What is our best explanation for consciousness? And is there such a thing as reality or is reality is just something hallucinated by our minds? What the fuck is even going on?
>>16129281it's a choose your own adventure novel
>>16129289Why do accidents and absurd wastes of life creep in then?
>>16129281Kind of crazy how consciousness is all that fundamentally exists. That is existence. It's just one conscious perceiving force flowing through existence, experiencing every possible permutation of existence.
>>16129292to keep it interesting
>>16129297>Existence flows through existence and becomes every possible permutation of existenceIt becomes silly quick
>>16129301But there is no one master novel so why does reality fundamentally work as a story? What makes it like that?
I wonder if someone was locked in a room on their own for their whole life with no contact with anyone or any kind of information to learn from, no mirrors so they don't even know what they look like, would that person experience any kind of existential dread? They wouldn't know about a universe or even what death is or that anyone else exists.
>>16129281Best explanation or best explanation that you like?
>>16129329The former
>>16129281I'd go ask /x/ that one.
It's a cope. Brain realized that it had made a mistake in getting too advanced and started to cope. That's how ego that you see as (You) formed. Now the brain is happily back to its autistic tinkering with bodily functions while (You) pointlessly obsess with irrelevant shit like what is consciousness. It is the biggest cope of all time. Your only meaning in life is to cope until your flesh rots away.
>>16129321best thought experiment is someone with zero information input, no senses. is there anyone in there?
>>16129321>>16129782don't need thought experiments when Genie is real and fucked up
We're all just observational terminals in the husk of physical reality for our true selves or self in the embryonic leaves of the collective subconscious. I had two friends who committed suicide when they were undergrads, and I like to think they understood they were just buying new computers. My specs are similar, but I'm a more responsible consumer.
>>16129281Let me guess, you're a schizo who's trying to hint hint us that "of course that objective reality DOESN'T exist, hahaha", or something like that in order to "educate" us. Am I right? This break from reality is a core feature of schizophrenia; many people, even experts, seem to misinterpret it as the schizo failing to determine correctly what is the truth, but no, the whole concept of something being real, or not real, is absent from the schizo mind.
>>16129832"reality" is a word created inside your brain and in fact does not exist outside of it
>>16129281>What the fuck is even going on?1. brain just reacts to environment (bacteria et al.)2. brain starts predicting what's next3. brain includes its own current status when predicting what's nextConsciousness comes from a non-stop continuous Déjà Vu stream.
>>16129786>don't need thought experiments
>>16129839We have 8 billion humans, just torture some and see what happens, why worry when you can empirically prove yourself right or wrong?
>>16129837why would a brain start predicting? a rock reacts to water and wind by weathering, so why would an assortment of neural cells want to predict anything?
>>16129854wow anon, if you never anticipated anything in your life, you might be unconscious NPC
>>16129837OP is talking about consciousness though, not the brain
>>16129281tranime
>>16129928counsciousness is an abstraction sitting on top of a part of a brain thoughie
>>16129281/x/ thread, unobservable
>>16129947Debunked
>>16129975Except consciousness is the root of observation
>>16129983if you fuck someone's head up the consciousness thing goes to shit. there's no fucking consciousness there after a 50cal. there's zero observations for consciousness without a working brain supporting it. if you think otherwise you're a faggot and you like horsecock
>>16129983>>16129987also consciousness formed out of physical need, humans are intelligent because their instincts can be reasoned about and their core ideas are based on fear of death, pain and stress, which they try to avoid at all costs, they also have to deal with boredom in some way as a consequence due to heightened ability to solve problems
>>16129997Humans don't have free will. Consciousness is irrelevant biologically speaking because a p-zombie can accomplish the same exact thing. Consciousness didn't form, it just is. Without it there wouldn't be any reality and thus no existence.
>>16130004lack of free will is proof that it forms physically instead of being christcuckniggerbabble created by le big sky joo
>>16129832stfu shit eating schizo. My god are you the biggest moron on this website. Why do you even come here? You are batshit retarded, why dont you go to boards with other idiots like yourself instead of shitting this board up with your mental illness?
>>16130010not a christcuck but if we are real like this (supported by our matter arrangement), we could "run" in another places/planes of existence if some kind of god has access to our information. I'm not ruling out "life" after we die here. from that consciousnesses perspective. for all we know this can be a sort of "soul" farm.
>>16130017There are no other places, if there were, you could experience them, schizo.Every single human has no free will because they are formed by their environment, bydlo who grew up in family of retards that did drugs and beat him will never be the same as richfag who actually taughthis kids how to not be a subhuman, and no spiritual entity takes part in any of this.
>>16130020>you could experience them,the way it seems to work for us is sequential experience not parallel experience.
>>16130031there's only one reality you know, and most of it is only in your head
>>16130040if this is a farm then yes, that figures. doesn't say anything about what happens after you die here. we are always into a here-now state, that's what we call reality. here-now is not compatible with other shit in parallel. but can work with a neverending stream of experience. even if it becomes wilder and wilder later on (after you die here, eg stop manifesting here)
>>16129834You have schizophrenia. >>16130011It's what it is. Healthy people don't have trouble understanding what "real" means. If you deny it, or think it-l's a social construnct, or whatever, you are schizophrenic.
>>16130041>>16130048take your meds, you cannot even define what objectively is reality, and will never
>>16130051Every normal person understands that while it may be hard at times to figure out how things really are, there is a way they really are. If you think it's something arbitrary, or, I don't know how I would express it without refering to itself, "not real" you have schizophrenia.
>>16130057kek, midwit, you clearly never thought about how each invidual's perception might differ from yours, resulting in reality as humanity knows it being very fractured and warped, especially when lies are spread among them
>>16130048Bodhi is right about you eating shit schizo
>>16130020>>16130020>Every single human has no free will because they are formed by their environmentWhat is your definition of "free will"?
>>16129854>why would an assortment of neural cells want to predict anything?because they were programmed to. They were programmed to because the neurons that did less predicting were less successful and so aren't here to tell the tale
>>16129987what's the problem with horsecock?
>>16129321You are talking about prisoner's whom have been in isolation for decades.
>>16130084truly free will would let you do whatever you want regardless of your surroundings, in real world you are bound by rules in many forms
>>16130048 Science says spheres flips information. The eye is a sphere. Hand standing is the proper view of the world. Left and right are switched. But people still say "you're an idiot if you cannot tell your left from your right". So who is in the right? The people who accept left and right as described from others or who say the opposite but the only information that says that is the subliminal information of the eyes flipping information?Not that it matters besides people agreeing stay in uniform. Like people in America agree to drive on the the right side of the road. But people in Europe agree to drive on the left. It just matters what people agree on
>>16130020You're the schizo. Because people for thousands of years could afford to educate themselves. Before the past 50 years where you can only get educated by the rich.
>>16130108this isn't about education, midwit, your formative years happen before you go to school, if your parents fuck them up, your life is as good as over
>>16130112>If you parents fuck them up. Only the rich can afford not to fuck it up?
>>16130118Only non-bydlo can do it, also if your parents are poor and conceive you, how can they be intelligent? Lmao
>>16129281We have none, there is only cope.
>>16130098>truly free will would let you do whatever you want regardless of your surroundingsThat's a really stupid definition.
>>16130124cope and seethe faggot, losers who yap about muh personal freedumbz get btfo by this everytime too
>>16130125Fag
>>16130125I'd love to take a shit on you and then teabag you. Aren't events as random as these proof of free will. Believe me, if I could, I would, but that opportunity is not coming my way any time soon.
>>16130098>truly free will would let you do whatever you want regardless of your surroundingsThat's a definition of spooky magical wizard powers, not free will.
>>16130130Donkey'e believe there is no freedom/comfort in will.
No because then you are at least just your temple and the mini mind attributed to that state. You can at least choose to tolerate pain or not amongst a small amount of other things. We're not completely restricted, it's technically not 100% prison.Are you saying you think it's 100% prison?
>>16130128maybe if free will was real you could
>>16130134remember that I made this post >>16129777 and you did exactly as I described
>>16130137>>16130137I don't believe in free will I believe in partially free will and free will is possible elsewhere.
>>16130141>partiallybiggest cope of all time, you're merely an agent cast into this world with limited resources and time to cope and find a way to suffer the least amount before the inevitable and your only true unrestricted choice is whether you die of old age or your own hatred for this world
>>16130142So it is partially free if I'm able to opt out. Homo. You were defeated by me. I clearly am the greater mind.
>>16129297schrödinger, like 99.9% of quantum physicists, is a talentless hack only appealing to retards with no actual grasp in physics.
>>16130148yeah killing yourself is so free
>>16130151It's not even that though there are a small amount of other things you can do. You clearly haven't analysed this properly, you've picked up about one stick and your swinging it around as if it's many.
>>16130152>other things you can dolike cope, cope and more cope?
>>16130154You're your temple alone.
>>16130156I know it's not much but our simulation is broken and it's what it is until that has fixed. The second coming of christ is as this is referred to in the bible.
>>16130156My "temple" will be a bag of rotting flesh in less than 100 years.
You can sort of land on a moment and then choose to try and change it to cause a little interference or do your best to stay stable in that moment to not interfere at all and that's about it. That's the effect of being a temple alone.
>>16130160The rest of you is basically in a drone phase and it scouts your temple and conjoined mind part to later emancipate you to something close to what you truly want or need.
>>16130060That doesn't refute reality, you are schizophrenic.
>>16130159Now fart in my mouf.
>>16130169you cannot refute reality because you don't comprehend it.
>>16130173HAHAHAHAHAHAH THEY THINK STUPIDLY.Fuggin faggits.Be more like Barkon
>>16130179reality is not what you think
>>16130183You may want to ask your body to tell you what it is you need to think. You probably don't know exactly what it is to be only your temple
>>16130191Your full temple, is connected to a brain part that is near the crown or the more organic side of your head. Your temple that is attributed to being your temple is different. You should be able to contact your body with the former to tell you where you should focus on and even what part of the brain is corelate.
>>16129281there is none because science cant observe it
>>16130702Science can’t observe consciousness? But we can
>>16130702Science =/= realityAll science can do is predict using models, and those models fall apart when too many variables are introduced. It could never tell me that I'm not free, or especially that I don't actually feel the emotions, sensations, or thoughts that I do
>>16129289You have only illusion of choice.
>>16130813Probability of something happening is always 100%. If its below this number we lack necessary information and that's what probabilities measure.
>>16131005Did you like miss all of post-Bayes probability
>>16129281All information exists on a physical level.
>>16129837>3. brain includes its own current status when predicting what's nextI really like this explanation.
>>16129854>why would a brain start predicting?I throw a rock and you need to predict it will hit your head to be able to dodge it.
>>16131056Okay, show me one drop of "redness" and I'd like a side order of "happiness".No, sorry, you brought me an electromagnetic frequency - which is useless to me - and dopamine. I said "redness" and "happiness".>they don't existNow you're just being lazy.
>>16131078>Researchers at the National Eye Institute (NEI) have decoded brain maps of human color perception. The findings, published today in Current Biology, open a window into how color processing is organized in the brain, and how the brain recognizes and groups colors in the environment.>"This is one of the first studies to determine what color a person is seeing based on direct measurements of brain activity," said Bevil Conway, Ph.D., chief of NEI's Unit on Sensation, Cognition and Action, who led the study. "The approach lets us get at fundamental questions of how we perceive, categorize, and understand color.">The technique provides a direct measurement of brain cell activity using an array of sensors around the head. It reveals the millisecond-by-millisecond changes that happen in the brain to enable vision. The researchers recorded patterns of activity as volunteers viewed specially designed color images and reported the colors they saw.>The researchers found that study participants had unique patterns of brain activity for each color. With enough data, the researchers could predict from MEG recordings what color a volunteer was looking at – essentially decoding the brain map of color processing, or "mind-reading.">"The point of the exercise wasn't merely to read the minds of volunteers," Conway said. "People have been wondering about the organization of colors for thousands of years. The physical basis for color-;the rainbow-;is a continuous gradient of hues. But people don't see it that way. They carve the rainbow into categories and arrange the colors as a wheel. We were interested in understanding how the brain makes this happen, how hue interacts with brightness, such as to turn yellow into brown."https://www.news-medical.net/news/20201117/Researchers-decode-brain-maps-of-human-color-perception.aspx
>>16129839He is obviously saying we have actual evidence to cite so citing cute ideas instead of the available evidence is a massive step down in rigor.
>>16129832Except that most people believe reality isn't real and they will go to the real reality immediately after they die.
>>16129854Rocks also start growing algae on them when they predict that their environment will remain moist.
>>16130004>a p-zombie can accomplish the same exact thing.Only if there is a preexisting p-agent to give it instructions and even then, the slaves stop functioning correctly when the master stops giving instructions and feedback.
>>16130048By your weak definition, 90%+ of humanity has schizophrenia since nearly 90% of people believe in some kind of afterlife that renders this one some kind of fake test for the true reality.
>>16130124Then don't use stupid words like free if you understand that your aren't actually free, but constrained to some body with limited capacity.
>>16130128They aren't random, those are both related to biological bits and functions that greatly amuse childish retards.
>>16130151It actually the only bit of freedom you actually have, whether to live another day constrained to your body or not.
>>16130169You haven't even defined reality by anything other than perspective illusions that are easily manipulated, so there is nothing to refute.
>>16129318Because our temporal dimension is affected by the concept of entropy, just like our spatial dimension.The dimension above our temporal dimension contains all possible ways time could and can move "forward".Time doesn't just move forward, however, it moves "towards" the path that would make it differ the most from its previous state.That is, until life was created. You see, the neurons in our brain work on a quantum level. With enough neurons in one place, you displace some of the force that entropy has on the flow of time.With enough brains, time will move towards that which the collective wishes for.Which is, paradoxically, even more entropy. Most people want reality to be interesting, after all.You should observe the state of the world; the most interesting possibility tends be favoured more than any alternative.
>>16129281Consciousness is clearly caused by jewish mythological figures that can use magic.
>>16130813>It could never tell me that I'm not freeIt can develop ways to actively constrain you even further and prove that you aren't free and that any illusions of degrees of freedom can be taken away by various machines, devices, procedures and chemicals.Just reflecting you own actions and words back at you with a small delay is enough to disorient most people enough to strip them of all of those things.
>>16131123>>16131143It isn't about what beliefs you have. Schizophrenics lack reality as a concept, what is true or false is merely an agreement, a social construct that can be changed. >>16131151It isn't something that could be refuted.
>>16131190Then why would they be trying to >>16129832 hint that reality doesn't actually exist if they lack it as a concept entirely? >>16131190>It isn't something that could be refuted.It is refuted by a belief in an afterlife or belief in some other plane of existence above reality.
>>16131190>Gaslighting: the postCorrupt scientific institutions have destroyed faith in the ability of science to figure out objective (independent from subject, ideology etc.) reality. Don't blame schizos for the failure of scientists and take your booster.
>>16129281Consciousness is just memory. We aren't conscious in the first few years of life and we also don't have any memories of it. When we are blackout drunk the same thing applies, we are not conscious and afterwards there's no memory of the event.
>>16131198>Then why would they be trying to >>16129832 (You) # hint that reality doesn't actually exist if they lack it as a concept entirely?Because people talk about it, but it doesn't make sense to them. >>16131205Science has been thoroughly infested by schizos.
>>16131234In other words, it just doesn't mesh with their deeply held beliefs, it has nothing to do with the concept being entirely absent from their framework of beliefs, its just a belief they have rejected like 90%+ of the world who believe in afterlives, parallel realities, and planes of ascension rather than one unassailable universal reality that everyone has an equal share in.
>>16131240On the contrary, the whole "post truth" era is the result of schizophrenia becoming normalized.
>>16131108you have evidence for consciousness for someone born with zero sensory input? you KNOW they have consciousness?
>>16131256Your concept of schizophrenia has been the norm for all of documented history, its not until recently this century that atheist has grown from like <1% to ~3%.
>>16131262How can we know if rocks have consciousness with this logic? If its a functional human brain isnt it safe to assume it experiences consciousness?
>>16131262You have evidence that anything can have zero sensory input?
>>16131272It appears to be mostly a post WW2 stare, + the dark ages.
>>16131277>starestate
>>16131273we know consciousness needs electrical activity. if we stop the electrical activity of a brain the consciousness part goes away. there's no consciousness forming electric activity in rocks.>>16131276you're acting like a faggot. sensory input is something well defined, you can't just apply it to fucking rocks. sensory input implies hardware to decode it.
>>16131234>Science has been thoroughly infested by schizos.Do you mean hitherto unverifiable hypotheses like multiverses? There must be a see-saw effect between imagination and observation: it can't be either one or the other. Or do you mean that all these PhD celebrities are masquerading their buddhist' belief as scientific truth?>>16131256>the whole "post truth" era is the result of schizophrenia becoming normalized.It's one kind of intellectual dishonesty attacking another kind of intellectual dishonesty. It's replacing the failure of rational enlightenment with new age ''enlightenment''.
>>16131284 meand for your next trick you'll forcefully and completely miss the fucking point because why not, it's free
>>16131277What? Not being schizophrenic according to a retarded definition?
>>16131284Electrical activity affects rocks too, they all have their own unique, measurable surface eddy currents, so we know that metallic rocks disperse that electricity much more efficiently.
>>16131295>pizza is made from ingredients ergo whatever ingredients I mash together will always make pizza
>>16131301>If a pizza has anchovies or pineapples, it doesn't count as a pizza to me just because I don't like those things.
>>16131306you would eat a double topping of shit on your pizza just to make a retarded point tho
>>16131307No, but it would still be a shitty pizza, I wouldn't pull off the logs of shit and call them lovely candy bars like you would.
>>16131310>>16131307>>16131306>>16131301Fags
>>16131310if you're using "rock" as an euphemism for a brain like computer made of silicon and other shit found in rocks, yeah, "rocks" may be able to have consciousness. but that's it. as far as we know consciousness happens in human brains. if you say otherwise prove it.
>>16129281Its frustrating that we still know so little how brain works. You have to give it a decade or two and we can pinpoint exactly where this or that idea or feeling in your brain arose. After this you cant retreat behind lack of evidence and claim that consciousness is some kind of a metaphysical or magical entity.
>>16131319Consc allows you to retract. Consciousness is the 'essence', the 'ness' of being conscious of things using the consc. Consc is not all of the individual's life simulation, the experience-r. Consc is about 2 steps out of the core of that. As said, consc allows us to retract mentally.
>>16131318All Rocks MatterThe thing you are trying to isolate as the source of consciousness, electrical activity, still applies to rocks.
>>16131323certain electrical activity anon, a quite particular one.proceed to bang your head on the wall as hard as you can in the hopes of coming up with a way to completely miss my point.
>>16131327Oh, you are that faggot who constantly insists that you are the only consciousness.
>>16131329nope, that guy is a retard as well.
Soon we will have livefeed of what others can see in their consciousness.
>>16131334Then the electrical activity is obviously not as particular as you claim since consciousness appears to come in many shapes and sizes.
>>16131337if I'd be stupid enough to have my brain scanned at all times.
>>16131341Bro. You're a fag. Everyone needs to stop ignoring my responses as I give concise answers where as you bite each other's bums and clap your own cheeks
>>16131339>bicycle need two wheels? that's clearly a bicycle
>>16131344what do you actually want?
>>16131341You don't have to consent, brain waves radiate just like radio waves.
>>16131345The two wheels you listed were a body and electrical activity, both of which apply to rocks, then you arbitrarily said no those wheels don't count because I say so.
>>16131322Consider this:
>>16131348there's low res in what makes it out. you need to wear something, like an idiot, to leak your brain activity to that resolution. just like you're wearing those shit smart watches>but it can call the ambulance if I'm having a brain strokeyou will be doing it to yourself because you want the new cool thing
>>16131351Consider this:
>>16131355>there'sI read that as there was since tech always advances far beyond what retards like you tend to predict.
>>16131359>FTL is real because....it just is okay?you need to prove that shit you brainlet. show how all internal activity leaks outside the confines of brain (ALL of it). if ALL of it doesn't make it out, we automatically can say what does make it out is lower res.
>>16131364Which is why the image on the bottom is lower resolution than the image on the top, but to get a good idea of what you are seeing and thinking, they don't need all your brain activity since most of that activity is dedicated to subconscious functions anyway, even if you are probing it, it is lower resolution, but still enough to decode your senses and intended response.
>>16131366sure, they may be able to do it, that's not what I am denying. what I am saying is that they can't really do it without you cooperating. you need to wear something on your head, for one reason or another, so they get access to your thoughts. they need to capture something you are leaking
>>16129305>unconscious matter suddenly becomes conscious It's all so silly anon. It's the silly little joke of a dreaming god.
>>16129281https://opentheory.net/principia-qualia/
>>16131380All you need to wear on your head is space since space is host to the electromagnetic field in which brain waves travel, so any time you are in some entities air space like in a country you don't own, they can access the em fields that emanate from your body.
>>16131384Even then, other nations can easily spy on the air space of each other.
>>16131382>unconscious matter suddenly becomes consciousjust like conscious matter suddenly becomes unconscious
>>16131390Wow, you solved the hard problem of consciousness. On this basket weaving form no less. Meanwhile the we're interested in panpsychism again.
ITT: retards derping
>>16131384you need to fucking prove whatever leaks out of your brain is higher intensity than background noise at more than few cm away from your head.you motherfuckers hate science so fucking much don't you? you just come here in the hopes of finding out about some scientific detail that you can rape at will to justify your brainrot
>>16131394How many cm do you think brain waves travel and how many do you think they need to travel to have enough information for an AI to make a shitty low res image of the gay porn you are watching?
>>16131390affirming the consequent fallacy
>>16131396
>>16131156That has nothing to do with the fact that only I can ultimately decide what I do. The observation that environment influences decisions is trivial.
>>16131398I'm sending you a lecture through the mind now.
>>16131399No, if you are constrained, you can not do things, if your hands are handcuffed, you can not do what you want to do with your hands, you can only hold them in the position in which they are cuffed.
>>16131396there's detecting whatever leaks outside, which is not high res by any means. most shit scanners are detecting some BPM thing for activity (alpha/theta brainwaves shit). then there's invasive scanning, but not invasive in the electrodes in brain sense, rather shooting something into your brain. like an x-ray scan or something. that is invasive if they're interacting with the insides of your brain. but I'm pretty sure they won't make secret fMRI scans of your brain since the tech would be quite obvious.plus the amount of trouble they'd have to go to just to scan your brain tells me your a self-centered narcissistic burger who's seriously overestimating his value on this planet.
>>16131406Sure, you are the one who understands everything and knows exactly how technology will evolve but chooses to pretty much say nothing and make no actual hard claims.
>>16131412you don't even really know why anyone would want to scan your brain. you're narcissistic that way
>>16131414Nice retard take, but a retard like you clearly doesn't understand why most people do most things.
>>16131415well if you were some top scientist with some secret knowledge sure, you might be at risk of having your brain forcefully scanned.
>>16131418Its not forceful if there is no contact.I am not worried about people scanning my brain, you are the one who seems to be worried and in denial of the possibilities, I am excited to be able to scan yours or anyone else's.
>>16131396It will be mandatory for mcdonals employees and rich people will use the hats to control electrical devices with their thoughts.
>>16131285I mean that it's almost entirely delusions, not real, whatever field you pick.>>16131292Schizophrenia becoming normalized.
>>16131440How do you discern reality from delusion?
>>16129281Determinism is oxymoronic.You can be predetermined to not be predetermined and this premise would be valid logic.It's like how order and chaos are really the same thing. Consciousness is a predetermined state of not being predetermined. Recursive in nature. Agitative but not necessarily unable to be passive for passive in itself can be agitative relative to something.Consciousness is more of a complex architecture in motion that manifests this. It is not merely a physical dominion unless in the field of say medical science, where it merely is reduced to being reactive and responsive in a way subjective to how people normally assume a person normally is. While very handy within the field of medical science, this is not true consciousness which is a far more primitive systematic architecture describing a recursive state of agitation.
>>16129321>would that person experience any kind of existential dreadNo, he would just be a universe, which is more akin to self torture or self pleasure.Perpetual masturbation.God is a pervert that goons to himself.Or really it's more like self harm.
Fundamentally, all of these philosophical tricks are abstractions of something we're observing without ever finding a fundamental conclusion.Meaningless junk.Unless it become conscious, constructive and pragmatic as tool. Which at it's core can be somewhat reduced to mere satisfaction at a moment or a point in time. The fog of war of conceptual scoping is our nemesis, but also our own folly.
I call it the magicians dilemma.It probably has some arty farty name somewhere.
All subjective opinions, feelings and word play about logic are physical processes in your brain. Some kind of magical soul different from your physical body doesnt exist or at least we are yet to see any scientific evidence for it. Its your physical brain experiencing consciousness and wishful thinking about magic being real wont change that.
>>16131484>Some kind of magical soul different from your physical body>implying the physical cannot be magicalNow you're twisting a concept there.The concept of magical soul overlaps with physical body. It is merely conceptual expansion at it's most primitive definition. It has an additional character that respects the thing in itself paradox.Science is, at it's most primitive roots, historically related to magick. It was literally derived from magick.It was merely the taking of that gobble-di-gook and reducing it to primitives and a "magic ritual" called empiricism. Be careful with your assumptions, remember that Newton was an alchemists and that scientists are really wizards in a smart looking suit with goggles and an aura of smug because their shit actually fucking works as a method and the other shit didn't.
>>16131443Here let me shit on your face. You feel it?Welcome to reality. Enjoy eating shit.
>>16131427Why bother with electrical devices when they could effectively control the employees?
Consciousness is a Jewish scam. There's no such thing. It's a ness word that's not even defined.
>>16131440>Schizophrenia becoming normalized.It had been normalized all of history with the socially cohesive force prior to the 20th century being temples and churches that primarily deal in deities, spirits, and afterlives.
>>16131472apply you retarded namefag label so I can continue to filter your generative nonsense
>>16131519So if you suddenly woke up with shit on your face and limited memory specifically with no memory of who did it, how would you discern the real culprit?
>>16131443I can't think if any hard rule to be honest. A delusion is typically complex, self consistent, and at odds with the world. In simple words it doesn't work, or concerns something that wouldn't make any difference anyway. But it never is outright nonsensical, only implausible, unjustified, contradicted by experience or observation. Evidence against it is not accepted, further complexity is accumulated with evidence to explain why it doesn't refute it, the belief itself is more complex than the data that it's based on, while real beliefs tend to get simpler, summarize the data into smaller, more meaningful bits.
>>16131586Like how your insistence that your physical experience applies equally to everyone, despite people constantly telling you otherwise?
>>16131590People have different experiences in the same reality. I guess you're thinking of talking with other schizos, and noticing that you hold incompatible views.
>>16131560Shit in retort at the direction I theorise it came from.Shit echolocation.We poop bats now.
>>16131554I was making a point about fucking language.It's especially relevant to consciousness because medical science makes a dumb assumption and not a more broad systems related conceptualisation of it.
>>16131586Then you must agree that ideas need to be consistently confirmed by observation. It follows that you must be completely agnostic about the nature of consciousness and reality like a mathematical equation is completely agnostic about the nature of its variables. Your worldview is 100% structural with 0% essence and 0% morality and 0% meaning and 0% value because what is not structural is not an observable fact. Am I wrong about your view?
>>16131601If you now admit that all people don't all have the same physical experience hence don't share some common universal laws of physics what is your new proof that they are all in the same reality? Also if all people are in the same reality doesn't that mean you are now claiming to be in the same reality as Huckleberry Finn which makes your reality set in a fictional novel?
Where's Barkon Bootel's crack
>>16131607>medical science makes a dumb assumptionMaybe it has something to do with the field being focused on health instead of study of biological organisms.
>>16131590>Like how your insistence that your physical experience applies equally to everyoneMy only argument was that this experience is a physical process in the brain. Your consciousness is a physical process. For everyone to experience the same way the same things would require physically identical brains.
>>16131625Fuck off faggit no one wants to hear your drivel
>>16131626How old are you?
>>1613163132
>>16131632Lmao you seem a little left behind.
>>16131633Fart on my neck pls
>>16131625>a physical process in the brain.which is part of the experience so how can you tell the difference between a reality that is made of mind and a reality that is made of matter?
>>16131619But a mis-conceptualisation could literally cause ir-repairable harm to someone if it's used the way it is to make a medical decision upon?How do you know they are conscious, really, if you cannot properly pinpoint a more objective frame of reference?It just becomes the discretion of the doctor, merely based on some rough indicators right?This method of analysis is potentially risky because it makes shit up about what a conscious person is.One day it could be used to limit a person's capacity to reject procedures full stop, merely because of the discretion of the doctor. In fact I know it already does this.
>>16131645Im not claiming that the brain is a perfect machine that processes its environment perfectly with 100% accuracy. Im claiming that your conscious experience is part of physical reality made of matter and other particles.
>>16131668Please dont ask any biologist medical advice. They study how biological systems works not how you can fix it.
>>16131674So if you know for a fact that any statement your brain produces is not 100% accurate, what percent of physical reality would you guess is actually made of matter and particles?
>>16131674>Im claiming that your conscious experience is part of physical reality made of matter and other particles.What is physical about physical reality? What makes matter tangible?
>>16131403That means I can't decide certain things, not that I'm incapable of making decisions
>>16131678This is about doctor decision making process, not mere observation by biologists.The basis they make decisions on regarding consciousness is a terribly assumption when we're on the verge of invasive surgical implant procedures on the brain.
>>16131723Mouf. Now
>>16131718You are incapable of executing your decisions, you can decide you want to scratch your balls all you want, but with your hands cuffed tightly behind your back, you can't do anything about it. I am assuming you are ESL because when people say they ultimately get to decide what to do themselves it usually means the thing they did was a result of their decisions, not that they could only do the things other people constrained them to, so you are not actually free to do what you want when you are handcuffed to a cage.
>>16131718What?So the decision to lift your arm is not applicable?
>>16131679the brain is a best effort thing. efforts are on a spectrum, some do better, some do worse.>what percent of physical reality would you guess is actually made of matter and particles?doesn't matter, it's not optional. unless you commit kys. you don't have a choice, ever. you wake up and have to exist. and deal with all of this shit. don't matter what we call it. doesn't change the fact that it's not fucking optional.
>>16131779>you wake up and have to existI slept for 83 hours yesterday.>it's not fucking optional.What percent of physical reality is optional? What is the bell curve of the spectrum? Why do you keep dodging the question by distancing your words from matter while using metaphors involving bodily functions instead of providing hard facts?
>>16131791not sure what you're going for. whatever words you use to describe reality, doesn't change it, or the fact that it's forced on us. if you're not careful you can hurt yourself, and can't will the pain away with stupid shit like "but it's just forces interacting".
>>16131797Then why are people able to use that mindset to do insane feats without flinching or physically reacting as if in pain like pushing spikes all the way through their skin, hanging from hooks, ice baths, and even simple combat sports what if pain is just a nerve and adrenaline thing and with the right ideas you can will the pain away?
>>16131800there's people who don't feel pain, at all. seems like at downside at times, for them. but they can die. like anyone else. they still don't get a choice.the general idea with science is to understand reality so it becomes less obligatory and get more optional, for as many things as we can. the way science uses words to describe it is useful. the way others are doing it might be useful for some shit, like lies that make you feel better, you can argue for that sure. but in the end you get more options with science's words. science (scientific method) not Science, make the distinction.
>>16131802>in the end you get more options with science's words.>t. option limiter specifically using science to justify one reality instead of manyStill no hard facts and how much is reality, how much is optional, how many more options science supposedly, just adding more degrees of complexity instead proving a single hard fact.
>>16131804I get it, you're looking for ways out of this inevitable bullshit. I'm not blaming you really. I just don't think denial works long term
>>16131814Ironic since I just pointed out your infinite regress bullshit and now you stop trying to add more degrees of complexity and just try to throw up a firewall instead of simply backing up your claims about how everything is so hard and everything hard is shit with actual tangible hard facts.
>>16131612I honesly don't know. You know what? Try taking a walk, or watching a youtube video, or whatever you want, and just watch, and don't try to judge everything you see, just observe it. You need to build it from the ground up, build it up from your senses, rather than coming up with some meaning right now, let it come, don't try to interpret it. Just shut your mind for a while and try to see, hear, smell, whatever applicable, as much as possible. Hope it helps you to connect with the world, and you notice your delusions shattering soon.
>>16131822>science is ultimately based on faith so it's useless.have faith your head won't hurt when you bang it on the wall.
Its understandable that people cope about having a soul making decisions and going to afterlife. Life is rough out there.
>>16129321They would notice they are getting older, you don't need mirror for that.
>>16129321As babies, you need a wide amount of information to develop your brain so that it can create a diverse set of categories, pick up language skills for communications, reasoning skills, etc. If someone was raised in a clean room with very little to no input, they'd be functionally retarded or rather may even be functionally dead as they cant understand anything
>>16131856there's massive info in a room. you get the permanence thing after you scratch the walls or something. that's still info helping you along. zero information input from the start would make for some random activity but strange to think about, as being consciousness.
>>16130150>like 99.9% of quantum physicistsTry 100% ;)
>>16131838if I'm being honest with myself I'm closer towards christfags than atheists, just that in a way that I feel embarrassed by them. they're like my retarded cousin or something.if all of this doesn't scare you then you haven't been paying attention. the mere fact of anything existing at all is what should ring all alarm bells for anyone. science at least did this thing wrong, took all this strangeness out of it, like all of this IS FUCKING NORMAL! which it fucking isn't. and science may have had a point if it wasn't for the fucking quantum bullshit. I'm agnostic but there is fuckery with our "reality"/experience. so life after "death" is quite possible, and not only that, it will make fucking sense, once there in "afterlife" whatever.
>>16129281Do you need consciousness to experience dreams?
>>16131611I honesly don't know.You know what? Try taking a walk, or watching a youtube video, or whatever you want, and just watch, and don't try to judge everything you see, just observe it. You need to build it from the ground up, build it up from your senses, rather than coming up with some meaning right now, let it come, don't try to interpret it. Just shut your mind for a while and try to see, hear, smell, whatever applicable, as much as possible. Hope it helps you to connect with the world.
>>16129321No, he wouldn't have a concept or understanding of death, so he also can't fear it.If he is top tier smart (130+ IQ being a necessary but not a sufficient criterion) he will have a tendency towards philosophical musings. And if that is the case, he might derive the existence of death from his own non-existence prior to a point. But merely above-average or below person? Forget about it. Billions of people have been born, lived, and died happily never once wondering what it implies that they apparently did have no pre-existence, either (but they wonder very much about their post-existence, hence Abrahamic religion).>>16131842You have not thought this through. Getting older is neither conceptually linked to dying, nor is death as a consequence somehow an obvious inference for someone of average intelligence. Though I do think what I said also applies here: the high intellect could derive the conclusion that him getting more frail => at one point, so frail that a critical life support system fails.But again, the subject is raised entirely without knowledge from the outside world. To him, it isn't even obvious he is made of organs, or that organs are necessary to life.>>16130092No he isn't. You are most likely a spambot.
>>16131966I find that some of the metaphysical implications with what we know about the universe so far is extremely grim and disturbing but theoretical physicists and even normalfags think it's okay or even a good thing because they are solipsistic autists who are incapable of empathy.If consciousness doesn't cease at death permanently and irrevocably than we are already in hell right now.
>>16131828What? Did you just have a mental breakdown? Who are you quoting? Anyway I have built up a tolerance to walls by banging my head against small walls and slowly working up to larger ones over time.
>>16130020>t. Bydlo
>>16131612 Imagine it as an RPG game. People play different characters in different ways, but the game mechanics remain the same for all.
>Uses reality to make his gay thread>Ummm guys is this LE REAL? I’m 12 and very profound
Whether or not the universe is real/authentic, there are aspects of its (possible) simulation that impose reality on the users.
>>16132821Even a simulation would be ”real”, you stupid animal
>>16132822That's (almost) what I said you dumb faggot.
>>16132822you just proved him right
>>16132821Confusion isn't whether the universe is real. There's a universe. The confusion is whether there's a "self" which "experiences" a universe in a "simulation." The straightforward answer is there is no self, there is no experience, and there is no simulation for these to take place in. There's just the universe self-organizing and moving on.The universe existed before Earth. The universe will exists after Earth.
>>16131398
>>16129292>why are there more keys on the piano than needed for this song
>>16133050Why can't you come up with anything more sophisticated, than calling everyone who disagrees with you stupid?
>>16129281God is the best explanation.
>>16129777>dualismretard
>>16135710Most probable explanation doesn't mean best
>>16132082Makes me wonder what that guy in a vat would do if he wanted to end his life. Even cavemen if they became suicidal would know what body part to aim for or obliterate to guarantee cessation of life
>>16129281Love this anine grillWhy are there so little pics here this is an image board baka
>>16131002so? it doesnt make it feel any less real, that is the whole point of the illusion, to make it feel real
>>16129318there is a master novel, in the realm of forms. the plot was already conceived the story is already written, all you get to do is make a choice which page to flip to. I have already explained all this in great detailhttps://esotericawakening.com/is-free-will-an-illusion
>>16131143>people who accuse other people of being mentally ill for not agreeing with them (especially when they are objectively wrong) are themselves the ones that are mentally illWhat an amazing discovery you have made. If only there was a term for this ... like say "projecting" or something
>>16131337I CAN FILM MY OWN HENTAI SOON?!
>>16129281It's just one thing experiencing all. Because at the absolute most fundamental scale, everything is connected, and therefore the universe is one single thing
>>16129281> Is reality real> What is our explanation for consciousnessThese sorta questions are a fucking waste of time only asked by couch potatoes who fancy themselves intellectuals
>>16129292Just for experiencing it.
>>16138612These sorta answers are from psychopaths who are only interested in learning for the sake of manipulating reality.
>>16138832There are three aspect typical for a schizophrenic delusion:1. Consistent. 2. Complex.3. Not true.Virtually always it has its internal logic. It isn't outright noneense. But it isn't true. Typically it's extremely complicated, much more so than the real answer.
>>16138832humans do that out of cope. same story with God, they looking for him to hustle some of that sweet godly power to smite thy enemies and snort coke
>>16140024A schizophrenic honestly doesn't understand what it means that his delusions aren't be true. He will actually claim that his view is consistent, and demand that you find some flaw WITHIN the delusion, and its logic. Reality simply doesn't exist for him, it's something the society agreed on, and something that can be changed if he works hard enough to convince everybody. In fact if you argue with him that it just isn't real, he will probably think that you don't want it to be true, because why else would you deny it?
>>16140033I get your point but everything you said past the first sentence is more of a perchance thing. most likely he's wrong, but there are situations where he would be right.you're implying humans don't collectively agree on shit, to act as if, with no scientific proof, you are implying humans on average are mentally sane, which again...isn't the case. humans are mentally deranged to a frighteningly high percent. they just hide it by default. so you'd have to work seriously hard to convince everybody on some new strange non-intuitive "thing". all of them will tell you it's not real (because of the non-intuitive part), and they secretly wish it wasn't true, because it invalidates some of their bullshit. they really wouldn't have a reason to fight you on it, unless it threatens they lose money, power, control, or internal narrative cope.now, I may be schizo, or I may be right. or both.
Fulfillment eventual travesty kinning
>>16137747No, anon just had a shitty poorly thought out definition with implications they didn't even realize or think through.
>>16129281Consciousness is a feeling; it is itself a type of qualia, which is subjective experience, constructed by multiple parts of the brain and body working in tandem. It is not something that goes from 0 to 1; it evolved gradually, primarily as a byproduct of memory. We can experience partial forms of it (e.g., during REM sleep) and other animals have different iterations of the feeling since they have different brains and bodies.
>>16130020>richfags>not subhuman
