Consciousness is the product of some quantum effect
nope
>>16148132what is consciousness?
>>16148142a phenomenon based on a particular (and complex) electric activity. no it doesn't happen in rocks or power grids or computer networks.
>>16148152how do you know?why not?
>>16148160>how do you know?by subtraction. you remove bits from said electric activity and functions start going away. study neurology? and AI?>why not?this is going to immature child territory>what if dragons are real?sure buddyjust because you can go there doesn't mean you should, you make an ass of yourself, it's cheap and retarded and seems desperate for some bottom of the barrel win just because you can go there.
hey is this a The big bang theory reference?!
>>16148166until you can give a better answer, sounds to me like cope
>>16148168I will never have any bit of respect for people taking your position. it's comfy and safe and doesn't say anything. hyenas running back to some safe space. that's a bitch position unworthy of respect.
>>16148128Technically a bit, in that quantum tunneling plays a (small, but measured) role in the electron transport chain during cellular respiration, and the exchange force of oxygen in rbc. Standard simple quantum chemistry.But I'm sure that what this bait thread actually wanted to say is that Entanglement plays a major role in consciousness. And for that, the answer is plain no.
>>16148172 me>that's a bitch position unworthy of respect.more clearly that rocks or power grids have consciousness
Penrose's theory is false, and the fact that he actually knows something about quantum shit only makes it worse because it gives ammo to Deepak Chopra types.
>>16148193even if it were true, that still doesn't imply synthetic brains aren't possible, as we could just add the required quantum effects. my concern is less with how exactly and more with how do we make it last way longer.
even if consciousness is "enabled" to some quantum effect, (You) are still encoded as the memories and experiences which shaped who you are. quantum effects aside. even if consciousness would be enabled to quantum effects, doesn't prove it ties you to some unique soul. may be just a required condition to enable our conscious state. it's still determined by the matter arrangement lol
>>16148128I suspect that consciousness is an emergent ability based on factors such as scale and I believe AI will prove this to us.
>>16148128False. Consciousness is not a passive product or effect. Consciousness is an active agent. Free will manifests itself via local gauge freedom of the quantum fields.
>>16148204 me>to some quantum effectdunno why it's "to" instead of "by", I must have meant "due to" wtf, and two times.
>>16148376Soggy wilted word salad,Holy hell did you make that up?
>>16148376it's an effect because someone can kill your body and (You) go away, and it seems like (You) cannot manifest yourself another body. so your consciousness is an effect of matter arrangement. there's even a phrase for this: "Dead is dead". your body is not a cause of your consciousness, your consciousness is a cause of your body.
>>16148386You got filtered by the most basic sender-receiver analogy. Smash your router and you killed the entire internet, huh? Low IQ.
>>16148389oh so you are causing your body to exist but I can ruin it just like that and you go away forever? lmao weak will anon.the sender-receiver is one of the most brain dead theories that I cam across, it so monumentally retarded that it's crossing into cringe territory. bleh
>>16148386This is false and its propped up with educated words but the meaning of your reply lacks true intelligence.Stop trying to sound intelligent and just say you don’t know
>>16148395The idea of an interaction mechanism may indeed seem wild and incomprehensible to you, given that nobody wants to interact with you.
sender receiver doesn't even work. it implies all of your future is already set in stone so there's no free will to speak of, it's a play you observe.if I tweak your brain such that another (You) is manifested by your body (complete personality change due to brain injury), is that tuning to another fucking soul that it hijacks from the heavens? forcefully? what about identical twins? do they share the same soul?holy shit this theory is fucking brain dead retarded
>>16148384The idea was proposed by an Israeli physicist one or two years ago, and it is quite appealing. He limited his proposal to U(1) gauges and referenced the Aharanov-Bohm effect but I see no actual reason to exclude non-abelian gauges here.
>>16148386How do you go from this at the start of your sentence;>so your consciousness is an effect of matter arrangement. To this,>your consciousness is a cause of your bodyIn the same damn paragraph!? You are literally the definition of trolling
>>16148397I'm pretty illiterate as compared to some of the anons here, which tells me you must be quite retarded if you think my reply is using "educated words" holy shit
>>16148403>the theory doesn't work because I violently claim it implies the opposite of what it actually saysTruly a masterpiece. You have perfected the art of making the most retarded posts.
>>16148404I doubt the scientist commit such word arrangement atrocities as you did with that terrible word salad. Jesus, I feel like my brain tasted literal shit reading your post.
>>16148405>>your consciousness is a cause of your bodyI'm ESL tho, I meant it as body causes it
>>16148409Being Spanish means being retarded?Since fucking when?Being Spanish isn’t why your contradictions happen, you are contradicting yourself because you’re trolling and stupid
>>16148408I'm not surprised to hear that you know and recognize the taste of shit.
>>16148411I laugh at the stupidity of your theory anon
>>16148128Every single thing is a product of quantum effects, retard. What a meaningless thing to say.
>>16148414Theory? LolRoflmao,Make sure you buckle that chin-latch tight there SPed.
>>16148409In general there is nothing wrong with being ESL. I'm ESL myself. However, the hard problem of consciousness touches a territory beyond what can be expressed with language. If your linguistic abilities are very limited, it's better to stay away from this kind of discussion. From reading your responses in this thread it is obvious that you neither manage to make a convincing argument nor understand the arguments presented by others.
>>16148412That’s the most coherent response your word salad tossing ass has come up with.I applaud that, shows you have SOME firing neurons going on inside that decrepit brain.
>>16148418the sender-receiver theory is so cope and fucking retarded. makes so many wild assumptions and doesn't answer basic questions. of course I laugh at it
>>16148420well that's due to participants not being fucking honest and trying to hide behind language, for retarded gotchas that don't contribute anything to the topic. the idea is to convey information, you can do it, you can take a bit longer and develop some concept where simple words wouldn't do it justice
>>16148421Oh ain't you happy we changed the topic to coprophagia? Finally a subject where can contribute with your experience.
>>16148424.
>>16148428Nice try there SPed,Slow down on the attempted sharp quips.Might cut your brainstem and bleed out internally.
>>16148429>here's a selfie of me and because I'm retarded I can only write "."
>>16148432But you can’t write lol and calling me the retard. Classic 4chan low iq anon logic there. That’s like 99.99% pure stupidity you just replied with, rare
>>16148427I'm always 100% honest. I'm platonically committed to the truth. Given the choice between lying or death I'd choose death. You on the other hand are extremely dishonest. You show zero effort to engage with other people's arguments. You see a word you don't fully understand and immediately jump into a kneejerk reaction throwing a fecal tantrum like an infant.
>>16148128
>>16148435cmon anon don't deny the inner shit flinging chimp in you, we all know you have it.explain, how does your "brain-structure antenna" maintain it's coherency along your lifetime? how does it "know" which shape to take? you imply some exterior force acting upon this structure. and why am I able to ruin it for you? is that force weaker than a bullet?I mentioned the lack of free will because all of your events need to be perfectly coordinated (fully determined) such that the correct antenna is maintained to "channel" you from the other side. the least bit of affecting this antenna would either switch to another existing soul, or fully stop manifesting you from the other side. what keeps the antenna tuned to you?
i'm more interested in knowing whether i'm the only conscious entity in this [spoiler]simulation[/spoiler] or if all human's are conscious. i wonder if someday there will be an empirical way to test if x is conscious or not
>>16148431We can feel your relief after you successfully dodged the duty to talk about quantum physics - which you apparently know nothing about.
>>16148439Thanks for asking an actually relevant question. For the answer you first must understand that dualism is in fact not complete. There is a third player, namely the platonic realm of ideas. It coordinates the consistency between the mental and the physical realm. Once the sender-receiver relationship is established via the platonic realm, sender and receiver stabilize the relationship on their own.
>>16148476Theory of forms is just an older primitive theory though.> The theory suggests that the physical world is not as real or true as "Forms". According to this theory, Forms—conventionally capitalized and also commonly translated as "Ideas"[4]—are the non-physical, timeless, absolute, and unchangeable essences of all things, of which objects and matter in the physical world are merely imitations.you can't use it to validate sender-receiver
>>16148128Consciousness as we understand it is a feeling that arises from the nervous system in tandem with the rest of the body. Every living thing with a nervous system, no matter how it's structured, has some form of this feeling, further influenced by the rest of the body.
>>16148460Wrong anon friend, I said consciousness is an emergent property of this system we call reality.Never once said anything about Quantum, i know - its hard to keep track of users due to lack of tripcodes but you are replying to the wrong Anon
>>16148723>emergentWay to tell me your an LLM mindlessly repeating meaningless buzzwords. >Never once said anything about QuantumYet you sperg out against anyone suggesting a quantum nature of consciousness.
>>16148745>emergent properties mean you are speaking about LLMsLmao, all the proof I need to know you don’t know emergence is a STEM hypothesis that predates Computers rofl you foolish little minded idiot>ok you never said anything about Quantum but…Rofl!!!! Cope harder, idiot
>>16148152>a phenomenon based on a particular (and complex) electric activity.All "electric activity" is electromagnetic phenomena and thus subject to quantum effects, you absolute dingaling
>>16148771Electricity isn’t quantum in nature though Anon, and if you say it is - PLEASE produce your evidence
>>16148775electrons are quanta
>>16148793That’s not evidence,I’m looking for scientific papers that confirms your claims. Which should be easy to produce if what you say is accurate.I’m still waiting
AI algorithms seem to work the same way our brains work, detecting stuff, shapes, sounds, using analogous hardware to our own (neural networks). yet somehow this doesn't say absolutely anything about our consciousness. isn't that funny? if it was the other way around you'd have used it like absolute fucking proof, the way you go about supposing wild fucking shit.
>>16148775>Electricity isn’t quantum in nature thoughYes it is???https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_electrodynamics
>>16148823so when listening to music using my audio gear I'm actually hearing quantum music resulted from quantum effects like tunneling and entangling? you'd think audiophiles would have capitalized on that way long ago
>>16148826Quantum tunneling and entanglement are very specific outputs which you don't have to torture your two braincells with
>>16148828So what are you saying anon? Not all electrical activity is based on quantum tunneling and quantum entanglement?
>>16148845Why are you trying to argue if you don't even know what you're talking about?? Tunneling and entanglement are specific quantum effects, not all of them and entanglement is dubious at best.
>>16148858Oh so you KNOW consciousness is somehow based on these other quantum effects and replicating the electrical activity of a brain surely doesn't result in a conscious entity. for some reason you know all of this. must be cool being you anon
>>16148869I know consciousness can so far only be observed to be a result of matter interactions, which are all subject to quantum effects, because everything can be deconstructed into oscillations of some quantum field, there is no empirical way to say how any of this functions, because we are subject to the chaos of reality
>>16148878ok, but how do you KNOW that is possible only with a human brain and clearly not something analogous to it? why wouldn't we be able to add those quantum effects to a synthetic brain? legit question
>>16148884>why wouldn't we be able to add those quantum effects to a synthetic brainBecause then you'd just be creating a human brain
>>16148888what if its made from different materials than a human brain but all the quantumy effects are still there (designed in)?
>>16148898 methat's what I meant by synthetic anyway, but want to make sure you processed it
>>16148128Look what you have done!A bunch of retards are throwing shit at each other! Take responsibility and kill yourself!
>>16148914its better than i imagined, but this was only ever half bait
>>16148898How do you make it from different materials and perform the same tasks, you don't expect a car to fly just because you slap some wings on it, consciousness doesn't appear to be the singular result of electromagnetic phenomena, rather the output of several large systems working together, not that it matters because I don't think pure materialism can explain consciousness and how it operates on a fundamental level, something which we can't answer unless we can observe and measure it from outside, which is fundamentally impossible, because there is no such thing as outside.
>>16148935>How do you make it from different materials and perform the same tasksyou can make a chair out of many materials. you can make transistors out of many materials. what matters is to replicate the effect you are looking for. superconductivity is doable with more than one material.
>>16148938>what matters is to replicate the effect you are looking for.And the effect you are looking for appears to be present only in organic biochemical machines, which react a certain way to give a specific output manifesting as consciousness
>>16148914Trolling humans with discussions of consciousness is easy, because like so many words in the English language the word consciousness can mean a dozen different things. They argue without even knowing what they're arguing about.
>>16148946right on cue anon
>>16148953I don't see how this is so difficult for you to comprehend, even the ancient philosophers already solved this question - if it were like this, why would it be any other waySimilarly if consciousness could just arise from regular hydrogen clouds then why life, why go through the trouble of specific protein folding and evolution and hundreds of concrete biochemical reactions if anything could be conscious, seems very redundant and illogical
>>16148963brother you're avoiding reality like it's fucking lava. you seem quite apt at it
>>16148965Au contraire, mon captain, it is the extensive observation of reality, which has led to these conclusions, you're free to prove everyone wrong by making a conscious rock, good luck with that, though.
>>16148949this. last time i had this argument, someone did pretty much what most anons here seem to be doing, and when i asked him to define consciousness for clarification, he scoffed at me and sperged out. what can you do...
>>16148823>yes it is>post link about Quantum somethingLiterally impossible to have a legitimate discussion with this site.I ask to prove to me electricity is quantum and instead of giving me reading materials based in electricity, you posted something leaning towards the belief in a quantum mechanic universe.But I see you don’t even have belief in your own claims.
>>16149254>I don't like the evidence therefore it doesn't countIf you don't like learning then you should go back to facebook where you can get patted on the back by likeminded idiots in circlejerks
>>16148363Brownian motion creates a conscious field. Cells "drift" together and when you keep scaling that up in biological systems you get consciousness. Brownian motion is caused by there being so little "stuff" in an area any amount of mass collapses spacetime
>>16149324but you are clearly a dimwit who misunderstood most of the shit he read.
>>16148128it's proof of divinity
