it being something like a Shih Tzu, which isn’t as much of a meme as you think seeing as theyre pretty close to wolves genetically.

>>92615239
Mostly it's that you post a wall of text with surity & arrogance over the most brain dead & wrong positions one could take. I mean, I post one sentence & you feel the need to expound paragraphs of wrong unsolicited "facts" to check me. It's juvenile

>>92615445
>Mostly it's that you post a wall of text
Anon even a very long post on 4chan can comfortably fit on a smartphone screen AND I make regular use of paragraph breaks. I don’t think you know what “wall of text” means. And I pity any person who lacks the attention span to make it though an average of 400 words at most. I guess this is normal for kids raised on Twitter..

>over the most brain dead & wrong positions
“The Tremere aren’t a monolith” is neither braindead nor wrong, to start.

>It's juvenile
And opening a post with “you’re brain dead” is…?

>>92615100
>>92615342
that's a 1 dot advantage in W5

>>92615100
Most Garou don't even like Guise of the Hound, a Gift that makes lupus look like a dog. So a fairly major deal.

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>>92615100
A Metis that looks more like a dog could be fun. The Forsaken might think it a bit weird, and people who didn't like you might make fun of you, but there's a decent amount of variation among Forsaken as far as appearance goes. From what I remember, some in Africa look like African wild dogs or can even resemble hyenas at first glance.

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>>92615532
proofs

>>92615589
>why 'clement' tho
Fancy word for "mild". It's basically High Gygaxian writing.

Anyway, the fact that it's an advantage is probably down more to it making it easier to blend in around humans, rather than it having any effect on your social ability with Garou. Not really familiar with Werewolf (either version) but I'm imagining it being like if there was a V20 Nosferatu merit that let you have an Appearance of 1. You're a fuck ugly human but not an automatic Masquerade breach, so that's very advantageous when interacting with humans...but other Nosferatu are likely to hate your guts.

>>92615526
We're talking about swimming but good to know that you're the same anon. Let it go man, take the L.

>>92615589
>filename
Mostly because it means mild or merciful, and those work decently. I presume they didn't want to put dog in the name of the merit for some reason.
>>92615546
I think you are remembering the African Red Talons.
>>92615545
I forgot that was a thing.
>>92615342
I didn't consider the breed of dog but that would be relevant.

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>>92615662
>We're talking about swimming
No we're not, I explicitly said I was willing to admit I was wrong on that. We're talking about why you're so needlessly ornery.

>>92615678
>I didn't consider the breed of dog but that would be relevant.
Mind now I'm imagining a Garou that transforms into an Irish wolfhound. Y'know, the reason there are no wolves in Ireland. And would presumably be like twenty feet tall in Crinos.

So a lot of Dark Ages Salubri seem to be crusaders & such. But covering the third eye can really bug them to the point of distraction & penalties & they might need to activate powers that require it. So did warrior salubri have special three eyed helmets? I know a vampire doesn't exactly need a ton of protection, but having a helmet in battle is still a smart decision

>>92615634
>>92615678
It's fun when we get little ghosts of etymology & terminology float back up. Like, no one bats an eye to "inclement" weather, but doesn't realize the actual parts of the word as they relate to other things like "clement"

>>92615678
>I think you are remembering the African Red Talons.
They do to, but I double checked The Rage, and some Forsaken do look like African wild dogs or have coats that resemble spotted hyenas.

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>>92615732
I think there are a few helmet styles that would work for them but they would be out of place in the crusades for the most part.

>>92615750
Or words like "understand", which has nothing to do with standing under anything (and yes, the ultimate etymology is indeed a compound of proto-Germanic for "under" and "stand"). The word comes from some metaphor that's been completely lost to time.

Kiteo, his eyes closed.

>>92614172
My current mini-campaign character is a mercenary. He's being paid 30 pounds a day (in 1918), so he'll gladly shoot weird ape-men in the jungle for that.

As for my last long-running campaign, she was OLD money, so had a massive trust fund to work with. But she isn't the type to rest on her laurels, so got a lot of additional money from her real estate and development company, leveraging her connections in D.C., as well as her Ventrue clan connections to have a constant leg up in the field.

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>>92615732
>>92615800
Crusader helmets had so many holes punched in them, and the eyes were small anyway, I don't think a small vent in the forehead would raise too many eyebrows (pun intended)

>>92615760
Thanks.
>>92615729
Something something wyrm corruption. Now that I think about it Dog would have an odd large brood for a non triad spirit.

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https://youtu.be/b5dE3vxWP9E
The technocrats are automating the hunter's jobs.

>>92615826
>He's being paid 30 pounds a day (in 1918)
BLOODY HELL, who the fuck has that much money to toss around in 1918 for a mercenary? You're getting paid, like, seventeen times what a lieutenant-colonel in the Royal Engineers would have been at the time.

>>92614172
I just bum around the chantry.

>>92614172
>so how does your character make money if they have any?
We sell fancy booze, fuel, tea and other valuable liquids.

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>>92615832
>>92615800
I like the look of a sallet, I imagine adding a vertical slit would be easy.

Also salubri sallet is fun to say

>>92615729
Cause ya ugly. But more than that, it's because ya mommas ugly too

>>92616042
Also keep in mind WoD is alt history, there is zero reason the Salubri couldn't surreptitiously encourage an unconventional helmet style if it still mostly fit in.
Ironically, a cut in the helmet shaped like a cross would work best, as long as you don't go full Mandalorian.

>>92615928
Here's $50, my good kindred.

>>92616103
... no, you don't understand, I-I work here... actually you're right thank you very much sir.

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>>92616083
Like a sugarloaf with a decorative slit

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About to start a W5 chronicle because my friend bought it at a con booth and wants to run it while we take a hiatus from our main game.

I got permission to play a character concept I'm excited about (frontman in a politically sketchy metal band) but the Allies advantage costs an arm and a leg. Do you think I could spin dots in Fame and Resources to also represent bandmates that I can call on? Am I being a bad player/munchkin/whatever for not wanting to burn resources in a deliberately low-powered edition and should just suck it up?

Question, what's a good way to write the sabbat in a campaign that's trying be a bit lighter in tone but still have them be nuanced. my players are all new and i don't wanna say "yeah you find the giant flesh pit that the sabbat made out of captured women" cuz A: its a bit much and B: i cant really justify how the sabbat hide all their atrocities without the NSA killing them all.

>>92617384
Funny joking Blood Brothers stooges & "Disney" villain shenanigans not psychopaths

>>92615907
Pentex, if my theory about where the game is going is correct.

the ST never liked Were-Apes being a mockery breed only so we're being sent deep into the congo to kidnap Wereapes in order to start creating the Yeren.

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New/updated merits and flaws for Clanbook: Caitiff. Thoughts?

>>92617350
Just make the band mates retainers because that's the easiest way to represent a group that small in a worth while manner.
>>92617384
If you want to make them less grimderpy, you can just style their brutality after South American Cartels. Making the fleshpits and such are examples to keep other mortal servants in line as well as shits and giggles.

>>92617556
Looks alright.

>>92617556
Looks good.
A few points:
-getting 3 Favored disciplines is a bit odd, I'd limit it to one- but that's just taste, I guess.
-I'd just delete the part about non-caitiff taking "New bloodline". Otherwise it's a 7+ point merit that sometimes does less for the PC himself than Additional discipline (assuming you don't change the clan weakness). Just passing it on to your kids is not worth it.

>>92617595
>Just make the band mates retainers because that's the easiest way to represent a group that small in a worth while manner.
You mean Kinfolk? I thought about that

>>92612396
I already allowed Mages in the game, and it also seems the majority of players want to play one. So fuck it we ball I guess. Looks like Trainwreck is back on the menu, but we'll see.

>>92617655
>-getting 3 Favored disciplines is a bit odd
Yeah, I was iffy on it anyway. The idea was that you can essentially make yourself a one-vampire clan, but that does kind of defeat the one real "weakness" that Caitiff have.

>Just passing it on to your kids is not worth it.
Probably you're right. The idea I was pursuing is a mechanical way of explaining how Clans get new bloodlines like City Gangrel with different clan Disciplines, though I suppose it doesn't really need explanation.

>>92617693
Good luck. It might work out, but sometimes it can turn into this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFuMpYTyRjw

>>92617683
>You mean Kinfolk? I thought about that
probably. just make them two 2 dot retainers and be done with it, because this shit is just annoying.

>>92617749
Have you read the 3 dot merit called Revenant Disciplines (from Lore of the Clans) that lets you get very creative with your clan disciplines? Fuck, the Revenant Weakness flaw talks about getting the flaws of "lost or destroyed" line, which I take to be "be happy and invent some shit".
I think they are mechanically close to what you have in mind.

>>92615732
I was thinking maybe have the eye slit be in the shape of a cross but the upper portion is elongated, or just wear leather caps instead

>>92617350
>three dots still only get you worthless people that show up half the time or take half a day
jesus christ

>>92618217
I know why they changed it but you might as well restrict it at character creation instead of making it so shit it doesn't make sense to ever have it.
The fact that they still have Retainers as busted as they are is also fucking bizarre.

Been mulling over some weapon related shenanigans

If I enchant a blade with Wielding the Spear of Damnation, could I theoretically diablerize the victim through the weapon, if they didn't have much blood left?

If I enchant a blade with Verdant Blade & Ward vs Kindred/Vitae/both, & stab a kindred in the heart, would the auto-damage of the ward kill them without them being able to stop it since they are paralyzed?

Would Deflection of the Wooden Doom stop a Verdant Blade?

Would a weapon enchanted with a Ward vs Technology unmake modern body armor?

>>92618217
it means you must gather them ahead of time

>>92617350
>W5
I'm so sorry for you.

And the answer is no. They wouldn't count as Allies, but rather some sort of "entourage" of fans or people who helps you administrate your career. They are people who like you and your employees. They'll do less than Allies will do.
I know that because that's what me and my player did for his Nosferatu VTuber in V5.

Also, does your ST allows you to buy Loresheets from Vampire? Because there are some LS there who are easily adaptable for W5 and very neutral. I advise you to buy "Kindred Social Media". It can match your concept and it's real good.

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>>92618619
>If I enchant a blade with Wielding the Spear of Damnation, could I theoretically diablerize the victim through the weapon, if they didn't have much blood left?

diablery needs more than draining someone full no? you also need to want to drain the soul after all the blood is gone and then win a check against it

so i would say probably not especially because it's only a 3 dot ritual, but i wouldn't be against a player character trying to make a higher level version of the ritual that could do that (and hurt souls and thus stuff like wraiths etc)

>If I enchant a blade with Verdant Blade & Ward vs Kindred/Vitae/both, & stab a kindred in the heart
you usually can only use one ritual enchantment per item if you put a second on it it either replaces the first or crumbles to dust

>Would Deflection of the Wooden Doom stop a Verdant Blade?
yeah it's still a wodden stake

>Would a weapon enchanted with a Ward vs Technology unmake modern body armor?

there is no ward against technology ritual, it's existence page 102 of rites of blood is false information on the wiki, there is only a warding circle ritual ('cause it's not a tremere ritual who all double as both wards and warding circles but it a Inconnu ritual) and that would only work if the body armor has mechanical parts

>into which technology (i.e. any machine more complex or advanced than a crossbow) cannot passwithout shattering or becoming defunct.

so those new fancy exoskelletons yes, kevlar armor no

also the user of the technology get's a check if the tech is destroyed or just defunct while in the warding circle

>In 1627 B.C., the volcanic island of Thera erupted. Foolish scholars try to link it with everything from the Exodus to Atlantis, when it was simply what it was — a tremendous eruption, spewing ash and dust around the world. The sea recovered quickly enough, but many coastal havens suffered. In the wake of the eruption, something like a third of our clan chose to seek better feeding and opportunity elsewhere.
The Antediluvian made one of its periodic great wanderings at this time, returning centuries later with the childe Montano,whose name we associate with the foolishness of honor.

How can Montano be the eldest?

>>92619740
easy either the inuniverse legends you just been told is wrong or montano was embraced before but wasn't resting at the place that would become sicile

>>92619759
Zarathustra was embraced by one of these scattering Lasombra in 330 BCE so it must be true. The one way to have it make sense is to have Montano embraced before 1627 BCE but have him be unknown to the rest of the clan before then. I feel like this is forced

>>92619791
but it's not unheard of the oldest two 4th gen tzimisce the main clan also just didn't know about for example because their 3rd gen liked to travel just like [lasombra] did so everyone assumed that dracon was the oldest 4th gen tzimisce and dracon himself only knew that this wasn't true, but no more details than that

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You know, for being a guy who did the impossible (forced a major sect to acknowledge Caitiff as a serious thing; arguably this makes him a contender for that "Caitiff Prince" thing that Noddists fear at least as much as Mukhtar Bey or Sarrasine if we just interpret "prince" to be less literal), there really is shockingly little information on Joseph Pander. Literally the only thing that's ever said about him is just the stuff directly related to the Third Sabbat Civil War and the founding of the Panders; we don't know his age, generation, what he did for the Sabbat to become Priscus, nothing. He even only has one, count it, *one* piece of official art, for the card game, which makes him into some vaguely Kurt Cobain meets Billy Idol looking guy (which makes sense for a game made and set in the '90s, but Pander was active at least as far back as that Third Civil War in the late '50s).

I mean on the one hand it means that I get to make up all the stuff I want for him for Clanbook: Caitiff, but on the other hand it's kind of weird that I've got more information about Louis Pasteur in the WoD than I do about Pander.

>>92619940
He's actually some Baali playing the long con.

>>92619940
>there really is shockingly little information on Joseph Pander.

i read somewhere that this was on purpose because the idea was that the guy isn't actually real that he is a fabrication made the panders to give themselves a supposed leader and fake face for their ideology and that the pander name was originally a lasombra thing which was meant to say they are pimping out these guys

but i am pretty sure it was a wog on one of the old rpg forums (something awful maybe?) however so not really canon

>>92619940
For purposes of prophecy, I would pick the guy actually severing the bonds of clan to be most offensive to elders. Sucks that's the only thing I know about him.

>>92619940
God I hate WoD names.

>>92619929
So are you suggesting Montano is older than 1627 BCE or that there are Lasombra older than him or possibly both?

>>92610171
My very first WoD game was a Werewolf Wild West game, and it wasn't using any of the supplements. We didn't even know they existed. it was Forsaken 1e.

I wouldn't know where to start with a Vampire Wild West game

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>>92619987
I mean I can buy that to some extent, but I think it's more fun if he's an actual guy. Pic is the art I'll be using for him.

>>92619985
That would be kind of funny because Sarrasine (the Prince of Sydney) is publically a Caitiff but secretly tells his closest confidants that he's a Toreador, when actually he's a Setite. So it would mean the only genuine known Caitiff in a position of real power is Mukhtar Bey...and he's been convinced by Gehenna fanatics to invite Caitiff to Cairo so they can all be slaughtered.

Man, it really does *suck* to be a Caitiff

>>92619987
That sounds like a whole lot of nothing as a plot point or the writers just admitting that they had no idea what to do with the guy.

>>92620005
I mean there was at least one real, actual person in history named Joseph Pander; he's among the first results for a Google search for the name.

https://www.ancestry.com/genealogy/records/joseph-pander-24-lctkq1

Born in Jugoslavia in 1898. Lived to the ripe old age of 92 before passing away in Connecticut in 1990.

No, I'm not gonna make this real guy into WoD's Joseph Pander, that would be ghoulish. Though it does at least tell me that "Pander" is a Slavic name, which gives me stuff to work with.

>>92620027
>Man, it really does *suck* to be a Caitiff
It's supposed to.
Not gonna lie, I don't even see why most wouldn't just fuck off to less populated areas if they can.
Every sect offers a whole lot of nothing to the Caitiff so why the fuck would they would join or stay once they realized how big of a scam it is and how little enforcement most cities have.

>>92620010
Montano if we go with his backstory is way way older than 1627 BCE the statement that he was embraced "when the first tribes of men migrated to Europe" would put the date of his embrace between 130000 and 115000 years ago... if wod wouldn't be a young earth that is only around 10000 years old so how hold exactly he is we don't know (same as for any 4th gen lasombra not named gratiano actually) but we have several non character statments that he is the oldest lasombra, a statment from himself that he tried to teach his siblings abilities that they couldn't learn because of age and the narration of the second lasombra novel consistently just calls him the eldest (lasombra) instead of his name because montano is not his actual name after all

as to why he wasn't in europa during that time who knows, but someone had to sire the Xi Dundu and montano is also known to take century long walks himself

>>92620062
>I mean there was at least one real, actual person in history named Joseph Pander
I know Pander is an actual name, it just doesn't make it sound any less retarded or mocking. It's like the writers are going "fuck you for wanting to play a Caitiff in a normal game with the Sects and shit, it's not like 99% of vampire games are centered around their conflicts"

>>92620076
I mean I can think of one reason why Caitiff try to stick to large cities even if they're full of vamps that hate them. As outlined by Clanbook Toreador Revised...

>Picture an eight-foot-tall shag carpet soaked with blood: yours. Add in a self-enforcing Masquerade that makes every mortal who sees one start gibbering and hallucinating about chainsaw-toting maniacs, gangbangers, rogue cops or whatever urban legend works best. Now make it so that every time you hurt one, it heals quicker than you can say "Oh shit, you're not going to tear me *another* new asshole, are you?"
>Congratulations. Now you have some slight inkling on what Lupines are like.

I have to admit that I do love in VtM:Bloodlines that when the werewolf shows up, if you've cheated to have god mode on, the werewolf *can still damage and kill you*. I wish that if you turned on noclip, *it* turned on noclip.

>>92620111
Honest question, is WoD supposed to be an young earth setting? they flip flop around and use what's more convenient to whatever the fuck they are writing at the moment.
And no, mage composite consensus bullshit is not a good justification.

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>>92619987
well the pimping stuff is in the actual books (the first lasombra clan book to be exact) and i guess you could say it's notable that he isn't mentioned when the lasombra explains the supposed origin of the term, but it feels like a reach to me to say he doesn't exist based on that alone unless someone finds that forum post

>>92620111
When does it say that he was embraced when "the first tribes migrated?"
Never seen it besides on the wiki.
If Montano is from like 10000 BCE it would surely solve the issue and it would confirm that in 1627 Lasombra simply went to get Montano and take him to Sicily or whatever. Also there is a Lasombra 4th gen named Tubalcain and usually biblical names of the same period (Zillah, Japheth, Jubal, Lamech and so on) belong to First/Second City vampires.

>>92620143
I think of it this way: if you're a vampire of sufficient age then you start losing reasons to distinguish between seconds and seasons in your memory. You remember something happened to you "ages ago" but honestly can't recall if "ages ago" means like ten years back or a hundred years back because it's all the same to you. Particularly if you're VERY old and lived at a time when the world just didn't change all that much from decade to decade or even century to century. 1900 AD to 2000 AD saw ludicrous changes to the world...2000 BC to 1900 BC, though, and the world was basically the same at the start as the end. Like sure some kingdoms rose and fell in that time, but that doesn't really matter. To say nothing of 19,000 BC to 20,000 BC. Like yeah a thousand years passed but what actually CHANGED besides a few names and faces among the mortals?

The point being that the elder vampires genuinely don't know the true age of the world because they just can't recall how long ago some of the really old stuff is. Not that they'd ever openly admit that since it sounds like they're going senile. So instead they make grand proclamations like "when the first tribes of men came to Europe", which may be an outright lie, or may just mean that they're talking about one particular tribe that they remember and ignoring the people who were already in Europe, or whatever.

TL;DR - don't know, and can't be known, because every one of the narrators from that time are pretty much innately unreliable.

>>92620143
depends on the game lines i guess
from vtm's perspective yes, it's hinted that Japheth is the biblical Japheth, son of noah etc because he is nicknamed the faithful son and has special abilities unrelated to vampiric disciplines that most fans assume come from his status as antediluvian human which would put the flood between 7,248 BCE and 7,225 BCE

werewolf meanwhile has dinosaurs as having been existed millions of years ago


and Demon of course goes: both are true because of phases just like how adam and eve also been a horde of monkeys at the same time because that's how the world used to work before the fall, back then my coffee cup could also be a song

>>92620114
It's funny how the lupines are supposed to act like a video game invisible wall.
Just imagine taking a buss to the next town over and the second you are outside city limits every other passenger assumes Crinos form and kills you for leaving the play area.

>>92620184
i think it comes from this

"The closest thing he had to living kin are the occasional Africans whose genes hinted at the legacy of intermarriage back in the age of migrations, and those were mere accidents of appearance. The way he thought and felt, hoped and dreamed, were quite alien to modem humanity. Others called the eldest “Montano,” and he accepted that name. It was not his, but he knew it referred to him and that sufficed. " which is from the first chapter from the second lasombra book which has this

"drifting down into the Abyss without the
complications of projecting flesh and blood into that negative space.
Back in the ages when he associated regularly with others of his lineage, he’d sometimes tried to teach this art to the handful of individuals he respected, but it never worked. This particular ability apparently came only with age, and no other Lasombra-apart from the founder, before the great revolt-was yet as old as Montano was when he mastered it"
no lasombra right now is as old as montano was when he got his 9th dot in obtenebration for the first time

>>92620239
The danger is probably overstated to some extent, especially if you're running Vampire as being "the" splat, and werewolves and mages and faeries and so on don't exist on equal terms with them (i.e., there's no Gaia/Wyrm/whatever nonsense, just a bunch of angry awooos, and like half of them might actually be Gangrel).

On the other hand even if going out into the woods only had like a 1 in 10 chance of having yo run into a Lupine, if that one Lupine was capable of tearing apart five or six vampires before going down, and then you learn that *that* level of fuck-you-up is what werewolves get at *entry* level, it's their equivalent of a 13th generation neonate...

>>92620221
>and Demon of course goes: both are true because of phases just like how adam and eve also been a horde of monkeys at the same time because that's how the world used to work before the fall, back then my coffee cup could also be a song
Amen to that, my friend. Amen to that.

>>92620280
So Montano is supposed to be "Vasilisa old" and Tubalcain is just "Japheth old" and in 1627 BCE Lasombra just went to get Montano and introduce him to his brothers and by then he was already 10.000 years old.

As with everything that goes that far in the past it rarely makes sense putting one next to the other but its better than nothing.

>>92620300
>The danger is probably overstated to some extent
Yeah, I'm just nitpicking at the things you are just supposed to accept.

To the Caitiffanon, I got a question: What do you think on V5 approach of "Caitiff is the nurturing big brother for the Thin-Blood"?
They tried hard on V5 Player's Guide to make both types as a third pseudo-sect option.

>>92620076
>It's supposed to.
I wish people remembered this more. They normaly go for Caitiff or Thin-Blood for "cool powers" and ST doesn't tend to roleplay any challenge for them at all.

>>92620353
personally i also find the statment that the guy just didn't embrace till he fully maxed out his clan discipline to be very weird and it's not like you can say it's because his own embrace was so tragic because well montano does not even remember his own embrace, does not believe the story his sire liked to tell about it (which is the commonly known one where he sacrificed his tribe to his sire) and he has childer

but it's in the book so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ if asked white wolf would probably just point towards this
>"The way he thought and felt, hoped and dreamed, were quite alien to modem humanity"
and say muh alien mindset

>>92620421
The problem with the Caitiff is that most of them have no real reason to engage with the Cam or Sabbath once they have vampire 101 knowledge, so players have no reason to play them unless you handwave a lot of shit as to why would they even get involved in their machinations.

>>92619621
>Kindred Social Media
looking that over it definitely could be re-flavored to suit my concept so I'll pitch it if he doesn't like the Kinfolk idea.

And yeah I'm not super stoked on the edition but don't really have the heart to shit on it to my friend

>>92620551
The only thing you need to re-flavor is substituting "Kindred" for "Garou". It's a pretty neutral loresheet.
Also, Chicago by Night V5 supports players and ST on the idea of re-flavoring and adapting some loresheet. If you liked, for instance, Annabelle Loresheet, you can always make this loresheet of a local Werewolf loresheet and any instance of "Chicago" just substitute for "Your City".
Many people tend to forget that.

>>92620421
> What do you think on V5 approach of "Caitiff is the nurturing big brother for the Thin-Blood"?
Chiefly, I don’t; I’m not familiar at all with V5. This isn’t due to any rah-rah-shishkoombah edition war thing so much as that I’m mostly familiar with Revised Edition, and V20 is basically just R.5 edition, while V5 represents some pretty hefty rules and setting and tone changes. I will say that there’s stuff I’ve spotted in V5 that I like (hunger dice; what happened to the Tremere which I think allows players to make more varied Tremere characters), but I’m just not familiar enough with it, and am mostly sticking to my comfort zone for now and for the foreseeable future.

Not helping matters is that I think I’ve got a skewed perception of Vampire compared to most fans; it was always described as Gothic-Punk, but I feel like most VtM fans lean a little more towards the “gothic” aspect while I’m definitely more towards the “punk” side of things. Like a lot of people’s go-to movie references for VtM are stuff like Interview with the Vampire, Bram Stoker’s Dracula, and Underworld, whereas my go-to touchstone movies are The Lost Boys, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and Fright Night (either one).

(Not that I don’t like the more dramatic ones; Interview, especially, is fantastic)

>>92620027
It does seem like Toreador and Brujah would be the easiest Clan to fake as long as you had one of their your Clan Disciplines.

What does it cost to raise an attribute to 1?

>>92621553
You start with 1. Nosferatu can’t raise appearance from 0, so the question doesn’t have an answer.

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Why is the boon merit so fucking vague?
1 to 6 dots but no fucking references of what's appropriate for each dot? Come on!
I was trying to make a Coomer question but now I'm just pissed at whomever the fuck wrote this shit.

>>92621623
I am asking that because there is a flaw, "monstrous" that lowers you appearance to 0 without capping it.
There are some other cases like recovering from Vicissitude.

>>92621388
Assuming you’re trying to fool a member *of* the Clan you’re masquerading as, then the only ones that are hard are the ones with obvious visual or physical cues - Nosferatu, Lasombra, Giovanni, and Gangrel of a certain age (since it’s impossible to believe they avoided rages for *that* long). Also fluff usually says the Malkavians can tell on sight that a Caitiff is really a Caitiff and not another Malkavian, even though there’s no hard and fast mechanical thing to back that up.

Otherwise you don’t really need much since there absolutely exist, say, Tremere who don’t learn Thaumaturgy, or Tzimisce who don’t learn Vicissitude, or Assamites who don’t learn Quietus, etc. how you gonna tell an ordinary kleptomaniac Caitiff from a Ravnos, or one who just doesn’t like bright lights from a Setite?

But yeah, Brujah is overwhelmingly the easiest, since there is no possible way to tell how hard it was for a given vampire to avoid a rage, and most vampires go out of their way to avoid raging anyway (including Brujah). Toreador is easy too to an extent, some beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I feel like it’s easier to slip up there.

>>92621659
It costs [current rating] x 4, of course. By the same logic of taking Monstrous but then noting that it’s not capped at 0, the XP chart doesn’t give a minimum value for [current rating]. So per RAW it costs you literally nothing to raise it from 0 to 1.

Mind, also per RAW the Storyteller has absolute control over whether or not you can raise any given trait (the intention, presumably being to make sure that you can’t for example go ten sessions without using Presence once and then expect to be allowed to dump XP into it to raise it from 1 dot to 3), so a Storyteller is within his rights to flat refuse you raising your appearance from 0 if you’ve done nothing to suggest that it should be raised.

>>92620460
Well it could be that he just didn't want to make a childe until he felt he had something to teach them, & you can't teach someone unless you are a master. Not to mention, old school vamps were pretty prohibitive on sirering new vamps. It's mostly the post-AD vamps that make the most vamps.

>>92621641
What's the coomer question?

>>92621659
Getting rid of the flaw is the same cost as the flaw, most often

>>92617350
That’s kind of a weird middle ground as far as merits go. Playing gigs almost always have financial incentives but are usually a deeper bond than mere workplace acquaintances. And there’s nothing in W5 merits for Kinfolk allies, it goes straight from normies to Garou mentors with no middle ground because the devs are tards that don’t even like Werewolf, and you’re right those rules as written are worthless.

Just have an honest talk with your ST and offer some drawbacks to it.

>>92621659
Even though it's not explicitly stated to be capped at zero it is until the Flaw is bought off. It's just not permanently stuck at zero the way a Nossie is.

>>92622325
There are no Kinfolk in W5. They got rid of all breeding mentions because it's "problematic" and what you have now are "Kin" which are people who are at verge of First Change. It's now a mystery how someone becomes a werewolf. Only exception is the weird Silver Fangs families which their logic is "a good amount of Garou emerge from this family. There must be something in them to make this happen more frequently..."

>>92617350
If you want something other than Allies, go for Retainers 2+ as suggested previously. If you also want something related to "gig money", I advise you to get this Merit right here, on V5 Player's Guide p. 119-120:
>SIDE HUSTLER (••)
>Folks on the fringes constantly have to grind to keep the little that they have. Juggling a million tasks, favors, and debts has become second nature to them.
>Once per session you can get your hands on an item, a piece of information, or access to an event as if you had two dots in the appropriate Resources, Contacts or Influence Background. (Items obtained with Resources likely have to be returned intact.) Often this requires you to spend part of the night calling in markers and pressing your informal network.

Please, note this Merit can be bought by anyone, meaning your Woof can get it as well.

>>92622950
That’s under the assumption that V5 merits are allowed.

>>92623013
V5 Player's Guide made a list of Merits who could be bought by Humans, meaning these a netural merits which can be bought by everyone no matter the splat. You should talk to your ST about letting those be applied.

>>92619656

>you usually can only use one ritual enchantment per item if you put a second on it it either replaces the first or crumbles to dust


Is there a page number that says that? Splinter Servant & Shaft of Belated Quiescence say they are specifically mutually exclusive which would imply that otherwise multiple Rituals would stack.

>>92620239
That's kind of how I use them as an ST. Lupines aren't an enemy faction like Anarchs or even the Sabbat. No, Garou are geography. Garou controlled territory is an inhospitable barrier like mountains, desert, or a large river. You can cross it with preparation and the right tools, but even then it's dangerous and if you have to venture in there for some reason you want to get out quickly.
In other news, my next game is tomorrow and my players have decided they need to retrieve intel which is located inside of contested territory between the local Gangrel and Garou. Let's see how they handle meeting their first Bone Gnawer.
>>92621724
Malks are probably one of the best and worst clan to masquerade as. On the plus side you can be a little weird and nobody minds. However, you're not part of the cobweb and Malkavians *know* that deep down when you try to pretend in front of them. If you want a gameplay mechanic for it, just have the Malk roll on Auspex.

I swear to God, if I hear another Brujah whinge about Carthage, I'm going to lose it.

>>92623335
The real trick is that even if the Malks know, they might not do anything about it…immediately. Plenty of Lunatics are pretty lucid most of the time and can play political games with the rest of them.

“Hey kid, I’ll cut to the chase: I know what you’re doing. Don’t worry, I won’t tell the Scourge…as long as you do what I say from now on. How are you at horticulture? I require a shrubbery.”

I need some tips to defend my haven

>>92623428
Spam their inbox with salt gifs.

>>92623446
go play nice to your friendly neighborhood Nosferatu

Troile was the buttboy for a Baali

>>92623446
From what? In general Nos will keep you posted but defense needs blockades, traps or a few Ghouls

>>92623439
The doctrinal prank on a PC would be if they take that deal, the Cobweb draws more Malkavians to notice and independently extort them.

>>92623446
Ask for a minor boon exchange from the vampire who owns the police to have a few officers patrol the area or someone who has connections to a gang

>>92623446
Try to keep your haven in a nice part of town, the one where the police response times would be very short, and where any violent acts happening would make the news.

It creates a massive opportunity cost for enemies attacking you, regardless of how well defended the haven is in the first place.

>>92623428
Honestly, I have no idea how the young Brujah stomach it. Hearing your elders bitch about some shit that happened before Christ to this very night would be maddening. Get over it, you lost. Try something new.

>>92620239
It's a weird choice honestly, and I'm not the biggest fan. You shouldn't need to create an excuse for why the players stay in the city and don't just fuck off to be a small town pseudo-Prince. You should always make characters that fit the story, and a story that fits the characters.

Plus as a concept it holds up a lot less once Werewolf became its own actual splat. The Garou Nation is slowly going extinct and definitely has better things to do than try and find Carl the 13th generation Caitiff.

>>92623789
>I have no idea how the young Brujah stomach it.
Probably roughly the same way Tzimisce do whenever Vykos is in town and starts whining about Constantinople and Michael.

>>92623857
Leeches are inherently Wyrm-tainted

>>92623858
At least Vykos might do something interesting like start throwing penises.

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>>92623789
>when it's been 4 hours and the elder is still yapping about Carthage

>>92623335
The biggest problem with the being an impediment to travel is werewolves aren't everywhere and don't know everything. It's like people expect werewolves to sit around on the highway like traffic cops and have a reliable way to detect a vampire driving in a car.

>>92623924
And the Brujah might do something like team up with Caine in order to push the Kuei-Jin, Camarilla, and Sabbat from Los Angeles.

See? There is balance.

>>92624026
>Bloodline protag
>Canon Brujah

No, that's cringe.

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>>92623938

>>92623446
Fleshcraft yourself some alarms that scream when the intruders step on them, craft a few fresh Szlachta and post them near the entrances, and make sure the Vhozd in the basement is fed but hungry just in case.

>>92623446
build it underwater you don't need to breathe

>>92624090
I’m not taking about the protagonist. I’m not talking about Nines or Damsel or Skelter either. Did you already forget Smiling Jack’s clan?

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Just because I can't afford more dots in Looks doesn't mean my character isn't beautiful!

>>92624730
>I've run out of XP
>Billions must die

>>92624535
Jack's plan doesn't work in the Camarilla or Kuei-Jin ending though. Using a game with multiple choice endings isn't a good example of Brujah being cool.

>>92624730
It's cool, bro. You'd still be the best looking guy in the sewers.

>>92623938
Ask him about the blood pits.

>>92624882
The Gehenna novelization has some lines to the effect of the canon ending being either Anarch, Lone Wolf, or You Opened It. The status of the protagonist isn’t known, but the Camarilla. Sabbat, and Kuei-Jin definitely lost control of the city.

Granted that’s in the original timeline before V20 started up and invalidated the Gehenna novel, but until I hear a good reason to think otherwise I’m gonna act on the assumption of one of those three endings is still canon.

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>>92624730
>Strength 3+
>Stamina 3+
>Charisma 3+
>Appearance 1
>Merit: Huge Size
>notewothy skills: Intimidate, Brawl (specialization: Grapple)
I dare you to tell me this isn't viable character foundation in any WoD splat.

>>92625176
Oh also some further research (Beckett’s Jyhad Diary) establishes that as of V20, Nines Rodriguez is the Baron of LA. So Anarch ending confirmed as canon in V20 timeline and thus probably V5 as well.

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>>92625251

>>92625176
>>92625280
I really disliked both the Gehenna novel and BJD personally.

Hell BJD may be possibly my least favorite metaplot update until V5 rolled around.

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>>92622287
I think he meant The Question if he was a coomer. Maybe he hates Pentex-subsidized evil aglets.

>>92625317
I mean I don’t necessarily disagree. But not liking a thing doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, at least not when we’re not actually sitting at a table. You can change whatever you like for your sessions and your take on the WoD, but you shouldn’t be bringing that to threads where we’re discussing stuff as-published.

That way lies “headcanon”, and I don’t truck with that bullshit. Back in my day we had a more honest name for “headcanon”: fan fiction. Which is fine x I’ve written plenty of fan fiction over the years, but I didn’t go around pretending that it was how a given story actually played out.

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Do you guys ever use specialized ammo in your games?

>>92625368
It's a tabletop setting though, one which has premade adventures that could radically alter the course of the entire setting if the players did something radical. So I've never agreed with this idea of hard canon metaplot.

Especially since Bloodlines wrote over 90% of the canon L.A. citybook (No MacNeil mentioned by name at all, that weird child vampire in hollywood is gone and replaced with Isaac, no Malk that acts like Bela Lugosi) itself and was only adopted as canon post-hoc due to the game's popularity.

>>92625405
My players acquired handloaded silver shotgun shells since they're having to heist a building in Garou territory. None of them checked the ammo so if it botches it might just destroy the firearm.

>>92625423
>So I've never agreed with this idea of hard canon metaplot.
And yet one exists, so…

>and was only adopted as canon post-hoc due to the game's popularity.
The “why” is less important than the “that”. Like I said, at your table it’s your rules, but in this thread it’s what’s actually published that matters.

Which is all a long-winded way of saying that Smiling Jack worked with Caine to throw the Sabbat, Camarilla, and Kurt-Jin out of LA. That was fun. And he didn’t even mention Carthage once.

>>92625497
I get the feeling you just want to argue about shit. I have no idea where you got the ludicrous notion that in this thread only officially published material matters. This is /tg/. We discuss traditional games, not only official lore from tabletop games. I'm not going to respond further since I have a suspicion you're one of those people who shit up last thread trying to argue about everything.

>>92622950
> breeding was problematic

Yeah, no one actually wants to play a eugenics simulator except for weird grogs.

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>>92625493
and that's different than regular botches? jokes aside, what are they stealing? Fetishes?

>>92625405
Aside from Silver bullets and the occasional shotgun shells stuffed with the bane of whatever it is you're hunting, not really.

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>People asking about cross splat games
That's fine and all but here's an idea
>Regular games that heavily includes other splats
Have you guys ever had games which the players have to go up against other monsters? Besides hunter that is

>>92625692
Probably not heavily, but the games I run/play in with my group usually involves a decent amount of encountering other supernatural creatures. Some of which aren't even playable splats.

>>92625709
Any fond memories?

So, I don't want to start another Anarch related tantrum from out resident shitposter, but I was thinking about something I think would be kind of cool. I like the Anarchs as retarded rebellious teenagers to Boomer Elders, so I don't want this to be seen as me proposing something that would change the Anarchs themselves. This is just sort of a sideways thing.

What if Catiffs moved to legitimize themselves into something like the Cam but without the Clans? Using some Sabbat Rites along the way to keep blood bonds low. These guys would want to mix the blood, not dilute it, the Clan squabbles are a huge problem but what if they didn't adhere to ridged clan structures & neonates were more free to move between circles? Bound by Oaths of Fealty & bonds of vassels & lords, more than Clans & Sires. What do you guys think? Stupid? Too close to other stuff?

I imagine it would take calling a lot of Catiffs & Clan traitors together & taking a city for themselves.

>>92625562
>I have no idea where you got the ludicrous notion that in this thread only officially published material matters
The part where we literally can’t have a conversation without a common frame of reference. Imagine the question I asked upthread about surviving the Titanic and someone brings up that Discipline what lets you drink sea water instead of vitae to take care of the blood issue while swimming to shore and when pressed for “what Discipline” he says Thalassos which is possessed by Clan Scylla which is a founding member of the Camarilla and was completely intransigent about that clan not existing outside of his table.

Imagine the Anon asking about Montano and someone responds that he’s actually just Saulot, who also is only 231 years old and diablerized himself up to Antediluvian status.

Imagine the guy who asked about Garou and how they feel about more dog-looking werewolves and all the responses were about how it’s be fine because the Garou are famously accepting of variations on the shapeshifters, they’re big friends with werebears and were cats for example.

There NEEDS to be a common frame of reference or every discussion just fails before it can even start in any meaningful way. It’s fine to preface something with “well, at my table…”, but you can’t expect a conversation to go:

>have the Brujah even accomplished anything since Carthage
>>Well Smiling Jack pulled off this great scheme that freed LA from a three-pronged assault and restored it to Anarch control.
>That doesn’t count because I don’t like it.

And not expect it to just devolve into an argument.

>>92625405
Does a machinegun staker made by a mad inventor Malk count?

>>92625784
Honestly the Sabbat toyed with the idea of fully destroying the concept of Clan with rituals, but they pussied out pretty early on.

You could pull it off maybe if you picked an unimportant enough city with a Prince/Bishop that wasn't related to anyone important. You'd also struggle getting a lot of the caitiff youngsters involved if it's explicitly going to still go off of a pseudo-feudal system. But with enough caveats, I don't think the concept is entirely unworkable. Question is, what would you use this idea for?

>>92625795
Autists really do struggle outside their social frameworks

>>92625784
>What if Catiffs moved to legitimize themselves into something like the Cam but without the Clans?
You could do that in your games but what defines the Caitiff is their lack of connection to everyone. It is almost impossible to unify them into a sect.
>>92625801
Sure, why not?

>>92625784
I think the Camarilla would put the full force of the justicars and their archons when they learn of this threat to their power and possible masquerade breach.

I also fail to see how these Caitiff and possible Panders acquire the means to enough Sabbat rites to even develop this because that would mean you have enough former Sabbat who decided to stop drinking the koolaid without the Sabbat hunting and killing them.

You could have a cool chronicle about being a caitiff in this city beset on both sides but that's up to you

>>92625840
Anything happening in Columbus Ohio? It's big enough without being too important in any particular way.

The purpose would be to explore the idea for an adventure/campaign with my players. Catiffs would be common so anyone wanting to mix some weird Disiplines would be free to do so. I could have Clans that should be rivals rubbing elbows for good or ill. I could use all the existing factions as allies or antagonists without the players feeling innate loyalty to them. I also really want an excuse to have old medieval terminology. I love the idea of modern nights vampire knights. Players could even found their own Knightly Order & shit. You still get Elder machinations, but without the aforementioned inherent loyalties & oppositions & such.

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>>92625764
From a Vampire the Masquerade game set in Washington D.C. Run in a heavily homebrewed VTM to VTR conversion, using a lot of nWoD-oWoD crossover, to spare the loreheads an aneurysm

>A few run-ins with Changelings (Lost 1e) and Hobgoblins, such as a Hobgoblin and Changeling dealing goblin-fruit drugs on a powerful Brujah's turf or that time our Kiasyd almost started a Vampire-Freehold War.

>A Pentex owned company that was trying to infect the city with a Bane-Disease after they had reactivated several dormant wyrm flesh-tumors called "Gardens", which had infected or destroyed most of the local Werewolves.

>Some Sabbat fuckhead in Maryland embraced a Rokea, and now it's in perma-frenzy in the Chesapeake Bay. We must find and destroy it to protect the masquerade, with the help of a Lasombra Antitribu Pirate with no Obtenebration.

>Our Lasombra Antitribu Pirate with no Obtenebration friend bumps into us again when we're on a sidequest in Maine, and takes us on a route down the east coast where we find a derelict cargo ship that had been overrun by some sort of East African cannibal creatures/spirits. We had to blow the ship up and send it to the bottom of the ocean.

>Met Sorcerer Gigachad and his friends who were hunting a body-hopping serial killer.

Also when I was running a Geist game, there was a sideplot that involved fighting a Sabbat pack. They also ran into a Skinchanger from the nWoD blue book.

Have an unrelated WoD shitpost I made for a pic.

>>92625877
Right, no connection with the Clans but what if they feel a connection from their lack of connection? I'd have a singular ancient kindred, wake up, decide shit is fucked, & strong arm his way into power. Bringing along with him mixed loyalty clan elders, Sabbat who regret drinking the kool-aid, Anarchs looking for legitimacy, etc. Any kindred who didn't like something but doesn't want to join the other entrenched factions, & also a ton of infiltrators keen on destabilizing the fledgling nation but are playing ball for appearances.
>>92625923
They'd probably need some strong allies from outside Kindred society, as well as some ancient kindred who are atleast mostly committed to the cause. As for why the Cam or the Sabbat haven't smashed them is because both sides don't know if it's just some anarchs messing around again, if it's a false flag from the other sides or their own internal factions, or some unknown move of the Jyhad.l as things spiral closer to Gehenna.

>>92625842
Yes, which is why I’m trying to help such a differently-ables person understand how normal conversations work.

>>92611389
Im currently running one. I explained to my players that things might be a bit unbalanced and that there might be winners and losers in terms of splat power levels. Past that it’s been going well. I gave the group a clear and immediate threat that justifies their cooperation early on and the groups managed to stick together with only a moderate (and entertaining amount) of infighting. Running CofD with a shit ton of borrowed lore from oWoD btw.

>>92625949
It's a neat concept. Though, just throwing this out here, the idea might work better in a different setting entirely. Maybe a VTR homebrew?

Or you could just put the Stoneman in there. Bro's a plot device and a half, he could justify your weird clanless vampire city.

>>92625176
>>92625280
it's probably the lone wolf ending

night road has lettow the prince of tucson mentions that he has a friend who got abused by a ventrue prince called lacroix and they had a talk about the kind of prince he (lettow) doesn't wants to be

so the protagonist is moving south and shit talks lacroix to everyone who would listen at least in the v5 timeline

>>92626082
You're the one who can't handle him going "off script"

>>92626080
You could just use the Stoneman or have it be an individual brood become an ''make your own powers'' school.
I would suggest this sect being an Watcher project because it makes sense and gives them something to do.

>>92626175
I appreciate it dude, but I'm pretty sure this guy is a troll. Something about the way he types. We used to have a dude who would say shit in these threads just to start arguments like "WoD is so mechanical I can't take it seriously beep boop", or "Social disciplines suck, just max out your generation and physical disciplines and beat up everyone that tries to stop you." I even saw the former posted last thread during the height of the argument. Pretty sure this dude is the same guy, so you're best off just ignoring everything he posts once you identify him.

>>92625795
>Well Smiling Jack pulled off this great scheme that freed LA from a three-pronged assault and restored it to Anarch control.
Right before loosing it to the New Promise Mandarinate

>>92626272
It was a stellar plan, it’s just bad luck that his ace in the hole went and got blown up/went underground with the rest of the Camarilla/fucked off.

>>92625784
>What if Catiffs moved to legitimize themselves into something like the Cam but without the Clans?
The problem is them doing this on any kind of scale. This could definitely work in a city - obviously especially a city with a lot of Caitiff (Hell, it has, this is essentially what Sarrasine did) - but scaling it up to a regional level so that you can end up with a sort of Caitiff Sect seems like it would be really difficult to pull off.

Plus, in the sense of dealing with clan squabbles...the Anarchs kind of already have that. Anarch baronies tend to basically spring up by a coterie of Anarchs seizing control of a given city, and then they and their eventual childer rule it. Thing is those coteries tend to be pretty eclectic. Read any of the Anarch sect guides and you'll hear a lot about gang squabbles and squabbles between baronies, but there's almost no talk about squabbles between Clans.

>>92626044
>A Pentex owned company that was trying to infect the city with a Bane-Disease after they had reactivated several dormant wyrm flesh-tumors called "Gardens", which had infected or destroyed most of the local Werewolves.
How did the players get involved?

>>92626272
>Right before loosing it to the New Promise Mandarinate

No, you've got that backwards. New Promise Mandate seized control in 1998, Smiling Jack restored control in 2004 to the Anarchs, then the official timeline splits between:

- Original Timeline: End Times happen, world ends around 2006.
- V20/V5 Timeline: No End Times; Nines Rodriguez is still Baron of LA as late as 2018 and has kept the Kuei-Jin of San Francisco from seizing control.

>>92626272
no the new promise mandarinate lost before vtmb the great leap forward was 1997 to 1999 and vtmb is in 2004

>>92626373
>- Original Timeline: End Times happen, world ends around 2006.

*2004. Later that year, basically.

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>>92626373
>>92626411
>suckhead never became an ancilla

>>92626358
Gangrel Primogen was getting worried about how few Werewolves he was spotting. Ordinarily he would be relieved, but them dropping off so suddenly scared him, and for good reason. Then, one of them actually ASKED to move through his domain. He asked the coterie to investigate, but before we could, the coterie's Ventrue and Ravnos were driving around and nearly hit a Werewolf, full Crinos, which was floundering in the center of the road. He was in extreme pain, and barely conscious. Ventrue managed to talk him into shifting down, and seeing this as an opportunity to figure out what the hell was going on, put him in the backseat and sped back to the Ventrue's haven. Before we could get much other than "Garden" out of him, he started melting into a puddle of flesh and gnashing teeth. We put him down and started sweeping the nearby forest the very next night. That's where we found the first Garden.

We made the Pentex connection later when the coterie Ventrue was asked to snoop around their operation a bit later on in the arc by the Prince. She managed to steal the CEO's hard drive and a bunch of emails from him through Dominate, at the cost of a Fomorarch based on Mr X. trying to track her down for half of the arc. This information allowed us to establish the connection between the Gardens and Pentex, as well as the locations of the other Gardens and what their plan was. We even realized then that this thing we found in a Setite Temple was one of these "Gardens" as well.

Vampires could only be temporary carriers for this Bane-Disease, which made us uniquely suited to dealing with a threat that mostly relied on its ability to infect and assimilate.

>>92625578
That’s not what breeds were in practice you disingenuous faggot

>>92626207
>>92626162
Oh shit, of course! I forgot about the Stoneman. Alright, so let's have it where the Stoneman raises up some dudes to be the "Order of Stone" or whatever he gets them to conquer a city, the Saubri (mostly the Watchers, but through the Watchers the Healers & the Warriors too) have been working with him so they put out the call for their Clan/Bloodline to support the city, the Stoneman/Order of the Stone also have the other Bloodlines pull in for support. Turns out all those parties he was hosting were about setting up.

It's a feudal set up where you swear some kind of fealty first to the city's regent, then to whoever as politics & personal vhoice dictate. Mostly it's going to be vasselage under your Sire, but after a while you might choose to branch out. Maybe you swear Oaths of Fealty to other Kindred too. It's just as labyrinthine as feudal arrangements should be, except it's like a lesser bloodbond. Kindred from the Clans would be almost as rare in this city as Bloodline are in Cam & Sabbat cities, & Bloodlines would be more populous.

>>92626218
Oh its okay. I think I recognize him from the 3.5 general, either he just happens to have a similar style of posting or its the same guy. I'll know if he has a melt down over flying turtle shields or not

>>92625627
Newspaper archives. The office just happens to be in an area actively contested between the local Garou and Gangrel so they took precautions.

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>>92627149
Just call them Masons so they get to hide in plain sight. Each lodge has a ''Building'', a discipline or discipline set, they are working on, a ''Slab'' which are just animal based feeding grounds and a ''Hospital'' for the Salubri who manage their human herds and retainers.

>>92627357
Nice nice. It's all coming together.

When I get some free time I'll write up the Laws Written In Stone or something which will be similar but different to the Traditions. They will be the tenets of this new "sect". Its origins are in Joliet Illonois, the Stone City, just south of Chicago, but its "big" city is Columbus Ohio.

>>92623446
>Dedicate the Haven
>Dedicate the Chantry
>Defense of the Sacred Haven
>Consecration of the Sanctum
>Ravening Walls of Ceoris
>Scry the Hearthstone
>Invisible Fire
>Hidden Haven
>Bans on stuff you don't want
>Wards for every foe
>delayed Lure of Flames & other horrible thaumaturgy inscribed on everything

Park this Haven right under/over within a big governmental building or infrastructure

Within the Haven itself place a Mirror Walk ritual mirror in someplace hidden/hidden in plain sight. I would personally put in at the bottom of a decorative fountain, no one is gonna think a fountain's mirror tile is a secret doorway. This mirror is tied to another that you have taken huge pains to transport to the middle of the Canadian wilderness & then build a large underground bunker sealed so nothing is getting in or out except the mirror. Keep a bunch of bug out essentials in the bunker & sleep in the bunker, using the Haven as both a massively defended distraction.

Standard army of ghouls, homoculi, experiments, bound spirits & ghosts, etc.

Automated turrets, gas for humans that might need to breath, any regular human level security.

>>92610562
I finally got it
To use the club it costs your voice and and summon wolf spirits if you do it correctly

>>92626521
Very interesting anon, were you the storyteller or a player this time? Did the players get a favor from the woofs even if just once?

Ever used a mummy?

Is there a WereRabbit breed

>>92627894
I was a player in the Washington D.C. Vampire game. Played the Ventrue, actually. I've shared stories from this game infrequently on this general. We didn't get an immediate favor from the woofs because there were none around, but we used that to negotiate with a pack of Werewolves much later in the same game.

It's funny you mention Mummies. The ST of that game and I were toying with the idea of a Mummy one night but one of the other players had a very adverse reaction to the idea, and I'm still not 100% sure why. We were all on a discord call at the time so "Mummies are banned" became a running joke in the group for a while.

>>92627896
Nwod Changing Breeds

>>92627896
>WereRabbit
https://www.storytellersvault.com/product/392052/Tribebook-Lepix

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What are the rules for ritual creation?

>>92627961
How dare you inflict that book on unsuspecting anons. Nobody wants to read the weird "they communicate by shitting publicly" book by Phil Brucatto.

>>92623789
You'd be surprised how many Carthage whingers are Brujah that weren't even alive for the fall of Western Rome but they just LOVE the idea of it.

>>92628034
Am I wrong tho?

>>92627942
Cool, I run a HtV game that is on hold at the moment while one of the players is running a Traveller campaign. I also use a mix of oWoD and nWoD lore, it's mostly just old with Lost changelings (even though I find Dreaming interesting I just find Lost more fitting) and Vigil compacts and conspiracies added. Is the ST familiar with running the other splats included?

>>92628034
I wish I read this post before spending 3.50 on it

>>92628198
There's fucked up shit in every book if you look hard enough. I just wish they would be honest about it like they used to instead of trying to hide it. oWod had ballgags & bdsm gear on the front cover of their ghoul book. Now they make international incidents with Chechnya and make Gamergate an evil misogynistic demon play but won't show any skin

>>92628121
HtV's great, probably my favorite single gameline. What's the plot of your Hunter game?

The ST was passingly familiar with the other splats we ran into. He hadn't run anything Werewolf, but read up on Pentex and the Wyrm in advance of that arc. He had run a bit of Changeling the Lost 1e before that game as well.

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>>92628198

Dear Nosferatu:
please, take a bath before coming to the elysium.

>>92611389
Yes, actually, one of the other characters was a fae weirdo in a coitere of vampires, ironically the game lasted like 2 sessions because we added a new guy who was an overly exaggerated italian stereotype and wouldn't take the game seriously, the fae got along perfectly fine with everyone else, mainly because we were all either on weird paths or had high humanity

In other news that's the only WoD game i've ever been in

>>92628621
Dear Toreador:
get fucked.

>>92628634
Not a toreafag- your weird smells disgust all of us.

>>92625176
I believe the Anarch or Lone Wolf ending is canon, LaCroix getting punked is mentioned in VTM: Night Road, and the protag is mentioned as being around, though their clan isn't stated

The canonicity of the text adventures is dubious though, not like it matters

>>92628634
I speak on behalf on the Ventrue
YOU. WILL. SHOWER.

>>92628621
If they do that their rats won't recognize them

is there anything more cringe than a ST who thinks that kindred are instantly attacked by woofs the moment they try and leave a city or if they try and live in a rural area? like it's a pretty big deal in apocalypse that there aren't enough Garou to actually stop all the wyrmspawn anywhere or keep track of everything

>>92628984
Is that true, nosferats?

I like how W5 killed all interest in Werewolf. Very nice, Paradox. Must be proud of yourselves with that one.

>>92628998
Your ST does that? Sounds like he's a fag.

>>92625692
no matter what I eventually end up throwing in Fomori at some point no matter which splat we're playing

ATTENTION REALITY DEVIANTS:
Your kind are not welcomed. And we are coming for you all.

>>92629037
Yeah, but Paradox and M5 are coming for you.

How cool is Gift of Life? I mean, if I was a low generation vampire, I would be trying my best to learn the Path of the Corpse in the Monster. Just getting a reprieve from being dead & remembering what it's like to be even just a little bit more human would be worth the investment & the blood. Not to mention you could totally use it to your advantage to kill a rival during daylight hours

>>92629272
For equivalent investment into Dominate, you could ride along on a natural human's senses and instincts while having a much more useful discipline otherwise.

>>92629322
Eh, sure it's more useful mechanically, but a ridealong isn't gonna top the real thing with your own body. It's like getting a taste of Golconda. I could see adherents to the path trying to learn it to understand better the human condition they left behind. Plus you get to enjoy sex again

>>92629001
If you must know, it takes more than a bath to get sewer stink off of you.

>>92629379
And the benzene smell from an industrial scrub is just as uncanny in its own way.

>>92629332
Possession costs a willpower point to use, instead of 1.2 humans of blood plus frenzying for the rest of that week. Plus it's not your own body, there's fun you can only have driving a Kia.

>>92629501
Possession, plus Path of Conjuring 5 is cool cause you can make a body custom built for shenanigans & won't leave a corpse

>>92628998
the way i've always handled it is that it's determined by a kindred's humanity, since that's what i imagine affects the scent of the wyrm on them. humanity 10 they barely show any wyrm taint (golconda completely masks the scent), humanity 0 they can smell it miles away.

>>92628235
>make Gamergate an evil misogynistic demon play
lol wut, i stopped following any of the 5th editions after they made the hecata, more context?

Where can I find V20 equipment, weapons, ex0losives, armor, etc?

>>92629538
Scattered across every fucking book, but M20 core rulebook has the most comprehensive section iirc.

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what clan looks best feminized and in a chastity cage? other than the tremere, of course

>>92630164
gangrel if you go full bondage and add a harness, leash and muzzle

>>92628235
Weird fucked up shit is part of the fun of the setting but Brucatto manages to make it boring. It's not even "roll for circumference" bad which becomes entertaining, it's just low quality filth like a 50p magazine full of badly drawn stick figures fucking.

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God, this is fucking depressing. Why are Vampires such assholes?

>>92630730
it's a mix of the curse that makes them lose humanity which after a point (5-4) they only get a rise out of attrocities (that have a chance to make their humanity go down even more) and undead crab mentality because low humanity vampires are often secretly jealous of high humanity vampires

>>92630788
>the curse that makes them lose humanity
A careful reading of Vampire’s rules, at least through V20, makes it pretty plain that it’s actually pretty easy to maintain a normal humanity of 7, as long as you aren’t allowing yourself to go hungry and aren’t constantly putting yourself in/getting put in dangerous situations and have a social group to belong to. To be honest, if you could imagine a hypothetical city of, say, half a million people, and put five ordinary humanity 7 vampires in it, there’s really no mechanical reason why they couldn’t hang out with each other for eternity, having comparatively ordinary lives. Especially with the Internet now being a thing meaning that infinite entertainment is at your fingertips. You can even still make mortal friends as long as you’re okay with them gradually aging and dying, but that happens to literally every normal person anyway - I’m 37 and I’ve had co-workers or friends or family members die, from old age or cancer or suicide or a heart attack or alcohol poisoning. It hurts and it sucks and I wish it didn’t happen, but eventually I’m able to move on and pull myself together again, and that’s ordinary. That’s what people do.

Vampires aren’t assholes because they’re vampires, then, or at least because of the curse. I mean think about what the vampires fight each other over - fear of their elders, fear of childer, political squabbles, vendettas because of insults, good ol’ fashion bigotry or racism or sexism…these aren’t the Beast. The Beast is an animal, it doesn’t care about any of those things.

Vampires are assholes because they’re people. Not because they’re vampires.

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>>92629535
Werewolves actually have a power that actually does sense the wyrm, but apparently it's 7+ that it's not on them

>>92628288
>What's the plot of your Hunter game?
The players don't know it yet but a demon is trying to build a new Tower of Babel in the center of an early cyberpunk city, besides that each player has a personal goal like avenging his parents that wore killed by a vampire or saving a changeling brother from their keeper

>>92628998
Wherever it dwells, wherever it breeds is the second law in the litany for a reason. A lone leech travelling outside of a scab is an easy target, a pack of cliath looking to make a name for themselves will see it as a bit of fun.

>>92630923
>The Beast is an animal, it doesn’t care about any of those things.
but the beast isn't just a animal it's perverse and actively wants vampires to fall (channing the beast pg 28) and humanity is directly involved with bigotry or racism or sexism (channing the beast pg 21) and vampires on humantiy 7 tend to fall into a excuse stage that their behavior was just "this one" and then suddently they dropped in humanity (again cb pg 21) and then at level 6 they go for excuses "who knows maybe that guy was a pedo, not that i will ever kill again of course" and then you are already at 5 where the vampire has actual contempt for "goody two-shoes"

and that's not even getting into frenzy murder, "i had to kill this guy because of vampire politics"or vampires who start on humanity lower than 7 because of their human upbringing

>>92631030
Eh, fair enough - hadn't read that supplement. That's too bad, though, I did like the idea that all the vampiric whining about the Beast and how the Hunger drives them to be monstrous and so on was ultimately just them refusing to accept that no, they're just bad people.

>>92631109
No, the Beast is real, it's capitalized for a reason, it's the animal instinct for destruction and immediate gain made manifest, it's Caine's Curse in all of his childer, quite a few disciplines and blood magic can literally draw it out, either putting it into someone else or making it extremely agitated, even in normal people

>>92630923
Nah the Beast is like your own personal demon that wants you to be an atavistic monster in every sense. It's not just some physical rage monster, its a social creature, a mental creature too. It wants you to force lesser under you, it wants your to conquer people & abuse them, it wants to drain the world dry. Raising your humanity doesn't help, it's always the worst part of your subconscious, the devil on your shoulder.

Personally I think that the Beast is the representation of the curse & your sins, & achieving Golconda means finding a way to remove your Beast, to rip it out of you & kill it. No Beast, no fear of fire. No Beast, no frenzy. No Beast, no withering under the gaze of God (the sun)

>>92631179
>the Beast is real
I never doubted that it was *real*, just that the vampires who use it as an excuse for every bad action they take are lying to themselves. Like yeah when they're frenzying, or when their Humanity/Path is very low and so they're more Beast than person, sure. But the typical stuff that vampires deal with in actual gameplay - all the politicking and stuff I mentioned - I didn't think that was the Beast too, that was just their *human* side being assholes.

>>92631222
>It wants you to force lesser under you, it wants your to conquer people & abuse them, it wants to drain the world dry
See the reason why I didn't think this was because there's nothing vampires do to other vampires that humans don't do to other humans. This world has people like Kim Jong-un and Saparmurat Niyazov and the French.

>>92630923
>Vampires are assholes because they’re people.
But being assholes makes them risk self-destroying spiritual decay /because/ they're vampires, at the very least.
Personally I much prefer it being ambiguous whether the beast and the fall of humanity happens to be spiritual, psychological,sociological or supernatural. Gives us more leeway to craft cool stories.

>>92629057
The irony of Paradox finally doing mages in - whatever the paradigm - cannot be understated.

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So there's no official description for the Stoneman, and given that he's *at least* 2,173 years old (he's continuously noted as being able to describe Carthage in detail, so the minimum date for his Embrace is "before the Third Punic War" [149-146 BC]) he can almost certainly change his appearance easily through any number of means, but I still want to give him some image. This work?

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>>92631405
i like it, kinda reminds me of supernatural's cain

>>92631295
I'm not saying that humans can't be fucked up. It's just that when a vampire does fucked up stuff the same way a human does, the Beast gets fed. It's the manifestation of the Curse of Caine. Normal humans can be serial killers but they aren't going to Frenzy, in the kindred sense, because they killed. Being a vampire means inheriting the sins of the father & being forced to atone. It's not simple morality, you are struggling to be human

>>92631506
I was going for a North African/Levantine look (since vampires used to be a lot less mobile, and since the earliest thing the Stoneman references is Carthage, I figure he was probably Carthaginian himself - either a native of North Africa or of Phoenician extraction), but I also specified heavy shadows to keep his features obscured.

Never seen Supernatural.

>>92631405
I'm against giving vampires beards in most cases. My exception is Caine. I think Caine needs a beard by default. But now you've made me feel like I should depict The Stoneman for my little catiff kingdom honebrew

>>92631528
>I was going for a North African/Levantine look
that's kinda hard to do with a black and white look like this

can you make the skin grayer/darker or will the ai throw an entirely new picture if you ask it to do that? i think somewhat of a gray (in a black and white style) skin would fit with the age, area and the stoneman title

the name has to come from somewhere after all

>>92628998
Your ST is viewing by the perspective of Vampires, not what its said in Werewolf books. Kinda retard he does that, but it's his game after all.

>>92631109
i think metaphor is meant to be akin spirtual addiction, a vampire can be a good person, but it takes a lot more effort just like how it takes more effort for a junkie to stay clean

both the beast and other vampires can then be seen as the toxic outside influence (beast being the dealer and other vampires being other junkies) a junkie trying to get clean while still staying in that social circle can face

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>>92631547
>I'm against giving vampires beards in most cases.
It depends on the era and location of their Embrace, I think. If beards were a normal style at the time then they should probably be depicted with them.

>>92631548
>can you make the skin grayer/darker
To an extent, though the difficulty there is keeping him from being outright Black.