>rust is bad>python is bad>javascript is bad>linux is badis he right?
>bald sociopath techbro thread
>>100114491yeahtoo bad his games are bad
>>100114491why would you lisen to these guru lunatics.just use the best tool for the jobjavascript/typescipt is great with frontendpython is alright for scriptingrust is good replacement for safe embeddedand linux is awesome for server stuff
>>100114491reminder that SOULJA absolutely BODIED this BALDING sokoban cloning NEPO BABY chud
>>100114522braid is good
>>100114542Unemployed >>100114491No he's retarded and lives in a bubble
>>100114491Yes. He is an easy target because he is fundamentally a pessimist within our current culture of eternal coping optimism and excuse making.
>>100114491how is nu windows better?
>>100114491Yes for all.But he hates Linux for the wrong reasons. (Retarded winbab PEBKAC’ing)Just wish he’d give up the facade of enjoying game dev and just start his revolutionary OS already.
>>100114696>just start his revolutionary OS already.Did he make the logo already?
>>100114696>Retarded winbab PEBKAC’ingwhat does this memeshit mean
>>100114491>another eceleb threadInto the >>>/trash/ it goes
>>100114736It means he can't install Gentoo
>>100114736It's simple. Blowjob is a retarded larper.
>>100114736That you need to lurk for a few more years
I hate programming
>>100114511jon is anything but a techbrothis guys ships one (admitedly high quality) thing every decade
>>100114491interesting how everything other than his products is bad
>gook game bad
>>100114491Yes, he is.
>>100116340i think it was phil fish that said that
>>100114491He blocked me on twitter for correcting his math. On christmas he bought some book on random algorithms and started criticizing the book as if the author didn't know what he was talking about (the author is a professor of math at Harvard if I recall correctly). Made a bunch of false statements about how to verify matrix multiplication just multiplying n basis vectors is better than random sampling methods.I corrected his math. As a result, he deleted his tweets and blocked me lol.I like him but he probably has a bit of an inflated view of his own intelligence relative to others.
>>100116340>>100116375Both didhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKUGwlFJAHw
>>100116382what is the point of blocking out your name anon? i found you in like 30 secs. just like, wondering what is the logic.
>>100116382I don’t really like the majority of textbooks so I can sympathize with his view. Also omw
>>100116428Not all niggers are black.
>>100114542This is such a bitch ass generic top reddit post first result google article website pussy answer
>modern tech is so inefficient>spends 10 years making a vidya gaym clone
HE DONT EVER RUN OUT OF THE UHH GOIN BACK IN TIME POTION
>>100116458How did you find me?
>>100116554i just searched for your posts to verify that they're real lol
>>100114491right and based
>>100114491Man made 2 shit games, then decided to waste his time making an entire language (and all the other parts needed for it), and a shitty box pushing game, all while giving takes that the only the autistic contrarians here who don’t work would say.Needless to say, just because this bundle of sticks says words, doesn’t mean they are worth anything, if anything he’s worse than a junior dev (especially given his “I will reinvent the wheel because it I don’t like like the current type” mentality that only <6 month devs have)
>>100116382What does he say? I don't have twitter so I can't even search for the posts.Also what was the exact problem? Just comparing coefficients should be linear time so it's probably not that?
>>100114491>all his games are badYes he's right.
>>100114567sauce?
>>100116672If I recall correctly it was about multiplying two polynomials together. Might be wrong though.
>>100116672dont have much context, but from my limited reading:first one is probably him talking about just comparing coefficients instead of doing a randomized thing for comparing polynomials not realizing that they did mention that in the book and that it's not the point.second part is him saying you only need to do n basis vectors for verifying matmul result thanks to linearity, missing the point is that the authors are trying to avoid that because it has higher theoretical complexity compared to a randomized thing (think of a really big matrix).overall it's a classic case of jon dismissing ideas over-eagerly.
>Well I would have just done everything simpler in a uniform way starting before either of us were bornIt's that he has the balls to say this like it's not something most people think. The raw testiclesThen he builds an audience of people who want to hear stupid shit put smugly
>>100114567He never reacted to or said anything about some retarded rapper said about enjoying his game. What he did do, which many other people did when suddenly becoming e-famous in the early 2000s, was Google his own name too much and try to control his reputation as a bunch of angry leftist losers working in games journalism denigrated him for shit he didn’t say or wasn’t true about him. I don’t think this is anywhere near as damning as you’re making out.I mean imagine a thousand neckbeard faggots like pic related (look at his avatar for fucks sake) all saying you’re rich and spoiled when your parents weren’t actually rich you’re basically self-made. Why you’d want to be on the side of gaming journalism right before gamergate exploded I have no fucking idea.
>>100116382>techbro is a brainletreally makes you think
>>100114491the only person that will ever love him is his mother
>>100114491>no context>no evidence>just baitStop it
>>100114696Why do Linuxfags have such an inferiority complex
>>100114491Buy an ad
>>100119829It’s not a complex Every time he goes on a rant about Linux it’s always embarrassingly PEBKAC things like M*nt being shit or false equivalencies like “NPM bad so every Linux package manager bad”. Or the usual “too many distros”.He never goes into actual issues, he just armchairs and outsourced Linux dev to his employees.
>>100119769just search jonathan blow + [thing] on youtube and you'll probably find a clip of him saying it's bad
>>100114491Jonathan Blow is a pretentious pseudo-intellectual retard who thinks he's a genius because has the most contrarianfag tier opinions on just about anything when it comes to technology.While he does say that these things you mentioned are bad, he also said that C/C++ was bad and that Windows was bad too.He thinks he's smart and is above everything while all he has ever done is make some pretentious indie fart games and he's currently working so hard on that new Jai programming language (because C++ le bad, remember?) just to make a Sokoban clone.
>>100120311I don’t even like Jai but he primarily made it for ergonomics and comp time reasons slowing him down. Not because c++‘ had performance issues, it was about programmer time.And he solved both of those issues for himself which makes Jai a success.
>>100120355>he solved both of those issues for himselfHow the fuck do you figure that?
>10 years agohttps://youtu.be/TH9VCN6UkyQ?list=PLmV5I2fxaiCKfxMBrNsU1kgKJXD3PkyxO
>>100120383Jai doesn’t have header/ source It doesn’t have disgusting c++ syntaxAnd it has insanely fast (what should be normal) build times. Those were the main complaints blow had.It’s simply a better tool, which is the point of programming langs.
>>100120408is there any documentation on his language other than watching his streams?
>>100120408But he hasn't done anything with the language. Like seriously, think about it.When can you say Jai saves programmer time compared to C++? When someone can create a nontrivial thing faster in Jai than C++.Has Blowjob done that? Fuck no, it's been 8 years and he's still working on his stupid Sokoban game that would take one month in Unreal.
>>100120441There’s various public repos like ‘Jai-Community’But you’ll have to join the beta for actual docs.Last I checked he wasnt taking more people and is currently MIA on streaming (unless he went completely private/sub only which I doubt).But if you have a repo or proof you actually make things, which is what he cares about. He might give you one if you email him. >>100120441He’s made a pretty elaborate and technically impressive game with a lot of custom tech. C++ would take hours to build his sokoban. While he can clean rebuild it in jai in a few seconds.That’s why he isn’t using c++.(Again I don’t even like Jai)
>>100120408header/source is really not a problem and anyone who sets out to "solve" it is tilting at windmills. c++ syntax is actually pretty nice since about '17.build times are a build tooling issue, not a language issue. sounds like mr. blow may have wasted an immense amount of time for no reason.
>bro it's so fucking awesome it's like better than sex bro but you can't use it because you're not special enough broI like Casey, but retards who worship Blow(job) are fucking delusional.
Can't believe he's farming retards and gone MIA lmao
>>100114491>rust is badbeyond based
>>100120624> header/source is really not a problem It literally is. Which is why there’s entire books about avoiding added build times and dealing with header changes .It’s why basically every new lang got rid of them. >built tooling issue Decades later and billions of dollars later and c++ devs haven’t even fixed it. Sounds like a hard language issue.You are knee-deep in the sunken-cost swamp.
>>100120565Whoops>>100120482
>>100114491The first three I agree with.I'm not so sure what his problem is with the linux kernel though. Perhaps he should make a video about it.>Pic-kinda-related.
>>100120715>It literally is. Which is why there’s entire books about avoiding added build times and dealing with header changes .>It’s why basically every new lang got rid of them. you think that we stopped using header/source files because it made build times too long? goodness.>Decades later and billions of dollars later and c++ devs haven’t even fixed it. CMake, meson, bazel all handle this issue where it matters (professional projects). if your toy projects honestly cared about improving their build times, they could adopt suitable tooling.writing a new language has always been an ego project and sadly for mr. blow, it hasn't worked out. he's produced no actual software with it, no one has adopted it, and when he gives up it will be up to people like you to carry it forward. spoiler: it won't get far.
>>100120825You fix your slow build system by piling more build shit on top of an already bloated steaming pile of shit of a build system.Do you "code" for M$ saars?
>>100120825> you think that we stopped using header/source files because it made build times too long? It’s a major factor yes.>cmake meson etcAlll garbage Can I compile LLVM/ GCC in under a minute on a decent machine?No?Then why?Oh because c++ and all its tools are garbage. Which is why we are overflowing with new langs.
>>100120871i work on a project with ~10M lines. incremental builds are the only real solution at that scale, kiddo.>>100120909lol ok. build LLVM in blow's language and report back. i probably have another 30 years before i kick the bucket so i can wait.
Why is Rust bad?
>>100120955Bragging about LoC, and equating it to “realness” is also why c++ is a plague>build LLVM His game is infinitely more complex and its in seconds. Also Zig got rid of LLVM being mandatory and made it optional for a reason.>>100120973Hinging an entire language on abandoned theory like affine types is embarrassing.Personally, reference capabilities are a better method. A bit more upfront cognitive load. But scales much better in both implementation and user-space.
>>100121005What is a reference capability method?
>>100120955>i work on a project with ~10M lines.What type of project? It can't be FizzBuzz unless you're using Rust which could quite possibly exceed 10M LOC, but still. Tell us and be specific, champ.
>>100121037Basically qualifiers to types that limit them to being read/write only, unique/opaque, etc.Check out Pony lang, and Sean. T Allen, and Sylvan Clebsch’s talks
>>100121042I'm making a library that contains all numbers from 0 to 9.999.990 million.
>>100121114Hi maid anon
>>100121073You mean mutability as a type hint?
>>100121114Way to go champ!
>>100121123Goes beyond just ‘mut’, or var/val You’re more “denying” what a variable or type can’t do. In order to obtain safety and soundness assertions.Also helps greatly with concurrency and data sharing, as pony is an actor model language building on message passing.https://tutorial.ponylang.io/reference-capabilities/reference-capabilities.html#the-list-of-reference-capabilities
>>100116514First result is usually right
>>100114491No, he is wrongRust, python, even JS are all goodLinux is good but so is WindowsCan any of them become better? Yes all of them can. Do they have fundamental flaws that cannot be fixed? Again yes all of them.But they are not actually bad. Saying so is just whiny complaining.
>>100121254>it’s good that a programming language wastes your time and immense amounts of energy
>>100121274It's good that the language exists at all so that you can express your thoughts in it and eventually get the computer to do stuff for you. Don't be so full of yourself.
>>100116514>You must spread entertaining misinformation!!!!Rope, stool, closet, now.
>>100121316>uhmmm actually every language is heckin valid and good okay :)I’d rather read another “tool for the job” parrot
>>100116514Its always these retards who think you should just build everything in C, from your kernel to webpage, who refuse to elaborate when disagreeing with "top result bitch pussy reddit opinions"Tech luddites will be left behind by society :^)
>>100121324Not every language, just the ones that people use. Because they produce actual value in the real world.
>>100121393>brainfuck is a good language because lots of people make interpreters and compilers for it
>>100121324This is such an unemployed opinion. Time is money in the real world, ergo deployment time matters, and a smaller deployment time saves most companies more money than the increased energy usage, if the energy usage increase is even noticeable.Python is just as important for the world as C, they serve different jobs. Trying to write a kernel in Rust is futile and an extreme waste of time, and writing basic networking scripts in C takes double the time it takes to write it in Python, plus the added debugging time and time spent solving memory leaks because historically, human programmers suck at using C.Unemployed NEETs love to sperg about how much better life would be if we lived in their hyper efficient fantasy land, but it can't come to fruition.
>>100121165Hmm ok I did some research and will do more. It does sound interesting. But I wouldn’t say Rust is bad because of it, I would say it could do better.
>>100121474The industry only ever thinks of upfront cost.They NEVER think about long-term cost.Which is why terrible langs like python and c++ have massive amounts of engineering to make them semi-bearable.
>>100120649Casey hasn't even shipped a game thoughbeit.
>>100120565>C++ would take hours to build his sokoban. While he can clean rebuild it in jai in a few seconds.first of all, no, it wouldn't take hours, and second of all, does it matter you can rebuild your project 10 times faster if it takes you almost a decade longer to actually ship a game?
>>100121481Rust just has a tough future, and shouldn’t be dealing with build time and implementation complexity issues already. Which all point to affine lifetimes and weakening being anti-features.Although the great irony here is that Wallaroo Labs ( the only public company using pony) actually switched to Rust from Pony. But more because rust has an ML ecosystem. But yeah, once you get over the hurdle of memorizing another 6 keywords. Thinking about types in terms of what they can and can’t do beyond mutating makes a lot of intuitive sense. Rather than reasoning about their lifetime and scope.
JBlow is a mediocre programmer with big ego. That's all there is to it.
>>100121559>does iteration time in game dev matterAbsolutely not you’re correct.We should all have to wait 30 minutes when we want to change a single thing and rebuild. And then have an entire dedicated team to figuring out how to incrementally cache things that haven’t changed . Oh wait that sounds like a compiler thing…..
>>100114491why would you even care?>>100114579it's always been too gimmicky to me. technically, it's fine, but I hated the gameplay.
>>100121653I mean it does matter but you're retarded if you think Jai is the answer to that. The only thing that Jai will ever achieve is release a single grid-traversal game, maybe in another decade, even if that. Hell, even the Braid remaster is getting re-scheduled because these hacks cannot actually ship a product they already shipped. They're a bunch of ego-driven hacks that cannot get anything done, meanwhile, actual (C++) programmers, just get shit done and ship actual games despite the hurdles they have to overcome with the language.
>>100121695ALSO, not to mention that actual good games just resort to some sort of runtime system for gameplay programming, so once you have the engine programming done you're not wasting as much time as you think you are.
>>100121695Jai is not the future, you’re right.It’s another niche language solving the creators frustrations.The point though, is that c++ is very unwieldy and also NOT the future. And programmers need to get out of the sunk-cost swamp and stop accepting mediocrity and shit.Hate jblow all you want for very valid reasons. But he’s truly better than a lot of others because he stopped accepting shit and built something better.
>>100114491Where is Jai? Oh right, it's vaporware
>>100121801> vaporware/g/ doesn’t know what this word means.Also someone cucked him and released the first jai game on Steam.
>>100121531At least he knows his shit. The whole fiasco where he humiliated the Windows Terminal devs was pretty based. With Blow, he's usually the one getting humiliated like when Soulja Boy said his game was pretentious bullshit and he got more assblasted than a fag in prison.
>>100121774What's even the point of "building something better" if it doesn't amount to anything other than bragging rights? You hate women but do shit like this to stand out. At least women are easy to quell, while you faggots are constantly circlejerking around this week's e-celeb who's going to save computers or whatever
>>100121832Yeah, and Indians and Chinks releasing AISlop on Steam for easy money are humiliating Casey because they can actually ship a game.
>>100121531He’s a tools dev and never once claimed to be a game dev
>>100121825How come I can't use the Jai toolchain? How come the source code isn't available? Why has he been hyping it up for almost a decade with nothing to show for it?If the hype around Jai was worth listening to then he wouldn't be so secretive about it. I suspect it's because he is very thin-skinned.
>>100114491Yes.
>>100121863Is that why he spent years uploading the development of a video game only to just suddenly stop and never having done anything beyond waling around between a few procgenned rooms? Aka something an amateur dev can finish in an evening?
>>100121858If Indians can do it, it doesn't really matter, anon.
>>100121839Eventually he’ll release sokoban and make millions of dollars again.He’s also contributing to c and c++‘a decline. A VERY worthy cause.And most likely he has 2-3 games left before retiring to make his OS
>>100114491>thing I didn't create/contribute to badhe's always right in his own little matrix>>100116382topkek
>>100121895>two more weeks
>>100121895>EventuallyHe couldn't even re-release Braid and has had it re-scheduled, but surely, he will eventually finish his simple walking game.
>>100121886>a tools dev switched from one teaching gimmick to another for more momey Wow anon you really cracked the case.
>>100121913He’s spread too thin. Probably why he stopped streaming because it destroyed his productivity
>>100121937>because it destroyed his productivitySure. The fact that even zoomers on Twitch would frequently call out his bullshit is unrelated.
>>100121925The initial argument was that he never claimed to be a game developer. You cannot say he's not a game developer when he spent 4 years developing a game (and failed horribly, while at that).Both Casey and Blow are such weird cases anyway, they both just happened to work with something that was somewhat popular, and now they think they're hot shit. Some of SV seniors would eat these mediocre programmers for breakfast.
>>100121957Anon… the entire point of HMH was to give people a concrete example of how to engine dev a win32 thing from scratch.The game was never the product, the engine, source, and his recordings were.Truly PLEASE stop making me indirectly shill for Casey because of your retardation
>>100121415That's not actual value though.
>>100121979lol people who know that shit don't need a guide, people who don't know that shit and want to ship a game will install unity and make a better game in a weekhandmade hero was casey's attempt at actually making a game he wanted to make while guising it as a guide series, which turned into an utter failure of a venture, sad!
>>100122048Why not?Plenty of people learn new things and make products other people like and find value in. It’s providing value to the worldJust because you don’t see the value doesn’t mean it isn’t valid :)
>>100122072Anon, if he wanted to make a game, he’d just make it without streaming , and have Jblow shill it on stream for free advertising.He didn’t need an elaborate ruse. And it’s also why his latest thing is also educational.
>>100122104nah they just egotripping grifters, the andrew tates of programming lol
>>100122088It's not that I don't see the value. It's that you find zero companies and/or open source projects developing products in brainfuck. There is no value being created.It's a joke language and it can provide value as such. Now if you had mentioned TECO or some such you'd have a point.
>>100122150>money is the only valueSo boring and NPC
>>100122176No, useful products is the only value, it doesn't matter if they cost/make money or not.
>>100114491He only says Rust is bad for game development. He's right about everything.
>>100115823Most programmers ship zero high quality projects in their entire lives so he's well above average.
>>100122209then we return to>I don’t see the value so it doesn’t count
>>100120441If you're white and not some retarded leftist you can just email him and he'll give you access to everything related to Jai.
>>100122363>you can only get access if you have better things to dolol. lmao
>>100120955Google has almost 100M lines of Go in their mono repo and all of it builds from scratch in less than 30 seconds on basically any computer built in the last 10 years. There are plenty of other languages that compile just as fast. Incremental builds are completely unnecessary complexity. It's only necessary in bad languages where the designers didn't spend anytime thinking about build times up front.10M lines is also a tiny project you stupid retard.
>>100121254> everything is actually goodYou shit eating monkeys are the worst.
>>100114491yea ok but when his jailang shit coming out?
>>100122355Again, no, it's not about me seeing the value, it's about things being used.>>100122445There is always room for improvement and seeing what to improve is the first step in doing it. But calling everything bad is basically saying that there is no point in improving anything since we have been doing it for thousands of years and apparently only created bad and useless things.
>>100122445Optimism is naive, but "everything sucks lol" is literally the most midwit take possible.
>>100122653>>100122666Not everything sucks but if you can't admit Python and JavaScript suck you are a shit eating tard.
>>100121864He explained this in a talk, he said something like, he wants to release Jai when it's a language that legitimately good and meaningfully better than other languages for some tasks, and he doesn't think it's at that point yet.
>>100116382youu replied 3 times, fuck off
>>100114491
the seethe at this guy gets stronger and stronger each thread kek chuds
>>100123608More leftists come here everyday.
>>100116514Yeah, but he’s not fucking wrong. Except for Rust, fuck Rust I’m not learning that shit. That and fuck ts>js, either git gud or stop using jeets for code.
>>100114491Does someone make these posts so that people actually start to dislike him?
>>100125113Leftists are flipping out about him because he started openly slamming diversity and DEI.
>blowfags are trying to deflect with vague political babble grim
>>100114542>rust is good replacement for safe embeddedlol norust is actually nicer for cli tools than python
>>100121385you don't have to be a cnile to disagree with the reddit take
>>100121385This seriously fucked me over learning how to program. C is THEORY, and I spent most of my time trying to figure out how C relates AT ALL to modern programming.Do you know how advanced what your making has to be before you have to even TOUCH C programming? They should be teaching javascript, not java, not C++.You should START with javascript, actually- You should START with HTML, then CSS, then PHP, THEN javascript, and then, MAYBE, java.C is for doctorial candidates and people who do science for a living, it has nothing to do with the modern programmer.
>>100125498Its like using rocket scientist to build a soap box derby.
>>100125498I think my friend in college was maybe a little insecure and gave me some bad advice when learning how to program, which kinna hurts cause he was like my kid brother.I wish I hadn't gone nutzoid on him that one time
>>100121114How many left to add?
>>100116382Blowsisters… our response?
>>100114491hes right about everything and if you dont agree you're a retard
>>100125498>You should START with javascript, actually- You should START with HTML, then CSS, then PHP, THEN javascript, and then, MAYBE, java.No and kill yourself you dumb nocoder
>>100117255>>100120565Jonathon Blow apologists coping and seething ITT
>>100125498this is bait but it's sad that some people actually think this and still dont actually know how to program a computers 10 years into their career.
>>100114542>javascript/typescipt is great with frontendAs if we have any other choice.
>>100114542This. These youtube clout chasing progfluencers won't make you a better programmer maybe a more opinionated and arrogant one.Go listen to someone who has actual skills and is willing to share them.Go implement some fancy shit.
>>100122770>javascript sucks>lemme just quickly do some client side scripting in C++Actually no, I think that JS is good and can be quite elegant at times. >but muh weird type conversion meme that i found on redditSo just don't write dumb shit. Why would you compare null to negative zero etc.
>>100122770I even think that Python is a good language even though I personally hate it, or rather, hate working in it.
From a range of based to not basedPerl>javascript>python>rust
>>100127375>filtered by types
bad is good
>>100114696You know that if he did that he wouldn't release it for another 40 years. You'll be dead or retired before you get to use it and he'll be more than 95 years old.
>>100121637>mediocre programmer2 successful well made indie games plus a new language from scratch, looks pretty good to me>big egoyes as everyone who want to achieve things in life
>>100127375anything but fucking perl, i've slowly been rewriting all of my perl scripts into anything else, i would take php over perl
>>100114491Probably. Look at the witness. Guy is actually using stuff in this engine. To all the other companies it doesn't matter what code they will use to vomit their next third person cinematic clone crafting open world action battlepass game.
