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File: Kogan Iwamoto vs Sekiun.jpg (403 KB, 1024x730)
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Fencing beats Kendo 10/10 times in a real duel, right?
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>>93741
They’re both sporting styles based on historical swordsmanship not martial arts intended for dueling.
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>>93741
I've done HEMA with Katana and used kendo kata before while doing it. It mostly falls down to how quick you can move and close the gap between the long sword, how effectively you can parry them. If your asking with normal kendo and normal fencing then I'd say kendo would win mainly because you've got so many areas to score.
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From what I've read, Europeans usually got the better of Japanese in sword fights. This happened frequently in Asia where the native styles, for whatever reason, were not accustomed to the thrust and would often get done in by one. Not always though. Sometimes sailors would pick fights and get murdered. In general, European appraisement of kenjutsu wasn't very flattering though. They thought it was a bit unscientific. Not totally practical.

Jujutsu was always highly praised however. It was immediately clear that the crafty japs had some damn good grappling.
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>>93751
>This happened frequently in Asia where the native styles, for whatever reason, were not accustomed to the thrust

Buuuuuuuullshit. The entire basis of warfare in Asia was spear formations. Even up through WW2 the bayonet was the melee weapon issued to soldiers.
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>>93751
I remember hearing the opposite, the book "Swordsman of The British Empire" has quite a few sources where they spoke very highly of Japanese swordsmen. They recommended things like carrying pistols to deal with them and mentioned that sometimes even that wasn't enough.
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>>93781
This, but you should keep in mind that at that point in history swords were a supplementary weapon for the English whereas many samurai were still expected to live and die by their swords, so training time is a factor.
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>>93779
Talking about swords m8. Obviously every spear thrusts. The trend I noticed is that thrusting swords were hard for a lot of Asian swordsmen to deal with. I would say there is sufficient difference between how you might fight a spear user vs a sword user that if you're expecting limited thrusting ability from a sword, you could get caught off guard.

>>93781
Haven't read that one. Although I did see a Matt Easton video where he talked about it and that sort of reinforced my own perception that thrusting swords posed a problem in Asia. I did read a few books about the transition to the Meiji era though and what few times the Japanese and Euros fought, the European commanders seem to have cleaned up and dismissed the fighting ability of the Japanese. A huge part of that was tech difference I'm sure. And like I mentioned, there are accounts of Japanese swordsmen being extremely dangerous. I'm not saying they weren't skilled. It just seems to me that your typical rapier-like blade is superior for unarmored opponents. I'm not some HEMA guy with an anti-weeb hardon for the record. I have weeb tendencies if anything. This is just my perception.

Obviously there's a huge difference in skill from the real thing, but I think sparring footage bears this out a bit. You can look on youtube for rapier vs katana and the squared off stance and shorter blade from the Japanese stylist seems to have a hard time getting past the rapier's point. The katana guy needs to commit way more.
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I'm not a martial artist or anything so I don't really know much, but how could a samurai even avoid being skewered in that duel? Those rapier thrusts are lightning fast.
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>>93796
The same way you do in rapier vs rapier, binding and commanding the blade. A curved sword can do some stuff that a straight can't in a bond so there's always that.
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>>93781
Two different eras, m88. SBE covers the 19th century whereas Anon >>93751 is talking about pre-sakoku encounters between mainly Portuguese, using rapiers, and samurai with tachi and sengoku-period uchigatana. The 19th century swordsmen did indeed have problems with Japanese swordsmen, firstly because they were effectively using the same weapon one-handed and secondly because they trained much less on average due to Europe transitioning to pistols and so didn't know how to cope (one-handed lunge-recover footwork sabre can actually be quite advantageous against a sabre wielded two-handed but most of the Europeans didn't know how to do this), but the Portuguese had long rapiers and lived in a time of widespread sword fighting, and were able to BTFO Japanese fighters pretty consistently, to the point where the Japanese supposedly developed a special, longer, thrustier kind of sword to cope with the goddamn cheating nanbans.
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>>93741
In fact, no. This is about an exhibition match rather than a real duel but it's to the point.
https://martialartsnewyork.org/2015/02/02/jigen-ryu-swordsmanship-by-a-new-york-city-based-japanese-kenjutsu-master-1903/
While it says kenjutsu, what he was practicing was a form of gekiken, the predecessor of modern Kendo with very similar rules and equipment.
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>>93818
In the story you mention at the end, which I would caution is a bit of oral history, the Japanese just had lighter swords with a false edge made, because their war swords were to heavy. They managed to win with lighter blades.

The source also describes the Europeans using rapiers, but it talks about them using cut and thrust tactics, specifically a parry and cut action which a heavy sword wasn't able to keep up with.
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>>93741
Both are stylized forms of their parent arts, with European fencing deviating further from the source material and playing into the "sport" factor much more than Kendo. This is especially evident in the way that strikes are scored.

Fencing is concerned with who gets the touch first, making lunges and attacks that are almost irrecoverable from. Kendo is judged by 3 referees who look to see if a strike meets the criteria for being "valid", taking into account of opportunity, technique, display of spirit, cutting with the correct edge of the "blade" and portion of the blade, and a continued awareness after the fact (which is completely absent in oly fencing).

That all said, Kendo was never used in a duel because its the modernization of Kenjutsu to be used as a means for character cultivation. However, the ruleset Kendo has put in place allows for a closer representation of swordplay than oly fencing.
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>>94019
> Fencing is concerned with who gets the touch first
Not true, you need to acquire “right of way” before you score a touch (except in epee when both fencers can score a touch in a single pass).

Originally, the concept of right of way I believe was a way to prevent double hits. In essence, having right of way means to be the first person to initiate an attack, not necessarily being the first one to land one. This encourages a fencer to deal with an incoming attack rather than attacking into an attack even if they are faster, at least in theory. Obviously modern fencing has evolved in such a way that fencers are encouraged to fight suicidally despite the original goal of this principle.

I should also point out that electric scoring requires a the same amount of pressure necessary to pierce skin in order to be scored. Not a high standard for a valid thrust but it is a standard nonetheless.
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generally bet on the longer weapon. Rapiers are the pinnacle of dueling swords. as metalworking got better longer slender swords were the most effective for Unarmored fights. The rapier became basically the equivalent to a glock for the renaissance.

fencers don't use rapiers but katanas are notoriously short.

In reality though I would expect a lot of double hits. fencing has evolved away from combat sim and includes a lot of suicidal lunges because scoring is all about first touch.nnmpj
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>>93741
yes
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>>93749
Lies.
>>93741
Yeah, like rock beats paper.
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>>93741
>Fencing beats Kendo 10/10 times in a real duel, right
>arnis stick fighting fuk both them up
>take broomstick
>break it in half
>have arnis sticks
>fencing master remembers he left his toothpick at home
Need I say more?
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>>93741
>smallsword
Pokes, makes a small hole. If fight is to the death rather than the touch, opponent only dies in the next few minutes
>sabre, tulwar, katana
Swings, opponent is missing a hand and pissing blood everywhere, immediately drops as blood pressure bottoms out, nothing personnel kid
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>>97147
> opponent only dies in the next few minutes
Not if you stab them in the heart
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Who cares? Practice the sword style you actually enjoy. Plus you’re retarded if you actually think a certain style beats the other every single time.
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>>93741

There are people in my hema club that come from both disciplines and both get consistent hits and double hits as far as athleticism and technique is concerned and both get beaten the fuck out by the more experience hemaists.
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you guys are dumb fags
>hema faggots saying anything
lmao shut the fuck up and sit down you fake shitters

there's been one (1) officially recorded duel between the styles with real steel, and guess what? both idiots died because they both got cut to shit
like knife fighting with bigger knives, even if you win you're probably getting cut up if the other dudes isn't a clown

also if you're a hema faggot go learn some fucking judo you greasy twig faggots
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>>97318
>people more experienced in HEMA "win" exchanges as defined by HEMA rules
Wow, water is wet.
>>97284
>>97389
Are the only two posts in this thread worth reading. Swordfighting and swordplay is so far removed from the environment of practicality that nothing being taught today is "real" sword fighting. Learning from old pictures and practicing them with your LARPing community with does not make you legitimate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAPwMrDGAfE
As shitty as this channel is, this video adequately answers OP's question. Doesn't matter what style you choose, it's entirely up to the individual.
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>>93750
>If your asking with normal kendo and normal fencing then I'd say kendo would win mainly because you've got so many areas to score.
Dont all three fencing subtypes offer more places to hit then Kendos head wrist or chest?
>>97147
stabs are statistically way more deadly then slashes, even over short periods of time. slashes tend not to inflict as serious of wounds on a attackper attack basis.



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