I'm okay with this.
Okay, let’s not talk about the irrefutable proof of aliens?t.american
>>2763701lmao the absolute state of muttland
>>2763719The absolute state of obsessed eurostanis.
>>2763701I think an exterior steel frame to hold the roof and walls and an interior foam structure is probably the ideal way to build in any climate desu.
probalby not naked foam but maybe SIPs
Viewed a house a few years back that was entirely constructed from foam insulation bricks. Had some interesting properties - Moisture ingress was basically no concern and the R-value of the whole place was fantastic. But a relatively unproven construction technique, I think I'll let other people break their teeth on that one.It was by a nationally renowned architect so not some podunk homebuild, but still...
>>2763701>Novel building method will mean no chance of a mortgage.>No way of knowing if it's going to be venting fumes into your house especially if you've built it for ultra insulation reasons and airflow is going to be kept to a minimum.>rodents will have a field day if they get in>wtf happens in 20 years time, how do you even do repairs to itIf I was doing an unusual build I'd consider hempcrete blocks or haybale.
>>2763719kek, it will be 450000 dollars plus tip.
>>2763738Steel? Serious question: does it really ever rain in Arizona? I heard it’s basically a desert so no rusting. And probably no hurricanes or tornados, so the foam won’t blow away.Arizona is a utopia!
>>2763891Dying from heat stroke is not my idea of a utopia
>>2763891Yes, deserts do get rain. The clouds that come in are mostly depleted of their moisture by the time they arrive, but larger storms can still be holding onto some that inevitably gets dumped for a short, intense (or quiet) period of time. Flash flooding is very common in these areas due to this reason.
>>2763781>Novel building method will mean no chance of a mortgage.This varies greatly by lender. Fanny Mae or some shit like that, they won't sign off on it. You could probably find a bank that would though. Insurance would be my major concern.>No way of knowing if it's going to be venting fumesDepending on the foam used, this could also be a non issue.>rodents will have a field day if they get inAgain, depending on the foam used. Some types of foam rodents won't touch. We use it to keep them out of spaces a lot. It is very effective.>how do you even do repairs to itThis could be super simple depending on how the build it. My shed, for example, has panel siding that is 4x10 feet and held on with sheet metal screws. It is easy to pop off and replace. It also allowed me to wire it after the fact without having to move anything inside the shed. So, if they did something like that it could be as easy as removing a panel, carving out the damage, filling it was with canned stuff, cleaning up the extra, and replacing the panel.Fire would really concern me though. Even a small one. What kind of shit is it going to off-gas? Some foams are fine under normal circumstances but put out toxic smoke in a fire. Like, kill you in minutes kind of smoke. Not that any house fire is gonna be nice to deal with but how are you going to clean that up? Toss all your stuff and scrub the inside of the place like an operating room?
>>2763742SIPs are terrible and ALWAYS fail. For reference see Joe Lstiburek. Nice idea that cannot be properly implemented in reality
>>2763701House made out of Napalm... great idea. At least you'll die from the toxic black smoke before the napalm melts onto your flesh. Kids will die of cancer in their 40's.
>>2763701Add some mesh and shotcrete and it's fine.
>>2763701I'd rather get a 3d printed house or concrete poured over a balloon. But house prices aren't allowed to go down.
>>2763701I don’t click links but that’s probably an ICF build. The foam acts as formwork then concrete is poured in, so it’s essentially a concrete wall clad in foam for r-value. They’re typically costlier than traditional wood frame builds, here at least.
>>2763961It was a 90s build I think so yeah, not novel. I assume there are reasons it hasn't taken off though.
>>2763950ICF can't do columns and roofs, these are the same panels you'd use for under slab insulation. Then they shotcrete/plaster it with glass fiber reinforced concrete. ICFs build the walls a little faster, but this can build the entire structure.
>>2763950I doubt it's costlier than a wood frame building build to the same airtightness standards. Wood frame construction has so many ways to leak.
>>2763701>extremely flammable>offgasses chemicalsNo thanks.
>>2764481>extremely flammableAs is soft wood.>offgasses chemicalsIt's much more thoroughly reacted and shielded than spray foam insulation in woodframe buildings, which is the only way to build woodframe airtight.
>>2764478How close to phoenix were you? Or tucson? Everyone knows those are lemons. The rural areas up closer to utah are interesting.Lots of alternative construction techniques in use there.
>>2763909>Fire would really concern me thoughIt will be raining burning napalm inside until the whole place goes up like a tire dump
>>276457840 min outside of phoenix. Now I live in a place that has green trees, white winters, and white faces and it's beautiful
>>2763701
>>2763947>concrete poured over a balloonCool
>return to pioneer
>>2763701Oh yeah put me in a human sized esky/chilly bin
>>2764562Foam = napalm in a fire dummy. In no way whatsoever is it compsrable to wòd. Also, wood when burning is still strong... not so for melting foam. As to airtight, yoh literally do not know what the fuck you are talkimg about. Spray foam is 100% not needed for an air-tight enclosure. Once again I will cite Joe Lstiburek in this thread. Watch some of his youtube lectures... the one from UC Berkeley is particularly enjoyable, and he's a great speaket to boot
>>2763701>build house of foam>5 years later, 5 new cancersbotswana
>>2763947>>2765007>>concrete poured over a balloonwhat did they mean by this
>>2765361>Foam = napalm in a fire dummy.They put in oxygen getters, so at the start of a fire it's self extinguishing. Also it's behind a couple cm of glass fiber reinforced concrete on all sides.If a fuel truck crashes into the home and breaks all the walls and ignites at extremely high temperature, then it might contribute significantly to the fire straight away ... but you'd be pretty fucked to start with.
>>2765361>Joe LstiburekTell me, what is his opinion on anything less than 3 ach@50?
>>2765577PS. he likes spray foam BTW.
>>2763701Seems a worse idea than using sticks. Steel frame construction would be better.
>>2763719Nigga I went in to help my yuro friend finish his house.>ytong>we used a fucking spoon to dig out channels for conduits in walls
>>2765577Has nothing to do with spray foam. It is all in the details, connecting the air barrier layers properly at all openings, and designing systems that fail gracefully. As to your question, there are many solutions he is a propoment of including the ZIP system + exterior insulation. You can find the detaiks in his latest book, or watch some youtube lectures of his to get an idea
>>2765581That's not the question here. The claim is spray foam is required to form an airtight enclosure and that's patently false. There is nothing wrong with spray foam, but it isn't a requirement
>>2765603It does, your glorious expert outright says it's very hard to get good air tightnes at rafters without spray foam for instance. There he wants greater air tightness than average.The details get fucked up if doing it wrong is easy. With sufficient autism and tape you can accomplish that air tightness without, but the average migrant wagie won't. Even Joe agrees.
>>2765593That still needs insulation and a facade. The structural walls for ytong are aerated concrete, better than a brick wall but still not sufficient insulation in and of itself.Better than sticks though.
>>2765593It's not structural though. The structure is in the RC columns... Right? Surely you'd put those in something as weak as aerated concrete? I know I would.>>2765744>better than a brick wall but still not sufficient insulation in and of itselfSeriously? They say the 37cm block is enough to not need any insulation over it.
>>2763923the issue with sips is humidity control and not using a good vapor barrier. but these have always been issues regardless of what construction method is used. with things like the zip peel and stick and conditioned attic spaces, sips is fine to use.
>>2765361>Foam = napalm in a fire dummybruh, this isn't 1954 any more. we have non flammable plastics and self-extinguishiung foams.
>>2763701imagine the rodents and bug issues you will get..
>>2763781>airflow is going to be kept to a minimumno modern house is built without an air exchange you fucking idiot.
>>2767650did you mean won't? do you not realize the problems you have are because you live like a pig?
>>2763701Foam core concrete has been a common building method for two decades.
>>2767623>Seriously? They say the 37cm block is enough to not need any insulation over it.Is that the new energy blocks?
>>2765593That's weird, Ytong blocks are perfectly fine from what I've heard
>>2767817Interior ytong is gypsum block, plenty strong but relatively soft. Structural ytong is aerated concrete.
>>2767810I have no fucking idea really. For what it's worth they sell Multipor that is literally insulation for other walls.
>>2763891They have a monsoon season in the winter
i fucking hate plastic in construction so no i wouldn't. i would rather live in a shack like this >>2765206
>>2763738Clad with solar panel roofing
>>2767623There are special hollow blocks in which you put the rebar and then pour concrete over when the wall is done, no need to frame the column and there's no thermal bridge this way either, but I'm not sure if the hollow blocks that are used are structurally fit for that long term. This is a new trend to avoid thermal bridges that is also seen in 38cm clay blocks as well but again I'm skeptical over the long term structural implications of that, I'd still rather go with exposed concrete beams for my house and then insulation over them.
>>2765419Maybe he's talking about monolithic dome houses. They're made by inflating a huge half sphere balloon and spraying the inside with shotcrete.
>>2763701If you soak shit like styrofoam in gasoline you can make a fun jelly that is surprisingly flame retardant
>>2765741Which is why he says to put the insulation on the outside of the structure you dingus. He literally makes jokes about insulating internally and how stupid it is to do so if you have a choice
>>2769553Those blocks must be perfectly fine.I can't get a clearer shot off street view but there are these 2 houses built in the middle of a forest that have sat there for 15+ years with exposed ytong blocks and they are doing perfectly fine, people live in them, I saw lights on last week. I assume they used the block with the circular holes for the RC columns because you cannot see anything but ytong on the outside.>but how do you know there are RC columns at allThat would have been flattened with the ground a decade ago. Seismically active region, not that much but enough that even sheds get RC columns.
Naah, we need to genetically engineer homes that you can plant and the seed sprouts within 6 months into the basic structure, even giant leaves sprout to form the roof covering.
Just add rebar and concrete
Yes because I am a cheap shit. Hopefully I could diy it myself. The decorate it. Million dollar mansion for a few thousand bucks.
>>2763701if you show me a picture of what it'll look like in 15 years, and some health effects reassurances, i don't see why not. "normal" is only stuff you learned as a child anyway. i don't care about the stigmas of living in a fake house.
>>2763701And they charge you as much a brick
>>2763781>how do you even do repairs to itdrill a hole, insert a tube, psssshhh, done
>>2764481what is fire rated foambut i doubt those cheap fucks would use it anyway
>>2770837>what is fire rated foamFoam that will not readily burn. It might smolder, but it won't burst into flames and help spread a fire from a small ignition source.
>>2763923Why not use steel-insulation-steel sips? Perfect humidity barrier, light, durable and easy to adjust.
>>2763701foam is good insulationcheap air conditioning/heating
>>2763701Reinforced concrete with a HAS spall liner but different doors than the standard USAF clamshell.
>>2763701I wonder how fire proof it is.
>>2763701>Building a one story house with anything but bricksNO
>>2763909>Some types of foam rodents won't touch.If even rats don't touch it would you really want to live in it?
>>2772924>If even rats don't touch it would you really want to live in it?this passes for logic around these parts.
>>2763891they get big ass monsoons in august and september
>>2763701If I had the money to build my own house, dude weed would be my choicehttps://youtu.be/eqLXXjvQXgI
>>2763701i'd do it for the fun adventures of acquiring said foamhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLmD_69pXpk&t=133s
>>2765593Kek based Ytong connaisseur
>>2763891>Arizona is a utopia!As long as you don't want to go outside.
>>2763701One gust of wind and it's over, lmao
>>2772699IRBC has specific requirements for flammability and fire spread speed. If it didn't meet them, the manufacturers wouldn't be able to get engineering approval, and they'd get sued out of existence by insurance companies the first time one of them burned down.
>>2775832>IRBCNobody fucking calls it that. There is the IBC and the IRC. Fucking retard. You have no idea how pissed I am at you right now, and I don't even know you. Way to ruin my perfectly good Sunday afternoon, fucktard.
>>2763701I would do it for memes.
>>2763891when it does rain it can rain a shit ton all at once
>>2763718This is the real proof of aliens
>>2763701Imagine the Grenfell
>>2763701> house> made of foampick one
>>2780106You have self extinguishing EPS so that problem is solved. And yes, after adding a layer of shotcrete or ferrocement on the inside and outside, I would be fine with living in OP's house.
>>2780106Unispace isn't owned by the Exclusive Breatheren anymore... You should be safe... But I'm not shitting you they are some evil people. And pretty much own a lot of material supply in Australia and the UK
>>2770036I've seen ICFs, but I've never thought of doing the inverse. This shit actually looks pretty neat, you could build a fucking indestructible fortress with these all by yourself lego block style and put the rebar in and just pour away... That's basically what we would call a sandwich wall (two layers of masonry filled with insulation in between) all in one block. Getting tradies to build that shit in my corner of Europistan would be 200 bucks a square meter in labor alone for the three separate parts of the wall plus a ton of time wasted meaninglessly. I wonder how much that shit costs because even if it was a third as cheap as actual cinder blocks I'd be thrilled, it'd be a major contender for the material I'll eventually be building my dream house (a neogothic castle Strawberry Hill/Braziers Park style) with.
>>2763701not the entire god damn house just insulation and only if I was an absolute cheap cunt>>2781777>I've seen ICFs, but I've never thought of doing the inverse.seems like a fucking massive labor cost for reasons of pure autism>Getting tradies to build that shit in my corner of Europistan would be 200 bucks a square meter in labor alone for the three separate parts of the wall plus a ton of time wasted meaninglessly.europistan does pic related already for decadesit just works
>>2780106>cover massive building in napalm for insulationwhy are brits this stupidit could have looked like this if they just LEFT IT but no muh energy costs
>>2780003
>>2782009>europistan does pic related already for decades>it just worksThat's cheaping out where I'm from. Only sandwich walls are considered "real" masonry work. And you won't ever need to redo your insulation that way so eventually the cost levels out, meanwhile if you're just sticking it onto the wall you'll be doing it again in 30 years time. Most of the houses built after 1970 in my village have 25cm blocks as the first wall, then EPS fixed on that with both mortar and anchors, and then a facade wall made of brick which is often plastered over so you can't tell there's three layers. My grandpa left the brick facade as is though. There's also the option of laying a stone facade wall but it's a bit more expensive, although looks much more real than gluing those shitty 1cm flat rocks on the wall. Newer houses tend to use mineral wool instead of EPS.And why would you reckon the labor cost of insulated cinder blocks is high? It's just stack and pour, like normal ICFs.
>>2781777>>2782009>>2782048https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavity_wall This is what I meant by "sandwich wall" btw, I guess angloids call them cavity walls, same thing really
>>2765593>>2765744>>2767623I lived in a Ytong apartment complex, the moisture is fucking HELL. Walls were essentially going black in winter from mould growth. You *need* an overhang big enough to eliminate the possibility of any rain except the few occasional wind driven droplets hitting the wall. The blocks soak up moisture like a towel. And yes it was rendered over and everything, doesn't help. Either a metre long overhang or >>2782051are a necessity.
>>2782048>That's cheaping out where I'm from.It kinda is.>Only sandwich walls are considered "real" masonry work.No one does these anymore here. A ventilated facade would be "not cheaping out" here these days. It's becoming very common on apartment buildings.>>2782051I am not an angloid I am a slav. It is called a sandwich wall as well.>>2783654>I lived in a Ytong apartment complex, the moisture is fucking HELLI lived in a building from 1991 built out of shitty AAC with 5cm styrofoam glued on the exterior which is somehow still holding up today. No moisture issues to speak of but I did have cockroaches appearing all the time, on the 4th floor no less. It was cool enough in the summer and very warm in the winter though.
>>2784061A lot of people still do sandwich walls when it comes to individual houses. Definitely not on apartment complexes though, that would make zero sense. Ventilated facades are very metrosexual, they have a huge bugman aesthetic and I've never seen them on single family homes, but they serve a decent enough purpose I suppose. Also doubt your cockroach issue was related to the block itself, there has to have been some sort of food source attracting them in the general vicinity of your apartment. This kinda sucks because for all you know it could be the wood glue in your neighbour's shitty furniture and you're suffering collateral damage as a result of that.
>>2763701>Would /diy/ build>buildlet me stop you right there
>>2763701No, Next question.
>>2784213>Ventilated facades are very metrosexual, they have a huge bugman aestheticKek, I gotta agree with that. Ugly shit.>and I've never seen them on single family homes, I have on two or more like one and a half, since that's an old duplex and one half got a tumor added onto the back of it. Rare as fuck overall.>This kinda sucks because for all you know it could be the wood glue in your neighbour's shitty furnitureI would more say it was our shitty furniture. We had a lot of the original garbage that was falling apart.>and you're suffering collateral damage as a result of that.I was suffering collateral used qtips falling through the ceiling from the dude upstairs because the holes in the slab around the radiator pipes were "30 and ready to settle down" y'know. Wild building, I fucking miss it, so far ahead of its time in many ways yet so far behind in others. Would've been a good apartment to renovate if it weren't for someone being granted permission to build 3 massive blocks across the narrow one way street. Vertically, the sound insulation was horrid, but horizontally well I didn't believe I had neighbors on the floor, you could've told me the apartment over was empty and I'd believe it, to say the least. No idea how they managed that level of sound insulation in 1991.
>>2763719I'm in Finland and all houses are required to have like 30cm of foam. Houses in the countryside are also wood famed. Idk why people here say that's an American thing.>>2783654That's why we're also required to have forced air ventilation running 24/7 with heat exchangers nowadays. It makes winters a dry hell in new apartments. Indoor humidity hovers around 10% on very cold days. But I guess its better than mold.
>>2787461>Idk why people here say that's an American thingpicrel
>>2789397This person smugly wrote this from Europe and then turns around and writers about how they have no more land to build on and wonder why a block house costs $1mil
>>2763701Depends on the foam. Some foam is shit, while other foam is practically armor. I'd be fine with some sorts.
