For striking, most likely. Most fights are gonna end up on the ground though, so you'll want something for grappling to supplement.
>>81351>Most fights are gonna end up on the ground though,>people still believe this gracie propaganda
>>81351Depends on the kind of fight. If you’re defending yourself in the street you’re going to get yourself killed going to the ground. MMA is a different matter of course.
>>81351Bad stand-up gets you on the ground, the one who stomps you usually stands upright while doing so. The "street" doesn't award points - you get out and still function, or you don't.
>>81358I've seen a ton of street fights that end in classic mount and ground n pound. Also seen many slams on concrete that didn't even end the fight. Imo the worst part of grappling on the street is getting jumped or on watchers stopping the sub because they think it's more dangerous.
>>81368>Imo the worst part of grappling on the street is getting jumpedWhich is probably the most dangerous aspect of street grappling. Yes, you can bounce your head off the pavement on the way down, but some rando coming out of nowhere to curb stomp or shank you for touching his buddy is too much of a risk for me. If you’re going to learn a martial art for self defense I always advocate for boxing or Muay Thai since they incentivize you to maintain distance, clock the other dude in the face and run away.
Sports BJJ? AbsolutlySpecially if is IBJJF rulesetIBJJF hobbiest > chimp
>>81621Nobody can beat a chimp man, they're too powerful.
>>81349that's not a pipebomb
>>81352it's true though, not all fights, but the majority of peoples instinct is to grapple.
>>82244grapple as in wrestling. Learning to defend takedown and takedown is faster than learning jizz
>>82244No it isn’t you yard most people just swing wild
>>81351>>82370Wrestling is like the pre requisite to fighting. An amature level muay thai cahmpion fights a bjj black belt. Who wins? The better wrestler wins, because he gets to pick where the fight happens.
>>81352it's definitely true if the other dude knows jiu-jitsu or wrestling, that'll be his entire goal
>>82387not if you get heemed immediately
>>81352It is in the countries where wrestling is prominent in the culture. USA is one of them.
>>82522>>82543they don't thoughhttps://rollingaroundbjj.com/fights-end-up-on-ground/
>>81352He's not wrong.That wisdom predates not just the Gracie family name, but the existence of people in that region of land.Fights progress from legs, to punches, to brawling, to grappling, and then to ground, as fighters start out with safe, long ranged heavy strikes, but get fatigued, lose mental focus, and compensate by ensuring greater contact. The closer in, and more physical control you have, the less effort you need to expend.If you're getting tired of the kicking war, you're going to step in to punch. When he gets gassed from punching with you, he's going to try and gain a wrist control or go into a bind to stop you, because he's too fatigued to mount a safe guard and he knows this in his lizard brain.Binds and grapples end up on the ground because gravity and chucking someone is an easy, cheap way to do damage without much brainpower or thinking, and is a martial art technique so old it predates the dinosaurs.And then you end up at groundwork, which is either coiling around the other guy, or a war of who can take mount, either sitting on the person and punching them out from above, or standing up fully and making distance.
>>81351Only in fake fights where the people are not trying to permanently maim and kill you.Real fights don't end up on the ground. How are you going to hold someone down while they stab you with their other hand, or bite through your limbs? You can't. Your fantasies don't hold up to reality. You'll get yourself killed.
>>82621>How are you going to hold someone down while they stab you with their other hand, or bite through your limbs? You can't. Your fantasies don't hold up to reality.>bite through your limbs? You can't. Your fantasies don't hold up to reality.How can you write this with a straight face anon.
Don't be retarded, people. Taking a fight to the ground in a street situation is the last thing you want, since randos can just come up and kick the shit out of your head.End it with a kick or a punch. Most street fighters don't stand a chance against a trained fighter.
Fights in the streets typically go: stand up punching, kicking, stand up grappling, takedown, ground work if ever.So yes Muay Thai is the best art for practical purposes since it covers 3 aspects (punching, kicking, stand up grappling/clinch).But for the cage, control and conditioning dominate all. So freestyle wrestling is the absolute GOAT there and has produced the most champions.
>>81349The most powerful martial arts are psych-fu, finance-fu, and then tech-fus like nuke-fu.
>>82815>has produced the most champions.because the UFC is a primarily American organisation and Americans are the only people that care about wrestling
>>82815That chart makes some questionable choices with what it considers someone's primary fighting style.There's only 1 karate champion listed despite there having been multiple karate based champions, catch wrestlers are listed under BJJ instead of wrestling, etc.
>>82815How is Whittaker the only guy listed for Karate and not Machida lol
No, it's just the new sex. By the end of the 2020s or start of the 2030s, something else will be top tier and you'll be called a retard for having ever thought otherwise.
>>82244>>82505>>82542>>82619Fucking tools. Show me one fucking example of that shit in real life. And I don't mean ground and pound that you can get into and out of quickly... Show me ONE fucking example of submission grappling being used in a street fight. Specifically show me one example of that gracie Bullshit being used in a street fight...The truth is, the only time that submission shit works in real life is when the person using it already had the advantage. I don't think I've seen a single street fight EVER end in submission grappling.
>>81697this.Discussions about 'Best martial art' are retarded
>>83293>Specifically show me one example of that gracie Bullshit being used in a street fighthttps://youtu.be/vuIzkRwB6KcWow that took all of 10 seconds to find.>The truth is, the only time that submission shit works in real life is when the person using it already had the advantageNo shit retard, ever heard of position before submission?
>>83308I love grappling but that dude is right. For self defence, 99% of situations don't go beyond the striking phase of combat.A couple of anecdotal videos of streets fights that do doesn't change that. And for most of the time simply being a big guy, say like a powerlifter or bodybuilder will stop other dudes from initiating violence.For self-defence "in da streetz!". Just being a dude who lifts weights and does boxing will keep you safe 99.9% of the time. But grappling does absolutely beat striking in the cage one on one.
>>83308>wow that took all of 10 seconds to find>unironically posts example of rear naked choke being used in an obvious honor match, with people on both sides maintaining strict 1v1 combat>Then at the end the wigger nicely demonstrates one aspect of why those rules you train under in mma don't apply in the real worldDude, obviously you don't understand that the advantageous position includes the fact that you are in 1v1. How in the fuck is that not proof that I'm right retard? Even as the shit is going down you his both of the fighters boys talking about how they're going to throw down if anyone jumps in. So in other words, if he pulled this shit without the backup...
>>81349these questions are always stupid it depends on the match up and where it ends. If you are a wrestler and get a boxer on the ground its gg standing up boxer should shit on a grappler the same goes for thai kickboxing
>>83458someone hasnt seen many fights i guess? I always wreck mother fuckers on the ground. why not use my size instead of letting them have a chance to knock me out
>>83769>>83768Since one on one combat goes typically in this order: stand up punching to kicking to stand up grappling to takedown to ground game.Wrestlers dominate the cage as they can determine which phase combat stays or moves in. I would argue in IRL fights and for most people 99% of the time outside of the cage "in da streetz!" nak muay will dominate and is the most practical art as it covers 3 phases of one on one combat (punching, kicking, stand up grappling).
>>83775We really need to stop playing "this style versus that style," its stating the obvious. This is why pro fighters train every phase. If you don't, you're leaving weapons on the table. But that's in strict regulated environments, that doesn't negate the fact that regulated MMA techs absolutely are still effective in the streets, BUT do not come with the protections we have in the cage... So in real combat, where most factors are unknown, what other phases of combat could we be discussing. What else is left on the table for us to use? That's the martial arts world I want us all to go to.
>>83857In real combat you fucked up majorly if you are throwing hands or grappling. It means your situational awareness is shit because you should have seen the conflict coming and deescalated like. Or your body language is weak and makes you look like an easy mark.
>>81349Savate usually defeats MT
>>82619The myth comes from a study that's about police. What do police do? Wrestle people to the ground to arrest them - and even then, not all fights go to the ground.IRL, when a fight goes to the ground, it usually means the fight is over: Either someone got knocked out or thrown on concrete.
>>83906Deescalation doesn't work. It's a hippie pipedream.If someone wants your ass and you deescalate, you get sucker punched. If you try to escape, you will get hunted down since you're probably in worse shape than the thug.In a self defense situation, the best solution is sucker punching before you get sucker punched. Teenage weebs may not like it because it's against muh honor and muh bushido (When samurai had an entire art all about surprise attacks - iaijutsu) but it's reality.
>>83915this, people who are in shitty enviroments and situations, now this is the truth. but lots of good points being made, i'll admit
>>83915I have seen this from of de-escalation work in real life. Granted, it makes you the bitch in the social situation. But if your goal is to avoid a fight at all costs...https://youtu.be/f6MLshcgGkQ?t=193
>>83493That’s 90% of street fights you retard. Almost all of them are entirely optional. The ones that aren’t you might as well be drawing knives but that generally doesn’t happen without you inviting it on yourself.
>>81352Say that to my face bitch and see what happens
>>83970De-escalation works when nobody wants to actually fight. When the other guy wants your head, it won't work and will ensure your defeat.
>muh lizard brain>you will end up on the ground, the videos i've seen end up on the groundYou're forgetting that almost no one practices combat sports. If you can finish the fight standing up, which most trained people can easily do, that's 100 times better than taking to the ground and getting your head kicked by some random retard. It's safer to finish standing up.Also, obviously grappling skill is very important, but striking should be primary if it's about the street.
>>81349That's nothing. This one is the most powerful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRosPMyotj4
>>81349Sure why not
>>83458>>>xs/89103i think this thread shows boxing beats striking most of the time in the cage atleast if you look at win ratios and the percentage of boxers that end up champions
>>89532>>83458>>89103boxing beats wrestling**
>>83913no it doesn't. french kickboxers regularly got and still to this day get btfo in thailand. that being said, the french do have a history of impressive nak muay. nikiema, skarbowsky, sacko, recently cyril gane although he's far too big to compete in thailand
>>83293>Show me one fucking example of that shit in real life. And I don't mean ground and pound that you can get into and out of quicklyAhh yes. Show you one example that's not the most obvious and common example that comes up in street fights practically every single time they go on long enough.But seriously? You never get into a fight at school? My boarding house at school had weekly fight nights, and the guy who could do a tiny bit of grappling almost always won in the end because people get fucking tired and you can't punch well from the floor without gravity or legs.>>83458>For self defence, 99% of situations don't go beyond the striking phase of combat.That's because in self defense, the aim is getting away from shit. So if it's for self-defense, people aren't going to risk a ground game if the attacker is downed. They're going to run away or collect themselves and keep the attacker down.So either it's over by striking, the defender wins and runs away when he gets an opening, or the defender gets bought down and the attacker wins because top mount and grappling is even harder for normies then punching, and needs more brains then your average panicked bloke can muster.
>>84027Then you're not using it properly.Fact is, de-escalation works, because 99% of people don't exist at a resting state of wanting to fucking murder someone.If someone's intoxicated, not in control, on drugs, is in a mob or other shit, you're going to struggle getting through to them, but even the angriest of fuckers can be calmed down through de-escalation if you use it right and you aren't too sensitive to look less manly. Humans are coded to prefer no-risk, to risk-of-harm-and-loss, and it pervades social interactions as well.The only reason it's not as widely implemented in america, is a lot of americans have an ingrained oppositional defiance disorder as part of their culture, that they link quite heavily to their pride or measure of self worth. The whole 'stand-your-ground' mentality, or deliberately not doing something because someone in a position of situational authority told you to.Only time de-escalation doesn't work is when the attacker has a genuine, and very important goal to reach by attacking you, be that getting money, not getting caught, protecting a friend, family member, loved one, or other shit.>Source. Went through a shit-load of police and bounty hunter recordings and v-logs to assess if policework would suit me as a career. It's only ever intoxicated people, people helping others, or retards, who can't be de-escalated with some body armour, a gun and an easy conversation. And the retards are either people who genuinely never had a thought go through their brain about the consequences or reality of their situation, or people who insist 'this is my territory, you can't order me to do shit'. And generally they overlap.
>>83769what if they had a friend taht could stomp on you
Judo isn't the most efficient style for mma but I like a lot of its applications in a realistic scenario. Smashing someone into the ground and choosing whether to move into newaza or remain standing. Obviously striking is still the best in a lot of cases, when deescalation doesn't work the best bet is probably just to knock the fucker out. But having lots of hard surfaces around is a plus for judoka.
>>81349Lethwei nigga, art of the 9 limbs or Muay Thai if you don't want to headbutt and is scared of concussions
>>82244Can't even count how many shootboxers or similar I ended up destroying as they went in for the take down
>>89534I do both so fuck you I'm supreme
>>82621spoken like someone who has never had to wrestle over a knife before. Go sit down and stop acting tough when you've never had to fight for your life. fist fights in high school didn't prepare you to deal with the streets. learning to fight at a gym with real sparring is the only way to become a better fighter. dealing with unexpected scenarios and keeping your situational awareness is vastly easier to do when all the basics come naturally and you don't have to think about them.
>>82808honestly a double leg onto pavement ends a shit ton of fights immediately, people with backup are sometimes willing to just grab you to keep you still while their mates jump you, wrestling is common enough in american highschool that the idiot at the bar might have some chops.can't neglect grappling.Sprawl and brawl is gonna be best suited for the street but not every situation requires breaking teeth. sometimes restraining someone is the better approach.
>>83915>When samurai had an entire art all about surprise attacks - iaijutsuThat was for when they got surprised, not for surprising others.If a samurai wanted to cheat he'd just have you shot by several riflemen, or poison your wine, or cut your throat while you were alseep, not do a drawing cut from close range with his own short sword.
>>92148>americans have an ingrained oppositional defiance disorder as part of their culture
Goju ryu, obviously
>>81349tai chi + bombs
>>96823Rifles came late to Japan and Iai is basically an assassination art.
>>96823>If a samurai wanted to cheatSucker punches aren't cheating. It's fighting. Sen sen no sen, attack before the opponent knows what's up.The surest ways to win are surprise attacks and zerging with your buddies. Evolution has not found better way in millennia, all predators do one or the other. A fair fight is the last thing you want.
>>92148>because 99% of people don't exist at a resting state of wanting to fucking murder someone.99% of people don't fight in the street. The ones that do are the ones you'd want to deescalate, but also the ones deescalation doesn't work on.The guy you will most likely face isn't your dojo mate, it's Tyrone Greene who wants his next dose of crack or Ali Al-Kebabi who wants to fuck up infidels.
>>96874They came to Japan in time for the Sengoku period and most of the formal Samurai codes came from the Edo period.I was always taught that iai was for when shit went down in a place where you weren't socially permitted to have already drawn your sword when you got suspicious. Basically the same thing as fast draw drills in modern self defense. If you were just gonna murder a guy you don't fast draw, you shoot him in the back.
>>81349maybe for striking. but if youre comparing striking vs grappling ill give the edge to grappling.
>>81349go back to the youtube video you came from
Whichever is the best at groin kicks. But itd only be powerful against men.
>>81622a chimp man on elk broth is unstoppable