Why isn't it more popular?
>>61564599Obesity
>>61564599>Why isn't it more popular?Because it's pretty mediocre, and expensive on top of that. At 380 and up cartridges stop having much statistically significant difference in defense performance, but 32 or 25 really are much worse. Have other issues as well, but that's the basic one. Doesn't help that you then pay 38cpr minimum on top.
>>61564599Shit-tier killing power.The vast majority of .25ACP pistols are unreliable and very difficult to shoot accurately.
>>61564599Because some anons grandpa bought all of it
>>61564599I will sex your mum.
>>61564652
Remember that anon who inherited 3 pallets (tens of thousands of rounds) of .25acp from his grandad and was asking what he should do with it? Wonder what happened with him in the end.
>>61564599They used to be very popular back in the day because they were so cheap. Quite a lot of "Saturday night specials" were .25 ACPs. Those are off the market for two reasons. First legislation killed that super low-end market, second as other anons pointed out the cartridge is extremely weak and the guns are hard to shoot well because they are so small and awkward to grip and many are shit quality, so anyone that's interested in the performance of their carry gun and can make informed decisions would avoid them.
>>61564659>>61564652Lol shit I made this comment>>61564672Before I started scrolling down
>>61564599Because its a shit round used in the shittiest of shit ass dogshit gutbuster pieces of shit. I'm pretty sure the world record in .25 is two rounds without jamming. Also good luck hitting anything further than arms reach. tldr; objectively worse at putting holes in 'future doctors' than a screwdriver.
>>61564599Because it sucks
>>61564599If it was good enough for Blokhin it's good enough for me
.25 acp should have replaced 22lr as the cheap buy it by the bucket round. Same power but .25 is centerfire so its more reliable, and the semi rim means it works better in autoloaders but can still be used in revolvers
>>61565232Then ur mom is .25acp! Snork!
>>61565278>he brought a briefcase full of his own Walther pistols, since he did not trust the reliability of the standard-issue Soviet TT_30 You can say a lot about him but you can't say he wasn't committed to his trade.
>>61564643.32 revolver cartridges are fine, .32 ACP is okay if you aim for the head
>>61565278>shoulder length leather gloves>Walther 2Yea ok, I think more research might be needed here.
>Raven ArmsWhat a piece of fucking shit
>>61565421Is that thing suppressor ready?
>>61565322I think it could have if they made target pistols and hunting rifles chambered for it.
>>61565421If your pudgey finers are too fat to use a small pisol while wearing gloves then you should probably just kys
>>61564599There was an import ban in the 60s that completely destroyed the market for small caliber pistols and the market never recovered. The cheap low quality american guns that came to market to replace the imported ones is where the term "saturday night specials" came from and gun stores will still turn their nose up at them even though they're literally the only guns they made that shoot 25 or 32 that aren't antiquesThe ballistics of 25 acp are superior to 22lr but the issue is that all of the guns designed for 25 acp were designed a hundred years ago or designed to be as cheap as possible. there are way more 22lr guns than 25 acp guns even though for a lot of reasons 25 acp is superior>>61564648the people who say this stuff are just retarded or misinformed. this sterling works fine and it's an absolute fucking stinker of a gun. 25 acp has way more energy than 22lr out of a 3 inch barrel because nobody has ever made a 25 acp gun with a barrel longer than 3 inches. nobody makes slow burning 25 acp loads. you have to buy that retarded expensive self defense 22 if you want to be in the same ballpark as 25 acp
>>61564599Because when a drugged up nigga be pullin up and all pumped up with fent ya lil tweent fuv aint gonna do shit on dat nigga he gonna take it like iron mang n sheeit
>>61565486COME AT ME BRUH
>>61565555Not even .357 sig can't stop this unit. I kneel.
>>61565519>25 acp has way more energy than 22lr out of a 3 inch barrelNo way. They're about the same on average with some .22LRs being significantly better.Source of data: ballisticsbytheinch.com
>>61565322Rimfire is why 22lr is able to be made so cheap. Even today a loaded 22lr costs the same as a primer.
>>6156464340 cents for bullets seems pretty shit in comparison to common cartridges or if you're comparing how much bullet you get per bullet but 25 acp is hardly expensive when you look at all the ammo thats in common use. 32 smith and wesson is seriously twice the price and it's all lead ammo. .32 magnum is over a dollar a round. i'll sell that gun in a heartbeat but im keeping the 25
>>61565576the BBTI data definitively shows that 25 acp is superior to 22 out of extremely short barreled guns, and keep in mind we are literally talking about guns that have barrels shorter than 2 inches
>>61565584isnt it cheap due to its popularity? Same thing with 9mm
>>61565630At three inches the 25 auto ranges from about 75 to 90 ff-lb.Meanwhile only the standard velocity 22 was worse than that, with the others ranging from about 75 to 90--just like .25 Auto. Anon's claim was .25 auto had "way more energy" out of a 3" barrel. It does not. It has about the same given average ammo.>and keep in mind we are literally talking about guns that have barrels shorter than 2 inchesWhy are you moving the goalposts from the 3 inch figure which anon stated to some new "shorter than 2 inches" figure? And even then it's not true, the 2" data from BBTI shows them both the same at about 70 ft-lb average.
>>61564599Its really expensive for what it is. I'm not paying 9mm prices for .25 acp.
>>61565678>isnt it cheap due to its popularity?Volume is part of it, but think about it from a manufacturing perspective. There are far fewer steps to make .22LR compared to a centerfire cartridge. There's only two steps to form the case--draw the body and balloon the rim--and those can both be done on presses, which is fast and simple. A semi-rimmed centerfire case requires multiple steps to form the brass, at least one of which is turning to make the rim, That alone is far more complex. Then there's the matter of making the cup and the anvil for the primer, assembling them together, and inserting the primer in the case--all of that is a lot more complex than just squirting some primer compound into the rim. Not only is there more work to be done but there is also precision required, if the parts aren't perfectly sized the primer either falls out of the round or it goes boom in the loading machine while it's being inserted. Volume and popularity explains why 9mm costs less than .25, but there's no way either could be made as cheap as a rimfire round.
>>61565278>>61565421God imagine being executed by this gooch gun
>>61566083Anything js better than having to live as a Pole
>>61565727i dunno i did the math like a year ago and this shit is all off the top of my head man. obviously i'm right because you're trying to split hairs over the three inches figure when im obviously talking about and posted a picture of a mouse gun
>>61564599You might as well use .22LR.
>>61566099Well except for living as a Russian or an Italian
>>61565576based Stingers
I wish beretta made a factory new .25ACP.
>>61566605I wish they'd bring back the Model 20
>>61565576>ballisticsbytheinch.comyou're referring to the contender data because the real gun data straight up just backs up what the original anon said about 25 acp being a better choice than 22lr unless you're using high velocity meme 22 ammoand at 3 inches yeah 22 is better because nobody ever made a 25 acp gun that long
>>6156628322lr ammo is terrible for SD and I’ve had dozens of issues with “self defense” 22lr ammo
>>61564599Carland males have masculinity issues and always want bigger because they think its better
>>61566847>22lr ammo is terrible for SD and I’ve had dozens of issues with “self defense” 22lr ammoRevolvers were literally invented for rimfire ammo. Revolvers for rimfire, pistols for centerfire, ship those wrongly chambered guns back to Africa, ship those guns back.
>>61566758That's because the results of the comparison are exactly the same between the two: the .25 ACP only beats the two weakest 22 loadings, and on average is no better.The 950 Jetfire makes 65, 67, and 68 ft-lb with the three rounds given.The only weaker 22 loads are the 27 and 29gr standard velocity. Everything else on the 22 list is equal to or superior.
>>61566758For what it's worth, Buffalo Bore makes some 50 and 60 grain .25 acp loads advertised at 850/875 fps. Some guy on the bbti forums tested them and pretty much got the advertised velocities in a couple pocket rockets. They supposedly meet the minimum FBI penetration criteria too, which you're probably not reliably getting from ultralight high velocity .22lr.
>>61566605>>61566711>950 Jetfire>Model 20lol. I have both. Worked on the factory floor in '82 doing barrel rifling before the barrels were heat treated. I absolutely fucking hated it. Bought a Model 20 a couple of years ago to keep as a reminder.
>>61565519>>61565576You be the judge : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDOhwucT8QU>>61565630>we are literally talking about guns that have barrels shorter than 2 inchesName half a dozen.
Paul Harrell carries a Baby Browning in .25 ACP, if it's good enough for him, it'd be good enough for me
>>61567139TL:DR;Extremely similar ammo performance in identical pocket pistols. Energy/velocity variances of about 10%, uniformly poor penetration, and no hollowpoint expansion. Though not specifically called out during the analysis, some of the .22LR ammo also had velocity deviations of as much as 15% between rounds in the same magazine, while the .25 ACP was much more consistent.The .22LR gun malfunctioned repeatedly, with an average of about 1.25 malfs per magazine, while the .25 malfed just once due to admitted user error. The .25 was substantially more accurate, though just as difficult to aim.
>>61564599It has all the power of .22 LR but is more expensive than 9mm and nearly all of the guns in the caliber kinda suck.
>>61564599I like them, they are cheap and fun to shoot, I wouldn't use it as my daily but that won't stop me from buying them for $100
>>61564599I dunno, I like how small they are, you can fit them in a prison wallet
>>61565576Neat, I don't have penetration calcs on me but it'd be interesting to see if the extra 10gr on 25 auto allow it to average deeper penetration or if the larger diameter sets it back.Min/maxing if both have same penetration then 25 auto will have the diameter advantage and likely the reliability average. In this realm, I think it's safe to say recoil isn't a factor. Personally with 25 auto versus 32 auto in small enough guns I can see recoil being a factor.
>>61570485>>61564681I think the laws limiting them are stupid but now that criminals use full power duty rounds and glock switches are we really any safer? I don't even see hipoints anymore in police and shooting videos. It seemed like all the law did was push people predisposed to murder to use more effective weapons.
>>61564599The words, Vanity Gun come to mind. It's the other end of the spectrum of buying too much gun for the job. Sure, your nice pocket gun is cute and hard to spot but does it really do anything your .38 snubby doesn't do better? You'll get a marginal gain on concealment but you just might have to dump the magazine into an opponent to stop a charge/attack.
>>61566940it's super fucking marginal i'll give you that but if the terminal ballistics are so close then the capacity advantage and the reliability advantage of centerfire end up being pretty valuable, and then when you consider that there are super hot 25 acp loads like >>61566956 that are much more powerful than the standard loading then the comparison starts to really favor 25>>61567139>Name half a dozen.FIE titanthe beretta minx/bobcat/etctaurus pt-22/pt-25astra cubsterling 300, 302, 380armi galesi made one, the 503?the tanfoglio 27the bryco/jennings/raven shitcannonsFN baby browningcolt 1908 vest pocket and juniorwalther model 9every revolver manufacturer and model
>>61570842boomers will legitimately write paragraphs like this thinking it sounds smart when this piece of shit pocket pistol is double the capacity of a 38 special revolver. maybe snubnoses made sense back in the 70s but you can buy a real semi auto for less than the price of a snubnose or for even cheaper you can get a saturday night specialits mostly the fact that barrier for entry for a snubnose is like $300 for some filipino piece of shit or like $600 for some dogshit smith and wesson when you can get classic american steel like this for less than a hundred bucks
>>61573114I've always wondered why nobody just made a full-size .25 with a massive magazine capacity.
>>61566083I actually shed a real, physical, tear. No idea why this was so fucking funny.
>>61564599hello there :3
>>61573929Based Einhand enjoyer.
>>61567256Paul Harrell lives in an area with no methheads so he can afford to carry a tiny gun with bad sights and a crap trigger. Other people who aren't as lucky may have to get a larger handgun with better features.>>61573676.25 ACP is semi-rimmed, so it'll work well in revolvers and autoloaders, but many people don't realize that most of these autoloaders are single-stack and that is because its challenging to make a reliable double-stack for a semi-rimmed round.
>>61574421He lives in Oregon, the same state that made every drug legal, there's plenty of crackheads/meth heads/fentheads here
>>61564599Because I'm not a pimp from the 1970's.>>61574421>Lives in Oregon>killed like 5 people in self defense incidents>no methheads>you don't need a gun that doesn't have bad sights and a crap trigger.What? That is just plain wrong. The pacific northwest is Chicago for white people and nothing you can say will convince me otherwise.
>>61564599>ammo isn't cheap>round is anemic>guns are usually dogshit t. sometimes pocket carries a titan 25 with hornday ftx anyways
>>61570815The law was just a way to try and prevent minorities from getting weapons.
>>61573012>>>61567139>>Name half a dozen.>FIE titan2.48 inches>the beretta minx/bobcat/etc2.4 inches>taurus pt-22/pt-252.3 inches>astra cub2.25 inches>sterling 300, 302, 3802.25/ 2.5/ not sure confusing google results that I'm not sifting through>armi galesi made one, the 503?>the tanfoglio 272.48 inches>the bryco/jennings/raven shitcannons>FN baby browning2.11 inches2.11 inches>colt 1908 vest pocket and junior2 inches>walther model 92 inches>every revolver manufacturer and modelSo you've named precisely ZERO (0) guns with barrels less than 2 inches. Well done Anon. Well done.
>>61574668since everyone seems to be posting their 25s in this thread
>>61574730lol this nigga spent time pulling up the pistols one by onewell played
>>61564599it's .32 that should be more popular
>>61574421Is not Paul Harrel's philosophy that you should use boomer style guns for optics reasons?I rhink in one of his videos he said he owns a Winchester 1897 for home defense; and that tacticool stuff might scare normies and get you in trouble if you use it for self defense
>>61564648So stopping powah chuds were rightIt is not a myth and shot placement is not all you need
>>61573012nigga you got fucked like a bitch>>61574730
>>61575148They act like two legends cannot coexist
>>61575294stop samefagging anon
>>61574730arent most S&W snubbies like 1.88 inch barrelsAnd now that I think about it, autos count the chamber as part of the barrel and revolvers dont. So what are we counting as barrel length?
>>61575148Based I just got a 1903 hammerless the other day from a gun show, it carries more comfortably than my j frameAnyone know if those screwdriver rounds perform well for .32 ACP?
>>61574730you ARE subtracting the chamber, right? like the BBTI guys?
>>61574656>killed like 5 people in self-defense incidentsYes, he did. Now tell everyone here, in how many of those incidents did he use a .25 acp and in how many of those incidents did he use a different gun? Look, if you own one and want to use it then great (I'd rather you carry rather than not carry), but be honest, those guns can have drawbacks.>>61574668>round is anemicMy problem isn't the round, its that most of the guns that fire it are really low quality.>>61575159He also owns a beretta 92fs and multiple AR-15 (one of those AR-15s were used in one of his self defense situations). Maybe he was trying to psy-op his viewers into buying something new and unique rather than getting their third Glock or fifth AR.
>>61577025>My problem isn't the round, its that most of the guns that fire it are really low quality.>>guns are usually dogshit
>>61564599A Finnish member of parliament fired one in a bar and destroyed his career like a week ago.
>>61564599People no longer dress in a way where it's advantageous
If you want the tiniest gun you can reasonably manipulate with adult human hands, 32acp is small enough to suit that.
>>61575148>>61577640I thought /k/ always said .32 was junk though because it's smaller than 9mm??
>>61577692It's right on the borderline of junk, and being expensive pushes it over.
>>61576057yeah they're what you want. they do more damage than an fmj and penetrate 18". expanding hollow points in .32 penetrate like 10" max.
>>61577277I thought the Finns, of all people, would understand vodka
>>61574708based
>>61564599Well lets give you a real answer.Its Old.Its not Popular (duh).Its Obsolete.Back in the days people didnt have access to subcompact handguns.Also you didnt have Roided out Meth Apes run around and tank a whole Magazine like it was a Airsoft gun.25ACP is still a lethal round when you have the right shot placement but youd rather want something that doesnt rely so much on shot placement since who can guarantee you can hit your shots in a stressful situation ?Unless you are some crazy person whos trained to the edge of human capacity, Id recommend you to get nothing less than subcom 9mm gun for that purpose.
>>61576913BBTI doesn't subtract the chamber, I'm not sure where you're getting that from.
>>61577692>because it's smaller than 9mm??I've never heard anyone complain about it being "too small". That said people often bitch about it because it's too weak and has insufficient penetration.
>>61580047Think they're too overpressure for a 1903?
>>61575779>arent most S&W snubbies like 1.88 inch barrelsYes, but you're not that Anon, and that's only one, not a half dozen. And I'm not really sure I'd count a S&W snub nose as a "mouse gun". I would count the NAA Mini revolvers. Those things are miniscule.>So what are we counting as barrel length?By convention we count the chamber as part of the barrel length when it's a non-revolver hand gun, or a non-revolver rifle. When it's a revolver the barrel length is the barrel length because the cylinder is not a part of the barrel.
>>61564656You stood her up last time. We waited at Cracker Barrel all morning, fucker.
Are Bauer 25s good? Local shop has a stainless pearl grip for tree fiddy
>>61564599Because it’s not very good. Only person I knew who actually carried one took her clothes off for a living so she had reason to need a tiny carry option, everyone else just buys something that doesn’t suck
>>61566847How does doublefeed occur? Is it the ejecting spent casing not getting out fast enough or the magazine or the shape of the cartridge itself?
>>61580592>youd rather want something that doesnt rely so much on shot placementI can't conceal a cannon that shoots 9-pound balls, so I'm forced to use a gun in which shot placement is important (like a 9mm).
>>61582193I don't think so but inspect your gun first. Lots of ammo in the past was +p by modern standards.>>61577692it's more comparable to 380, like 150 ft/lbs instead of 220. better sectional density bullets though, it's more like 9 on that count. was the most popular carry caliber in Europe for a long time. people say it's weak because they're set on hollow points, and 380 isn't any better at that.
>>61567062If you don't mind, can you tell us what the rifling process was like? Also, how much did they heat treatment change the final dimensions?
>>61580522Not really because fucks everyone involved not only blacks and browns
>>61584432that's unfortunate, if only there was a way
>>61564599John Browning (pbuh) developed the .25 auto as a more reliable replacement for the .22LR in semi-auto pistols but nowadays with improved quality control, there really isn't a need for it.
>>61583267I have one. The pearl grips cracked the first time I shot it. I think they were over-tightened after being removed. She's a little snappy and useless beyond 10 yards, but it hides nicely.
>>61583537First, have George design a good gun. Then, copy George's gun, and start changing it in ways you don't understand until it becomes worse. That's how you LCP/LCPII/LCPMax/EC9/LC9/Sec9/Ruger all over yourself.
>>61586100i remember there was one gun that hit the rim/primer in 2 places instead of 1 and it was supposed to increase the reliability
It sucks. 0 penetration.
>>6156459922lr is cheaper and just as reliable.
>>61584381>If you don't mind, can you tell us what the rifling process was like? As this was 42 years ago I'll try to remember. Place barrel in fixture. Chamber side facing rifling tool, muzzle facing fixture. Pneumatic piston pushes tool chamber to muzzle. Fixture rotates to put twist in rifling. Release air pressure and tool retracts and counter rotates barrel. Quick inspection for satisfactory tooling and hand deburr anything if necessary.>Also, how much did they heat treatment change the final dimensions?No clue. I was a 17yo bored out of my mind working there 'cause Dad was an exec. Did get to shoot plenty of funs, including a 93R.
