I'm doing it in the most straightforward way possible - going by prices of equipment and military budgets. I've already priced all the tanks still used, all ships, subs, most jets and now I need helis, arty, and probably gonna add missiles, drones, and maybe some other shit too.I don't know much about mil stuff so I'm gonna need some help from /k/autists here. Pricing is the most difficult, since sometimes you only get one arms deal for a model, but due to some very specific modification its price is atmospherically high, and I can't tell if I should use the number or not. So I need someone to check my shit out, as well as advice in general.
>>61482052Russian military and "secret" budget ballooned in 2024 to 200 billions, not 84
>>61482121Pic is just illustrative, I'm not going by those numbers. Also, sauce?I would assume same applies to North Korea, whose defence budget has been estimated at only 2-4 billions. I suspect in reality they put a lot more there.
>>61482121Most of that was embezzled, which is why you can't judge a military by its reported budget.
>>61482168>Also, sauce?Aproved Russian budget for 2024, 10.6 trillion roubles or ~6% GDP for defense spending and further 11.1 trillion roubles or ~6% GDP spending on secret spending
>>61482121The pic is from years ago.
>>61482052I'm so fucking annoyed when I see any statistics pics without a fucking date, just add it in a legend how hard can it be you lazy fuckers!
>>61482189Wait lol, their budget actually has a section for "secret" spending?>>61482203Yeah. It's from 2015. I just grabbed it off google. For comparisons of defence budgets wiki is usually a good enough source.
>>61482052This is a good example of how statistics and paper capabilities are bullshit. How you could rate Russia as 200 + after the war in Ukraine is complete nonsense and probably a troll. The "second" army of the world which couldn't even take its neighbour which is the poorest country in Europe, has 1/3 of its population and 10% of its military budget. A nation that cant obtain sea supremacy to a country without a navy and Air superiority against a country with a token air force. I'm pretty sure if the UK decided to attack the RoI or France attacked Belgium those wars would be over in a week.
>>61482207>Wait lol, their budget actually has a section for "secret" spending?"Undisclosed"/"unspecified" section, it makes 1/3rd of Russian budget in 2024, and from what we know it mostly goes on state security
>>61482208You must account for two things:1) it wasn't a proper invasion, but a march, which is what the Russians thought was all it'd take2) now it's a purposefully limited war. NATO is reticent of sending in the heavy stuff, and Russia is reticent in using its full armaments. Half is caution, and half is awareness of the inability of waging a total war (I suspect this applies to NATO as well).I know the "gloves come off" and "hands tied" is a meme but it's mostly true. Just not for the reasons vatniks probably think it is (some civility?).
>>61482246>and Russia is reticent in using its full armamentsWhat Russia is not using?
>>61482246>1) it wasn't a proper invasion, but a march, which is what the Russians thought was all it'd takeAre you joking ? There was a 40 mile convoy of death comprising of some of the primer elements of the Russian armed forces, they dropped a brigades worth of para's on various air fields and they got mince. Look I know your a shill but but Christ almighty you cant ACTUALY think anyone would believe that at this point after 2 years and 5000 vids of Russian meat waves getting annihilated. You have to be much smarter with your Vranyo......>2) now it's a purposefully limited war. NATO is reticent of sending in the heavy stuff, and Russia is reticent in using its full armaments. Half is caution, and half is awareness of the inability of waging a total war (I suspect this applies to NATO as well). My good vatnik, Russia has just spent 350 AFV's taking a town of 120 people that was abandoned 2 years ago. Russian isn't pulling it punches its military like its culture, economy and future is UTTER garbage.
>>61482277The scarcest of resources>brains
>>61482246all I hear are excuses why they are bad and not living with the facts, that they are bad1) if russia had good schools, good universities, not a culture of liars, competent people that dont flee to the west etc. the would not have marched into ukraine because they would have had a proper evalutation of the situation2) in which way is it a limited war? russia is using EVERYTHING in their arsenal, even the super new shit they have like kinzals and super old shit like t55sin a war it doesnt matter why you lose, it matters if you lose
>>61482052Shouldn't it take at least some level of per purchase parity when comparing budget?
>>61482220>state securityyeah, securing lined pockets for heads of state
>>61482311Lining up Kadyrov pockets directly improves state security, yes
>>61482052Where's Finland? I mean, we won the Winter War and WWII against the Soviets and nazis.
>>61482052>FR 62>UK 60>GER 46When is that image from? Those numbers are wierd.
>>61482246>>61482277>>61482290>>61482300The biggest thing they're not using is manpower. Have you forgotten how ridiculously small the initial force was? 180k vs a 40mil nation? And even after all these mobilizations Ukrainians still outnumber Russians, because Putin knows that he can't afford a full mobilization politically. Russian people must feel secure.Russians haven't been able to use airpower either, because of a) NATO AA, and b) it knows it can't rebuild its air forces due to sanctions, so it must be sparing. Same for missiles.Basically like I said, it all comes down to knowing that they can't wage a total war, so they try to use everything very sparingly and also to avoid triggering too much NATO support.>1) if russia had good schools, good universities, not a culture of liars, competent people that dont flee to the west etc. the would not have marched into ukraine because they would have had a proper evalutation of the situationIt's more to do with the authoritarian system and not a lack of competence per se. People who suck Putin's dick by telling him fairytales get put ahead of those who are realists. Same happened in the beginning of the Winter War. Then, after failure, the realists got in and Russia made a breakthrough. Not saying this is predictive of their success in Ukraine, but we've already seen realists come in.
>>61482429LolLmao
>>61482429Yes, the initial numbers were low but that doesn't mean they aren't fully committed currently.Fielding a force of 300 000 men in a state that is bordering you means that there is well over a million people actively participating in this war, from espionage and intelligence agencies to logistics monkeys and everything in-between that doesn't get "counted" on these wikipedia battle boxes.Russia is fully committed, just look at their car industry that is identifying with "was/were" pronouns.
>>61482726>Fielding a force of 300 000 ... means that there is well over a million people actively participating in this war,But all that applies to Ukraine's 700 000 too. And if we accounted in international forces at play...The Russian commitment is restricted by its very specific circumstances, being under sanctions and fearful of a future bigger conflict for which they have to retain some capability. So it's not really productive to treat the Ukrainian war as a full representation of their military capability. The same as we wouldn't treat Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan as full measures of the US military strength. Since we aren't dealing here with a total war, we cannot separate the military from the political. That's just Clausewitz.
>>61482246>It totally wasn't an invasionVDV seizure, and heavy elements rushing to Kiev disagree. Don't worry tho you can look in the fields around Kiev for the evidence. The TDF buried them there after assaulting their armor and killing the VDV
>>61482820This is total war for Russia. This is what total war for Russia looks like today. Multiple mobilizations, entire inventories being used and lost, and the continued expenditure of all of theirs munitions when they can manage it. Total war must account for sanctions and escalation. The existence of either does not stop from total war. Welcome to the modern era, even the countries that have bled the most historically can't do like they did in the past. Thats what happens when the average IQ increases and people can see the horrors of war everyday while taking a shit straight from soldiers at the front
>>61482850Don't redefine total war just because it's no longer possible. Neither Ukraine nor Russia is in a total war. People's lives are affected minimally by this war - something both coutries (but especially Russia) are very cognizant of, and wanting to retain. They know that as soon as actual normal people on the streets feel like they're about to become minced meat in a ditch, the war cause is done for. Neither side can even dream mobilizing the energy of WW1 or 2.But you also left out demographic aging and the fact that we're dealing with statistically single sons - much more difficult to turn those into cannonfodder. Pic rel.
>>61482820>But all that applies to Ukraine's 700 000 too. And if we accounted in international forces at play...But we are talking about Russia.>The Russian commitment is restricted by its very specific circumstances, being under sanctions and fearful of a future bigger conflict for which they have to retain some capability.They have shown no such restraint however. Their aviation is not crossing the Ukrainian border because they are afraid of losing their airframes which are basically lostech these days and they found perceived success with stand-off long-range dumb munitions.They are throwing IFVs and MBTs at the border as fast as they can be refurbished or manufactured, no tanks are sent to East or South districts anymore. They are also losing and and all reputation they have as a weapons manufacturer. Did you know they lost another S-400 radar just today, to artillery?>So it's not really productive to treat the Ukrainian war as a full representation of their military capability.Unfortunately, it pretty much is.In a total non-nuclear war, they would deploy nothing except more meat, nothing would change.
>>61482923>But we are talking about Russia.The point is that Ukraine is more committed than Russia. That's what all the numbers show.>They are throwing IFVs and MBTs at the border as fast as they can be refurbished or manufactured,Well that would point exactly that they're not expending more than they can afford, keeping pace with turning rusty shit into usable assets. But I don't even think we have the numbers on how much they're expending, refurbishing, have in reserve (refurbished), and have left rusting in fields waiting to be refurbished.Also posting the better version of the image, with more explanation. Basically - blue countries are too demographically weak to engage in a full war.
>>61482923>they would deploy nothing except more meat, nothing would change.It'd make a massive difference tho. Ukraine has trouble with manpower and had to extend conscription indefinitely and is preparing for more mobilization and tougher laws for dodgers. Russia is also seeking another mobilization. Both countries are very restricted here, and we're not even close to levels seen in actual total wars.
>>61482983>The point is that Ukraine is more committed than Russia. That's what all the numbers show.Okay?>Well that would point exactly that they're not expending more than they can affordWhat is this supposed to mean?They are expending everything they have.Nothing in Russia is being manufactured and sent to homeland security forces and non-Zapad districts.>But I don't even think we have the numbers on how much they're expending, refurbishing, have in reserve (refurbished), and have left rusting in fields waiting to be refurbished.We have satellite imagery monitoring both from civilian individuals/organisations and government contractors/agencies.Current number of visually confirmed losses of IFVs/artillery/MBTs/SPGs and other indicate that Russia is fighting with almost exclusively refurbished equipment. >Also posting the better version of the imageBut why?What do you think this shows?Western militaries protect their soldiers to much higher degree than any other states in history.Russia lost more people in 3 years than USA lost in half a century of world policing. Or not to mention the extremes like Operation Serval where the French got a K/D of 120.It is just silly to count heads like it's 20BC.
>>61482121>200 billionHow does this shit work for a country like Russia? Every time I see pictures of Moscow or St Peterburg, they look like modern European cities and as far as I can tell from the russian faggots I see online, they seem pretty happy with their standard of living.How does the Russian gov manage to have such an insane proportion of its budget allocated to the military, while providing other services. Meanwhile most other countries struggle to do 1 or 2 percent of their budget for the military.
>>61483282Maybe don't exclusively look at their 2 largest cities with a confirmation bias?
>>61483282>Meanwhile most other countries struggle to do 1 or 2 percent of their budget for the military.Because unlike Russia they don't want all but their two biggest cities to look like Detroit anon.
>>61483282Firstly, you have to understand that Russia is essentially the biggest city-state in history, as only Moscow and St. Petersburg matter in any capacity. The rest are simply dependent territories and tributary states (like Chechnya) who exist to suck resources out of, so they don't have quite the same care and attention paid to them. Secondly, Russians are all used to living in complete misery, so they're content with circumstances that the west wouldn't settle for. Ikea furniture is a luxury to these people, one that requires a loan to even acquire. As such, they have a different view as what constitutes an acceptable standard of living then most non-russians would.
>>61482307That's a good point. But that's a question for analysis, and that's the easy part. The hard part is finding all the prices.DOES ANYONE HERE KNOW ANY GOOD PLACES TO SEARCH FOR PRICES OF SHIT? Arms deals, archives, all that stuff.
>>614820521. USA2. USA circa 19903. USA circa 19804. USA circa 19705. USA circa 19606. USA circa 19507. China (disputed)8. USA circa 19409. Who gives a shit
>>61482052Fundamentally 1 usa2 china3 russia 4 Ukraine
