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Are there any kung fu styles that actually works on a street fight or can win against a MMA athlete? I love kung fu but I'm really hesitant about wasting my time by learning it
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>>84380
Is sanda a kung fu? it's the only chinese ma that's not completely fucking retarded bullshit
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>>84380

Kung Fu (功夫)
Kung (功) = skillful work, hard training, or endeavor
Fu (夫) = time spent

Kung Fu (功夫) = time spent in skillful work, hard training or endeavor

Anyone who practices any Martial Art, their skill will be judged by their Kung Fu.

If you refer to martial arts, you need to specify the country of origin as a general classification.
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>>84380
Xingyi (Protip: Train like a boxer)
Sanda
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>>84380
Kung fu at its best is basically ballet, extremely demanding of one's physical abilities and coordination. Asking is kung fu works "for da streetz" is like asking if ballet works "for da streetz". No, but that doesn't mean it's not worth doing.
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Chinese martial arts are a lie. They flat out don't work. Maybe they worked a few hundred years ago but compared to boxing, kickboxing, submission wrestling, Muay Thai, BJJ, MMA, they're just shit man.

And the dudes that do them are always fucking clueless dorks. One guy actually believed knowing kung-fu was "like having a doctorate in fighting".

And that his sifu's, who looks like a skinny-fat middle aged dude, doing shit like carrying buckets of water up stairs "built real strength and lifting weights built fake strength". Fucking retards man.
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>>84447
Shaou Jiau (or however it’s spelled) and sanda are perfectly legitimate.
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>>84450

True. They're the least shit.
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Can Chinese MA even be compared when competition demands things like gloves without becoming simple kickboxing/sanda/shuaijiao? I mean, how could tiger practioners grip 'n split muscles/tendons with gloves? Or snake people use fast point hand stabs? Intercepting/trapping hand styles? Drilling fists? All that shit doesn't work with gloves, and the styles that rely on knees, elbows and massive fist concentration (Xingyi, Baji...) are either seldom seen outside bodyguard circles or are pitted against Muay Thai to have at least some common overlaps to compete.

The times of the famous deadly and debiliating Leitai fights is long over, as now it is better when both fighters survive. That's why nearly no TCMA school will train for competitions outside their own organisations
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How should anyone know if that stuff even works? Not even calculating the supposedly enormous count of McDojos, ripping off students with "old arts" that were never tested in real life, making self defense situations even worse
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>>84479

Chinese martial arts especially and TMAs in general seem to be dying in the West. The McDojo here (I.e. overpriced commercial facility where few people compete) describes itself as an "MMA combat centre". It doesn't even teach grappling despite having a full sized cage..

I go to the local Muay Thai and BJJ clubs instead (that have fighters who compete in their respective disciplines)
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>>84394
Don't be pedantic bro it's obvious he means traditional Chinese martial arts

To answer your question, op. No
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>>84478
Lmao this retard actually thinks he can tear peoples muscles off with tiger kung fuckery
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>>84504

I've trained Shotokan Karate, American Kickboxing, Boxing, BJJ, Muay Thai, Eskrima, Wing Chun, wrestling, and Judo.

And the Kung Fu people are always the worst physically conditioned and most clueless about practical aspects. It's interesting from a philosophy & history p.o.v. so well worth your time if those things interest you, but it won't teach you how to fight.
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>>84504

No, I can't - I replicated what these Tiger gongfu people advertise when they talk about the "superior aspects of their style". I've never seen it, so I won't decide if it is BS or if it works.
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>>84380
Shuai Jiao (wrestling) and sanda/sanshou (kickboxing) are the main ones that work because they compete and pressure-test their material. Yeah it doesn't look like ethnic folk dance, but it's still Chinese martial arts.
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>>84392
It is. Or rather, it's an sport for Kung-fu fighters to fight in.

Shuai Jiao is also under the CMA umbrella and it's pretty much just Judo.

That being said, all Kung-fu styles are functional if properli trained. The problem is finding the places that know how to train properly.
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>>84447
>One guy actually believed knowing kung-fu was "like having a doctorate in fighting".

Who says that? Lmao
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>>84380
Fucking untrained people win against MMA pros.

But anyway, only Kungfu I know of that worked consistently is Tongbeiquan in WW2. Even during the 1700s Europeans claimed that Kung Fu is impressive tricks but useless in a fight. See Pierre Sonnerats books.
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>>85101
I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve seen that happen compared to the hours and hours of content where even hobbyist mma fighters absolutely thrash people on da streetz
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Anything that doesn't have sparring doesn't work
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>>85056
This always seems like a cop out answer from the CMA crowd. The reality is that Sanda isn't just a ruleset that tradionalists compete in, it's a specific sport with specific gyms. You go to sports universities in China to learn Sanda like you go to them to learn Olympic Weightlifting. If you train in Hung Gar for 10 years and prepare for a Sanda competition for a few months you'll get your ass completely kicked 99/100 times. Traditional CMA styles that teach any kind of practical fighting, real traditional stuff like wing chun or baiji quan or whatever don't seem to exist. They all suck.
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>>85141
>The reality is that Sanda isn't just a ruleset that tradionalists compete in, it's a specific sport with specific gyms.

I'll give you "a specific sport". But specific gyms, at least in my experience, no. This may vary from country to country but in my area you pretty much only find Sanda classes in Kung-fu schools. And Sanda competitions are held by the international Kung-fu Wushu governing body.

>If you train in Hung Gar for 10 years and prepare for a Sanda competition for a few months you'll get your ass completely kicked 99/100 times.

In a competent gym, Sanda training will be part of your Kung-fu training. They're not really dissociate from each other - Sanda class is where you learn and hone your skills in the basic kickboxing framework (which IS contained in Kung-fu, in most Kung-fu styles), and Traditional class is where you focus more on the development of your body, your mind, and more self-defense-specific techniques/things that are not part of what you'd consider a standard kickboxing curriculum.

So the idea is not that you train Hung Gar for 10 years then you take 6 months of Sanda and try to compete; you train Hung Gar for 10 years, and your Hung Gar training is comprised of Traditional training days and Sanda-focused training days.

And frankly - again, I can only speak for my school here, but our Sanda classes are entirely based off our Traditional classes. Anyone training just one and not the other is missing out big time. I focus my training on Sanda whenever possible, but I'd be worse at Sanda if I trained JUST Sanda than I am training both in conjunction.
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>>85143

Is 4chan even allowed in mainland China?
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>>85173
Probably not but I fail to understand the relevancy of the question.
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>>85204

I thought >>85143 was talking about experience of Kung Fu schools in mainland China.
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Where the fuck do I find shuai jiao in the east coast
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>>85345
Just do judo like a non-autist
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>>85345

Why would you do Shuai Jiao unless you live in China or are ethnically Chinese?

Judo is a well established international sport. Sambo is even better. Wrestling is GOAT.
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>>85345
Where do you live? I know there's shuai jiao places in New York. There's a few more schools listed here:

https://shuai-chiao.org/

>>85356
Shuai jiao has some neat set-ups/variations of moves that you don't see in other grappling sports.
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>>85363
That's cool, but the talent pool is so ridiculously limited, even within China that you aren't going to progress to pull them off. Sambo has cool setups and variations, but EE guys are pretty forthright about its competitive circuit being the guys that couldn't quite make it at the national/international level in judo - rather than the silver bullet Khabib dickriders like to portray it as.
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I found this place in China id like to possibly go to for training
https://yanchenwuguan.com/
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>>84380
Here's a simple way to gauge if a martial art or gym is bullshit:
>Do they do contact sparring?
If yes, give it a go. If no, it's probably bullshido. I'm sure there are Kung Fu dojos that do contact sparring but they're probably rare. If they don't spar, don't bother unless you don't care about the combat aspect.
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"Kung Fu" has 9999 different styles and nearly 0 of them actually work (as in, are tested in full contact sparring/fights).
As others said, Sanda is absolutely legit (think full contact kickboxing with takedowns) and Shuai Jiao is also decent. Although in the Shuai Jiao case there are clearly superior options, like Judo, Sambo, Wrestling.

Sanda is actually the striking martial art I wanted to train but there is literally no decent places near me. Some places that offer traditional Kung Fu classes have Sanda classes, but these places are not good at all. The only really legit places I have found (legit as in having competitors from their place going to Muay Thai or Kickboxing rules tourneys) focus on Sanda basically exclusively. The place I was going to train with before I moved did Sanda and Shuai Jiao classes.
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>>84380
Ok
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>>84380
this looks legit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-STGb-Z6Ao

BUT the master was a former soldier and had some MMA fights, so he is not a "traditional" kung fu master.

Also, I think he is German.
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>>89996

Most of the "traditional" masters I know have (or have had) another life outside of gongfu. It is a romantic thought that one is born into a venerable gongfu family and inherits master skill from dad who is one's own master.

I know and met caretakers, building engineers, weapon systems engineers, college teachers, medical guys like doctors, physios, osteos, and film choreographers. Most either went the parallel route (started training at youth and simply continued while getting a real job, serving in the military) or the one step at a time one (started early, often something not being CMA like judo, JJ, karate, kickboxing, TKD, then switched into real life with jobs & responsibilities, and when returning back to the martial world found their "true love" style/master).

Both are legit, both worked hard. But foundationless masters aren't masters, and if one didn't really train hard/learned hard, it is just scamming oneself and one's own students.

Expertise is king, will is king, hard work is king. Philosophy without physical ability is empty talk, although many paying people seek exactly such "martial arts wisdom".
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>>90027
I found something about Kung Fu master online, if they have "internal training" AND physical training, they are 70% legit.

Internal training is not a magical skill that will make you invincible (even these legit master tell it) but they will improve your body in ways conventional training ALONE won't get you.

It's a mix of breathing and exercising the muscles, tendons and organs inside your body. Want to try it? just breath from your belly, that's the most basic movement.
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shaui jiao and sanda seem to be the most practical kung fu styles for the street since it combines wrestling with striking which would make it pretty similiar to mma
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>>89996
>attacker performs previously agreed upon movements very slowly
Yeah looks legit...
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>>93222
check more videos about him, he also taught hand to hand combat to soldier and had MMA fights, so it's not your magic Kung Fu master.
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>>87722
Actually that's pretty bad.

Proper trad martial arts:
1. Form & Technique (Need to train the muscle memory)
2. Application & Sparring (Need to practice applying the technique in a fight before sparring.)
3. Conditioning, stretching, endurance etc being trained.
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>>89996
>German
Maybe. But he has a classic trickster phenotype. He is for sure a charismatic charlatan.
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>>93293
well, he has iron palm, check his had. He also has (like I said before) MMA training. His internal training is more or less like most internal training you can get.
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>>85056
all kungfu/bullshido styles would work if they live sparred with a ruleset as close to actual fighting as possible while still being relatively safe; a leg trip that you practice against an actual opponent is going to be more useful to you than a 5 finger death palm that you only practiced in kata. the number 1 most important thing in a fight other than size is how much experience you have getting beat and beating people up. this is why i have a soft spot for Traditional martial arts that dont spar because their techniques are "too dangerous". while today's "masters" in aikido, wing chun, bajiquan, tai chi, okinawan karate, etc. are all pansy asses, the original masters of TMA were probably legitimately strong since they developed their arts by beating the shit out of people. For the rest of us who cant go around and fight gangmembers and criminals, we need to spar to get better
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>>84380
No one style is competitve against MMA, which is about taking the best of different styles.
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>>85091
Some random guy he knows, don't know why the fuck he thought that'd be a relevant story to tell.
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>>84380
No. Don't waste your fucking time. Stick with boxing, muy Thai, western wrestling, bjj, or any other competitive and functional fighting art.
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I like doing chisao, it's fun. I tricked my mom into doing it with me and now we are learning kung fu. We do Tai Chi and lift in the morning and then do some aggresive chisao. I will make her a kung fu master. She has already defended herself from a rouge teenager, she will become good enough to defend herself from me. Our style is oak rat kungfu. Do any of you have some good movie suggestions for learning, we've already studied the ip man movies and karate kid, we need something new
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>>93357
>a ruleset as close to actual fighting as possible
so some form of kickboxing, which is why wushu sparring is done with sanda
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>>93726
The kung fu people competing in Sanda are much better off than those who don't. But you have to keep in mind that the popularity of the sport and level of competition matters too. Outside of China, Sanda isn't as popular or established of a sport as something like kickboxing or Muay Thai. So the level of training and competition is lower in most places.
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>>85110
This is the correct answer
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>>84380
Only the supreme ultimate fist, Tai Chi Chuan.
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does shaolin kung fu such as 18 arhat hands, drunken stuff,etc, have medicinal/spiritual benefits like qi-gong ?
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>>85110
native muay thai fighters:am I a joke to you?
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>>98365
>stuff
-staff-
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>>98366
They still spar even if they stick to light sparring. And of course they fight all the time, so they get plenty of more intense experience. That's a lot different than never sparring at all and never fighting, while having little or no connection in your martial arts community to people who do fight and can teach you. The point here is you that if you're learning how to fight, you need to actually practice something reasonably close to a real fight.
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>>98365
None of them have medicinal/spiritual benefits.
Your benefit from qigong is essentially that it's a stretching routine and light calisthenics routine alongside controlled breathing. This improves tendon strength, makes muscles more flexible, and increases lung capacity over many years.
Doing any martial arts will do the same. You will get the same benefit from doing judo or tai chi or lohan or karate or boxing. This is true to varying degrees depending on the kind of training you're doing.
Either way, if you're looking for medical benefits like those listed above, doing dedicated stretching, cardio, and full body weightlifting routines will get you the same results in much, much less time.
Even old kung fu masters knew this, which is why the first couple years of training would often just be exercises like I just listed.
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>>84380
So apart of Sanda and Shuai jiao
Is there other kung fu style worth learning?
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>>84392
Its not but people like to pretend it is.
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It's sad to see how badly kung fu is received in the west. My Sifu was an ordained priest from Wudang. I hope to go to Wudang for a year or two myself now that my Sifu has passed away. Real traditional chinese martial arts are very effective. But there is so much fluff out there. My Sifu was a diamond in the rough and he was a dangerous mean evil man. He taught good kung fu and he was a good taoist. A real practitioner of praying mantis, wing chun, or chinese longfist is a competent fighter that can have pretty good success against an experienced fighter of a similar skill level from another popular style of fighting. The problem is finding someone that isn't blowing hot air up your ass. I wouldn't suggest dropping your life for years at a time and living on some mountain with taoists, but if you do, you'll probably be able to fight pretty good at the end of it.
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>>98397
i do qigong with my overweight mother, what else should i do to trick her into becoming more powerful. We do chisao, qigong, and partnered shadow boxing. Any other traditional exercises i can use to trick her into exercising?
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>>99943
how can i make learning forms easier?
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>>100238
what exactly are you having trouble with? My biggest problem when I was younger was trying to over think the forms, and remember them consciously in my head like "rolling back fist, sweep with the left leg, low seven star mantis stance" but you need to learn them with your body if that makes sense. Just trying to consciously remember something like that gets very very hard when you have several hundred movement forms later on. It's a kind of a dance. Learn the chorus and the stanzas. Instead of trying to remember individual moves, think of big sections of the form. Take those sections and make them second nature. You should be able to bow, make your first movement, and let all muscle memory take over from there. That's how you find your dao in the form, once you stop remembering the form, you can start doing the form. Another good tip is recording yourself and watching it over and critiquing it. Especially if you're going to tournaments and putting on demonstrations. see what you look like from everyone else's perspective.
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>>98366
lurk 4 more years before posting
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>>98379
>>98366
thais only light sparring is a myth. they turn it up on each other all the time too. just because you see playful videos of saenchai or rodtang or whoever it is having a nice playful session doesn't mean it's always like that. plenty of them beat the fuck out of eachother still
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>>98379
What MT consider light sparing would be considered hard fighting elsewhere
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>>103120

Isn't it the opposite? Muay Thai sparring is light and very technical compared to kickboxing and boxing sparring?..
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>>84380
Xingyi (because it's basically bare knuckle boxing lol)
Pok Khek Kune (simplified Choi Li Fut)
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>>103084
>thais only light sparring is a myth.
If they spar hard you're in a tourist gym.
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>>84380
The chow gar southern praying mantis I did was full of doormen and 'other people' who had to fight, yeah it 'worked' as it just creates mad power and you smash people in the head at short range with a palm or break their arms. Floaty wushu shit, no. It's hard to find a good teacher. pic releated is a good teacher in London but you don't live in London.
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>>103282
lol that's bullshit, you have no idea what you're talking about. don't take it from me
https://youtu.be/zM7GggTipME?t=1281
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>>103291
You know she'd just given her viewers what they want for advertising purposes, right?
Hard sparring is an anglo-american tradition that doesn't really exist anywhere else.
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>>103290
You CAN work with all of those styles if you keep it simple and concentrate on power training. But honestly, why do that if you can have the same in an average kickboxing gym?
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>>103296
>th-they're l-lying...
moron
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>>103298
Cry more fgt. Of course they're lying, they're influencers.
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>>103273
I spent 4 years in MT gym in Thailand Guys would come in from over the world and from all different styles including a lot of blackbelts (lol). Most of them couldn't hang for even a month. Not every single sparring session was a drag out fight to death but yeah we went hard. You work your way up to it and you'd be surprised at what you can dish and what you can take.

I remember one time at about a year and half some huge swede fag doing who knows what style came in looking for a fight and beat up some of our newbies. One of the trainers had me spar him and he fractured his leg when I checked his kick. Fight was over in 30 secs. He was like 6'2 and im only 5'6 btw. You may not believe me but you should check it out for yourself and form your own opinion.
>>103282
>anon talks out his ass
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>>103296
You have never been to Thailand
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>>103290

So my mates who are doormen around London said this is bolloks. The SIA are stupid strict nowadays and they have to show restraint. That heavy weight boxer who knocked out the blue durag man at Boxpark Wembly got his license suspended.
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>>103329

>Things that actually happenend
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>>93613

Because it's an example of how fucking clueless and retarded Chinese Martial Arts fans are. Especially more traditional styles.

Even modern styles that are ok like Sanda are fucking pointless to do unless you are ethnically Chinese so want to do something related to your heritage or you live in China.

If you actually want shit that works just learn K1 Kickboxing or Muay Thai or MMA.
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>>103281
There are some really superficial similarities between some movements in Xingly and bareknuckle boxing but the massive and important differences between xingly and pugilism in nearly every way means they aren't comparable.

Don't know much about Choi Li Fut or Pok Khek Kune so I will not comment on them.
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>>103346
Yes. Cope
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>>103281
>Xingyi (because it's basically bare knuckle boxing lol)
That is funny, but only because of how wrong you are
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>>103273
>boxing isn't technical
Does anyone here actual do any training. Jesus christ
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>>99943

>This is what Kung-Fu practitioners actually believe

You've fallen hard for CCP propaganda. Your Sifu would get killed by an average journeyman western boxer let alone an MMA practioner.
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>>103412

From personal experience, which may be atypical, my boxing class has sparring at about 75% intensity of striking power and Muay Thai class at about 50% intensity. With more focus on technique during sparring in the Muay Thai sparring.

This could entirely be because Muay Thai is a mixed men-women class including sparring and boxing is men-only sparring.
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>>103411
>That is funny, but only because of how wrong you are
I did both, the end result is basically the same. My theory is that some kung fu got beaten by a pugilist in the 18th century, learned from him and sinicised the training.
>originally, no santi shi but horse stance like in all other styles
>originally, piquan was done with a fist (that's why it's called quan not zhang) -> chopper
>beng quan -> straight
>zuan quan -> uppercut, the old school style that is a thrust instead of a swinging motion
>pao quan -> drive hook
>heng quan -> shovel hook
>animal forms came later by all accounts
>emphasis on straight punching is typically pugilism
>conch shell fist trains what the pugilists called power line
>inch stepping is exaggerated boxing footwork
>santi shi is fighting irish stance with open hands
>main mode of training is shadow boxing
>grappling is rudimentary, like in pugilism
>weapon forms are tacked on because it was never a weapons style to begin with
>xingyi's history is "some dude found cave paintings lol", actual history is: It appeared from nowhere a few decades after boxing became big in England and around the time Englishmen entered China
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>>103343
This was a long time ago when there was no strict anything and not in London so no it's not bollocks. Back in the day Paul Whitrod rented himself out at places in London that the ordinary door firms couldn't handle. That's not bollocks either.
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>>84380
isn't the point of learning Kung Fu to get into internal training to make people fly and shit?

If you don't aim for internal training, why are you doing Kung Fu? Just learn MMA and do a lot of sparring.
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>>104122

The internal training is shit too. It's just people who believe CCP propaganda getting runners high and thinking they have magic powers. No your high on natural opioids and you never felt it before as you're a fat dork who never did sports or physical activity.
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>>104154
it's not magical powers, it's just another way to develop force and speed.

It's nice to learn and master because not many people know it but just like BJJ, if it becomes popular, it will be nullified for literally becoming popular.

But like I said, if you don't care about internal training or wushu acrobatics, do not learn Kung fu, do Sanda or something more practical.
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>>104226
Absolutely delusional post
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>>104226

Ok. And how are these ways to develop force and speed unknown to over 100 years of rigorously tested modern sport science that produces Olympic champions in disciplines requiring force & speed?



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