>>196409175
No, I grew up in Ireland and even the most freakish looking nerd has some charisma and ability to tell a joke. Only Muslim immigrants don’t have sex and if you’re a virgin native you deserve it for being weird.

>>196409213
No I seriously have noticed this. Especially Brits/Irish, they party hard and are pretty accepting and even people with tons of flaws can get laid.

In North America people are stuck up and exclusive

>>196409213
Agreed even if you sexpat in Asia , they will label you as lbh that thinks he slay overseas

>>196409175
Nope, getting laid in America is waaay easier.
Go to Netherlands or Germany while being under 180cm and see what happens

>>196409396
I think I could get laid there by being a foreigner. Even if most don’t like us it always can be used as a perk. Also Germans are autistic as fuck and introverted which I think might make it easier if you’re even remotely normal and outgoing.

I think UK would be easiest tho

>>196409396
That doesn’t matter because most native Dutch are tall, and pro sexual freedom. Not to mention they attend proper schools that encourage social behaviour and personal development. If you’re in the USA you could get unlucky and end up in a ghetto school where 90% of kids will be dead before 20 and that will destroy your self-esteem and social skills.

>>196409477
This as well

People are less judgemental, and so open to sex I would not be surprised if their women fucked Manlets more often actually. Height, status, money, dick size etc obsession is also a hyper competitive American thing

>>196409175
not without actively trying to.
>>196409396
if all you have to show of in life is status/stature then yes europe is hell for you and usa might serve you better.

>>196409175
Sweden is judgemental as shit and very anti scoial

>>196409713
Can you elaborate? I agree it’s just interesting to get the European perspective on this. I’ve always said this. Europe is just way more focused on living life and socializing, USA has a lot of barriers to that that are hard to describe.

>>196409175
We have most incels per capita of any country, I'm pretty sure. Even completely normal guys are often virgins in their early twenties.

>>196409867
I thought Germany was like the UK, party centric and sex positive. Do you at least agree the uk is sex land?

>>196409175
I am an incel
but yeah in order to be a virgin in europe you'd have to be either ugly or a loser. society doesn't care

>>196409904
Sex positivity probably hurts the average guy more than it helps him. Idk about the UK.

>>196409175
People are very judgmental here

>>196409175
Don't forget the fact they have walkable cities and third places
So advice like "go outside" actually works in Europe
Unlike in Incelmerica
Couple in the fact that the car you drive isn't tied to your SMV since you can live perfectly fine without a car there
And owning or renting your own place isn't tied to your SMV since rent is either affordable or it's socially acceptable to live with your parents for as long as you want, even forever.
You can't suffer in Europe

>>196409396
>and see what happens
women in the US are far more heightist than other countries.

>I don't want anyone shorter than 6ft
is a common mindset for women here.

>>196410543
>heightist
Kek manlet

>>196410477
You’re spot on about the car. Girls here will literally date a guy because he has a car and not having one is a serious deal breaker as you age

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>>196409175

>>196410477
Americans suffer less because they can compensate by doing well financially. All German girls fuck the same 10% of men.

>>196409713
Most accurate take so far, at least in my experience
>>196409175
Okay, take it from an aging borderline boomer who's traveled quite a bit and spent time in US on two occasions.
>Women in US are way more open to the subject of sex than anywhere in Europe. I've heard them publicly just start subjects like "I recently tried anal for the first time, with someone I probably shouldn't have with" or "so he gives me this big ass dildo and tells me 'yeah, train your pussy for my cock' and he starts jacking off. I'm like, bro, your shit's not even that big". Which blew my fucking mind. Shit like this would immediately put you on 'that fucked up weirdo' shelf in Europe
>I've dated+gotten laid with girls from Lithuania, Poland, Belarus, Russia, Netherlands, Spain, Dominican Republic, Colombia, India, Philippines, Japan(albet it was a Chinese work migrant to Japan).
>I was never particularly attractive. And I was never any good at 'pick-ups', one night stands, etc. For me, all those relationships started by striking up a conversation (a few of which were online and then actually meeting later) and either it being mutually fun to talk to, having some common interests, a similar sense of humor. Leads to some type of relationship. Leads to getting laid.

>The problem I had with trying to get laid in US was that common interests, fun convos together and making her laugh because you have the same sense of humor - simply puts you in the friend zone.

>>196409175
>>196411132
>The only women that took a romantic interest in me in the US were:

>1. A rather shy sweetheart who had Mexican immigrant parents and did not seem typical there at all
>2. Two (very)chubby virgin girls from Tennessee with strict christian conservative parents(we all just talked as friends, though BOTH started dm'ing me behind each other's back and being very up front, but I didn't pull the trigger on either).
>3. A girl from Montana, who grew up adopted, had daddy issues and had just gone through a breakup and wanted to rebound
>4. A single latina immigrant to Florida who in reality just wanted a daddy for her 3 kids.

>So, zero typical US girls/girl next door types. For all my time in US, I literally got laid twice. With a gal that had daddy issues and was just after a breakup. She was already on to some other guy after that.
>What I noticed females in US prioritized above all else, which seemed to be why I had such trouble trying to get dates+get laid:

>How 'cool' you are, how trendy and stylish you are given the time, what brands you wear, what car you drive, how popular you are(I didn't have a car back when I was in US. But that hadn't stopped me in any other country...)
>Physical attraction obviously plays a role in every country, but nowhere near as much as in the US(at least in my experience). They'll obsess over something so surface level like if all your teeth are perfectly even and pearly-white.

>I honestly believe the "few percent of guys get (insert huge percentage of women) as that's what women go for" is mostly a USA is not nearly as representative of most of the world outside the US.

>I feel like the dating culture and women's choice of standards in USA is just very unfavorable for most simple/average-ish guys.

>>196409175
>>196409271
Maybe British/Irish are different compared to most of the rest of Europe, Asia, South America, etc. 0 experience with those.

>>196409271
What growing up in a walkable city where you can leave your house without needing to be driven by your parents, not being held back by dumb Puritan values, and being allowed to drink and fuck at 14 does to a mf. It's no coincidence that emo music comes from the suburbs of the Midwest in America, it's the only place in the world where such a subculture could've formed.

>>196410639
Lol why?

USA is the land of amateur porn tho

>>196411257
Nobody waits till they’re 21 to drink and most people aren’t puritanistic. Europeans are much more puritan than we are

>>196411257
Good point about the emo. You nailed it dude. Midwest is depressing as fuck and breeds virgins. No fun allowed puritans here. It’s sad. Nothing to do. Europe is the complete opposite

>>196411314
Hypergamy

>>196411404
The midwest is literally just like scandinavia.

>>196411404
what a bizarre assertion
a lot of europe is very boring

>>196409987
i'm incel too, i think being an incel is a lot more common in eastern europe than western europe because so many of our women move to the west (there are 110 women moving out of poland for every 100 men according to our government data)

>>196411430
I noticed all the shit you mentioned a while ago and I’ve been telling people this but they don’t listen.

If I was born in the UK I’d have gotten laid tons of times by now. Unironically. Dead serious, I think growing up there would’ve change my life completely. Completely different culture. They can claim to be depressed or whatever but they definitely have more fun than us, Midwest is way worse. Idk what the coasts are like, I imagine the incels there are moreso excluded because of elitism and hyper competitiveness. I don’t think that exists so much in London for example.

>>196411452
But it’s not uptight and puritanical like rural USA.

>>196410855
Only encountered a few German women in my lifetime, so kind of talking out of my ass, but they seemed very 'empowered'(relatively speaking).
Had enough of their own money
Had a pretty high standard for me (has to have such and such personality, features, his shit together, otherwise why would I wanna be the 'baby-sitter of the relationship'. "haha you probably DON'T want to be dating a German woman. We know what we want!"). But I haven't encountered any that would be (at least directly) commercial brand or money obsessed. From multiple different places I've heard stereotypes that they'll travel to places like Italy for summer vacation to just 'get their rocks off' with guys there.

Never dated a German girl. Never had sex with one.
I don't know how true that stereotype is about them 'traveling', just heard it from widely different sources.
And I'm not trying to sound demeaning or be an asshole about Germany or the women there.
I mean heck, I'm from east euro. Kek.
Just discussing.

>>196411257
I also noticed that Midwest emo thing a while ago too. Been saying this. The older I got the more apparent it was, especially after moving out.

I realized in other parts of the USA and in Western Europe people have much more active social lives and aren’t so uptight about sex and partying, and do it from young ages. Whereas I was this mid 20s worker drone incel and it really seemed like it was my location causing it. It’s so hopeless in the Midwest, it’s insane, like euros can’t comprehend it. Scandinavia is definitely close but even they have a couple of cities like Stockholm. Midwest genuinely has nothing. I’ve driven hours with nothing but cornfields and gas stations and every town and subdivision is the same. Once in a while you get a lame small city. Chicago’s like the only exception.

I've never understood why people think that sex just inevitably happens
It doesn't

Raising your child in a suburb is the easiest way to make them incels

>>196411573
certain places give you that opportunity way more easily though. See >>196411257

He nailed it. In the USA you can’t go anywhere until 16 (driving age), we don’t have walkable cities. Compare that to a place like London where anyone can hop on the tube and easily meet chicks dtf at the club. And there isn’t that whole puritan shit going on, overbearing parents.


This guy >>196411163
nails it as well, American women expect a hell of a lot or they’ll be embarrassed to be seen with you

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>>196409175
>>196409271
I'm a British kissless virgin (I refuse to use the word "incel", due to political reasons) and it's solely because I have aspergers syndrome.

Women are simply repulsed by men with the 'tism. Particularly in this country. Here, men are expected to be smooth, laid-back and confident. It's literally impossible to be those things if you are an aspie/autist.

I also have a crippling fear of rejection which is so bad that I have been unable to take chances with women, even when they were presenting themselves to me on a silver platter.

I once spent an evening cuddling with a woman in her bed with us both in our underwear, and did NOTHING the entire night. Not because I didn't want to, but because I was deathly terrified of making a move and being rejected. I remember her stroking my chest and my face for ages, and at one point she sat up and just stared into my eyes for a few seconds, like she was expecting me to do something. But I couldn't do ANYTHING. I just kept thinking "What if I screw it up? What if I can't kiss properly? What if I've read her signals all wrong and she isn't into me?"

So yeah, it's pretty damn easy to end up a KHV here if you're like me.

>>196411452
>a lot of Europe is boring

But it’s never far from where the party is going on, and anyone can get there with the train systems. Also, nobody actually lives rurally in Europe like in the USA, it’s very city centric and they’re all interconnected

>>196409175
what? Europe has always been way more uptight and incel-ish than America. Find an American equivalent of Schopenhauer and get back to me.

>>196411653
There seems to be a lot of quirky British girls that (at least pretend to) have autism online. Try one of them, they will probably like it.

>>196411453
Western Europe has more incels because there are significantly more young men than women. Native men also can't date immigrant women, while the reverse does happen.
Several eastern countries actually have more women than men, so your country seems to be an outlier.

>>196411490
>>196411430
>>196411404
Any chance the midwest just has really conservative/christian culture prached there and have really strict parents?
Meanwhile quite a few girls there might be like the chubs I met in Tennessee? :
>>196411163

They had rings of some sort, where apparently their dads had signed some sort of church contract with them, that 'they're committed to their dad(which actually just means not getting laid) until marriage'.

But that's the reason why, I may have guessed, they were so 'thirsty' and curious about what they were missing out on.
Heck, one of them literally just dm'ed me, asking if it's okay to ask me a question and then asking me if I play with myself. When our previous conversations were purely casual...

Well, maybe they're not typical at all. But I would've guessed that they'd be thirsty/curious with what they see referenced everywhere nowadays and being told they can't try. Maybe just need to give 'em the chance to?

>>196411692
How is Europe uptight? They’re way more comfortable with sex and nudity, it’s shown on normal tv there.

They also party way way more and are normie as fuck due to walkable cities

>>196411698
>Several eastern countries actually have more women than men, so your country seems to be an outlier.
only because of women over the age of 60+
there are way more men than women in ages below 30

>>196411707
>Any chance the midwest just has really conservative/christian culture prached there and have really strict parents?
The South is the most religious part of the country by far.

>>196411707
>Any chance the midwest just has really conservative/christian culture prached there and have really strict parents?

I don’t think it’s even that. We moreso have this hangover of puritanical uptight no fun prudish thing, which would likely come from that, but it’s almost a culture thing. also we have that whole unless you’re Chad football captain shit going on you get nothing. It’s a strange place. The Midwest doesn’t have anything for outcasts.

In the uk they always had punk and appreciated eccentrics, in the Midwest those types are shunned and become incels. Anyone who isn’t hyper normal

>>196411692
You have clearly never been to Europe. On a societal level, they have no incel problem. And the women are much less superficial in Europe. They really don't know how good they have it.

>>196409396
I am literally 172 cm and I’ve fucked a dozen girls in America. A couple of them were actually really hot. I also have a deep voice and I don’t act like an insecure dweeb.

>>196411707
Actually I do think the strict parents thing is true though. I don’t know if young people are really Christian anymore.

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>>196411697
>There seems to be a lot of quirky British girls that (at least pretend to) have autism online.
Women with autism have never liked me. I've known quite a few autistic/aspie girls. They were always rude or stand-offish towards me.

And, anecdotally speaking, out of all of the girls who I know for certain liked me, not one of them was autistic. At least not that I know of. And none of them seemed that way either.

I know it sounds rude but I've grown suspicious of autistic girls over the years, because of how they've treated me. It feels like they look down on me for some reason. Like they think they're superior to me.

>>196411769
This, holy shit. European women actually fuck and date average guys. Like, attractive women too, and they don’t think they’re hot shit either.

Where have you been out of curiosity?

>>196411825
UK, Netherlands, Belgium, France, Spain, and Italy. Will hopefully be going to Germany soon for my Masters.

>>196411802
Autistic girls in my experience are sluts, but they’re sluts who try to be different. And they can be quite mean imo.

My impression is that Europeans were more somber because of millenia of wars and other fucked up destructive shit while Americans have always lived life on easy mode since colonial times.

>>196411784
Are you from Cali or some other liberal place though? I think the chciks in those spots are easier. Conservative area is hard mode

>>196411769
>On a societal level, they have no incel problem. And the women are much less superficial in Europe.

Why is this? They’re literally more attractive too. Like the women there just don’t hate men like they do here. They’re much kinder.

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>>196411856
>Autistic girls in my experience are sluts
Idk about that. The ones I've known weren't sluts. They had no problems getting relationships with men though.

I don't mind "slutty" girls because many of them tend to be kinder to me than other women. One of the girls who was friendliest to me at university was a girl who had probably slept with dozens of random different men. But she was just nice, easy to talk with, and complimented me on many occasions.

I prefer those "slutty and friendly" girls compared to an autistic/shy girl who has a low "body-count" but acts superior to me.

>>196411653
you're deeply closeted and not realize it

>>196411872
Elaborate on the relation of this to Inceldom. Are you saying due to the things they’ve gone through, they don’t give a shit about meaningless things like sex and drugs and thus are more casual about it?

That would make sense.

I also think since women had it pretty high up here since we settled (We never really oppressed women much here) they have this bratty bossy bitchy attitude. In Europe i think there’s a hangover that’s made them more feminine and easygoing. Like European women never put up a fight when talking to you like they do here, it gets very annoying.

>>196411898
I've thought about why this might be, and I'd wager it has something to do with:

1. The fact that third wave feminism in the USA has reached delusional levels, where it is basically just a movement to make women not have any accountability for their awful behaviors. Europe mostly stopped at second wave feminism, when women all had equal rights to men.

2. Rampant consumerism and advertisement. Both men and women are indoctrinated from birth through media and ads to believe that their worth (and thus how they view others worth) is related to their personal wealth and belongings and beauty. While all women on some level look for a partner with a healthy level of the things listed, it is ramped up to an extreme in the USA due to, again, the rampant consumerism and advertisement.

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>>196411314
>Lol why?
Same reason we can't make friends.

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>>196411917
I am not. I'm a normal straight cisgender man. I barely even like other men on a personal level, let alone sexually.

You cannot understand my mindset because you do not suffer from aspergers like I do. You will never understand the crippling fear I felt laying there in that bed that night, KNOWING I wanted nothing more than to hold that girl and kiss her passionately, but I just could not make myself do it.

The next morning she said goodbye to me at the door and, as I turned to leave she let out a deep sigh. I asked her "what's wrong?" and she just said "nothing..." To this day I don't even categorically know if that girl liked me, because she never actually SAID that she did.

>>196411769
>On a societal level, they have no incel problem.
1 in 8 German men are still virgins at the age of 26.

>>196412013
Those rankings are for EXPATS trying to make friends in Sweden. Swedes themselves don't have problems making friends throughout their life on a societal level.

>>196411969
I think it could be due to consumerism as well. Euros are a little poorer on average and less materialistic. We have higher wages here, just generally richer.

I agree about the feminism, I think America has influenced them a bit more lately though at least the UK, I’ve seen girls from there do the no accountability thing.

It’s really insane. But Europe in ways is more feminist, there’s less slut shaming and all of that. It seems the sexes are just generally treated more actually equal there, here were a bunch of limp wristed simps who put women on such a pedestal it cucked us all.

>>196412023
>You will never understand the crippling fear I felt laying there in that bed that night, KNOWING I wanted nothing more than to hold that girl and kiss her passionately, but I just could not make myself do it.
I understand I had a very similar experience in high school. I was cuddling with a girl and she wanted to go upstairs to bed with me but I couldn't do it even though I really wanted to
You have to force yourself to let go and develop the aggressive masculine side I think

>>196412023
I had a similar experience. I went on multiple tinder dates with a girl where I basically cuddled her clothed and did nothing. She had to put my hands on her tits and shit to get anywhere. I eventually took my dick out and got a bj and fingered her after sleeping over like 4 times. It was so awkward that when I first got in the bed I was like lying straight with elbows bumping her

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>>196412072
>Swedes themselves don't have problems making friends throughout their life on a societal level
Except we do.

>>196412051
Diggaa according to whomst

>>196412117
>>196412106
>>196412023
It’s funny that no one tells you this, like women never make the first move even when you’re lying there naked.

They really want you to basically rape them. I was scared to do anything but when I did I realized you just have to actually just do it and pseudo rape them, everything made more sense after that. Women are strange.

>>196412072
Bro, it's even worse for natives. If we don't make friends as kids and keep those? We're fucked.

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>>196412106
>You have to force yourself to let go and develop the aggressive masculine side I think
I can't. I am not aggressive. I am not masculine. That isn't to say I'm feminine either. But I think I'm female-brained. I was raised by a single mother. I had no brothers, and most of my cousins who I grew up around were girls.

My style of trying to attract girls was basically "peacocking". I would try to make myself look as nice and well-groomed as possible, dress fashionably, wear fragrant colognes, and would hope to be complimented and approached by women. It took me a very long time to figure out this isn't what you're supposed to do as a man.

>>196412117
>She had to put my hands on her tits and shit to get anywhere.
I need this. This is one of the reasons I don't seek out autistic girls. Because I can't be dealing with a woman who is as shy and apprehensive as I am. I need a confident, forward, openly sexual girl who will tell me what to do. Because I can't do these things by myself.

>>196412051
Show me proof. I keep hearing people say this about Europe, but they are unable to back it up with any evidence. I can show you statistics showing that 60% of young men in the USA are single, but you can't show me any proving your fact. Face it, just because you personally deal with loneliness (which I hope gets better for you), doesn't mean Germany on a societal level deals with that problem.

>>196412149
>women never make the first move even when you’re lying there naked.
>They really want you to basically rape them
Yes maybe I'm autistic but I honestly wish someone had just explicitly told me this.
My high school was very progressive and I was constantly taught feminist shit which said that unless a woman explicitly verbally says please have sex with me it's rape. So I was super afraid
>>196412248
>I was raised by a single mother. I had no brothers, and most of my cousins who I grew up around were girls.
I understand I've a dad but he's not super masculine or anything. And I was always closer to my mom. I'm naturally passive as well which is why I'm saying you have to force yourself to develop a more aggressive side.
youve got to practice just taking things and pushing boundaries. Tap into the mindset you get when you play a competitive video game.

>>196412397
>youve got to practice just taking things and pushing boundaries. Tap into the mindset you get when you play a competitive video game.
I do not play competitive video games.

Anyway, I don't want to "push boundaries" because I'm petrified of becoming "that one creepy guy" who makes moves on women when it's not wanted.

>>196412106
I feel like a few years ago we were constantly fed women like sensitive nice guys, twinks, feminine dudes in general even if masculine looking.

But they NEVER do. They NEVER want that behavior, they’ll always want an aggressive type of behavior. It’s strange really, how did we ever push that shit down people’s throats? Talking 90s to sometime in the 2010s. It’s funny how simple it is though. they just want a macho guy. They always reward it. Even the feminist types.

>>196412074
They really aren't more feminist. Italy definitely isn't, and I don't think Eastern Europe is either. Also, the feminism they have is just generally fair policy. Nothing that gives women more opportunities than men like here. The lack of slut shaming isn't really true either, maybe they are more open about sex, but that doesn't mean they are overly hedonistic and public with it like many people here in the USA are. They view it as a natural part of life. Also, things like abortion are much more heavily restricted in Europe than they are here in blue states. I agree that American culture is once again having a negative influence upon Europe with the more delusional progressive ideologies, which is extremely sad.

>>196412397
No dude I wish someone explicitly told me that too.

Why does nobody ever talk about this shit? Like to actually get women, oddly, a lot of the times it’s just making first move after another repeatedly and aggressively and they just go along with it.

Like, you can just harass and pressure women into nudes and sex, they’ll just do it.

>>196412205
>>196412126
Yes, but most people do make friends as children and in college, right? Then you have those friends for life, unlike here, where people will just leave your life on a whim which leaves you feeling no sense of comfort or of having a home. Also, if so many Swedes want to make more friends, then why isn't it happening?

>>196412486
I think Nordics, Germany, nl, uk I would imagine are more feminist in some ways. But you’re right it’s really just more reasonable. They just aren’t stuck up about sex and arent scared to move relationships forward quicker.

It seems more straightforward if the girl likes you, she likes you, there is no weird bullshit like over here.

UK seems to have shitloads of feminists. TERF island. But it’s different, I think feminists here mostly accept trannies. The feminists are weirdly trad in Europe.

>>196412486
Also, European women generally seem way more intelligent and humorous, way easier to talk to, much less stupid. American girls are SO fucking dumb and even integrate it into their personality, whereas euro ones might actually read books and have interests. Even the dumber euro girls aren’t as obnoxious as the Americans I’m talking about. Hard to explain but I’m sure you know exactly what I mean. America made being an idiot cool.

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>>196412453
Dude, I'm so glad you said that. I've been thinking that for so long. It's the fucking lying that makes me bitter. I was told SO MUCH bullshit about what women were like or what they liked, and it just isn't true. Women lie both to themselves and others about what their real thoughts and desires are like, which leaves men struggling. Eventually through experience you'll learn that it was all bullshit, and what they really like is what women have liked since the dawn of civilization, BUT FUCK, it was heartbreaking realizing that I'd been lied to for so much of my life.

>>196412486
But you’re right, maybe there still is slut shaming. But I noticed in the uk nobody does it that much (I guess there’s the slag thing), but at least there women go on nights out dressed like pornstars. It’s a common occurrence, half their tits out, acting like complete whores nobody bats an eye.

>>196412420
>I do not play competitive video games
Well start doing so then. Nerds are good at impulse control and delayed gratification but that works against you when it comes to sex which requires the opposite mindset.
I think for men you've got to be a bit egotistic and stop worrying about others.

>>196412631
That is the main thing I noticed about Europe women and European women studying abroad here. They are actually enjoyable to talk to and get to know. That is what stuck with me the most, the fact that there are women out there that are enjoyable to be around, are funny, are interesting, are beautiful etc. Basically, everything you'd want in a girlfriend, but they just don't live here. When you meet an American woman you already know all their beliefs, interests, etc, and it is all annoying or retarded.

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>>196411653
>>196412023
>>196412106
>>196412117
>>196412149
>>196412248
>>196412397
>>196412523
A lot of men today are basically latent homosexuals, not in the literal sense but the effeminate passive sense. Not pointing fingers because like all of you I grew up very shy and didn't have a strong masculine figure to point me in the right direction. Had to learn all of this on my own.

You basically just have to start dark-triad maxxing. If you want something then just take it.

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>>196412701
>Well start doing so then. Nerds are good at impulse control and delayed gratification but that works against you when it comes to sex which requires the opposite mindset.
I play video games. But I don't like any online shit like Dota or Counter Strike or LoL or anything like that. Not my thing. I used to play CoD online back in the golden age (CoD4 through to Black Ops 2) but wasn't very good at it.

>I think for men you've got to be a bit egotistic and stop worrying about others.
Can't do it. The consequences of fucking things up are simply too great.

The fact that I have aspergers makes it even more difficult for me, because I worry I don't understand social cues well enough to approach women. It makes it even more likely that I might misread something and approach a woman who is not interested.

The last thing I want to be called in life is "creepy" or "perverted".

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>>196412249
Percentage of men and women living with a partner

I noticed it too when I went to England for a few weeks from my boring Midwest shithole. Basically everyone is a normalfag there. I think because it's dense and everyone is forced to be around each other and like other anons said there is a drinking culture and you can drink at 16 there and they don't have the "helicopter parents" and religion that are common here.

>>196412802
That doesn't give any information about the amount of sex or relationships they have had in the past. Also, not living together does not mean they aren't dating.

>>196412777
>You basically just have to start dark-triad maxxing. If you want something then just take it.
I am not going to become a rapist, dude.

>>196412677
It’s actually insane and it still goes on to this day. Women maybe just don’t want to admit it because it makes them feel bad and they have to maintain a decent image.

Like, imagine if they all came out saying they wanted just some macho dude to aggressively fuck them. It tarnishes any respect we’d have for them. And they say that they like nice guys to placate softer types maybe just to keep the peace.

I’ve noticed women just lie about everything and I think it is evolutionarily in their nature. Some of them take it to psychopathic extents (ie. “Bpd girls”) but a lot often do it just to save face and keep the peace. Women are constantly lying, even to comfort people.

But yeah, it totally threw me off too, not until my mid/late 20s did I realize they just want a stereotypical masculine dude and EVERY SINGLE time they’ll reward it even if the dudes an asshole, just because they don’t want a weak man.

Women don’t even like the sensitive artist musician type really if he’s actually a pussy, they still want to be dominated a bit in bed. They want to feel like they’re with an alpha, basically.

If you really are a sensitive nice guy they’ll just walk all over you, it’s like a shit test. But if you act masculine and have a backbone they actually just cave in and do what you want them to. It’s pretty sad really, but women are the weaker submissive sex.

I’m a younger millennial and we were ALWAYS fed this shit. Zoomers seem to have caught on, and they don’t even bother doing this schtick. Like, gen z women are more open about wanting a masc guy too I’d say. At least in behavior. It’s easier to see with them because they’re such unashamed sluts, but millennial women were more conservative. I think it’s why so much gen z just hates women and treats them like shit, and it works a lot of the time. I don’t think women actually want to be fully abused and beaten, they just want to know you aren’t a pussy.

>>196412856
who said anything about rape?

>>196412826
Who the fuck would they be dating if all the women live with their partners?

>>196412812
>I noticed it too when I went to England for a few weeks from my boring Midwest shithole. Basically everyone is a normalfag there. I think because it's dense and everyone is forced to be around each other and like other anons said there is a drinking culture
None of this helps you if you're like me and can't make the first move on girls (due to autism or other factors).

I can drink for hours and I still won't grow the courage to walk up to a girl and flirt with her.

This country being full of normalfags, if anything, makes it MORE DIFFICULT for me, because people here don't really understand me.

I have never fit in here. I often think I would have had an easier time in life had I been born American.

>>196412677
Here’s another thing I noticed. Obviously all women are different and many are ok with different things physically, but tons of women say they don’t give a shit about height, penises, abs, jawlines etc. (lot of times in the presence of these types of soft guys) and the very same women will also make fun of guys that aren’t 6ft, in shape, or have no chin. They’ll say both things and go back and forth on it. And this goes for other things too. I don’t really understand that part, why they even bother. Maybe to save face or not hurt feelings. But if you look at what women actually do, they are always going for those more masculine guys. Even if he’s a chinlet manlet who just acts macho and confident, it’s just what really gets them wet. They always end up cucking and emotionally abusing the sensitive soft guys. They’ll find a way, some excuse, but they’ll be ok with it when the masc behavior guy does it. It’s very strange. Although I do think there’s a limit and I’m not even saying you have to abuse them (many guys do). I think if you’re macho and too much of an asshole they’ll also end up cucking you.

>>196412867
>It’s actually insane and it still goes on to this day. Women maybe just don’t want to admit it because it makes them feel bad and they have to maintain a decent image.
Yup, this is it. Women are always able to rationalize their disgusting immoral behaviors. They never seem to be able to admit to doing something shitty, and then attempt to fix it.

I will say though, while what are are discussing applies to probably 95%+ of women. I have genuinely met women who really did enjoy a softer, more submissive man. I have been with two women (both American too) who asked me out, led the relationship, and were even dominant in bed. I was also able to be open with them about myself, and them to me, and we would help each other with our problems. It was such a lovely experience, so at least know there are women who don't fit that submissive mold out there. Even if they are INCREDIBLY rare.

>>196412976
Height doesn't matter. Plenty of men who are much shorter than me have had far better luck with women than I've had.

I knew way too many 5'5 midgets at university who had really cute GFs. It infuriated me.

>>196412750
You encapsulated my feelings.

I have never enjoyed talking to an American woman. Maybe rarely. They’re always a little annoying. European women though, it was like talking to an actual human being, someone you could actually fall in love with. They’re just way more knowledgeable and interesting and have actual personalities.

I don’t think I can ever marry an American woman.

>>196412886
The women are dating someone dude. Each woman living with her partner, is a man who is doing the same. All that chart tells me is that women usually date men who are a bit older than them, which has been the case forever.

>>196412976
Again, women lie about that stuff because they want to feel like they are good people because deep down inside they know their beliefs and desires are disgusting and immoral, and if they were to acknowledge that part of themselves, I'm not sure they could handle it emotionally.

Also, what you are saying applies to left-wing people in general I've noticed. They'll go on about how appearance doesn't matter, having niche or weird interests is fine etc. Basically, "stop judging people", but as soon as they get a little upset, their go to insults are always about someone's appearance, and then they'll find their oddities and attack those too. Basically, left-wing people and women are generally full of shit, and don't believe what they claim to.

>>196413034
>like talking to an actual human being
I was going to say that European women to me felt like they were real humans, but I thought that would've been a bit too extreme, but I'm glad you feel the same way as me. American women don't feel like real humans to me, they're off in some fundamental ways.

>>196409175
Its impossible to have sex if you dont have a big friend group that goes to parties to get wasted
t.only has had sex with escort

>>196413233
>Its impossible to have sex if you dont have a big friend group that goes to parties to get wasted
I had that and still didn't have any sex or get any dates or any GFs.

>>196412777
I’m shy and meek but I’ve always had that dark triad thing too. I would say don’t make it too obvious though, it doesn’t last. Like yeah women go for that, and even will put up with blatant exploitation and abuse but it’s short term, they’ll eventually get sick of it.

A lot of women come from broken homes and crave abuse though as well. I’d say in general you just have to be low inhibition and sexually aggressive, otherwise it’s ok to not full on abuse them, treating them normally works.

I’ve never had a long term relationship >6mo precisely because I dark triad maxxed imo. It’s great for short term tho with a lot of girls. I’d recommend being sly about it though and not overdoing it.

And really, you should just never trust a woman. Always be skeptical. They always say shit in the moment and go back on it. She will 100% ghost you and be riding another dick within a month or breaking up, even if she says she’ll never do it

>>196413110
They'd have to be dating guys much older than them for the chart to even out, not just a bit older. You realize that the statistic about young American men being single can be explained in the same way?

>>196413264
No, it can't. Because your chart shows that the women are dating AND living with someone, so clearly there is one man on the other end of that relationship. The man doesn't secretly have a bunch of girls he's fucking if he is living with one. Our statistics can be explained by the fact that the best men have multiple women they are fucking/semi-dating at once, since American women are okay with being girl #3 if the dude is attractive enough.

>>196413247
Have you tried drinking shots until you become so drunk you temporarely disable the autism, you might have sex or die.

>>196413018
This whole thread you've been wallowing in self-pity and making excuses. Everyone's told you this mindset is why you're in the position that you're in. And everyone's told you the solution: grow some balls and start being assertive. So I don't know why it's so infuriating for you when the answer is so simple.

>>196413259
well yeah these things exist on a sliding scale. There's an optimal median, but if you're shy then you definitely need to push yourself in the dark-triad direction. I'm not saying turn into a full blown sociopath.

>>196413327
>No, it can't.
It literally can though. You just made up a different, less likely explanation because you prefer that.

>>196412812
>I noticed it too when I went to England for a few weeks from my boring Midwest shithole. Basically everyone is a normalfag there. I think because it's dense and everyone is forced to be around each other and like other anons said there is a drinking culture and you can drink at 16 there and they don't have the "helicopter parents" and religion that are common here.

It’s crazy. Like they have no clue what it’s like being a Midwest fucker with no social life because there’s nothing to do, or parents breathing down your neck.

I’ve always fucking said this. Everyone is normie in the uk, and incels basically don’t exist. Can you imagine growing up there just taking a tube to a bar as a teenager and easily fucking one of their many extroverted women? Like holy shit. They really actually live life, and it’s like anxiety doesn’t exist for them.

I’ve heard parents literally just let their kids fuck and hear it and don’t care. You’re right, the density helps too. That’s why they’re also always meeting people from the internet and fucking them and shit on discord.

In the uk at 18 you’re actually way more mature and experienced in life than an American because of this. I noticed this. 18 year olds in the uk are like American 30 year olds. Also more opportunities to travel Europe etc and become less insular

>>196413333
>Have you tried drinking shots until you become so drunk you temporarely disable the autism
Yes. Doesn't work.

Getting drunk helps me be more sociable, but it doesn't help me find it any easier to approach women.

It's like an impossible barrier that I simply cannot reach past.

>>196413426
Who are these women living with, if not other men in Germany???? Explain that to me.

>>196413385
>This whole thread you've been wallowing in self-pity and making excuses.
I'm not wallowing. I'm explaining to you the facts of how things are.

>Everyone's told you this mindset is why you're in the position that you're in. And everyone's told you the solution: grow some balls and start being assertive.
I can't, dude. It's not possible. What you're saying is like telling a man in a wheelchair "just stand up and walk". I have a literal mental disease which PREVENTS me from being assertive.

I just need to meet a woman who is very sexually forward. I think that's the only way things will work for me. I need a woman who will make the first move on me. I need a woman who is willing to lean in and kiss me, rather than the other way around. I know it's unlikely. But I don't see how else it could ever happen for me. I wasn't able to make the first move even when girls gave me the clearest possible signals, so when could I ever do it?

>>196413018
I wouldn’t say it doesn’t matter because a shitload of women talk about it or prefer it. But in reality women always cave if you’re masculine and pursue them. They kind of just get attached to you if you pursue them the right way.

>>196413487
Older men. Now answer to me why the same explanation is inapplicable to the American statistic.

>>196413015
Yeah I’m speaking in general terms. But honestly it’s like 90-95% of women. It’s like how most men like tits and ass, it’s just how it is. Generally speaking. But you can never say 100% like some autists here might, everything is on a scale as well. Not all women are garbage bpd whores. But the vast majority >95% are also not virgins after 18-20

>>196413539
Because the data shows most men are not in relationships. And while yes, there are more single men in the 18-25 group, there are still many many single men in older demographics (up to I believe late 30s). Factor in the fact that there are more women than men in the USA overall. Then, the women who are in relationships must be in relationships with men who are themselves dating/fucking multiple women. An age gap along does not explain our data, whereas it can with yours.

>>196413180
I agree. I think women know their nature is disgusting and they themselves lie to everyone and themselves about it. They couldn’t really handle it if they admitted it, they’d just feel terrible.

It’s almost like a subconscious this. I think it might even actually be. But they usually virtue signal about shit and once in a while they make a comment with how they really feel (ie. Liking jawlines, tall guys, assholes, being choked, whatever it is) and then they backtrack it. It’s funny. Nobody is buying this shit.

As a kid though and without someone to tell you this, you have to figure it out yourself, and it really imo has contributed to the incel epidemic. If my dad just told me this shit it’d have been different, but I don’t even think Gen Xers had to try this hard, everyone was just naive back then anyway and women weren’t as fucked back then.

>>196413180
It’s not only left wing women, I’ve noticed even full on 1488 racist 4chan girls in discords do this type of thing, back and forth. And they even oscillate between the type of man they’ll be with it seems, so maybe it doesn’t matter to some of them. But

>>196413507
>I wouldn’t say it doesn’t matter because a shitload of women talk about it or prefer it.
Women SAY they want taller men but in reality they'd date a little midget boy rather than me (a normal 5'11 dude).

I wish incels were right when they said "women only care about height and looks" because damn if that was the case, I would have cleaned the fuck up.

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>>196413497
>I'm not wallowing. I'm explaining to you the facts of how things are.

>I can't, dude.
>It's not possible
>What you're saying is like telling a man in a wheelchair "just stand up and walk".
> I have a literal mental disease which PREVENTS me from being assertive.

This is what wallowing and making excuses sounds like. How can you lack this much self-awareness? You obviously know how the English language works. You have a tongue that works. So there's nothing preventing you from walking up to a woman and asking her out. You admitted earlier to cuddling with a girl in her bed in your underwear. There was no physical barrier that prevented you from taking off her panties and making a move.

I don't know what else to say to to get it through to you. THE BARRIERS YOU THINK EXIST AREN'T REAL. THEY EXIST PURELY WITHIN YOU MIND.

>>196409175
As an incel uts even hard in Canada. You can atleast fuck a fat ugly chick easily. There really is no excuse.

Alot of Incels have incredibly high standards for being weirdos. You arent going to get the 8/10's by living in your room 98% of the time with nothing going for you. You arent that interesting because you pisten to obscure music and watch anime. Sorry bros. Lower your standards.

>>196413385
It’s funny how the grow balls and be assertive (not even saying an asshole) is really the only solution.

My problem as an incel was I was like him. Just always making excuses, being a pussy, never going out or trying to talk to people. You really just have to man up. It’s crazy that there’s only one solution though. That women will just never ever ever try and help you if you’re like this.

Obviously this mindset keeps you a shut in too, but if you keep the mindset even if you try it rarely works with women. They really always just want a dude to take initiative and not be a pussy.

>>196413497
You live in the country with the most sexually assertive women in the world, what the fuck are you doing dude?

A lot of British men are pussies and they’re ok with it even. Excluding lower classes. Your women are massive whores my dude. Have you tried just going to pubs/clubs every weekend? British women will rape you

>>196413716
>You obviously know how the English language works. You have a tongue that works. So there's nothing preventing you from walking up to a woman and asking her out.
Yes there is. It's called aspergers syndrome. And a severe crippling fear of rejection.

I don't want to ask a girl out and have her look at me with those judging, pitying eyes like I'm some kind of pathetic individual who creeps on women for no reason.

I will do everything in my power to never, ever, ever be called "creepy" by a woman. I'm never going to be THAT kind of guy.

>You admitted earlier to cuddling with a girl in her bed in your underwear. There was no physical barrier that prevented you from taking off her panties and making a move.
Bro how the fuck do you think I could even do something like that? I'm not a rapist. I'm not going to rip her clothes off like some ravenous beast.

I just want that sweet romantic moment where the girl looks into my eyes with that loving look, and leans towards me and then maybe I get to kiss her. Is that too much to ask for?

>>196413669
You must just be an introvert. That’s the thing. You’ll never get pussy as a shut in, those Manlets had to cope and become extroverted, that’s how they’re doing it.

I’m 5’6 and have pulled girls taller than me but on paper women definitely prefer 6ft

>>196413720
I have heard Canadian girls are easier than American ones. Probably more similar to Europe because CA is more liberal. I dunno tho.

>>196413427
Definitely agreed. I grew up in a fairly decently sized city for the Midwest (Wichita) and I'm sure a city in the UK with less than half the population probably has more of a social life and young people being able to hangout, go to clubs and pubs and even just walk around the city and chill and talk fuck around with their mates. My hellhole requires a car to do anything, has one relatively small bar area where people get murdered relatively often and schizo homeless and crack addicts roam around. Just a desolate dead end city. No people just chill out and walk around. Sidewalks are empty. Cities and towns at least in the Midwest look dead. And often times rundown. It's such a backwater. I'm sure if we built densely like the UK and Japan and lowered the drinking age to 16 we'd actually create so much more of a social life for Americans and people wouldn't just feel like they need to be trapped at home all the time.
I also think that's why so many Americans believe wack ass shit and fall for shit like conspiracy theories and extreme political opinions because we get isolated in fuck all nowheresville and people isolate so much. In counties where everyone is crammed close you just have less of a space to become some wild outlier that thinks the world is flat for example when anyone on the block or at the pub will tell you you're a retard

>>196413756
>You live in the country with the most sexually assertive women in the world, what the fuck are you doing dude?
No. Women here still want you to make the first move.

>Have you tried just going to pubs/clubs every weekend? British women will rape you
I used to go to pubs and clubs A LOT. And no, that never happened to me. Women just never seemed interested in me.

I mean, sometimes, I had some occurences where girls came on to me. I remember being told this girl in my class was "flirting with me" at the club and then later I somehow ended up kissing her, but after that day she never spoke to me again, like she was repulsed by me or something. Another time a girl kept grabbing my arm and trying to put it around herself. I also remember walking into this pub full of drunk middle aged women once and this 50 year old woman kept stroking my fur coat.

But none of this shit matters. I'm still a kissless dateless virgin. There's nothing I can do. Women just don't like me.

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I am genuinely beginning to agree with women that the average man is irredeemable garbage.
There really are tons of weak, effeminate men going around wishing a woman would just fall down from the sky like mana from heaven, do all the work, and fix their lives that they've spent 20+ years driving into the ground.
Get a grip already. Holy shit.
>but muh society!
Didn't ask.

>>196413825
Holy shit yeah, you nailed it. I wish I was from the UK for this reason. People always shit on the country but it’s based for social life.

I agree on the whack job shit, rural midwesteners believe so much outdated or insane bullshit. We’re an isolated country.

I don’t even think NY or LA are much better because there’s just an aura of bullshit with them too, crime etc. I could see myself being a shut in there as well.

>>196413972
I think both men and women are shit. You can’t look at modern women right now and tell me that they’re good with a straight face, but men are weak pathetic incels too. Women’s behavior is the shittiest and least wifeable ever right now. They’re disgusting whores.

But the sad part is men are still condoning that shit by being losers and simps.

It’ll probably eventually change but it’ll be a dire next 10-20 years imo.

>>196414249
Women are desperate for a man who isn't a wimp and are so desperate that they don't mind sharing the men who are actually functional.

>>196414215
Yeah you can be a coastie but they have their own issues. Homeless and drug epidemic, crime, constant car break ins etc. I always kek when a euro says one of their cities is crime ridden because of how unrelatable it is. The most dangerous euro cities woudl probably be pretty normal for here or even somewhat safe lel
America just sucks to live in in many ways. And I think a lot of people can't even really pinpoint it because it's all most people know. You really have to see other places and how they live to understand the differences

>>196414636
Where’d you go in the uk?

But yeah I feel trapped here. Too bad uk is hard as hell to move to. I’d consider other euro countries too, but I’d prefer to be in the English speaking world still.

>>196413666
I meant left-wing people AND women

>>196411395
>Europeans are much more puritan than we are
so you've met enough of them to come to that conclusion?

>>196414774
London, Guildford, Oxford, Salisbury, Bath, and some other small towns in Surrey. Even with the shit aspects of this country I will say I like the prices compared to the UK. I really want to own a home at some point and that's at least achievable in flyover USA. In England the prices are just unbelievable. I feel like you'd have to wagecuck forever just for scraps, coasties here have to as well. And all my family and friends are here too so if I left it would be a complete start over

>>196409175
I'm a 28 kisless virgin who's never been on a date but i suppose I'm an exception

>>196409175
We're the most incel country in all of europe. You don't suffer

t. 28yr old khhv

>>196415148
I only meant Western Europe. And not really even med countries, basically nw Europe the privileged/progressive countries. But I guess med countries kind of count too.

>>196415149
Sweden is the exception because of your weird anti social culture

I just had sex a few minutes ago

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>tfw haven't had sex in a week

>>196415149
False!

>>196415218
Med countries are even less incel than Western Europe bro.

>>196409175
You actually have to be trying to be a sexless incel in sex positive societies. Just staying in your room all day on 4chan and never interacting with anyone ever is a foolproof way to protect your virginity
Even if you went out to hobby clubs and met people and talked to them you'd lose your virginity in a year at most. Our brains are tuned for social interactions, talking to people is a great way to learn to talk to people and talking to women is a great way to have sex with them

>>196411715
>How is Europe uptight?
A dumbass could get the impression because we don't have the glorified hookup culture among college kids and proles like you do.

But no one actually cares about policing another's sexual [expression/topic/etc.]. Neither in the classical Christfag sense, nor the modern libshit sense.

>>196409175
There are plenty of them, sure.

>>196415239
>One chance at life
>Born in Sweden
I suffer

>>196409175
I am

Yeah how can you be incel in shitaly? Imagine spending your youth in your apartment and only going out to buy groceries... Wouldn't be me hahaha

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>>196409175
we wrote about the incel problem 30 years ago so no I'd say it's a universal issue

>>196420654
I went on Erasmus and had a fully paid apartment for myself in the center of Milano at 23yo and did literally this haha

>>196411853
>>196411825
None of you (assuming youre not talking to yourself) have been to shitrope nor do you know what you are talking about. Its unironically way easier to date and hate fun in the US than in franceshit
>European women actually fuck and date average guys. Like, attractive women too, and they don’t think they’re hot shit either.
Delusional

>>196410477
You are nuts. Talking to women is a misdemeanor here. You cant suffer in Richmerica

>>196420743
How did he know?

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>>196413233
>

>>196424658
imagine
>i m a g i n e

>>196409271
Yeah, but the downside is that you have to sleep with British women.

>>196413233
I have that friend group and I still can't stop being a virgin

>>196411907
Same. When I was in college, aside from my male friends, I can easily get along with the “slutty” girls because they are very nice and was more tolerant of my weirdness…

>>196424658
You know it's fake because nordcucks don't spank their children

>>196409175
If by European countries you mean Scandinavia and North West Europe then no, unless you live in a small village

If by Europe you mean Italy it's not only possible but it's also the norm

The women there seem more ok with autistic behavior/speech too, whereas American girls want you to be a confident smooth talking chad. You really got to fuck up to be an incel in Europe.

>>196430287
Say North Europe not Europe.