so socialism and communism are anti western and destructive much like islam is because it goes against its values (imperialism and capitalism) hence their adherents being self loathing unlike their eastern comrades? am i correct in my assumption? why does it attract mostly young people?
>>16548787its destructive because it killed 100million people. don't overcomplicate things.
>>16548795So did Capitalism, they just give them different names like "colonialism" and "imperialism" to make it sound better.
>>16548787they're not at allcommunism brought the ussr from a war wracked shithole to a nuclear and spacefaring power within 40 years
>>16549138Tsarist Russia would have turned Russia into a superpower while communism destroyed their society.Whatifalhist did a video on this
>>16549151>Tsarist Russia would have turned Russia into a superpower yeah bullshit, Russia was the least developed country in WW1 and I'm including the Ottoman EmpireCommunism reinforced Russian society
>>16549138Why does that matter when Japan, Finland and plenty of other countries ended up being more advanced than Russia even without a communist revolution in the same time period...Russia was still a shit hole even after communism, and was still behind any comparable western countryBeing a Sovietboo makes no sense when there were plenty of better countries at the time and they weren't even hard to find
>>16549151>Whatifalthis made a videoThere is some serious dysgenic brainrot going on in the online right.
>>16549258because we're talking about communism here dudeJapan was given an immense amount of money from the Marshall Plan and had a vast colonial empire before that, Finland was probably the most developed part of the Russian Empire before that, you're literally comparing apples and oranges here
>>16548787Youth are always trying to rebel against the status quo. And since the status quo currently is Western liberal democracy and free market capitalism the opposite is socialism.
How can a western philosophy be antiwestern? Christianity has been crumbling for five centuries. Which is to say it is clearly on the way out. The forces replacing it may be called "The West." Among them are atheism, Freudianism, Marxism, capitalism, industrial production etc. And they all represent aberrations from Christianity. The West is falling!Falling falling falling DOWN Can ya see it? Can ya smell it in the air??
>>16549274er, not the Marshall Plan but American anticommunist aid in general
>>16549271Communism wasn't necessary Russia's economic development, and even the source tankies cite the most to "prove" that i.g. Farm to Factory own author says communism wasn't necessary and a Bukharin style NEP would have done better.So, yeah, if anything rightoids are actually right on this.Its retards like you with brain-rot trying to be smug, but not having a single clue on what you are talking about.And this is largely because you are a dumb kid living in the suburbs of California and have never stepped foot in Russia.
>>16549274>Japan was given an immense amount of money from the Marshall PlanYou've just proved you're mentally retarded and can't read. The Meiji Restoration was before the Marshall Plan, and even the Marshall Plan argument is weak because Stalin himself rejected it. So, you can't really complain about the Marshall Plan when Stalin was the one who prevented it from going to the Warsaw Pact.To make things simpler, for a retard like you, Japan and Finland were able to industrialize and achieve high living standards without a communism revolution.And this was before even any Marshal Plan aid.Ignoring that, Russia had the largest reserves of natural resources in Europe, but they still struggled to beat Japan, which has to import everything because they don't have any natural resources?Your argument is bad no matter how you make it.
>>16548787>socialism and communism>anti imperialistLol. Lmao even. Not as long as their goal is to spread their ideology further; conquest (and attempts at conquests) of new territories have been a hallmark of all states that called themselves communist or socialist. The most powerful ones basically just adopted the imperialist goals of their prior regimes.
>>16549289Why would you humiliate yourself and torpedo your entire argument by citing whaifalthis though?
>>16549303Japan was already the most developed country in Asia by the time of WW2. Finland was probably the most developed part of the Russian Empire, the Russian Empire which LOST against Japan in the Russo-Japanese War. Even then Japanese living standards weren't all that high if we're comparing Japan and Finland.The USSR was more industrialized than Japan at the conclusion of the Pacific War.
>>16549317NtADo you get checks for posting this stuff or something?
>>16549310Imperialism is a particular economic system and not just when you lmao map paint.
>>16549317>Japan was already the most developed country in Asia by the time of WW2.You are not understanding the argument. Japan was able to develop without communism, retard. So was Finland.So, it was possible for Russia to do the same without communism.Russia, even before the Russian Revolution, had an automobile factory, abolished serfdom, and one of the biggest railroad networks in Europe.Communism was never necessary for Russia's economic development - it was already happening, and there are plenty of examples of faster development happening without the problems we saw with communism in Russia.That's why Japan and Finland exist today and the USSR does not.>>16549312Whatifs? Its generally understood the USSR was a total economic failure which is why it no longer exists, and why countries like China, Vietnam and Cuba have largely moved away from its policies to embrace foreign investment and markets.Leftypol troons struggle with logic, like this, because you're mentally handicapped to the extent you can't even hold a fucking job,
>>16549322>it's not exploitation of the conquered people as long as we tell them it's for their own benefitYou are an imperialist with a red hat on
>>16549322>Imperialism is a particular economic system and not just when you lmao map paint.>map paintLmao, you're fucking ESL - you don't even know basic English, but you want to tell us what imperialism is?LMAOOOOOOOOOO
>>16549337>Cites whatifalthis>Pretends to not know the dude two posts laterMost intellectually honest right winger. Does constant lying not bother you, or are you a pathological liar?
>>16549317>The USSR was more industrialized than Japan at the conclusion of the Pacific War.Because it got Lend Lease aid and wasn't nuked, retardJesus Christ you're a dumb tranny
>>16549344>WhatifsThe USSR has been gone longer than you've been alive. You lost.No amount of coping will change that.
>>16549341Tell us what you think imperialism is.
>>16549337Yeah, I'm not understanding the argument since Russia was not Japan.
>>16549287The USSR got plenty of US aid from its inception.When the USSR had a famine in 1920, Hoover sent food aid and funds.When the USSR needed factories in the 1930s, American companies like Siemens, Ford and Koch build their oil refineries, cars, and buildings. The fucking Tennessee Valley Authority helped the Soviets build their hydro-electric plants.And without Lend Lease, the Soviets would have lost in the 1940s.The idea that USSR did not receive any help from the West is pure lies and propaganda. Even that argument its bad and refutes itself.You can't criticize the Marshall Plan on any merit because the USSR rejected it and it got US help even before that. And such help made it possible for the USSR to even survive or have basic infrastructure.Every single argument you have is bad.
>>16549350>Mfw two 10kt nukes is enough to destroy the entire industrial capacity of a nationWhy are right wingers so universally stupid?
>>16549359You're not understanding argument because you're obtuse.Russia had more natural resources than Japan. Russia had a larger population than Japan. Russia had the resources, and people, to surpass Japan and Finland... yet could not.
>>16549365>When the USSR had a famine in 1920, Hoover sent food aid and funds.Private aid. This wasn't from the US govt.>When the USSR needed factories in the 1930s, American companies like Siemens, Ford and Koch build their oil refineries, cars, and buildings. In exchange for hard currency.>And without Lend Lease, the Soviets would have lost in the 1940s.Maybe, maybe not; the Germans were viciously outstretched and extremely harried by Soviet paristans. The Lend Lease aid only occurred AFTER the USA had officially joined the war, too.>You can't criticize the Marshall Plan on any merit because the USSR rejected it and it got US help even before that.I wasn't criticizing it. The USSR didn't receive Marshall Plan money so it's not germane to the conversation. I don't think Finland did either, but Japan did get significant anticommunist aid.
>>16549368>He thinks Japan was only suffering from nukesLmao, you don't know anything about WW2 holy shit.
>>16549373So why mention the nukes and not say Japan was bombed in general? Sounds like you're the one who's just learning this.
>>16549357State acquisition of territory followed by economic exploitation and/or oppression of the populace of said territory. That includes installing puppet or proxy regimes.
>>16549371>Private aid. This wasn't from the US govt.Which doesn't matter? The distinction doesn't change the fact the USSR got aid. And no, the Hoover Administration sending the USSR aid is government aid, not private aid.>In exchange for hard currency.Okay? Doesn't change the fact Russians did get American aid. Most Lend Lease aid the Russians got was even forgiven.>The USSR didn't receive Marshall Plan money Because Stalin specifically rejected it when the US offered them aid.The Marshal Plan argument doesn't work no matter how you cut it because using it means you have to acknowledge the USSR did get a shit of American aid, and you have to acknowledge the fact the Soviets rejected the aid when the US offered it to them.
>>16549380What would imply, by that statement, that only nukes were used to hurt Japan, you fucking moron?Take some more ESL lessons; maybe you'll see why that isn't the case.
>>16549390The Hoover Administration didn't send aid. The organization Hoover was head of as a PRIVATE CITIZEN before becoming President did. That's a different matter.>Doesn't change the fact Russians did get American aid.OK, if I pay you for goods and services it's not "aid." Mr Ford did not do his shit for free.>Because Stalin specifically rejected it when the US offered them aid.Yes, he did. He rejected it because he didn't need it. Therefore, it is not germane to a conversation about the USSR. It is however germane to something about postwar Germany, France, or Greece.
>>16549342>He doesn't know what map painting games areGo back
>>16549117The only difference being that colonialism and imperialism helped the poor continents, unlike goymmunism
>>16549381>economic exploitation and/or oppression of the populaceSo the Soviet Union wasn't imperialist.
>16549396Senor sanchez if you just say 'Japan was nuked' it implies that the only reason for Japan's economic woes is the nuclear bombardment. I think recent immigrants like you who joined the army can get free language lessons. Maybe you'll learn to write English.
>>16549423>what is central asia>what is eastern europeInb4 "environmental disasters, gulags and totalitarian governments aren't actually oppressive sweaty!"
>>16549409NTA but map painting games are reddit.
>>16549449Also forgot to include the "ehrm that achually never happened the USSR said so" cope
>>16549449>Mfw Stalin controls the weather and can cause earthquakesI had no idea Zeus had become the leader of the CPSU.
All you need to know is that it took until 1969 (the same year the US landed on the moon) for the USSR to build their first toilet paper factory.
>>16549466I'd point to the Aral sea and the soviet irrigation projects that destroyed it and the economic prospects of the entire region with it, but the lake barely exists any more.
>16549475>Mfw Stalin can not only control lightning and earthquakes, but he can also mind control Central Asian leaders in 1996 after the fall of the Soviet Union
>>16549489The irrigation project started in the 30s, the lake split into two parts in 1987.>It's not our fault at all, we just started it
>16549517So why didn't the magic of capitalism reverse the trend?
>>16549526>WhataboutismI accept your concession.
>16549533>Stalin's terraforming spell did this, it wasn't inevitable>The bourgeise uhm just didn't stop it they just didn't okay
>communists fuck up so badly not even capitalists can clean up their messThis speaks volumes.
>>16549400>The Hoover Administration didn't send aid. The organization Hoover was head of as a PRIVATE CITIZEN before becoming President did. That's a different matter.No, you retard, the American Relief Administration was created by an act of Congress. You're wrong, and even the distinction doesn't matter. Aid is aid.>OK, if I pay you for goods and services it's not "aid." Mr Ford did not do his shit for free.Aid doesn't have to be free for it to be aid, you fucking retard. Lend Lease was aid because it helped but it wasn't free either, dumbass. >Yes, he did. He rejected it because he didn't need itBut he did need it, that's why the Soviet Union made their own Marshal Plan, and you can't use it as an argument against Japan or Finland (which did not receive the aid under Soviet orders and still ended up better off than the USSR) because it was a decision made by the communists themselves.You are seriously are stupidest fucking poster on /his/.
>>16550999Nta but you'll get further with less vitriol and insult. Nobody reads anything by someone calling them a dumbass with close attention and interest.
>>16550999>ARA ended its operations outside Russia in 1922; it operated in Russia until 1923.So, arguably, while the Russian Civil War was still going on.>Aid doesn't have to be free for it to be aid, you fucking retard. That's literally what aid is. Ford wasn't giving "aid" to the USSR, he was being paid for it.>that's why the Soviet Union made their own Marshal PlanStalin didn't need it. The Warsaw Pact was also after the conclusion of WW2.Japan received buttloads of aid, Finland didn't.In the specific case of Finnish history Finland was one of the most industrialized parts of the former Russian Empire; it wasn't shithole Siberia full of toothless babushkas and people in grinding poverty thanks to the capitalist factory workers who were treating their factory workers like the Russian noblemen once treated their serfs.Japan, also, was more industrialized than the former Russian Empire in 1905 and beat the Russkies soundly.
>>16549418The -stans were uplifted to a civilized state under communism
>>16549337>Communism was never necessary for Russia's economic development - it was already happeningThe problem is that communists did take power there and no counterfactual history of whether it was "necessary" or not can account for the fact that it still happened, whether you think they were right or wrong. There has to be some explanation for it. Before you get triggered btw, I even agree with you. There were massive factories in Tsarist Russia (the Putilov steel works in Petrograd was the largest in the world!!!) albeit situated alongside some pretty feudal stuff too, like a more backward country where popular democracy simply didn't exist adopting parts of more advanced countries (like railroads and modern industries) leading to a juxtaposition of very old and new in the same place. But what I'll offer is this: the particular conditions of class struggle that made the October Revolution possible were the result of being right on the corner of a major economic takeoff where there was no democracy, a weak bourgeoisie, and a growing and militant industrial working class in those factories that you're so proud of. And since the bourgeoisie was so weak, it naturally fell to the urban working class to make the inevitable revolution which was to come with Russia's entrance into the modern world. And guess what: that actually happened. This is what Trotsky's theories were cooking with -- he called it "combined and uneven development." Trotsky was on to something big here.
>>16549337>Japan was able to develop without communism, retard. So was Finland.That's also true. But this might sound like a dodge: the conditions were different. Really, where I will disagree with a lot of communists is thinking Marxism-Leninism is universally applicable as opposed to something that emerged in particular countries with certain hard-ass conditions that helped produce and make that ideology take off when others did not. (I think this is a rather Marxist viewpoint but that's neither here nor there.) In those places. Not elsewhere. Therefore, it'd be madness to think that the U.S. really could've gone communist in the 20th century unless it's some fictional alt-history scenario (which can be fun, but that's all it is). In Russia, it was Marxism-Leninism that was just specially adapted to its environment while liberal democracy was not. Russia, China, Vietnam. A few other places here and there.It's also probably not a coincidence, if you think about it, that fascism took off in Germany, Italy and sort-of in Japan (somewhat different but they were in the Axis) as middling powers in the world cockblocked from empires... as opposed to imploded but rapidly industrialized feudal empires like Russia and China like it's Arcanum. Yugoslavia which emerged from the shattered remains of the Austro-Hungarian Empire also more or less successfully had communists come to power there on their own terms.BTW, Japan also developed even more after WWII with a considerable amount of reform of political and economic institutions by MacArthur who alarmed his right-wing fanboys back in the U.S. because they reminded people of the kinds of reforms practiced in Republican Spain. You know why he did this? Well, one reason is because he wanted to cut off the source of the source of the Japanese Communist Party's appeal by adopting big chunks of their program. LMAO.
