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Found a Karate org that allows punches to the head. It's happening, lads.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ppt8NuY1LV4
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>>7466
I did goju ryu when i was young in eastern europe
punches and kicks to the head were allowed at tournaments but kinda discouraged .. you got the same points for pulling back and it was seen as unsportsmanlike to try and fuck up your opponent
desu best strat was to try and give them a good whack to scare them and then force them out of the ring, they back off too far 3x and you win lol
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I for one support full head gear for karate competitions
Honestly you have to be an idiot to fight with head strikes and no headgear in amateur competitions

I'm not giving myself brain damage without a sizable contract
I wouldnt fight pro for less than 250k guaranteed +performance bonuses and a gate percentage and anyone who fights without headgear for less than that deserves the cte
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>>7743
You sound like big faggot. Helmets are for pussies.
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>>8125
Living with full motor control past 40 is for pussies
Not shitting yourself in your 50s is for pussies
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>>7743
Pretty sure head gear doesn't help with brain damage for the same reason gloves don't. It's the sheer concussive force that sends your brain rattling in your skull that causes damage. Gloves and headgear prevent the cutting that will stop a fight early as well as prevent damage to the attacking hand. Bareknuckle fights usually have way less headshots for this reason.

You can see this principle at work in American Football too. Compared to Rugby those guys get vicious CTE and unintuitively it's because they wear so many pads, allows them to clobber eachother at full speed.
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>>7466
t. guy who never discovered kudo
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>>7743
Mate, you are going to get bigger brain damage with the helmet on than without.

You fell for the false sense of security.
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>>7466
if all you do is kumite and skip kata or vice versa you are a fucking loser
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>>7466
>that video
some of the worst technique I've ever seen, avoid
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>>7466
Doesn't it turn into kickboxing at that point? I don't mind limitations and rules in martial arts, rules and limitations force practitioners to become specialised in certain areas and it keeps the sport unique.
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>>8468
Alright, weebshit. Let us know how useful and important kata is.
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>>8134
Partially correct, but the helmets used for martial arts are significantly different from a football helmet. They are much squishier and absorb far more impact. If you've ever worn a football helmet then you'd know they are stupid rigid and provide no real cushion at all.
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>>8266
Football equipment and martial arts equipment are not designed remotely the same. I guarantee that you will have far fewer concussions wearing a head guard.
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>>9920
Learn to read you fucking retard. Also ever heard of shadow boxing? The same shit pretty much every single competitive fighter does? That's just a free-form style of katas dipshit. In traditional martial arts it's just more rigid with pre-designed combos and stances. Pull your head out of your ass.
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>>11009
Yeah you sound like a weebshit with 0 fight experience. Fuck outta here, chump.
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>>7466
I don't know shit about striking martial arts but based. Glad to here it karatebros.
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>>8475
That's what I was thinking. It's just going to turn into kickboxing. It won't even be Karate at that point. Not hating, just saying. There is already a martial art with that general ruleset with established winning formulas.
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>>11394
Nice rebuttal bitch boy. I'm not saying that full contact sparring isn't good. Neither did
>>8468
Do you not know what vice versa means dumbass? Maybe you've had one too many concussions. Looking forward to shitting in diapers when you hit your mid 50's?
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>>11406
I think it boils down to a difference in training curriculum and decorum mid bout. Mechanically, yes it's going to be very similar but there will be those little behavioral differences. I mean just look at a look at a kickboxing match, then a kumite. It's basically the same damage being done, just like... How do you want your ass whoopins delivered?
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>>11005
Played football up until highschool, can confirm. The helmets football players wear are designed to protect us from getting stingers and smashing our noses into shoulder pads, leagues don't give a shit about concussions at this point. It's almost worse if they do though, my school didn't do live tackling drills because of fears over concussions, we just the equivalent of tackling kata after stretching, and we sucked at taking people down all season. The huge amount of padding on the outside of boxing helmets provides much more cushioning and makes it a lot tougher to knock someone out.
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>>9920
filtered
don't beat yourself up too much, kata is hard
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>>11507
I don't need a rebuttal against a retard who makes a comparison to "shadow-boxing" as some proof of effectiveness when 1.) katas are completely different from shadow boxing and 2.) the vast majority of combat effectiveness of boxing comes from the sparring.

Also, you really can't take this weebshit retard seriously when he touts "pre-defined combos" as some sort of plus like it's a fucking video game.

Kill yourself, weebshit.
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>>11634
>can't explain how good kata is and just dodges the question
looks like he won that argument
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>>12690
You're not worth my time anymore. I said my piece, I'm not about to waste anymore time on a retard who doesn't know fuck all about katas or shadow boxing. Stay salty butt hurt little troll.
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>>7710
>I did goju ryu when i was young in eastern europe
Are you goju fag from old /asp/? I heard rumor you were in prison.
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>>11585
>The huge amount of padding on the outside of boxing helmets provides much more cushioning and makes it a lot tougher to knock someone out.
Not really. In fact there is evidence to suggest including head gear had the opposite of intended affect in amatuer fights. Keep in mind that concussions and subsequently ko's are caused by the movement of the neck. Your brain floats in your skull and if you move your head quick your brain bounces off the side. Padding doesnt really prevent this effect. All it does is prevent cuts and to some degree orbital breaks. Now, as far as making things worse is concerned you have to keep in mind that most headgear blocks vision to some degree and also gave some fighters flase confidence. Because of this the number of landed shots started increasing after the introduction of headgear simply because fighters literally couldnt see them coming.
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>>12877
>evidence to suggest
>cites nothing

I've been punched in the head both with and without a helmet. The shock from one was a helluva lot worse than the other, care to guess which one? You're assertion that boxing helmets reduce visibility that much is just plain wrong. At least in my experience anyways. What's more likely is they're not experienced enough to keep their damn eyes open.
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>>12898
>It has lately been noted that the use of headgear might in fact be less safe than not using it due to an increased rate of brain damage, particularly outside professional boxing. Due to this, headguards were not used in the 2016 Summer Olympics. There are three theories for why use of headgear might lead to more brain damage: the headguard makes it more difficult to see, it makes ones head a bigger target and it might create a false sense of security, leading the boxer to take more risks than they otherwise might. As such, use of 16oz gloves has become more recommended to increase the safety of boxing, as they are heavy enough to prevent the boxer from throwing punches at full speed and power.[1][2]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headgear_(martial_arts)
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>>12865
Go back to your McDojo, Katard.
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>>12907
Thanks for going that extra mile... Well I still know what I prefer but I concede there must be something to it. I'm thinking it's more the risky business. Idk, I've never felt like a helmet impeded my vision and my coaches were always sure to watch our habits to make certain the protective gear wasn't making us cocky. To each their own.
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>>12877
>>12907
Wow, thanks anon, I was misinformed.
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>>8134

once I saw some video with karatekas using a kind of foam bevor. Literally a padded barrier coming up from the torso padding covering the neck and lower face.

Would that absorb shots better by connecting to the torso instead of the head? at least it gives a foamy target right on the chin
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>>7466
This is barely karate, more like a brawl, avoid it at all costs unless punching someone is all you want to do with little regards to technique.

this guy knows whats up: >>8471
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>>11406
K-1 kickboxing was originally a bunch of karateka looking for a way test their skills and practice more realistically
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ITT
>triggered
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>>7466
god their punching technique is fucking awful. an amateur boxer with 1 year of experience would fucking destroy all of them
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>>7743
>I for one support full head gear for karate competitions
The only problem is that it makes it harder to hear the referee. Especially if you the venue is noisy and you are in the zone.
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Anybody else transition from karate to Muay Thai? I did shorin-ryu for 15 years and then relocated to an area where MT was the only choice if I wanted to still focus on standup. It's actually comfortable so far once you learn how to open your hips, not like this galaxy of difference internet nerds make it out to be. I kind of miss the whole three Ks thing about karate, though. Also dan progression, but that's probably just autism.
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>>7710
Strikes to the head, at least full-contact ones, are discouraged because brain damage is no joke.
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>headgear
what about something like this foam muffler in front of the chin?
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>>18346
Is this Kudo?
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>>18346
I've always been skeptical about the actual utility of this stuff.
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>>7710
>Goju Ryu.
Ayy, currently doing it (read, getting back into it).
Never did it in a combat sport sense, but the dudes I study under are pretty based.
>>7743
Pretty fair. I'm more scared of untrained maniacs then more trained foes. There's a point where the dude knows how to hit, but not how to hold back or be safe.
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>>9920
Kata's great, if you know why it's great and what it's for.
If you don't know what it's for, it won't help you much.
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>>9920

You'll always heard the counter that "kata is useless if you don't do it properly". The funny thing is that 99.9% of karate styles don't do kata properly, ie as the original creators of karate intended.
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>>20432
The padding, or the karateing? Because the face padding at least has some basis in historical armor.

The karateing seems to have gotten too spread for proper quality control beyond being your local fight club.
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>>14784
So what do serious Karateka do these days?

Karate unfortunately seems really run-down nowadays. Is there no one looking to reinvigorate it and bring it back to prime?
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>>20527
One problem is that kabudo is almost dead nowadays outside of hobbyists in Okinawa, and even young Okinawans kind of roll their eyes at them like it's their version of HEMA nerds. The issue with that is that in centuries past karate and kobudo were sibling curricula meant to be taught together, and without that context the sense in the kata abstractions might not make sense.

For example, you'll see a lot of well-meaning sensei try to say a move where one arm forms a horizontal bar with an open palm over the head and the opposite arm lies parallel to the forward leg below is supposed to be interception of head punch with a groin slap. In reality, that movement was supposed to represent taking initiative and catching (bo) staff. The suspect applications of a lot of kata moves can be like this: They seem impractical and forced because they were practiced with something historic and peculiar in mind like that.
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>>20531
The padding. Does that actually avert the dreaded CTE or is that just give a false sense of security?
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>>21366
It may work better if it is rigid and connected to the body, rather than being all supported on your neck.

A similar behavior to the formula 1 halo, which saves crashing pilots from decapitation by transferring forward shock onto the back frame of the vehicle.
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>>21363
Well I guess I got lucky with my dojo since we do include bo attacks in the bunkai for some of the kata.
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>>21363
this is just why goju is so superior because there's no ambiguous "bunkai" with the kata
kata is movement exercises, that's all, didnt' even exist in miyagis original curriculum and only came about because he was asked to do a demonstration so he put some moves together for it. There's like 3 legitimate kata in goju, anything else is bullshit
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>>20658
karate combat bro its a bunch of wkf point guys fighting each other. It is kind of low quality but they are new to real fighting. If it develops then we can get more Lyotos and Kyojis lol.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrx0XRJeIhstGD8H60kLYYA
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>>23974
i wouldnt call it low quality

the camera work is imo much better then most mma promotions
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>>24749
I mean the fighters more than the production values. A lot of them go for just throwing haymakers once it gets tough. Its like Forrest Griffin vs Stephan Bonnar level striking on average, which considering they don't grapple isn't great.
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>>24781
Yeah it always suprises me how many haymakers are thrown from Black belt Karatekas that should very well be able to throw clean punches
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>>24787
doesn't surprise me at all, they're all from point fighting backgrounds and Karate Combat basically picks them up raw. Only a few guys like Skrivers and Quayhagen have clean punching form in the pocket and both of those guys have MMA experience
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>>24805
How doesnt this suprise you?
Point fighting NEVER uses hooks.
To me who studied karate for somewhat like 6 years and cross trains in KB, it wasnt hard at all to transition to clean punches and not the bullcrap haymakers and overhands they are pulling.
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>>24810
It happens because haymakers is how an untrained person trhows punches, these guys are not used to getting punched for real so they go back to basic instincts after a while. You say you cross train kickboxing but that's different than just being put into a full contact fight if all you've done is point sparring. My hope with karate combat though is that the skill level develops without it just becoming another no leg kicks kickboxing thing. Like if they can retain some of the point fighting style, but just actually hit eachother. Maybe this would be more likely to happen if this was made during the height of the JKA rather than WKF though. Like the kind of point sparring Machida did is different than the olympic kind in a weird way.
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>>24810
Point fighting doesn't fight up close either, they only go to the first punch. These guys break down after the initial blitz or entry because they have so much less experience there and can only brawl.
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>>8134
>Rugby
Rugby has completely different tackling rules to "football". In rugby you basically tackle players by hugging them until they fall over.
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>>24817
No i do full contact sparring too
I never had any problem translating punches from a Karate setting into a Full contact setting (not talking about Oizuki and co ofc)
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>>24823
Hm this seems like the most logical explanation to me and makes sense in context. The only Karate style that is common for this kinda range are full contact styles anyway
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Anyone got any recommendations for Karate reading for 2nd-4th dan for Uechi Ryu and Goju Ryu?
I've got Funakoshi's Guiding Principles and Essence of Karate, Bubishi, Dynamic Movement by J.D Swanson and Giles Hopkin's Kata and Bunkai.
Dr Swanson's book ended up being incredibly useful and haven't found anything else as practical yet.
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>>7466
What a stupid sport. You must seriously consider to not live further than 65 if you practice this shit.
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>>25571
T. Never did a Martial art
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>>25571
CTE is real, but some people are blowing it way out of proportion. Boxers have it the worse, because of the count where they let someone already kod continue, most striking arts itsnot even that big of a deal. Most hobbyists do not even get seriously hit that often. Like lets say you did 4 kyokushin tournaments in your entire life and got kod twice, its extremely unlikely you will have serious brain damage.
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Why do kyokushin instead of kickboxing or MT

I don't see the advantage, particularly if it doesn't include building muscle memory for head defence
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>>25571
Who the hell wants to be 70 anyways
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>>25827
A single concussion can cause serious brain damage. Yes damage from cte is accumulative but still, studies have shown even a single nasty one can have long term repercussions. For entertainment purposes, like if you're a pro fighter, maybe it's worth it. If you're training martial arts for any other reason though I don't see the vast benefits from being punched in the head.
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>>20475
Either practice Shotokan or fucking Okinawan Kenpo Karate.

Disgusting.
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>>25931
Kyokushin etc typez include a lot of conditioning drills.
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>>25931
Because Kyokushin is often fought at chest-to-chest range, they can develop extraordinary kicking power from very close range. They also utilize certain kicks and strategies that you don't see very much in kickboxing and Muay Thai. While it wouldn't be my first choice, it's worthwhile to study.

>particularly if it doesn't include building muscle memory for head defence
Head kicks and knees are legal in Kyokushin. While they lack boxing head movement, it's not like they don't know how to defend their head at all.
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>>26178
>>25931
kyokushin fag here who used to box, whenever I drop my hands I get kicked in the head, but yeah the head defense isn't as advanced as boxing
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Just found out martial arts threads came here any karate generals?
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>>26191
This is basically the karate general, though it should be noted the martial arts general has been dominated by karate arguments lately
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>>26219
>This is basically the karate general
good to know
>martial arts general has been dominated by karate arguments lately
pathetic
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>>26226
>asking for karate generals
>dislikes there are karate arguments

Your logic is too advanced for me friend
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>>26232
One day my friend
real talk you can have generals without arguing, just exchanging information and ideas but its rare
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>>26234
True dat

While im at it
Opinion on Taido
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>>26236
I don't really know much about it but looking into it I like the philosophy of constantly evolving the art
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>>26236
Not him but Taido basically just seems like a cross between point karate stuff and TKD (more acrobatics). If you're into that it's probably fine but it definitely isn't the "meets the needs of a changing world" stuff it markets itself as.
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>>26234
it isn't karate arguing with karate, it's mmafags trying their hardest to pile on top of karate and being unable to beat one person in an argument
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>>26257
did they migrate from /fit/? Most of them generally train less than a year but consider themselves experts
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>>25931
>>26158
What is crazy to me is that people advocate training in full contact styles like muay thai then they turn around and say we are only going to spar light contact, because I am afraid of cte. Its like for the person who does not compete and fight for real that light contact sparring is not going to do much more to prepare you for an actual fight than point karate. You need some harder contact sparring every once in a while and no you are not going to get brain damage from it lol.
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>>26257
No, it's one fucking Goju-Ryu autist bashing MMA *and* every other style of karate; either Shotokan's too airy fairy (which is hilarious because Goju has the same competition ruleset) or Kyokushin is just a mediocre Goju ripoff (and has produced legions of top combat sports athletes through pure luck, apparently)
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>>26278
goju doesn't have a competition rule set because it isn't a sport. it's a fighting art meant for self defense
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>>26287
guess what, if you don't have a competition ruleset you're worse at self defence than any martial art that actually does because your people never learn actual application of what they're trying to train. It also allows guys to test out their stuff and have something to aim for instead of incentivising them to try to get into fights at the local pub (and it works a hell of a lot better than just blathering on about self restraint)

And all that I just said was pointless because Goju absolutely has a competition ruleset, they compete in point karate. They're one of four styles recognised by the WKF which is one of the big point karate orgs.
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Figured out that I been teaching kata wrong for a few months now, which sucks.

How I have been teaching it was standing in front of the class and doing it with the students at the same time I am doing it myself.

Turns out any time I wasn't directly looking at them they all got in the habit of going zero effort sloppy bullshit. like instead of punching and blocking just lightly wave the arm in the corisponding direction. Instead of being in the stance they were standing straight up just gnenrally facing the right direction.
It was fucking shit.
Worse thing is I trusted the senor instructers to be checking over form the whole time while I lead but come to find out that trust was misplaced since they only care about them remembering the sequence of movements and don't give a damn about the quality, enthusiasm or effectiveness of the techniques.
Today was the first time in a long time I actually just stood back and watched everyone in detail.
These are brown belts and green belts we are talking about here. They know the movements. They just don't give a shit and preferred to be lazy.

I don't even like forms/kata. It's my least favorite part of karate. But to see them in that state when it is my responsibility to teach them filled me with a combination of dread, disgust, and anger.
What the fuck is even the point of doing kata if the head instructors don't give a shit about anyone doing it right.
Why did I waste my time learning them if they don't matter to anyone.

I am still just starting out teaching classes. Only been doing this for months but this realization and the implications has me thinking that I am totally on my own if I want to be a good teacher, to the point of totally ditching the way they teach everything and doing my own thing starting from scratch.
Which is probably not going to be welcomed since they both have been doing it this way since the 60s-70s.
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>>26307
WKF can go fuck themselves just like ijf
Its bc of them some schools started to teach improper technique in Europe and go for sloppy versions of oi zuki and co that are literally unusable for anything besides wkf point sparring
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>>26307
>WKF
does not govern goju, its a sport karate organization that people who do goju may choose to participate in but it has no say over what goju is and isn't. and literally anyone can compete in WKF matches even if you don't do karate, it's open to all. The only thing they restrict style on is for kata demonstrations and that's a matter of being pragmatic so the judges know what they're looking at

the only rule set goju follows is what ever rule set the goju practitioner agreed to before the match starts
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>>8158
I am settling with kudo. Unfortunately I'm an american and don't have orgs around who practice it.
Settled with russian videos to at least learn the techniques
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>>26525
God please no
Train at a dojo, dont learn technique from videos, that shit never works

If you cant train kudo in your area or you really need to practice a karate style, train kyokushin

If that is also not aviable in your area go for Kickboxing(preferably dutch style or hard, no point crap for kb) or MT
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>>26529
Should've clarified. I meant body movement repetition workouts. Of course, none of it is applicable until you spar. Kudo is still the alpha of martial arts, so I'm willing to go overseas to train it in its full capacity.
Not settling for anything else
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>>26532
Sounds autistic
But you do you friend
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>>26485
Make them do it right, kata is good for focus but if you wanna teach it right you need to know the bunkai. I used to hate kata but its pretty good if you are doing it properly
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>>26273
Science says you're potentially wrong.
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>>26580
>but if you wanna teach it right you need to know the bunkai
Well then I will have to research it myself since the head instructors simply don't know. One doesn't even know what bunkai is when asked and the other kind of doesn't care and makes up whatever explanation on the spot. Both have been doing this for decades and running schools for years.
And no I don't really have the option of training somewhere better. Not unless I learn to teach and make it better myself.
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>>26658
>head instructors simply don't know. One doesn't even know what bunkai is when asked
what type of karate is it? Did they at least say they'd check something to find out or just straight up idk?
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>>26520
>the only rule set goju follows is what ever rule set the goju practitioner agreed to before the match starts

That's the same for everyone dumbass, if they didn't agree to the rules the match wouldn't happen. A Goju guy can get in a boxing match if he wants to and agrees on the rules, but it doesn't mean that that's what he trains at or would be good at.

What competition rules your style trains in and prepares for indicates what sort of fighter it's going to start churning out, and if it doesn't have any (because muh streetz) all it's going to produce is people who are really good at talking and acting tough and thinking they're way better at fighting than they actually are
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>>26684
>what type of karate is it?
Tang Soo Do.

>Did they at least say they'd check something to find out or just straight up idk?
Straight up idk. Which I guess was honest though disappointing.
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>>26740
Kek, I also do Tang Soo Do. How the fuck do they not know. Whereabouts are you?
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>>26787
If you are having problems with specific parts I might add I might be able to tell you the Shulki, I happen to teach as well and if I don't know it my teacher would know. Hell he usually has 2 or 3 answers since the original application has been lost or changed so much since it's inception. I think depending on the pattern Okinawan application might be worth checking out, I know we got them mostly from Shotokan so can look there too.

I also do Kyokushin and a lot of the kata/hyungs really are the same shit but with minor differences it's all from the same source so hunt around if you need. People need to be taught correctly if your seniors won't do it you need to
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>>26740
>>26787
Most instructors of karate do not even know the bunkai of kata and treat it entirely like a dance. It is insane, because you will even see people who are basically doing legit kickboxing sparring also practice kata which are completely unrelated to anything else that they do and they do not know what any of it is for.
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>>26787
>>27197
I brought up the subject again, saying that I would take the initiative to look up the application of the forms and the head instructor was totally confused on what I was even talking about.
Literally the only reason he teaches kata is because its something you learn for belt test and it's the way he was taught decades ago.
The crazy thing is unlike me he really likes forms despite having no clue what they are for or why people should do them.
Like I said, frustrating.

>Whereabouts are you?
USA, Florida

>>26791
The Kee Cho Hyungs (which are just called the basic movements 1,2,and 3 in our classes) are all pretty straight forward.
Manly working through the Pyung Ahn Hyungs as so far I am pretty iffy on the aplication of them.
Other then that there are forms that as far as I can tell were totally made up by the small organization my teacher used to be apart of years ago so I can't find much info on (we call them Dapoon but unsure on spelling and our school in particular only does 2 of them)
and two "advanced forms" being Bassai and Chin Do. Which I don't even have Chin Do memorized because it's so rare that I do it.
Apparently I will eventually be required to learn a 3rd "advanced form" the next time I test for a higher rank but even the head instructors are scratching their heads on what it would since it's rare to do anything beyond Bassai for them and they straight up can't remember a 3rd advanced form anymore. Granted, both are really old but still. Ain't worried about learning new forms though since I don't even like them and currently focused on how to teach them and what are the application of them.
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>>27222
>Pyung Ahn Hyungs
Looking through a video of them now (they seem to be very similar to the Taikyoku series from karate), which movements are you thinking about the application of?
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>>27222
>I brought up the subject again, saying that I would take the initiative to look up the application of the forms and the head instructor was totally confused on what I was even talking about.
>Literally the only reason he teaches kata is because its something you learn for belt test and it's the way he was taught decades ago.

So they don't do Nahanchi after Bassai? Only one Bassai? What parts of the pyung ahns are you confused about?
>>
>>27236
>>27245
I am just trying to find a source of info on what the non obvious movements are for/do.
Like what the begining part of Pyung Ahn Sam Dan even is and what is it for. Or what the chicken wing parts after the crescent kicks are supposed to do. Like are they blocks or something?
Stuff like that.
>>
Is Karate the most likely turn your kid into a bully out of all martial arts you could pick for him?
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>>27276
Has yet to be a problem with any of the kids that have come through the place I train at.
So I doubt it.
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>>27276
lol no I'd be curious if any martial arts did though
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>>27260
iirc the chicken wings might be some form of grabbing not sure, I will check next class in a few days. For Sam Dan do you mean the open handed blocks similar to E Dan or am I getting mixed up either way top is a block bottom can be strike or block
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>>27276
In Japan it seems there is a certain link between juvenile hooliganism an the full contact karate styles, but maybe I just watch too much anime
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>>27365
Isn't japan the place where martial arts schools used to be sink or swim - if you get hurt it aint our problem?
Maybe its a mentality
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>>27365
>In Japan it seems there is a certain link between juvenile hooliganism
[citation needed]
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>>27385
what do you mean?
he gave a citation
>too much anime

you need to get better at listening, baka
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>>27365
Holy Land is not a source dude
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>>7466
that stance is wack, weak punches
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>>12690
just interjecting, no offense, but drilling and conditioning is probs 80 % of what you need to succeed in boxing/mma, sparring is super important and super necessary, but if you spar all the time and don't drill and condition, all your gonna get is CTE
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>>12690
t. never boxed
shadowboxing is super fucking important
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>>26273
I politely disagree. Sparring is necessary to develop competent fighting skills, but there isn't much of a point in training primarily for self-defense if the practice itself is going to be more of a hazard to your health than the likelihood of your being in a fight. Kind of defeats the purpose. Self-defense oriented training shouldn't involve frequent hard sparring to the point of KOs.

Additionally, tired of an argument to retread as it is, self-defense and combat sports are just completely different in what's actually required to work. My shorin-ryu karate might not earn me any golden belts in MMA, but I've floored three motherfuckers who've tried to jump me to date. I also have a friend who did ATA Taekwondo, pretty much the memeiest and least well-regarded of all TKD styles, who kicked the shit out of a jogger who pulled a knife on him at the 7-Eleven. Your typical random street hood is not going to come at you with the skill and proficiency of a cage fighter rumors of inborn street fighters notwithstanding.
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>>26688
Please do not feed the Goju autist.
>>26740
>Tang Soo Do
Big OOF, but sadly unsurprising. A lot of Koreanized karate is just changed for the sake of hiding its Japanese roots and suffers in various and sundry ways like you describe.
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>>27697
Well if you train a style like shorin ryu there is no surprise that it doesn't involve hard sparring. My post is that it is odd that people criticize people for doing soft contact styles when unless you compete and fight in the ring muay thai is also a soft contact style. I am not saying people should be going ham everyday, but I think there is value for even a hobbist to spar hard every once in a while. Keep in mind hard sparring is still not a fight I am not saying to throw things like knees or wheel kicks to the face full power.
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>>27700
>Big OOF, but sadly unsurprising. A lot of Koreanized karate is just changed for the sake of hiding its Japanese roots and suffers in various and sundry ways like you describe.
I do Tang Soo Do and we don't have that problem, I'm in Australia though. The TSD guys I meet from overseas are generally pretty different. There is some of the retarded not acknowledging japanese shit though in our history, fucking Koreans
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what kind of karate is taekkyon?
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>>27731
its as much "karate" as any martial art, ie empty hand. They have called out TKD for saying they use alot of taekkyon
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>>27731
It's nothing to do with karate, unlike TKD and TSD.
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>>27552
Holyland doesn't really depict a link that way because everyone in Holyland is a delinquent.

That being said, there aren't any major links between full contact Karate and crime nowadays as far as I know
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>>27704
>Well if you train a style like shorin-ryu it is no surprise you don't spar hard

What delineates soft and hard sparring to you? If it means we can hit each other full contact, yes. If it means that you act like it's one-step down from a tournament match and you can knockout, then no.
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>>27731
Neither karate nor any kind of martial art. It's a mild combat sport historically played at festivals with techniques specifically designed not to cause harm.

It's recently in the past decade been mythologized and hyped by Koreans as their True and Honest ancient and deadly martial art because the post-Web 1.0 internet community soundly debunked the fake history they created for Taekwondo.
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>>27802
Not crime, but the whole karate vibe(especially kyokushin) feels like a breeding ground for playground bullies. The whole toughness thing
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>>27933
I've run into more asshole black belts at kyokushin than anywhere else but they were grown men
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>>27970
Oh fuck I know the type. They're the 40 year olds who actually say things like "I just killed you 2 times"
We had one of those in our Sanda class
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>>27971
Nah nothing like that, just dicks in general really who think you should lick their boots because they are a black belt and constantly get angry about super small shit
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>>14853
Yep. OP should stop being a pussy and join a boxing gym
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>>27867
Soft sparring: full speed, but not full force (aka pulling your blows)
Hard sparring: full speed, full force

How the fuck do you hit each other full contact but don't knock each other out?
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>>14853
You'd be surprised at how hard it is to step in with the jab when the other guy keeps kicking your leg
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>>28000
The separation of hard sparring and a real fight is hard sparring you do not use certain techniques with a high probability of serious damage knee strikes to face headkicks etc. But leg kicks body blows are full power punches to face most of the way there. You also stop if your partner is hurt in a fight you would finish them off
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>>28000
Don't go to the head. You can beat up the other guy w/ full force and not KO him if you don't go to the head, and since most full contact styles don't do head punches anyway it basically just means don't kick to the head.
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>>27869
>with techniques specifically designed not to cause harm.
so, like judo
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>>25931
So you can get good at ax kicks and wear a karate uniform on your kickboxing walkouts

https://youtu.be/djs4ympyPnk
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>>28059
half of judo is learning to fall so you don't hurt yourself when the other guy throws you, those are not techniques specifically designed not to cause harm
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>>28063
Its literally just several schools of jujitsu smashed together with all the dangerous stuff taken out, so they can practice hard sparring.
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>>28071
The eyepokes and shit aren't in there anymore but you can't say the remaining techniques aren't designed to do harm
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>>14853
>martial art that focuses exclusively on punching has the best punching technique
woah
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>>28099
Next he tells you that BJJ is the king of ground grappling
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>>14853
If they knew he was a boxer beforehand they would just keep distance and kick him
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>>28093
he is right in the sense that a lot of techniques that couldnt be trained full force without injury were removed from the curriculum intentionally. I Posted this in one of the other judo threads but the OG jujutsu seoi nage was actually an arm breaking technique.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axmkQIhL0Ho
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>>28093
>The eyepokes and shit
lol oh fuck. argument won. woo lad. We got someone running both graphics cards here
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>>7466
Shin karate.
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>>8475
No, kickboxing is a ruleset to begin with,
karate by definition is kickboxing since you strike with your hands and kick, muay thai is kickboxing.
Dutch kickboxing wich is an actual style that separates itself from other kickboxing styles beyond the rules, while it has it's roots in karate is very different, people always say that karate lacks punches to the head, but it also lacks head movement AND footwork.
Actual dutch kickboxing has footwork.
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>>8128
If you like until 50 then you didn't live as a man.
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>>28491
>Actual dutch kickboxing has footwork.
how is it different from karate? the foot work is different, not nonexistent
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>>28000
I guess medium contact, then?

We were allowed to make touch contact to the head (to force students to keep their damned guards up), but we could make full force contact anywhere else except the groin.

Shorin-ryu isn't a very tightly centralized tradition, though, so I'll grant that what's permissible in sparring probably varies widely between the honbu. Most of my godan and higher instructors had American kickboxing experience.
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>>28059
No, that's being too charitable. In judo, a lot of that stuff absolutely does cause harm to an assailant who doesn't know how to blend with the technique and isn't going to be landing on a gym mat. In Taekkyon, the blows are trained to maximize pushing force and minimize trauma so that it amounts to shoving each other out of a ring. I guess it could be useful in a fight in the sense that if you kick a person's thigh and they stumble back and onto one knee you can turn and run for safety, but you could also argue then that fagdive skills help you kick a dude in the balls extra well.

Also, more to the point, judo is a "gendai budo" that synthesized the techniques in a bunch of jujutsu traditions and removed the "2 deadly 4 u" stuff in favor of refining what would be legally defensible in a post-Meiji time. Taekkyon was never, by any genuine historical evidence, trained as a form of self-defense. It was always a game that stripped down striking techniques cribbed from Chinese kung fu into something relatively safe for villagers to use to push each other inside a circle. Jingoistic Korean propaganda, however, is trying to retcon it into the kimchi flavored version of the Eight Trigram Exploding Palm Technique.
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>>28545
So its a pretty fresh base to evolve from.
Sounds pretty awesome
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>>28491
Traditional Karate absolutely does not lack footwork, that's like the one thing that point fighting produces reliably. And Dutch kickboxing footwork is pretty much identical to Kyokushin footwork in that it's very methodical and steady because you need to check kicks, and because Dutch kickboxing is basically just Kyokushin karate + boxing

Don't believe anyone who tries to tell you the biggest influence was muay thai, they probably still think Ramon Dekkers was a big deal
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>>28538
Alot of f ostensiblysft karate styles like shotokan and goju ryu or whatever will basically be long pants kickboxing in sparring, because American kickboxing without leg kicks developed from those styles so the instructors often have experience with it. Whether they focus more on that or n point sparring depends on if they are competition oriented and then of course you will also have many traditionalists schools which hardly spar at all. So it is sound like you got a good one, although if I had to guess is there almost no connection between what you do in kata and sparring,but you just do katas anyway? A curiosity of mine, because that's exactly how my old karate school was.
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>>28491
Karate has footwork what are you talking about that's where all the technique comes from
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>>28538
our karate (tang soo do) is essentially medium contact but the over 18s is pretty much full contact sparring outside of punches to the face while allowed not trying to break each other
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>>28545
where are you getting your taekyon knowledge from? I'm not disagreeing I'd just like to know so I could have a look too
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Is there some kind of exercise I can do to strengthen my elbows? After the initial lockdown I stopped practicing for a while and after picking Karate back up I noticed that my elbows tend to hurt if I throw backfists or straight punches with full speed / strength. I assume I need to build up some muscle around it or something. I don't know.
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>>28628
You may be locking your elbows out when you extend your punches. A lot of karate has much air punching I suppose, so try not to do this. It is even worse for your knees if you do this with kicks. I used to lock out sidekicks all the time for the cool looks of it and had a meniscus tear as a result.
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>>28628
You're probably hyperextending your elbows, as the other anon said. Don't overextend and flick back quick.
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there's lots of kung fu movies, are there any karate movies? besides the karate kid movies
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>>28699
Kuro-obi, high kick girl, karate girl
No idea if they're trashy or not
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>>28699
Sony Chiba stars in several movies loosely base on the more urban myths aspects of Mas Oyama. Completely insane B movies.


https://youtu.be/kxxaViw2K0M
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>>28791
>>28699
Oh ya an also fighter in the wind is loosely based on Oyama as well in that case a much more Korean nationalist perspective
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>>27290
BJJ had a problem in Brazil of turning kids into roving street gangs that would storm dojos and pick on undesirables like drug users or whatnot. If you ever had to deal with militant straight edge kids it was kind of like that. There was also kind of a class warfare aspect to it, it was a way for the wealthy to affirm their status and for strivers to ingratiate themselves. A lot of the rivals of the BJJ kids were just poorer and came from no gi grappling schools. There also some rumors that a good portion of them were literally gay with each other, but that might be a rumor.

Anyway this all seems to be unique to the bizarre social climate of Brazil. There are some cocky jiu jitsu prodigies that get really arrogant for a few years but I've never seen outright bullying develop.
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>>28713
Kuro-obi is fantastic.
To bad I can't convince anyone I know irl to watch it because subtitle only.
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>>29064
they sound like absolute plebs
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>>29064
trying to find it can only find a 360p on youtube, do you have it physically or?
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>>29102
I don't remember where I origonally watched it but it's on putlockers.fm under the name Black Belt (2007).

Try searching for the movie called black belt and you might have better luck.
Also google sucks so that can also cause problems.
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>>28601
We did "breakdown" our kata, yes. After we were taught the pattern, we did paired drills based on the techniques in the solo kata. Then after that we had what judoka call "randori" where practices the techniques without the set pattern. Then when we sparred we were supposed to aver ourselves of those techniques, but it usually didn't come to that. Sometimes we'd see somebody pull off a perfectly timed technique as trained in kata study and he'd get all of the asspats, but tbqh with a bunch of younger men in the class it was like the IRL version of a fighting game were somebody tries to make a couple of signature moves work and pads out the opportunity to use them with basic and straightforward kickboxing.
>>28623
I believe you. TSD gives me the impression that it's the least BS of the Korean martial arts in a post-WTF world.
>>28554
I guess but IDK why I'd bother when there are already perfectly functional striking styles in Korea and elsewhere. It makes more sense to just encourage TKD to go back to how it was before the Kukkikwan made it all about Olympic grandeur rather than engineer something that was never about self-defense to start with.
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>>28624
In the mid-2010s, I had the autismal urge to start reading up on the histories of different martial arts. I went deep down the rabbit hole of prevarications and tall tales that immerses Korean martial arts. I noticed "taekkyon" start being dropped as the alleged common root for all of the different KMAs. Each claimed this style I'd never heard of before 2013-ish as a parent influence. Taekwondo was now "taekkyon plus karate." All of a sudden hapkido was "daito-ryu aikijutsu mixed with taekkyon." Like taekkyon was this spice that blended with any martial art makes it as Korean as kimchi.

So I looked it up and the first thing I found was a UNICEF video spotlighting it as part of the living cultural heritage of Korea and how it was basically saved from death by one old enthusiast. Pretty cool story until they started retreading the highly dubious claim that Imperial Japan suppressed and tried to destroy taekkyon and "all of the other native Korean martial arts." That's a kettle of bullshit for a different discussion, but it made my almonds activate about what I watched. Then I saw another video YouTube's algorithms recommended me where some guy went to Seoul to study Taekkyon. Some dude, I shit you not, demonstrates doing a leaping reverse crescent kick as a viable technique for disarming a gunman. Not even the most delusional Krav Maga faggot will do that and tell you it's practical with a straight face. After that, another video showed "combat taekkyon" where a guy jumped on another man's back like he wanted a piggyback ride and just pounded hammer blows onto his traps like an angry monkey.

I trolled Wikipedia and the sources on their article and found out that truth about taekkyon being a game rather than a combat sport. There was a even a Korean-American guy in the discussion tab of the article refusing to back down against Korean nationalists and feverishly countering their edits with stubborn facts.
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>>29484
I think the thing about a lot of the Taekkyon masters being killed by Imperial Japan is true but mainly because it was indigenous Korean culture, not because there was any sort of threat from them to their armies or anything ridiculous about that. Either that or it wasn't targetted but they died anyway from more general oppression.

Otherwise yeah, everything you're saying checks out. Especially w/regards to TKD people trying to use it to blur TKD's essentially purely shotokan roots.
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>>29545
The degree to which Imperial Japan oppressed the Koreans and tried to overwrite Korean culture is highly debatable outside of Korea itself. It's kind of a /his/ thing to go into, but prevailing racial theory adopted as state ideology by Japan at the time stated that the Yamato people were descended from Korea. This meant that Koreans got at the very least house nigger treatment from the Japanese compared to pretty much every other colony they conquered.

With specific relevancy to /xs/, the excuse doesn't fly because Korea never really had any highly developed native martial arts to suppress in the first place besides gungdo (archery). Korea did not have a strongly martial public culture. The influence of Neo-Confucianism made the soldierly life and military professions a necessary but lowly regarded pursuit. Taekkyon wasn't targeted for destruction by the dastardly nips but was already falling into obscurity before the 1910s because young people thought of it as some Boomer shit. Pretty much all of the KMA post-WWII have been coping over not having mystical kung fu woo to sell the outside world by making it up as they go along.
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>>29568
It's not highly debatable. They tried to destroy the native language for one. You can argue about preferential treatment but if they're going after the language then they're absolutely trying to literally overwrite the culture. Oppression doesn't always have to be all about race.

Agree broadly in terms of Korea not really having as broad a martial tradition as their neighbours - heck, even China's martial arts heritage is basically becoming another bludgeon in the soft power wars.
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>>29484
>some guy refusing to back down against Korean nationalists and feverishly countering their edits with stubborn facts.
>some guy with a belligerent political opinion countering their facts with feverish propaganda.

They are practically the same sentence.
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Anyone know where I could find some english (or korean with english subtitles - maybe better) taekkyon tutorials?

It sounds really interesting, but all I'm finding is in korean.
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>>29545
Some of the weird as fuck kicks in hapkido and yongmudo come directly from taekkyon, but they are on the lower end of the practical scale and usually modified as fancy counters or as set ups to other more straight forward techniques.
Like using the weird heel edge crescent kick type thing to the shins from a clench to set up for throws. Or using a ball of the foot front kick to someones hip joint to counter a then winding up for a kick a bit too obviously. Or using a hook kick using the ball of the foot from a side hold kind of clench to hit them from behind from a unexpected angle.

Weird shit like that. The kicks biomechanically don't have much power, but because they are not typical they can be used to gain a very slight advantage in a few situations.
Some are just goofy though, like the one that you try to do a weird heel kick to a persons kidneys while being held in a clench. Seen someone try it twice during sparing and they were instantly thrown both times because you basically did the hard part and set up for them and put yourself in the perfect position to get thrown.
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>>29580
>It's not highly debatable.
Why? Because you say so? Wrong. The Japanese occupation of Korea is the slint-eyed equivalent of "muh six trillion."
>They tried to destroy the native language for one.
No they didn't, actually. That's post-war ROK state propaganda. The Japanese, in reality, brought the Hangul alphabet back after decades of disuse. The Korean alphabet, while quite useful as it was designed from the ground-up for literacy, was dismissed as inferior by the Chinaboo state. Korean students were taught to write in Hangul using Korean language grammar in the new elementary schools established by the Japanese. Korean was dropped from university requirements, but Korean linguistics continued to be studied. The office of the Governor General encouraged all of his subordinates to learn Korean. Movies were shot in undubbed Korean throughout the entire colonial period. Korean-language newspapers were in circulation.
The Japanese invested a lot in understanding Korea's language because, kind of like the Nazi norseaboos, they wanted to discover some big deal truth in esoteric deep dives in scrolls and parchments. The worst they did as far as overwriting cultural norms was conglomerate the Korean being taught and used in official capacities into a common dialect because the three prevalent pre-colonial dialects were so different as to complicate communication. Korean has more vocabulary and grammar in common with Japanese than Chinese, and that was used by Imperialist ideologues to argue that Koreans are not even racially distinct from the Yamato.
>>29600
>Muh both sides
Fuck off. The person in question was linking objective facts confirmed by third party sources outside of Korea that the official Korean line was specious at best.
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>>29627
Not surprised that Hapkido borrows techniques from Taekkyon, considering that Hapkido will basically take techniques from damn near anywhere regardless of whether they're useful or not
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>>29635
>Why? Because you say so? Wrong. The Japanese occupation of Korea is the slint-eyed equivalent of "muh six trillion."
Holocaust denial is the biggest meme of historical revisionism and casts a dim light over everything else you're claiming lol.
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>>29642
>Questioning the sacred number is the same as denial.
It's a "meme" purely because of politics and emotion and not the merit of reinspecting the event. Only schizos off their meds say "the holohoax was a lie!" but it's intellectually dishonest to conflate that with saying that "only" 4 million died.

Similarly, Japan's colonial era brutalized many territories, but not all equally and the degree to which they imposed themselves over Korea is clouded by bias both from the subsequently established Korean government and the inclination of people in the Allied nations to take their word on it ahead of Japanese or other accounts. A quite understandable bias, but still one that leaves Occidentals vulnerable to total bullshit.

Like Taekwondo being a 6,000-year-old indigenous Korean martial art trained by tribal chieftains so their hunters could kill game with their bare hands and feet.
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>>29637
You ain't wrong.
It's fun to do but they spend so much time devoted to low percentage nearly useless or actually useless stuff that it's no surprise so few come out of it actually being able to fight.
Yongmudo is a little better in that regard but has many of the same problems.
I think most kitchen sink styles run into similar issues unless they spar a lot. Like every class or so.
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>>28514
be a man right now and off yourself
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Korean faggot facing off with a ccp faggot in this thread. Very entertaining.
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>>29653
>There are people right now who are older than 35
Our society is pussified and feminized
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>>21627
>goju is so superior because there's no ambiguous "bunkai" with the kata
6/10. Here is your complimentary (you).
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>>28601
>although if I had to guess is there almost no connection between what you do in kata and sparring,but you just do katas anyway
As a judoka that did karate as a kid, a lot of the kata movements seem more like dirty boxing and clinching kind of movements.
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>>29474
>I believe you. TSD gives me the impression that it's the least BS of the Korean martial arts in a post-WTF world.
They don't even do TSD in Korea anymore apparently, you just can't find it it's all TKD or Hapkido now
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>>29637
I know a hapkido master been to a few seminars there is some real useful shit in there but we do dumb meme bullshit most of the time it's really annoying
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>>29691
whats some of the useful shit that you enjoy?
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>>29694
The low kicks and groundwork mostly latter just coming from Jiu jitsu anyway
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>>29697
To be fair the bulk of the art is Aiki-jūjutsu with extra stuff added later.
So it is mostly jujutsu, including the dumb meme bullshit you don't like.
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>>29681
It seems to me gleaning from the political history of KMA that Tang Soo Do and Mul Duk Kwan were essentially squeezed out of the domestic scene over time owing to their refusal in being assimilated by the kukkikwan/WTF.
>>
I am straight up tired of forms.

I keep getting told I will get it later. That I will eventually enjoy them.
Been 5 years. I am a second degree blackbelt. Still hate kata and don't see the point of them.
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>>29834
As someone who dipped from Karate to bjj and Kickboxing for some months to find out if i really learnt anyhing at all in Karate, i must say that i think that Kata are just long technique sequences or shitty Shadowboxing. There is sadly no point where i see them more useful then just training single techniques.I dont know why the japanese love them so much, they give a false sense of what real fighting is like and can teach a false sense of rythm for fighting too. They are good to learn power transitioning between techniques however.
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>>29834
Yeah imo you will eventually enjoy them, for me it was like that, at some point you feel like doing them in your free time and try to "solve" them, but it's purely a game. Doing kata without imagining an opponent and a real application is even more useless, only practice what you know a decent meaning of.

With corona you might as well do them, but if you can train with a resisting opponent at anything it's 1000 times better than any kata.
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>>29836
Blame Funakoshi for that 1. The original use was like a dictionary of techniques that could evolve with time. Funakoshi change intent to main focus of practice karate.
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>>7466
Full contact karate with face strikes has been a niche thing for a long time it has always been there in various formats thing is that for normal person no reason to train it over kickboxing.

https://youtu.be/kU8EEgheuh0

https://youtu.be/GA7r1-97HEE

https://youtu.be/vvJo4B50TVI

https://youtu.be/pvY0AVmWlHU

https://youtu.be/3Soon0WuRoM
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>>29994
I'll have to add that 3rd video to the official goju compilation
thanks for sharing
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>>29999
Why the fuck are you so hard ridden to put a style that strenght doesnt lie in its sparring to elevate as the hardcore sparring style
Thats retarded
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>>30039
I love that is specifically goju ryu too and not any other karate or just karate in general haha
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>>29994
>that for normal person no reason to train it over kickboxing.
I mean there is all the other stuff that comes with karate
>>
*ahem* thoughts on Funakoshi?
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>>30181
You can either argue that he made karate into the important martial art it is today or that he ruined it and that karate is still trying to repair the damage that he did to its reputation. Either way, hugely important guy
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>>30181
He made Karate famous for better or worse.
If you look into him you get the picture if a man who saw Karate as code of chivalry who put emphasis on Kata to streamline it. The few stories of his real fighting experiences against some Okinawan thugs sound rather flowery and like urban legends, he also got his ass kicked by Motobu Choki who had a more hands apprach on Karate. Ironically i dont think Karate would be where it is now without Funakoshis streamlining but i think like any generalization and his overfocus on Kata took away sone of the strength of Karate.
Also his life philosophy and his "rules" for Karate don't really make sense, especially nowadays. But thats just my own personal opinion
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>>30039
>>30155
I have never seen photos of gojufag but something tells me he's a fat fuck.
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>>30184
>>30182
Yeah its complicated. We might not even be practicing if it wasn't for him, but also while it might be watered down because of him we also know about legit karate and a bunch of sub-styles have formed from people researching Karate's origins
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Funakoshi looks like a salesman. Real karateka Motobu Choki looks legit and it's no wonder he kicked his ass
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>>30181
I have both his books I read them as a kid. I remember some based parts where he went on the roof during a storm and where he said something like to me the place of a women will always be the kitchen
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>>30272
LMAO
Thanks for the for the laugh
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>>30181
Misinterpreted figure.
The blame people put on him comes directly from Anko Itosu, but no one dares criticize him because he was actually good. Funakoshi introduced nothing different from Itosu's orders, he didn't even use long stances, he even prohibited point-fighting tournaments.
They both decided that the philosophical aspect of karate was more important than the practicality of it, and adapted it to make school programs and a tool for military motivation.
Funakoshi was chosen by Itosu for a reason, he was an excellent diplomat and scholar, he didn't give a shit about who was the best fighter.

The long stances are attributed to his son Gigo, with the descriptions of the time praising him for it, saying he broke makiwaras with his punches and had an immovable stance. He died very early and eventually Nakayama took over, with funakoshi's death they started having point-fighting tournaments

Imo the original tournaments they have at the JKA aren't bad, the shit ones are the WKF ones because they started using gloves to appeal to a wider audience

I don't know who to blame for applications, because in Funakoshi's times they were still a secret only to be passed to the favourite student, while Nakayama recorded videos showing everyone awful applications he either made up on purpose to appease westerners who kept asking for them, or he just knew that little because Funakoshi didn't teach him enough
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>>30282
It is very funny I open it to check for the quote an the first couple of pages are about how he could not get into medical school, because he refused to cut his top knot. He then became an elementary school teacher and has to cut it off anyway. He then starts dispelling myths about karate insane feats of strength and just a couple of pages later he is recounting his own masters insane feats of strength....
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>>30292
It's funny but I kind of like that there is still mystery's to be found in karate techniques even if its the result of rampant autism, people everywhere are still developing or discovering bunkai
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>>30299
Well said
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>>30299
The search for knowledge is often more helpful than the knowledge itself
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>>30272
> I remember some based parts where he went on the roof during a storm and where he said something like to me the place of a women will always be the kitchen

At the same time?
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>>30533
No like the roof story is talking about his past the kitchen thing is his current opinion just the parts of the book I remember. I also remember him writing about how his students were fighting in the war.
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>>30574
I assume the reflection is a compromising detail.
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>>30575
well maybe you figured out where I was working before the shutdowns lol
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>out 5 weeks from a leg injury
>come back, 2 weeks left until a grading
>do fine first week, getting ready
>hurt my back in my sleep, can't even do my stretches now
>going to miss grading and more training
just fucking kill me bros
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>>30617
What I did whenever I got injured was to do what I could still do while resting that was martial arts related - watch fights, think about application, do grip strength exercises, play martial arts related videogames etc
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>>30641
yeah binged megalobox and played some tekken scratched a bit of the itch
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>>30187
Post your body
I'm 215
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>>30723
Jobber aura
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>>30723
big dick, defined arms, shapely physique, thick head of hair. Time to sign up for goju!
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What karate-style should I do? I've been eyeing shotokan for some bit, but is there a style in general that's not McDojo-level bullshit

I've got a brown belt in Judo, so I know the basics of throws and takedowns, as well as some of the general Japanese budo-culture.
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>>30995
okinawan style, specifically goju
shotokan is the cancer that made karate retarded
funakoshi was the original karate charlatan that was regarded a a master by his students but also couldn't defeat regular street trash in a 1v1 fight
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>>30999
>specifically goju
How come? I really don't know anything about karate, I just thought shotokan looked cool
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>>31002
Its the Goju tard
Dont take him seriously, hes a shitposter

What styles do you have in the area, do you live in america or europe?

The most reliable are: Kyokushin or most other full contact styles, Okinawan styles (yes, Goju too but not for tournament fighting like this retard keeps proclaiming but the excellent techniques and Bunkai) and the most wide spread Style that is mostly ok anywhere is Shotokan but its point sparring but teaches decent technique and power development (I trained shotokan for 7 years onwards with 2 years bjj and 1 year KB and 1 year judo). Shotokan is a good style if you cross train with a style that spars. If you dont care for sparring (although its important for getting a feel of what is good and realistic and what not but each their own) or only want to do point sparring, Shotokan is fine as it is. Karate has a very deverse styles with some, more some less realistic- Just say which one you have in the area and what you would like for you style to have.
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>>31013
how did kyokushin manage to become a legit combat sport when it had so much bs promotion initially lol

https://youtu.be/HbJY9Uu2m2c

https://youtu.be/brHuxeV029E
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>>30995
what this guy>>31013 said really. the Tang Soo Do I do has good sparring and technique/self defence but I think I kind of struck gold, still might be worth looking into TSD places near you, Kyokushin can be a good bet but if its IKO it will probably just be sparring and conditioning with some kata and self defence like once every 2 months that being said you will become hard as fuck anyway

>>31031
Oyama was so full of shit a lot of the time, but really the stuff he actually did was still impressive
>>
does shotokan seriously only do point sparring
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>>31039
Yes
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>>30995
Don't listen to the goju autist, if you have to choose between point-sparring gyms, they're all the same, only thing that matters is how much sparring they do and how heavy, the more the better.
Shito-ryu has a ridiculous amount of katas and uses some fucking autistic stances
Shotokan at its worst (personal experience) has some autistic teachers who insist on you fighting with a long stance (but never tried once in their lives to actually use it in a fight), and think sparring is only for black belts who can "control their punches" (basically they don't want you to find out they have nothing to teach you besides katas), at its best you just learn to properly fight with a "long range" style ala Lyoto Machida.

Wado-ryu was made by a guy who did japanese jiu-jitsu (pre-judo) so you might find that one fun

Like with every bad martial art, it all depends on the instructor. Best thing you can do is find an instructor who also knows something good, like say who cross-trains in boxing or wrestling or even judo
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>>31041
>Best thing you can do is find an instructor who also knows something good, like say who cross-trains in boxing or wrestling or even judo
This, they generally know how to apply the techniques better than some so called masters
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>>31041
>Shotokan only has kata to teachi tebd to disagree
Shotokans strength also lies in its very good basis and basic techniques that can get quite powerful/useful under the right teacher
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>>31043
>tebd
I wanted to write i tend to disagree
Brainfart
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>>31043
Yeah I mean that some shit instructors try to keep you busy with anything but sparring to hide their inadequacy in that (and these people are 10'000th dan)
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>>31013
>literally every full contact karate style is derived from goju
>REEE STOP SAYING GOJU IS A FULL CONTACT FIGHTING STYLE!!!!

its honestly getting sad at this point
https://youtu.be/4pBLM5d-Xms

I'm not sure why in the face of such overwhelming evidence, even corroboration from other styles of karate as to gojus legitimacy as a full contact fighting style that you refuse to accept it
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>>31031
The BS promotion was to get people in the door, the training was actually legit. Equivalent of Tapout T-shirts and trash metal for MMA.

>>31064
Goju is not a full-contact style, the majority of Goju guys would get massacred if they tried to compete in legitimate full-contact karate tournaments
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>>31076
you can keep typing it all you want but it wont make it true
just like on human weapon when they sent the guys to train goju to prepare them for their full contact fight against a kyokushin guy
they didn't sent them to learn shotokan, they sent them to learn goju
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>>31082
Uh yeah sure buddy whatever
Kinda sad that you cant see the good points of your own style and try to ham fist it as full contact style but whatever
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>>31090
the good points are it's a fully complete martial art of striking and grappling used for effective self defense
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>>31096
lol
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>>31096
There are goju ryu schools that spar full contact or participate in open kyokushin tournaments implement modern grappling techniques and maybe even larp about stuff like an outside block in kata being a oint lock or whatever. All those kind of things exist but on the whole it is not a full contact style. This is what typical goju ryu competition looks like :

https://youtu.be/IM_5zix-KQQ

My old shotokan dojo had several ISKA amateur kickboxing champions and the sparring we did was basically just kickboxing, but I can recognize that this is atypical and not representative of the style. You may go to a goju ryu place with heavy emphasis on sparring, but this is not the normal case.
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>>31100
>world
who care's what a bunch of european faggots do?
>>
REMINDER: Chojun Miyagi claimed that white people are incapable of acquiring the spirit of bushido and are therefore incapable of fully mastering goju-ryu, so if you are white and go to train goju you are a KEK!
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>>30995
Real talk: Before you worry about which style you should pursue, you need to just look within the radius of where you're willing to travel regularly to practice and see what's actually there. I'd love to train Goju-ryu, actually, and judo but those just don't exist around me. I became one of those BJJ/MT dudes because that's literally all I've got, LOL.
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>>31111
that was gogen yamaguchi actually, he was a student of chojun miyagi and appointed himself as the true successor to the approval of nobody
then when the american GIs showed up in japan he taught them wrong as a joke and handed out a bunch of black belts to people that may or may nor have deserved them
and his comments about white people being unable to teach may have been an attempt to cover his own ass because then everyone would see his black belts didn't know anything, so he tried to suppress it
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>>31103
Even in Okinawa the main thing they do is just kata and, if it's a special day, kata with knives
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>>31039
>does shotokan seriously only do point sparring
Where I train shotokan in class we do continuous sparring where we exercise control as to not injure our partners. I've only gone to a few competitions, but all of those only had point sparring.
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>>31041
>>30995
I've done Wado-ryu for a while, we have a fairly even split between traditional stuff (e.g. kata, drills) and 'sports' sparring- the stuff about actually crippling people and fighting a bit dirtily came at intermediate black belt level rather than colored belts (age came into it as well, I started young) but I'd heartily recommend it for people who want a more dynamic style
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>>31152
meant to add- a few of our instructors cross-trained boxing, BJJ, kendo etc so we had some interesting stuff creep in around black belt level, but that's just down to the club
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>seeing pictures of the grading I couldn't get to because of my back
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>>31152
This "black belt only" shit really needs to disappear
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>>31170
If you make your Karate revolve around belts then i suggest doing a Martial art without belts and full contact to see how little belts mean at the end of the day
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>>31197
I do full contact karate and I've done boxing, obviously its not all about the belts but missing a grading and classes due to injury when you had just recovered from another injury still fucking sucks
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>>31182
I don't see the issue with it if the mindset is appropriately that having a black belt represents the real start of training after the kyus teach the fundamentals rather it being a symbol of mastery. The only martial art I know of that makes the black belt some holy grail is BJJ and that's just because the Gracie's bought into and exploited the bullshit misconception that black belts mean dick.
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>>31082
they were just visiting different karate styles, most of their training was kyokushin
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>>31211
BJJ treats it as a holy grail but at the same time becoming a black belt in BJJ also does carry a bit more respectability than black belts in most martial arts. There's more quality control there.
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>>31224
Thtats maybe the case in america, most TMA schools in europe dont give you dick if you didnt train at least 3 to 4 years
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>>31224
The point is it's not supposed to be some great pinnacle, and the Gracies turned it into one for marketing purposes. Also "quality control" can include horseshit like eating the Gracie meme diet.
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>>31229
You can train 3-4 years in a lot of TMA and still be a far worse fighter than a guy who's done six months of boxing. There are exceptions of course, like Kyokushin and some other karate styles, but BJJ's always managed a fair amount of quality control over the black belt level.
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>>31256
Bjj is the most autistic about belts out of every style, yes.
Judo, the system's originator is next.

Everyone else seems to consider it mostly as silly ribbons to make you feel like you accomplished something. Like that quote by Napoleon.

I think not taking that kind of tinsel seriously is more healthy. Just get better.

I think its part of what makes BJJ a more asian, hierarchical martial art. Social proof is part of the system.

Western martial arts tend to be a bit more casual in their presentation. You're not a warrior for the brand. You're just trying to get good at something. That seems more healthy.
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>>31256
well that depends how you look at it since the gracies never actually earned black belts from anyone, they only got to blue belt under donato perez (never trained with maeda, helio was 5 years old when he was in brazil) and at first they weren't dishonest about it and the gracies themselves wore blue belts and the students wore white belts and there's nothing wrong with that
but then they went and self promoted to 9th dan grand masters

their belts were a farce from day 1
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>>31256
The one thing has nothing to do with how much you are better in some non belt system martial art, it was about the general approach about schools giving out belts like candy. BJJ is highly dependet about this topic too depending where you train.
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>>31256
I think as long as people doing those kinds of arts know that they are not fighters and can't expect to beat fighters what is the harm in that? Kyokushin trains fighters, most other karate styles do not. Not everyone will tolerate the inevitable injuries of combat sports,especially striking. If they want to learn some martial arts techniques in a non contact environment that is fine, the problem is only when they are deluded into thinking they can beat people who box, wrestle etc.
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>>31308
>I think as long as people doing those kinds of arts know that they are not fighters and can't expect to beat fighters what is the harm in that?

No harm if they know that but frequently they do not. Aikidokas are especially well known for drinking the kool-aid.

But my point is that if you hear about a guy who has a black belt in TKD you know he probably can do some good kicks - or that his mother paid 100 dollars for him to feel better when he was 14. If you hear about a guy who has a blackbelt in karate you know that he probably is tough as nails with good lowkicks and high kicks from close range - or that he can do interpretative dance.

But if a guy has a BJJ black belt, you know that he is definitely going to be able to choke the average guy out. There's more respect there.
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>>31321
>Aikidokas are especially well known for drinking the kool-aid.
now It makes me think of that video, you know the one, where the guy made that selfie video about how aikido is better than bjj and then showed up to a gym to prove it
so they put him against this bald guy who beat the fuck out of him....with kickboxing??
and everyone was going haha take that faggot knew you were full of shit!

and while he was clearly delusional the bald retard didn't actually prove a point. He used no bjj at all to defeat him, he just punched and kicked him a bunch
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>>31231
Yeah, people in the Occident mock the concept of child black belts and use it as a reason to discount karate or taekwondo, but it's not uncommon in Okinawa to see 8-year-old shodans because... it doesn't represent mastery of anything but the fundamentals. It just means you decided to take it halfway seriously to stick through it instead of giving it up for a different hobby. This true in judo as well. Only reason it isn't in BJJ is, as posted before, the Gracies were aware of the divide between the expectation of it being a great achievement and designed their progression system around it.

Anything higher than 5th dan is mostly just wanking off.
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>>31321
Yah I guess that's the benefit of soft styles like point sparring is they still see how much skill it takes to be good and its not hard to extrapolate how much harder something like kickboxing is from that. But with stuff like aikido people who don't know any better might actually think its magic if all they do are compliant drills.
>>
Newbie at teaching here.
How do you guys normally structure your class and what is your goals when teaching?

It feels like I am expected to just go through the motions of basic movements, forms, then sparing and little else. But it is very clear that such a method has lead to many deficiencies in the students.
I am not experienced or knowledgeable about teaching classes of people. I can coach like a small handful of people competently but beyond 3 or 4 and I feel like I am doing a shit job.
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>>31353
>Anything higher than 5th dan is mostly just wanking off.

Anything higher than 5th dan is either wanking off or an administrative post
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>>31362
What do you teach? What are you trying to achieve, and what do your students expect to achieve?
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>>31362
Just follow the program and as you get better you start realizing what's more or less important, and obviously the more people listening the harder it is for everyone to understand the same things, so the simpler the better. I wouldn't bother doing everything, pick one between basics, kata, sparring, or extra and center the lesson of the day around that one and try to have a "cohesive" theme.
Imo most important thing is teach shit you know well first because it will come easier. There's also the psychological aspect of things you can only learn by yourself, like seeing which way of talking gets people more motivated, or what kind of behavior people assume when they don't like what you're teaching.

Every time I tried doing "extra" stuff I had the head teacher look at me weird and think I was wasting time just because it didn't come from him, for that stuff I had to do it little by little, waiting for the right context. I think he'll never accept it fully, but I think he started realizing he doesn't know everything.

Also you can (should) look at how people better than you teach and "borrow" from them
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>>31391
Thanks for the sound advice.
I will try to have more focused lessons and see how that goes for a bit.
It's just feels so sub optimal whatever I do when it comes to teaching several people at once.
I feel like I can accomplish more with a student in a hour holding thai pads and teaching directly then I can in a month teaching a group.
>>31382
>What do you teach?
Karate lol.
>What are you trying to achieve
Make the people who show up to train become competent martial artists.
>and what do your students expect to achieve?
Varies wildly from student-to-student. Though it seems like most of the female students act like they don't want to be there and have no goals which does mildly piss me off.
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>>31391
damn my teacher lets me do whatever the fuck I want in the lesson plan as long as I know what I'm doing feel pretty lucky
>>
I self promoted to black belt
I was with my instructor for 11 years and he kept saying to me "something big is coming your way soon" almost every day "something big is coming your way soon"
but it got to the point where he had been saying that to me for like 2 years

and the main issue is I was teaching class every time. and I was left wondering why I'm paying membership fees when I'm the one teaching class every day
any time I'm there he goes "you're in charge" and he goes and does something else

so I quit and bought my own black belt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4y5tA93Q_U
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>>31616
I know a guy like that, who keeps giving empty promises in exchange for you teaching in his stead, then after a couple of years of you getting tired of his bullshit he just finds someone else to do the same thing, he used to gift me bullshit like old martial arts magazines or a black belt with his fucking name on it in japanese (which I only noticed because I could read it), or an oversized, stiff, blue upper part of a gi.
He's an absolute mess of a teacher who keeps forgetting shit and cutting corners, yet somehow that shit never ends up firing back at him
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>>31623
he took advantage of my good nature. Once he came to me and said he needed $1000 and I gave it to him because I had it in my savings and he has 4 kids so I figured he needed it more than me at that time
and he said if I give him the money I don't have to pay for a whole year which is actually a good deal that saves me money in the long run
but 6 months later he says he needs another $1500.
I haven't even used up the time I already prepaid for, I can't give him more money already. That's when I realized he was taking advantage of me.

and I don't think he was doing it maliciously, I've known the guy for a long time and I know he has a big family and money problems so I get it, I think he was just asking as a favor to help him out and not because he was trying to scam me. But he went to the well too many times and I felt like I was giving a lot in this relationship and not receiving anything back
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>>31616
Did you sit down and have a man to man talk about it where all the stuff was brought up clearly and directly?

I mean my karate teacher ain't good ether but when I brought up lack of progress he at least admitted he had nothing left that he could teach me and that I was already more "advanced" then he was able teach so instead he wanted me to learn how to be a instructor. Not that he taught me how to do that despite having a masters in education and been teaching for longer then I have been alive.
Didn't withhold ranks though.
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>>31616
Now go train in isolation in the mountains for 3 years then come back an take revenge on your karate sensei
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>>31724
not exactly
he said for me to have a black belt I need to prove myself in a fight against someone he decided was good enough and said he has been looking around
but he never set the fight up and I got tired of waiting
so then I entered a submission only jiujitsu tournament and got second place but I guess that wasn't enough for him
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>>31764
>so then I entered a submission only jiujitsu tournament and got second place but I guess that wasn't enough for him
holy fuck
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>>31779
https://youtu.be/7KF4iJzBVWM
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>>31488
So tried focused lesson where I kept things simple to begin with.
Starting with just going over the basics of doing a front punch then reverse punch from front stance on a punching bag.
One of the girls then sprained her wrist because she kept doing the punches wrong whenever I wasn't directly looking at her. This isn't a white belt. This is a brown belt (4th) 15 year old who has been doing this for 2 years.
Still can't throw a punch without hurtting herself.

Others couldn't figure out how to punch with one hand and keep the other hand up protecting the face at the same time. And would drop both hands to punch anytime I was not directly looking at them.

After that I went over a forward backward movement drill from front/fighting stance.
None could do this more then a few times before ending up totally sideways for some reason.
Tried to add the punches to this.
Had to literally remind them to breath because many would hold their breath the whole movement for some bizarre reason despite going over breathing in nearly every class.

Did a quick quiz of what the basic movements we do in every single class and have been doing for years.
It was like pulling teeth. They would raise their hand enthusiastically only to have nothing to say when called on. I don't even...
Anyway then the head instructor just starting nagging that we should get on to forms/kata.
So despite it being super clear that everyone needed work on basics
Did that then went to sparing.
Which was whatever. Spent the whole time trying to convince one of the adults who is special needs that he needs to keep his hands up when he attacks. Mainly by lightly tapping him on the head and face nearly every time.
Still didn't get it though and kept teeing off like he does on the punching bag. Stopped trying to kick full force when I started using hard blocks rather then just stepping away.
I don't want to have to use pain to correct him, but he does eventually have gain control.
Long way to go
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>>32048
>Others couldn't figure out how to punch with one hand and keep the other hand up protecting the face at the same time. And would drop both hands to punch anytime I was not directly looking at them.
not a karate guy specifically but I've had this same problem working kickboxing with newbies. I don't understand why its such a hard concept to grasp.
>>
>>32048
>>32049
They're only thinking about the punching arm, not the changing structure throughout the body.
If you only focus on the obvious part, the flesh from that part will pull on the other parts of the body.
They don't know what to do with the middle of their body. They're given the end point, but not how to get there.
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>>32048
>This is a brown belt
>15yo
>for 2 years
The fuck? If she trains 2 hours a week at this point she should be around orange belt
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>>31764
>karateka wins 2nd place in jiu jitsu tourney
>not worthy
jej
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>went through a big slump
>put on alot of weight
>ended up 125kg
>been a couple of years down to about 100 but struggling
>still have a gut
>teaching
I feel weird, like I'm not setting a good example. But I need the money and teaching honestly just feels so good, I can see them improving
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>>32232
want to know some other bullshit about it?
I had 9 matches that day and since it was submission only it was 15 minute matches and then overtime rounds
but there was no time limit on the finals

I went into the finals against someone named mike
the problem is there were 2 people named mike in the bracket and they sent the wrong one into the match, so I had my finals match against the person that was supposed to be in the 3rd place match
so I had a 25 minute match against him and won, and then they said they made a mistake and I actually had to have a match against the other mike that was supposed to be in the bracket. So I had a 25 minute battle with someone while he sat on the bleachers resting and then got sent almost immediately right into it. And he was just much too physically explosive for me to fight against. He was already big and strong and I was so diminished from what I had just done there's no way I could keep up
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>>32246
What's wrong with having a power lifter's build? It's not like you aren't strong.
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>>32268
it's far from a power lifters build, I work out but its still more of the fat cunt side. That being said I have a lot of power with this weight which feels pretty good there is muscle under the fat so a small part of me doesn't want to get back to 85 anyway, but I don't think the power will go anywhere think that's just excuses
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>>32268
if you can lift 300lbs on a bench that's great, but if you do that while standing upright and not supported you can't generate that same force because it's going to push yourself backwards
so you should work on 75% of your body weight for explosive reps because then you'll actually be able to recruit that force forward on an object rather than just look cool lifting big in the gym
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>>32187
>If she trains 2 hours a week at this point
Weird assumption to make.
Where are you getting that from?
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>>32048
sounds like a fucking mess considering their age, outside of the special needs guy for obvious reasons
>>32049
I only get this with kids, they are getting better at it but it's been a few months I've been drilling it into them
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>>32300
Nowhere, it's just what they do here
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>>32048
>>32312
Today's class went a lot better, but it was because only 4 people showed up. (tue is a light turnout day)
Mostly focused on roundhouse, basic movements, lots and lots of drills, test kicks, and breathing while moving, along with a good sparing session.
Because the head instructor bounced super early before class even started I just straight up skipped forms/kata for more time with drills and sparing.
They made good progress and had a lot of fun even if they half looked like they were about to collapse since I kept the work rate high. Still after class once they caught their breath they told me they liked it and that it was a good workout.

Now if only I could figure out how to get good results with more then 4 people.

Sorry for turning this thread into a blog for my teaching struggles.
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>>32342
>Sorry for turning this thread into a blog for my teaching struggles.
This is essentially the Karate general and it should be exchanging ideas and shit helping each other get better so don't sweat it
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>>32342
>Sorry for turning this thread into a blog for my teaching struggles
Nah it's cool, I think it's fun to talk about this stuff

>after class once they caught their breath they told me they liked it
Man I wish I could do this, my fucking teacher tells me to stop making the kids do 10 push-ups

When we were little we had someone who made us stay still in zenkutsudachi for 5 minutes until someone came back from the bathroom and stuff like that, the other teacher was annoyed by this and convinced the organization head to make him go away, claiming we hated it. He formed his whole identity around not making us do conditioning, and now when I make people sweat he thinks they don't like it, when it's actually the only fun thing about karate.

He later got himself a yesman teacher who agrees with everything he says, so whatever he says you have to make it double; when I spoke to that guy in private he outright told me that in life you have to learn to agree with people even if you actually don't (he's not a bad guy though).
So whatever bullshit he says, if he might have had the afterthought of changing idea later, now he has the other guy confirming it to him.
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>>32342
>I just straight up skipped forms/kata for more time with drills and sparing
Especially if the students already know their kata, assuming kata is gated by rank, there is not really a need to practice it every class since student "should" be practicing at home. Though it sounds like the classes at your dojo are intended to follow more fixed structure as you mentioned before ending with kata and sparring. At my dojo we usually cycle through material in longer time spans. So some weeks we might be focusing more on kata, other weeks sparring, other weeks kobudo, etc. It's mix between trying to touch on everything and trying to work on what students are struggling with the most.
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>>32447
That makes no secense.
You need a certain baseline level of conditioning and strength to even be able to do karate properly.
Even more so if your goal is to have students that are able to effectively use what is being taught.
Even if you come at it from a non-martial perspective, all of the health benifits of doing karate is from it being a good work out.
Just gently going through movements and taxing your memorization isn't enough.
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>>32478
He just has a hatred for conditioning exercises, the rest is fine, he'd rather have you do kihon instead of push-ups. He doesn't make you do things gently, but he doesn't push people hard either
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>>32447
Is this jesus turning over the money lenders tables?
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>>32494
kek
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>>7466

Very cool. Where do I sign up?
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new thread
>>32744
>>32744
>>32744
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>>26532
All I see in your posts is a huge amount of justification to train far less effectively in a martial art that's just mma, but worse. Smaller talent pool, headgear and almost no ground game. For what? To wear a gi? To get a black belt? You realise you can join a mma gym and still get that traditional nonsense in the bjj gi classes, right? Why is it so important to you to do something esoteric? Training from videos you'll progress super slowly and end up with bad habits. And if you find a group to train with at best you'll be a big fish in a small pond. Biting the bullet and training properly is what you need, but it's your choice.



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