You think Marxists don't know Adam Smith?
>>23323319yes
>>23323319Anyone with a functioning stomach implicitly understands Adam Smith, including Chairman Mao Zedong.
>>23323298Henry George “Progress And Poverty”
The real answer is basically any book by Ivan Illich.
>>23323393Even Deschooling Society? I’ve read that.
>>23323298The heaviest one on your shelf, in order to beat them to death with it.
>>23323298
>>23323403Yeah, he talks about how school is basically the same whether it's in a capitalist country or in a communist country. Either way it creates consoomers who think they can just consoom certificates of education from an insitution rather than being naturally curious. It creates learned helplessness basically. Commies took the bourgeois conception of state education and just used it to teach Marx good Stalin good Castro good instead of opening up all of society to hands-on learning opportunities and allowing students to organize their own learning webs.
>>23323393>>23323535Based Illich poster
>>23323541ilich is cringe
>>23323323Adam Smith and Marx would agree on far, far more than any modern day neoclassical economist or "classical liberal" would agree with Smith. (One example: Despite common misconception, the Labor Theory of Value did not originate with Karl Marx. Adam Smith was also a proponent of it long before Marx.)>>23323393The problem is that communism sounds good in theory, so you guys are trying to meet that with more theory. I think the real answer are dispassionate books about the actual history of communist countries like "Everyday Stalinism" by Sheila Fitzpatrick (which communists are far more likely to read than a boring textbook by Thomas Sowell, because they're more interested in it). What they'll learn is that those regimes' promises turned out to be hollow, at best, and often made life into a hard, grinding, gut-wrenching survivalist nightmare as they mutated into Saturday morning cartoon dictatorships sitting over a huge number of people who retreated into cynicism, disillusionment and apathy. It's quite fascinating really but the Stalin era was like the bloodiest parts of the French Revolution in which the madness fed upon itself and the regime decapitated its own leadership. Or this:https://youtu.be/3giTYRttoRQMost communists or people who adopt that label whom you're likely to interact with online also have about as much in common with that actual thing as alt-right people do with the Third Reich (i.e. not much) or Catholic converts who microwaved their brain on Twitter and show up at their parish and get disappointed when they're not handed a crusader helmet. They get most of their ideas from 50-iq memes, and while it'd be one thing if the doctrine they held as the irreducible eternal truth of Marxism (or Marxism-Leninism-Maoism/w.e.) was actually a rigorous exegesis of Marx, Lenin or Mao, it's usually not. More a set of priors about what to think rather than a "how" think, and anything problematic is dismissed as "it didn't happen and if it did it was justified," because that's the easiest way to win an argument in 140 characters, and which is how people develop ideology today.
>>23323546In what way, you little braindead zoomer fuck?
>>23323319Marxists don’t know Marx lolTo be a Marxist is to be philosophically, mathematically, and economically illiterate. Marx is filled with contradictions, logical errors, flawed mathematics and the like, but Marxists either don’t care or don’t even know. The only honest Marxists are the ones that admit “yeah, this was flawed but I still accept the ethical mandates of Marxism”, which almost no Marxists do.
>>23323577"take all the stuff from people who are capable of running something in order to give it to people who are incapable of running anything" doesn't sound good in theory actually
>>23323665I'm not a Marxist myself but there are many Marxists who are extremely well read in philosophy, mathematics, and economics. And of course current day Marxists admit Marx's own work was flawed, do you expect them to say it's perfect? He was an economist and journalist, not a prophet from God. Do Kantians say that Kant was flawless? Do Freudians say that Freud was flawless? Of course not.
>>23323665Communism is like a religion. In its heyday it was like other Millenarian sects that expect an imminent apocalypse, and when that doesn't happen, they either recalibrate or die off. They believed that a worldwide overturning of property relations would rapidly lead to a revolution in everything. Cooperation would blossom, and work and freedom become one. Freedom is the fusion of the human will with the will of God, although they didn't believe in God but in "history," whose arc must naturally bend toward justice. The church is the Party, embodied in the leader, who gave the correct line, which freed the believer of all inner doubt.That was the appeal. But by the end of the 1930s the average person had long since lost faith in these promises and was just trying to live their life with as much dignity and normalcy as the twisted system would allow. But frankly, I think "the people capable of running something are going to lose their stuff" that you don't like about it overlooks how big of a disaster it really was. It was a grim, hard life in which scarcity was the rule at every level, and where it was necessary to work favors or connections to secure necessities from food, clothing to housing. It was just a matter of survival. The purges were also focused on... communists. Party members. That swallowed up patronage networks which had been critical to dealing with shortages, which meant many members of society were connected to purged individuals, and turned the violence during the deadliest periods into something completely arbitrary. Paradise on Earth didn't end up materializing in Russia (or Albania or anywhere else), and the result was a large number of nervous breakdowns.
>>23323821>Communism is like a religion. In its heyday it was like other Millenarian sects that expect an imminent apocalypse, and when that doesn't happen, they either recalibrate or die off. They believed that a worldwide overturning of property relations would rapidly lead to a revolution in everything. Cooperation would blossom, and work and freedom become one. Freedom is the fusion of the human will with the will of God, although they didn't believe in God but in "history," whose arc must naturally bend toward justice.This is well put
>>23325075why the fuck did this get uploaded on its side? Fix your website gookmoot
>>23323324By "eat their fill" he meant "cannibalize your loved ones and your neighbors comrade, I still guarantee that the bourgeoisie will soon be eradicated from this country if YOU will fight against them in my behalf, in the meantime I will conduct a bourgeois lifestyle myself"I can't fucking stand that weird ass haircut hypocrite bugman
>>23323535Yeah, makes perfect sense.
>>23323813There are not. If they were, they wouldn’t be Marxists since the errors of Marx are so glaring to anyone trained in mathematics or economics that you can’t possibility ignore them. The difference is that neither Kant nor Freud ran with obvious logical contradictions and mathematical impossibilities. You’ve never even read Capital, obviously. Else you’d know there is mathematics in the book and that it’s not just journalism.
>>23323298I recently finished this.
>>23323298>Using antiquated bourgeois capitalist shit to make socialists see the light.In all likelihood any serious socialist has already read that shit and by the way it definitely isn’t “the light.” “The light” is Third Position and fascist literature.
>>23325165>Third Position and fascist literature.Shit that failed even harder than Communism is "the light?"
>>23325131Clearly you’ve never read Kant nor Freud, actually contradiction is a pretty central theme to the German philosophy of the time - some say resolved along class lines. Maybe try a little more Marx too
>>23325436Communism failed internally, National Socialism lost a war. The latter is not a mark against its political successes. Inb4 dishonest kvetching about muh imperialism
>>23325681>Political success>Lost a war with about 300 advantages in handPick one
>>23325894>have to fight against 3 superpowersYeah a total advantage
>>23323665>Marx is filled with contradictions, logical errors, flawed mathematics and the likeName one.
>>23323298Stop worshipping capitalism and muh individualism and accept America's entire foundational myth is idioticly broken at best and outright fucking satanic at worst.
>>23323686Counterpoint, the most prominent example is the Russian revolution which is a society that Marx himself would have said did not have the level of development required. God knows the Chinese and Cambodians weren’t gonna do it and the South American experiment was tainted by U.S./CIA sabotage. The Germans or French might have been able to do it but they flinched at the key moment.
>>23325947He tried to disprove Calculus with American inner city high school level proofs.
>>23325455Not him, but that’s the issue with Marx and all other ‘German Idealists’ like Kant and Hegel. They don’t see that the glaring error that a contradiction or paradox doesn’t mean that we could just accept and go along with Theory or look deep within ourselves for the answer. Their dialectics don’t fix the problem ar hand and/or just go in back in a circle of “We don’t know if it is right or wrong, or even compatable to logic; it could be or not be, or could be while also not be, or neither thesis or antithesis could be true, or both can be correct in reality despite the contadiction with synthesis.” Now Marx wasn’t strongly like this as Hegel for example, but him using his dialectics for his economic theories puts his work as philosophy also and puts him on fire of unrealiablity for people trying to find clear and unnebulous economic theories than self-contradicting metaphysical word play.
>>23325968No he didn't.
>>23325984I must concede you are playing the role of marxist excellently.
>>23325989Not a Marxist.
>>23323298thank Nick Land for this one
>>23323298>They literally want to kill you and with a free hand with a Glassed America, they'll cull Africa and India as bio-lumpenproles with more extreme prejudice than anything imagined by midcentruy Germans with Generalplan Ost
>>23323298>Highest ranking Soviet defector, strategic staff officer level“Our major secret weapon is to deprive you of an enemy.” — Georgi Arbatov, UC Irvine (1988)
>>23325131There are no complex mathematical calculations in Capital fuckwit. YOU clearly haven’t read it. I’m willing to bet you’re a /sci/kid who saw Marx’s attempted disproof of calculus and ran here to rattle off about how a philosopher doesn’t know math. Newsflash: having passed Cal4 isn’t impressive
>>23326108Holy shit, I was right. >>23325968
>>23326108IQ: 100Meds: not takenDilator: dilated
>>23323535supporting and encouraging natural curiosity is very good, but you're not going to get around the need for certificates attesting to the attainment of certain basic, agreed-upon standards and qualifications.
>>23325952I will as soon as America collapses like everyone keeps saying it's about to and stops being the richest, most powerful, and most influential nation on earth.
chuds arguing with liberals:>le american society is collapsing consumer capitalism has failedchuds arguing with marxists:>le american society is the greatest consumer capitalism is the best
>>23323298Wealth of nations is a prerequisite to reading Marx
>>23326493Influential by abusing its citizens, feeding them toxic slop and dosing them with mind-neutering drugs, allowing multinational corporations and private interests to make a mockery of your institutions whilst making your constitution into their cumrag. All while exporting nigger culture to the rest of the western world and making sure Israel never faces consequences for its despicable ways. You're a cuckold.
>>23326111I made the calculus post, that other post isn't me. >calc 4 isn't impressiveIt is for Marxists, apparently.
>>23326572capitalism made America great, everything is collapsing because the communists took a long 100 year march through our institutions, and they're incapable of running any of the institutions they subverted
Karl Polanyi, The Great TransformationL.S. Stavrianos, Global RiftEric Wolf, Europe and the People Without HistoryK.N. Chaudhuri, Asia Before EuropeK.N. Chaudhuri, Trade and Civilisation in the Indian Ocean: An Economic History from the Rise of Islam to 1750David Levine, Economic Theory
>>23326572Stop pretending everything you argue with over the internet are the same people, bro.
>>23326572>consumer capitalism is the bestI've never seen a chud say this.
>>23326432Illich wasn't against testing people to confirm they have the proper skills before being hired into a job, he just didn't think something like nursing, for example, should be limited only to people who graduate from an artificially gatekept, institutionalized "nursing college" or something. Someone can still be tested on their abilities to administer medication, dress wounds, provide medical care, etc. without literally having a four year nursing degree. Nursing existed long before nursing degrees. Same thing with teaching in many countries. You need a teaching degree. So you have people who don't understand math teaching math but don't allow someone with a mathematics degree to teach math because they don't have a teaching degree.
>>23326818This argument is used all the time. "America is great because the cereal aisle has 100 different varieties of sugary glyphosate slop! How many cereals are in a Cuban grocery store, huh???"
>>23326884Oh, I thought you were talking about the culture of consumerism
>>23326108> complexDidn’t say complex. You did. >>23325947His “refutation” of derivatives which is literally a mathematical fallacy, his baseless assumption about LTV generating surplus value, I could go on. Here’s his actual math:https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1881/mathematical-manuscripts/ch15.htmlIf you can’t find the mathematical errors and misunderstanding of limits here you have absolutely no business doing math or economics. He could be somewhat forgiven considering he did this in the 19th century and analytical calculus wasn’t properly fleshed out yet but you cannot be forgiven for it. The tremendous irony of Marxism is that it demands being historically illiterate in regard to mathematics, calculus, and even basic logic.
>>23325681If your domestic ideology leads you to lose a war and causes such controversy that it effectively discredits right wing political movements for a century or more and you look large in the minds of most modern people as the pre-eminent bad guy of modern history, I’d call that a political failure.
Outside of everything else, I've always felt communism was doomed to fail for one simple reason: it's bad at long-term propaganda.Even working at its best, communism is a system that encourages people to blame a single party - the government - for absolutely everything that goes wrong. Not like in America, which (rightly or otherwise) diverts blame between the public sector and hundreds of different private actors.It doesn't take a genius to figure out which one is going to build concentrated resentment in the long run - not just from the little people but from the ones directly running the system, too.
>>23323481they all look so american, whats up with that?
>>23326995You don’t know any Americans personally, Hans. Stop lying. You have never been outside continental Europe.
>>23326079That book seems out of print unfortunately. I guess I’m gonna have to pirate the thing.
>>23326995There are no Americans in the People's Republic of Portland, just deracinated global citizens.
>>23326668>capitalism made America great, everything is collapsing because the communists took a long 100 year march through our institutionsSeems like a lot of coping. People who say communists have subverted America from within and somehow right underneath everyone's noses reminds me of left-wing conspiracy theories who think America is fascist because the U.S. extracted Nazi scientists during Operation Paperclip (note: the USSR did this too). By that logic, the USSR was also Tsarist in the 1920s because there were a lot of Tsarist military officers in the army, or the DDR was fascist because their officer corps were almost entirely ex-Wehrmacht officers until the 1970s and like half the functionaries of the SED were ex-NSDAP members. I don't think they saw it that way though because the Third Reich had been destroyed and Nazism in any meaningful sense was dead. People think society subsumes itself to a few individuals and specialists rather than the other way around. That's basically the argument you're making but with some college professors.I think it's funny though when mainstream politicians use Marxist-sounding language or arguments. Joe Biden quoting Chairman Mao (he'll say it's an "old Chinese saying"), or Hillary Clinton saying that to compete with China we have to "take back the means of production." Ronald Reagan also used a Marxist base-superstructure argument in the 1980s during a speech to the British Parliament about why the USSR's political superstructure had become disconnected from the requirements of the economic base. Mostly this turns into a "wtf Ronald Reagan was a based communist????" thing on Twitter now, but I like the universal irony involved especially when the influence 20th century totalitarian ideologies are concerned. Michelle Obama trying to get the American population to exercise en masse like the Third Reich. But it's like Dark Brandon or something, he's not the same thing as "that" from the Third Reich, but they might fash themselves up a bit as a form of play, because they think it will help them get votes like Pres. Sarah Palin in Iron Sky:https://youtu.be/C-VglGOKR3EBut that doesn't make them "communists" or "Nazis." There are people who describe Joe Rogan as an insidious gateway drug to the alt-right or a bold alternative voice while having the politics of a NYT columnist circa 1996. Yo thats crazy man, have you ever thought about what it must be like to arm wrestle a chimpanzee? I've been watching a lot of youtube videos of them recently
>>23327551>people who are correct remind me of people who are wrong
>>23325681>The latter is not a mark against its political successes.War is a political action. So yes, it does reflect poorly on their ideas.
>>23326949Notice the pivot from>The difference is that neither Kant nor Freud ran with obvious logical contradictions and mathematical impossibilities. You’ve never even read Capital, obviously. Else you’d know there is mathematics in the book and that it’s not just journalism.To>If you can’t find the mathematical errors and misunderstanding of limits here you have absolutely no business doing math or economics. He could be somewhat forgiven considering he did this in the 19th century and analytical calculus wasn’t properly fleshed out yet but you cannot be forgiven for it.Guess we lost track of all the “mathematical impossibilities” in capital huh. Also, one again, if you had actually read the book you would realize that LTV isn’t baseless. He spends essentially the entire first chapter proving it. That tells me that you haven’t even read the first chapter.
>>23327590Well I think that pic and your reaction to it tells me we live in a world today in which people take representations of things to matter more than anything. The statue of Philip Schuyler was a representation of an historical figure, and here we are battling over these symbols and signs, and are inclined to bombard each other with word-weapons like Nazi or commie. I'm rhetorically annihilating you, in other words, when I call you a Nazi. These supposedly powerful phrases allow me to "frame" the debate going on here, and when I repeat them endlessly, gives me the impression that I have the power of mind control.Or at least it does that for a few minutes before my enemies seize the phrase, reframe it as their own, and by these means "seize control of the narrative," so I end up being killed by my own booby trap.
>>23323298You cannot.They are demoralized and no amount of factual information will break the programming.It is only when a military boot is stamping on their testicles that they will realize the truth.
>>23323319Marxists only pretend to have read Adam Smith, just like they pretend to have read Marx.I can't even believe you're asking this question.
>>23326954>>23327642>unironically thinking the good guys always winThey lost the war because they were outnumbered and outgunned. Germany did exceedingly well given the odds. That's a mark of ideological success.It's only taboo due to a century of propaganda. Propaganda that has now ceased to be effective.
>>23326668>’we the people’America was quite anti-capitalist in its founding. Thomas Jefferson warned against monied corporations trying to seize government.
>>23329904yeah retard, that's why capitalism has antitrust laws
>>23329986Capitalism didn't come pre-packaged with antitrust laws / consumer protection / labour laws etc. Those things came about later as a response to the exploitation that is inherent within capitalism for it to function. And they didn't come from the top. Workers fought tooth and nail, giving up their lives, for those protections we take for granted today. No millionaire factory owner was ever like "Hmm I'm gonna treat my workers better from here on out even though it is a net loss to my own wealth out of the kindness of my heart and I'll make sure other millionaire factory owners follow my example". That's just Ayn Rand-levels of magical thinking cope.
>>23327590>submitted without comment
>>23330596>No millionaire factory owner was ever like "Hmm I'm gonna treat my workers better from here on out even though it is a net loss to my own wealth out of the kindness of my heart and I'll make sure other millionaire factory owners follow my example".Henry Ford literally did exactly that 24 years before Congress passed the Fair Labor Standards Act.
>>23330596Leftists like you want us to believe your system would be good because people are inherently good, but also that as soon as anyone is in the economically dominant position they are going to almost always treat other people like shit. You think if you just change the system, you'll change people, who are in reality fundamentally corruptible.
>>23330596>capitalism didn't do the things capitalism didlmao
Communism is based. Good luck finding a book that can match 50 years of declining living standards lol
>>23330596Wow, systems evolve over time. This is groundbreaking!
>>23332225>>23332239hes not saying that systems just "evolve naturally". hes saying that workers had to fight with their lives (and lose it fairly often) just to reap some of the benefits of their work. if it were up to the owners of the factories you would still be working 12 hour days at 12 years of age (interestingly child labour laws seem to be weakening in burgerland, while the average burger seems to be working more and more. basically that every concession seems to be only temporary) another thing to think about, in their day a 12 hour day was normal, but productivity increases made an 8 hour day produce about the same amount of stuff. productivity has increased now just the same as it increased in the time where these labour revolutions had taken place, so it would make sense that a 6 hour day should suffice except we dont see the same concession being made because the owners dont see it being necessary (americucks dont know the extent of the cuckoldry). if it were just natural that work will get easier and the system will just evolve isnt it time for another evolution?
>>23332400If the fundamental class relationship hasn't changed and the worker's movement is now a shadow of it's former self, why don't the bourgeoisie simply roll back these changes?
>>23332411they are, i said this. people have to work multiple jobs to get by, unpaid overtime is becoming more common, shitty contracts are becoming more common (uber etc contracts), no bonuses, the roe v wade bullshit, workplace safety laws being weakened (google how many train derailments there are, and there are now more fatal workplace accidents in burgerland than in china), child labour laws are being broken with nothing more than an occasional fine, probably a dozen other examples
>>23332418How does Roe v Wade have anything to do with it? There's plenty of examples of it going the other way. Trials of UBI and 4 day week, the emergence of stakeholder/inclusive/woke capitalism. The bourgeoisie is now clearly mostly culturally left. The woke nonsense's epicentre is the most elite schools. Leftist theory can't account for this change so they cope via denialism.
>>23332440>How does Roe v Wade have anything to do with itits a concession taken away, and youll notice i called it bullshit>Trials of UBI and 4 day week>trialsok great, maybe when they come into being then ill agree with you but for now if theyre the only examples you can think of that kinda proves my point (and the point of real marxists/marxist based works)>emergence of stakeholder/inclusive/woke capitalismdo you mean stocks and whatever? because youll notice that the people owning stocks arent the poor people who have to worry about degrading work conditions and pay>clearly mostly culturally left"culturally left" means nothing. marx didnt mention woke, neither did engles or mao or luxemberg or stalin or lenin, or even trotsky or kautsky or hegal (and yes, ive read at least one book by each of those authors). calling anything "woke" marxist shows that you have no understanding of what marxism is. >Leftist theory can't account for this changethe change of what? i think you would be amazed by what actual leftist theory can account for if you ignore the bullshit american ""leftists"" care about (they arent marxists either and all they do is make marxists annoyed)
>>23332461i didnt say my thoughts on the "wokeism agenda". its a fake concession to try and avoid giving any real concession that will help in a real material way, for example a gay person doesnt really benefit from a bus being painted pretty colours or an ad showing two guys kissing. they would benefit from for example, better pay. maybe some gay people do care about the bus painting, i cant say, but what i can say is that marxists dont care about it and dont certainly advocate for it. ask yourself this, who does advocate for it? try name some real people or orgs, and then ask yourself who advocated for raising the standard of living for the lowest in society. because i cant name any in the first group but i can certainly name some in the latter (mlk, einstein, mandela, they were all communists)
>>23332478It's simply more complicated than any leftist analysis paints it. Leftists agitate for those so called "fake" concessions, woke capitalism is a historic compromise between the left and capital, an agreement to crush the chuds, but leftists have to always identify as the underdog that fights the power so you'll never admit it. Old school "anti-idpol" Marxists are a powerless minority. The "real movement" is wokeness.
>>23329101Marxists are like Christians, they never read the books on which their ideology formed because they are ridiculously long and their followers incredibly stupid to fully understand it (in fact both The Bible and Das Kapital are deeply misunderstood)
>>23332596>leftist analysis>Leftists agitatewho? which leftists? do you mean leftist as in americans that happliy vote for the blue team? give me names of the people doing that analysis >compromise between the left and capitalno its not, compromise means that capital has to give something up for it, which they dont. im not sure if you are that anon that couldnt think of any examples, but if you arent you should tell me the examples youve noticed >agreement to crush the chudsonly the vocal chuds for performative reasons. the burger police are these chuds, and the police arent going to crush themselves. ill give you an example, the police didnt care when the chuds stormed the capital. they were there and very very few (if any) got arrested and charged on the same day, it was only after that there were some petty charges laid on the most vocal/moronic of them. capital crushed the blm movement, thousands (possibly tens of thousands) were arrested on the site of the protests, and plenty are still in jail. inb4 "blm did more damage", maybe the caused more damage in terms of dollars, but you are delusional if you think storming capital hill means nothing (and god knows blm protesters would have been machine gunned to dust if they tried it) >leftists have to always identify as the underdogagain no example, but thats excusable on this point. i dont call myself an underdog, my "leftist" friends dont call themselves underdogs. why? because we recognise what a paper tiger is and how the term relates to the real world. we know that even if we are underdogs its not going to be that way permanently, and it certainly wont be that way if we can do anything about it. but again, you probably mean the american blue team >Old school "anti-idpol" Marxists are a powerless minorityask yourself why that is. is it decades of red scare propaganda? the mass rounding up and slaughter? is it because people on /lit/ make threads looking for books to make commies see the light without reading any books commies wrote to make them see the light? is it the assasionation of people such as mlk or malcom x? or the blatant whitewashing of einstein and nelson mandela? is it because socialism is treated as a mental illness in most western countries?they are powerless because the powerful made them powerless is what im saying, and even with all the effort trying to discredit them there are still old school non woke commies around
>>23332636>never read the books on which their ideology formedthats the same point as all the rest though, burger libtards dont count as marxists, even if they try to call themselves marxists. its like saying youre a basketball player but never playing basketball, it just doesnt work that way. >ridiculously long and their followers incredibly stupid>longthe manifesto can be read in a few hours (i wouldnt recommend it, only the first half means anything today and theres better books on the topic), and the principles of communism can be read in an hour at the most. >stupidi said in my previous few posts that einstein was a communist. was he dumb? he wrote a book (phamphlet really) titled "why socialism", i recommend you read it. >Das Kapital are deeply misunderstoodhow? did you read it? i did twice, the first time was a decade ago and the other time was over covid lockdowns. yeah its a long trilogy but its comparable to the lord of the rings, something that people can comfortably read.
pic related
>>23332666Examples:Rothschild/Vatican lead inclusive capitalism project alone controls tens of trillions worth of assets. WEF - which represents the global elite - pushing "stakeholder capitalism".Noam Chomsky said "White male supremacy is a deep current in American History". He also advocated for voting for the blue team and called Drumpf the worst criminal in history. He's meant to be an anarcho-syndicalist, but he's a great example of leftists being sell outs. Woke thought leaders like Robin DiAngelo and Ibram X Kendi are low key anticapitalists too. But they consider the new thing - group egalitarianism within capitalism - to be more worth fighting for.Social democracy and wokeism which is absolutely borne out of leftist activism gradually progressing in most countries. America is not the whole world.No one is stopping people from becoming Marxists.Traditional leftist analysis said capital will always support the right. Now that's clearly not the case. Jan 6 protestors got hit hard by the law. Cops are also the enforcement arm of this left wing bullshit, despite personally leaning more right. They don't care.
>>23325967Resisting psychopaths who believe in collectivism is not a 'flinch', its basic self defence.
>>23326493America is not 'capitalist'.
>>23329904Corporations are anti-capitalistic entities created and given special treatment by the state.
>>23332694>Rothschild/Vatican lead inclusive capitalismi had to google this and read their mission statement but it doesnt seem like they are doing anything real. it keeps saying that capital needs to be fair and dynamic but i cant see what theyve done to achieve anything>WEF pushing "stakeholder capitalism"again its the same thing, no examples of things that have actually happened >noam chomskyfirst, hes not a marxist. second, that quote is true, its absolutely true that historically america was for white males (for example, they were the only ones that could vote for ~a century, they were the only ones that could own land, and they could also own non whites and (basically) owned women). the rest of that paragraph also means nothing. "leftists" are sellouts, its to be expected because their beliefs arent grounded in anything. the other two names dont really mean anything. i ctrl-f-ed for "marx" "socialism" and "communism" on their personal pages and their wikipedia pages with nothing found. >Social democracy and wokeism which is absolutely borne out of leftist activismyes, "leftist" activism. not marxist activism. infact engles wrote a book dismissing social democracy 150ish years ago, titled "on authority". its probably the best marxist book of its time. >America is not the whole worldtrue, im not a burger so i have first hand knowledge on the topic. america is the homeland of anticommunist activities though, and are constantly meddling in foreign affairs (example, egging on the ukrainian war, getting involved in the middle east for oil/the israel stuff, vietnam/korea/philippines, assassination/overthrowing of latin american heads of states)>No one is stopping people from becoming Marxistsmaybe technically true, but certainly not true in reality. marxists get killed in plenty of places globally, and are barely tolerated in most other places. while you are allowed to call yourself a marxist if you act on it and join an org youll certainly get some serious pushback for it. its like saying "no one is stopping you kill that person", maybe its true but youll have to deal with consequences.
>>23332694>Traditional leftist analysis said capital will always support the right. Now that's clearly not the casehow is it not the case? capital is on the right, thats where it makes the most money. if you mean that sometimes they will lean to the "left" as a burger sees it thats still pretty far right to the rest of the world>Jan 6 protestors got hit hard by the lawagain, if it were the blm guys doing it they would have been machine gunned, do you disagree with that? i checked official numbers, only a few hundred ever saw jail (apparently most only saw a few days though). i also checked the official numbers on the blm protests and of the "thousands" that were arrested 80ish % had dropped charges so its likely the actual jail time between the two events was similar. also, blm protesters were shot and killed for doing what they were doing, not really the case for the jan 6 guys. >Cops are also the enforcement arm of this left wing bullshit, despite personally leaning more rightso you think they are going to shoot and arrest their friends? or what? and what left wing bullshit, you didnt give an example. do you mean that police are enforcing mandatory gay quotas? >>23332747>Corporations are anti-capitalistichow can this be true? corporations are literally just capital >given special treatment by the statethis is true though, and communists want that to change
>>23332775Anon the police in my country literally entered a pub and stole some dolls because the government considered them racist. Police will blindly enforce the progressive bullishit pushed by the establishment without protest. >just capitalWhen not being used as a slur by leftists 'capitalist' describes a system without government interference in the economy, one where the rights of individuals (including property rights) are protected. >want this to changeThe majority of leftists support the same things being pushed by big business (censorship, mass migration and economic regulation being the big ones)
>>23332772I just don't understand why you guys must gaslight about this. Actually if you're outside the west I can understand. But I'm mainly talking about the West. China is run by leftists too of course, who have their own compromise with capital.Stakeholder capitalism was implemented in several countries.>In subsequent years, the stakeholder concept was adopted most prominently in the social democracies of Northern and Western Europe, including Sweden, Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, Belgium, and Germany.>It led there, among other effects, to a tripartite system of collective labor negotiations including company management, employees, and government. And it contributed to the welfare state in which companies and employees paid their fair share of taxes to fund public education, health care, and social security.Inclusive Capitalism members aim for many goals but mainly DEI, which you admit you care about as you think Noam Chomsky's scapegoating current proletarian white men is relevant and appropriate. And you say you're not American but you clearly look up to them as you care deeply about Jan 6, the abortion thing, and so on.Cops do things like arrest teenagers for singing nigga along with a rap song on instagram. Cops just care about their paycheck. Now that power is starting to lean left that's what they'll uphold.
>>23332827>police in my country literally entered a pub and stole some dollskek if you mean the white hart inn thats the funniest thing ive heard all week. they temporarily took some clearly obviously racist dolls (probably as evidence or something) and now you think the british government is communist. >'capitalist' describes a system without government interference in the economy> rights of individuals (including property rights) are protectedare you a moron? protected by who? who is going to protect the rights of the owners of the property? who is going to protect that property? are you advocating for some ancap hellhole? >leftist support big businessmaybe "leftists" support this but marxists dont, i have lost track of how many times ive noted that there is infact a difference between a libtard "leftist" a proper "old school" marxist. >>23332844again, what has stakeholder capitalism done? i couldnt find anything that theyve managed to do besides pool some money and pay some people to make a website and write a few statements and make a video. your quotes come without a source btw>DEI, which you admit you care abouti dont think i admitted it already but i think it shouldnt be something you "admit" to. forced diversity is obviously jut performative bullshit like all the other things youve tried to "gotcha" at me, but saying you dont like to include people or try be somewhat equitable is certainly something >you clearly look up to themright, i clearly look up to burgers. maybe in the same way i look up to sitcom characters, but not in any real, respectful or humble way. i mention america and things related because its always likely that the person im talking to knows about the country and whats going on there (either willingly or not). i could talk about peruvian politics if you would prefer.>Cops just care about their paychecktrue, so they will at least try put on a show of how they do what they are told. if they get a report and a chance to imprison someone theyll probably take it, and again marxism explains why. >power is starting to lean leftliterally not true, and you havent given any examples yet. maybe the "leftists" are being appeased but "old school" marxists arent. its leaning more liberal, not left
>>23332827i didnt mention the funniest part>'capitalist' describes a system without government interference in the economyso you mean its not true capitalism? has true capitalism ever been tried? just one less regulation and its all going to click together right?
>>23332861You're splitting hairs and playing no true Scotsman calling anyone who's not a Marxist Leninist dinosaur not left including leftists, then admitting you DO care about being "somewhat equitable", equity being a concept of the new left describing radical group egalitarianism. You're really not that different from them. Everyone who's not stuck in a 19th century dogma sees which way the wind's blowing. You brushed off my examples which were several western countries implementing the WEF agenda. The top corporations do not care about alienating conservatives at all even though they are like half the population.
>>23332871Not him, I'm the other guy. You Marxists also say this shit, which is why it's a meme to begin with. You're on the same level as libertarianism. That is, false.
>>23332861>temporarilySo? literally so what? The enforcers of the state entered private property and STOLE someones things because the corporate establishment disliked them, this deserves to be met with lethal force, dolls or not, peoples property should be safe from the hired thugs of the nonces in Parliament. >obviously racistIrrelevant, the police are supposed to exist to deal with actual crimes (such as theft) not enforce progressive nonsense.> and now you think the british government is communist.Dumb strawman.Actual Marxists are an irrelevant remnant, in the modern world leftism is cheering when the corporate establishment steps on normal people. We are aware of the difference, we just recognize it doesn't matter. The authoritarian retards in the progressive movement have replaced actual working class socialists (who tended to be socially conservative).
>>23329147Btw, the progenitor of half of the holocaust stories was the USSR. The myth is still alive and well but Communist Russia isn't. Is that a mark of ideological success or was it a lie that's run its course?
>>23332883>no true Scotsmani had to google this term, and im not playing that. theres a difference between them, just like theres a difference between american liberals and american conservatives. i could just as easily (and maybe more accurately) call your liberals the same as conservatives. when pushed you both believe in the same thing. >DO care about being "somewhat equitable"everyone should care about this though, and if you dont then its kinda a yikes. if libertarianism is "i just want to grill" communism is "everyone should have the ability to grill if they want". equity is a fairly core idea>brushed off my examples which were several western countries implementing the WEF agendabut did they change laws? did they assassinate anyone? what did they do? you didnt give any examples because they dont exist. and its to be expected that corps dont care about conservatives. theyre the cucks that dont know the extent of the cuckolding. they lick the boot until fox news says that the boot is rainbow and then they find a different boot (but still the same leather flavour). >>23332887no actually, we dont say that shit. ive never once in my life seen someone say that shit. its always morons spreading the meme while turning around and then becoming a hypocrite. true communism did exist and does exist and will likely exist for another few hundred years at least, examples being the soviet union, modern china, cuba, vietnam, laos, the dprk. >>23332890>So? literally so what? The enforcers of the state entered private property and STOLE someones thingsyeah exactly, so what. why do you care? if you want to stop it you should have voted harder or something or maybe stop being a cuck and do something about it>police are supposed to exist to deal with actual crimeclearly they did, and now the inn has been outed >Actual Marxists are an irrelevant remnantnot true, and its pretty obviously not true seeing as you are typing messages to them on a basket weaving forum. modern "leftism" is just as cucked as modern conservatism >authoritarian retards in the progressive movement have replaced actual working class socialistskek, im unironically going to print this out and post it somewhere on my wall, but it deserves no further comment>>23332897>the progenitor of half of the holocaust stories was the USSRand thats to be expected, it was the soviets that beat the nazis. im sure if it were any other country they would have documented half the stories instead
>>23332921>its kinda a yikesAnd you say you're different to the blue hairs.>soviet union, modern china, cuba, vietnam, laos, the dprk.All had wage labour, the law of value and so on. Try to understand your own theory.
>>23332921>Why do you care about the state pushing a hostile agenda on the people?I hope you're not so retarded you think we can vote our way out of this or that being 'elected' legitimises a government. Being racist is not an actual crime, the scum in Parliament do not have the moral authority to declare random things to be forbidden. Only violations of someone else's person or property should be crimes generally. Outed as what exactly? Everybody knows they've been victims of the arbitrary exercise of illegitimate state power yes.Its true, the Labour party is now the party of progressives (corporate drones) and foreigners, not a party for British working men.
>>23332928>Try to understand your own theoryas if youre the expert. wage labour is expected at the stage they were all at
>>23332943China has a worse Gini coefficient than USA
>>23332942>you think we can vote our way out of thisno i dont think that, its a joke about the concessions you hope to make. either keep dreaming or wake up and chase them (communists are notorious for preferring revolution over reform, theres even a good book on the topic called "reform or revolution)>violations of someone else's person or propertyah there it is, the sacred right of property. they lost their (literal) doll collection for all of a week and you care about that more than you care about the fact that 1 in 6 of your countries children are "food insecure" by the official count>Outed as what exactlyit was a joke, the inn was outed because they are no longer in(n). im not surprised you dont understand though because you seem to not understand much>the Labour party is now the party of progressives (corporate drones) and foreigners, not a party for British working menok so theres no party representing the common man? if only there was a political framework you could read and understand why this is and what you can likely do about it and what a better system would be. this is the most annoying part, you see people walking so very close to the line but then missing it and thinking something else, exactly what else i just cant understand. >>23332957>Gini coefficientthe first chart i saw said that burgers have this higher than china, but if you are so worried about chinas economic inequality i can tell you why its allowed to be that way. first a chinese billionaire is different to a burger billionaire. they both got their money by the same means, sure, but they have different amount of power when it comes to using it. chinese billionaires have a very hard time investing overseas (which is a massive point, its still chinese money), but burger billionaires can threaten "capital flight" (google it). chinese billionaires also still have laws they have to follow, they get executed at a higher rate than any other country, and possibly every other country combined. billionaires in burgerland? they can write their own laws. now the question of "why doesnt china just take their money?" is very easily answered if you were to actually read what deng xiaoping and xi jinping wrote, because both wrote a couple of really good books about the governance of china (thats the title of xis book btw). the answer is that china is playing the long game (looking at 2050, thats the projected year that they wont have billionaires basically)
>>23332970Lower phase communism is each according to their contribution. "Socialism [lower phase communism] by 2050" means they are not communist yet.
/// He polished the table until it gleamed /// The athletic leggings had breathable mesh insets along the sides for added comfort during workouts /// Why anyone buys music with such insipid lyrics is a mystery /// The stygian blackness of the cave /// Fact is, most processed foods lack a bevy of vitamins, minerals, and phytonutrients /// Among the many looming ecological disasters that terrify us today, one that only a handful of people have contemplated as sufficiently looming and terrifying is the loss of the bats in our belfry /// All the oil from the stricken tanker has now leaked into the sea /// The recent interest-rate rises have sparked new problems for small businesses /// Thousands of paratroopers could augment the offensive from the air /// We found ourselves in a position to reduce the price of petrol, and it would have been most injudicious not to have done so /// The car drew up at the door /// They're loath to identify themselves with a worldview that leaves so little room for nuance /// When regulatory capture occurs, the interests of firms or political groups are given priority or favor over the interests of the public /// The journey begins with one of the hominids exultantly hurling an animal bone into the air /// People shuffle past, giving us a wide berth /// Over £500 million was ring-fenced for improvements to the transport system /// The capillary action refers to the tendency of water to move up a narrow tube against the force of gravity /// Taxonomies lend themselves as natural starting points in explaining ontologies as they can be easily conceived as a sort of lightweight ontology /// Once the disease has run its course, it's not likely to return /// He has also succeeded in seamlessly weaving his subject's idiosyncratic way of expressing himself into a compelling literary narrative form /// The next step will be to reduce it from a sin to a peccadillo /// Wavy hair is also more likely to become frizzy than straight hair /// It's no mean feat keeping a massive entertainment show fresh and current with high ratings ///
>>23327970>He spends essentially the entire first chapter proving it.He disproves it thoughever
>>23323298You've to read Moral Sentiments by Smith too
>>23323665read the analytical marxists who do just that
The Black Book
>>23323298t. Actually has never read Adam Smith. Adam Smith would be mortified that he has been coopted by neoclassical economists. Smith did not believe that that the Market should be worshipped over everything else.
>>23336113If you mean the black book of communism saying 100 million dead its been debunked a dozen times
>>23329904Anti-corporate isn’t anti-capitalist. If it was anti-banking, then it could be claimed to be anti-capitalist, but not anti-corporate. At least from the basis of State and Public sector definition. Jefferson also promoted the seperation of Church and State and was Deist who disagreed with religious views even on Jesus; calling his own disciples a band of ‘exaggerators and liars’ of his divinity. He shared this views with other founders, who were Deists, and told Paine to withhold his theological writings to not outrage the Christians of the colonies. That doesn’t mean he was anti-Christian. He wrote the First Amendment to show this.
What do you guys think about Péguy?
>>23332234>Good luck finding a book that can match 50 years of living standardsStart with The Republic.
>>23336123He would like it respected like money, but not hold all faculty economically like Neo-Liberal Capitalism does with Markets with the ‘let the Market take care if it’ belief.
I inherited property and just live off the rent so I think capitalism is pretty based. Just don't be born into the slave caste lol
