Why does everyone hate Jean?
>>143560234Nowdays everybody hates Rogue and how much Space her Ass have.
>>143560234What are you talking about? Every man loves Jean, literally lives have been ruined because of how every guy wants to fuck her.
>>143560234Wait, who hates Jean? I thought she was one of, if not the most popular X-girl
>>143560234she turns people gay
>>143560234I see Storm getting more hate because of power levels these days, people hated teen Jean because pic related but idc about current Jean
>>143560234Why does she not have a codename like everyone else?
>>143560368I suppose Marvel Girls is her codenmane. She was Marvel Girl before Jean Grey in the comics.
>>143560380Shame she had to be "Girl". Makes it not really work for her as an adult
>>143560368Because Phoenix is the best one she's ever had and they can't come up with anything else when she's not with it
>>143560400They should just keep her as the Phoenix. She's far more interesting as it.
>>143560234Because Marvel keeps writing her as an Overpowered mary sue, same with Storm.I like her more when she is a support player.
>>143560234She's not Carol
>>143560443Not to mention Jean has kind of a bitchy streak
>>143560234She has no personality. None. Every other X-Woman have something even if it is a stereotype.Jean's personality is "woman".
Her resurrection in '85 is the exact moment the franchise started to fall apart.>>143560443>>143560505Also these. Which are simultaneously mutually exclusive, and both true.
>>143560538Her being Phoenix is not a personality. She gets a powerup, does cosmic shit, jobs (sometimes repeatedly). She never has any particular views or interests you can describe. What does Jean Grey like to do? What are her hobbies? How does she feel about (X)? We don't know anything about her.The closest to a personality she's gotten is "she's Xavier's biggest fangirl who will carry on his legacy" which is a shitty fucking thing to base your whole character around
>>143560234Basically >>143560505She was just the team token female, they clearly didn't give a fuck about giving her any personality traits at the time and no later writer bothered trying adding anything new to her, so she end up a bland mary sue who is smart, good looking and charismatic without basically any consistent flaw or unique interest.
>>143560625She is a fujo who likes turning men gay
>>143560666Jean is a professional female gooner.
>>143560625>"she's Xavier's biggest fangirl who will carry on his legacy"Thanks to X-men Evolution and the Fox movies everybody thinks Storm is Xavier biggest fan so in the end she got nothing.Now that you think about it Storm stole everything from her, everybody thinks Storm is the team mommy that give the boys hugs when they cry, everybody thinks Storm is the team powerhouse and many ship her with Wolverine.All Jean got that Storm is not interested is being Cyclops girlfriend, something she needs to share with Emma.
>>143560666Thanks Satan
>>143560705Storm succeeded Jean in the comics and filled her role while she was "dead" so it's pretty logical
>>1435602341: Cyclops shippers and self-inserters who want him with someone else, either Jean's clone or a literal whore.2: People who got into X-Men in the early 1980s because they killed one of the original cast and lost their minds when Marvel brought her back and act like this was the first time a "meant to be permanent" death in superhero comics was ever reversed.3: X-Men writers over the last 20 years TRYING to make you dislike Jean, from the writers who followed Morrison trying to retcon Scott and Jean into a dysfunctional toxic marriage to make Emma look better, to Benis writing Teen Jean as an awful person with no telepathic ethics, and now everyone thinks she turned Bobby gay just because his horniness was annoying her. Then when adult Jean came back, the modern take on Teen Jean and her lack of telepathic ethics carried over. Plus the whole situation where Jean, Scott and Logan are all banging each other made them the focal point for the sexual degeneracy of Krakoa.
>>143561005Yeah, but modern Storm is way more insufferable than Jean, and more of a Mary Sue
>>143561176At least she got a few personality traits, she is bland but not completely bland like Jean
>>143561176But there are no shippers wanting Storm dead to get her out of the way of the thing they want, and there's no ancient classic story built around Storm dying that got overturned by her coming back. There's nobody offended by her very presence in the same way those people hate Jean.
>>143561057>for the sexual degeneracy of Krakoa.Will you fucking people ever stop with this shit
>>143561206Must be because Jean is a bland character and her sacrifice is everything she got, she is just like Barry Allen, in some ways worse because Barry got turned into the super nice guy Jean is still nothing but a design
>>143560234She's the worst when she's not being painfully boring.
>>143560234A whole generation of fans grew up with her dead and prefer her that way.
>>143560399It doesn't really work at all because it has nothing to do with her powers. Every other character has a codename that makes sense for what they do (e.g., Cyclops), or at the very least is just kind of cool. She's always been saddled with shit names outside of Phoenix.
>>143560538"Overpowered" and "no personality" aren't mutually exclusive. Combined you get "character has nothing to them other than their power set and physical appearance" which, yeah.
Psychic/telepath characters tend to be really annoying. They are both stupidly OP and frequent jobbers, on top of their powers usually being very plain and uninteresting to look at.
>>143561057>act like this was the first time a "meant to be permanent" death in superhero comics was ever reversed.Maybe not the very first but it was the biggest example of it up to that point. You really didn't see that happening at that level as much back then, it opened the flood gates.
This thread is further evidence that literally no one online understands what the "Mary Sue" trope is.
Morrison wrote her best and wrote her out of the franchise best, she should've never come back after that.
>>143560234Do they? I more get the impression that no one cares about her at all. She's never anyone's favorite.
>>143560234Worse love interest for every character she's officially had interested in her.The Barbra Gordon of X-men
>>143561323*mogs your telepath*
>>143561449This is also your friendly reminder, despite being a character 1963 and officially married to Scott in the 90s. Jean Grey hasn't had a single kid from any of her relationships since her inception that haven't been from an alternate timeline.
She's just bland as fuck. Generic telepath/telekinetic. Generic cosmic power boost for OP bullshit. Generic "good girl" personality with no actual character traits. What is there to her? What could you be a fan of that other characters don't do better?
>>143561323A way to fix telepaths is to drastically limit their powers and give them a lot of rules. like a magic system, for starters only extremely powerful telepaths like cosmic beings should be able to read or control more than one person mind at once.
>>143561449In X-men Forever, every man she was in a relationship with (Wolverine, Beast) died meanwhile Scott was living his best life with Maddie and their son, Nathan away from the X-men. It healed my soul reading that comic.
>>143561522>that haven't been from an alternate timeline.Or from a clone of herself!Maybe she saw how fucked up her alternate kids turned out to be and decided to be childless.
>>143561664Also she's redundant because Professor X is already the team telepath. What does she bring to the table? Every other character, even other psychic power characters, bring in something unique.
>>143560380imagine the smell fresh after an arduous epic fight scene.
>>143560234she's a pretty bland character and like usual the way they tried to make her more "interesting" was making her more bitchy and/or powerful which never really works. One of her incarnations was also making people gay and doing all sorts of unethical mind stuff which while funny, doesn't do the character in favors long term. She's just not very compelling compared to her peers
>>143562149I mean, she’s the only one who can actually control the Phoenix, so there’s that.
>>143562282Well, her most famous story is about a time that she couldn't...Also that's just a weird retrofit that has nothing to do with her powers or character. It's almost random chance that it was her who became the host.
>>143560444Back to your containment thread, Caroltranny
>>143560705>Niggers stealing from whites and pretending like it was theirs all alongMany such cases.
>>143561323They should copy Psychonauts and give telepaths a bunch of of visible powers like pyrokinesis, or just show them entering a mind and dealing with it.
>>143560234I didn't know people hate her, but it does seem that when she's with the "good guys" then she's a feckless damsel and when she's one of the "bad guys" then she's unrealistically overpowered.
>>143561449Fuck off, gookgirl faggot
>>143562149>What does she bring to the table?Being able to move shit with her mind.
>>143561228
>>143562282Why are mutants so ridiculously OP? Jean is basically a cosmic god with the Phoenix, Franklin Richards is an insane power level reality warped and Nate Richards is busted too. Mad how a genetic mutation can lead to that.
>>143562605I mean, it’s a gamble with mutants, some, like Jean or Emma, are ridiculously powerful, whereas others like Glob Herman or Beak have bad/useless mutations
>>143560234> Everyone loves her for no reason> The one that didn't was turned gay by her>Cyclops/Jean/Logan is one of the worst fucking love triangles ever, if not the worst> Her relationship with Scott is a nothing-burger> She brings Scott down as a character > She crushes Scott reputation by making him a cuck> She's a whore>Emma is better in pretty much everything, including being Scott lover>outside of muh Phoenix she is also a nothing character that is better off deaddamn I think i could keep up coming with more
>>143561206I hate Storm. I want her dead. I'm offended by her very presence.
>>143563368Having a minor character trying to stay on Jean's good side so she doesn't turn him gay would make for a funny issue. Jean should be even more of a stinker. She could make a man see his wife as a complete monster or a woman see nerds as hunks. Be a real fucked up bitch, Jean!
>>143562371That's just a problem telepaths have in general. They can't use their powers as a good guy cause it's too OP, but bad guys don't have those restrictions.
>>143563368So Jean haters are just Scottfags? Makes sense. I don't like Scott or Emma, and I don't mind Jean.
>>143562605the Phoenix itself is a cosmic force so it's op by default. Franklin is like Galactus' counterpart or something. I forget Nate's deal but I'm pretty sure he's less than both outside of having better control than Franklin
>>143563368I don’t know if Jean brings Scott down, Bendis’s X-men, where Adult Jean was barely in it, was just Scott being a dick to everyone.
>>143561228>Will you fucking people ever stop with this shitWhy ? Because it was the fucking truth to a point where the mutants in Krakoa started dumping their unwanted babies into bushes.
>>143560666Thanks for reminding us Satan.
>>143563553The only thing Scott cared during Bendis run was Kamala and nothing else.
>>143562120I always thought it was sad that Scott never reconciled as friends, at the very least.
>>143562149>Also she's redundant because Professor X is already the team telepathWell before Emma she was the backup telepath, problem is Emma is not only a telepath but is a very smart strategist and charismatic leader so Jean is just inferior to her even if she get new stupid power ups all the time.
>>143560705>Jean was the original red head replaced with a black person
>>143560399What's wrong with Marvel Woman..kind of a Wonder... Miss
>>143560234she is overpowered, she never stays dead and she is a mary sue.phoenix ikki is the best character
>>143560666kek
>>143561005yeah>>143562331>>143564758kek
>>143561057I got into the X-Men in the 00s.Jean was dead for Astonishing, House of M, Decimation, Messiah, Utopia, Schism, AvX, and Rightclops. The best era of modern X-books and Jean was a corpse for all of it. And whenever she appeared it was just to cuck Cyclops and drive a wedge between the two coolest characters in the franchise.
I like Jean
>>143561284>she's the worst>posts image from Claremont just seething about her being aliveThat's not really proof of anything except how that man should have just moved on to write another book.
>>143561449Weird how both DC and Marvel have that one redhead waifu character that you'd think they'd keep around and push because even casuals and normies are aware of her, but the comic fandom is full of screeching autists that hate her because of shipping, or wanting some lesser character to take her job, or how a 1980s story that took her off the board was a sacred cow that should never be undone.You yourself literally can't see either of them as superheroines in their own right who could have their own stories about themselves, you just see them as "love interests" for guys you ship with someone else.
>>143560234She's a mutie telepath, do you really need another reason?
>>143563368>Emma is better in pretty much everything, including being Scott loverThis part is objectively false. Emma is fucking terrible and second only to Magneto in terms of being an insufferable, disingenuous cunt about mutie issues that she herself had a hand in causing
>>1435635532000s and early 2010s X-Men is responsible for an awful false narrative that Cyclops always wanted to be Diet Magneto, but Jean and Xavier were holding him back from it, or his fear of disappointing them held him back, while Emma encouraged him to be the worst version of himself. Unfortunately that's become the most popular version of Cyclops and the one all his self-inserters want to be.I don't understand why Cyclops of all people is the Marvel character with the second-most self-inserters after Spider-Man, but he is, and most of them are insane, even by self-insert as a mutant standards.
>>143567426>I don't understand why Cyclops of all people is the Marvel character with the second-most self-inserters after Spider-ManBecause Cyclops can very easily be interpreted as autistic as fuck.t. Cyclops self-inserter, but one who prefers VERY PARTICULAR ABOUT EVERYTHING boyscout Scott.
>>143567426Rightclops is so fucking shit, and I hate that it looks like MacKay is dragging him back into it
>>143567060>Based truth-teller. Those two are awful people that have dragged the X-Men down to their level.>>143567464I don't think we're ever getting that Cyclops back again.>>143567515Krakoafags spent months screeching about not wanting X-Men status quo to go back to the 80s or 90s and the mansion but instead they're going back to the early 2010s and the Bendis era, which NOBODY wanted except Rightclops fanboys with their revolution fantasies.
>>143562149Telekinesis? It always felt like her main power to me over telepathy >>143564616Telekinesis is way cooler with more potential for cool action scenes than a diamond form so Jean wins
>>143560294>Wait, who hates Jean? I thought she was one of, if not the most popular X-girlYou thought wrong.
>>143568152It's insane just how long the X-Men have been shit for. Pretty much since the turn of the millennium
>>143560234I love Jean, she was my favorite hero as a kid, telepathy is kinda boring but telekinesis just seemed like such a badass power and Phoenix imagery just adds +10 cool factor to any character
>>143560505>>143560660She isn't good at being thathttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHTAUclH01U
>>143560443The overpowered angle works for Storm who has a Goddess motif. With Jean it reeks of overcompensation.
>>143566606That's a lot of words just to say you're a faggot.
>>143568256It's even more insane how many people enjoy it even as it keeps getting worse, and bitch about the 60s or 90s as if they were worse than the last 25 years. I don't think any other comic has ever been so bad for so long yet retained such a large fandom.
>>143567426You keep pushing this narrative that doesn't exist in almost every X-related thread. Very schizo-like behaviour.
>>143568346At this point the only explanation is that too many people like to self-insert as mutants. They feel oppressed by whatever real life thing, and they revel in the power fantasy of the nuX-Men only looking out for other mutants and seeking revenge against humans
>>143568256real ones jumped off a long time ago
>>143568346>I don't think any other comic has ever been so bad for so long yet retained such a large fandom.Spider-man, though most readers now do admit it sucks, but they still keep reading it.
>>143568398Now that I'm thinking about it, Spider-Verse is pretty similar to the Rightclops bullshit in that it seems to have taken off with the self-insert crowd
>>143568320Yes, anon. The guy who wants hot redhead waifus in comics is the homo, not you who wants them dead or crippled and gone so you don't have to look at them.
>>143568358>this narrative that doesn't existReality is clearly observable to people who are paying attention and denial isn't healthy.
>>143568459say what you want about Jean but Babs was better and more compelling character in the chair and the quality of her oracle stuff trashes her batgirl stuff
>>143568398True, though it's not been for as long as X-Men it's been bad since OMD, which was the end of 2007. I guess some comics have such a built-in audience they become too big to fail because the readers are addicts that won't quit no matter how bad things get.
>>143568346>retained such a large fandomI don't think it has. I think it's had a steady stream of new fans replacing old fans as it becomes more gay/militant/revolutionary/"race war YEAH!", and so on
>>143568527>the general quality of comic writing in the 90s and 2000s was better than comic writing in the 2010s and 2020sBe that as it may, I'd still rather see her being Batgirl than being tech support for other characters who are the main heroes of the story.I think it's important to keep in mind how the Batbooks were worked on by generations of people that were seething about the 1966 show and it being the public perception of Batman for so long, and a lot of the things that happened to Babs back then were symptoms of that. Even the point where the Batbooks started doing more with her as Oracle, and launching Birds of Prey seem like they were done as a reaction to and defiance of the cartoon and the movies using her as Batgirl.
>>143561323For tk just adding a glowy aura on whatever they are focusing on instantly adds visual appeal. For Jean they could even go extra and have a phoenix talon manifest
>>143560234She is a slut.
>>143560234Too much of a slut, that's her whole deal outside phoenix.
>>143560234Because she made iceman gay.
>>143560666based
>>143561344Yeah, it’s fucking drifted so much it means nothing.
>>143560505Having just read through the Phoenix saga for the first time I call this bullshit. Sure, you can say her personality was being influenced by the Phoenix back then and then by Mastermind, but she has more personality than Peter, Banshee, Havok and Polaris, all of who regularly appear in the same comic.
>>143560234With the code, which is the self imposed rule Xavier had to not read minds past surface thoughts without permissions, she was pretty much just like him: a little bit holier than thou but the heart was obviously in the right place. People forget that it was a big deal that Professor X did the mind wipe on Magneto because he considered it a last resort.Once that code was ignored, they both became cunts. Xavier retroactively when hip writers who hated father figures decided he was always doing mind wipes on people and Jean when they brought in her younger self who decided that everyone is just a library book that she had the right to read and then brought back her older self that decided she did nothing wrong ever and that even if she did something wrong it's actually fine because she saved enough lives to balance the scale.The tl;dr is that telepaths without rules suck
>>143568966Same as Scott but that's not a valid point considering we're talking about mutants, they sleep with everything.
>>143569776Wait, a woman can make you gay?I thought only another man could make you gay!Or that he would already be gay but will discover it with the right man in any case.
>>143560257>and how much Space her Ass have.ESL please leave
>>143568250Then who is? Emma?
>>143571683>Wait, a woman can make you gay?Yes. Look how gay people worship Lady Gaga, Madonna, Beyonce etc.
>>143560234jean grey (name), cyclops, emma frost (name) and wolverine are actually all flat characters, and especially the first three i listed are codependent on each other.usually one foil character of a main character works, like how dark beast is a cask of amontillado reference. but jean grey also has rachel summers as well as madelyne pryor. then hope is also supposed to be a substitute for jean grey. it's uninspired.the only function jean grey and emma frost now serve is to make the guy they're with seem like a cool alpha that's always right about everything. this is just for the pathetic self insertsif cyclops' abandonment issues were taken seriously, he'd make a point to train the morlocks and raise them up.the best summers characters are cable (not kid cable, that's trash), nate grey, and havok, in that orde. each are far more interesting than cyclops
>>143560308>>143560321>>143560666>>143561057>>143569776friendly reminder that in the mid 2000s, writers tried to have beast claim he was gay out of fucking nowhere then they dropped it
>>143572911Reasonably sure this was always meant to have been a joke that started as an attempt to get back at the girlfriend who dumped him because he turned into a cat. It was a different time when it was something people could joke about. Maybe you took it seriously because you wanted it to be true, Beast being half-gay is at least more plausible than Iceman having been full gay all along.
