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Oly fencers could beat most HEMA “practitioners” if given a real rapier.
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>>72680
Half the hema fencers I know either were or are practicing sport fencers tho

Also foil and epee are based on smallsword not rapier you retard
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>>72680
A rapier is 3-5 times heavier than mof weapons, so I'm not entirely sure.
I'm pretty they'd still beat a lof of HEMAists simply by being faster and more athletic.
And if you're talking "real rapier" as in sharp then both would probably die
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>>72680

Literally not the case, there are lots of sport fencers in my club and they can only beat the newbs and get rekt by the experienced members (unless they're also veterans).

Suicidal lunges dont win shit if the opponent knows how to fence. The biggest advantage is the leg work.
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>>72680
nah dawg
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>>72766
>My anecdotal experience trumps the fact that MOF has actual athletes and consistent standards for coaching and teaching
I bet you think blade grabs make you a competent fencer lol
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>>72766
>The biggest advantage is the leg work
Which happens to be an enormous advantage that HEMA purists tend to undervalue
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>>72680
They would annihilate any HEMA practitioner fighting with a smallsword at the very least.
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>>72766
This. Love the salt you got in reply.

Sport fencing has some good stuff to teach HEMAists but the idea that spoffs are generally superior is just a self-loathing meme from that one faggot on Reddit.
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>>73035
>Reddit
It’s generally understood that oly fencing is an actual coherent art whereas HEMA is a Frankenstein monster of mismatched techniques and half-baked concepts taught by unqualified individuals from googled PDFs
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>>73021
Stick your sword in my face and do nothing with it you better believe im grabbing it. Not my problem you suck ass at distsncing yourself, fag.
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>>73036
>It’s generally understood that oly fencing is an actual coherent art whereas HEMA is a Frankenstein monster of mismatched techniques and half-baked concepts taught by unqualified individuals from googled PDFs.
HEMA has developed a lot, what you're asserting hasn't true for most clubs at this point, at least not those that are totally isolated from the outside world. There are a lot of self-flagellating HEMAists today that love to shit on their own sport for internet points, who are spreading a lot of bullshit.

The idea that MOFfers are magically better is complete rubbish. We have quite a few with that background in our club. They simply do not dominate at all, they're thoroughly middling and generally stay that way unless they decide to fully switch to HEMA.
>muh footwork
Olympic footwork is horribly limited and fine-tuned for specific rulesets. This if anything makes it harder for them to learn anything that strays from their norms. Footy and tennis will give you better prerequisites for HEMA footwork, as will combat sports such as MMA and kickboxing, where people make great usage of non-linear footwork.
If anything, it's the combat sports guys who are most likely to git gud at an insane pace, not MOFfers.
>upper body problems
Olympic guys always struggle massively with the heavier weapons. Not only does this heavily affect their bladework, but it also totally upsets their footwork as well. This goes with anything from longswords (which is a bit obvious) to rapiers, sideswords (actually the most comical) sabres, and so on.
>they're not gods
Frankly most practitioners of anything suck, and that includes Olympic fencers. A bad Olympic fencer wills till be a bad fencer in HEMA.
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>>72680
SNEED
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>>73046
>Olympic footwork is horribly limited and fine-tuned for specific rulesets
Enormous cope. HEMAtards have no idea how to retreat or gauge distance properly.
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>>73052
I know right. The idea that athletes who compete with a way bigger talent pool can't adapt to fighting some nerds who read some manuals and play fight at their local gym is hilarious.
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>>73052
>>73055
MOFers are good at running away, I'll give you that.
Still, why don't they dominate in practice?
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>>73052
Yes, because every MOFtard is a peak olympic athlete and every HEMAfag is a fat larping American.
Are you actually retarded?
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>>73058
>every HEMAfag is a fat larping American
Correct
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>>73059
Only hema guys worth a shit are slavs. The rest of you may as well be Renaissance fair LARPers.
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Simple fact is oly fencers spend their time training, HEMAfags spend their time online reading manuscripts and arguing about hypotheticals and "realism" of their swordwork. No one over the age of 12 gives a shit about "real" sword fighting.
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>>73060
>Only hema guys worth a shit are slavs
Scandinavians are also damn good.
Basically Eastern and Northern Europe are were good HEMA happens in this world
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>>72680
Oly fencers get the win by default due to their consistent training with other high level fencers. Between the constant physical conditioning they undergo, and the constant development of their reflexes during practice, they have a distinct advantage over non-oly fencers.
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This thread makes it clear that HEMA lives rent-free in everyone's mind, I therefore conclude that it's the superior sport
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>>73133

There was a lot of ego stroking, prestige and mutual jacking off around sport fencing and fencing in general, a bit how being a pilot was, at some point, a sign of status or something.

Then came the nerds and some became actually good at it, and of course real swords are 9999% cooler than a flimsy noodle, thus fencerfags rage.

There's also a big decline in fencing clubs and the sports fencing scene in general, while HEMA clubs are getting bigger and bigger.
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>>73139
>There's also a big decline in fencing clubs and the sports fencing scene in general, while HEMA clubs are getting bigger and bigger.
I think that's 99% of the reason why olympic fencers are butthurt about HEMA practitioners
>>
Why don't they, then? When was the last time an olympic fencer showed up and won Swordfish?
Why aren't all the top rapier and rapier and dagger winners olympic fencers who have never trained HEMA? Why do they keep getting beaten and then whining about it on 4chan?
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>>73231
To be fair, the good fencers are concerned with their own comps not with HEMA shit, so the dudes you'd get to fight at swordfish wouldn't exactly be the cream of the crop. If they are actually good, they're likely coming to HEMA out of actual interest and not to try and dab on some nerds which inevitably just makes them more HEMA people.
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>>73235
>>73231
Actually there have always been a lot of MOF fencers in the pool stages at SF and other big events. They rarely go through. Me included, was A-rated when I was younger, did pretty well in nationals. Got trashed at SF. It's a different game, there are some applicable skills, but heavier weapons, doubles and afterblows, hit quality and wrestling changes everything.

MOF is focused entirely on offense, it's about touching first. You can't fleche to victory in high level HEMA comps. It'll only get you so far in smaller regional tournaments.

Also wtf is this this bullshit about the average MOF fencer being a top tier athlete. Have you ever been to your local MOF club? You'll get lucky if there's one fit guy there, most are fat neckbeards who were ostracized out of regular sports like soccer or basketball or whatever. as kids. The percentage who go to high level competitions is very low. And if you go to SF you'll see a lot of athleticism and strength from top tier HEMA fencers.
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>>73239
>Also wtf is this this bullshit about the average MOF fencer being a top tier athlete. Have you ever been to your local MOF club?
Anon this is a board for nonparticpants to argue, not to particpate.
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>>73046
>Footy and tennis will give you better prerequisites for HEMA footwork
Reminder that real (non-lawn) tennis was popularized among the nobility as a form of conditioning suitable for improving fencing ability.
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>>73153
Same. As much they seethe about HEMAfags playing musketeers and kniggets now, fencing used to trade hugely on "IRL D'Artagnan" angle (you can even see this in spoff books, like Nadi's On Fencing), and now they really can't anymore because HEMA came and stole their thunder being *obviously* more relevant and demonstrating oly fencing is a totally different animal from Henri IV/Louis XIII rapier. I know a sport fencing club that only gets kids to join because the local HEMA clubs explained their parent that they are 18+ for security reasons. Have to wonder how that club will look like in 8-10+ years when those kids can do HEMA.
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HEMA is gay and for neckbearded losers. Fencing is an elite sport for aristocratic Chads, one of the only sports to feature in every single Olympic games
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>>73334
>trying this hard
Here's your (you)
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>>73334
That's ok, oly fencing will still die while HEMA's growing bigger and bigger because muh deadly longsword is more attractive than car antenna tag to the average guy
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>>73334
Lmao, seethe
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>>72680
Would disagree.
Rapier's are not only slower then longswords, but since they're thrust-only effectively, and are single handed weapons, they're going to be on the disadvantage if the longswordsman knows how to beat a blade.
Source. Personal experience. Foil and the like my club can go pretty ham on because we don't need to worry about the other dude getting hurt, but for longsword we've needed to almost always tone it down to avoid injuring the sparring partner. If you stuck a rapierist and a longswordsman together and told them to fight to the death, the longswordsman's going to have the advantage.
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>>73450
dumb post,
>Rapier's are not only slower then longswords
Who's using them? Swords are not cars. The comparison of a sport fencer using a rapier in the first place is retarded since olympic fencing is based predominantly on the smallsword tradition but assuming we're talking about two dudes familiar with their own weapons, how fast each of them is with it is going to depend entirely on their own athleticism.
>but since they're thrust-only effectively
false
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MloYsf7XII
>and are single handed weapons, they're going to be on the disadvantage if the longswordsman knows how to beat a blade
lmao, sure, engage an experienced rapierists blade. What could go wrong? Its not like thats their whole game. No rapierist can defeat a simple beat.
>Foil and the like my club
Now it all makes sense. You're literally talking about the training weapon for small sword vs longsword, not rapier vs longsword. Check out some dudes who actually fence rapier fighting against longsword, theyre fairly evenly matched.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r7VWIQCHvM
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>>72680
Don't be silly, everyone know it would end in a double death. Leaving everyone else discussing on whose fault it is for not properly defending instead of attacking at the same time. Leading to another duel between another oly fencer and another hemaist. With a double death. And discussion. And so on, forever.
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>>73507
/thread
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>>73487
>AHF sparring
They're a sabre club and they can't even do that well, and in this video they're using unfamiliar weapons, so you have someone who sucks at rapier vs someone who sucks at longsword
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>>73622
First of all, no theyre very clearly not just a saber club but heres another video inr esponse to your "hurr durr doesnt count" retardation.
https://youtu.be/rWzcYXG3oqo
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>>73623
They don't properly practice any style except British sabre shit, and to even say they so that is really charitable. They're widely known as a shitty club
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>>73631
>They're widely known as a shitty club
Yeah by you at the two other people who anonymously talk shit about obscure clubs
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>>73631
Calm down Borislav Krustev, you fat sweaty nerd. Go talk shit about tournament referees on your blog again or something.
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>>73631
>HURR DURR DOESNT COUNT
>gets a video from a different club
>BUT HURR DURR THE OTHER ONE DOESNT COUNT
Seethe, retard. I trust AHF to do rapier more than your retarded club who thinks foils are equivalent.
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>>73631
>British sabre shit
This tells me enough to disregard your opinion straight away.
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>>73631
This generated a lot of seething for some reason, but it's basically true. The AHF is well known because they have a big Youtube presence, not because they're technically adept or post winning scores against tough opponents in tournaments. (In the UK it seems like Schola Gladiatoria basically contains all the really capable fighters, they dominate UK tournaments and seem to do best in internationals as well.) There was a good post about it in one of the first board HEMAgens. If you actually watch some of those numerous videos it becomes evident that they don't spar at a very high or technical/treatise-accurate level.
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>>73450
>comparing fencing to rapier
????? do you really fence or did you just start lmao
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>>73487
>The comparison of a sport fencer using a rapier in the first place is retarded
You and >>73846 clearly didn't read OP. OP didn't state foil, he stated rapier. Which is slower.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MloYsf7XII [Embed]
The advantage of a rapier is it's passive defense and range, being a lengthy one handed weapon. If you're doing his faggy stance bullshit you've moved it away from passive defense and the longswordsman can come in because he's using more muscles to move his similarly lengthy blade faster then you and since it's not a lightsaber, you've lost the ability to hurt him meaningfully with the blade when he's closed in.
> experienced rapierists blad
Nor rapierist. Oly fencer. Who's used to fencing with a particularly thick wire. I watched a guy come from buhurt into fencing and wreck almost everyone because while they were better, they weren't used to going that heavy. Only two people beat him, one for not engaging at all, the other for being bigger and coming from karate.
> training weapon for small sword vs longsword, not rapier vs longsword
OP sail Oly fencers, given a rapier.
Hell, the issue doesn't even come from the sword, it comes from the training and the footwork.
Oly fencers are fast, but light as all hell, because their rules work that way. Same with their footwork. I've fenced for about three years, and I've beaten people who've fenced for two to three times that long, who're far more skilled then me and actually compete in tournaments, by just stepping across the piste and attacking from the widest angle I can.
Fencing is not a martial art. It's a simplified sport that for years played itself as a martial art, but since actual western sword arts are becoming popular again, it's loosing it's rep.
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>>73861
Tl;dr
>>
only way I could see a loss is in sabre as sabre fencers do a lot of kamikaze attacks when gaining priority because they can
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>>72680
Most HEMA rapier instructors I met used to have a oly background and often have respectable trophy cases. Suicide lunges don't work with heavy rapiers and when rapier goes maine gauche things get complicated to the point where you need years of practice to make good use.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcD9OgeUULg

t. 8 years foil & épée





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