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You really think SA2 is worse than SA1? Well, we all have our own tastes I guess.
I went and got all A ranks in it not long ago, and it gave me new appreciation for it. If anything, my opinion of the speed stages might have soured a little.

>>10867191
>say it's crap
>explain it's good points

>>10868297
based JPchad, you should use the DC models though

>>10867191
It's one of the greatest games ever made.

>>10868308
Zoomers these days aren't able to enjoy anything retro without qualifying it like that. Whereas it once was
>fuck you, this game is awesome, here's why...
it's now
>okay so I know this game is dogshit, but...
They value the opinions of others above their own and refuse to stand up for things they like. Liking things is cringe. "Favorite games" become "guilty pleasures".

>>10867191
>There's something about the physics
I've only ever played the Gamecube version and apparently the original DC is way better in that regard but holy shit the GC port is straight up painful to play compared to Adventure 1. That also lead me to believe that Heroes is genuinely the better game

>>10868351
I don't believe so, that's SA1 you're thinking. SA2 is basically the same across ports.

>>10868356
Well I've heard fans of the game claim that stuff like the ''''homing'''' attack missing like half of the time and characters lacking momentum while grinding on rails wasn't present in the original. Because seriously if this is what the game has always been then there's just no way anyone can think it's better than SA1

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>>10868381
The main point of contention with SA1 is the non-Sonic gameplay, which is inarguably more fleshed out and fully featured in SA2. With regards to what you've mentioned, I've never encountered or heard of that between the DC, GC, and Steam releases.

>>10868381
> the ''''homing'''' attack missing like half of the time
Are you playing it in 50hz? Because the PAL version had a glitch where jumps would randomly cancel into premature homing attacks unless one chose 60hz at the start.

>>10868396
>The main point of contention with SA1 is the non-Sonic gameplay, which is inarguably more fleshed out and fully featured in SA2
What? No. Knuckles's stages in SA2 are so much worse than in SA1. Also, the mech stages are so dull compared to E-102. Finally, Tails plays better in SA1. The only "contention" is the Big and Amy stages and they each only have like, 3 stages. You can beat Big's story in about half an hour.

>>10869554
First off anon, I didn't say they were better, just more fleshed out and fully featured. I didn't choose those words accidentally. I know Knuckles and Gamma barely have any content, with every stage being over in 30 seconds or less save for Gamma's Hot Shelter, and it's okay to prefer that - that doesn't mean that running around a tiny enclosed space or going through a 30 second obstacle course is more fleshed out than SA2's spins on those. Like it or not, the hunting and shooting stages have more actual purpose in SA2.

>Tails plays better
You say that because you barely play as him and you can beat Windy Valley with one jump. The issue with SA1 is that the alternate gameplay styles just aren't as well thought-out as in SA2.
>Tails has absolutely no issue totally smoking Sonic or Eggman in a race
>Knuckles has no issue finding the emerald pieces because his radar is OP and Tikal will just point you the right way
>Gamma's built around getting combos to earn extra time, in stages that don't take longer than a minute at the longest (again, save for Hot Shelter)

>>10868396
>'ve never encountered or heard of that between the DC, GC, and Steam releases.
That's weird, don't remember the Steam port even though I played it but it happened to me all the time on the GC.
>The main point of contention with SA1 is the non-Sonic gameplay
Honestly? I like literally every campaign in SA1 except for Big but it's short anyway so it's fine. And the Sonic gameplay in 1 is much better for me personally. It's crazy how SA1 is one of my favorite games ever yet I don't like its sequel at all
>>10869091
No, NTSC

bump

>>10869652
>I know Knuckles and Gamma barely have any content, with every stage being over in 30 seconds or less save for Gamma's Hot Shelter
Please. You only say this because you've played those stages over and over again. To the average person, they'll take their time and won't be able to blast through until they've also had more experience.

>that doesn't mean that running around a tiny enclosed space or going through a 30 second obstacle course is more fleshed out than SA2's spins on those
You mean the giant rooms that have nothing interesting in them? The treasure stages in SA2 are literally just big for the sake of it. They're drab, dull, empty areas with nothing even remotely exciting or memorable. Death Chamber is confusing, Meteor Herd is a time waster, and Security Hall is one of the worst stages ever conceived in a Sonic game.

>You say that because you barely play as him and you can beat Windy Valley with one jump.
Again, nobody does this their first time playing.

>Knuckles has no issue finding the emerald pieces because his radar is OP and Tikal will just point you the right way
Yeah, sure, but if you're actually wanting to get all the emblems, you literally can't talk to Tikal or you get penalized. And how is that any different than the computer monitors in SA2? The radar is NOT op. It's so much better than the shitty radar in SA2.

>Gamma's built around getting combos to earn extra time, in stages that don't take longer than a minute at the longest (again, save for Hot Shelter)
And this is a bad thing? Gamma's stages lasted the perfect amount of time. He just could've used more of them.

its one of the best games ever made. the quality is more clear as you go for 180 emblems, moreso than a first playthrough

op is just a beta fag, sincerely

>>10872432
>They're drab, dull, empty areas with nothing even remotely exciting or memorable.
wow, almost exactly the same as knuckle's stages in sa1! except if you actually played the game and interacted with the environment, you would have actually experienced the game. sorry you didnt play it during a time in your life when exploring a 3d space was a fun activity.
>It's so much better than the shitty radar in SA2.
lmao filtered retard cant stand figuring out how to efficiently search and needs to always have something beeping.
>Gamma's stages lasted the perfect amount of time.
they're basically non-stages. gamma is a fucking joke.

>>10872625
>wow, almost exactly the same as knuckle's stages in sa1! except if you actually played the game and interacted with the environment, you would have actually experienced the game. sorry you didnt play it during a time in your life when exploring a 3d space was a fun activity.
Wow, brilliant rebuttal. Which room area in Meteor Herd was your favorite? The big empty room in the middle or the giant floating rock? Or how about the tiny floating rock? Or maybe it was the other tiny floating rock with a missile on it?

>>10872432
>Please. You only say this because you've played those stages over and over again.
Nah. Even when I played as a 10-year-old they were that short. When you spawn in and 2/3 emerald radars are going off, the stage is basically already beaten. Nobody ever ran out of time in Final Egg or Emerald Coast or Windy Valley or Red Mountain.

>And this is a bad thing?
Yes. Gamma's gameplay is fun but he only gets one real level. That sucks.

>>10873464
The hidden lava pit that you need to break open a door and hit a switch to open, that has a permanent upgrade and a ton of rings in it. And your favorite part of Knuckles's Red Mountain?

>>10873532
>Yes. Gamma's gameplay is fun but he only gets one real level. That sucks.
It's astonishing how objectively worse Sega managed to turn Gamma's formula in SA2. The mechs control worse, eminate an extremely annoying beeping sound while locking on and are pretty lame design-wise
I guess a case can be made that the stages are better, but then I'm suddenly reminded of the shitty enemy placement in Tails' stages and immediately traumatized.
Hidden base and Eternal Engine are masochism tier.

>>10873606
Funnily, I think the mech stages are actually the closest to classic Sonic in SA2. The mechs accelerate slowly so you're encouraged to keep the momentum up, and you have to efficiently deal with everything in your way. Getting A ranks in them felt super natural in that you just need to play better to get better ranks.

>>10867191
Sonic Adventure 2 blows Adventure 1 out of the fucking water and the fact that anyone trying to praise it has to pretend otherwise thanks to a handful of hipsters is laughable. People will swear up and down that people only hate DX so much because the Dreamcast version is way better, but the reality is that Sonic's stages are the only decent point of the game, all of the other characters' stages are heavily recycled and worse than what 2 has to offer in terms of unique gameplay, and the story and animations in 1 are so laughably terrible by comparison that it isn't even a contest.

Wow, I wonder if the cutscene will be Eggman stealing another emerald and getting away after being defeated, again. Oh no, Chaos is getting stronger! Riveting.

As >>10873637 notes the mech stages are far more interesting to efficiently get through than Gamma's 5 second long blitzes where you're not even remotely challenged. And no, that's not about being overly practiced, Gamma's stages are genuinely pathetic.

And as >>10869652 notes, the Knuckles stages are far more fleshed out in 2. While I think the radar is a genuine downgrade, his stages in 1 are shit for an entirely different reason and it's because they're so tiny that, as noted elsewhere in the thread, your radar will go off on basically everything and you'll clear it instantly. And no, again, this isn't "practice", the very first time I played the game I was baffled at how pointless simply handing you all the emeralds in a tiny enclosed version of Sonic's stages was. Adventure 2's levels probably overcompensated for this weakness a little too much by being slightly too big and the radar being gimped as an overreaction without considering how much more necessary it'd be in the bigger stages. But at least there is a game to learn and the stages are their own unique deal and far more interesting to search through.

The speed stages in Adventure 2 are great too, they're definitely different physics-wise but tons of fun.

>>10867191
i think it probably has the better stages overall
SA1 has more filler/re-used shit

this guy >>10868297 gets it
if youre trying to get high ratings, theres quite a lot of replayability
i liked SA1s chao gardens better, but the actual mechanics of chao and what you can do with them in SA2 far outstrips 1

>>10873731
>if youre trying to get high ratings, theres quite a lot of replayability
Not only that, but simply doing the mission board at all offers so much more than Adventure 1's very basic extra missions on stage replays before the ranks even come into question.

>>10873741
definitely
its been awhile since ive played SA2

>>10867191
It is one of the most videogame videogames. Story is like the videogame equivilent of Con Air or Face Off. Levels are great as score attack fests, mission board can put some unique spins on things, chao garden is really fleshed out. Music fucking slaps - it's corny at times but genuinely, sincerely fucking great. Loses the cool hub areas that SA1 has and the find the emerald stages understandably filter some in SA2 due to precision digging, but otherwise it's better in every regard. Easily the best 3D sonic there is.

>>10873538
based

>>10873773
>Loses the cool hub areas that SA1 has
Sonic Adventure 1's area maps are a feature that sounds cooler on paper than in practice. They're almost entirely pointless and more effort went into giving the NPCs ridiculous amounts of pointless dialogue than trying to make them actually interesting to run through and explore. It'd be one thing if they were like Mario 64's castle hub where you could take advantage of Sonic's movement to have fun while making it to the next stage, but the real deals tend to be "run into spot, grab statue or item that stunts Sonic's movement, run it over to other place, stage unlocked".

>>10873716
>Gamma's 5 second long blitzes where you're not even remotely challenged. And no, that's not about being overly practiced, Gamma's stages are genuinely pathetic.
if i remember right, even game grumps flew through them. that should tell you a lot right there.

>>10873794
I just liked the vibes really. Especially the Egg Carrier. It was a cool airship.

>>10873794
>Sonic Adventure 1's area maps are a feature that sounds cooler on paper than in practice
they were REALLY cool when we were kids tho
its not something that can be truly appreciated in retrospect, but that was new and exciting stuff for us. they were big open 3D sandboxes to fuck around in. doesnt matter there was nothing to do in them, we would just make our own shit to do in them ex: me and my friends used to race around in those jungle paths near bigs house and time each other
we hadnt had the opportunity to be bored by empty hub lvls yet

same reason you see people who havent played OoT since they were kids gush about how awesome hyrule field was. SA1s hubs were much MUCH prettier to look at, had more in them, and there were several of them so there was some variety

>>10874336
3d being a brand new novelty was something special. old zelda puzzles were literally "look up" because controlling a camera was a new way to think. i fucked around peach's castle for HOURS doing nothing at all. im sure plenty of kids did similar shit in oot. it was a different time to be alive.

however, by today's standards, 3d environments are much more well crafted and refined experiences. they are a common medium, not brand new cutting edge stuff. the excitement of simply engaging with a 3d environment is gone for most of us, and kids outgrow it very quickly. by today's standards, the hub stuff is pointless trash.

>>10874336
>>10875402
That's the thing though, even when you try to say that, Mario 64's castle hub holds up perfectly well today. It's genuinely fun to explore and has several meaningful secrets to uncover. It's just the right scale with no padding and makes going between levels exciting by itself.

Hyrule Field on the other hand is a large and empty expanse for the sake of appearing like a huge world at the time... but even then, it holds many small secret alcoves to uncover and lets you have fun riding on Epona in a big open field. Not only that, but the day and night mechanic means that many people fondly remember the first trek over to Hyrule Castle Town and how it turned to night before they could make it, causing the gates to go up and leaving them to fight off several enemies in the dead of night till dawn came again. It's a memorable experience.

Sonic Adventure's hubs on the other hand just don't really do anything like the above. There are some character equips and Chao eggs you can find tucked away, sure, but I've never once gotten the same sense of them being actually fun to traverse around in any way. They feel like they stifle rather than encourage movement, and because the game has linear progression, there's no sense of poking one's head around to find new areas or whatever, you're just trying to figure out the single path to the next level you're meant to go to. Then there's shit like the big forest area of the Mystic Ruins made entirely for kids to get lost in because 95% of it is pointless.

Honestly I think I finally figured out why and it's in what I just said. You're pretty much free to poke around the castle in Mario 64 and you'll find genuine ways to progress in the game. Similarly, exploring the world in OoT will inevitably lead you to something meaningful because the game doesn't railroad you too hard in that regard. In Sonic Adventure you're simply poking around a small maze until you find the right direction to hit the next level.

>>10867191
guess what, i don't acknowledge sa1 OR sa2 as "crap" because they're both fantastic games that zoomers are quite literally not capable of understanding.

it's called sonic the hedgehog because he's a hedgehog and his name is sonic (i.e. sonic the hedgehog)

>>10875440
i agree with you in the spirit of design, but not to the same degree/severity. sa's hub is dogshit. mario's is concise enough, with a few meaningful rewards and content and intuitively gated progression. hyrule field is padded with nothing of real value. while you can "do things" in hyrule field, its still basically empty and pointless, and its just the novelty of 3d. they're all very dated, and mario's is simply less egregious. still dated though.

>>10876273
I realize my post made it sound like I was talking entirely about Hyrule Field by itself but it was more of about how it and the other large areas like Lake Hylia connect with the rest of the world and can lead you t other areas of the game of worth that will help you progress meaningfully. In Adventure there's no real reason to break out of the single path to the next level.

>>10876152
are you sure?

for me hes always been and will always be sonk the honk

>>10876397
i just dont find it that thrilling, especially by today's standards.

>>10867191
The chao garden makes it worth playing

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>start replaying SA2 just for fun
>decide to try out mission 2 for once
>that wasn't too bad, how about 3
>3 was easy, 4 and 5
>4 was pointless but 5 was fun, I should try another stage
I'm gonna end up getting all A ranks I think.

>>10878597
It's a great game anon. Enjoy

>>10867191
>I acknowledge that this game is crap and significantly worse than its predecessor

Well how the fuck do I respond to that? Go away.