>Some may question my right to destroy a city with 300 thousand souls, but those who truly understand realize I have no right to let them live.
>>16537134Most moral choice of all WWII, FAFO as the right likes to say
>>16537134Would you prefer he gassed every valley in Japan like Saddam Hussein in the Iran/Iraq War, because that was the other plan.
>>16537158This, the other plan was a joint Soviet and American invasion that would be a race to Tokyo much the same as in Germany. The Soviets absolutely loathed the Japs as much as the Krauts and you can bet atleast 10,000,000 extra Japs would perish on their northern front alone. In total you'd pprobably end up with 14 million extra Japs dead and a extra 500,000 Americans and 1,000,000 dead Soviets
>>16537158Everyone completely ignores Downfall, which would have meant millions of Japanese casualties and worse, a DPRJ once the Soviets started moving in.
There is more dignity in fighting and killing millions of partisans than there is in deleting 300,000 unsuspecting innocents.organized jewry is truly subhuman and bernarch baruchs entire tribe should be tribunal'd.
>>16537191Hey Baruchtranny, are you going to tell us more about the English bombers flying out of Norway to attack Hitler in 1916?
>>16537177>>16537182What do you think the ramifications of a Soviet/American invasion of Japan be for Japan and the Cold War? Would Korea even happen, or would it buy the USSR enough time to take the whole peninsula? Likewise, would Mao still rise to power and would the U.S support France in Indochina?
>>16537191>There is more dignity in fighting and killing millions of partisans>He doesn't know that's what the U.S did in Vietnam and it backfired so hard we lost from the PR aloneGo to the Westmoreland thread you fucking moron
>>16537203This basically would mean no RoK and Mao probably still would have risen to power.
>>16537203Japan would be a spent nation on par with Germany where it only served as a distraction in all war planning. Korea would be entirely Soviet but we may have a alternative Sino-Soviet split centered around Korea which many in China would claim to be a legal Chinese province stolen by the Japanese imperialists much like how the CCP claimed Tibet. The Chinese would also be much stronger in this timeline due to the Soviets having far more surplus in the region due to having to mobilize a large force to invade Japan with the USA being less willing to aid the nationalists since their casualties were now much higher and American surplus was now far less.
>>16537208Its the Baruchtranny emerging from its most recent ban. He'll shit up the thread with screeching about FDRs cabinet being Jews (they weren't).
>>16537212>>16537219I feel like the U.S as a result of this would probably support France in Vietnam and try to cultivate relations with India.I could also see the U.S maybe even letting (South) Japan keep Taiwan to strenghten them.
>>16537222Huh, I didn't know about this character. I gave up this site for Lent and missed out on a lot on many boards from what I can tell.Why doesn't he just fixate on Morgenthau like all the others? That's far more rational.
>>16537228Absolutely everything but the last part, that would be a PR disaster, it'd be like letting Germany keep Danzig, Taiwan is a strategic ally but I reckon in this timeline they would fall to the communist due to the large amount of Soviet landing craft in the region that would probably be given to China after the japs fell
>>16537208Americans never had that dog in them.>>16537202odd post.I am merely stating what the essence of chivalry is.If we are to kill people, we should do so as a last resort and carry it out with a solemn dignity.
>>16537235>it'd be like letting Germany keep DanzigNot really, Taiwan had been Japanese before even Korea and the local population there was neutral towards the Japs. It was even considered a home island in U.S planning. And given there'd be a huge influx of Jap refugees from Asia who wouldn't be able to settle in Hokkaido or Tohoku, Japan could dump them there the way the Waishengren were dumped in Taiwan after the Chinese Civil War. Refugees from China would likely go to Singapore and Southeast Asia.
>>16537254>Americans never had that dog in them.Agreed, that's why I'm saying that the idea Downfall would've been a massive disaster that'd make Vietnam look tame. The bombs spared way more lives than having to clear every valley and city in Japan from partisans.
>>16537254This isn't the medieval era. Chivalry doesn't exist when your nation is a militaristic autocracy in total war and doesn't give quarter to surrendered troops. Why is Japan entitled to chivalry when they never showed chivalry in the beginning of the war they started?
>>16537291Because weebs cry when their favorite tranime series shows the fire bombing of hecking Japan
>>16537304The funny thing is most weebs fundamentally misunderstand those movies. America isn't supposed to be seen as an evil force a la Soviet films depicting the Nazis, they're depcited by those Japanese filmmakers as a Götterdämmerung punishing Japan for it's atrocities and malice as a nation.
>killing thousands with one bomb bad>killing thousands with thousands bombs goodI don't get it.
>>16537347It's more>killing thousands with a couple bombs bad>Killing millions with bombs, gas, incendiaries, and house to house anti-partisan warfare good
>>16537352Worse, nearly all deaths would be from preventable famine and ritualistic mass suicides
>>16537363It would literally be a giant, worse version of the Paraguayan War.How any sane person would think that's better than the nooks is beyond me.
I mean, the alternative was a land invasion of mainland Japan. I don't think anyone argues that the Japanese would rather have experienced a complete cultural death before surrender. It would have lead to a much more brutal occupation period and much harsher peace agreements. We're arguing this all in hindsight, so I don't know why this "The US should have just invaded bro. The death toll from the invasion wouldn't matter bro. Ignore the Soviets bro" meme narrative still exists to this day.
>>16537387This is also being discussed greatly today because some dumb american grifter went on to a podcast and claimed the nuking of Japan was most morally evil thing done in the history of mankind which is beyond laughable in itself
>>16537401I'm not sure how he came to that conclusion because one of the most well known genocides in history happened in the same war. Shit, there was two running concurrently in Europe AND Asia.
>>16537387Because there's no shortage of retarded warmonger types who just want to kill the most people. It's the same deal in the Westmoreland thread, where I argue from the very hawkish standpoint that the U.S should have gone into Cambodia and Laos with more troops after Tet like Westmoreland wanted, but then I get retards saying "we should have just invaded the north, who gives a shit if it would've just been the Korean war with nukes".
>>16537401I think that senitment comes from retarded tankies raised on American education.I mean hell, I'm on a thread in /tv/ right now where there's an argument between a guy who likes a debate channel called Destiny, and everyone else; where the Destiny fanboy is literally making the argument of "well actually you don't need to know basic fucking geography and history like where Iran or Russia are on the map or what language the bible was written in to understand politics and history".
>>16537425American grifters pride themselves on being uneducated and base their whole personalities and arguing about topics they just learned about yesterday. >>16537413Exactly, it’s infuriating to watch a bunch of the accounts i follow run defense for what some tard said when it has no basis in reality. The nukes can be classed as a war crime but they are far from the beyond morally evil act that Tucker Carlson painted it to be for the millions of brain dead followers of both his and podcasts fanbase
>>16537451Wait, that was Tucker who said that? I knew he was sliding into some soft tankie territory, but I didn't know he went full-on Chomsky levels of retardation like that. How long until you think he starts simping for China?
>>16537451>Tucker CarlsonNo fucking shot. I forget how many retards listened to that man for years. 24/7 news was a mistake.
>>16537501My Dad listens to him fairly religiously, and I did at one point too, until he got booted off fox. He was the only major network guy I ever listened to/watched(I'm a zoomer, so like all zooomers with brains I have a deep-seated hatred of traditional media).In general I think he's slightly less retarded than most American talking heads, but that's literally the lowest bar possible in Western media. And his descent into straight-up tankie stuff has been bizarre and fascinating to watch. His influence is pretty awful however.
The only ethical/moral option was accepting a conditional surrender.
>>16537497I fully expect him to eventually make a whole episode of his show where talks about how the Uighurs and Tibetans were slavers that terrorized and attacked China first thus forcing the Chinese to occupy and genocide them for the betterment of mankind all the while painting anything even 1/10th as heinous the US did as an unforgivable warcrime deserving of Nuremburg style trials. It’s a shame really, he’s probably the single biggest influencer for not only conservative media but all politically orientated personalities in the entire world. If he’s been bought to spew this nonsense, i fear for what other multitude of influential people can be bought as well
>>16537636I agree, but the burden was 100% of Japan to offer its surrender once the war was unwinnable to even the most zealous of war mongerers, aka after Midway, they obviously didnt and continued their multiple genocides and mass execution and torture of all prisoners
>>16537134So that's where that warhammer qoute comes from...
>>16537650>but the burden was 100% of Japan to offer its surrender once the war was unwinnable to even the most zealous of war mongerers,They did offer conditional surrender on the condition they keep their emperor.
>>16537291you are currently reaping what you have sown American, remember, you dont live in the middle ages, now kneel before the african and pay tribute to the asiatic.>ITS TOTALLY UNRELATED ITS TOTALLY UNRELATEDnothing in this life is coincidental or unrelated.
>>16537660Nigger they wanted their entire war cabinent to remain in place plus also Korea till a month before the nukes. Also only after the war had been lost for 3 years, you cant keep fighting and blatantly losing while still thinking you can dictate terms.
>>16537668Mind broken poojeet. Even the cucked Japs spit on your ilk
>>16537668Do you not know what "reap what you sow" means retard? It isn't based on karma how do a bad thing bad thing happen to you. It means something you intentionally did in the past comes back and bites you. So yes it is fucking irrelevant that you bring up niggers and China.
>>16537690Reminds me of Himmler thinking that he could negotiate a white peace with the west and a favorable peace with the Soviets as Berlin was being shelled by arty and surrounded by 3,000,000 Soviet soldiers. Both the Japs and Krauts were beyond delusional and never had a conditional surrender in mind till the war was beyond lost for both of em
>>16537645>I fully expect him to eventually make a whole episode of his show where talks about how the Uighurs and Tibetans were slavers that terrorized and attacked China first thus forcing the Chinese to occupy and genocide them for the betterment of mankind all the while painting anything even 1/10th as heinous the US did as an unforgivable warcrime deserving of Nuremburg style trials.I think more likely he'll go into old Cold War left talking points about how the KMT were dogshit and that Chiang Kai-shek and the ROC were bad allies, which has more truth to it even if it's now irrelevant. Due to him being anti-left I don't think he'll go as far as being overtly sympathetic to the CCP like Hinkle and the actual tankies. He'll also probably mix in stuff like U.S "support" for the Khmer Rouge and East Pakistan in there too, much like Chomsky and the new left used to do.>If he’s been bought to spew this nonsense, i fear for what other multitude of influential people can be bought as wellI really can't tell if he's been bought, if he actually believes this shit and is showing his true colors, or if he's an opportunist who sees that zoomer tankies on the right are in vogue. Regardless it's a fascinating development I've been keeping my eyes on.
people saying the atom bombs were bad are midwits
>>16537191>there is more dignity wasting time in a quagmire for multiple decades doing police action than ending the war.Retard.
>>16537182The USSR would have burned the entire country to the ground as revenge for 1905
>>16537134This guy was a massive incel chud. This is literally all he will be remembered for.
>>16539023>This guy was a massive incel chud. He was literally the last truly great man leader the U.S ever had.
You have no idea how bad it actually was. "The Japanese were ready to surrender and there was no need to hit them with that awful thing"-Dwight EisenhowerNothing but a show of force to the soviets at the expense of perhaps a quarter million dead Japs. Kyrie Eleison
>>16539215>Dwight EisenhowerThat's because he was commanding U.S forces in Europe and his understanding of war itself was skewed by his experiences there
>>16539023Ah, so that's why everything he did was so based
>>16537182>worse, a DPRJ once the Soviets started moving in.Oh no! Japan might have free healthcare and adequate housing now. Thank God we avoided that!
>>16537690And they should have accepted that.
>>16539848Because...reasons. Vae Victus. If they didn't want war they shouldn't have been warmongering and started it.
>>16539572>free healthcareThey have that>adequate housing They DEFINITELY have that given their population collapse. Hell, parts of rural Japan are becoming the next rural Italy.
>>16539848>Seething soo hard he sages lmao. Also no, the Japs should have seen reality and they should have gotten the Kraut treatment for being such delusional manlets. The Japs got the absolutely most lenient occupation and limp wristed trial and the weebs are still seething on their behalf.
He was the last good American president. The only thing he did wrong was creating the CIA.
>>16540626Wrong retard
>>16537134>be amerimutt>feel the compulsive need to meddle in every conflict>nuke japan so your mongrel descendants have to face japan's enemy, china, with 10x the population and industryBased. Looking forward to seeing China genocide Americans. The West Coast will finally be Chinese as it always was meant to be.
>16540651Implessive.
>>16537291So you agree that Nazis were right to murder millions of Soviet civilians and POWs, given the USSR also was not a party to the Geneva conventions?
>>16540683As long as you agree then that the Soviets were in their right to mass rape Kraut girls and commit a massive retaliatory genocide against the Krauts because they didnt sign that paper. Then yeah i'd agree
>>16540691Sure. So nothing wrong happened at Nanjing in 1937-1938, right?
>>16540703Show me any proof that the chinks genocided the japs first or even after that in WW2
>>16540741China wasn't a Geneva signatory, and neither was Japan. If they were, they would have committed countless warcrimes: first and mostly against their own people in the encirclement campaigns, but also in the battle of Shanghai, where they executed 4,000 Chinese civilians without trial, killed thousands more with indiscrimate bombing, and habitually shed their uniforms in favor of civilian garments in order to get closer to the Japanese and attack them. And of course, the whole battle was started by the Chinese to overrun the Japanese concession in Shanghai, and if they had won they likely would have massacred the thousands of Japanese and Chinese civilians there.
>>16540771Nice word vomit chink, proofread your garbage fore you spit it out if you want anyone to have an inkling of what you’re trying to say
>>16540871Learn to read English, Failipinx.
The death toll for the atomic bombings is comically inflated. 129,000-226,000? Where are the bomes?
This is an answered question. You guys are all flipping your wikipedia knowledge around trying to interpret a piece of National Propoganda that has become as fundamental to American identity as the Constitution. It is SETTLED. Truman had NO NEED to drop the A-bombs. "The Decision to use the Atomic Bomb"and "Empire and the Bomb"are excellent accounts of this, but really you can see it clearly just by reading one volume of Truman's memoirs from 1945 (assuming you can read critically which most of you probably cannot)It is absolutely untrue that the bombs were dropped to avoid a home invasion, and the Japs were desperately trying to access diplommatic channels to surrender. Their only demand in the weeks leading up to the bombing was the preservation of the Emperor as a figurehead, which the US ultimately decided to do for its own reasons.The whole thing is a miserable, fraudulent scandal. If people knew the truth it would upset the narrative badly. Please dig into it. It is shocking. The amount of information and evidence is totally damning. Eisenhower, Nimitz, Lemay and Marshall are all ON RECORD saying that the atomic bombing was strategically unnecessary.
>>16540905Prove the Japs only wanted to keep the Emperor in their desperate attempts to surrender and not also keep Formosa and Korea. Hard mode, nothing in the days before the atomic bombing
>>16541040I am not playing games or doing your homework. Make an argument.
>>16541095You have no proof of your claims. Neither The Decision to use the Atomic Bomb" or "Empire and the Bomb" say this. Also General Hindsight
>>16540683The National Socialists didn’t murder them. Allied bombing did by causing famine.
>>16541626Just ignore the death squads killing entire villages to try and get "partisans".
>>16537134>souls
>>16541642Terrorists and those aiding them are acceptable casualties
>>16537134>Some may question my "right" to kill the sons of God. Those who questions is are right, and I am rotting in hell right now.
>>16541668Except a majority of those villages weren't aiding the partisans, they were murdered solely because they might support partisans.
>>16541611Pardon me fucknuts? Neither of these books says what exactly? I have them next to me. Let's go buddy.
>>16542917That the Japs wanted to surrender with the only stipulation that the emperor remained in power atleast a month to week before the bombs were dropped, now go. You’ll only find Emperor + war cabinet, emp + Korea and so forth.
>>16542945The closest i can find by looking right now was a independent Korea and Manchuria under Japanese protection and influence with conditional small scale war trials
>>16539023Dangerously based.
>>16542945>>16541611Okay, I will be as clear as I can. I stated>Their only demand in the weeks leading up to the bombing was the preservation of the Emperor as a figurehead, which the US ultimately decided to do for its own reasonsto which you replied>Prove the Japs only wanted to keep the Emperor in their desperate attempts to surrender and not also keep Formosa and Korea. Hard mode, nothing in the days before the atomic bombing.Which I took to imply some sort of argument about the detailed timeline of Japanese surrender efforts, which I do not recall in detail and which have EVERYTHING to do with the Soviet declaration of war, as you know.Hence why I said "make your argument" because I did not want to get in the weeds. I have in Empire in the Bomb,>The Japanese ambassador in Portugal made it known that "the actual terms of the peace were unimportant so long as the term 'unconditional surrender' was not used."I have, as you suggested >The one imperative was to protect the Emperor and to preserve the kokutai.I have>By mid June 1945 [Before Trinity!] ... Emperor Hirohito agreed to seek SOVIET [my emph] mediation on the basis of "Peace with honor." He endorsed a plan calling for withdrawal from ALL [orig emph] occupied territories, partial disarmament, and preservation of the imperial system.Then>Contrary to Truman and Stalin... the Japanese did not reject Potsdam. Having failed to receive no official notice of the ultimatum, it made no immediate response.They did not try any of the establishrd back-channels. Emperor heard the news about Potsdam on the radio. It was total silence from any allied powers including the Soviets until the bomb dropped.The decision to bomb two targets was made in the same meeting. I have a fun quote from Byrnes that shows this is all neither here nor there"If we insisted on unconditional surrender we could justify the dropping of the atomic bomb."
>>16543118The Japanese weren't going to surrender you lunatic, they would have never surrendered. They fought TO A MAN on those islands, hardly any surrendered.
>>16543118Their emperor was literally their god, if you allowed him to remain in power they would have remained fanatically devoted to him and would have never surrendered.
>>16539572Japan is known to have the best healthcare system by all metrics on the planet.
>>16543118also 90% of what your reading is made up bullshit, none of those things happened, they are soviet propaganda. We're not the only people who lie about shit man, get your head out of your ass.
>>16543397I do not care about anything but truth.
>>16539023>and America
FUCK Harry Truman he was a fucking monster
>>16543566No he wasn't, he was the last normie to ever become prezhttps://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/harry-trumans-adorable-love-list-to-his-wife-bess-15753530/
>>16543581Fuck off, he was an idiot with black blood for a soul.
>>16543600>Created NATO and the Marshall Plan, making Western Europe and eventually all of Europe our vassal to this day>Won in Korea and finally had the balls to kick MacArthur's proto-neocon retard ass out of Washington>First president to realize the Soviets were the problem, BTFOd Wallacefags>Desegregated the military and potentially prevented a race war in the 60s>Ushered in the 50s economic prosperityNo. He's the last truly great leader the U.S had.
>>16543632Baby anon, I have read several hundred pages of his writings. He was an idiot. It is hard for me to describe how out of proportion to his station he was. The man had scant knowledge and was a local politics hero suddenly elevated to the presidency, where he served Churchill lunch and licked the boots of his military advisors.
>>16543647>he served Churchill lunch and licked the boots of his military advisorsIn all fairness that's a far better leadership strategy than nearly every succeeding president we've had. Name one president better or more important than him since, you fucking can't.
>>16543661Jimmy Carter is easily the best president since Roosevelt, and the only one with redeeming qualities. The rest can burn in hell for all I care.
>>16543677>Jimmy CarterYou know what? We may not agree on most things, but I'll settle for that.He was the last president to be a good, decent, moral man. He was also genuine in pursuing a pro-peace foreign policy.Also, kikes hate him, so that alone makes him good in my book.
>>16543684>kikesI am not your friend, go fuck yourself
>>16543687Merely joking in the spirit of these boards my good man.I will participate in the sticky for when Carter dies, I'll be seriously sad when he passes.
>>16543695If he lives to his 100th birthday how will you celebrate?
>>16543700I'll smile warmly knowing he's still alive
>>16537158that would be kino
>>16544061It'd make for a great movie/tv series at least.I bet Mishima would've become the Japanese Hitler if this happened.
>>16543016very
>>16537134Based
>>16543632Truman gave the order, but Ridgway carried it out.
>>16543632
