They obviously work and are legal so what gives? Are people who get paid for injuring others afraid of injuring others or what?
They CAN work, but they're often trickier to execute in a live situation than locks on the ground, because being on your feet gives your opponent more options for counter-striking or escaping.
>>88224Firstly >>88281 has a point.Secondly, which martial arts school would you go to to learn them? I mean honestly think about a school near you that knows about them and isn't just a watered down sport school.The only places I've consistently seen these techniques taught is (good) Aikido schools. You wont see the average internet badass ever set foot in an Aikido school though...
>>88224/r/ing that Jap guy who breaks the dudes arm with a standing armlock in an mma fight. I forgot the name of the guy.
>>88288>Secondly, which martial arts school would you go to to learn them?All of them?>>88292Shinya Aoki IIRC
>>88292>>88310Shinya Aoki is an obvious contender, didn't Sakuraba too?
Because, due to physics and the way leverage works, it's basically impossible to get into a position where you can sink one without>A: getting heemed/kneed in the face/elbowed to deathor >B: getting taken down, which by definition makes your submission a non-standing submissionor>C: them just pulling away/moving to the sideYou'd have to have them completely pinned to the cage in such a way that you could sink the submission without losing your grip, getting hit, or getting taken down. Even then, you'd have to make sure they didn't just slip to the side.
>>88415Yeah tell that to Jones or Aoki.The problem is you can't train standup submissions with any kind of intensity because you really have to snap them on to work. Even if that isn't a problem in a match, you will quickly run out of training partners if you do it in practice.
>>88224I would say they're very low percentage and hard to practice. I attempted to try and hit a variation of what Jon is doing from full guard and unless you crank it really hard and fast it's not happening. It's a move that requires you to trap the arm in JUST the right way or they just slide right out. So it's a very hard move AND it's hard to practice on top of that.
>>88491Just to clarify, I tried to get this submission for a solid week.
What>>88224
>>88224Ok
As someone who is literally a expert in them I can safely say they are difficult low percentage moves who rarely win fights and usually leave you open to counter attack if you don't do them flawlessly. Also most people in MMA do not train standing submissions at all since time is a limited resource and they are better off focusing on higher percentage moves. Standing submitions could in theory work, but in practice the amount of training they require to use them effectively compared to the low likelihood of being in a situation where they can even be used at all makes them frankly not worth it for a pro-fighter. I learned them because I am a hobiest who had tons of time to spare so figured why not. I didn't really learn them to the point of being a expert in them due to them being the most useful techniques. 9/10 times you are better off punching the dude or using a clench to control the head.
>>89782/Thread
As others said, here is Aoki's standing armlock.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2lLQlM5tFA
And here, Sakuraba's kimura that started standing and finished on the ground.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge34hs-4PKk
Any standing choke I've ever applied has been against someone stupid enough to hand me their neck in the first place. Either through drunken stupidity, or flailing ineptitude. In an environment where both opponents are of any balanced skillsets, you really need something stiffer than the cage to work against. And then, it's functionally just groundwork with different leverage points. With the cage, I believe there have been a few cases of standing guillotines. But mostly in the early days, or in very much local promotions/tournaments where the talent pool might have stark variance.
>>88457Smells like bullshit, no reason you couldn't train them just like any other dangerous sub. People train heel hooks and slicers every day. They are just harder to land since it's hard to lock down a standing opponent
Jon jones can do standing guillotine and whatever that wizard is cause he’s got a big height advantage. Not sure what helio is doing, but it looks like it might be extremely situational.
>>91509damn aoki's voice sounded different back then
Jessica Eye pull out an standing arm triangle choke some years ago on Bellatorhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U537uIY6i8c&list=LL&index=1
Dan Miller vs David Philips
>>88288>AikidoHapkido, old school Jujutsu, german Jiujitsu, JeetKunDo,
Jessica andrade got one recently and made me some money in the process.
>>88224There is no lockdown or position before submission. You either snap into them fast or it doesn't work.>>88288Adding onto this, even Aikido's solution is "thrown him on the ground afterwards"
>>88457>JonesJones did it to Glover against the cage, Glover also didn't tap and just got his elbow fucked upLess than 1% of the submissions are standing and from those 0.9 are standing chokesEverything gets easier on the ground, except striking
>>91510always good seeing gracie's get btfo
>>88288>Secondly, which martial arts school would you go to to learn them?tradish judo school
>>88224Very difficult to pull off, you need good judo/sambo to do it, the current meta is all about LnP though.
