What am I in for? New to reading by the way
>crime and punishment>what is defined as a crime and as a punishment are actions deemed destructive towards a society or another person>go into the woods and live alone>all of a sudden there is no crime or punishment anymorebasically what I'm saying is that it's a social construct and that we live in a society
>>23319832Is it the Katz translation that you're reading or is that just the pic you used incidentally?
>>23319859Katz translation
>>23319859Not OP but which translation is better?
It'll be difficult but if you manage to push your way through the text, it'll be a revelation for you and change your life foreverBy that I mean you will want to read more books
>>23319988Decide for yourself, faggot.
>>23319859Katz is very good.
>>23319988Anything other than P&V is fine.
>>23319988Katz is not bad. I personally like Garnett, though her style is slightly antiquated.Avoid piv like the plague.
>>23319832Ghastly rigamarole.
>>23319832Raskolnikov will be literally you. I also cried at the ending.
>>23320019No you swine
>>23319832A book about a man who thought he was enlightened enough to see through "moral fictions," commits an unspeakable crime in service of what he saw as a greater good, and who's conscience rips him apart, thereby proving that no one is smart enough to escape conscience.
The middle 1/3 of the book kinda drags on, but power through it and gets better.If this is your first Russian novel, maybe keep notes on all the nicknames and patronymics.
>>23320391>If this is your first Russian novel, maybe keep notes on all the nicknames and patronymics.This. Each character has 3 names. Anon Anonymovich MouskolnikovThe name that the other characters use to refer to each other depends entirely on the time of day at which the author was writing. Sometimes they even use a nickname that sounds absolutely nothing like either of these 3 names
>>23320019Why are there hyphens on the street name ?
>>23320231Times i cried reading candp - when R asks the little girl to pray for him - when R visits his mother for one last time - when R falls on his knees before sofja - the ending
>>23319988constance garnett the GOAT
>>23319832the rigamarole and the ghastly christian embarrasment etc etc
>>23320050>>23320052>>23322038It's funny, a few years ago /lit/ would consider reading Garnett translations like you were practically pissing on the author's grave. What caused this change of heart?
>>23319832One of the best stories ever told
>>23322147she's the translator that I happened to encounter dostoyevsky through and I am now stockholmed into liking her. also I kinda like her victorian and appropriate demeanor when describing awful ugly russian behavior. juxtaposition.
nigatest
>>23319832which translation should I get? I am reading the Pevear and Volokhonsky of Tolstoy's Anna Karennina and it is going pretty well. Do they do a good job with Dosto too?
>>23319832Normieslop written for pseudo intellectuals and midwits. This book was shilled by Jordan Peterson which tells you everything you need to know about it.
>>23320019>>23323506thanks anon. I didn’t see that this question was already answered lol
>>23319854How does this answers OP question? That never happens in the book
>>23319832>New to readingIs first grade fun?
>>23319832The rattling bable of a gambling addict.
>>23319988ready
Someone explain to me why Dostoevsky translations are so contentious. Never seen this much debate about an author's translations.
>>23321055My understanding was that it was the not specifically identify a real location. In Dostoevsky's case, it may have been not to draw attention to anything or anywhere specific (since all publications had to pass the censors).
They should make a movie adaptation already.
>>23320019okay english is not my first language, can any of you fags help me to decide? i'm thinking Constance Garnett revised version
>>23325716I'm reading the revised Garnett translation. I read a bunch of translations side by side and the two that read the best to me were Katz and revised Garnett. I personally prioritize how well the prose flows when reading. I don't care about academic accuracy or poetic prose.
>>23323510>t. never read it
>>23325831Why do you think I never read it? I just said I'm in the process of reading it, and I'm telling you the translations I enjoyed the most. Are you suggesting that both the translations I suggested suddenly degrade in quality later on?
>>23325622There are already like 7 versions in movies and tv series.The one from 1970 is perfect, you can find it on youtube.
>>23325312Polysemic quality to a lot of terms that's difficult to fully render (breeding a lot of variation). For example in C&P the word for "crime" used in the title and kinda throughout is "пpecтyплeниe" which is not unusual, but it can mean "trespassing" in a physical sense as well, as it contains the root "cтyп" indicating physical "stepping". There are parts of the book where this root is repeated when characters "step over" doorways or other boundaries, "step into" rooms, etc., so there's a running motif of transgression in both the physical and moral / spiritual sense connecting various characters. It's difficult to indicate that sometimes. Not to mention Biblical references.If you want to get into Bakhtinian readings then the double-voicedness as well, characters constantly using the words of others or indicating others in such a way that exact phrasing or pointed word choice matters a lot. His construction and syntax is also more purposeful than some give him credit for, but with the case system in Russian it gets difficult to match directly and it becomes a question of what ought to be given importance (just look at >>23320019).Finally lots of changes in register and humour that can come off poorly (Bakhtin also writes a lot on this). He takes a fair bit from Dickens and Gogol who are also difficult to translate, though Dosto himself is not quite as fixated on skaz I don't think.Plus he's a popular author so new translations always get a lot of publicity and probably sell well enough.
>>23327251Oh forgot to add, linguistic taboo and indirect speech as well is important throughout. It's pretty much the crux of a lot of discourse in Demons (and actually it should be "Devils" more accurately, the distinction between religious "devils" and the Romantic idea of "daemons / demons" is important). The Magarshack translation is pretty good about distinguishing between the two. Although in the Penguin edition it doesn't have the epigraph from Pushkin's "Devils", only the Gospel of Luke, which kinda sucks.Meerson has a good book about this called Dostoevsky's Taboos if you're interested.
>>23327290>Although in the Penguin edition it doesn't have the epigraph from Pushkin's "Devils", only the Gospel of Luke, which kinda sucks.Do you mean the penguin edition by Maguire? It does have the Pushkin poem for me.
>>23319832A lot of getting sick and a deconstruction of the "great man" theory and the ensuing morality. Also, the importance of compassion for everyone around you save for the most depraved. Basically, if you can feel guilt, you can feel salvation and grace.
>>23327409Nah this one
oouuuughhhhh... I'm so sick.....*checks sleeve for blood*OK good... *smiles*i must leave my dreadful hole...*walks into bar and has drink*ohhhhh I'm such a sick man....... *checks boot for blood* okay... it's okayHah.. haha! Why am I worried? *hops back to room*Oughhhhh.... I really am sick... *checks shirt for blood* ok... good
>>23327668Oh okay, my bad. Thanks anon.
>>23319988I liked the David McDuff translation
>>23320019Damn, I didn't realize how much translations of Russian works take away from them. It also explains why you guys don't all hate on Dostoyevsky as much
>>23319988My Russian literature professor recommended Pevear and Volokhonsky. She specifically advised against reading the Constance Garnett translation.
you can expect ghastly rigmarole full of soul-searching and self-revelatio, but the soul, and the sins, and the sentimentality, and the journalese, hardly warrant the tedious and muddled search.
>>23332023Jesus being spilled all over the place
