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Truly the most beautiful art edition.

>What is HEMA?
HEMA stands for Historical European Martial Arts, sometimes also called Historical Fencing.
It's reconstructing how to fight with swords, daggers, polearms and other weapons based on old European fighting treatises

>What does it look like?
Inside the World of Longsword Fighting - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zueF4Mu2uM
Back to the source - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DBmNVHTmNs
Martin Fabian Sparring - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8QlbKfX84k

>Where can I find these treatises?
https://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Main_Page
https://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Category:Weapons

>Where can I find HEMA clubs near me?
https://www.hemaalliance.com/club-finders
https://hroarr.com/train/clubs-gear/club-finder/
https://ifhema.com/ifhema-members/

Last thread: >>81003
>>
Starting Longsword next Sunday
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>>93444
Ok
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>>93489
Yep
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>>93386
best wooden wasters to get for solo practice indoors in europe? One handed preferably.
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>>93444
kevin nash got a long sword back in 1992
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>>93491
Why wood? Synthetics are better in every way
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>>93386
This weird guy named John Clements came by my club recently bragging and claiming that he was the founder/creator of HEMA, anyone ever heard of him? He seems like a hack fraud and a all-around scumbag.
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>>93653
He's just a stale meme
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favorite weapon/school?
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>>93724
There are so many of these "evolutionary tree" pictures for historical items and they're always completely fucking retarded
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>>93731
Answer the question
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>>93724
Yeah, damn, this one's particularly retarded. You weren't kidding, >>93731.
>>
Pike Armory's meyer rapier is only 160 euros, that seems too good to be true. Anyone have any experience with one of these?
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>>94024
Pike is shit from beginning to end, dude.
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Is red dragon armory any good? They have a longsword + scabbard combo for $300 incl tax and shipping
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>>94298
If not Pike Armory where can I get a decent Meyer sidesword then? I haven't heard much good from Kvetun's Meyer sidesword
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>>94302
I don’t know anything about their swords but my club has a rule agains using their protective equipment because it’s so shitty it will get you injured. I can’t imagine their weapons are much better.
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>>94343
Malleus is the best as noted in the previous thread, Kvetun and Bloss are mid tier. That said I confused Pike with Poker before; Poker is run by a turbo retard, the main problem with Pike is you won't actually get your shit since he's in Russia.
>>
The definitive guide to who does what style:
>Plebs:
KDF in general
>LARPers:
Fiore
>Geriatric LARPers:
I.33
>Retards:
Anything British
>Hipsters:
Bolognese (and adjacent sources), Vadi
>The Unathletic:
Destreza
>Homosexuals:
Fabris
>Olympic fencing rejects:
Capo Ferro, Giganti, Agrippa, etc.
>>
>>94024
Idk anything about the quality or suchlike but Pike's Meyer rappier doesn't have a schilt, which isn't ideal if Meyer is what you want. Doesn't seem to be a selectable option either.

>>94478
On that note: who does Meyer?
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>>94480
>On that note: who does Meyer?
Well since Meyer is KDF with Bolognese influence, that means they're simultaneously plebs and hipsters.
>>
>>94478
>Olympic fencing rejects:
>Capo Ferro, Giganti, Agrippa, etc.
Did you mean Alfieri here? Agrippa is very different from the big 3 lungy bois, closer to Bolognese in some ways. Also I've never heard of anyone doing Agrippa, which makes doing so seem like a big intra-hipster power move.
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>>94472
there's a bit of a bloody discrepency with the costs between Kvetun, Pike and Bloss.
If Bloss is only mid-tier their stuff costs as much as a malleus so that doesnt seem worth it at all.
I get that a bigger price tag probably means higher quality, I was looking for something of a budget option.
So I guess ultimately kvetun seems like the best bet for a budget option?
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>>94478
French smallsword bros win yet again!
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>>93653
Suq his dick to establish superiority over him since he's talkin mad shit
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What's the point of a schilt? I know they afford extra protection to your hands but in a modern context with gauntlets bring required to practice, wouldn't you want to learn how to fence without having to rely on them?
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>>94804
Feder blades are very narrow compared to most sharp blades (some of which could be absurdly wide and thus provide a ton of hand protection), so a schilt compensates for that. Of course, you could argue that only smooth schilts like the SIGI concept really simulate this properly.
There are also historical examples of sharp swords with schilts, by the way
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>>94806
Neat. But with modern advances on metallurgy, is it not possible to produce safe blades with a comparable weight and wideness?
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>>94808
The schilted feder is always going to be cheaper. You can get decently wide sparring swords, they just cost more.
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>>94578
>So I guess ultimately kvetun seems like the best bet for a budget option?
Pretty much, yeah. But to be totally desu, you get what you pay for in regards to sword quality, and you'd probably be better off saving up until you can just afford the Malleus. Especially since Kvetun moving their whole operation to Georgia means that their delivery times are a madhouse right now. Not that Malleus are noted for extreme production speed but like... you'll be waiting for awhile either way as it seems.
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>>94804
>>94808
Feders vs. longsword blunts is a long-standing debate in HEMA, you're not going to get any clear-cut consensus from here. The reason feders are standard in HEMA is ultimately because they're what was actually used by period fencers, not because of inability to make swords.

(I will say that *in general* it's usually newer people who want more realistic-looking swords, because they want things to look cool like in their live-action Western animus, so there's a tendency for blunts to be the noob option while feders conversely have a bit of an air of "serious dedicated historical fencer" who's past caring about appearances and minds his technique instead. There's not a lot of real basis for it, but that's how it's often seen, just so you know.)
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>>94808
Wider blade means thinner edges if you want to keep mass the same. Narrow blade lets you get away with thicker edges while keeping mass down.
>>
What’s a melee weapon that you don’t need HEMA training to use effectively?
>>
>>94841
Machete baseball bat hammer big fuck off knife etc.
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>>94825
It's more that I'd like a budget option to explore the form with, if it ends up not being what I thought it was it's not as much of a financial cost. Ideally I'l end up with a very kit for each discipline, but I won't know what I want till I've tried stuff.
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>>94826
a good explanation. Personally I'd be more interested in having the width of the blade to emulate the real deal as closely as possible but I understand safety concerns take priority.
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>>94841
Using a melee weapon effectively means grasping and being able to apply knowledge about measure and tempo. Except some weird chain weapons and some specific weapons and combos like greatswords or double swords, no weapons is specifically hard to use to good effect. HEMA and martial arts in general needed complex systems because they were selling it, so at some point you have to be sophisticate because there's not a lot of people who just want to do endless distance and timing exercise around the 3-4 core blows.

Knife is easy to use effectively, the main issue is getting there assuming equal opposition. Longsword, spear, any light two-handed weapon is relatively easy. Unbalanced weapons like all sorts of clubs are actually harder to use effectively because you need to take into account that they have poor recovery, though it doesn't really matter if the other person has less weaponry.
The real question would be, what are you using it against, what context, what situation. There's not a lot of weapons that are particularly complex to learn to a basic level of efficiency, then it's all about polishing the basics. If you have great sense of timing and measure, all you need really is to deliver a good downward blow and a good ascending thrust.

tl;dr spear or two-handed sword, endless measure drills.
>>
>>94862
>It's more that I'd like a budget option to explore the form with
Desuistically, the actual shape of the Meyer rappier isn't really needed or even important for this; it's explicitly a trainer, like his dussack or any feder. You'd be better off getting a good-quality regular sidesword, or just a stick, if you don't know what you like and just want to explore the form. Meyer expected you to use a normal sidesword with his techniques in a real fight anyway, not have a special one made that looks like a sharp version of his trainer – just as he expected you to fight dussack with a real dussack.

Plus, getting a shabby trainer might put you off the form because you unfairly attribute problems with the former to the latter. If you just use a broom handle or something you're actually *more* likely to realize that the trainer might be the issue and not the technique.

TL;DR don't spend any money at all on a style you don't even know whether you like, if you can help it.
>>
>>94866
I think two reasonably fit dudes with no real combat experience can reach a respectable level of spear proficiency sparring in their backyard with rubber-tipped rattan spears. Spear is so direct and simple with few frills. Plus easy to learn, hard to master.
>>
>>94869
when you say regular sidesword, what do you mean? I got a kvetun no.1 and I thought it was more of a bolognese design. I wanted to look for a Meyer one hoping the blade was a bit more suitable for cutting since the Kvetun no.1 really feels more adapted for thrusting.
>not have a special one made that looks like a sharp version of his trainer
as in as wide as a sharp and without a schilt? Cause I'd kind of want that though I imagine that might not be feasible for a budget option.
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>>94841
Every melee weapon. There are other fighting systems other the ones that make HEMA, the fundamentals are the same everywhere anyway. You can even make up your own system.
>>
Almost everyone in the local scene is either retarded, autistic, "that kid" or a retarded older boomer. I'm very close to leaving for good even though I love fencing and swords.
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>>95024
develop some competence and set up your own club
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>>95024
This is true for any martial art centered around swords Im not sure what you were expecting. Back when I was sport fencing everyone was an autistic nerds too, don’t let the MoF guys on 4chan fool you into thinking they’re higher athletes.

Haven’t done kendo or iaido but I’d wager it’s the same for them swords equals autism.
>>
Is hema practiced by most practitioners truly hema? It seems so much focus is on testing out new moves in live combat and conpeting. Its hardly like something like kenjutsu which is a historical martial art. It seems most hema practitioners are more concerned with fighting with w rather than learning historical sword fighting tequniques. Just because they ate fighting with historical weapons dies not mean they are practicing a historical martial art. And just because something might work in live combat does not mean you are discovering historical practices. Does this not bother anyone else? If you are using a moves that are not found in any historical tome, you arent practicing hema.
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>>95172
If you see it working in competition it’s probably in a manual somewhere. That said we can’t truly know if people are practicing “the right way” because these arts have no direct lineage and are being reconstructed.
>>
>>95172
YoU'rE jUsT eNvIoUs BeCaUsE iT wOrKs
>>
Hypothetical here: what if myself and a friend learned sabre entirely from a manual (like Roworth). Unlike treatises, military sabre manuals were intended to teach basic techniques to new recruits or young officers. Would we approach the skill level of a regular soldier if we consistently practiced and sparred?
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>>95172
Its a reconstruction. There is no living lineage, and any one manual probably only gives a limited selection of everything a master knew. Studying a manual isn't comparable to actually training under said master.

There are certainly people concerned with how close modern footwork is to the original, or frog DNA taken from various arts outside hema, but many don't consider these issues as long as the techniques work under pressure, and since sparring and competition are the main focus for most I have my doubts that many would trade off a proven method in that venue for an unproven method that might be closer to what was done in the historical period.
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>>94478
What's wrong with Fiore?
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>>95200
Soldiers had instructors other than the manuals, you don't
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>>95176
>If you see it working in competition it’s probably in a manual somewhere.
That's really not how you do a historical reenactment of anything, in fact it's the complete opposite, it's beyond anachronism.

Now there's nothing wrong with inventing moves, are just making shit up as you go along, but it's not historical practice, not any sort of experimental anything, thus not "HEMA".
Not like I care that much if you don't want to read and try to adhere to the spirit of texts, but then...
>>
>>95200
As the other said, you need someone who has instruction to actually raise you to any sort of proper standing. Two neophytes won't become better that organically because you have zero frame of reference, you don't know anything about where you're supposed to go. At best you'll become excellent at fighting one another, but the idea that two newbies becoming good by sparring together is really not how instruction has ever been going anywhere. What are you going to do if you don't even have someone to correct your errors, it's very hard to see when you don't know where to look.

Probably try to do some foil in a club an then learn sabre if you're really keen on it.
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>>95226
Name a “move” you see working in competition that doesn’t have a historical foundation you autist. Be specific instead of vaguely saying everyone’s doing it wrong.
>>
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i wanna do hema but the local club meets when i go to zen, and it's real zen in a tiny temple full of old people who actually care and try, not like some whole foods yoga sort of thing, so i wanna stick with it
i guess i can try kendo instead, but i don't even watch anime
how do you guys feel about kendo
>>95082
yeah we get the weeb variant of the autismos
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>>95226
Might as well call boxing a historical western martial art. A historical boxing sport would be different from what boxing is today. Using what works would not be historical. Its only historical if you are recreating what was done in the past.
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>>95247
Kendo is to kenjutsu as sport fencing is to HEMA. That’s not a bad thing mind you just know what you’re getting in to. Also iirc there’s a Japanese sword arts general on this board so you’re probably better off asking them.
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>>95249
that thread is one (1) year old and i wanted hema people thoughts but yea ok ty
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>>95248
Boxing is a historical art and the only difference is just the ruleset Same as your gay hema rulesets. All the good clubs aren't doing hema they train for the rules and competitions.
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>>95229
This is not how the burden of proof works if you want to call it "historical". If you don't care about historicity but only competition efficiency, go for whatever works, but I'd agree that it's less and less HEMA and more like... some new sort of modern fencing really. There's nothing wrong with that.

>>95248
Boxing isn't a "historical wma" because there's no real breaking of lineages from the early pugilist days. It's absolutely a typical martial arts that got through modernization so that "traditional" is a bit weird to say. It's just like modern fencing really, it certainly changed from the time of Labat and Liancour, but it's easy to draw the lines. Not "historical", just a living martial art.
>>
>>95247
Kendo is great if you're looking for an art that trains character, mental fortitude, discipline, is fairly vigorous and uses the sword to do all that. It's not a practical fighting method, wasn't made to be, never was (even with the kendo no kata), but it's certainly a great discipline if you're serious about training.
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>>95266
cool that sounds about like what i'm looking for ty
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>>95265
>HEMA competition techniques aren’t historical
>ok which ones?
>I DONT HAVE TO ANSWER THAT YOU HAVE TO PROVE ME WRONG FOR LITERALLY EVERYTHING THAT IS TRAINED
ok retard
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>>95284
I think he is saying hema guys train a hodgepodge of techniques without rigorously adhering to a single style or manual, and emphasizing what works in competition over more literal interpretations of the source material.

Not agreeing btw just trying to parse out his thoughts, and to be honest some hema guys do complain about some of those things to a certain degree.
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>>95266
>buzzwords to make kendo seem special when this is what any decent MA does
lol
>not a practical fighting method
it teaches striking mechanics pretty efficiently, longsworders could take notes
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>>95284
>>95308
Reading (sources) is hard, I know.
I'm not saying that "HEMA competition techniques aren't historical" but that saying "if it's done in competition and it works, it's probably in a manual somewhere" is absolutely not how history is done or how studying a historical practice is and should be done. If the martial side of HEMA is more important to you than the historical aspect, then indeed who cares?

And no, I indeed don't have to tell you because you can't prove a negative, it's you who have to show me in a source that the technique you use is historical. Not for me to review all the techniques and study all the sources to discover it's NOT there. Like... just look at what the "burden of proof" literally is, how and why it was developped.

It's beyond "not rigorously adhering to a single style or manual", it's literally making shit up as you go along. It's doing stuff without caring if it's in any way relevant with any sort of style philosophy and methodology that is congruent to a historical source. Let's say you're doing rapier but throwing 90% cuts, is it historical? Well the techniques might be, but this is really not how the masters would want you to fight. What if it works? Check the opposition then, but indeed it's for them to prove that you shouldn't do that so probably keep going. Thinking that competition is the holy grail of a historical practice and a proving ground is completely silly. But competition is indeed the holy grail of performance and efficiency. Again, it all comes down to what you choose to put the emphasis on, is it a historical practice and recreation or a competitive martial art? What is the sense of each in our modern era where swordfighting is pretty much completely and entirely useless as a practical skill.

"Historicity" and efficiency have nothing to do with one another. Plenty of historical techniques have nothing to do with being efficient, especially "efficient" according to our modern principles.
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>>95321
>it teaches striking mechanics pretty efficiently, longsworders could take notes
Striking maybe, but at cutting it's atrociously shit, always was, that's why they had to create a separate thing (gunto no soho) for the army and navy, because they realized that the officers who had only studied kendo couldn't fight and couldn't cut people with their swords.
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>>95325
> saying "if it's done in competition and it works, it's probably in a manual somewhere" is absolutely not how history is done or how studying a historical practice is and should be done. If the martial side of HEMA is more important to you
God you’re fucking stupid. I said that specifically because we learn our techniques FROM the manuals. So even if you see something you don’t recorgnize, he probably LEARNED it from a manual some where. Is that more clear you pedantic retard?
> And no, I indeed don't have to tell you because you can't prove a negative, it's you who have to show me in a source that the technique you use is historical
And how exactly am I supposed to do that when you WONT FUCKING TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK IS AHISTORICAL. Am I supposed to review every piece of tournament footage and break down every single movement ever used just to satisfy you specifically?
> it's literally making shit up as you go along. It's doing stuff without caring if it's in any way relevant with any sort of style philosophy and methodology that is congruent to a historical source
Who is doing this? How do you know? You’re such a fucking faggot throwing out accusations then saying “nuh uh burden of proof says you have to prove me wrong”
>Let's say you're doing rapier but throwing 90% cuts, is it historical?
Who does this? Also cutting is a part of Rapier
>but this is really not how the masters would want you to fight
So what? Do you think everyone who studied under “the masters” fought in the exact same way? Do you think all the masters agreed on the best way to fight? Why don’t YOU read some of those manuals since you give such a fuck about history. 90% of them involve shit talking and saying everyone is doing it wrong except for me.
> Plenty of historical techniques have nothing to do with being efficient
Lmao, most do though and you’d know that if you studied HEMA at all.

This is you by the way, minus actually training.
https://youtu.be/oLC23s3gq50
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>>94955
>when you say regular sidesword, what do you mean?
Any regular finger-ring type sword of the sort common in the 16th century, for example literally any Malleus product. You can't really call these "Bolognese" since they were ubiquitous throught Europe in this period – including Germany.

>I wanted to look for a Meyer one hoping the blade was a bit more suitable for cutting since the Kvetun no.1 really feels more adapted for thrusting.
That's fair, Meyer's rappier material expects a sword that cuts as well as it thrusts, no arguing that.

>as in as wide as a sharp and without a schilt? Cause I'd kind of want that
Either you badly misunderstood me or I don't understand you: I'm saying that Meyer's rappier as depicted in his treatise is explicitly a training tool, like all the other training weapons he shows. "Real" swords with a hilt shape like the Meyer rappier effectively did not exist (although a scant few pieces come close) and he himself therefore did not expect you to use his techniques in earnest with a sword that resembles his training rappier, *therefore* you'd be fine just using any reasonably cutty sidesword to train Meyer and do not need to purchase a sword especially for it, so you don't need to spend money on a budget version and can invest that money in getting one single higher quality sidesword instead.

>Cause I'd kind of want that though I imagine that might not be feasible for a budget option.
Also this is a completely baffling comment to me because in that case the Pike Meyer sidesword is exactly what you want, a Meyer hilt on a "sharp-styled" blade at a budget price. Evidently it isn't unfeasible; in fact I would suspect that the Pike Meyer model has the wrong blade because it's easier and *less* expensive. Your only problem is your likely total inability to buy it due to Putin fucking your shit up. Still, that type of sword doesn't have any particular advantage in practicing Meyer rappier.
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>>95172
It doesn't exactly bother me but you're not wrong. In America especially, a lot of HEMA is just nerds wanting to fight with swords and not giving a fuck about what they're doing, with the expected Shad-tier results. The average level of HEMA is extremely low and knowledge of the sources is poor, let alone understanding of and adherence to them. Any given sparring video will show you this beyond the need for words.

That said, there *are* people doing good work to a high level as well so realistically this is just the same problem as McDojos in eastern martial arts; find a good club and don't fixate on tournaments, which are almost all run by ignoramuses using bad judges to adjudicate bad rules.
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>>95337
>"Real" swords with a hilt shape like the Meyer rappier effectively did not exist
patently false
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>>95339
This type of hilt was quite common, especially those that only have a sort of vestigial finger ring like this one
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>>95338
>tournaments bad, judges bad,rules bad
Ok loser
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>>95340
Some Dussack and Katzbalger hilts are also very similar, by the way.

>>95338
>find a good club and don't fixate on tournaments
In my experience clubs with tournament success generally have people who work well with the sources too. Even if their best competitive fencers don't give much of a shit about sources, their nerds still massively benefit from having a decent training regime, proper hard sparring and a way to properly pressure test their interps.
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>>95343
Rappieresque Katzbalger (the blade's quite short though)
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>>95343
Same here. I can’t think of a single club I know that sucks shit at tournaments but it somehow super good with the source material.

It’s almost like the historical shit actually works.
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>>95346
>Same here. I can’t think of a single club I know that sucks shit at tournaments but it somehow super good with the source material.

>It’s almost like the historical shit actually works.
I'd say it's more the case that you need a certain level of physical fitness and fencing skills to understand what the fuck you're reading.
On the other hand, just because your club is effective in competition, doesn't mean they work with the sources much at all, especially because with the most popular competitive weapons, everyone already knows the high percentage shit anyway.
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>>95341
>t. Shad

>>95343
When I wrote "don't fixate on tournaments", what I meant was, "don't fixate on tournaments". Not that it's forbidden or that sparring with intent is useless, just that conflating tournament success with good technique or a good club is foolish and counterproductive.
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>>95337
I thought you were talking about having a weapon made to resemble his trainers. I didn't think Pike Armory was an accurate representation of such a weapon since if it's as wide as a sharp blade but doesn't taper, it 'd be significantly heavier than the real, sharp equivelant, no? getting the shape and weight right while still keeping it safe to fence with seem like it'd be hard is all.

Still, I don't see how Meyer expected you to fence with a more common sidesword. It's been a bit since I went through the translated text I had but doesn't he tell you to allign your thumb with the blade? that's totally different from the pistol grip kind of way you'd hold a sidesword with cuilons to protect your finger.
Additionally, the kvetun no1. hilt feels very flat, not something you'd hold with a more traditional hammer grip. The lack of any real heft to the blade was my first reason to keep looking, but the shape of the grip was a close second.
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>>95357
>just that conflating tournament success with good technique or a good club is foolish and counterproductive
The absolute state of this “martial art”
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>>95403
These are the same losers that talk hard about "bringing out the sharps" when they get embarrassed anon. They are too funny.
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>>95403
>>95405
>burgatroyds
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>>94804

No because hema has become a competition of fags and the extra hand protection means one less scored hit to your hand.

Besides, nobody fences like they probably did back then, because we use full protection and take a lot more risks and moves they otherwise wouldnt have made.
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>>94343

Landsknecht Emporium and Mac Armour CZ (these have comissioned a 11/10 repro)
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>>95337

And real swords in the shape of olympic fencing dont exist, what is your point?

Why do you think all fencing swords have to be a repro are you stupid? They had dedicated fencing swords even from antiquity when romans trained with wooden swords that somewhat resembler gladii. Federschwerts are dedicated fencing swords, and there are spanish fencing rapiers of the XVI and XVII centuries that dont resemble sharp rapiers of the time.
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>>95267

Kendo is based insofar is a top tier sport and martial art. It has almost nothing to do with HEMA, and in fact is a polar opposite, where HEMA is disorganized, full of out of shape sweaty nerds and nobody knows what they're doing, and Kendo has a very long history and tradition.

If you go the way of Kendo, it helps a lot in HEMA. Kendo guys get hit a lot because there are no long exchanges or parries but that's just the nature of the sport.
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>>95082
>>95025

The thing is my club is top tier HEMA and they're genuinely very good, perhaps the best in my country.

It's just that I get burnt off by having to be around them and engage in their retarded conversations and oppinions. I'm not even a loner I'm liked and I get along with everyone.
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>>95249
>Kendo is to kenjutsu as sport fencing is to HEMA
This is a bad parallel to make because it simply isn't true. Kendo is a martial art that uses sporting elements for competition, oly fencing is a sport. Both have different focuses and both score their matches differently. Kendo is closer to competitive HEMA in the way that it scores hits - and it may even be more strict about what it considered a valid strike.
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>>95458
>the Meyer rappier is explicitly a training tool, not many sharp swords of that design existed
>Why do you think all fencing swords have to be a repro are you stupid?
NAYRT but are you retarded Anon? Do you have blinkus of the thinkus?
>>
I ran into mac-armour.cz looking for protective kit, this stuff looks pretty good. Any thoughts, experiences?
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>>95603

They look promising, I like their shitter bucklers I might get them. The problem with those protections is, you no longer would be doing naked fencing, you'd be doing armored fencing, which isnt the same. It doesnt make a lot of sense to be in full plastic harness just to protect yourself from blows, say, in a tournament, because you'd be equipped for armored fencing that ignores 99% of regular HEMA hits to the body and is more blunt strikes and halfswording for stabs.

I talked to them and they plan to eventually do a full armour, which is nice for poorfags but steel will always be superior.
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>>95610
That's fine, in just looking for protective, light kit to spar in with my club. I don't really see the point of insisting on not wearing "plate" armor if it doesnt affect how you move or how your opponent can hit you though.
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>>95610
This is silly. Just because your hard protectors look like armor, that doesn't mean that you *are armored* according to some cosmic principle now and you have to use harnischfechten. They're just regular hard protectors made to look cooler.

>>95603
The main flaw IMO is how extremely expensive they are. Even Leon Paul isn't judaical enough to charge €100 for a chest protector.
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>>95614
I don't see a hard breastplate on his website though. Also, i imagine a lot of the costs for for the arm stuff comes from the articulation. But that's exactly what I've been looking for. Seeing people unable to full lift their arms or fighting their jackets or plates down onto their jackets got me looking for something that allows more of a range of movement
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>>95661
>I don't see a hard breastplate on his website though.
Really? https://www.mac-armour.cz/p/chest-protector
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>>95662
I'm referring to Leon Paul, as comparison to Mac's breastplate
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>>95663
Oh, I see. https://www.leonpaul.com/mens-masterguard.html then.
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>>95664
Ah yes, those things. I can't say i think they compare though. The Mac one looks like it covers more and looks thicker, and it looks like it can be ordered with an additional ridge against thusts. Just going by appearances Mac's breastplate looks significantly more protective
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Malleus has a new, more dedicated Meyer rapier
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>>95680

I dislike how sporty their stuff looks, and some historical stuff is outright horrendous.
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>>95611

It does affect how you move though, and you're fucked in any "competitive" tournament because even light touches make a loud sound, which means your rival scores one hit regardless if he hit you good or not.
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>>95709
I can imagine how a breastplate design like that would really limit your movement any more than any other hard protection though.
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Can I be competitive in HEMA at 5’9”-10” height?
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>>95750
No dude is you’re not at least 6’7” it’s over for you. In fact all of life is outside your reach. Just close yourself off from the world and become a NEET
>>
What is YOUR favorite piece of kit?
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>>95750
There’s a lot of competitive HEMA fighters in that height range
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whats a good site to order swords from in germany?
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>>95338
Can someone redpill me on Shad, Skall, and Metatron? They make their literal careers out of being HEMA experts apparently but whenever I watch any of their videos it's a bunch of autistic rambling and literal backyard Kairo Seijuro spins and twirling.
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>>96195
None of them are HEMA experts. Shad prides himself knowing bits and pieces of HEMA techniques and making the rest up as he goes. Skall has actual HEMA experience but he’s not an expert or anything. Skall knows a lot of historical stuff though. I know nothing about Metatron.
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>>96195
> They make their literal careers out of being HEMA experts apparently but whenever I watch any of their videos it's a bunch of autistic rambling and literal backyard Kairo Seijuro spins and twirling.
Sounds like you already figured them out. They’re retards.
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>>96195
They aren't HEMA experts. Shad and Metatron never even practised actual HEMA it to my knowledge, while Skallagrim was in a HEMA club for a while but quit again because he's fat and unhealthy. Metatron "spars", but it seems to be in a re-enactment context, and has done Kendo in the past afaik (I've only seen a few of his videos), while Shad's done fuckall.
Metatron behaves in a cringy manner (also known as "being Italian"), but from what I understand he's actually quite solid and has an actual research background. From what I've seen Shad just makes shit up, but he's made one or two genuinely decent videos simply because actual researchers in a particular field (such as J.G. Elmslie with falchions) called him out on his bullshit and practically handed him a script to correct his nonsense.
I don't know much about Skallagrim other than he does a lot of test cutting, because something about him is viscerally disgusting.
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>>96265
Skall is THE go-to guy for vendors to get to review their products. His quotes and sword reviews are literally all over KOA and Swords of the east where they ship him free shit to review. The dude thinks he's legit a master swordsman and scoffs at almost everyone who isn't in his circle of out of shape tournament dodgers. For example Skall shits on self taught people and yeah...I can see it but SKALL IS SELF TAUGHT HIMSELF and so are his buddies since they were all kicked out of their club for being lazy fat know it alls.

Metatron is a legit history youtuber who does alot of research and reenactment so even though he's cringe and his bottom teeth are a fucked up he atleast is within his depth and is honest about being more of a historian than a swordsman.

Shad once spent 20 mins crying and telling people to be nice to his friend and to support Sargon of Akkad(yes, the wouldn't rape you fat British Sargon). That alone proves he's room temp IQ.


All in all Metatron seems like a cool guy but Skall and Shad are fat backyard water jug cutters who think they know everything and make a profit off of bullshit peddling HEMA.
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>>96195
>>96265
>>96269
At least when it comes to Japanese stuff Metatron is not nearly as reliable as his reputation implies. Ive seen him repeat some popular but inaccurate myths. As for his training background, its certainly not long or in depth enough (from last I remember) to be considered more than a novice or dilettante.
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>>96269
>SKALL IS SELF TAUGHT HIMSELF
not true, he was in Blood and Iron
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>>96293
Something like this, Metatron should really read even just Karl Friday because some of the stuff he parrots is just pop-culture or "it came to me in a dream"-tier. It's also really not much for the what I've bothered to watch. There are plenty of excellent people to read about japanese martial arts, why would you bother with him when you have grown-ups like Amdur, Boylan or Bennett is beyond me.
Also didn't he associates with Antony Cummins at some point? This is an immediate nope if there was any.
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>>96337
Its actually funny that a number of self styled experts who failed to gain any traction with JSA communities tend to reach out of HEMA people seemingly to grow their audience. I don't think most of them gain much success since most HEMA people don't have a deep interest in the subject, but I do think they spread a good deal of misinformation.
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>>96306
That's even worse tho
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>>96466
Sean Franklin is pretty damn good and was still there at the time
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>>96518
Sean Franklin is middling at best. He's also rude and largely disliked.
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>>96554
What is it with Blood and Iron and being massive cunts all the time? Why can’t they just chill the fuck out?
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>>96554
>He's also rude and largely disliked.
Tell us about it...? I knew about Lee Smith but this is new.
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is bowie knife fighting considered hema?its usa but still western
the guy from the Neve Unarmed youtube channel seems to be an expert in western sword and knife methods
>post good bowie knife stuff
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>>96767
All knife stuff boils down to sneak on your enemy and shank the shit out of his major arteries. Otherwise runaway from a confrontation because you will get cut the fuck up.
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>>96769
Ok but what About sparring for fun with wooden bowie knives?
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>>96771
Just go on Grindr if you want to play grabass with another faggot.
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>>96767
Well first of all what are the sources?
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>>94478
what organization would you suggest looking into if i wanted to learn sword and shield? open to your profiling of me just the same.
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>>96782
I take comfort im knowing you would never Adress Me like that IRL
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>>96805
Would you cry if I did?
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>>96805
>>96812
Just fuck already
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>>96805
Lol what are you going to do about it fatty? Challenge me to a duel with sharps? okay Boomer it's your funeral. Ill pour out some Henny after I bury steel into your chest.
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>>96786
I think Bowie wrote something down, can't remember what though.
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>>96751
He talks about other instructors and club leaders behind their back and doesn't think it gets back to them. People in Europe smirk when you mention his name and then swiftly change the conversation topic.
Just general disgruntled nerd stuff.
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>>96195
Skall and Meta are asses, but harmless beyond that.

Shad, on the other hand, is a fucking snake in the grass. He's fairly good at it, given how many people call him 'charming' or 'good-natured'.
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>>96899
> Shad, on the other hand, is a fucking snake in the grass
I’ve only ever known him to be a retard, what makes him a snake? I heard he selectively edited his HEMA sparring video but I’ve never seen proof nor is it really necessary because he’s clearly fighting newbs and still looks like an uncoordinated bumblefuck.
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>>96899
>>96901
You guys are attributing way too much to YouTube D&D dweebs. Most of their content consists of “ugh Elden Ring isn’t historically accurate in their use of weapons”. Who actually gives a fuck.
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>>96902
he is the kinda guy that would popularize misconceptions like longswords weighting 40 kilos and it being impossible to get up when falling over in full armor though. its not a huge issue but it does keep screwing with people's perception
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>>96901
https://scholarvictoria.com/2021/07/24/lets-be-honest-about-hema-a-response-to-shadiversity/

Daniel Pope had some things to say about him here. Of note:

"When saying he doesn’t limit himself to foam swords he is yet again replaying the same video from 2017 of him fencing a young HEMA guy who had done an hour of longsword a week for a few months, and who was kind enough to agree to fence with him for fun on that day. This is an opponent he cherry picked, while declining to fence in a similar way with any of the more experienced fencers, or even reenactors, there."

Not necessarily the most damning thing ever, but still an interesting data point, especially when taking into account Shad's interactions with Dave Rawlings and nusensei.
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>>93386
I'm somewhat interested, but HEMA seems really expensive, how much gear would I have to start (and not just come once in gym clothes to try it then you have to buy xyz soon after) and how does the price for classes compare to other sports?
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>>97110
Usually, there is loaner gear but I recommend buying yourself a mask and jacket at least so you don't catch typhus and projectile vomit through a loaner mask during your first tournament. That said, it'll probably be ruled as a valid hit to the upper opening considering the caliber of judging going on.
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>>97110
You could start doing at least some light sparring with a synthetic, a mask (with back of the head protection) and gloves. Altogether that shouldn’t be too expensive and you can buy the rest as you go along. How expensive the sport is is sort of proportional to how many swords you want to buy once you have full protective kit. Full protective kit will probably run you about 800 dollars.
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>>97136
>Full protective kit will probably run you about 800 dollars.
Well shite that's way above my 2nd world budget. Thanks for your answers Anons.
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>>97110
>>97136
Superior Fencer kit 270USD + Regenyei feder 250EUR + Red Dragon mask 82EUR + SparringGloves 200-ishUSD

not very specific but that's about 800 bucks for a full starter kit. I donno if I'd wear it to any tournaments but it's fine for club sparring and learning. You don't have to buy it all at once either, you can do solo drills with just a steel feder and do paired drills at a controlled pace with a mask, gloves and sword.
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>>97148
Yup, that's way above my budget. Half of that would still be quite a lot for me.
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>>97151
understandable, but like I said, you dont need the full kit to get started. I brought my stuff over the span of 4 years.
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>>97107
Good read, my only criticism is him being too generous to shad. Just call him what by he is, a tubby sour grapes loser who doesn’t want to put in the work to actually be good, so instead he says his superior style that doesn’t compete against anyone is being gatekept from HEMA.
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>>93386
>Curtis, how should we try to learn more historical sword techniques?

>That is simple Lloyd. We should spar and see what works.
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What are these hats called? Are they literally just bycocks worn a certain way?
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>>95603
I'm gonna cop these for doing sca if they're hard enough
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Does anyone have any experience with the kvetun no 2 sidesword?
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>>93386
HEMA fags hate weight classes but they love stupid sparring rulesets to avoid their distinct lack of athleticism. I love nothing more than cracking some chump who is twice my weight at the same height with the hand guard, even if he cries and takes the foul.
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>>97863
>and everyone clapped
truly a hero of the people
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>>97866
How do you even hit 280 at 5'10"? Your entire concept of defense is just posture and basic arm placement. You are wide open and can't do anything about it.
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>>97867
>"didn't feel it"
>proceeds to smash your 140lbs twink ass
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>>97870
You feel every inch you fat bitch
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>>97871
no I don't lol maybe you should try not being a dyel and eat a sandwich, and I'll take your hits. At the end of the day, the kids section is over yonder. You can have fun there.
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>>97867
Lmao I was 140lb skinny shit in high school at 5’7”. What are you? King of the lanklets while still being under 6 ft? Imagine bragging about such embarrassing numbers.
>>
Hey HEMAfags, give a healthy BMI a chance.
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>>97932
Why would I do that? It's not like I have to catch up to my opponent ever.
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>>97970
As I approach immobility this thought gives me comfort
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> People complain I hit too hard
> I'm the only one with a decently realistic longsword, not a SIGI Spaghetti

What the fuck am I supposed to do? Should I just change clubs?
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>>96195
Skall is the best one of the three, he actually knows hema, but many of his newer vids are just content to generate clicks instead of his old videos about actual techniques. Metatron is fine, he has a backround in Kendo, so he at least knows something. Shad is an idiot who rambles on about things he does know nothing about.
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>>98565
Stop hitting so hard
>but it’s muh longsword
Then buy a cheap feder. Then when you realize it’s not the sword and that you’re grug swinging like a retard, stop hitting so hard.
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>>98565
control your weapon then, you should be able to hit hard to break through a defense while still landing a more gentle hit.
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>>97989
>>97970
Fatso, kys
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is striking allowed in hema? will i get points for kicking my opponent or are neckbeards gonna debate me that europeans never kicked historically
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>>98664
Generally speaking striking is allowed so long as it’s done with the goal of landing a scoring hit. For example, if you punch someone in order to set up a pommel strike, cut or take down that’s fine. If you front kick someone out of the ring that’s fine. What you can’t do is just Muay Thai kick someone in the leg over and over in order to hurt them since that doesn’t lead to a scoring hit.
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>>98729
So no
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>>98731
????

I’m literally telling you yes you can kick people so long as your next action is to try and cut them. If you don’t want to use a sword just go do kickboxing.
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>>98732
If I kick your knee and you blow a hamstring that sets up my next action. How is that hard to understand?
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>>98734
>trying to intentionally injure people in a fencing tournament with techniques you learned in another sport
You sound like a massive faggot. Real talk I know for a fact you’re the kind of retard who sucked too much ass to make it in mma but still wants to feel superior by trying to beat up on a bunch of sword nerds. I genuinely hope someone cracks your skull in the near future.
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>>98735
Wow, HEMA really is for overweight LARPers isn't it?
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>>98737
Yeah dude, you should leave the thread and not come back.
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>>95247
Kendo is like a tiger leaping in and out of bamboo to pounce upon an opponent. HEMA is more like a dragon swirling his tail and snapping before hiding behind scales.
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>>98743
This reads like a real ancient chinaman said it
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>>98737
Go and try that shit with sharps, or are you maybe too scared for that?
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>>98623
>>98585

What is the point of the "combat" aspect of it then? I dont train to larp at a comic con. I dont think it's my problem if they refuse to wear padded mask overlays etc...
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>>98664

No, why most HEMA is a larp for faggots and not a true representation of any form of "combat" training. And kicks to the groin, strikes, hilt strikes, tackles and chokes are all in fencing manuals, but neckbeards and fags will complain and say otherwise.

Even though Bohurt is a sport and a game I'm gaining more and more respect for them every day.
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>>98737

Most of the time, yes. In USA, UK and many globohomo european countries. In some it's actually taken seriously, like Poland and other Eastern Europe countries. I've found proficient fighters in the North as well, although they're all pretty tall and massive so maybe due to their strength and size not skill.

In my club the most proficient longsworder (fought with ease, super short longsword, moved beautifully) got fed up with the neckbeardness of 95% of the members and switched to Muay Thai or Kickboxing or whatever it is. That's how bad things are.

>>98739

This isnt reddit you fucking faggot.
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>>98939
>I dont train to larp at a comic con. I dont think it's my problem if they refuse to wear padded mask overlays etc...
It will be when noone will want to spar with you because you hit too hard. Do you even consider their own experience you grug? Do you realize you're "training" with actual people, not punching bags. What do you even train for!? Regardless of the answer, training for comic con is probably a better reason.
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>>98939
>what is the point of the combat aspect of judo if I can’t bring my tanto to the mat
>>98941
>why am I not allowed to kick people in the groin in mma when that’s a part of fighting
>>98942
Did you know that in Eastern Europe they focus on becoming proficient fencers and not proficient knee kickers in HEMA circles.

Thanks for convincing me guys, this board is inhabited by children. Let me know how cool you think it is to intentionally injure people when you have some injuries of your own you pasty non-participant faggots.
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>>98956
So you admit that HEMA is little more than fencing for fat people who pretend they are actually training in combat sports.
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>>98960
No I admit you’re too autistic to understand social decorum. I admit you’re too inexperienced to understand why people don’t want to break their own or your shit in a sparring match. Knowing how HEMA is just full of big pussies and your so badass though you should go to your local boxing club. Their rules of decorum are different. If you want to go full blast and hurt people they’ll be happy to oblige your attitude.
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>>98732
that anon wasnt me thanks for the helpful post
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>>98962

Social decorum? M8 if you're half assing your hits in any other combat sport you'd be shunned and reprimanded. You're admitting HEMA is for comic con larps
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>>98956

Kicks in the groin are frowned upon because most HEMA clubs are full of fat (or skeleton thin) neckbeards and misfits, not because it isnt historical or because they dont all wear groin protection (because they do). Yet another proof that the grognard is supposed to larp with the sword until he gets close to you but you arent supposed to kick him because of "social decorum".

What social decorum, nerd? Hitting wrong or badly isnt part of the social decorum of any actual combat sport. Respecting the opponent has nothing to do with half-assing what you do. Are you fat or mediocre at HEMA?
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>>98960
>HEMA is little more than fencing
yes, that's precisely the reason why I do it
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>>99054
>>99055
I'm not the anon you guys are replying to, but if you went into any combat sport or martial arts gym, be it MMA, Kendo, Muay Thai or whatever, and started to strike with full force at full speed during regular non-competition drills or sparring, you'd get kicked out immediately.
The only exception I can think of is Kyokushin Karate, but retards like you would probably try to clobber your training partner's head, so you'd get kicked out anyway.
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>>99057

The thing is, I'm not starting and I'm not sparring with noobs. Its widespread and everyone frowns upon actual fighting or kicks / grappling, even in free bouts (we have full days of those).

There are like two people that don't mind it and that's just sad for a supposed recreation of combat training and sport.
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>>99054
>>99055
You don’t train and are probably underageb8
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>>99069
Cool dude. Take your attitude to an mma or boxing gym then. I’m sure they’ll love it when you tell the instructor you want to spar at 100% and he’s a pussy if he doesn’t.
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>>99074

Damn how dense can you be (or how fat) I'm not even going 100%
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>>99075
>I should be allowed to kick people u til they blow their hamstrings
>if you’re not sparring 100% all the time you’re a pussy
>if you don’t kick people in the groin you’re a pussy
>if you don’t spar full power in “real combat sports” you’ll be shunned and reprimanded
>”what bro I’m not even talking about going 100%”
Stick to a story retard. For the record it is painfully obvious to actual martial artists, in HEMA or otherwise, that you’re full of shit and a LARPer.

I’ll try and give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re just pretending to be retarded at this point.
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>>99054
>M8 if you're half assing your hits in any other combat sport you'd be shunned and reprimanded.
Ah so you don't train contact sports... not like it's a surprise. Your e-phallus is enormous though, don't worry anon.
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>>99075
>I'm not even going 100%
>this is not even my final form
Damn this is some really good b8 anon, props.
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>>99075
If you want to beat up people like there are HEMA related events you can participate in like the gathering of the pack. Why not go there instead of whining
>>
Sparred someone for the first time at the Ren fair. I got 2 draws in at 100% and about 3 hits against me, but I got an arm and a torso hit with a nice riposte. Then two more hits against me. I've watched vids and no formal training. My biggest weakness: I rush in and get way too close. Otherwise, I was told I could be pretty good if I practiced my distance because of my orangutan arms. Will post sword and gambeson later.
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>>99153
Forgot to mention, I don't like how hema dudes treat glancing hits against your gloves. Really irked me because it was so light.
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>>99154
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>>99154
Never heard of HEMA tournaments at a ten fair but that sounds like a good idea. At least where I’m from That stuff is relegated to performers only. In any case you have to consider that even a light hit to the hands could potentially be disabling, especially if it was a push or draw cut a lot of force isn’t really needed. Also, I’ve found that a lot of times what cuts do and don’t qualify as “martial” comes down to the specific guy doing the judging.
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>>99156
Side note, who makes this blunt?
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>>99159
I think it's red dragon. I've seen the same one from koa, but snagged this from an etsy seller for $100 less. Only time will tell how it'll hold up.
>>99158
Yeah but a light hit in padded gloves?
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>>99193
>Yeah but a light hit in padded gloves?
HEMA tournaments are a recreation of blossfechten dummy, the context of which is sharp blades with no protection
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>>99195
I'm aware they fought bare handed and stuff in the manuscripts. I'm arguing the fact hema gloves add up to at least an extra inch, a light tap or scrape more or less would've been a near miss. Unless it causes audible dings or vibrations on the blade from impact, I don't think it should translate. But that's just me, an unskilled newbie
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>>99199
Just don’t get hit on the hands
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>>93731
As far as i am aware, most of the ones i see being passed around were made in the 1910s or earlier by the then curator of arms and armor of the metropolitan museum, Bashford Dean, who by training was a zoologist specialized in ichthyology. But he had a kink for arms and armor, and was pivotal in construction of the MET arms and armor collection, being seen as an autority on the subject by the p. So yeah, his stuff is super outdated by todays standard, but there is not much that can be done to prevent clueless people from spreading it. Pic related is his interpretation of what a 14th century suit of armor would have looked like, built from scraps he bought from Turkey, and it has some weird stuff on it, but it wont stop the MET from putting it on display.
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>>99069
It's still a sport dude. Especially if you're fencing with people don't know how to fall, wrestling and striking can seriously injure people. Most people don't get into this expecting to suffer life long sports injuries. It's fine if all parties involved understand and know what they're getting into, and know what they're doing. But you arent replicating a real combat form, fencing with sharps alone is already very different and nobody expected to ever have to fight against a real swordsman some day.
I agree any contact sport involves some risk of injury but to go in like your in a real life or death fight when you're just practicing is inappropriate. The whole point is to learn to do this stuff in a controlled and relatively safe environment.
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>>93386
What would people recommend for a decently middle ground training sword for 19th century military infantry/gymnasium saber? The Easton Mark III looks really nice but its like 260+ dollars on a good day. was looking for something in the 80-200$ margin either metal or synthetic with good handeling for thumb up grip and point work. Preferably straight/slightly curved. 750-875 grams.
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Opinions on the SIGI King? Looking at maybe getting the shorty version
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>>99480

A SIGI King shorty is precisely what I use, and I've had 20+ different swords I've cycled through.

Peak HEMA sword for fencing. Shit if it were a real longsword but great for actual fencing and tournaments. No matter how good it is however, you will always be outclassed by longer swords, especially other normal or XL size SIGI feders.

It's a joy to use, it's probably the prettiest and best HEMA longsword lookalike there is atm.
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>>99557
Pretty good to hear. I have a Standard Regenyei and find the length too long for me, so that's why I'm opting for a shorter sword. I guess I'll go order a SIGI King shorty now. Btw, how long have you been in HEMA to have cycled through 20+ swords?
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>>99566

Three years but I like swords so I buy , try and sell, and only keep the best. It's pretty much the only way. A protip with SIGI: If you dont mind a bit of randomness in color style and pommel wait for their Instagram sales, they usually sell swords that are ordered made but not sold, and this way you also get it quick instead of having to wait.
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>>99583
Thanks for the advice! I don't mind waiting a bit, I have other hobbies to keep me busy in the meantime.
>>
How important is muscle mass to hema and sport fencing? Can you still compete if you are low T and have trouble building muscle?
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>>99694
I'm not an expert, but endurance is far more important than the extra strength (unless you REALLY like beating other peoples blades) in HEMA. Can't really be effective in sparring if you die of exhaustion. Sport Fencing, which I have far more experience in is all about speed and quick reflexes. All three blade types are incredibly light and can easily be handled by toddlers. As such, you will generally see lanklets and other thin frame people doing quite well. If anything, body building during the time I was doing sport fencing was an impediment as it just slowed me down.
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I need a blunt zweihander for HEMA. Any recommendations?
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>>100119
You can't really spar with most proper two-handed swords because they'll just fuck you up regardless of whether they're sharp or not. Regenyei does make some meant for sparring, however:
https://regenyei.com/product/th-trainer-04/#tip
https://regenyei.com/product/th-trainer-03/#tip

I do doubt that the Iberian model really is safe for sparring however
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>>100260
Wtf happened here?
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>>100266
nerve gas
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>>100260
>the judge
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>>100260
>Just fucking dies
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What's the best HEMA school in the world?
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>>100390
Me, by myself, in my backyard
https://youtu.be/ZqVQT9Det6Q
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>>100411
I kneel...
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>>100119

Florian Fortner

>inb4 poor
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>>100423
>Florian Fortner
Incredibly based
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Sideswords with knuckle bows, y/n?
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>>101140
Of course yes!
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>>101140

Absolutely not. They look better without, even if they have rings.
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>>101140
Yes, if you care about your fingers. There's no sidesword glove option that's both good and available
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>go to hema group
>doing partner exercises
>instructor says to do 5-10 strikes/parries and then switch who is attacking and who is defending
>tfw i'm the only one who seems to keep count
>have to tell partner that they just did 5 strikes so it's time to switch
>tfw started counting out loud with each strike
>nobody else does this
>sometimes vary up the timing so partners don't fall into repetitive action instead of reacting to what my sword is doing
>they always just go to parry even though I haven't moved at all
>give vocal feedback when what they did feels solid
>nobody else does this
>tfw afraid they think i'm egotistical and that i think im better than everyone else bc i sound like i'm judging them when i'm just trying to encourage and give feedback
am I being an asshole? I used to do taekwondo for like over a decade at a school that was pretty good and not mcdojo-y, as far as i could tell, and I feel like a lot of the habits I have from that are bleeding into hema where it doesn't seem to be common practice. I can understand things like not bowing to your partner after practicing, but overall it feels like I'm training with crash test dummies or something. I'm not very good at hema, and i get tired much faster than everyone else bc of anorexia, so I feel like other people are thinking of me as being full of myself and bossy and conceited when I'm really just trying to help.

does hema have different etiquette/culture where i should just shut up and let people do their strikes until they're satisfied or whatever?
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oh and for clarification, the instructor does not say do 5-10, they say to do 5 or 10 and i'll remind my partner when they hit the appropriate number. It's more accurate to say the instructor says to do X strikes/parries, and I have to remind the partner they just did the Xth strike so it's time to switch
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>>101332
They’re probably just not paying attention, but I understand your frustration. This along with doing the drills in correctly or, even worse, intentionally trying to defend during a drill are biggest pet peeves in HEMA and makes me want to reee at these fucking nerds

Just let me train you faggots
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>>101332
no you're completely in the right.
they either arent taking it serious or have been taught absolutely no discipline. In part, its up to the instructor to make sure people actually follow the exercise. The lack of people taking this contact sport serious as a contact sport is frustrating to me too.
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>>101474

This is so shit. Probably absolutely nothing like fencing back then, which was also probably different from combat. I'm beginning to dislike HEMA
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>>101501

>dicipline

Nigger HEMA is a gay larp what did you expect?
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>>101501
> This is so shit. Probably absolutely nothing like fencing back then
How would you know?
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>>101509
Fencing back in the day just meant running your sword into a nigga because he looked at you wrong. Not this gay ass manual larp.
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>>101512
I agree. They wrote all those fencing books as a joke for future historians.
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>>101542
you're giving me a great idea m8
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>>101501
Yeah, bro. Go to tournaments and show everybody how it's done
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>>101542
Soft ass dudes like Quevedo and Caravaggio actually caught more bodies than your gay treatise writers.
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>>101332
You're completely in the right. A lot of people in HEMA just fucking suck at being training partners because that culture and approach to training isn't commonplace like it is in other martial arts.
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>>101332
First of all, yes that just general good martial arts practice, we literally do the same thing in boxing and Olympic fencing, but second, it could potentially be try hard depending on how you are doing it, but third yes those are good tendencies to have.

In my experience in western MA (my primary experience, have a little in eastern), things like this are encouraged as a means to an ends, and if you are not achieving the ends (having conducive breathing habits, actually defend yourself instead of route "movements", counting/preforming the combo correctly) the means (counting, exhaling audably when you strike, etc) are highly encouraged. But those means are not an enforced necessity like karate yells and stuff.
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>>101474
Judging by the flat strike by the fat retard in yellow, I assume Fabian is the one on the left.
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>>99377
A singlestick. You'll have a hard time finding anything below $250 and they all suck anyway. I've fenced with antique military pattern gymnasium sabers and kvetun is the only thing that comes close at any price range.
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>>101332
A little bit autistic anon. It doesn't matter if it's not exactly 5 repetitions. Your teacher would probably prefer you to focus on getting the technique right instead.

>>101474
>>101779
Lel imagine going up against the actual Martin Fabian in a tournament and you autistically waddle in and slap him across the face with your flat.
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>>101823
>stops his advance to avoid a leg cut before continuing
>durrr he's waddling autistically
I bet you're the type of nigga to waddle in eyes closed, get smacked in the leg but carry on for the afterblow anyway because you think leg hits aren't martial
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>>101886
Bori won’t suck your dick just because you suck his
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>>101904
>not sucking dick just for the pleasure of it
ngmi
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>>101939
>not sucking dick just for the extra protein
Ngmi
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>>101886
You shouldn't use the n word Boris.
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>>101886
>you think leg hits aren't martial
Gayszlen aren't martial, not now, not then, here you go.
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>>101886
He stops waddling to avoid a leg strike, then goes back to waddling and slaps his opponent with the flat. Is that you in the video?
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>>102151
Not that anon but footwork is fine and you’re a fat faggot who probably doesn’t even compete.
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>>102157
Borislav if you don't want people to laugh at you don't post videos of yourself on 4chan
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>>102072
>banned for being unsafe in many rulesets
>not martial
sure anon
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>>102266
Why don’t you try and explain what’s actually wrong with the footwork then

I’m willing to bet you can’t because again, you don’t train
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would you guys play my hema focused chess themed mouse and keyboard only, fighting platformer
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it has realistic collisions and leverage with an arcadey control scheme.
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its called Roek
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>>102284
>Conveniently ignoring the embarrassingly flat strike while hyperfocusing on the waddling joke.

It's not a critical analysis of your footwork you stupid moron, he's making fun of the way you waddle like a penguin, probably because you're a bit fat. Get over yourself, stop your crying.
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>>102307
Shit happens in competition. I’m sure all your strikes are martial all the time when fighting live lol. Way to actually dodge my question though while accusing me of doing that. Also
>bro that’s totally you in the video of you ask for an explanation of why I say the technique is bad
You have autism
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>>102300
looks really cool anon
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>>102280
Just because it's deemed unsafe doesn't mean it's martial, this is just a simple fallacy than I can't even be bothered to say anything against this. Pulling hair is usually banned in most ruleset, is it martial?
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>>102292
I'd rather play a Petrov or a Four Knights than this...
Controls looks interesting though ngl.
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>>102319
>anon fights a duel of honor in 16th century germany
>takes a gayzlen to the ankle because he doesn't retreat
>ankle explodes, anon stumbles and catches a strike to the face
>it doesnt count bro its not martial just let me get up and go for round 2 gayzlen is bullshit bro do a real move
many such cases
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>>102319
>getting your leg cut open isn’t martial
This fucking board I swear
>is muh hair pulling martial?
Yes you retard, if you have the option to take that as a grip when grappling you should
https://youtu.be/QVov2TEYJ8k
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>>102323
>>102337
I think his point is that just because something is unsafe to practice doesnt automatically mean its effective as a mainline strategy.

like, where are all the eye poke focused martial arts? Its not really a thing since hitting someone in the eye is hard to do most of the time and youd probably smash your fingers into their forhead most of the time unless you ar literally holding their face.
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>>101814
thanks for the reply.

Arent there the synthetics though by purple heart and one or two other companies though? I feel like ive heard ok things about them (or at least not much outright bad). and they are usually around 100-120 dollars. To bad the purpleheart one has been out of stock for a while.

I actually do have a singlestick (though no handguard) and its ok for practice, but it feels a bit front heavy leverage wise (again probably because no handguard) for good pointwork, which is what im more into.
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>>102292
>>102293
>>102295
>>102300
Looks neat.

Are you the guy who would post really early physics demos on /asp/ like 4 years ago (before mandrama took over the board)?
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>>102292
seems neat, like the aesthetic and feel. Has a nice late 90s computer feel but polished.

also, circular disengage and the how that cursor moves looks real nice.
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>>102396
Most martial arts consist of very few mainline strategies and then many more contigency techniques for specific situations. Krumphau is a terrible mainline strategy but an excellent contigency for breaking ochs. Lekuchner's disarms are a terrible mainline strategy but an excellent contigency against opponents that car crash without a plan. Gayzlen is a terrible mainline strategy but an excellent contingency against an opponent who can't properly manage distance.

>>102398
Yes there are synthetics but I wouldn't buy them. You won't get much better thrust simluation from them than a single stick. The issue is that the thing that distinguishes military saber handling from dueling saber handling is bind prescence and that's the part everyone fucks up. You can get a decent dueling sabre from any smith but it won't bind like a military saber and it won't give you the thrust you are looking for. I know exactly what you are talking about with military saber point work and I have hated every modern repro because of it. Just get a basket for the singlestick and start saving for kvetun. I wasted a lot of money on saber trainers and they all suck.
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>>102410
>Most martial arts consist of very few mainline strategies and then many more contigency techniques for specific situations
Might just be me, but there seems to be 3 general "catagories" of techniques. Main ones, things you do occassionally but arent actually that rare, and then the wtf very specific or ad hoc stuff.

>Yes there are synthetics but I wouldn't buy them.
well, a downer, but thanks for the honesty. Better not wasting my time/money on other stuff then for a while.

One thing with the singlestick, because its not flexible, probably not the best to thrust against someone else. at least not too much. Did some foil fencing years ago, so I kinda like the thrust with my cuts.

As a side note, seems like the place to bring it up. Actually have an antique light cavalry saber made by Thurkle I got from Easton Antique Arms a few years ago and I love it. Was in poor aesthetic condition but cleaned most if it up. It being a decently bulky cavalry saber though, its not the most lively thing in the hand, but it still does moulinets very well and its still incredibly study and well made 150+ years later. But I kind of wanted something that's more infantry in nature rather than cavalry to practice. good excersise though. really feel it in the forearms.
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>>102412
>probably not the best to thrust against someone else
Maybe not safest but it's not that dangerous either. Important safety thing regarding that is to have pin only at butt end of stick so the basket and stick slips in your hand if you thrust too hard.
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Help me anons it's been years and I still suck at longsword.

I excell at double weapons and I'm good with rapier, but the longsword I just dont understand at all. Like I spar and I dont know what to do

>If I attack I'm open and defenceless for a counter attack and thys a double hit

>If I defend I don't know how to counter attack

>I sometimes dont even know how to defend but I can 90% of the time score a counter and thus a double hit.

>If I get too far I dont reach and all defences or attacks end up being double hits

>If I get too close it always ends up in wrestling

I just dont understand the weapon at all. It looks extremely suicidal to me, if it were a real duel. I know about jumping away and hand sniping but how do you actually fight with the longsword? Does the longsword make ANY sense at all if you're not wearing plate armor?
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>>100260

I almost killed my buddy with a stiff Regenyei longsword doing that.
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>>99377

>260 is too much
lol
>80-200
lmao
>750-875 grams
OHNONONO HAHAHAHAH

Just fucking buy one good saber you cheap fuck. You can even get XIX-XX century fencing sabers for the price of a decent modern one.
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>>102443
i'm still new to longsword, but from what i can tell the best way to go about it is to attack and defend at the same time. like if you're parrying a strike, make sure your blade ends up immediately threatening your opponent so that all you need to do is step forward to hit them, or if you attack that you're also positioning yourself in such a way that you aren't left open to getting hit if your attack misses or is parried.

i could be totally off though, i'm not very good.
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>>102412
You can thrust with them. The baskets are designed loose on purpose to slide when you thrust, you just have to lower the intensity a bit.

>>102443
Study absetzen and schielhau, learn to defend with your body and sword structure.
>I just dont understand the weapon at all. It looks extremely suicidal to me, if it were a real duel.
>Does the longsword make ANY sense at all if you're not wearing plate armor?
Don't get hung up on this. There's no historical evidence that stuff ever happened. There's evidence of unarmored duels of honor to first blood with the thrust banned, and evidence of longsword sport tournaments, but no unarmored lethal duels.
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>>102443
The answer to all your green texts and more is zwerchau
>they attack?
>I zwerch
>they don’t attack?
>I zwerch
>they defend my initial attack?
>I zwerch again
Please mention me in your speech when you get your gold medal
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>>102399

yea, i dropped that game because it got way overscoped. im trying it again with a focus on the actual sword fighting mechanics.
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>>102399

there will also be magic muskets with long ass reloads.
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the singleplayer is about a piece that escapes this tabletop game being played by these 2 giant demons for eternity, and the other pieces have to hunt him down.
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>>102463
>Don't get hung up on this. There's no historical evidence that stuff ever happened. There's evidence of unarmored duels of honor to first blood with the thrust banned, and evidence of longsword sport tournaments, but no unarmored lethal duels.
There is evidence of unarmoured longsword/two-handed sword use in anger. Self-defence (some did definitely carry them while traveling, etc), duels in 16th century Italy, and even street fights. Swanger's Manciolino translation includes a translation of a court case about one, in which one of the guys is described as wielding either a two-handed or hand-and-a-half sword, the witness saying he doesn't really know the difference.
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>>102465
reminds me of Hopes method:
>they attack?
hanging guard
>they don’t attack?
hanging guard faster
>they defend my initial attack?
hanging guard until they’re pissed
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_F1kf2dc8fM&feature=emb_logo
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>>102683
Self-defense is not the same as a duel, and not all forms of weapon use in anger are the same. In the early 21st century there are lots of records of people using pistols in self-defense but if historians look back on this they would still be wrong to say that pistols are used in dueling or that our firearms training is equally applicable to a theoretical pistol duel.
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>>102292
this looks way better than I had expected game like this to work. Genuinely excited for it, thank you for sharing
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>>94841
16th century fencing aka HEMA doesn't have much to do with anything on the battlefield. You can larp all day but you won't be medieval warrior. You won't learn how to be able to draw a longbow, couch a lance, or fight in formation as a man-at-arms.
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>>103093
This is blatantly untrue. People who say this generally don't know what sources exist outside of Liechtenauer (and adjacents), and have never read any period accounts from when melee weaponry was in use.
There are sources written by highly regarded soldiers of the time, and with a clear military bent. A good example of this would be Pietro Monte. From Monte, we can infer that much of what we see in other sources (such as certain weapons within Bolognese) clearly is militarily applicable shit, and not just for sport, or dueling or self-defence. In fact, while they don't outright state this, it's also easily inferred for the Bolognese. When else are you going to fight a pike with a sword, or deal with multiple partisans being thrown your way, while you yourself are carrying a polearm and shield?
Context-wise, it's very important to remember that not all military combat consisted of guys standing shoulder-to-shoulder in tight formations, and by far not every military fight was even a battle. Single- and small-group combat, skirmishes as well as combat with sidearms were an extremely common occurrences. Period accounts are very clear about this.

Does this mean modern HEMAists are "real medieval warriors"? Of course fucking not. However, to say this shit has nothing to do with historical warfare is absolutely retarded.
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>>103100
The manuals I have and most of what I practiced about 10 years ago was Talhoffer because it was John Clement's group. You are correct that set piece battles were rare. However I still fail to see how most manuals from different schools were useful even in a raid or skirmish with a few dozen men. Most men are armored and use weapons differently. Sure there are 1v1 confrontations that happen and you can draw some skill from HEMA. People that practice with one handed weapons, shields, and pole weapons in HEMA are getting more useful things in a historical context of the high to late middle ages. Best thing would be to train how they told us they trained for war. How knights/men at arms trained. Much of it was learning how to fight on horseback. Rising on other boys shoulders to simulate fighting on horseback. Practicing with the Lance and spear. Thrusting which is often hard to do in HEMA practice. Wrestling. Not being such a modern HEMA pussy with strict snowflake rules.
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>>103105
>Rising on other boys shoulders
>Thrusting
>Wrestling
h-hot
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>>103100
>In fact, while they don't outright state this, it's also easily inferred for the Bolognese. When else are you going to fight a pike with a sword, or deal with multiple partisans being thrown your way, while you yourself are carrying a polearm and shield?
This is not really the core bulk of most bolognese sources which are more centered around s&b and sword and companion in general, though I'd agree that you could probably make it up outside of a civilian context pretty easily.
The immense majority of sources are about civilian contexts and civilian students though. Of course from time to time you have a Girard or a Monte, but most of them are primarily for civilian salles intended as such. Also, we have sources about pike parades (Pascha), the frontier between civilian demonstration of military skill and the practical applications of military skill isn't always that easy to decipher.

Regardless, military or not, doesn't say much about the validity of a source, the idea that only military-based fighting is relevant is absolutely silly, silly then, silly now. Not that I pretend you were the one to say this mindy you.



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