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File: 1648389135295.jpg (218 KB, 1078x1106)
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sumo general
last thread: >>82596

next basho: May
location: Tokyo

Banzuke: http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Banzuke.aspx
Results: http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Results.aspx

How to tie a mawashi: http://www.e-sanpuku.co.jp/sumo/howto_en.html

Pastebin (unedited): https://pastebin.com/LubKFzQa
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first for my boys going kk
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Must be an awkward aftermath for Takayasu...
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Never doubted
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This basho's end was agonizing.
I'm not even Takayasu's fan, but it's so fucked to see *this* result every time. He's not just some former Ozeki. Guy has one of the most impressive careers of all current rikishi. Yet it's never enough to reach the final goal.
WakaTaka though... What a surprise. If someone told that he's going to be the nexy JP cup winner even 1 basho ago, I would've laughed. And it's not like he lucked out into this. He performed like a real winner. Got setbacks, yet smashed obstacles. Well deserved.
As for picrel guy. Shodai, I will never doubt anymore.
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First ever basho I watched fully live was Wakatakakage's debut in the top division, so seeing his win today was pretty kino.
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>>89390
Nah, wakatakakage got hella lucky
>No yokozuna
>1/3 ozeki was healthy
>Faced the biggest choker ever
>Nearly choked himself
Waka is going to go back to a 9-6 8-7 shitter next basho, small guys like him get figured out quickly.
>>
Takayasusisters.... we choke to full blooded Japanese GODS... we are gajin pigs with pino trash pumping through our veins.....
>>
>>89390
That is just the way it is for some people. Takayasu at least looked strong this basho. Sucks he choked at the end but he only lost to Waka, Shodai and Abi. He is looking way better than the last couple tournaments he competed in.
>>
>>89397
Who got the special prizes?
>>
>>89399
Wakatakakage got Technique
Takayasu and Kotonowaka got Fighting Spirit
>>
>>89400
>Wakatakakage got Technique
...and Outstanding Performance, didn't he?
>>
>>89403
That was conditional. Only if he beat Shodai in regulation, which he did not... A very silly condition if I do say so myself.
>>
>>89405
True. Thanks.
>>
>>89378
>most mid rikishi wins
>its kino
reminds me on mankind winning the belt ngl
>>
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>>89396
>Takayasusisters
>sisters

This is a Chad Sumo thread. Submissive beta male virgins do not belong here, so either man up or fuck off to >>>/lgbt/ where you belong with your stupid "sisters" faggotry, and quit shitting up our thread.
>>
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>I tried so hard and got so far....

G'dammit Takayasu. Losing to Abi? Really?
>>
Way too fucking early Natsu banzuke prediction

Y Terunofuji
O Mitakeumi Shodai
O Takakeisho
S Wakatakakage Abi
K Hoshoryu Daieisho
1 Ichinojo Kiribayama
2 Takayasu Kotonowaka
3 Tamawashi Endo
4 Hokutofuji Takanosho
5 Tobizaru Onosho
6 Wakamotoharu Ura
7 Shimanoumi Takarafuji
8 Terutsuyoshi Kotoeko
9 Kotoshoho Tochinoshin
10 Nishikigi Okinoumi
11 Aoiyama Meisei
12 Myogiryu Ichiyamamoto
13 Ishiura Chiyoshoma
14 Sadanoumi Chiyotairyu
15 Yutakayama Oho
16 Chiyomaru Azumaryu
17 Hidenoumi Chiyonokuni

Demoted: Akua, Kagayaki, Kotokuzan
Promoted: Oho, Azumaryu. Hidenoumi
>>
>>89418
Abi has fully embraced being the bad guy. He lives to stomp on dreams
[spoiler]including those of his own fans[/spoiler]
>>
>>89405
that is so bullshit, should have been conditional on winning the basho.
>>
>>89420
Fuck, man, this middle of this banzuke is going to as much of a blender full of rats as the last one.
I'm pretty sure you've got it right through M3 and the promotions from juryo.
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Anyone got a webm of Tobi vs Ichi?
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I'll say it again. Shodai isn't meant to be a great consistent ozeki. He's the gatekeeper of fate. A rogue element. An agent of chaos who stands in the way of those bearing success.
I'm a shodai-stan now.
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>>89432
>He's the gatekeeper of fate.
Well, ozeki does translate to "the great barrier". He's not the one to win, but he's the one you have to beat if you are to win.
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>>89429
>middle of this banzuke is going to as much of a blender full of rats as the last one.

Holy shit.....from M8 down is just a complete clusterfuck.
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>>89420
>Daieisho komusubi
Nah that spot belongs to kotonowaka
>>
>>89453
It's been over 50 years since an M1 East with an 8-7 record didn't get at least Komusubi so Daieisho is almost certainly getting it.

Kotonowaka deserves it, definitely, but unless the banzuke committee opens up extra slots, he's going to be M1.
>>
>>89455
This.
>>
>>89390
Defeating both Takayasu and Wakatakakage, Shodai is the de facto champion, right?
>>
How long till teruno retires because of injuries?
>>
>>89455
can he even make m1 with m2 ichinojo at 9-6 and m4 kiribayama at 10-5?
i feel like there has been more people that don't understand rankings recently. Before the basho started, people were trying to say abi was going to make ozeki this tournament if he got 10 or more by counting his m6 and m12 records.
>>
>>89494
>can he even make m1 with m2 ichinojo at 9-6 and m4 kiribayama at 10-5?
Probably not. "Deserve" vs. "Reality" is a different matter, though. His sumo over the past two two tournaments suggests he should be highly ranked. Reality and fairness to the other wrestlers must intrude. Ichinojo and Kiribayama both put up good records at higher rankings so they get precedent. (and, of course, they also deserve a higher ranking as well. Their performances were impressive as well.)
>>
>>89494
>i feel like there has been more people that don't understand rankings recently. Before the basho started, people were trying to say abi was going to make ozeki this tournament if he got 10 or more by counting his m6 and m12 records.

That doesn't bother me. We have people who are new to sumo and they may not understand all of sumo's quirks. They're bound to make incorrect statements as they learn. Like the "33 wins over 3 tournaments for ozeki" thing. They don't realize there's a bunch more that goes into it.
I appreciate this thread's comfy nature and willingness to explain things to users new to the sport.
>>
>>89405
requiring him to beat 2/3 Ozeki is fair I think. That's what the Shukun-sho usually goes to, people who beat the most YO
>>
>>89390
Mad how he recovered tb h, rarely seen anything like it. Seems to prove Murray right that his problems are really all in his head, once he got a win and got his mindset in the right place his performance just flipped completely.
>>
>>89494
>Before the basho started, people were trying to say abi was going to make ozeki this tournament if he got 10 or more by counting his m6 and m12 records.
These are just the regular American Reddithogs who think sumo is all about the race to yokozuna for their favorite and who for some reason want that to be as easy as possible so it won't even be an accomplishment. Disregarding their monkey antics is for the best for everybody.
>>
>>89539
I agree. He said he had a plan as part of his covid recovery to take the early matches easy and ramp up as the tournament went on, but I think a side effect of that was that the early losses didn't completely demoralize him so he retained the will to compete.
>>
>>89513
>33 wins over 3 tournaments AT SEKIWAKE for ozeki"
ftfy. Ive only ever seen it stated at sekiwake or sanyaku as the general rule. i only stated that because i find it hard to believe that someone knows the 33 rule but not the rank requirement.
i think it was more on the sp sumo thread, but people kept arguing with anyone that said theres no way that the m6 counts, let alone the m12 one.
>>89542
>reason want that to be as easy as possible so it won't even be an accomplishment
agree
>Disregarding their monkey antics is for the best for everybody.
monkey antics is appropriate for abi fans
>>
>>89547
>monkey antics is appropriate for abi fans
Could you go into a little more detail on this? I don't know enough about sumo to know any given wrestler's fanbase. Does his supporters club start barroom brawls or something?
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>>89486
Yes, absolutely.
And he rinsed Keisho too, so he's really the #1 Ozeki of Japan, and NSK should really consider promoting him to Yokozuna right NOW.
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I love this pic
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>>89553
Enough.
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>>89553
>His smile and optimism: gone.
>>
>>89553
next to the guy who beat him too.
>>
>>89553
cheer up
>>
>>89552
Yokozuna shodai
>>
>>89489
>How long till teruno retires because of injuries?
I honestly don't believe he'll make it to the end of the year.
>>
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>>89550
>Abi fans
Abi is entertaining enough with his childish antics; however his sumo is extremely simplistic though still at the upper limit of what his fans' intellects can comprehend.

If you haven't seen picrel before, this is literally every Abi fight that has ever been and ever will be.
>>
>>89569
Abi said that he's trying to do belt sumo and in this basho he almost touched his opponent's belt!
That's improvement
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>>89570
I hope he does get some belt skills, because as it stands if anyone gets past his monkey arms he can't do much and we saw that in this basho.
>>
>>89570
Hey, he did try. Can't take that from the man.

This was a full-on throw. Abi looked like Hoshoryu for a split second.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg2jXkRGhLs
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>>89550
It's just about Abi's strange pysique and the length of his arms compared to his height (the so-called "ape index"). Some people simply call him "monkey" because of that.
>>
>>89553
broken beyond repair
>>
>>89489
We'll be lucky if we manage to see him in 2 years, Im pretty sure he'll be gone by mid-late 2023
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>>89494
>can he even make m1 with m2 ichinojo at 9-6 and m4 kiribayama at 10-5?

No way.

Kotonowaka and Takayasu will both make the Joi Jin in the top 4 spots, but Ichinojo and Kiribayama will occupy the M1 slots, as their performance at their ranks earned them those slots at the top of the Joi Jin.
>>
>>89542
>the regular American Reddithogs

Shut the fuck up with your racist anti-American cancer.
>>
>>89486
>Shodai is the de facto champion, right?
LoL! FUCK NO! Not with his shitty 9-6 record. Hell, g'damn Takakeisho pretty much GAVE that motherfucker a win.
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>>89489
He won't make it through the year. He'll fight this next basho in May, go kyujo again in July, and then announce his intai before the September basho due to not being able to perform at the level expected of a yokozuna.
>>
>>89583
>posts some unsubstantiated bullshit

There is nothing "strange" about his physique or the length of his arms. Fuck off back to >>>>/reddit/ already.
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>>89674
>soijaks pointing at an American flag
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>>89703
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>>89420
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>>89714
>Takakeisho above Mita
What the hell have you been huffing son

>>89674
>he is actually trying to deny that the ozeki spergs are burgers and prolific on reddit
Same question as above
>>
>>89719
there is a little space to promote Mita, so they aren't forced to drop down an ozeki with a positive record; if they have to balance east/west they might add a K2w
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>>89705
Tochi fans are another breed man, first KK in like 8 basho and there's a "he can still win the yusho" discussion. The "prime Tochi" in their heads might as well be Raiden.
>>
>>89725
>promote
>drop down
Nigga what, the ozeki are routinely just ordered based on performance in their last basho. It doesn't follow normal rank procedures because they nominally all have the same rank. Mitakeumi will be O1E next time because he got the highest score out of them, Shodai will be O1W and Takakeisho will be O2W.
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wakataka fish pic (from Arashio beya twitter)
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>>89726
Are you fucking retarded? Tochi was just 1 win behind Wktk/Yasu. Is is wrong to speculate about him getting a cheeku jun, or a prize, or 0.01% chance of other leaders shitting their pants so much that Tochi might've hypothetically won by scoring 11 or 12?
>>
>>89797
Many of his wins have been fairly low quality (Akua blasted, Yutakayama who has been running off the dohyo for half of the basho, an obviously injured Juryo Kaisei, among others) and he looked even more terrible in his losses (yorikiri'd by Chiyomaru of all people, really). Sure the Terutsuyoshi lift was epic vintage Tochi but it took so much of his power, look how gassed he was on the KK interview. I don't know how you would think he would keep steadily bagging wins once they start matching him with on form rikishi above like M10, let alone any joi/sanyaku tier rikishi. I will say the Wakamotoharu win surprised me but he was never in a position to win anything prestigious this basho given the state of his sumo.
>>
>>89784
>Wakatakakage yusho
>Both Wakamotoharu and Kotokuzan from ms all the way to makuuchi
He seems to be good oyakata. Hope he can train more sekitori quality wrestlers
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>>89801
A newcomer from Arashio beya that people should keep an eye out for. Once he gets to makushita we should see what quality of wrestler he is
>>
>>89705
It is weird how Tochinoshin rarely even gets talked about until Tochi haters start going off for no reason.
>>
>>89797
>Tochi might've hypothetically won by scoring 11 or 12?
You're proving his point.
>>89848
This basho had a lot of tochi fanboy spam since he beat up a bunch of trash and had an good record going into the 2nd week. Him and ura usually have the loudest fanboys in the last couple tournaments. I like ura because hes fun to watch, but im not calling for him to be an ozeki or even sanyaku.
the worst part are the ura and tochi fans will talk about how good their guy is while saying Shodia is a trash rikishi that shouldn't be an ozeki. Shodia isn't a great ozeki, but he still earned and is maintaining his position
>>
Have any of you competed in sumo. My record is 1-6, i suck. Shikko are a good workout
>>
>>89856
Some wrestlers just seem to attract fans who are generally divorced from reality.
Any time they do well, they demand a promotion well above what is merited. Any time they do poorly, it's a conspiracy to keep them down.

Maybe some of it is new fans who haven't yet come around to the idea that your favorite wrestler can have a successful career without ever winning a yusho or ever becoming yokozuna. We were all there once upon a time.
>>
>>89861
>We were all there once upon a time.
I feel anyone thats done a sport shouldn't fall into that trap. I like kaisei, chiyomaru, takarafui, and kotoshogiku from the beginning, and I had no delusions theyd be any good. Watching them compared to hakuho or kakuryu was enough to shut that down
Maybe its because it feels like the top guys aren't such a dominant force like previously?Goeido and takayasu seemed to be better gatekeepers to me since they could do more than one style of sumo even though they have a preference to the belt. Now you have Takakeisho can be beaten just by lasting a couple seconds after the tachiai, Mitakeumi who gives up once you get on his belt, ans Shodia seems to not care. Mita especially since it felt like half his guys lost to him this basho by fucking something up while he stood there basically doing defense only
>>
>>89864
>I feel anyone thats done a sport shouldn't fall into that trap.
You're still on 4chan lol.

But your assessment of the current ozekis compared to the previous generation is spot-on. When you have three...let's say, unimpressive ozeki it kind of cheapens the rank. They end up feeling less like someone who could become yokozuna and more like little more than a jumped-up maegashira.
>>
>>89868
>more than a jumped-up maegashira.
this. terunofuji shouldn't have been able to basically be unhindered to yokozuna no matter how impressive he is.
i had hopes for asanoyama, but he seemed to lose steam once he made ozeki. like hes going to tet and win, but clocking in the paycheck and using the perks of the position mattered more.
being Japanese might play into that. he's not going to be deported like others
>>
>>89861
>Some wrestlers just seem to attract fans who are generally divorced from reality.
Well, Ura's a natural face due to his fighting style and tochi's one of the few succesful western guys. It's pretty naturally for newer, western guys to root for them. And it's pretty natural those guys don't, well, have enough knowledge to stay realistic.

>>89868
Keisho is actually someone who could get the tsuna if he only stayed healthy for a single year. And despite being one-dimensional he can easily win a yusho when he's healthy. Mita is also able to become a yokuzuna. It's only Shodai you always think is more likely ro be de- than promoted.
>>
>>89856
The only tochi stuff I saw was after he had KK. I saw a few posts about how Tochi could hypothetically still win including a Mitakeumi/Tochi alliance post and the usual 'One last ride' but I assume those were in jest. I'm pretty sure most were just happy to see him have a winning record because the last few bashos looked like he was heading straight to Juryo with Kasei. The guy clearly doesn't have much sumo left in him so people cheer for him while they still can. Not sure why it seems to cause butthurt. Especially since most other posts were just making fun of Takayasu because unfortunately once again he performed very well but just couldn't clinch it again.
>>
>>89988
i dont think you understand, no one is allowed to like tochi, enho, or ura because they're too popular and they're clearly not yokozuna material. now please root for someone more niche or dominant from here on out.
>>
>>89992
>no one is allowed to like tochi, enho, or ura because they're too popular and they're clearly not yokozuna material.
>root for someone more niche or dominant from here on out.
nobody is saying that. the point was anons are over hyping their guy with no grounds in reality.
>>
>>89993
>no one is saying that
bro its a hundred times worse in the /sp/ thread anytime anyone says anything good about tochi or enho
>>
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>>89995
>sumodb and sumo.jp down
so its the wiki then.
>anyone says anything good about tochi
to be fair, there's hasn't been anything good to say about tochi other than
>he wasn't demoted to juryo yet
for the last year. enho was never going to be great either with his size. i think its a clash between realists and die hard fans who don't care about records or their guys current condition
>>
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Digits
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>>89999
Times 2
>>
>>89856
>Shodia
For the love of GOD, please learn to spell his name.
>>
Is sumo in a bad place right now with the current yokozuna/ozekis?
>>
>>90000
Can I have 2 digits please?
>>
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>>90010
In terms of results only, this recent period has not been remarkable. Even in an age people remember as featuring a primo sanyaku cast, it wasn't unusual for scorecards to look like this.
>>
>>90010
Not in my opinion dude. Sumo is about the fight, and there's plenty of dudes that create a lot of excitement and anticipation in their fights. Quite a few rikishi to support in this era imho.
>>
>>90010
We've got the no-show, the strong but mentally weak new guy, the strong but unmotivated old guy, and a cute hamster.

What's not to love?
>>
>>90010
>Is sumo in a bad place right now with the current yokozuna/ozekis?
Yes and no.
In terms of the in-ring product, no, the quality of the fights is excellent. Sumo's doing fine.

In terms of marketing...that's a little iffy. Sumo's just like boxing or MMA. It's easier to sell the public a great rivalry among champions. So getting those good TV ratings and sellout crowds is a little harder; and sumo has never been the best at marketing itself to begin with
>>
>>90018
The archetypes just don't match up. Everyone at the top is too nice. Sumo could benefit from a Connor esque figure.
>>
>>89998
>enho was never going to be great either with his size.
Define great.
Mainoumi was a bit larger than Enho, yet he had a good career, even even reached komusubi for 1 basho.
>>
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>>90019
Keisho seems to sometimes try a little. But I'm pretty sure the JSA wouldn't allow real heel antics especially when it comes to ozekis and yokozunas. The meanest thing they're allowed to do is being Mongolian.
>>
>>90026
I rarely get the impression that Takakeisho isn't trying. Most times I see him he's legitimately trying to win. He just gets injured so often. This last tournament, I think he was dealing with an injury and took his foot off the gas once he got his KK to preserve his health.

Mitakeumi's doing well so far, but it's only been one tournament. Time will tell if he settles back into his old consistent 8/9 win self. I'd like to see him make a real push to yokozuna.

Shodai is the most frustrating to me because his problems seem to be all between his ears. He's smart, he's capable of great sumo. He's been durable. As far as I know he's only ever gone kyujo once in his career. If someone could just put a little bloodlust into him, he'd be at the top of the standings later in week 2 more often.
>>
>>89858
Oyakata says more chanko and shiko
>>
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>>90028
It's not about Keisho trying to win or not. It's about Keisho trying to impersonate a bad guy.
>>
can we make a webm compilation with the ashitori by Amanoshima; apparently he's the world n.1 specialist in this:

http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/topic/41671-kimarite-statistics-2022-haru/
>>
next basho mini poster
>>
>>90020
consistent m3 to sanyaku ranking while not getting figured out and booted to lower rankings without a recent injury being the cause.
bouncing back up the ranks after getting healthy is a good sign too
getting to sanyaku because of a weird style and not maintaining it isn't great. i hate abi, but have to admit he's made his gimmick effective even if every single person he fights should have a plan to deal with the flowchart.
>>
>>90076
go for it.
>>
any news on what happened to mae-zumo? completely scrapped for lack of participants or what? there were two Sd100TD last basho, but then today they announced 15 retirements; a few new entrants mentioned here:

http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/topic/41560-new-recruits-natsu-2022/

and so, we are going to shrink again, it seems
>>
>>90082
ah sorry, other names still to debut are in the older thread:

http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/topic/41225-new-recruits-haru-2022/
>>
>>
>>
Mita is next Yokozuna

Accept it
>>
>>90096
He has to spend 5 years at ozeki teasing it first
>>
>>90010
The younger wrestlers are taking over we are fine
>>
>>89453
>not understanding how the banzuke works
I pity you
>>
>>90087
The fuck happened?
>>
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Alright, this is the follow-up/finisher to the dohyouiri thing from last time >>87024.
I have here translated an article by the tsubotaa guy, whose site I linked last time for another purpose. Turns out he has posts which are treasure troves of obscure sumo information. Shitty as it is, I had to make this introduction a separate post because it went over the character limit with the text blocks to follow.
>>
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Unryuu Style and Shiranui Style
There are two styles of yokozuna dohyouiri in today's sumo. They are Unryuu style and Shiranui style. There are two very different ways of defining the pair.

Way #1:
In Unryuu style, for the seriagari, the waist is bent and the left hand is placed to the abdomen while the right hand extends rightward. The yokozuna rises up in this pose.
In Shiranui style, for the seriagari, the waist is bent and both arms are extended outward and away. The yokozuna rises up in this pose.

Way #2:
Unryuu style is the style of dohyouiri popularized by Umegatani II; it could be called Umegatani style.
Shiranui style is the style of dohyouiri which Tachiyama is said to have taken from Unryuu, or it may be Tachiyama style.

The dohyouiri styles of the 10th and 11th yokozuna, Unryuu and Shiranui, were said to be particularly beautiful, and the unique styles of subsequent yokozuna, such as that of Hitachiyama, have been left behind by history. Many yokozuna have used Umegatani II's style, which was derived from Shiranui's style. Tachiyama said that his style was "Unryuu's style, which was taught to me by Shounosuke," and this statement was disseminated by a variety of papers. However, a number of other papers reported that he had chosen Shiranui (some even printing "Shiranumi"). What's more, in the commemorative text entitled "Tachiyama" published shortly following his retirement, it was referred to as "Kimenzan's ceremony". This seems to be the point of genesis of the confusion on the topic. When Haguroyama was promoted to yokozuna, Hikoyama Kouzou referred to Haguroyama's style as Shiranui style, and that quickly became the common understanding. After the war, Sakai Tadamasa engaged in a dispute with Hikoyama over the matter; ultimately, Sakai gave up on the argument.
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[I believe the author of article is summarizing their points here]
Sakai: Tachiyama is supposed to have used Unryuu's style, but we lack the historical documentation necessary to be certain of that conclusion. It would be preferable to forgo the names "Unryuu" and "Shiranui" for the styles of yokozuna since Oozutsu, and to fix them as Umegatani style and Tachiyama style.

Hikoyama: My proof is the nishikie art of Utagawa Kunisada depicting Shiranui [shown here]. Tachiyama used the Shiranui style.

Sakai: We cannot know from that nishikie if Shiranui is performing seriagari or not. Read Old Man Marugami's accounts, look at the photograph of Kimenzan where he has his arms stretched out. Oozutsu would perform the seriagari with his left arm bent, then open it outwards when he reached the full upright position. We cannot definitively say that [Tachiyama's style] was Shiranui's style.

Hikoyama: The sandangamae tells us that Shiranui style is deviant. Marugami's accounts are riddled with errors regarding old customs, they cannot be taken as a reliable source. You cannot refute that Shiranui is the only one spreading his arms. Don't you think it seems much more natural that he would rise with both arms out, rather than bend the one arm in for a moment and then unfold it? "My final word on this is that Shiranui style is now exactly what it always has been, and so too with Unryuu style. There's no room for discussion here."

-from the magazine Grand Sumo, 1956 Hatsu Basho Edition
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Also considered has been the possibility that Shiranui as depicted in the nishikie could have been spreading his hands after clapping, like Hitachiyama would later do, but there is no way to confirm or deny this. Ultimately, we are consigned to debate this for eternity. All the futile, unproductive fighting aside - every yokozuna's dohyouiri style is different from that of the others. I have to question if it is in any way helpful to lump them together under the titles "Unryuu style" and "Shiranui style". All styles in which the yokozuna rises slowly with his left hand bent toward his waist and his right arm extended are collectively called "Unryuu style", but Hitachiyama is not counted among them. If we look at his seriagari alone, Hitachiyama is absolutely an Unryuu style yokozuna but, oddly, he is not treated that way. The reason is simply that, following his two claps in the center of the dohyou, he took the ~/extraordinary/~ step of spreading his arms out and turning over his palms. I think it's very strange that that change alone has meant Hitachiyama is not considered an Unryuu style yokozuna, yet the changes to Unryuu style implemented by later generations have not affected their Unryuu status. This matter would be so easily settled if each yokozuna were to refer to his style as his own. Also, I wonder what Hitachiyama style would turn into if a yokozuna were today to revive it. So, as to our last matter - what Hikoyama referenced when he mentioned the sandangamae. He has claimed that in the current Unryuu style dohyouiri, the inward left arm represents defense and the outstretched right arm represents offense. Then, as such, the Shiranui style, in which both arms are outstretched forward, indicates a singular focus on the offense. It is very well established that this explanation is a complete lie, an utter fabrication. I quote here from a response from the Q&A column with Ikeda Masao from the February Shouwa 56 [1981] issue of "Sumo" magazine:
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"During the war, there was a jungyo in Peking for the soldiers. When he saw Haguroyama's dohyouiri, one of our generals asked Kasagiyama (the former Hidenoyama-oyakata) the meaning of the style, having noticed that it was different from Futabayama's. Being a sharp man, without a beat Kasagiyama told him, 'It's called Shiranui style. The two extended arms shows it is a stance singularly intended for offense. In Futabayama's style, the left hand touching his breast signifies defense, and his extended hand signifies offense, making it a defense-minded stance,' an appropriate explanation for wartime. Satisfied, the general nodded his head. Hidenoyama would later confess to me with a sheepish smile that he had also given the same explanation to Hikoyama Kouzou (who, at this point, was contracted with the Association). Hikoyama had found the information interesting, and subsequently went on to mention or highlight this explanation frequently, to the point that today it is well-known to everyone. There are many post hoc falsehoods and distortions to the history of sumo's customs, and this is one of them - there is no deep meaning to the movements. Yoshibayama, during his career, wrote a letter to me, inquiring 'Hikoyama-shi told me my Shiranui style is deviant and only meant for offense. Is that true?'. I explained to him about Hidenoyama-oyakata in Peking, that the explanation he heard was nonsense, and gave him my assurance that his style was not wicked. Writers continue to fall for that baseless lie to this day, but I promise you that it is nothing but nonsense."

There you go. It makes sense if you think about it rationally. The notion that from the high, middle and low "three stances", the sandangamae, the middle and low ones represent offense and defense, or that the position of an arm conveys that meaning, is moronic.

END
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Postscript: I think what we've learned here is Hikoyama was a fuck, but also that there is no answer and sumo history sucks.
Postpostscript: It seems from a little searching that Old Man Marugami is also associated with the claim that Raiden was banned from using oshizumo. His book should be available online in the National Diet Library but isn't, with a message about copyright stuff. The book was published 122 years ago and Marugami died 117 years ago, so it's not clear what the deal is.
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How many of you bastards have actually been to a basho in person.

I got to go to one day 4 years ago. Was fun
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>>90136
Never been to Japan. Would definitely grab tickets to a match if I did. I'd go with a lady friend and we'd both be sporting kimono. I'd also get drunk and yell out the name of rikishi, and make sure I knocked over a beer bottle and let it roll across the floor. I'd bring toys to give to the kids, and help comfort the random crying babies in the audience as well. Would be a good time, for sure.
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>>90136
>How many of you bastards have actually been to a basho in person.
I've been to two. The first was a long time ago when I was a little kid and I was bored to tears. I should have paid attention because I could have seen Takanohana and Konishiki live. (I mean, I'm sure did, but I don't remember.)

Then when I was in the Marines I visited Tokyo while on leave and attended a day. I got to see prime Asashoryu and young ozeki Hakuho. (I wonder what ever happened to that kid. He had talent but looked a little overmatched if I'm being honest.)
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Nishonoseki (ex-Kisenosato) and Naruto (ex-Kotooshu) will be joining shinpan commitee. Don't know if we will see them during may or after that
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Jun Tanji will be the new Endo
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>>90136
Week 2 of the 2019 Nagoya tournament. Watched the final day in a cafe attack to the Skytree. Hakuho and Kakuryu were both there luckily.
>>90140
Online sells out quickly, ao get that or you'll be stuck with a reseller like I was. I was lucky to see Juryo matches because I didn't care about the castle tour or whatever they were doing.

Id recommend one of the fight a former rikishi or go see practice tours. my friend did the meal and meet one and had a bout. i wasn't able to when i was there based on available bookings.
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Is there a female Sumo? I'd cum so hard to that
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>>90201
I looked it up and there is but they don't use a bikini so its garbage
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the lads
I mean... the sis
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>>90223
No tits?
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>>90223
dibs far right
I want her to give me the Shitatedashinage
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>>90085
>>90082
confirmed, Sandanme will shrink from 100 to 90
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Man, I really like sumo but it's honestly one of the worst sports for athletes' health and well-being out there.

There is something very offputting seeing practically more than half of the wrestlers have a knee, ankle, or elbow bandage of some kind at all times. Most matches typically devolve into attacking an opponent's injured side while trying to wrestle with one's own injuries. If they tear muscles or ligaments they can't get surgeries because of the long recovery times conflicting with the rather brutally short tournament schedules.

I think they'd be much better off with either lowering the number of tournaments a year down to 4 or lowering that fucking dohyo where it was before because practically 80% of all injuries stem from wrestlers awkwardly falling off of it.

It's sad seeing really good wrestlers slowly fade into obscurity because they attained a permanent injury they can't fix so they have to 'adapt' their wrestling style into something they clearly can't do as well/don't like to do.
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>>90277
>lowering that fucking dohyo

Let me guess, you want to slit the emperor's throat and burn byodo-in to the ground as well?
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>>89430
>>89430
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>>90285
Wonder how much of flak he got from his father after losing that bout and missing the play-offs
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>>90277
>It's sad seeing really good wrestlers slowly fade into obscurity because they attained a permanent injury they can't fix
Well a permanent injury could never be fixed anyway. It's permanent.

I think you're going to see more wrestlers actually taking time off to heal because there's so many recent examples of guys missing tournaments (either from injury or covid) and coming back better. Terunofuji, Ura, Abi, Takayasu, Ryuuden....
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>>90277
Lowering the ring is for faggots. Rikishi know the risks. Boxers knew the risk of brain damage. WWE know the risks of ending up like owen hart.
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You guys have any comment on the leaked banzuke report?
The gist of it:
>The banzuke will be determined algorithmically, not by hand
>Ozeki and yokozuna promotion rules will be fixed:
>Ozeki = 33+ wins over 3 tournaments, all while at san'yaku rank, all must be 10+ wins.
>Yokozuna = 2 consecutive yusho while at ozeki
>The new rules would be applied retroactively, so Shodai would be stripped of ozeki rank and the date of Terunofuji's promotion to yokozuna would be altered. Goeido's career high rank would be reduced to sekiwake.

This sounds like a trial balloon to me rather than a leak. I do like the sound of them, though, except the retroactive stuff. That just seems silly.

https://tachiai.org/2022/04/01/nsk-mulls-promotion-rule-changes/
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>>90201
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>>90302
Anon....
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>>90302
>April 01
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>>90280
It was originally flat

They raised it with the Advent of TV so it would be easier to televise. Lowering it would bring it back to tradition.
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>>90294
I'm talking about injuries that could get fixed that are permanent that you can't just "fight through" like the sumo association/culture expects wrestlers to do. For example bicep/pectoral tears. Knee ligament surgery takes fucking forever to heal but muscular tears could heal in two-three months provided wrestlers actually get a chance to recuperate. The current tournament system has them losing far too much rank and frankly nobody is willing to sit out long periods of time since the association is very top heavy in terms of income by division. They end up permanently fucking their bodies up, altering their style, and meandering around the top division barely hanging on. The worst part is these are all procedures that are 100% recoverable from. The problem is that is has to be done as soon as possible otherwise the injury becomes permanent.

Abi and Ryuuden are both perfectly healthy they got demoted because one was caught gambling and the other had spicy shitposts on Instagram that the Boomer association didn't like.
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Hey, sumo bros. Are there any studies about the physical abilities of sumotori? I know there's grip strength studies (even a YT video) and fat free mas sstudies, but how about punching impact power or really, anything more sports specififc? I know the Japanese examine sumo wrestlers a lot, but I can't find anything.

t. someone not versed in sumo
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>>90313
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0ZtkpYTNIM

Here's the grip strength video. One of them maxed out the device at 100 kg, which is pretty fucking crazy.
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>>90311
That's just a part of the game. It's a combat sport. Injuries are inevitable. Being able to fight a war of injury attrition is one of the ways to success.

I agree that it's especially brutal since sumo doesn't have an offseason like every other sport and maybe going down to five tournaments per year and giving them from the end of the Aki basho to the beginning of Hatsu basho off to recover would help them, but it's also all a completely moot point since we have zero ability to affect the situation in any way, shape or form.

Feeling bad for the wrestlers' injury histories is part of being a sumo fan.
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>>90277
Well, every athlete who competes on a professional level will inevitably break a bone or tear a muscle, ligament or tendon at least once during their career, no matter what sport they do (except for maybe darts or billiard). The problem in sumo is not the injury, it's the comeback. In most other sports, people can immediately come back to compete on their former level, in other sports like tennis - which is based on ranks - players who lost their position due to injury get wildcards so they can prove, they can compete at their pre-injury level and can rise through the ranks quickly if they do. But when you take a year of because of injuries in sumo, you need at least another year to get where you used to be. You didn't lose one, you lost two years of your career.
On the other hand, maintaining your rank would be pretty unfair to all the people who actually compete.
The only option I see would be a kind of tsukedashi for sekitori who lost their rank due to injury.

>practically 80% of all injuries stem from wrestlers awkwardly falling off of it.
That's simply a guess. And there's also a difference between serious injuries and stuff that heals before the next basho starts.

Pic just for the lulz.
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>>90322
>The only option I see would be a kind of tsukedashi for sekitori who lost their rank due to injury.
Or they could bring back the kōshō seido system they had from 1972 to 2003 in some modified form to prevent wrestlers from taking unfair advantage of the system.
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>>90133
>I think what we've learned here is Hikoyama was a fuck
I certainly learned that!

Thanks for your interesting posts, Anon. Would it be too much to ask for a short bio on Old Man Marugami? Is he the first sumo lorekeeper or something?
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>>90319
Yeah but I just find it particularly worse for sumo than any other sport I've followed. Especially because of the 'muh tradition' angle being used to a ludicrous extent. The raised Dohyo is particularly egregious and has ended many careers, and THAT wasn't part of how the dohyo was originally supposed to be shaped like either.

There's also this, lol

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/05/asia/japan-sumo-women-ring-emergency-intl-trnd/index.html
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>>90315
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>>90357
>Hakuho feared THIS
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>>90315
>>90357
>>90368
Ura on that recent Junk Sports episode, compressed a hand grip rated at 125kg
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>>90372
Anyone have a link to that? It looks like it got taken down off YouTube?
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>>90309
>They raised it with the Advent of TV so it would be easier to televise
May, 1919
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>>90277
>practically 80% of all injuries stem from wrestlers awkwardly falling off of it
Anon you retard, the wrestlers themselves and knowledgeable observers estimate that a trivial number of sumo injuries are from dohyo falls. Tamawashi's old kotenage alone injured more people than the hieght of the dohyo in the last decade.

Most injuries happen as a result of twisting when falling, or landing extremely awkwardly on the rope. A lower dohyo wouldn't do shit.
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>>90329
>a short bio on Old Man Marugami? Is he the first sumo lorekeeper or something?
Essentially, yeah. From kotobank:
Old Man Marugami (1836-1905). A merchant who lived in the Bakumatsu and Meiji eras.
Born in 1836. The proprietor of the "Marugami" handbag shop by the Nihonbashi Bridge in Edo. A consummate sumo fan, he showed up to every day of all the major basho for over 40 years. Obsessed with sumo to the point of squandering his family's assets. Died February 13th 1905 at the age of 70. His real name was Itakura Matashirou.

Marugami was his family crest - a "kami" character inside a circle (maru). Anyway - he was known for commenting on sumo stuff through the years. If you were around in the late 1800s or early 1900s and needed to know something about older-timey sumo, you couldn't have a better bet for an answer than Old Man Marugami. There are interviews with him all over, but not too many are easily accessible. Before he died, he wrote a book entitled "Assorted Sumo Stories", which is what I'm after at the moment. Though I doubt I would be able to read it unless his writing was very casual.
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Japanese language question:

炎鵬 is the characters for Enho, which I understand to mean "Burning Phoenix" or thereabouts.
阿炎 is the characters for Abi. I'm not sure of the exact meaning, but I know "burning" is part of it and I think the other part is some many-armed mythological figure. (and he frequently has flame themes on his ring aprons.)

How the fuck is the same 炎 character pronounced two different ways? How would you ever know how it's pronounced? How come Abi's name isn't A-En?
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>>90428
Kanji, the japanese characters, can have any number of pronunciations. A Japanese person won't necessarily know the correct pronunciation of a strange combination of characters, even if they know what the characters say, but they can make educated guesses based on what's normal or common. Using your example, the 阿 in Abi is usually "A", so that's solved there. And 炎 might be "hi" or "en" or "honoo". Sounds that start with "h" may change to "b" in compound words, ex: heya -> Kisebeya. "Aen" doesn't sound like a name, nor does "Abonoo", so the name is probably "Abi". If you get it wrong, someone corrects you, and you know what it is.
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>>90430
Thanks. That makes sense. (Your explanation makes sense. The underlying system is insane.)
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Kotozakura 💯 👊
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>>90432
There are adopted chinese pronunciations of kanji and native pronunciations for the same kanji so you need to know when to use which one
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>>90428
>阿炎
Abi has such a weird reading because the name came first and kanji were added ad hoc later (ateji)
The story is that when a foreigner visited Izutsu-beya around 1979 where Tsurugamine was training, he noticed Tsurugamine's newborn son and said "a baby". The Japs misheard this and "Abi" became the baby's nickname, and he eventually grew up to become Terao. After retiring, Terao (now Shikoroyama-oyakata) then trained a recruit named Horikiri, and when Horikiri reached juryo, Shikoroyama gave him his own nickname Abi as shikona. Shikona must always be in kanji, so he made up the spelling 阿炎, which is supposed to stand for "one who is strong like an Asura 阿修羅 and fiery 炎". (source: Japanese Wikipedia)
He probably used this character with an unusual Japanese reading because characters that actually have the Chinese reading "bi" mean stuff like 美 "beautiful" or 備 "prepare" or 尾 "tail" etc.
The 阿 character is usually meaningless and used to spell "a" in loanwords, like Asura which is a loanword from Sanskrit or Pali
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also, there are two existing but rather obscure Japanese words that are pronounced "Abi"
one is pic related, some kind of duck
the other is a Buddhist term, the deepest and most painful of the 8 Buddhist hells, in Sanskrit called "Avici" (yes, like the DJ)
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>>89378
What's the lowest division you guys actually watch?
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>>90604
Reminds me of an old story about Abi from a couple years ago.

>He was back in town for the annual Setsubun festival, so we had him throw prizes to all the kids, as well as do some autographs and give everyone manju. After that we had lunch, but Abi was exhausted from climbing the stairs and had to lie down for about two hours. He was too busy smoking Parliaments to do much of anything anyway. He claims to be enjoying life in general, though he doesn't much care for all the meet and greet type events. He seems to like kids more than adults. He said he's not much interested in people in general, and doesn't even remember what his mom's job is. (She's a nurse BTW; I've gotten my influenza shot from her before.) We had him sign a board for this guy who was his teacher in elementary school and is now the principal, but not only couldn't he remember the guy, he couldn't remember the kanji for "teacher" (先生) without reminding. He got laughed at a lot for that.

tl;dr: Abi's an oddball and might be an idiot.

Note about forgetting kanji: reading them and writing them are two different skills and writing is rapidly being eroded as kids grow up using computers. Even highly literate, educated younger Japanese, who can read around 5,000 kanji may only know how to write around 3-500, since they don't write anything by hand anymore.
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>>90627
>What's the lowest division you guys actually watch?
Makushita. I'll check out specific matches from divisions lower than that if there's a particularly vaunted recruit from the high school or university ranks but I don't watch all the matches.
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>>90627
I often happen to tune into the streams around when Abema is showing sandanme, so I half-watch those, half-listen to them. Doubly so if, as anon above said, there's a uniquely interesting guy in the division worth making sure to tune in for. Makushita is when it starts getting interesting bout-to-bout though
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>>90628
Abi sounds based as fuck. Just a big dumb retard that gets paid good money to crash into other fat bastards and likes kids no pedo.
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>>90627
Juryo, but a lot of times I tune into sandanme and leave it as background noise or simply watch a few matches every now and then.
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>>90319
>>90347
What should be pointed out is that the number of basho per year is one thing that isn't tradition. Moving up to six really was an innovation made because of radio and TV money. It had been two basho per year for over 150 years when they changed it, so it would be very difficult for the Association to argue that reducing the number of basho would turn them against ye olde customs. Even going to five would save so many rikishi an enormous amount of unproductive pain, but they will never drop the number of yearly basho facing anything short of a Shunjuen-style strike.
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>>90687
None of this is unknown. Even perusing wikipedia will give you the dates they went from 2 to 4 to 6 basho, and from 10 to 15 matchdays.
Complaining about it, though, is like the debate about lowering the dohyo: pointless.

Like >>90319 said
>Feeling bad for the wrestlers' injury histories is part of being a sumo fan.
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>>90689
Who said it was unknown? I'm not here to complain, I'm pointing out that tripling the rikishi workload, a recent development, is the cause of the phenomenon of injured wrestlers wrestling.
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>>90690
When you insisted that something be "pointed out", it is implied that such things are unknown.

Don't worry about it. Tripling their workload is offset by improvements in training and medicine. Wrestlers end up being more durable today than they used to be because of these improvements. A knee injury that used to end your career 20 years ago is so easy to treat you only miss a single tournament.
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>>90628
>Abi's an oddball and might be an idiot.
Of course he's a tard. His sumo is the same as a retarded kid spazing on someone.
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AHHHHHHHHHHH THEY FINALLY LOWERED IT!!!!!!

CONFIRMED BY HAKUHO HIMSELF ON IG
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>>90692
durability and recovery are not the same thing
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>>90696
So what do you want? Lower the dohyo? Go back to two basho per year? Ten matches? Let injured wrestlers skip a tournament without risking their rank?
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>>90697
I would reduce the number of basho to 4 and reinstitute koushou seido. If sumo could survive for 150+ years with even fewer matches, no one can claim that this would kill the sport.
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Reducing the basho is stupid, they'd have to rework the entire promotion system. Imagine the horseshit of even just hitting sanyaku in a two-basho year with modern rules.

Besides, all these whines and complaints about the injuries coming out now weren't around in fucking 1970 when they'd had the system for 12 years already, so it's obvious that's not the problem if you use your brain a bit. Same thing goes for the dohyo.

Spoiler alert, it's the fucking jungyo that's the problem. Perma-injured rikishi started showing up when the Association massively expanded jungyo to promote the popularity of sumo, the physical stress that accumulates from just doing jungyo all the fucking time throughout the year is what kills rikishi resilience.
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>>90700
>in fucking 1970
Why do you think these injuries didn't exist then? Because you didn't hear about them being reported? Takanosho didn't reveal his 2019 ACL tear until 2021: did it not happen until 2021? The 70s were a golden age of deshi abuse and unreported debilitating injuries.

>it's the fucking jungyo that's the problem
Jungyo is only a problem when rikishi are forced to work out on them, which is to say never. It's always been the case that they will halfass practice matches, or only lift weights, or simply not participate in anything that might aggravate an injury. Having to go on jungyo is a hindrance to recovery, but it is not a primary cause of health problems.

>Perma-injured rikishi started showing up when the Association massively expanded jungyo
Official jungyo may have been expanded, but unofficial jungyo have been around forever and ever. I posted about this last thread >>82656, that's nine jungyo in five months before radio existed.
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>>90703
>jungyo
cmon guys, it's a road trip; they eat the local food and bang the local prostitutes while getting money and a load of alcohol from the local sponsors
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>>90704
>bang the local prostitutes
Are they allowed to visit soapland? I'm pretty sure covid cuckery is still being enforced.
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>>90640
I STAND WITH URINE
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>>90695
How much NSK is involved with Hakuho-cup?
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>>89870
Asanoyama did a great deal of his training in other stables up until the Coof kicked in. Between that and Hakuho showing up to literally slap the taste of victory out of his mouth after his first yusho the guy was a fucking wreck.

>>90223
Heh, tintin.

>>90231
Breast-binding is a thing in most Japanese combat sports. ESPECIALLY ones with a lot of chest impact and grappling. You know how sumo do, there's no chance that a chick with a loose binding isn't getting the a grab on the titty belt.

>>90277
>practically 80% of all injuries stem from wrestlers awkwardly falling off of it.
Source: your ass. I've been watching for decades, and that's not the killer. A handful of serious injuries do come from falling all the way. But the most serious injury (the death) and most frequent (rolled ankles and acl injuries) over the last couple years have overwhelmingly been bouts where the afflicted part slammed onto the ropes at a bad angle or clipped the edge of the doyho and were injured long before the wrestler hit the floor. "80%" because of the height is complete bullshit and you know it.
That said, it is a statistically significant source of injury and there are definitely ways ot lessen that one risk. But it's not going to suddenly slash injuries by 40% or whatever, we're just going to see a lot more moderate injuries to the thumb and wrist and differently-expressed versions of the same injuries taking up most of the slack. You come off the dohyo badly enough to tear an ACL, you would have hit the plane of the dohyo hard enough to tear it or dislocate your leg >anyway<.

>TV
It was raised up when general matsuri raised the altar platforms. It's been a thing for centuries, ever since they shrunk the straw bales from being 25-gallon barrels to token one-gallon ropes.
>>
>>90427
Fun fact: the Marugamis were utterly notorious pirate cheiftans, and one of the last independent clans to finally get dragged into the Neo-Shogunate. My wako army is Marukami-clanners with a drunk Dutchman fucking things up.

>>90627
Makushita. I don't have the mental space to get involved with anything lower.
>>
>>90727
Did the dohyo used to be wider? Not the ring but the platform itself. I remember seeing some old pics where it looked like there was more runoff area outside the ring.
>>
If only the JSA bothered with an actual functional and responsible medical team on hand that can respond quickly instead of letting wrestlers lay on the ground unconcious for five minutes while they all sit and watch, forcing a 22 year old staff member to finally go ask if the wrestler's fine...
>>
>>90628
>Even highly literate, educated younger Japanese, who can read around 5,000 kanji may only know how to write around 3-500, since they don't write anything by hand anymore.
Wonder how future japanese will look like
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>>90744
Even if they don't recognize a kanji the others in the sentence will explain enough 99% of the time
>>
>>90745
The problem isn't the recognization of signs, it's the inability to write them. Same in China btw. Due to apps that translate latin or vocal inputs into signs, a lot of younger guys can only read the signs but aren't able to write them anymore since they never do it.

Computing can have great benefits but we become also pretty dependent on it when abilities get lost which are necessary in a world without computers.
>>
>>90745
>>90747
To add to this, when writing out characters, stroke order matters. Especially with more complex characters, if you don't write the strokes out in the correct order, it will come out so jumbled as to be illegible. With a simple character like 口 you can get away with half-assing it, but not something like 燃料.
>>
>>90744
kanji will die, as will the majority of languages on earth (in my country there are 6 official languages but 5 of them are barely used and the regular speakers are all old and dieing off, and the few young who understand it don't use it almost ever) and basically everything else that has no direct practical value. i use the analogy of languages because it's easy to see the change, but it's happening at all levels of culture in genereal, at different speeds. sumo will change too
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>>90761
Don't pretend Cyber-Hakuho wouldn't be cool as fuck.
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>>90712
I think he means in the general case, not specifically in the new world of hilarious authoritarian "infection" restrictions.
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>>90761
>majority of languages on earth (in my country there are 6 official languages but 5 of them are barely used and the regular speakers are all old and dieing off
what country?
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>>90729
>the Marugamis were utterly notorious pirate cheiftans, and one of the last independent clans to finally get dragged into the Neo-Shogunate.
What?
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>>90821
>wat
https://samurai-archives.com/wiki/Murakami_clan_(Chugoku)
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>>90843
That's Murakami.
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>>90729
>>90843
Jesus fucking Christ lad
>>
was takanohana really that good or was he just lucky he didnt have to fight half the banzuke? he didnt ever have to face his brother, takatoriki, takanonami, etc.
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>>90905
At his peak he was very good but he's dickridden a lot because he is basically the last Japanese yokozuna of any note. His brother was good too obviously but achieved less and then Kisenosato is Kisenosato. Every other yokozuna has been foreign since.
>>
>>90911
>>90905
It's also worth mentioning that his main opponent was Akebono who actually won against Takanohana more times than he lost. So the fact Akebono arguably had to fight more difficult opponents than Takanohana on average, thus reducing his championships, is somewhat true.
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>>90905
Here's a neat little rundown on his life and career.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWYcqhLVhAk
>>
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>Hakuho stands with regional sandanme winners
>Note their height and size
>Enho, through Hakuho, has opened the sport to lighter and shorter rikishi
>nhk 2022

Will Hakuho be able to increase the popularity of sumo now that hes out and has influence on tournaments and talent selection? Will he even do that?
>>
>>90929
I doubt it. Sumo could easily expand its popularity tomorrow but the JSA is, in many ways, the sport's biggest enemy.

They need a real TV contract. Then they could easily add a zero at the end of everyone's salary and still make money. Historically, sumo was for the sons of farmers or fishermen who couldn't make money elsewhere. Now, unless you're a top-level wrestler (and I mean top 15 guys in the sport) you can actually make more money than them if you go to university and put together a decent career for yourself. There's less and less appeal to getting into the sport.

That's how you end up with situations like Shodai deciding to finish his university studies before getting into sumo instead of entering sumo makushita tsukedashi
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>>90950
>JSA is, in many ways, the sport's biggest enemy
Killing social media was a mistake for sure. I think hakuho can probably get things rolling that someone like kisenosato couldn't.
>They need a real TV contract.
They have a tv contract. Do you mean licensing it to outside of Japan?

>money than them if you go to university and put together a decent career for yourself. There's less and less appeal to getting into the sport
this is the biggest issue for sure. not only that, but you don't have to put up with the lifestyle, which is strict amd shitty comparatively.
>>
>>90962
>They have a tv contract. Do you mean licensing it to outside of Japan?
They should license it out of Japan and their existing TV contract is miniscule. If I remember correctly, a few years ago I read that their TV revenue was less than 10 million dollars and the bulk of their revenue comes in the form of ticket sales.
I think the NBA probably makes more money from broadcasting in Japan than sumo does.

I don't know that the lifestyle necessarily needs to change. Earning your keep and living with the boys is part of it but the risk-reward balance is way off.

>Yes, you have to live like a monk, make no money, break your body for the chance to make some money and then if you do that long enough and learn the political game to get some elder stock...THEN you can start to make money.
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>>90962
>Killing social media was a mistake for sure.

Nah, socialist media is pure cancer that is largely monopolized by neo-Marxist trash to further their agenda. It would only be a matter of time before those faggots started attacking the JSA for being istaphobe's for not having openly faggot rikishi, or tranny rikishi, or for not having blacks, or for not allowing bitches in the JSA. They made the right call to drop that shit, which means the JSA rikishi can't be monetized to support people that hate them by cancer like (((twitter)))

FUCK social media.
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>>91005
>Nah, socialist media is pure cancer that is largely monopolized by neo-Marxist trash to further their agenda. It would only be a matter of time before those faggots started attacking the JSA for being istaphobe's for not having openly faggot rikishi, or tranny rikishi, or for not having blacks, or for not allowing bitches in the JSA. They made the right call to drop that shit, which means the JSA rikishi can't be monetized to support people that hate them by cancer like (((twitter)))
>FUCK social media.
>>
This thread got un-comfy in a hurry.
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>>91039
/pol/ schizophrenics ought to be chemically destroyed
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>>91039
Its just that one american that always comes to inject politics in /sp/ threads. The guy is complete schizo
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>>89784
Arashio must be really happy, having cleared that case in court, elder status, and now winning this; also the stable is the most popular among tourists

http://www.arashio.net/tour_e.html
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>>90914
>>90918
yea i watched that and wasnt sure if it was a valid statement. akebono had the harder matches on paper having to go up against those stables but they made takanohana seem like he was really good too.
also read that akebono match fixed a lot so who knows. musashimaru was the superior yokozuna either way
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>>89802
is jasper not considered foreign born? thought the stables had a 1 gaijin/stable rule
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>>91093
Since he had a Japanese father and moved to Japan permanently at a pretty young age, they probably just treat him as a Japanese for that purpose. That's done pretty regularly. Even Taiho got the same treatment.
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>>91096
Is the rule foreign born or non Japanese citizen? Is Terunofuji using a foreign slot even though he's a citizen now for example?
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>>91098
>Is the rule foreign born or non Japanese citizen? Is Terunofuji using a foreign slot even though he's a citizen now for example?
The rule is foreign shusshin. Several people are either ethnically non-Japanese or born outside of Japan, but their hometown is registered inside Japan and they count as Japanese. Hokuseiho and Kotokuzan being the famous current ones.
Terunofuji is still considered a foreigner because he's registered out of Mongolia. His stable can't hire another until he retires. You do get the odd stable with more than one foreigner, like Kasugano, because they can keep anyone they absorb from a stable that folded.

>>90905
>was takanohana really that good or was he just lucky he didnt have to fight half the banzuke?
You don't take a top-division jun-yusho at 19 and yusho at 20 just by being lucky, and you sure as Hell don't claw your way from jonokuchi to maegashira at 17 without being damned good. Once he hit Ozeki, he consistently dominated the yusho race for the entire tournament even when he couldn't seal the deal. Hell, Takanohana's >ozeki< career, which lasted less than two years before he got the rope, looks better than most >Yokozuna's< careers. In just 11 tournaments he put up 4 yusho and three JY while averaging out to a 13-2 record. Takanohana was a genuine prodigy any way you slice it.

His brother had a similar career arc, he just wasn't quite as good. Waka had all the same familial and banzuke advantages plus a better physical build for sumo. He still struggled to catch up to Taka, partly because he just wasn't quite as fast or aggro as his brother. Waka was a year and a half older. He posted his first JY over a year after Taka's first, pulled Ozeki months later, and then consistently put down a couple more losses per tournament with a nearly-identical field of opponents. Waka got Yokozuna as more of a lifetime achievement, and essentially killed his career doing it. Especially after he blew his knees in '99.
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>>91104
>Takanohana was a genuine prodigy any way you slice it.

Dude was no joke.

Too bad about the injuries.
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>>91110
>Too bad about the injuries.
And like most prodigies, he was also a bit of an odd duck. Getting that good at something that young is not healthy, psychologically.
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>>91116
The trail end of his career in the JSA is pretty tragic, imo.

Always nice to see his brother covering the basho, though, as he seems like a very happy dude.
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>>91118
Is the jury still out if he was the bad guy in the whole Takanoiwa affair or did the Sumo Association scapegoat him?
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>>91119
No clue. My impression is that they kind of scapegoated him because he had ideas he wanted to implement to Sumo that the JSA didn't agree with, but my info is sketchy AF and only comes from opinions from people closer than I to the issue.

I just think it's a shame that a Japanese Yokozuna, like him, isn't celebrated and involved in Osumo.
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>>91119
>was he the bad guy in the whole Takanoiwa affair or did the Sumo Association scapegoat him?
QRD:
Takanohana is an arrogant prick. Even for a child prodigy, even for a hugely successful professional who could get his dick sucked any day of the week by whipping it out.
Takanohana had very public issues with the JSA. Similar to the ones that are coming up now, in fact - hazing, bad injury response, poor general payment and treatment of wrestlers. He started agitating for those causes outside the JSA. He also kept on perpetuating the system to some degree, because he knew it worked and he'd been a part of it since he was in grade school.

It helps to know that the JSA kind of runs like a stable, very nepotistic parliamentary system. The larger stable groups kind of work like political parties. They advance members along relatively set career paths based on loyalty, backroom deals, and a desire for a stable power structure. Takanohana had the absolute temerity to not only run for the board of directors, but to campaign for it and try to sway votes outside the established power structures. And it nearly worked. He got many of the younger oyakata and even some stables to straight-up break ranks and begin forming a new reform-oriented stable group. Which made the existing ichimon shit themselves with a speed and violence normally unseen outside three-day-old Taco Bell.

Then he used the Takanoiwa incident to drag hazing and internal violence into the public eye, keeping it from being covered up. This was hugely embarrassing to the JSA and put a target on his back. He was still pretty much running things the old-fashioned way, and hiring guys who were also arrogant pricks because in his mind that equalled "winning mindset". It was only a matter of time before one of his guys got in a fistfight outside the ring; the fact that it was Takanoiwa who pulled the trigger first was just delicious irony.
>>
>>91119
>>91127
Part 2:
Takanohana's reformist ideas are being vindicated right now by the JSA, now that they can't keep a lid on certain things. That brawl in the practice ring between Ishiura and one of the other deshi at Miyagino would never have made the papers 10 years ago, let alone get Ishiura suspended for an entire basho. Their concussion protocol would still pretty much be "lol, you faggot, get your broken-ass head off the dohyo". Takanohana may have gone about it the "wrong" way but he still got shit done by putting the wind directly up the collective ass of the Board. That's why they crucified him.

And he still deserved punishment for his shit. I think getting stripped of his judging duties and then punted was too severe. Especially compared to the lenience they gave to guys like Kise-oyakata (up to his tits in the gambling scandal) or Shibatayama (hospitalizing multiple trainees, beating one unconscious and forging retirement papers). But Takanohana did technically fuck up enough to be booted from the Association, and the political situation meant he wasn't getting any favors. It's not some frame-job or horrible conspiracy, it's pissing off literally everyone who could actually help you and then screaming "I'LL FUCKING SUE ALL OF YOU YOU FUCKING WHORES" and then >actually doing it< when they try to tell you to shut the fuck up for a minute.
>>
>>91127
>>91133
Good assessment Anon. The sad thing is he could almost certainly have gotten traction for at least the injury shit if he hadn't approached it the turboshitter way, if he hadn't been a cunt he would've had a ton of prestige to throw around.
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>>91092
>also read that akebono match fixed a lot so who knows
never heard that before in my life
is your source takatoriki
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>>91127
Takanohana spent over a decade consolidating power in his push for rijichou. There are posts on sumoforum from 2005 about him expecting to need 10 years to get into that office, and sure enough you can find threads in 2016 about his efforts climaxing in that year's riji elections and a massive power struggle between Hakkaku and Takanohana. 'Arrogant' is probably not the wrong way to describe him given this, but it miscommunicates his savvy and the depth of planning involved.

Also, there's the confusing and murky stuff about his involvement with cults.
>>
>>91161
Gaijin here. Why do Japanese people go in for cults so much?
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>>91161
The thing is that when he lost the election he also lost his shit completely, it's really *after* those elections that he sperged out fully trying to push his views in spite of losing, going directly to the media and the cops instead of the Association etc.
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>>91155
>if he hadn't been a cunt he would've had a ton of prestige to throw around.
Part of the problem is that he tried to sling his prestige in the face of half-a-dozen other Yokozuna. I'm not going to fault him for his sheer gigantic balls or his strategic skills in the slightest. But "I'm a fucking badass and you lot are full of shit" coming from a guy that in their minds is an upstart, thuggish little dickhead is not going to make Chiyonofuji, Onokuni, or Hokutoumi so much as blink. And that's a big chunk of who he was up against.

>>91165
Also this. It's the thing where he went from "kind of an ass" to completely nuclear in the space of a few months. He burned or alienated almost all of his supporters within months of the elections instead of continuing to consolidate power. If you do wanna talk some legit conspiracy shit, there's a lot of evidence to suggest that the JSA stripping their members of the right to sell Elder stock was specifically a countermove against Taka. It keeps someone like him from coming along again and outright buying/distributing enough Elder stock to political allies that they are able to form a new ichimon. The JSA have clearly been using the new process to move around some of the elder stocks that hopped stable groups over the last couple of decades back to their original affiliations. It doesn't hurt that it lets them jerk around guys who would have just bought a stock outright and told the Riji to go fuck themselves in the eighties, either.
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>>91169
>he went from "kind of an ass" to completely nuclear in the space of a few months
Which months are we referring to? I thought that happened much later, with the Takanoiwa affair, but my memory is foggy.
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>>91441
Jesus... Is there any question that these brothers were abusive as hell to anyone that had the misfortune of being below them?
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>>91441
I pity the woman who marries him
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>>91441
Kino Heemer
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>>91441
That's a lot of fucking talk. If he gets beaten badly, it will be comedy gold.
>>
>>91446
>>91453
>>91462

It's a WORK, you idiotic giant pussies. His manager selected a heel role for him, due to his expulsion in Sumo, in order to sell tickets to MORONS like you that want to see the "bad guy" get beaten up in the ring.

Haven't you simp faggots ever seen or heard of pre-fight hype? You haven't, have you. Pathetic.

You fuckers need to fuck right off back to /reddddit/ and quit shitting up your thread with your beta male cancer.
>>
>>91506
*checks time in America*
Never mind, I'll check back in later.
>>
>>91162
>Gaijin here. Why do Japanese people go in for cults so much?
Japanese as a group are not a particularly religious people. Perhaps one third are Buddhist. Shinto is not a religion but rather a collection of rituals, traditions and superstitions.
I do not have any data to support me but I have suspected that cult practice gives meaning to some people who need meaning in their lives that they cannot get through work or family.
Of course, it is important to realize that most Japanese adherents to new religions are harmless, pleasant people.
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>>91506
Today I am especially thankful that I took the time to visit /xs/ during the off-season to see the absolute drivel that retards like yourself can come up with; which seems to have taken every brain cell that you have available to type up. Seriously, don't strain yourself too hard with this stuff... We certainly don't want you to have an aneurysm or anything like that.
>>
>>91162
PEOPLE, not "Japanese" people, go full tilt into cults because they give said people a sense of identity that they lack and need. People are social creatures, and be it an organized cult, like religion, or politics, or an informal cult, like the cult of the blue hairs, or the cult of the yoga pants, people are born with a need to be social and a part of a human group.
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>>91564
>doesn't understand fight promoting
>calls somebody else a retard
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>>91682
Take this retarded shitflinging back to /b/ or /pol/ or whichever hole you crawled out of on your way here. I'd rather this thread were comparatively quiet between bashos than have the thread bumped by someone suffering withdrawal from not taking their meds regularly and trying to make every place a fertile ground for reaction pictures and pseudo-tribal faggotry like this
>>
>>91683
Some people just can't stand a thread being comfy.
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>>91683
27 more days until Natsu
The banzuke should be out about a week beforehand.
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>>91683
>>91692
>>91751
Let's get comfy. No more brother wars.
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>>91832
Thankfully, the moderator cleaned up a bunch of the shitposts.

There is a frustrating lack of news coming out of sumo world, though.
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>>91851
In lieu of news, here's a musing on the usual stupid rhetoric about the weight of rikishi throughout history:
I think when people say rikishi were skinnier in the past, it shows a misunderstanding of what it is they are seeing in the select photographs which get posted. The reality is that what they're seeing was a greater variance in possible weights for competitive sumo; there was a greater proportion of trimmer rikishi, but "fat" rikishi existed then as now. When the sport's technical aspects weren't as optimized, wrestlers could get away with being small or skinny.
Here are two rikishi in 1867.
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>>91908
Here are two yokozuna in the year 1900.
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>>91910
And here is a very deliberately cherry-picked sekiwake in the 1970s.
Context-free shots of skinny rikishi in ye olden times don't hold much meaning.
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>>91851
theres nothing to report on. you don't hear much about the nfl outside the regular season and the draft. anything usually feels forced.
the guys are training, thats really it. you can follow some of the stables pages for random things, but it isn't much
>>
>>91908
>>91910
>>91911
That's interesting. I had always assumed it was sort of the other way around: in the old days, wrestlers put on bulk but only recently has modern strength training allow them to put on more muscle mass.

When I watch old film from like Yokozuna Futabayama's era, the wrestlers don't seem to me to have as big arms and shoulders as they do today.
>>
>>91926
The impression I've received from what I've read is that there have always been micro-trends in wrestling style that causes our views of eras to be warped. I can't find the document atm, but I recall a 1920s interview with a retired rikishi grumbling about the 'recent' rise of purely belt sumo, and how guys used to have to know how to shove a man out. Probably there are more wiry guys in yotsuzumo periods, and more fat guys in oshizumo periods.
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>>91926
and about the arm strength (though this isn't the best photo):
>>
I feel like in a lot of old pictures but mostly in old video, it can get really washed out, so you don't get the contrast required to see muscle definition.
Even knowadays, rikishi can look really different depending on which provider you are watching and their light balance.
>>
>>91987
>>91989
Makes sense. I kind of wish there was something like the NFL combine so you could see how much these guys were squatting back in the 1900s
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Banzuke prediction.
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>>92038
Rough drop for Meisei.
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>>92044
I mean yeah, but his performance was awful.
In the last hundred years, the softest anyone fell from a 1-14 at M3 was M10. Everyone else was M12-M14.
Meisei's literally the only one ever who's dropped 14 from M3 without going kyujo.
>>
>>92047
Poor guy. What a fall from grace.
Not even Onosho-esque, worse.
>>
>>92047
Taking that many losses without any injury walkovers is actually pretty rare.
Since they extended tournaments to 15 matchdays in 1949, someone taking 14 L's has only happened 48 times in makuuchi and a further 48 times in juryo.
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>>92038
God dammit, you putting East on the right tripped my shit up three separate times. I got my dander all up for complaining and then realized there wasn't anything to complain about.
>>
Terunofuji vs Gable Steveson, who would win in mma, in judo, in beach wrestling?
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>>92195
lol, I fucked myself up reading it back to myself even when I was putting it together, east being on the east.
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>>92195
Aside from flipping east and west, I like this format. The inclusion of previous rank and record is very helpful.

You were pretty generous to Ishiura and Chiyomaru, though.
>>
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The hard-boiled Ikadzuchi oyakata smokes unhappily while on shinpan duty, silently ruminating about the days when sumo was good.
>>
Anyone think Teru is going to put it together for another run or is he cooked?
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>>92592
Teru could be just fine. The phrasing of what he said was, he had reached his limit for pain he could endure for that basho. If he's taking the time to let his knees heal to where they were before, and he doesn't take any bad falls mid-basho, my expectation is a normal performance from him. We can't expect his reconstructed knees to hold up forever, but this is the first real blip.
>>
>>92592
he's fine
he was fine
he'll be fine
as long as he doesn't give out too many kinboshi, cos his stablemaster will stop him at a certain point
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>>92592
He needs to do a Kiseonosato and take an entire year off.
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>>92661
That really didn't do Kisenosato any favors since the only tournament where he looked halfway competitive post-injury was a 10-5 at Aki 2018.
Kisenosato's kind of a bad example, since he basically killed himself getting his tsuna. He was never right after his shin-yokozuna yusho.
>>
>>92682
Kisenosato refused surgery, though. A rikishi is never going to come back better if he does that.
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>>92661
He took half year, and it was already too late for the injury.
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>>92720
However we frame it, he didn't complete a tournament for 14 months.

It wasn't too late for the surgery, Kise just did not want it. Whether that was because of the expectations and stresses of being the first Japanese yokozuna in forever or simple personal fears, his decision ruined his own career.
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>>92724
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Lads, I managed to completely ignore the last 2 bashos worth of threads here and on /sp/, thought it was probably for the best.
Did anyone else notice NattoSumo's pre-bout stat graphic finally spelling out BAASEDYY for Terunofuji or am I the only one autistic enough to spot that and find that funny?
>>
>>92770
>BAASEDYY
wut
>>
>>92778
Yeah, apparently wordfilters adapt to extra letter now heh.
>>
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Who is his excellency's favorite rikishi these days?
>>
>>92780
ONIONS
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>>92770
don't they have a bad word that sound KSO too? an imprecation for when things go wrong
>>
>>92812
Do you mean kuso, "annoying"?
>>
>>92829
Kuso is not "annoying", it's "fuck". Translates literally to "shit", but the sentiment is much closer to fuck
>>
I noticed that the letter P is not used in any shikona: is there a specific reason?
>>
>>92869
It's not a particularly common sound in the Japanese language.
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>>92836
LMAO, I've been betrayed by timid translators all this time.
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>>92770
>or am I the only one autistic enough to spot that and find that funny?
You're not alone, anon.
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I haven't posted anything old in a while. Here's a Tochigiyama shot, one of my favorite yokozuna aesthetically.
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>>89378
Competitors are very technical but Judo is actually more challenging. As a former junior 2nd belt Judo-Ka who participated in a single competition I can say I thoroughly enjoyed the art. I was also gullible I never knew both Sumo and Judo share a foundational belief in the Bushido code. I quit once I realize how Eastern it was and how foreign I am to this tradition.
>>
>>92950
>I never knew both Sumo and Judo share a foundational belief in the Bushido code
Bushido isn't real.
>>
>teamenho

this was an interesting page
>>
>>92869
>I noticed that the letter P is not used in any shikona: is there a specific reason?

I was surprised by this, so I took a jaunt through the database.

Not a single active wrestler has a P in their shikona. Obviously not satisfied with that, I went full send on the entire database of rikishi.

Three Beppu's (the most recent retired in 2006)
One Chippuasahi (ret. 1985)
One Daisenpu (ret. 2008)
One Daitenpaku (ret. 2018)
One Denpoya (ret. 2019)
One Happozan (ret. 1783)
One Ipponmatsu (ret. 1881)
One Kanape (ret. 1971)
One Kinpozan (ret. 2011)

Unfortunately, from here, "Find in Page" just stopped flagging P's altogether. After the 501st P, hitting the down arrow just took me back up to the top.

That was about a third of the way down the list of all 12744 listed rikishi. So in roughly 4,248 men, there were 11 with at least one P in their shikona.

I tried eliminating all the April and September waste hits by removing "1&b=-" from the URL. It stayed gone from the URL but still listed the birthdates anyway.

If anyone knows a more elegant way of doing this, let me know and I'd be happy to continue. It was actually kind of fun while it worked.
>>
>>93076
>>92869
this feels like a real dumb thing to look for any specific reason since romanization isn't even standardized
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>>93086
Romanization is irrelevant to the fact of pronunciation. Characters marked with a handakuten ゚ are always "p" sounds, and only those characters are "p" sounds.
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>>93092
>Romanization is irrelevant to the fact of pronunciation.

Exactly. If it is pronounced as 'p' why would anyone romanize it with a letter other than 'p'?
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>>93076
>Ippon
I was totally expecting this, but not the simple Beppu: I checked and the Japanese spelling is the same as the city (while it happens that the reading is familiar but the kanji is a bit different; I'm not an expert tho). I've found that Osaka and Sendai were used too, but not Tokyo or Sapporo.

Thanks for the search.
>>
>>93108
>>93108
>>93108

New thread.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3aeQ3DmKU7A
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>>93109
Why? Not even at bump or image limit and board is slow as hell.
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>>93112
Because he's a coomer, obivously. Just report it for trolling.
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>>93138
>Just report it for trolling.
ok

he's even using an old pastebin
I've added MidnightSumo, so please use this in the next thread:

https://pastebin.com/A9Gwmx9S
>>
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>>93109
These threads get 500+ posts usually. Next basho is coming up and it's unlikely to reach bump limit before then. We'll be on /sp/ soon. Just use this thread for now. Also, your picture is NSFW on a blue board. Awful thread. Learn to post, amateur.
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The boys
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>>93191
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Found my source for >>91987.

>Kasugano (Tochigiyama): Really, this is a small thing, but the techniques and style of sumo changes with the era. They've made the dohyou 2 shaku (feet) larger now, and we've been seeing more and more rikishi over 6 shaku (feet) tall to the point that it's standard so, of course, because of that, I think we're seeing a lot more yotsuzumo. It was an oshizumo period when I was coming up, and Dewanoumibeya emphasized teaching oshi and yori. The way Hitachiyama-zeki taught us to fight was, your half of the dohyou is your territory and the enemy's half is his. If you got pushed, you pushed the other man back and out through his territory. "Attack rather than defend", is what I have written on my protection charm.


When he says "yori", I believe he's referring to beltless yori like Kotoshougiku.
>>
>>93191
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hJC9h2Qtcs
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>>93160
We've hit bump limit already, you mean it's unlikely to drop off the board before next basho. Which is true.
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>>93201
>When he says "yori", I believe he's referring to beltless yori like Kotoshougiku.
I'm obviously just going off your own translation there so I'm definitely open to correction, but doesn't he just mean it like "pushing and forcing", essentially? As opposed to trips and throws?

I mean, I'm well aware that yorikiri on the belt is a prominent yotsu technique, but it's not exactly the *central* thing that comes to mind as an example of yotsuzumo, is it.
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>>93219
Is this interstable training?
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>>93231
what else could it be?
I would like to see Kinbozan there
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Apeyasu
>>
new banzuke out on Monday
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>>93228
That's a better way of phrasing it, yeah. Giku is my go-to example, though, for a clearer mental image, since he's the archetype.
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>>93234
>I would like to see Kinbozan there

I miss the pre-pandemic days of the big public interstables. I'm pretty sure those were mandatory, so you got to see everyone.

As it is, I'm just grateful all the singletons like Takayasu, Tamawashi, Kiribayama, Nishikigi and Ichinojō get to mix it up a bit.

I imagine living up to your potential is nearly impossible without equals to practice with regularly.
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Kotozakura yusho inbound
>>
banzuke is out:

https://www.sumo.or.jp/EnHonbashoBanzuke/index/
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>>93377
>>
>>93377
They way over-promoted Nishikigi, I feel.
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>>93383
i think its just how it shook out. theres always guys that are going to look weirdly out of place.
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>>93377
Top division is looking nice for once lots of faces looking for promotion with terunofuji in decline
>>
How much asshurt are you predicting in the wake of the next inevitable Shishi v Roga bout?
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>>93396
Very little among actual sumo fans, but retards will show up to stir up shit anyway.
>>
How old is too old to become a rikishi?
>>
>>93406
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onigatani_Saiji
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>>93406
Currently, stables can't take on wrestlers older than 24 years old. That number has changed over time though, I believe.
They also occasionally make allowances for wrestlers slightly under the weight/height limits, so a stable might let someone a few months past 24 in, but generally they like to get their new recruits as young as possible.
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>>93392
>terunofuji in decline
one tournament he pulled early as m1, and one tournament he pulled early because an injury in the prior tournament is hardly enough grounds to be calling for decline already.
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>>93415
If he underperforms this basho then is pretty much game over for him. Everyone knows his situation so the retirement talk begins earlier than usual.
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Enho, Ishiura and Saltman discuss how to take down heavier rikishi
Saturday at NHK-World

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/special/episode/202204301010/
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>>93422
so long as this remains a real thing that literally happened, there is never any reason to start early retirement talk about anyone
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>>93424
if they used Elo ratings giving the yokozuna title simply to the top 2 guys without any other shenanigans, he would be still active today and probably regained the yokozuna title (I assume there will be specific rules to drop the rating a bit due to absences, but not too much; career protection, or whatever you want to call it)
>>
>>93431
>Elo ratings
fick off
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>>93422
Terunofuji isn't retiring anytime soon. He's just enjoying getting to take a break due to injuries for a change. Kise's injuries were worse than the table shows.
>>
>>93415
>>93448
You can only ever point to the start of a decline after a guy's career is done. We can't say if this is just an injury or a combination of accumulation of injuries plus fatigue over the course of an absolutely full-gas 2021.

However, the simple reality is that, as strong as he is, he's also on the wrong side of thirty, he's had some gruesome injuries and he's not a healthy man.
>>
>>93466
>We can't say if this is just an injury or a combination of accumulation of injuries plus fatigue over the course of an absolutely full-gas 2021.
that was my point. i agree with the rest

there could also be a motivation part to this. rising up the ranks, he had Yokozuna in sight, and i bet he wanted to beat hakuho one more time. as Yokozuna, he had the 4 yuusho in a row to aim for, and im sure getting a zensho after just missing out on it was something he wanted to do.
now, i don't know if he has much there to get him motivated. try for ten yuusho? maybe win all of them in one calendar year? he's basically done everything and anything else is too far away to be achievable
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>>93471
>try for ten yuusho?
He has said he wants to get to 10. That would put him in among some serious all-timers and I think it's a reasonable goal. He's sitting on 6 right now, he can win 2 per year and recharge his batteries in between.

He's probably also aware that his reign as yokozuna will not be remembered as occurring during a period of particular competitiveness. Whether or not that motivates him to win as much as possible and render that argument moot is a different question.
>>
I was looking at akebono's record and noticed he made yokozuna pretty fast after being promoted the FIRST time (3 tournaments) has any first time ozeki been promoted in 2 tournaments?
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>>93424
>so long as this remains a real thing that literally happened, there is never any reason to start early retirement talk about anyone

Jesus, that bit of chart is rough to look at. For a yokozuna, that has to be a heartbreaking record to look back on.

Ah well, he'll be able to wipe his tears with all those rijichō powers.
>>
>>93511
Akebono took 4 basho from becoming ozeki to becoming yokozuna. Nagoya '92, Aki '92, Kyushu '92, and Hatsu '93. He sat out the first one entirely with an injury and won the last two to become yokozuna.

Kitanoumi, Chiyonofuji and Asashoryu each spent only 3 basho at ozeki before moving on to yokozuna, though Asashoryu was the only one to actually WIN two consecutive basho. Kitanoumi, Chiyonofuji each only had a yusho and jun-yusho.

Futabayama actually made yokozuna in 2 basho in 1937 while in the middle of his 69-match winning streak but that year there were only 2 basho.

The fastest anyone has ever gone from ozeki to yokozuna in the 6 basho era was 2 basho, which was done by Terunofuji, but that has an asterisk because, obviously.
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>>93533
The title of the autobiography he released less than a year after retiring is why I don't feel bad about making fun of him: "Not One Regret About My Sumodo".
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>>93533
>tfw when they give promote you to yokozuna right before your body completely collapses
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>>93431
>Elo ratings
Chomp my wigwam, poindexter.
>>
>>93471
>try for ten yuusho?
Seems like the obvious one, tb h. Dai-yokozuna status is real shit.

>maybe win all of them in one calendar year?
This one on the other hand would be a completely unrealistic ambition, even Hakuho couldn't pull this off and IIRC the only man who ever did was Asashoryu? It's just not anywhere near plausible, let alone for someone as damaged as Terunofuji.
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>>93545
>The title of the autobiography he released less than a year after retiring is why I don't feel bad about making fun of him: "Not One Regret About My Sumodo".

I'll say this for him - when his injuries knocked him out, he regrouped and came back fighting again and again.

Those three basho kyūjō looks like he tried the "take a nice long break to really heal up" tactic. Unfortunately it worked for all of one basho, then it was back to the same. Not shocking he threw his hands up after that.
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>>93552
>tfw when they give promote you to yokozuna right before your body completely collapses

He earned the spot, but they really had no choice. At the time in 2017, they were getting dangerously close to marking 20 years without the crowning of a Japanese yokozuna (last was Wakanohana, 1998).

As much as people adored the three yokozuna they had at the time, it is the national sport. Going 20 years without one from Japan, that would have hurt.
>>
>>93412
Where have you seen this? I'm 26.
>>
Still fucking seething that they forced Harumafuji to retire, bros
>>
>>93412
>>93560
I don't have a source on hand either, but for reference Ichiyamamoto practiced amateur sumo in University but graduated and worked as a city official.
He was a couple months over the age of 23 and required a special decision from the JSA to allow him to join a stable, and his professional debut was in 2017.
They seem to be a little less strict with specific cutoffs in recent years but 24 is kinda the point where I don't think a stable would even want to recruit.
They have been more r
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>>93562
How does one even become a rikishi? You just show up to a stable?
>>
>>93377
My guy Jasper lives to see another basho in the top division
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>>93566
>You just show up to a stable?
Unless you were recruited, yes. Though, most guys who join the NSK have already been doing sumo in middle school, high school or college. Those with zero prior experience or credentials are often turned away by the heyas unless they are huge.
>>
>>93560
>>93562
https://www.sumo.or.jp/IrohaKnowledge/nyumon/

A prospective rikishi must be over 167 centimeters tall, over 67 kilograms (165 and 65 for middle-school prospects), and under 23 years old. The Association is at liberty to make special exceptions to these conditions for those who have achieved a 'certain level of success' in amateur or collegiate tournaments and are under the age of 25.
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>>93591
They added the special exceptions because of Mainoumi, who injected silicone into his forehead in order to reach the height requirements. Others had done it in the past, but Mainoumi's case got a lot of attention and it was seen as an embarrassment, so they added the exception rule.
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>>93593
Also, his name escapes me at the moment, but here's a pic of an elder who got it done but never got the sillicone removed.
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>>93593
I thought it wasn't Mainoumi, but the other kid after him who had the silicon twice as tall?
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>>93593
>>93598
LMAO
I didn't know about this
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This is who I was thinking of.
https://apnews.com/article/805425e7fe25d2c05c2e6625f621c5c7

However, the details are incredibly sketchy (one English article says he was allowed, another says he wasn't), and I cannot find any Japanese source reporting the same story. Maybe it is out there, just buried in an ungoogleable news archive somewhere, but I haven't seen any sign of that.
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>>93605
>This is who I was thinking of.

I wish the database would allow searches by real name. It would make finding him a breeze.
>>
>>93605
It might just be a fake story, yeah. I remember when I was pretty young watching an Akebono match on ESPN (!?) or something, they told some story about how one of the wrestlers was too short to go pro and so he hit himself over the head to give himself a lump that pushed him over the limit.

Makes me think it might've just been one of those "ONE CRAAAZY THING ABOUT JAPAN" stories the sports press might've latched onto at some point, reporting it over and over with varying degrees of accuracy in the details (silicone vs hitting yourself on the head, fake names vs real guys who did it.)
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Stupid question: although it's highly unlikely, but if a Sekiwake goes for example 7-0-8 15-0 15-0 6-2-7 or 14-1 7-8 15-0 13-2 over the course of 4 bashos is it still possible he'll be promoted to Ozeki after the third or fourth basho or aren't you allowed to have a make koshi during an ozeki run?
>>
>>93618
you aren't allowed
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>>93560
why does your age matter?
>>
>>93618
The Association would say they want to make sure he's healthy and can perform consistently before promoting him. They've given lines like that before when incomplete basho are part of the circumstances.
>>
>>90087
ura the dick grabber
>>
Do you think Teru actually recovered?
I am always skeptical when I hear about fast healing injuries, like what else would they say " shit is fucked"?
>>
>>93681
I don't think he was reinjured if that's what you mean. I think he had an unusually bad regular flareup, since the knee thing is a permanent ongoing condition for him.
Even at his yokozuna promotion ceremony, standing up from a kneeling position was a huge struggle for him, and we consider his knees to have been in good health at the time. That's just how things are for him now
>>
>>93683
he was performing extremely well previous tournaments so really seems more than just "regular flareup"
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>>93681
>Do you think Teru actually recovered?

Definitely not. His last word on it was that it was "ok". Considering the required understatement, that's basically the same as "shit's fucked".
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>>93683
>I don't think he was reinjured if that's what you mean. I think he had an unusually bad regular flareup, since the knee thing is a permanent ongoing condition for him.

Well this time the left knee injury was listed as osteoarthritis. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that was ever the case before. The right knee went completely unmentioned this round, which means it's probably stable in it's new normal.

The "new" injury is that right heel. I believe that happened in January, and is still an issue even now.
>>
>>93655
Because the ignorant gaijin thinks he could fly over to japan and become dominant at sumo.
>>
>>89394
I'm new to watching sumo but it seems like Wakataka gradually worked his way up to sekiwake and is not going to stop or drop down unless he gets injured of course.
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>>89394
>small guys like him get figured out quickly
Think, Asashoryu and pic related want to have a word with you...
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>>93707
after spending some time in Doho with sumo wrestlers you probably lose your sense of scent completely.
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>>89378
Newfag here, i have three questions:
1. How to become knowlegeable on professional sumo
2. Where do i watch professional sumo matches
3. Where do i gamble on it?
>>
>>93709
1. 2.
see pastebin >>93154
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>>93688
>I don't believe that was ever the case before
I checked, and Nikkan Sports has Teru's withdrawal from the September 2020 basho as the result of "arthritis of the left knee". Prior to that, his left knee had suffered the following: ACL tear, meniscus tear, and second meniscus tear. So I don't think this kyuujou will end up representing as significant an injury as some people are making it out to be.

You're right that the heel is new, but the diagnosis they reported is "right heel bone bruise". I would be decently surprised if a bone bruise didn't recover over 2 months' rest.
>>
>>93709
1) Watch sumopedia videos on NHK for a basic, encyclopedic overview. Then go back and watch a shitload of video and commentary. Demon Kakka/Kogure (loosely equivalent to Japan's Gene Simmons) made some surprisingly accessible English-language breakdowns of techniques and basic history over the years.
Sumoforum is a bit up their own asses but are an unparalleled resource for Looking Shit Up.
As a new fan, don't worry about stable drama and internal politics. For now focus on learning about technique and picking guys to fanboy over. There are a lot of resources for finding the basic JP technical vocabulary.

2) OP Pastebin. Look for mbovosumo's current hiding place if you want a no-frills English livestream. If you speak some Japanese look up the Abema or NHK-Japan broadcasts, they have ex-Yokozuna on the commentary team as well as some pretty solid technical guys. And Kyokudouzan. Unfortunately.
Abema's production values are lower and the quality of commentary is consistently higher than NHK. They also broadcast the lower divisions, so if you're a hopeless fuck that's so addicted you need to watch Sandanme shitters to get off then they're your only ballgame. Contrariwise, NHK has a lot of money and is the only source for English-language commentary, but only does the top division.
If you really can't be arsed, then NHK World runs a digest three times a day during tournaments. It'll usually skip a couple of the more boring matches, but it has better technical commentary than the live matches and (crtitically) it doesn't require you to be awake at whatever 1600 JST is in your time zone.

3) Why? There are a few guys who do bookings, but it's not especially popular to put actual money on. Partly because it's very hard to calculate odds.
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>takakeisho's wife
oh my
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>>93715
Thats not her, this is her
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>>93732
she was sitting on 2021-2022 bashos in front row getting constantly caught on camera
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Looking for torrents of previous tournaments
>>
R8 this picture of Ichinojo and Kaisei an AI just spat out
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>>93787
looks more like your two mom post-coitus
>>
>>93787
Left is Aoiyama, I'd recognise those fat tits anywhere.
>>
>>93709
Bet 365 used to have to sumo since it was the only thing going on during early COVID-19 but they don't have it anymore.
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>>93713
>NHK World runs a digest three times a day during tournaments. It'll usually skip a couple of the more boring matches
They stopped doing this awhile back, I want to say ~2 years ago, and started showing every top division match each day at the expense of showing replays for every match. So the Grand Sumo Highlights cover the whole top division now. You can see them here:
>https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/tv/sumo/
However, they're always posted with a day's delay unless you catch one of the regular broadcast slots, which will fuck up your ability to talk sumo live with bros on /sp/.
>>
>>93780
okay, I found something
https://rutracker.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=1675
search for "cyмo"
>>
>>93708
Asians don't generally suffer from body odor like Mediterraneans.
>>
>>93835
that's complete and utter bullshit.
>>
>>93837
No, it's genetic. The same gene (ABCC11) that makes Asian earwax dry and flaky instead of sticky and greasy means that some compound in skin oil doesn't produce body odor. The mutation is most prevalent among Koreans, Japanese, and Mongolians.

That's not to say that they don't get foot odor or stink if they don't wipe their ass properly, but that rank, NYC taxi, underarm odor is rare.
>>
>>93838
You're right, it is genetic, genetically varies from person to person. Also depends on what food person eats and his age. Oh and climate.
See now why you're being stupid
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>>93835
It's most prevalent in china and the further south you go. Japan has the about same spread of the gene as other surrounding asian countries.
It's a misconception to think of the gene as being responsible for a blanket removal of general body odour though, it just causes a reduction.
Even chinks still wear deoderant and a stable full of sweaty rikishi would certainly smell bad for the sweat alone, nevermind the chanko farts (imagine).
>>
>>93815
Based anon, I've used rutracker occasionally for years, but never thought to check the forums.
>>
>>93844
I managed to download 1995-2007 Basho with RU commentary, seems like on 2008 there is no seeders whatsoever which sucks.
>>
>>93845
I'm grabbing that same one right now, the others I've tried are also stalled, but I'll leave a bunch of them sitting in my qb for a while. Sometimes you get lucky eventually.
Recently had a dvd rip of Gundam G-Saviour take 3 years to get all of it.
>>
>>93844
How? I don't get any results when I put in "cyмo" even after I log in.
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>>93848
Use the link from earlier for the forum stuff.
>>
>>93846
I will bump them as soon as I finish watching 2007, the creator of topic was online in 2017 last time but maybe someone else will wake up.
>>
>>93848
https://rutracker.org/forum/tracker.php?f=1675&nm=%F1%F3%EC%EE
>>
>>93849
>>93851

Oh. I was searching for instead cyмo of CУMO

Thanks
>>
So far this is what I've found has active seeders.
Cheers sumo bros.
The 9.89gig "sumo" one is the 1995 and 2017 collection.
>>
>>93853
Kinda sad they don't have the 2018 Hatsu. My friend's just getting into sumo and really loves Tochi, wanted to show him his peak.
>>
>>93853
Kyushu Basho 2012 also has a seeder, just started.
>>
>>93853
You have to find the ESPN digests of the 1990's basho's. Those were fun.
>>
>>93692
Dominate? Of course not. But I'd love to try.
>>
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>>93787
>>93800
>>
Has anyone seen the weigh in figures? How come Tochinoshin is down 14kg.
>>
>>93875
did he have COVID?
A lot of rikishi got infected with it before Basho and some say even Teru couldn't perform because of that
>>
I've found an Italian blog with a long post about Shishi; I didn't know he was in mas-wrestling:

https://italianozeki.com/2022/04/13/shishi-dallucraina-cuor-di-leone/
>>
>>93888
I found it peculiar that people are fascinated by underperforming foreigners when Yokozuna title have been dominated by mongolians in the last decade or even more
>>
>>93878
Thats pure bullshit desu. I refuse to believe covid got them bad.
>>
>>93889
I think it's a broader kind of exoticism, in the sense of
>all Asian countries are honor-obsessed and contain a warrior subculture, but how would a WHITE man perform?
They think Mongolia is somehow more similar to Japan than, say, Hawaii is to Japan, because they don't know anything about Mongolia.
>>
>>93893
thats kinda racist don't you think?
yeah it is
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>>93891
I believe some of them had to spent weeks in hospital
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>>93896
Some of them were in the hospital strictly for precautionary/isolation reasons. Japan didn't experience a colossal hospital bed shortage like the US did.
>>
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welp
>>
Shishi and Kinbozan have potential to reach makuuchi
last non-Mongolian debut was Amuru in November 2014

>>93889
>underperforming foreigners
Shishi is over-performing imho
>>
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>15 of 42 slots

Fucking ouch! Took a major ass kicking this banzuke.
>>
>>93909
the correct way to compare your performance with others is to count 3 points for a correct guess, 2 points for missing half a rank (M3w instead of M4e for example),1 point for missing one rank (M5e instead of M6e), zero points for being wrong for more than a rank

the GTB game has a completely retarded system where M3w instead of M4e gives you zero points, as if the M rikishi are ranked in groups of two instead of one after another -__-
>>
>>93889
people are racially tribal, white people like to root for other white people
European rikishi can also be considered underdogs since they aren't trained in sumo. Mongolians have a type of folk wrestling which uses a belt similar to sumo. Half the Mongolian-born rikishi have lived in Japan since childhood/adolescence so have much more developed sumo compared to Europeans who will usually just be a big guy that went to a couple of Judo classes
>>
>>93903
Shishi's only been in sumo for two years. It seems pretty likely he'll make it to juryo at some point. He's learning and making steady progress. We can't say if he's under- or over-performed until we see him peak.

I think the mistake >>93889 falls into is focusing only on yokozuna as a mark of success.
>>
>>93915
That's interesting. The way I had always done it was if you guess a wrestler's rank correctly, you get 0, then gain a point for every full rank away. The winner is the one with the lowest score.

i.e. you guess a guy is M5E and he's M7W, that adds 2.5 points to your tally.
>>
>>93915
Meh....I just go for percentage correct with a goal of landing at least 75% correct. I failed miserably this basho, though....
>>
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>>93919
yes yes, it would be even more accurate
the only problem with your system is that you'll have to explain to murikans that you win with the lowest score: good luck with that :D

the fundamental problem with GTB is that it's seems as they want to guess the paper banzuke, which has East and West; the real ranking of course is just a list as you see in the W/L Matrix at the db: Enho is sekitori number 55 and obviously it doesn't matter that O2e is blank; that's just part of the style you have adopted to present the ranking to the public
>>
>>93922
>the only problem with your system is that you'll have to explain to murikans that you win with the lowest score: good luck with that :D
What? America has golf, you know.
>>
>>93873
>sup bro
>come at me brah
>>
>>93853
just don't stop seeding after download, maybe one day someone will make a full tournament collection from what is available.
>>
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>Enho 100kg
someone is finally eating his rice
>>
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>>94057
he's one of the big boys now
>>
>>94063
>one of the big boys now
still the lightest in the top 3. its crazy how light he is
>>
>>94131
I mean 100 kg at 5'6 is pretty heavy it's really crazy how heavy everyone else in Sumo is
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>>94135
>how heavy everyone
i wouldn't say that. think of most other size related sports. most interior dline and offensive lineman in college to the nfl are 140kg and up. shot put throwers are in the 130 to 150kg range. brian shaw and thor were both over 200kg at thrir peak, and only one person totaled 1000kg raw in powerlifting under 110kg, where most are like 150kg to 190kg.
i do find it interesting that only people like ishiura looks or wakatakatakatakkaaakage look like tgey know what a gym is. terunofuji, who does look like he lifts a bit, isnt that exceptionally strong for his size. their size is biased to high bodyfat it seems
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>>94136
>look like tgey know what a gym is.

Gym's don't build functional strength the way simple body-weight exercises and sparring does. Chiyonofuji didn't build his physique by going to the gym, he did it by doing bodyweight exercises and sparrring.....and steroids.
>>
>>94140
>Gym's don't build functional strength the way simple body-weight exercises
yes, but it helps a significant amount. hakuho has a fair number of posts doing speed bench with chains. even has an sbd belt
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bf1ECigFQHp/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BffzE9gFzKR/
makes me wonder if his success was because he used modern methods instead of only training made in the 1800s
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>>94140
>Chiyonofuji didn't build his physique by going to the gym, he did it by doing bodyweight exercises and sparring
>>
>>94140
lmao retard
>>94136
>ishiura looks or wakatakatakatakkaaakage look like tgey know what a gym is
All rikishi lift, especially heavy DL/squat.
People like Ishiura and Waka are just doing it more that anyone else but also you need to understand how important is to be heavy as shit in Sumo.
Most of them are just in ultrabulking mode all year, they are too fat to show the muscle
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>>94165
>All rikishi lift, especially heavy DL/squat
>heavy
im not sure about this. ive seen training like pic and its trash form with baby weights.
>need to understand how important is to be heavy as shit in Sumo.
no, i understand that. you can still see the muscles under fat even on permasuperbulk. full BLOAT Eddie Hall and F U L L Grizzly are good examples of what id expect from a rikishi lifting hard.
could be because of the tournament schedule manes it hard to program. the development of guys before they enter may be the only time they could full focus it.
>>
>>94176
I counted 6 plates from each side, I don't know if these are olympic plates plates or what, but even counting each plate as 15kg for instance that's plenty to not be considered "baby weights".
As for form, its called sumo squat and it might be slightly easier but definitely not a "shit form".
You have no idea what are you talking about basically.
Not reading the rest of your dumb shit nigger, fuck off
>>
>>94177
>6 plates from each side
bro, those are not calibrated steel. theyre bumper plates. its 100kg
>>
>>94177
>called sumo squat and it might be slightly easier but definitely not a "shit form".
the form is shit not because of the with or depth. its shit form because they aren't braced correctly. they aren't keeping the back and core complete upright. their base is a crooked. their necks are hunched over. etc.
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>>94179
back guy seems to have a better form
>>94178
>bumper plates
you have no idea what are you talking about
>>
even the sumo girls lift

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CKY6jWdrnc
>>
>>94181
>you don't know what your talking about
>posts bumpers that prove my point
https://www.xeniosusa.com/it/dischi-competition.html
>Thickness:
>5 Kg: 30 mm
>10 Kg: 40 mm
>15 Kg: 45 mm
>20 Kg: 60 mm
>25 Kg: 60 mm
those are exactly the kind on the bar. so a 25 and a 15 kg a side for 100kg
so competition width bumpers not calibrated steel. also, calibrated steel doesn't have a large metal insert. they aren't as thin as those rings you think are plates too.
have you ever used any of these products before? i use the eleiko bumpers and ivanko, rogue, eleiko, and some Chinese alibaba ones the gym owner got every week. im familiar enough to know that what is on the bar
>>
>>94188
First of all you still have no idea WHAT kind of bumper plates they're using in pic but automatically assumed they're 5k each just to support your claim and I was calling you out on this bullshit.
Second-of-all using one random picture with random rikishi as characteristic for the whole sport is goddamn stupid, don't you think?
All elite-level athletes, especially in combat sports lift heavy as fuck.
>>
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>>94186
>>
>>94190
>of all you still have no idea WHAT kind of bumper plates
https://www.garagegymreviews.com/equipment/uesaka-iwf-competition-metal-plates
most likely uesaka plates.
>in pic but automatically assumed they're 5k each just to support your claim
no, i never said they were 5kg plates. that would be a dumb thing to say since plates are color coded. none of those are the white 5kg plates. white plates are 5kg, green is 10kg, yellow is 15kg, blue is 20kg, and red is 25kg. how can you argue that i don't know what im talking about if you don't even know that pkates are color coded?
there are two plates on the bar, not 6 plates. there is a 25kg bumper plate and 15kg bumper from the uesaka company that have those rings (pic related). a barbell is a standard 20kg for all powerbars or weightlifting bars. the breakout is 25+25+15+15+20=100kg
>random picture with random rikishi as characteristic for the whole sport is goddamn stupid, don't you think?
thats now SNEED. ive used the pic as an example that i have saved. i know certain people train, like ishiura is supposed to bench 200kg, and he looks the part. other guys like terunofuji, hakuho, and even enho who hakuho train have some muscle mass
rikishi like abi, okinoumi, kagayaki, ichiyamamoto, etc don't look like they could bench 200lbs muchess 200kg. the mass isn't there.
my whole original point in my post was that i havent seen heavy training. terunofuji was the only one that ive seen mve kind of heavy weight with a 300kg rack pull and a 200kg flat bench. good for your gym boomer, but hardly anything huge
>>
>>94194
>mass isn't there
you an idiot.
Abi is fucking 1.88 m, are you a manlet retard by any chance? People with normal human height not good at showing mass without gear.
Especially in sumo when being heavy is crucial
>>
>>94195
talking about muscle mass there anon, not straight mass.
>People with normal human height not good at showing mass without gear.
and everyone keeps saying that rikishi are full blast all the time, so which is it?
>sumo when being heavy is crucial
go back to shaws image >>94136 he is 10kg heavier in that image than ichinojo was last basho, and ichi was still the heaviest top division guy. im not discrediting putting on as much size as possible. what i found interesting was that they're not as developed as what id expect someone at that level to be.
>>
>>94143
>makes me wonder if his success was because he used modern methods
Hakuho is and was a proponent of traditional training. There's a vid with him talking about how he focused on shiko to build his legs and keep his knees strong, and how he focused on the traditional training approach.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJYpqYnbrQA
Nigga is so full of himself!
>>
>>94216
There's a difference between saying the right things and doing the right things. It would not do for a foreign wrestler to show up and say that the old methods are crap. It is not a matter of opinion that he incorporated modern strength training methods into this training regimen. There's photographic evidence of it.
>>
>>94216
>>94220
>vid with him talking about how he focused on shiko to build his legs
they have to say things like that. its part of the position
>photographic evidence of it.
i posted links to his Instagram where he does speed bench with chains, a hammer curl drop sets, and a tougher set of bench with what im guessing is 120kg to 130kg plates on a smith machine.
>>
>>94220
>>94221
>There's photographic evidence of it.

I'm not saying Hakuho, or any other rikishi, don't use modern weights, I'm saying that they use them as a supplement to the traditional training exercises they've used for centuries.

Bodyweight exercises, and partner resisted bodyweight exercises, form the foundation for rikishi because it works well, is efficient, and can be done anywhere. Modern techniques and equipment are used to supplement that basic training, but it doesn't replace it.
>>
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>>94227
>Bodyweight exercises, and partner resisted bodyweight exercises, form the foundation for rikishi

Same for Indian Kushti wrestlers, and they're vegetarians to boot. Their simple approach proved so effective that it was adopted by pro-wrestlers back in the day, like Karl Gotch, Ric Flair, Antonio Inoki and many others before the steroid monster look became popular.
>>
>>94227
>I'm saying that they use them as a supplement to the traditional training exercises they've used for centuries.
Yeah, but literally no one is claiming otherwise.

The issue at hand is that sumo is an extremely traditional sport in an extremely conservative country, so any kind of discussion of improved training can potentially be seen as spitting in the eye of history. Thus, regardless of what they're actually doing, when talking about training, a wrestler will talk about emphasizing shiko and practice bouts.

Certainly a foreigner is definitely not going to sound like he's anything other than super-traditional but someone like Mitakeumi can mention how he does some "unconventional" exercises like jumping rope and hill sprints.
>>
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>>94227
this >>94229
And my original speculation was if that "unconventional" training was one of the factors as to why he was dominant for so long. im sure that includes things sports physio, the supplements he used, ped stack, blood work, etc. people like Akiseyama probably still only
>do me walks, eat me chanko, lov me rice, lov me naps
>hate weights, hate rehab,
>hate chiyos, daft cunt broke me jaw
>simple as
>>
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NEW THREAD>>94231
NEW THREAD>>94231
NEW THREAD>>94231
>>
>>94232
Friend, I appreciate the effort, but it's unnecessary. This thread hit the bump limit weeks ago and is still only on page 5. /xs/ is an extremely slow board. We don't need a new thread until we're on page 10.
>>
>>94218
Is there a better channel for news/analysis?
>>
>>94251
just read sumoforum
>>
>>94296
that's not an answer to my question
>>
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>>94197
>dodges the height question
>continues jerking off and discussing small rikishi with bulging muscles
the overcompensating gay manlet nigger has arrived.
Listen here little guy, I'm going to repeat this last time for you - most of the sumo wrestlers are over 1.80m, and showing muscle definition at that normal human height without steroids requires someone to be also lean, which is not a thing in sumo.
You must have noticed, considering how much you love mans ass that all sumo guys are really bottom heavy, in fact they all have muscle striations despite being big and over 30% bodyfat, which means they train legs a lot.
That's all you need to know and lets just leave and the low-selfesteem dwarf shit behind and enjoy the sport, deal? Deal.
>>
>>94301
the idea that you need to watch a video on youtube to get sumo news is fucking stupid, it takes two seconds to pick up the same info on SF days or weeks earlier
new recruits? there's years of threads that get updated every time someone joins up
retirement announcements? there's a thread
rikishi quotes during the basho? there's a thread
offseason training photos, new sumo-themed products, rikishi weight updates, kabu transfer notifications - there's fucking threads for all of it
you don't need an english teacher in japan to read the threads for you in a video
>>
>>94309
I watch sumo-related videos while exercising, I don't want to read.
See how it goes, I'm asking specific question and you're like an idiot suggesting some dumb fucking shit I have no need for.
One day you will learn nobody wants your fucking advice on everything
>>
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>>94311
>I don't want to read.
>>
>>94318
Oh yeah, let me whip out my smartphone to browse the forums and touchtype while I'm sweating on my stationary bike or resting between lifting sets, kys you dumb unwanted suggestions making faggot
>>
>>93774
I've never seen >>93732 at the basho, only the old lady >>93715
>>
>>94322
okay you won the "dumbest fucking comment in the thread" award, congratulations.
>>
>>94323
stop trolling, they aren't the same person
>>
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>>94311
>>94321
https://www.afb.org/blindness-and-low-vision/using-technology/assistive-technology-products/screen-readers
>>
>>94306
>of the sumo wrestlers are over 1.80m,
yeah, and brian shaw is over 2 meters tall and over 200kg.
>that normal human height without steroids requires someone to be also lean
not at all. you can be fat as fuck and still definition. shoulders, traps, triceps, quads, and forearms are all easy places to see muscle mass when someone has high bodyfat
we've also established most wrestlers aren't natty, so why do you keep trying to push that?
>sumo guys are really bottom heavy,
>posts takayasu
takayasu carries all his fat on his upper. mita is another. even abi is fat through the chest instead of anywhere else. his limbs are toothpicks comparatively
>which means they train legs a lot
all the ones i mention >>94194 do not train legs harder than what's done in practice.

>selfesteem dwarf
>gay manlet
now thats some top tier projection
>>
>>94413
>we've also established most wrestlers aren't natty
I love that wild, blind conjecture passes for established fact here
>>
>>94422
>responding to the hobbit poster
you should know better than this
>>
>>94422
>>94433
you would know if you read the sumo forums and not watching some loser teacher
>>
>>94434
>loser teacher
lmao, someone is butthurt with Jason. Gatekeeping sumo is pretty cringe.
>>
>omg I'm so spekhial I read forum
lmao the hobbit is a massive mongoloid retard
>>
I think most of you have lost track of who is saying what. I posted only >>94309 and >>94422. I don't know if Jason is an English teacher, but I was referring to Chris Gould.
No one who posts on sumoforum has ever argued that all or most of the rikishi are on steroids, but they're accepting of the Chiyonofuji claim because of how obvious it is. The man himself claimed he looked like that because he "trained harder" after his first shoulder injury, and also that his training harder cured the injury without surgery. Not the best liar.
>>
>>94477
you can see the needle marks in tochinishins legs. takakeisho's pec separation is very similar to the tears you'll see on bench press. same with terunofuji's knees exploding.
no regulation on PEDs by the sports body makes it hard to say no to something that can improve recovery. there are guys that are using, but to what extent and how many i wouldn't be able to say.
>>
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>>94489
Steroids and PED's aren't uniformly regulated around the world, so it's common for athletes to use what they can to enhance growth and recovery. I think Japan is one of the nations that allows certain PED's to be sold over the counter, so it wouldn't surprise me at all to find they were used by rikishi to assist in recovery.
>>
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>>94494
>uniformly regulated around the world,
I meant the JSA, but I do agree with you. The Olympics with WADA, NCAA testing themselves, etc.
>>
Ichinojo caught the coofs
>>
>watching the 2007 Basho
holy fuck that was truly a golden era
>>
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>>94489
>same with terunofuji's knees exploding
wat
what sport do you think this is


>>94494
>I think Japan is one of the nations that allows certain PED's to be sold over the counter
I looked it up, and the legal status seems to be in an interesting place. Anabolic steroids cannot legally be obtained in Japan without a prescription, however it is (somehow) not illegal to acquire them through personal import.
>>
>>94529
acl/mcl snd i though there was quad tendon too. the knee is another place that you see people get ligament tears. for example within ghe last year.
jf caron tore both knees doing log press
travis rodgers tore both knees squatting
ken cooper tore both knees squatting
Im sure theres more names and this doesn't include sports like football where the stressors are more similar to sumo.
sure, its possible that it was bad luck. Its also possible PEDs played a part, which is what I suspect
>>
>>94534
Bro, rikishi fuck up their knees more than any other part of their bodies. Their job is to slam into each other and not get pushed back by the other guy. Every rikishi you can name has gone kyujo for knee problems at least once in his career. Kotonowaka is 24 and has already done it three times.
>>
>>94544
Kyujo is one thing. Having to drop out for 10 months and get surgery is another.
>>
wow this general is pretty shit
>>
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are we hyped for next basho my negroes?
>>94498
not a big loss
>>
>>93423

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/ondemand/video/5001352/?autoplay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Osp_1irPSwE
>>
>>
>>94555
What do you expect, its fucking sumo
>>
>>94569
>my negroes?
Fuck off with your wanna be trash.
>>
>>94569
>are we hyped for next basho
not really
there could be some drama if Teru fails again, a couple of young guys to verify, a question mark on Meisei, but not much else; I suspect that everyone above M5 will just aim at the 8 wins without taking risks, aka jobbing
>>
>>94683
shit take.
There easily can be a 0 yokozuna in the foreseeable future so a lot of top division rikishi are going to tryhard the next basho.
>>
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>>94684
>There easily can be a 0 yokozuna in the foreseeable future
That can be acceptable to fans, not necessarily acceptable to the NSK. The last (IIRC) time it happened was 1992, during a sumo boom. Do they want to risk a no-yokozuna period during a popularity dive like this, as they are already hemorrhaging money? If Teru gets fucked up, I would expect unusual retirement leniency. Not Kise or Takanohana-level, but still something.
>>
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>>94702
>unusual retirement leniency
And unusual fast yokozuna promotion probably
>>
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>>94666
explain
>>
>>94827
What do you actually expect to find here? there is very little to talk about once a basho ends. Sumo news are hard to come by due to the reserved nature of the sport and sumo history is pretty... "uninteresting" to the say the least. Sumo's past is very unknown asides whatever news articles are left from a past era and the only real value of the past is the cultural influence of it. The only real thing we could be doing during this generals is speculate about the future or circlejerk about the past.
>>
>>94885
I'd rather talk about rikishi of the past and their accomplishments then try to figure out who is on PEDs and who isn't.
Right now I'm watching first basho of 2007 and seems like it was truly the golden era compared to what state is sumo in now.
>>
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>>94885
>sumo history is pretty... "uninteresting" to the say the least
fuck you
>>
>>94710
>And unusual fast yokozuna promotion probably
This is more likely, especially if the rikishi is Japanese.
>>
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>>95004
>Japanese
lol
>>
>>95008
All three ozeki are currently Japanese. Of the current rising young guns, only Hoshoryu is Mongolian. (I've never had any faith in Kiribayama.)

It does seem like the next yokozuna will be Japanese.
>>
>>95011
>Kiribayama
that guy is great, I love watching his bouts, imo he's actually easily a yokozuna material.
>Hoshoryu
100% going to be yokozuna, If not this year then next one for sure. He's in his prime years and prime condition.
>>
>>95011
>next yokozuna will be Japanese.

I hope it's Wakawakatakakakage. Dude seems legit as fuck.
>>
Can yokozuna be promoted from sekiwake or komusubi? Or only from ozeki?
>>
>>95016
he is my guess. mita is too inconsistent and doesn't seem to have the drive, takakeisho too injury pro, and shodai. asanoyama was the best shot prior to his demotion
>>
>>95032
>ozeki
>>
>>95034
>?
>>
>takakeisho vs kotonowaka day 1
Sumo match makers making bangers fights day 1, should be a great basho
>>
>>95032
The nature of achieving the best rank requires winning against the best of the best consistently. So no it's only really ozeki.
>>
>>95033
>mita doesn't seem to have the drive
he JUST got ozeki, after years of people complaining about him not having motivation
>>
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Do you think the rikishi seemingly had more motivation during pre-covid years?
The big screaming hyped crowd made them perform better than now for instance?
>>
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>>95106
Some yes, some no. Aoiyama and another guy (one of the Chiyos, maybe) explicitly said they felt they were performing better in the spectatorless bashos because there wasn't as much stress weighing on them from being in front of people. Enhou, on the other hand, always talks about the crowd pumping him up.
>>
>>95114
My guess is majority really like the crowd, right now it really feels like sumo is on downtrend for a while
>>
>>95095
i know. it didn't feel like he really worked for it. he had a fair number of matches that he gave up the L or won by the other guy fucking up
i know mita's sumo is very conservative and consistent to prevent injuries and all that. wonder if he'll miss his chance when younger fresh guys get to the top, or if he'll get promoted again from consistent performance without injuries
>>
>>95118
>right now it really feels like sumo is on downtrend for a while
people keep saying this, but i don't think its true in regards to viewership. i think the quality of rikishi is in decline because the lifestyle sucks dick till you make it, and thats if you make it
>>
>>95119
>it didn't feel like he really worked for it
>oozeki promotion
>>
Ishiura's out. Still dealing with that neck stinger.
Crazy to consider in Haru he was at a career high rank and by Nagoya he'll be in juuryo.
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>>95196
kotoeko>ishiura
>>
>>95203
no
>>
Tfw kotoeko has been in sumo for 6 full years longer than ishiura despite being over a year younger
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>>95253
Ishiura entered professional sumo at 23 in 2013.
What's your point?
I like them both.
>>
>>95259
so I still have a chance?
>>
no one really seems like a favorite to win the basho. im calling a dark horse win for jasper
>>
it's time guys
we transfer to /sp/, as usual:

>>>/sp/120094055
>>>/sp/120094055
>>>/sp/120094055
>>
>>95271
>>93591
>>
What's your predictions so far?
Mitakeumi and Waka seem to not lose steam, Takauasu maybe too?
This tournament might not a definitive leader just like previous basho, its going to be fun
>>
Nice seeing the stands filled up. Covid capacity restrictions over?
>>
>>95420
not fully, on the next Basho
Face condoms and clapping are likely to stay
>>
File: Screenshot_7.jpg (56 KB, 403x509)
56 KB
56 KB JPG
she's back
>>
So is there any reason waka's physique is so diffrent from the other oupper division guys? He reminds me a lot of a sumo youd see in old art and/or old black and white sumo pictures. Instead of everyone now just kinda looking like a fat fuck. Is he just built different, or it more an intentional thing?
>>
>>95512
hes short and light.
In combat sports it's not about looking better, it's about winning, this is not a bodybuilding competition
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>>95515
>it's about winning, this is not a bodybuilding competition
calm down anon. I was just asking if it might be a weird meta play or somthing.
>>
>>95534
Why do you think I'm not calm?
you have very little understanding how combat sports work and why there are weight divisions in most of them.
>>
Who do you think is the most consistent rikishi right now?
I really can't tell they all seem to lose a bunch





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