Was the Finnish Air Force the most overachieving branch of WW2?
The Fiins did well but I'd say the Royal Norwegian Navy did more with what they had
>>61568055Didn't they get like a 32:1 kill/loss ratio with the buffalo or something insane like that?
>>61568055>>61568151They were fighting Russians though. Inb4 the image about the german ace scoring 1000 kills on the easter front before going to the West and dying after 30 minutes.
>>61568151>Didn't they get like a 32:1 kill/loss ratio with the buffalo or something insane like that?I didn't even know there WERE buffaloes in Finland. That's pretty badass. I'm thinking about how the Finns were riding around on buffaloes and striking down their enemies with their knives, like prisoners shivving other prisoners.
>>61568200Everyone, even the Italians and Romanians had a very high K/D against commies in WW2, but Finland did it with last gen equipment that other nations considered obsolete.
Still lost the war to the Soviets. Twice lol.
>>61568229It was actually 33:1. 477 soviet aircraft claimed by Finland to the 50 Buffalos lost. >>61568271Yeah, sucks to suck. Fortunately Finland might get their land back and maybe even part of St. Pete by the end of the dacade. Will be a better fate than whatever China takes out of the east.
>Buffalo is obsolete>Swordfish is obsoletewhen will they learn that as long as it puts lead to [some] direction it will work
>>61568271Commies achieve a 33 for 1 kill rate against obselete aircraft and then BRAG.Evey single time.
>>61568271Karelia will be Finland again, Ivan. And Polka will be blasted.https://youtu.be/uMszu_VgMfY
>>61568271
>>61568291That's not 33:1 though? 477/50=9.54
>>61568271>We never wanted Kyiv cope
>>61568055The fact they were able to have such k/d with our g50 speaks volume. The more you are blonde the more you are good at this shit
>USSR uses planes almost exclusively as CAS>fighters a far distant second priority>sucks at CAS????Also check out my Bore Blunder drip.
>>61568291there were only 43 B-239s though
>>61568271>Stalin didn't really want to conquer all of Finland! HE DIDN'T!!!!On a related note, just the Fokker C.X dive-bombers did amazing feats. Slow and very vulnerable to the then "modern" Soviet aircrafts, they still managed to sneak around and drop bombs on armored trains and ferries on the Lake Lagoda, drop supplies to jaeger patrols deep behind enemy lines. Finns trained their crews to their utmost limits and it shoved.
For me, it's Night of the Bombers.>Finland did not have night fighters; hence no way to intercept the Soviet bombers. >Fug>The Finnish defenses were reactionary, with no way to stop the enemy before they were crashing through the gates.>Fug>Soviet night bombers were unstoppable.>Fug>Solution: join the Soviet night bomber formations with your own bombers on the Gulf of Finland when they are returning to base in Leningrad>Bomb the Soviet airbase>Ebinhttp://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/WW2History-NightOfTheBombers.htmlhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRBXq13f9Kk
>>61568151I mean, they were fighting the Russians for half the time.. so it's really like killing retarded fish in a gay barrell.
>>61572119Winter warFinns: 114 airplanes fit for combatSoviers: 2500 airplanes fit for combatThe credo of Finnish pilots to always attack, no matter the odds.Hard to imagine what the actual fights looked like, with a handful of planes attacking massive formations, and surviving it.
>>61568271>Still lost the war to the Soviets. Twice lol.I am near 100% convinced these morons saying this work for the CIA or something, because this is not a pro-Russia narrative, this makes them look like morons
>>61572090That's fuggin genius. Too bad stuff like that became nigh impossible once radar was introduced.
>It's easy to overachieve when you have ultra-modern planes on your side.T. Molotov, https://histdoc.net/pdf/molotov.pdf
>>61572436You wouldn't believe it, but commies are genuinely that retard.
>>61572689nah, the US shills are not smart enough to cover their tracks, they often give the game away accidentally, they clearly demonstrate knowledge of the topic but act stupid, I don't think they're pro-Russians
>>61568055I'd say the US submariners did pretty damn well once they unfucked their torpedoest. Finn
>>61572190>Hard to imagine what the actual fights looked like, with a handful of planes attacking massive formations, and surviving it.you need to set it up properly, you absolutely need to be the one with higher energy state and then you can strike and run away without them being able to touch you
>>61573465>turn fighters always got dabbed on>dogfighting was already dead by 1940
>>61571989>two weeks war never changes
>>61569294Finnish Air Force had 44 total, from which 15 were lost in combat.
>>61568055Fighting against superior numbers with outdated equipment was the reality for Finnish air force in ww2. Rigorous training and the aim for superior pilot capability was the thing going for us. Plus innovation for improving capabilities of the used materiel. Hasse Windt and Ilmari Juutilainen are examples of exeptional pilotes, but I would like to bring up another one. Birger Ek. He flew with an old russian plane captured in the winter war ( SB-2 ) and after noticing that normal bombs would not hurt russian submarines he rigged his plane with depth charges. Pioneering this technic proved effective. He sunk 4 russian submarines. The british were first in copying the innovation. Pic related. Birger Ek and the tail of his plane.
>>61578797I sit about 300 m from the airfield where Ek flew to sink russians. cool stuff
>>61578814I live 40 rifle shots from the russian border ( 30.06 ) Our cottage is located near the utti base so we get nice overflys sometimes. Back to Ek, the nice irony is that a swedish language speaking captain sinks russian subs with outdated russian plane for the finnish airforce. There is an awesome interview on youtube on him. No subtitles to help the english speaking /k/ommandos, but here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljWv9fzv54U( notice the "not this shit again" look on Birgers face in the pic )
>>61578968Birger "Red sub gonna sunk" Ek.Finns did a lot of things first. Artillery warfare included. There must have been more than a handful of autistic soldiers with specific orders to make the most out of the old and lacking instruments they had. Pic relevant.
>>61578985In pic the brainchild of a genius. Artillery general Nenonen transformed the role of the artillery spotter. After ww2 those ideas were transferred to the us army by Marttinen and his officers. That artillery innovation should be a thread in its own.
>>61568271Still existed as an independent nation after WW2 so suck my cock
>>61578985The fact that the techniques perfected by Nenonen and company are still in use today is just insane. That guy truly was a master-tier artillery autist
>>61578985>>61579252>>61581183Can you explain this, as if I was 5 y/o?I'm a combat engineer, I know how to do big boom by putting more boom on top of other boom, but I' don't know how to send boom far away.
>>61568291>claimed by FinlandSo it was real in their mind.
>>61571270>playing video games as an adult and then showing your NAFO pride in that same video gameHow cringe lol
>>61581929you're right he should be complaining to his congressman about lack of weapons deliveries to Ukraine and highlight the fact the delays cost Ukrainian soldiers lives, not money
>>61572190That looks like a cartoon plane
>>61568055Overachieved so hard they lost twice in the same war.
>>61582078you must work for the americans or something, being so blatantly false is not a pro-Russia narrative, do these kinds of false flags really work among your populace? they don't work among mine
>>61582133
>>61581308The trick was to guide a scattered battery to fire at the same point, much much faster than ever before. Soviets couldn't spot the Finnish cannons because they were so smol smol and easy to hide in terrain. But Finns could deliver the rain on any spotted Soviet URAAAA rush. Finns were min-maxing fire control before computers.
>Prussia fights France: France concedes border territories to Prussia>outcome: Prussian victory>Germany fights France: Germany concedes border territories to France>outcome: French victory>Hungary [forced to] concede multiple border territories to neighbors>outcome: [due to] Hungarian defeat>Germany threatens Czechoslovakia: Czechoslovakia concedes border territory to Germany>outcome: Czech defeat>Soviet Union fights Finland: Finland concedes border territories to Soviet Union>outcome: GLORIOUS FINN VICTORY>Finland fights Soviet Union again next year: Finland concedes more border territory to Soviet Union>outcome: GLORIOUS FINN VICTORYyeah
>want moar land for mother rasha>Finlandia has land for sharings>politely ask Finland for land>is no>invade Finlandia>Lose four and a half men for every finn you kill>embarrassed on the world stage>finally manage to drag them into negotiations and make them share their land>hold on to it for one year>Germoney invades>bomb Finlandia on reflex>this angers the finn>watch as they retake the land you sacrificed over 300k men to take>Fast forward to 2020 + 4 and the only thing regular people know about the winter war is that some country bumpkin slotted 300+ Russians without even using a scopeHas there ever been a victory made by commies that wasn't a hollow, pyrrhic one? The only one that comes to mind is the Cambodian-Vietnamese war, but even then it was won against other commies, and further proves my theory that Ho Chi Minh remains the only slightly based commie to have ever walked the earth.
>>61582293absolutely, if someone tries to murder you and you live, you win, no matter what some moron tells you
>>61582603>Has there ever been a victory made by commies that wasn't a hollow, pyrrhic one?the russian civil war, russia lost that one hard
>>61568151>32:1 kill/loss ratiogiven the typical overclaiming of aircraft kills for the last 100 years, that's more like a 11:1 KDRstill impressive of course
>>61582235>The trick was to guide a scattered battery to fire at the same point, much much faster than ever beforeokay so how did they do that?
>>61582637Czechs must be the best military strategists in history: they got the same flawless victory at Munich in 1938 as the Finns got at Moscow in 1940, except the Czechs didn't have to fire a shot.
>>61582983Not WW2, but Jan Zizka is easily in the top 3 of the greatest military commanders in human history.
>>61582603The Soviet objective was to take total control of Finland, not just some land. The military plans, artillery supply logs, naval timetables, new marching song when entering Helsinki, etc. All of it was made to conquer Finland.They failed.
>>61581929>associating national flags with any Twitter movement (Twitter isn’t real) as an adult As, if not more, embarrassing.
>>61582657Real figure is probably less than 32:1 but maybe not by that much. The finnish system required a wreck to be found or 2nd hand visual confirmation of the shot down all the way to ground or water for it to be awarded. I believe unconfirmed ones would only be counted as halfs/damaged ones and only be added in squadron's list, not personal. The figures are probably very accurate at least when the front was more or less stationary from late 41 to early summer 44. Buffalos mostly operated on Karelian isthmus and over Gulf of Finland where troop density was high and many kills were observed. Same goes for many kills by Bf 109s as they operated the first year and a half of their service almost solely on the Gulf and basically every engagement was observed from islands and vessels.
>>61582293It’s almost as if you gain vital territory through simply threatening an enemy that is a victory while if you sacrifice hundreds of thousands of men for basically nothing that’s not the same thing.
>>61568055target rich environment plus the early war Soviet air force was incredibly inept. >>61568271Glad to know you're still seething after 80 years Ivan. Finland still exists, Helsinki never fell under Soviet occupation and neither regime change nor annexation occurred. If achieving operational objectives is not a factor in the Russian definition of victory, I would very much like to know what it means then. >>61571270disgusting, tasteless, retarded, and quite possibly reddit. Get rid of everthing except the Ukrainian colors on the tail. Kill marks should also be like 5 times smaller at the very least. >>61568666Human life in Communist countries has negative value, especially in Russia where most of their history has been perpetual suffering even before Communism. Not only that, but the third world mindset inherently places value first world lives above their own, so when combined you get some insane results.
>>61581929Flags on vehicles caused once such a massive chimpout the devs had to temporarily disable their use and get rid of chat
>>61584865>visual confirmation of the shot down all the way to ground or waterother militaries did that too, and still suffered from overclaimingto this day even with radar assistance and millions of cameras, Ukraine claims about 3 times more aircraft destroyed than verified wrecksthe 3:1 overclaiming ratio is a very broad rule of thumb, but IMHO it works
>>61584890We dont know what Ukraine thinks theyve actually hit or shot down or damaged on the ground internally. Propaganda posters are a separate thing.There were multiple lines of fortified islands, manned by Finns and Germans, plus mines and submarine nets across the Gulf to block Soviet navy from escaping Leningrad. When planes had to close within a hundred meters or so and shot-downs were only awarded when observed by another party, and this happened every time, then number of seen shot downs sets the minimum. The outermost islands such as this one https://www.google.com/maps/@60.2060936,27.6440578,2245m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu could actually had direct line of sight to nearest soviet bases and they kept counting planes that took off and landed. Plus some damaged planes that made it home crashed anyway or were written off.Its similar to Jap aircraft attacking a fleet off Okinawa in daylight. Theres nothing uncertain about how many attacked or minimum number of how many got shot down because its all seen and often filmed and wrecks can be counted. Except we talk about formations of 4 to about 20 planes at a time instead of hundreds like in the Pacific.I think the stats are much more inaccurate when it comes to kills recorded in the mayhem of summer 1944 and those in Eastern Karelia by P-36s and Moranes. B-239s achieved 17 recorded victories in mid 1944 and thats the figure thats very likely to be much smaller than that.
>>61582669Field Observer's simple corrections: "200 m left, 100 m forward" are used to spin the wheel and adjust in a moment, in all fire batteries in range. The artillery does not need to do any calculations. The artillery fire-control officer doesn't need to know the directions of his cannons. He just gives the order and target co-ordinates, plus range and direction from the FO's point. Each artillery uses their own FCC to adjust and send their gifts towards the Soviets.The best moments for this were during the Tali-Ihantala battles. A gathering Red army battalion got ready for URAAA, only to be met with 250 cannons saturating the 200 x 200 meter area for one minute. Thus creating an ex battalion. This was repeated again, and again, and again, and again. Finns could use a practically instant and massive barrage, from an artillery force that was clearly smaller than the Red army's. The notes from Soviet officers told how they were terrified of this kind of artillery power. Their aerial intelligence showed that Finns didn't have the same kind of massed artillery fields behind their lines, so there's no real need to worry about Finnish artillery, comrade.And then the reality hits them. So how on blyat could they do something like that?All thanks to major Unto Petäjä, the artillery school instructot who invented the Fire-correction circle.Also read some notes from Forward Observation officer Jouko Lehtonen.https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=2010855#p2010855
>>61582669>man with wheel of death direction is out there with a friend who has radio and their riflemen escort>see russian evil communist>radio to cannon >direction 0090 3 boom shoot>cannon know where death wheel man is>death wheel man don't know where cannon is, he doesn't need to>cannon shoot 3 boom>3 boom land 50 meter in front and 75 meter left of russian>death wheel man radio back to cannon>50 forward right 75 6 boom shoot>cannon shoot 6 boom>russian die>death wheel man continue on his way
>>61568271Im a finn so you know my bias but even if i try i can't see the logic. You have the SOVIET UNION. The largest army in the world againts a country of farmers who just came out of civil war. Don't have a real army of any sorts. Then you go after horrible losses "well you didn't take Moscow so it's a win". Who the fuck tought we ever would have taken Moscow when our population is less than the city of Moscow or snt.pidorsburg
>>61588820You can't see the logic of admitting that giving up territory as an irrelevant country of farmers to one of the strongest powers in the world at the time is a loss? And then allying with one of the other strong powers when they were winning, invading to retake your lost land, and then losing even more when your ally starts losing, is another loss?If Sweden invaded Norway and took 10% of their territory nobody would have a problem acknowledging a Swedish victory. But if France invaded and took 10% of the Norwegian territory, that would be a Norwegian victory just because France is much stronger than Norway? It doesn't make sense.
>>61590038NTAWhat land they took was mostly negligible, useless forest. I will concede a minor loss in that the Finnic tribes of Karelians etc. were lost and genocided, but Finland itself has been independed from the 1910s. That is a win
>empire of mexico declares victory over usa, citing irrelevant empty desert territories ceded while remaining an independent state after weathering brutal invasion
>>61590038Can you tell us what was the Red army's objective against Finland?
>>61590270Can you?
>>61590418Yes. Capture all of Finland as it was left for Stalin in the Molotov-Ribbentrop deal. That's why they had orders to take Helsinki.
>>61568666Check'd. Yeah commies are faggots lol what else is new
>>61590433>it can be deduced
>>61572090That was a really cool read, thanks for sharing anon. Finland's exploits in WW2 never cease to surprise me.
