I think nobody talks about how most Christians in history never really expected us to last up into 2024. The people in the 300s/400s thought that the world would end fairly soon. They also thought this in the 1500s/1600s and 1200s. If you put a lot of stock in the Bible and these traditional figures anyway, it would be rather demoralizing from a Christian perspective. Martin Luther, John Chrysostom, Augustine, and obviously the earliest Christians never expected the world to drag on into 2024, in this hell we live in. This would by necessity then encourage "heretical" or non-Christian sentiment.
>>16547966The last started in 1914
>>16547966Every generation wants to be special so any bad thing that happens is seen as an end times sign.But the world will keep going until the number of the elect is full.
>>16547966The way I see it, Jesus said to preach to everyone, and not every group has been preached to. With that in mind, it would be weird if he showed up sooner. Barely any proselytization can happen in only a few decades.
>>16548004This seems more like a cope than anything.
>>16547966it was talked about a bit during the change of the millemium (overshadowed by y2k computer panic), but not as much as during the change of millenium before. christianity started as a jewish doomsday cult, but it evolved quite a bit. the most likely interpretations of 666 in revelations are pointing to Nero or Hadrian who, as you might have noticed, no longer run the world. At this point, christian theology had literally thousands of years to work on this issue and the solution is: could be any time, just lead a good life because even if the world does not end, you might die.
The thing is a myriad of things are supposed to happen that lead to the end of the world in Revelation and they’re things like famine, war, disease these things actually would result in the world ending
>>16547966I think there's an even bigger elephant in the room. In developed countries, the low IQs/low education individuals believe that Jesus is coming very soon, signs are all there, two more weeks etc. On the other hand, their mid to high IQ peers generally don't believe he is coming back at all. Sure, they'll say Jesus will come back if you discuss theology, but in any other context, they will tell you that mankind will destroy itself with nukes and pollutants or else overcome muh great filter and become immortal space faring ayy lmaos. It's a clear case of doublethink.
>>16547966>most Christians in history never really expected us to last up into 2024.Source?>The people in the 300s/400s thought that the world would end fairly soon.Source?>They also thought this in the 1500s/1600s and 1200s. Source?>If you put a lot of stock in the Bible and these traditional figures anyway, it would be rather demoralizing from a Christian perspective. Only if you don't actually read the Bible and don't know that Jesus specifically said that no one could know when the end would come:>“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.Matthew 24:26-29>Martin Luther, John Chrysostom, Augustine, and obviously the earliest Christians never expected the world to drag on into 2024, in this hell we live in. They all read the Bible profusely, so they knew none of them could know the time of the end. And believe me, the situation we are right know is heaven compared to the ACTUAL hell that the first Christians had to go trhough.>This would by necessity then encourage "heretical" or non-Christian sentiment.This only because individual Christians insist on not listening to what Christ said and make a fool of themselves in the eyes of non-Christians with failed after failed prophesy, and an embarrasement to their fellow Christians.
>>16548014Jesus specifically said that the end would not come until the Gospel had been preached to the whole world:>And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.Matthew 24:14
>>16548819Hey buddy you wanna finish reading matthew 24 and explain how you square that with "this generation shall see these things pass"
>>16548833>Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.Matthew 24:34The "this" in this verse refers to the future generation which will see the signs of the end. Jesus is not referring to His own generation, but a future one. Your mistake is that you're reading "this generation" as "my generation" rather than "that generation".
>>16548853If you insist on being an illiterate retard I have nothing more to say to you. But please, don't let me stop you from actually giving any fucking support to you claim that he's talking about some nebulous generation - several thousand years in the future, which he doesn't specify despite being God and therefore omnipotent - and not the people before him which he was talking about for the entire fucking rest of the passage
>>16547966>This would by necessity then encourage "heretical" or non-Christian sentiment.The christians believe that the apocalypse will come only after christians have been reduced to a small ardent minority. This hasnt happened yet, not im the 300s or the 1600s, but it might happen in the 2000's. And if it does, then your argument will have contributed to it.
>>16548853The way in which Christians interpret passages that you would never choose to interpret that way if you were reading the book is insane.
>>16548004Jesus said he was only sent to preach to Jews. The idea of spreading the gospel to gentiles only came a while after his death. Even then, missionaries probably thought their mission was mostly completed by spreading their message through the major cities of the Roman Empire. People didn't grasp how big the world really was.
>>16548870>This hasnt happened yet, not im the 300s or the 1600sReally? What about the 0000s, y'know, the time when it was all written and in which jesus says shit'll go down and the many headed beast from the sea will emerge?
>>16548863>But please, don't let me stop you from actually giving any fucking support to you claim that he's talking about some nebulous generation We know that this is the correct reading because of the rest of what He says in Matthew 24. He set the condition that the end would not come until the gospel had been preached to all the nations.>And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.Something that was obviously impossible during the lifetime of His generation.He also tells us that even He doesn't know the day or the hour.>“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. So it wouldn't make sense for Him to set a time and then later say that no one knows the time.>and not the people before him which he was talking about for the entire fucking rest of the passageThe reason for warning them about all these things was because, as He Himself says, doesn't know when it will happen, so it might happen within their lifetimes, so He commands them to be watchful and be ready.>Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.Matthew 25:13>>16548878My reading of the text only requires you to change the apparent meaning of a single word. Is that really that much of a stertch to you?
>>16548882>Jesus said he was only sent to preach to Jews. After His resurrection He commanded His apostles >The idea of spreading the gospel to gentiles only came a while after his death. Stop imposing your secular understanding of the Bible onto us. We are not like you, we believe in the Bible, and we believe in the words that Christ said on it. We believe Christ commanded the gentiles to be converted at the time of His ascention.>Even then, missionaries probably thought their mission was mostly completed by spreading their message through the major cities of the Roman Empire.St. Paul preached even to Arabs, and St. Thomas went as far as India.>People didn't grasp how big the world really was.We know that the Romans knew of people as far as China.
>>16548899>Something that was obviously impossible during the lifetime of His generation.Aha! Got you, retard, you're applying your funny double standards again. How is it impossible to preach to all nations but not impossible to return from the dead, turn water to wine, heal the sick with a touch, or do literally anything in revelations? Furthermore - the Christian word reached every single nation on earth a century or more ago, so you have no excuse either - the generation that lived when the last ignorant country learned the good word are dead and gone, and the sky hasn't literally fallen as he said it would.Your reading of the text "merely" requires you to know better than Jesus Christ himself.
>>16547966>old people thought (x) therefore it must be true!appeal to history is idiotic in this case. we're smarter now than they ever were, if anything, christianity should see a resurgence due to better understanding of it
>>16548863>ad hominem out the assgood work, faggot.
>>16548931How is it impossible to preach to all nations but not impossible to return from the dead, turn water to wine, heal the sick with a touch, or do literally anything in revelations?It was impossible for them. Raising the dead, turning the water into wine, healing by touching and everything that we see in Revelation is done by the power of God. But God obviously didn't take the Apostles and sent them flying through the air spreading the Gospel like they were Santa Claus giving gifts around the world on Christmas eve.>the Christian word reached every single nation on earth a century or more ago,Did it reach the Amazon? Did it reach the Aztec? Did it reach China? Did it reach Japan? Did it reach Hawaii? You're being very silly now.>so you have no excuse either - the generation that lived when the last ignorant country learned the good word are dead and gone, and the sky hasn't literally fallen as he said it would.See point above.
>>16548955>Did it reach the Amazon? Did it reach the Aztec? Did it reach China? Did it reach Japan? Did it reach Hawaii? You're being very silly now.Yes? Do you not know when 100 years ago was? The telegram was widespread by the 19th century, let alone the 20th, and Christian missionaries have gone anywhere and everywhere.
>>16548972Oh I misread your reply.No it hasn't, even today there are peoples whom the gospel hasn't reached.
>>16548976Really? Would you like to name them?
>>16548982There are a number of uncontacted tribes, you can look them up.
>>16549006Nonono, we're talking about nations. But if you think the uncontacted tribes are the only thing stopping the ascension of the righteous - get the fuck off 4chan, sell all your belongings, and do anything up to and including die attempting to bring the word to them, as God commands. You're not going to say that you're more important than that, are you?
>>16549029>Nonono, we're talking about nations.The term "nation" is just a word for peoples, it doesn't necessarily have to mean "nation-state".>But if you think the uncontacted tribes are the only thing stopping the ascension of the righteous - get the fuck off 4chan, sell all your belongings, and do anything up to and including die attempting to bring the word to them, as God commands. You're not going to say that you're more important than that, are you?It's forbidden under the law to contact a lot of these tribes.
>>16549029>get the fuck off 4chan, sell all your belongings, and do anything up to and including die attempting to bring the word to them, as God commands.Also I'm Roman Catholic, I'm not allowed to go and proselytize on my own, that is the job of priests who go on missions.
>>16549029t. watches porn and plays video games and wonders why he's miserable.
>>16549047The law of man overrules the law of God? That's not what the book tells you.
>>16549083>That's not what the book tells you.Yes it does:>Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience. For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.Romans 13:1-7
>>16547966>I think nobody talks about how most Christians in history never really expected us to last up into 2024.It's supposed to last through the age of Pisces, dumbass.
>>16549109>Astrology
>>16547966This is basically how we wind up with so many different categories of eschatology. First of all you have the various millennialisms, then you have preterism, historicism and futurism. So many people have said "looks like the world might be ending" based on Bible prophecies, and obviously been mistaken, that we need systems to interpret these prophecies without slipping into heresy.
>>16549091So Jesus was just lying in Matthew 15?
>>16549057Oh, that's fun. Where in the bible is that said, do you mind telling me?
>>16549149>lying in Matthew 15You gotta be more specific, chief.
>>16549152>Sola Scriptura
>>16549160No, I really don't - please go and read the first fucking lines of it.
>>16548899Given that changing a single word can change the meaning of almost any sentence, yes, that is a huge stretch.
>>16549163Well, if what the bible says only matters until some random person (other than the random person that wrote the bible, of course) says otherwise, why are you even defending the self-contradictions and lies? Just cite me someone that's holy or whatever criteria you use saying that Jesus was actually lying and be done with it.
>>16549164>Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat.” He answered them, “And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ But you say, ‘If anyone tells his father or his mother, “What you would have gained from me is given to God,” he need not honor his father.What's the problem?>>16549166If you can acknwoledge that a single word can change the meaning of the sentence, then you should be more careful and dogmatic about your own understanding of the verse referring to Jesus' generation.
>>16549180What's the problem? Can you not read? If you don't understand the issue between what Jesus says there and "do as worldly authority says over what God says" then you need to go back to school and/or your handler.
>>16549186Jesus in Matthew 15 is addressing the Pharisees creating unnecessary and unjustified additions to the Law of God, twisting the Scriptures into something that isn't. Romans 13 is about submitting to worldy authorities, in essence it's a ruling against sedition.These two are completely different issues.Why are you so dishonest?
>>16549186>>16549210Also, let's not forget that Jesus is God, so He more than anyone has the power to rebuke any authority, if He so chooses.
>>16549210>>16549216You are too fucking stupid to speak to. You cannot understand the contradictions you're being shown, and I don't possess the words to make you understand them, clearly.As for Jesus being god - mind explaining this? >>16548899Does Jesus know what's going to happen because he's God and omnipotent, or does he not because he's not God and/or omnipotent? Be careful now, because both answers are blasphemy!
>>16549224>heh my limited retarded view of christianity will surely stump the christcuck!
>>16549224>You cannot understand the contradictions you're being shownYou are the one who completely misunderstands both verses, they are addresing two different things, but even if they were and in your mind they are somehow connected, they are not in contradiction because Jesus (God) has the power to rebuke the authority of the Pharisees, while St. Paul in Romans 13 is talking to Christians not having the authority to do the same.>As for Jesus being god - mind explaining this?You....you don't know the basics of Christian doctrine? You know, the Trinity? Doesn't ring any bells?>>>16548899 (You)>Does Jesus know what's going to happen because he's God and omnipotent, or does he not because he's not God and/or omnipotent? Be careful now, because both answers are blasphemy!God can make Himself ignorant of something if He so chooses, so He is ignorant of the time of the end in the Person of the Son, but He isn't ignorant in the Person of the Father.
>>16549236>God can make Himself ignorant of something if He so chooses, so He is ignorant of the time of the end in the Person of the Son, but He isn't ignorant in the Person of the Father.Astonishing. Well, clearly nothing I say will ever fucking matter because you have a ready excuse - not even a good one, like "humans misinterpreted god" which is at least internally consistent if no more compelling.I'd love if you could give me any bit of the bible where god makes himself ignorant of something; not "jesus said something that's wrong", because that's assuming a whole fucking lot, but god's ability to do so being spelled out. Because if you assume god is omnipotent to the extent of being omnipotent over his own omnipotence, there's no fucking point to any of it and I can happily fuck off knowing that you don't exist in the same universe that runs on causality like everyone else.
>>16549236>You are the one who completely misunderstands both verses, they are addresing two different things, but even if they were and in your mind they are somehow connected, they are not in contradiction because Jesus (God) has the power to rebuke the authority of the Pharisees, while St. Paul in Romans 13 is talking to Christians not having the authority to do the same.I disagree entirely. You're saying you should follow the word of authorities when they say you can't tell these people about God, and that's fine because they're authority, but Jesus is saying right fucking there that you can't go against the word of god even if you're an authority. Because I know you'll bitch and moan about the bible never saying to be a missionary - because you don't know your own fucking book and need people to show you where it says shit that contradicts you - here's a nice list someone made of bits of the bible telling you to do so. https://www.openbible.info/topics/spreading_the_word
>>16549242>Astonishing. Well, clearly nothing I say will ever fucking matter because you have a ready excuse Not an excuse, a sound refutation. Just like how God made Himself human in the Person of the Son as Jesus of Nazareth, but not in the Person of the Father. It's the same, they are two different persons, united in essence.- not even a good one, like "humans misinterpreted god" which is at least internally consistent if no more compelling.That is EXACLY what you and others are doing when you keep thinking that Matthew 24 is about Jesus' own generation.>I'd love if you could give me any bit of the bible where god makes himself ignorant of something; The day and the hour of the end times.>not "jesus said something that's wrong", because that's assuming a whole fucking lot, but god's ability to do so being spelled out. Not everything needs to be spelled out for us, that's why we have exegesis. Use your God-given reason for once.>Because if you assume god is omnipotent to the extent of being omnipotent over his own omnipotence, there's no fucking point to any of it and I can happily fuck off knowing that you don't exist in the same universe that runs on causality like everyone else.Anon, please go have a mental breakdown somewhere else.
>>16549256>That is EXACLY what you and others are doing when you keep thinking that Matthew 24 is about Jesus' own generation.You keep saying that Jesus meant something other than what the word "this" means. You are incapable of self-reflection.>Not everything needs to be spelled out for us, that's why we have exegesis. Use your God-given reason for once.Ah, there we go. The bible isn't the truth, the truth is what you think the bible meant to say but didn't say. If you could just look at yourself for two seconds and maybe, I dunno, call yourself something else - not a Christian, because they believe the bible is the truth - it would save everyone so much fucking time in trying to divine your view that actually you are the font of all truth.
>>16549251>You're saying you should follow the word of authorities when they say you can't tell these people about God, and that's fine because they're authority, but Jesus is saying right fucking there that you can't go against the word of god even if you're an authority.And there isn't any contradiction here, earthly authorities all derive from God, they begin and end when He determines it, so He can establish and dethrone any authority that is on the earth, Jesus rebukes the Pharisees because they are clearly going against God even though they think they are following the Law.>Because I know you'll bitch and moan about the bible never saying to be a missionaryI'm not even going to respont to you answer to an argument I'm not even making.
>>16549268>You keep saying that Jesus meant something other than what the word "this" means.The word "this" has multiple uses and can have different meanings. Did you not pass English class either? You're sticking with only one meaning of the word "this" and freaking out when someone tells you that it doesn't have to be that one meaning.>ere we go. The bible isn't the truth, the truth is what you think the bible meant to say but didn't say. If you could just look at yourself for two seconds and maybe, I dunno, call yourself something else - not a Christian, because they believe the bible is the truth - it would save everyone so much fucking time in trying to divine your view that actually you are the font of all truth.Are you one of those people who left one of those fundamentalist protestant sects but never got over reading the Bible as a fundamentalist, by any chance?
>>16549283>The word "this" has multiple uses and can have different meanings. Did you not pass English class either? You're sticking with only one meaning of the word "this" and freaking out when someone tells you that it doesn't have to be that one meaning.Jesus was addressing a group of people, talking about they must do, and using "this generation" to refer to them. You are deciding that this one sentence, with no other reason that if he said otherwise he would be lying and you refuse to countenance that, that he actually meant some other people. It's not even sophistry, it's just lying.>Are you one of those people who left one of those fundamentalist protestant sects but never got over reading the Bible as a fundamentalist, by any chance?I have no clue what you're talking about. I have never been in any of your retarded death cults in any of their guises. There are, in fact, people that hate you and your beliefs other than your fellow abrahamics.
>>16549295>Jesus was addressing a group of people, talking about they must do, and using "this generation" to refer to them. Yes, just not the group of people you think He is.>You are deciding that this one sentence, with no other reason that if he said otherwise he would be lying and you refuse to countenance that, Bad faith argumentation.>that he actually meant some other people. It's not even sophistry, it's just lying.Is my reading possible, yes or no?
>>16549318>Yes, just not the group of people you think He is.He wasn't addressing his mortal disciples in Matthew 24? How exactly do you come to that conclusion?>Bad faith argumentation.Your reasoning is and has been that he can't mean the people before him because they all died before the world ended. If you have some other reason, please, share it with me.>Is my reading possible, yes or no?That's entirely irrelevant. It's possible Jesus was actually talking to the insects on the ground, or that he never said anything and other people made up his words, or that he was addressing me personally 2000 years later and nobody else. It being possible means nothing, and has no relation to your claim that he's actually talking to someone else - who he never specifies, despite this being one of the most important things he ever says in the bible with regard to how the future (didn't) happen.
>>16549333>He wasn't addressing his mortal disciples in Matthew 24?His disciples are more than just the people who were in front of Him, it's everyone who is a Christian. But the generation that He's talking about there is not His own, it's the future generation.>If you have some other reason, please, share it with me.Because He says to us that He doesn't know the day or the hour in the same sermon. And He sets conditions that need to be met before then end, which couldn't be fulfilled within the lifespan of His generation.>That's entirely irrelevant. No it isn't, if my meaning is possible, you have to contend with it and ponder whether your understanding of the verse might have been wrong, thus deflating your objection against Jesus being a liar because of failed prophesies.
>>16548004
>>16549353north sentinels are our fucking heroes, they'll keep the armageddon from happening until heat death.
>>16549114dumbassTaurus then Arie, now Pisces, next Aquarius. All the religions are associated with the solar incarnation of the age. The real question is what does that look like for Aquarius. Fixed air, 11th house, Planet Uranus associated, innovation, technology, and surprising events.
>>16549382Zeitgeist shit.>In 20 fucking 24
>>16549353May God rest his soul. He was misguided in his ways, but his goal and his heart were in the right place. He offered them peace and all those heathen savages gave him in return was arrows. They make a fine example for why people need Christ.
>>16549349>His disciples are more than just the people who were in front of Him, it's everyone who is a Christian. But the generation that He's talking about there is not His own, it's the future generation.How exactly do you come to that conclusion?>Because He says to us that He doesn't know the day or the hour in the same sermon. And He sets conditions that need to be met before then end, which couldn't be fulfilled within the lifespan of His generation.Day and hour, not year or generation. Again, you're saying it's impossible to spread the word of god because... well, you don't think they had the technology - they didn't, but they also didn't have the technology to survive a worldwide flood in a boat filled with all the animals of the world - and the laws of the world, which are somehow above the power of god.>No it isn't, if my meaning is possible, you have to contend with it and ponder whether your understanding of the verse might have been wrong, thus deflating your objection against Jesus being a liar because of failed prophesies.I don't understand what you're trying to say. Thinking about whether I'm right or not is not fucking "deflating my objection", it's basic thought. You are throwing out absurd claims because the only answer that actually makes sense - that jesus wasn't divine, that the bible is full of shit, that god isn't read - isn't palatable to you.
I think Revelation is the blatant proof. The more I read it the more it's obvious John thought Nero was the beginning of the end and Jesus was about to finally return to restore the Kingdom of Israel. It wouldn't surprise me if groups like the Gnostics became bigger when Christians were becoming frustrated with time passing and Jesus still wasn't back so they were trying to find new answers.
>>16549415>astrology wizards show up at lord Jebus' birth>jew man tells cow worshipers that cow worship is over and stone tablets for cardinal fire worship>heracles defeats lion to assume the godhood for the age>mithras kills bull and ascends as god of age>etc.
>>16547966This is something I've meditated on. I have spoken to a lot of protestants who believe they'll certainly live to see the eschaton, and all I can think of is how quotidian these "recognitions of signs" are, and of 2,000 years of futile doomsaying...Jesus constantly emphasizes the imminence of the end. Outsiders see the Biblical texts as written for their contemporary users in antiquity, and can imagine they might have credited the apocalyptic sayings of Jesus. Low IQ golems understand Christianity and the Bible as universal truths for themselves among others, and have literally never thought critically about historical persons reading the same text in a different context or complicated things like that. High IQ Christkikes have a neurotic tolerance for cognitive dissonance, and are able to automatically forget contrary facts if they prefer untruths.
>>16549431>How exactly do you come to that conclusion?Because He commands the apostles to make disciples of all nations, and teach them everything He has taught them.>Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”Matthew 28:16-20>Day and hour, not year or generation. Now you're begging the question.>but they also didn't have the technology to survive a worldwide floodI hope you're aware that you're talking about Noah and his children and not the apostles. But in any case, Noah did have the means to survive the flood, the Ark.>Thinking about whether I'm right or not is not fucking "deflating my objection", it's basic thought.So why haven't you even pondered the possibility that you might have simply misread Christ's prophesies rather than sticking to one understanding of the verse and proclaiming it as the only valid one?
>>16549482Holy shit you're a Zeitgeist faggot.
>>16549499>Because He commands the apostles to make disciples of all nations, and teach them everything He has taught them.Uh, no, actually, he was commanding the apostles of 2000 AD. My evidence? Why, "all nations" aren't disciples, so clearly he couldn't have been talking to them.>Now you're begging the question.Ah, that's what it is when I do it, but when you do it because the Bible can't be wrong it's... what?>I hope you're aware that you're talking about Noah and his children and not the apostles. But in any case, Noah did have the means to survive the flood, the Ark.Yes, I know I'm talking about fucking Noah. The point is that you're assuming they couldn't spread the word because of physics, when the bible is very clear about that shit meaning nothing in the face of God's will.>So why haven't you even pondered the possibility that you might have simply misread Christ's prophesies rather than sticking to one understanding of the verse and proclaiming it as the only valid one?Because "misreading" to you is "assuming the words mean what the words mean and not something completely different". If the word of the Bible doesn't mean what it says, what's the point in discussing it and not, I dunno, our gut feelings that are clearly actually God guiding us?
>>16549503Those things are literally tru though, but 9-11 was probably not an inside job.
>>16549516>Uh, no, actually, he was commanding the apostles of 2000 AD. My evidence? Why, "all nations" aren't disciples, so clearly he couldn't have been talking to them.You know the difference between a command and a prophesy, right? If I say "this building will fall in the future" is not the same as me saying "I command you all to bring down this building". You're so silly anon.>Ah, that's what it is when I do it, but when you do it because the Bible can't be wrong it's... what?I'm not begging the question, I'm presenting arguments as to why other readings are wrong and mine is.>The point is that you're assuming they couldn't spread the word because of physics, when the bible is very clear about that shit meaning nothing in the face of God's will.Right, but like I said, God didn't fly the apostles through the air to spread the Gospel to all the nations within the lifespan of Jesus' generation, that's not what happened. God didn't intervene in such a way there.>Because "misreading" to you is "assuming the words mean what the words mean I've already told you that "this" can have multiple meanings, you refuse to accept this. I can use the word "this" to refer to something that is not necessarily in front of me. Like pointing to a house on a map and say "this house" even though it's not right in front of me. You're just taking one meaning of the word and sticking with it for no justifiable reason.
>>16549544>Those things are literally tru though,There are entire articles and videos disproving the Zeitgeist movie point by point. Just google Zeitgeist debunked and you'll see it.Here's onehttps://medium.com/@shadowfolds/can-we-please-stop-saying-that-jesus-is-a-copy-of-pagan-gods-78a128863d49
>>16549557Some of it is bullshit but you doing the jew move by throwing it all out cause it's not 100% correct is even more stupid.
>>16549549>You know the difference between a command and a prophesy, right? If I say "this building will fall in the future" is not the same as me saying "I command you all to bring down this building". You're so silly anon.That's not what we're talking about, we're talking about who he's addressing.>I'm not begging the question, I'm presenting arguments as to why other readings are wrong and mine is.Do you not know what begging the question means?>Right, but like I said, God didn't fly the apostles through the air to spread the Gospel to all the nations within the lifespan of Jesus' generation, that's not what happened. God didn't intervene in such a way there.Really? Are you sure? What's your proof? Is it not possible that he did so?>I've already told you that "this" can have multiple meanings, you refuse to accept this. I can use the word "this" to refer to something that is not necessarily in front of me. Like pointing to a house on a map and say "this house" even though it's not right in front of me. You're just taking one meaning of the word and sticking with it for no justifiable reason.And the use of the words "this generation", while addressing mortal people, only has one way to be interpreted. You have to assume Jesus is talking, for one sentence in the middle of a speech, to a different group.
>>16549567>throwing it all out cause it's not 100% correctIt's not even 10% correct.
>>16548853This is what the zoomers refer to as 'cope'
>>16549571>That's not what we're talking about, we're talking about who he's addressing.In both cases He's addressing the same people: His followers.>Do you not know what begging the question means?Presupposing a premise without jusifying. You're presuming that "this" should be read as "my" without justifying it beyond "dUde iT's oBvIoUssssssssssss">Really? Are you sure? What's your proof?.......The entire book of the Acts of the Apostles?>And the use of the words "this generation", while addressing mortal people, only has one way to be interpreted. No it doesn't. I've alreadly told you that yes, it could mean "my generation" but another perfectly possible meaning is "that generation".>You have to assume Jesus is talking, for one sentence in the middle of a speech, to a different group.And that's not possible because........................?
>>16549597Zoomers are retards. Who would've thought?
>>16547966Paul even thought it would happen in his lifetime. He always told people to sell everything they had because they wouldn't need it soon. He thought this because Jesus said it would:>For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”Matthew 16:27-28
>>16549567Ok, what part of it is correct?
>>16549615This entire thread is debunking this incorrect readling of Jesus' prophesies.
>>16549576yeah and it was probably made to discredit the ideas even though every ancient religion from sumerian through egyptian down to greek and them all incorporated astrology into their cosmology.
>>16549599>In both cases He's addressing the same people: His followers.Do you think you're being smart? Do you think any other human being can't read what you write and see that you're desperately posting completely random bullshit to avoid admitting that he's speaking to a group of people physically before him?>Presupposing a premise without jusifying. You're presuming that "this" should be read as "my" without justifying it beyond "dUde iT's oBvIoUssssssssssss"No, I'm assuming "this generation" means "the current generation" because that's what "this generation" means when you're talking to and about people of the current generation. You are presupposing that in the middle of the speech he talked to the people in the future - probably even further than 2000 years, but only spoke of days and hours and not centuries and millennia.>No it doesn't. I've alreadly told you that yes, it could mean "my generation" but another perfectly possible meaning is "that generation".No, it's not. Jesus was not speaking to the future generations, or dictating a will for them, he was speaking to the people before him of that time. You are, again, assuming that because the world hasn't ended that jesus must have, without comment or qualification, without any hint to those around him, spoken a sentence to the future instead. You are completely impossible to talk to.>And that's not possible because........................?Because, retard, that's not how talking works. Imagine for a moment that in the middle of this post I added something for someone else.>Do you think you're being smart? >I need you to get me a bottle of milk.>Do you think any other human being can't read what you write and see that you're desperately posting completely random bullshit to avoid admitting that he's speaking to a group of people physically before him?Do you think, in any fucking form or manner, it could be interpreted as me talking to someone else in the middle?
>>16549633>Do you think you're being smart? Yes, very.>that he's speaking to a group of people physically before him?He's speaking to a group, what He is talking to them about is not necessarily themselves. You think when someone tells a story to an audience he necessarily has to be talking about them?>No, I'm assuming "this generation" means "the current generation" because that's what "this generation" means when you're talking to and about people of the current generation.He isn't. Speaking to and speaking about are completely different things.>You are presupposing that in the middle of the speech he talked to the people in the futureI'm not presupposing it, I've already presented arguments for why that is the correct reading>probably even further than 2000 years, but only spoke of days and hours and not centuries and millennia.The "day or the hour" doesn't refer to how much time they had left before the end, it's talkig about the precision of the knowledge that the Father has about the end.>No, it's not. Jesus was not speaking to the future generations, or dictating a will for them, he was speaking to the people before him of that time. Speaking to and speaking about are not the same thing. And remember that Jesus doesn't know the time of the end either, therefore it makes sense that He would have warned them about these things, since it could very well have happened to them in their time.> without any hint to those around himI've already told you that he set conditions for the end that couldn't have been met within the lifetime of His generation.
>>16549633>>16549679>Because, retard, that's not how talking works. Imagine for a moment that in the middle of this post I added something for someone else.That's perfectly possible, that's how this board works, you can address different people on a single post.>Do you think, in any fucking form or manner, it could be interpreted as me talking to someone else in the middle?Yes? There is no way for me to get you a bottle of milk, so I assume you're talking to someone else.
>>16549679Right, your entire fucking post boils down to "I don't understand what speech is" and "Jesus was right therefore any excuse, no matter how obviously wrong, must be right". You accused me of begging the question, I'm accusing you of being a disingenuous, lying, retarded cunt. >I'm not presupposing it, I've already presented arguments for why that is the correct readingYour argument is that the world didn't end, and that Jesus can't be wrong because he can't be wrong.Again, he is doing this in the middle of a speech directly to his mortal disciples right in front of him. You have no reason to think this sentence alone is addressed to the future, none at all other than the fact that you exist and the world hasn't ended.>The "day or the hour" doesn't refer to how much time they had left before the end, it's talkig about the precision of the knowledge that the Father has about the end.You are illiterate. This explains a whole fuck of a lot, actually. You're also assuming a great deal about what Jesus actually meant, but did not say, once again.>therefore it makes sense that He would have warned them about these things, since it could very well have happened to them in their time.No, he thought it would happen in their generation. You, solely, are the retard that thinks "this generation" means a different one.>I've already told you that he set conditions for the end that couldn't have been met within the lifetime of His generation.And I keep fucking telling you that this is your heretical view talking. There is no reason God could not have spirited the apostles across the world - and of course many of the stupid texts about heads coming back to life and teleporting and shit are about the apostles, so I really don't know what you're on. But, again, this is in the middle of a speech to and about those directly in front of him, and the only reason you think it's addressed to the future is that the future exists against Jesus' word.
>>16549621>This entire thread is debunking this incorrect readling of Jesus' prophesiesYour cope doesn't stand up to any scruitiny. It wasn't him predicting the temple, as that makes no sense about his army of angels coming with his rewards. It's not the transfiguration because it's absurd to tell a crowd of people some there will live to see the kingdom, but "secretly" just mean he was going to sneak 3 of his closest apostles up a mountain and give them a vision of it a week later.
>>16549771Alright anon, we're done. I won't throw my pears to the swine anymore. You clearly refuse to even consider that you could be wrong.Go in peace.
>>16549781The fucking hubris of you thinking your """"wisdom"""" is unto pearls is astonishing. I would advise flagellation and penance, but I know you won't do as your retarded book tells you - you've been clear enough that you think yourself above it. Not so far above it that you won't use it to justify yourself, of course, but above any of the rules it gives.I am not refusing to consider that I might be wrong, I am refusing to consider "well if you assume the bible is wrong then actually the bible is right" as a fucking argument.
Why didn't God tell them about the Americas and stuff
>>16547966It's not really undiscussed, CS Lewis called Mark 13:30 "the most embarrassing verse in the Bible"
>>16547966>contemporary ChristianityThere is no such thing. There is only Christianity.Those who doesn't act like Christians are not Christians. Simple as.
imagine arguing this much over fantasies
>>16549867>CS LewisAn anglican heretic. Who cares what he thinks?
>>16547966Yes, every generation of Christians has been "THIS IS IT THIS IS THE BIG ONE" flavored. It's what happens when you create a death cult that masturbates to the idea of martyrdom.
>>16550139*Looks back at WW1 and WW2*Wasn't epic enough, huh?
>>16550195Do you not know what revelation is other than "bad things"? It's a very explicit account of armageddon and has no relation to either of the wars beyond people dying.
>>16550195Yes, Christians have also been like "IT ALREADY STARTED THE ENDING IS UPON US" every generation. Take your fetish for gore and suicidal ideations to the grave with you, faggot.
>>16550139Check earlier in the thread, I discussed that there's an entire area of Christian theology around this whole thing, known as eschatology.First off there's millennialisms - what does Jesus' 1000-year reign mean? Is it actually 1000 years (amillennialism says no to this question), and if so will he return after it (postmillennialism, not sure how that works) or before it(premillennialism)? Then you have preterism, historicism, and futurism. This is about when the various prophecies in the Bible were fulfilled - each school of thought has this happening in the past, throughout history including in the present, or the future, respectively.>>16549998Easy to say now but these "fantasies" impacted how Christian societies approached the world. If you think Jesus will return after his kingdom is established, that means it's your responsibility as a Christian to do so. From the Wikipedia:>Postmillennialism was a dominant theological belief among American Protestants who promoted reform movements in the 19th and 20th centuries such as abolitionism and the Social Gospel.
>>16550139>catholics hold as doctrine that the antichrist has already come and goneWhat a strange religion.
>>16547966The main problem is people are under the delusion the Jews were ever chosen by God as a special people. They weren't and this video series does a great job at debunking that lie:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT_RUdBTlp4
>>16548819Are you just not familiar with the Great Commission, or willfully ignorant because it doesn't fit your agenda?>And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”Matthew 28:17-20>>16548014Matthew has it recorded that Jesus said to preach to all nations, and Mark that he said to preach to all of creation. Are fifty or so years enough time to preach to the whole world? No. It isn't even enough to preach to all of the Mediterranean.
>>16549353Dude knew he was probably going to die. He willingly died a martyr's death in an attempt to spread Christ to a hostile people. There is no shame in that.
