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What's your favorite example of shitty martial arts beating more effective styles?
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When a ninja won UFC 3
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>>71947
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VePy7-kPAys
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaLqQrNsvKs
Aikido guy vs MMA guy.
Honestly, you should probably kill yourself if you lose to an Aikido practitioner.
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>>71956
>does nothing but jumping and wheel kicks
>KO in less than 30 seconds
How can mmalets even compete?
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>>71958
I wish I saw any actual aikido moves from the practitioner, he mostly just clinched and kicked the other guy in the head to win.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtQdCuxuWXw
Here's one I posted before of a wing chun practicioner using the style fairly effectively against a kickboxer, the blocks and chain punches were fun to watch
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>>71958
>win using kickboxing and top control ground fighting
>AIKIDO GOOD
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>>71959
By not being timid and passive for one. The dude stayed in his kicking range yhe whole time,never moved forward, and did basically nothing but try to counter punch while way to far away.
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>>71963
My only criticsm of this video is that it seems to be a friendly sparring match and I wonder how much punching full force might affect both fighters behavior here, as a full force cross might dissuade the wing chun guy from moving in so aggressively.

That said Im curious what the black guys training method is since he at least seems competant at defense, footwork and ringcraft whereas most wing chun dudes immediately crumble under any kind of pressure.
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>>71958
I did Aikido for a while when I was in my teens and have won a few street fights using techniques from it.
The most useful Aikido technique I've found is the wave one. So the idea is when someone goes in for a grapple low with too much momentum, you move to the side, grab them by the back of the neck, sort of lead them around in a circle, first moving their head down, then pulling their head up into your other arm putting them in a headlock.
I sort of just adapted this move into, the same thing, sidestep back of neck grab, push down really hard towards the ground so they lose footing then, suddenly pull them up and use my other arm at full force, to coathanger them in the neck. It's actually somewhat of an effective move once you get rid of the spinning flowery dance shit.
Another Aikido move I have no idea what it was called, is something about sort of moving their hands/arms up then down into a throw, it's probably just some Judo throw with dance shit thrown in, instead, I just use the starting part to move their hands up so, their body is exposed then I knee/kick then in the fucking stomach.
Now thinking about it, the most useful Aikido has ever actually been for me, has been in HEMA. Legitimately the sword disarms/parry's actually work and I've won tonnes of matches using them.
Aikido is still for the most part a useless martial art, just do Judo instead instead of Bullshido dance Judo which Aikido mostly is.
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>>71966
Yeah that's a good point, I'm not sure the wing chun strikes would have much power versus a kickboxers. The black guy probably carried the style, but it's still interesting to see the theory behind the style come together so well.
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>>71967
That's interesting that it can be used so well in HEMA, I don't know why aikido didn't just lose the 'flowery' movements and focused on what worked like you did.
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>>71970
>I don't know why aikido didn't just lose the 'flowery' movements and focused on what worked like you did.
O-Sensei was a hippie weirdo trying to get inmer peace out of martial arts, he wasnt interested in fighting.
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>>71967
best part of aikido is it teaches you how to roll without getting hurt etc, the people with the most skill in Aikido are the guys who can throw themselves and land perfectly for their masters and partners
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>>71963
He actually made the chun work by using volume to parry and pressure, then move in behind the punches.
Ate a couple long kicks to the gut and might get blasted on a counter hook but damn.
>>
Pretty much anytime there was a "throwdown" on the old Bullshido forums there was actually a decent chance the "mcdojo TMA artists who don't train with aliveness" would leave the forum regulars making excuses as to why they got punked.
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>>72034
I remember the BJJ guy getting mopped by the shaolin school but nothing else.
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>>71947
The guy posting this was making a reference to the manga Boy on the Run. Unsurprisingly, a thing someone said on /fit/ did not happen in the real world. Capoeira eternally humbled once again.
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>>71947
It's obviously a troll. Capoeira doesn't work in reality.
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>>71964
>>71960
aikido doesnt have moves.
The "techniques" are only there to understand the flow, for those who can understand
You're not supposed to 'get it'
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>>71970
because its for show.
>>71973
not exactly true. He was known as a fighter before he switched teaching styles.
He had taken some intense esoteric buddhism before even being interested in fighting, so he already had the peace he was going to get.
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>>72054
>aikido doesnt have moves.
>therefore anything I say is aikido is aikido
Youd make a good politician.
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>>72063
He's right though. A running gag in Aiki circles is that you're training techniques even though they won't help you "get it", and if you "get it" you won't need techniques anymore because they will be created spontaneously. Basically, the Aiki training method is shit, the skill exists but the training method (technique drills) won't help you gain it.
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>>72096
I'm skeptical of this aikido zen state with spontaneous & brilliant solutions to every grappling problem. Particularly because every other successful grappler emphasizes constant drilling until everything is 2nd nature and you can do it in your sleep. Which is kind of the opposite of 'the specific technique doesn't matter.' It's 'do every technique perfectly until you can't do otherwise.'

End goal is similar I guess. Unconscious mastery. But one method works whereas the other method, with all due respect, sucks shit.
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>>72035
I'd really like to watch this, anyone have the vid?
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>>72136
I don't think a video exists. This is the only account I've ever seen. Unfortunately the site came under new ownership a few years back and a lot of the archives are gone. Or at least really hard to search.
https://encyclopediadramatica.online/Bullshido.net#Gong_Sau_Faggotry

To be fair to bullshido this is the only incident I can recall or find where a TMA school made them eat their words. Every other incident was either a bullshido victory or it was some bullshit parking lot scrap without a clear victor. It sounds like what happened here is that a BJJ blue belt showed up expecting to be royce gracie on some kung fu kids and got washed because they at least knew some striking.
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>>72157
They also got raped by the Aunkai guys iirc.
There was also the infamous Steve Morris challenge in the UK though I'm not sure if the guys that he beat up were actually from the site or just shared the same ideology.

>Legendary UK street fighter does seminar
>Two MMA guy want to test him
>Leave on stretchers
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>>72102
>Particularly because every other successful grappler emphasizes constant drilling until everything is 2nd nature and you can do it in your sleep.
That's the training method, but with principles instead of techniques. A normal competitive athlete just has 2 or 3 good techniques he drills ad nauseum and that's it. This works because a match is a pretty limited environment and you know more or less what will happen. A street fight is very different.
So, instead of, say, drilling double and single legs, you drill the principle "If I reap their legs, they go down", which results in doubles, singles, o soto gari, o uchi gari etc. etc.
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>>72102
>But one method works whereas the other method, with all due respect, sucks shit.
Tell that to Cuban boxers.

Cuban training method:
>Guy attacks, you can defend with methods A, B, C, D
>Now drill and look what comes out for you individually
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>>72164
Yeah obviously you don't follow a flowchart in a fight. But that doesn't change that your time in the dojo is often drilling techniques until they're ingrained in your neurons. It is hugely important to do every single minor detail perfectly in the gym. It'll probably be sloppier in real life.
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>>72163
Like I said, I'm skeptical. I'd like to see at least one of these enlightened aikidoka before I die.
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>>72163
You can't drill a principle, this is just massive cope for the aikido technical corpus being utterly incomplete and full of impractical moves.
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>>71947
That one where Chuck Norris kicks that guy’s ass
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>>72165
You won't ever hit any minor details. In fact, if your technique depends on that, it's a shit technique because fine motor control goes out of the window in a real fight or match under adrenaline.

Learn how correct technique feels and replicate the feeling. That is literally all.
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>>72174
>You can't drill a principle
Of course you can. For example, shooting center of mass is a principle. Shooting into the center of the torso from the front is a technique.
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>>72184
We might be talking about different things. I'm just saying its important to drill every step in the process and not take any shortcuts. Like I said, it'll be sloppier in real life. So do it perfectly in the gym. At least that's how I was taught Judo.
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>>72162
Do you have more on the Steve Morris Challenge?
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>>71967
First technique is iriminage which is a really neat technique, mostly because you actually get control of the neck (instead of the arms like in most the other techniques) and then you can go for a choke instead of the throw.

According to how Ueshiba used to teach, you are supposed to do judo before, at least getting first dan, before being able to make sense of aikido. Starting with aikido seriously isn't how the art developped. Also, Ueshiba was admittedly a very skilled and strong person but a pretty terrible teacher. The classic case of a great individual unable to make people as good as him. You'd have people who were already very skilled or cross training like Mochizuki or Shioda to get results.
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>>71973
>O-Sensei was a hippie weirdo trying to get inmer peace out of martial arts, he wasnt interested in fighting.
Ueshiba was friend with the Sakurakai and the putchist in Japan. One of the general who was basically more right-wing than the Emperor said that he hated having Ueshiba in the room because he made the officers looks like commies!
Even his son said that to include his father on the political axis, you'd have to put the communist at the far-right to be able to place it at the further right. He outright burst into laughter when interviewers asked him about his father's "pacifism".
Ueshiba's pacificism was into forcing people to chose peace because they were unable to harm him. That's a very typical old-school sort of non violence. The whole "learning martial arts so you don't have to use it".
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>>72208
I agree, when I read about Ueshiba it reminded me of what biographical info exists on the men who fought in the Shinpuren rebellion. That sort of guy doesn't really exist anymore. Basically siding with spiritual caste systems and immovable social classes. Even our most right wing nutjobs in the west won't go that far these days.
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>>72208
I had no ide Ueshiba was so based
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>>72162
A couple of "MT+BJJ = Invincible" guys came to a shorin-ryu, a "traditional" non-kyokushin karate style, place expecting to crush cans and left with shiners. They even whined trying to be racist while not sounding racist by saying their opponent was "a stereotypical thug urban dude" and implying that they only lost because the guy was a psycho nigger and not because he was just a better striker.

Apparently the shorin style guys started American kickboxing in the 70s, though, so I guess it makes sense.
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>>72299
It's crazy how long lasting a lot of mystic woowoo bullshit stories are. Even with no proof of their effectiveness, traditional martial arts still tout anecdotes of their style beating tested modern systems. Mental illness shit right here.
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>>71967
I used to do aikido when I was a kid and come to think of it it enabled me to do impromptu throws aikido style twice, though both times it was a weakass opponent.
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>>72301
>One day! A big unnamed meathead asshole jock mma guy came to a humble strip mall karate dojo that also didnt have a name. The big meathead douchebag demanded a challenge match with the small humble asian instructor. The instructor refused, being a peaceful man of a peaceful style and not because he couldnt fight. The smooth brained ape man tried everything he could. He shouted racial slurs and threatened the instructors wife. The enlightened sensei still refused. But when the neaderthal bully insulted the honor of glorious nippon he could no longer refuse. The match stood up from his kneeling position (as he had been the whole time, except for when the power of his enligjtenment would cause him to levitate.) And put the joe rogan lookalike down he could even retaliate. The sensei punched him 3 times without even touching him, imediately knocking him unconcious. When he awoke in the hospital it was none other than that same sensei waiting with him in his room. The meathead, having learned a powerful lesson threw away his gloves and gave up MMA. He began training karate with the instructor who had enlightened him the next day.
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>>72162
aunkai is some crazy shit though
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>>72301
Cope.
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>>72299
>Apparently the shorin style guys started American kickboxing in the 70s
Some big names had a background in it at least. Joe Lewis started American kickboxing, and he began with Shorin-ryu Karate in Okinawa for around 7 months while he was stationed there. He was also Bruce Lee's student for a couple years, and learned boxing with Joey Orbillo. Jim Harrison and Bill Wallace also started learning karate with Shorin-ryu.
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>>72329
Making up fake stories to post on anon forums to prove superiority of your dying art sounds like the cope to me. How does it feel a 140lb high school wrestler would probably slam your entire dojo on the mat?
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>>72333
To be fair, I think his point wasn't that it's superior but that in this case they weren't pushovers. It's just an anecdote and doesn't really prove anything of course. The whole point of the thread is giving examples where practitioners of less effective styles beat more effective ones, so it would be a dumb place to try arguing your traditional style is superior. The inferiority is already implied.
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>>71954
Some interesting stuff in early UFC. Jason DeLucia did "five animals kung fu."
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>>72333
Denying a 1:10 example of an inverted pattern because even a single anecdote threatens your ego is definitely a cope.

>How does it feel a 140lb high school wrestler would probably slam your entire dojo on the mat?
I'm sorry you got embarrassed by a fat chick at your last McGym training session, but projection isn't the way to deal with it.

>>72336
You win the 3-digit IQ prize.
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>>72341
You finished coping and in comes the seething. You just making shit up brother. Try actually training instead of fabricating stories of some sensei you heard of from your brother's friend's coworker where their sensei owned some meathead MMA guy. It's not ego, it's tested fact that we know what works and what doesn't. Learning real martial arts is handwork, shit that McDojos are terrified of. Since we're just making shit up, I'm sorry you lost half your tuition money to Black Tiger Karate where you spent most of your time pretending to get knocked out by a skinny fat 50 year old weeb.
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>>72348
Uh-huh.
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>>72331
Meant to say Lewis got his black belt there after around 7 months, didn't mean to imply that he only practiced it for 7 months. He kept training Shorin-ryu after that a while longer.

Speaking of trivia about old kickboxers, Don Wilson started with Pai-Lum kung fu.
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>>72341
>>72348
>>72355
Nothing wrong with the anecdote by itself, but >>72301 has a point that there's a lot of stories about traditional martial artists beating people without much evidence behind them. Is this something there's sources for, or just a personal anecdote? It's fine as just a story, but less interesting or meaningful if that's all it is. Not that it isn't plausible or anything.
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>>72357
Different goon but these stories give a lot of people in these traditional dojos a lot of false confidence. Here's my own story: I did aikido growing up and thought I could control anyone. Wasn't until I was tossed on my head by the judo club I decided to switch. My sensei was adamant that he could bring any judoka to their knees and talked about all the times he's done so. When I asked if he could demonstrate it was just excuses and "It's not our way". A lot of the other kids there ate his shit up and I can only hope they find out the same way I did instead of getting brutalized on the street.
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>>72358
Yeah, I feel bad for people that buy into excuses like that and waste their time on ineffective stuff. Especially nowadays when there's so much information available.
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>>72357
It's from the bullshido forums circa 2003, which, as was pointed out, wasn't preserved when the site was sold. Yeah, yeah it's real "convenient" that I can't provide a hyperlink but idgaf. I don't even do karate of any style, so I don't have a stake in the game. I just think it's ridiculous that some MMAutists flip their shit and deny it when there's a one in fifty example of something not MMA-testing beating something that is as if their whole worldview falls apart if things aren't absolute. Naturally, that also applies to TMAutists who think if they find one video of Wing Chun beating boxing it overturns the reputations of both systems. It's just dumb and I see it repeated elsewhere outside of martial arts, mostly in politics and even in hard science where it's meant to be controlled against.

>>72358
>goon
Go back, tenbux filth.
>>
>>72358 I came here from the main page. Was interested in the topic and then caught up on the ever-present discussion about Aikido. Dunno this board culture (if there is such at all).
Anyway, some background: I practiced Aikido for about a year and a half, and then once in Japan was privileged enough to see a man's show on the control of one's self.
So. I think there is usually a great, great, giganormous misconception about what Aikido is, and what it is useful for. Yes, you *could* sometimes k.o. an opponent with it: one of my mates in the clases, who worked as a police alongside the teacher (we'll get into him in a moment), told me he had seen him use Aikido grappling tecniques to ensure a criminal would not get away. And the pamphlets selling the clases I saw this year actually sold the idea Aikido is provedly "effective".
But the reality once you start attending is, as the teacher most eloquently put it: "well, what I always say is, it'll be better than if you didn't have Aikido.
So yeah, pragmatically speaking, Aikido is not the ultimate martial art. That's not, I think, why anyone should take this discipline. But I saw the teacher move about to teach us for a year and a half and I can say the way he used his body never stopped mesmerizing me. He was a badass in style, language and humor, and I kinda looked up to him.
Again, I witnessed a similar occurrence in Japan, but elevated to the extreme. Maybe it still is available: Bunraku, in Tokyo, look it up. He showed his swordman skill, and his knowledge of martial arts, and even put on a Noh Oni mask and showed us how deeply unsettling a man with the control of his body could become. It meant the absolute dominion over one's own body, how not to move an inch more than you had decided beforehand. It means, conquering your body, not that of your opponent.
Is that good? What benefits does it bring? Can't say, other than the fact it was beautiful for me to watch.
PD: I stopped because I got tired, btw. Yeah.
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>>72364
Btw, I remember an anecdote I read in a super condescending book of sorts about Bushido that close to his death, Ueshiba kind of had to be carried by his disciples from place to place, or maybe it was only an instance, or whatever. Anyway, his disciples reportedly couldn't lift him up, no matter how they tried, even when they all tried at the same time. They asked O-Sensei what was happening, and he then answered with a simple "Oh, yeah, I had forgotten to separarte heaven and earth back." The next time they found him light as a feather.
True or not, I find it cool.
PD: Now I remember about it, my father used to tell me a full-fledged /x/ worth y story about a martial arts practitioner who came to a... society of sorts he used to belong to. I maw write it down if anyone's interested.
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>>72363
Makes sense. Sucks that old forums like that weren't preserved better. So much of the old internet is lost now. I agree with pretty much everything you wrote there.
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>>72363
You can say it's flipping shit, but unless there's evidence it's just spouting bullshit that people are calling out as bullshit lol
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>>72348
This comment is incredibly gay lol. You know it is unironically true that a lot of the shitty krotty dojos out there have instructors who competed in long pants kickboxing back in the day right? What is far fetched about randoms getting beat by that exactly?
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>>72395
The fact that it didnt happen and there is no proof.

Vids or it didnt happen
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>>72397
If you had said this from the start I would be with you. Instead you just come across as an extremely salty faggot for no good reason.
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>>72365
I'm curious.
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>>72365
>Anyway, his disciples reportedly couldn't lift him up, no matter how they tried, even when they all tried at the same time. They asked O-Sensei what was happening, and he then answered with a simple "Oh, yeah, I had forgotten to separarte heaven and earth back." The next time they found him light as a feather.

I wanted to see if I could still do this trick.
I challenged my roomate to lift me by any means and he couldn't move me.
Looks like I can still do it.

I don't know about the light as a feather thing.
Maybe its because he was a short old man?
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>>72587
followup:
using the story as a formula to apply to my 'heavy body' skill, I was able to appear lighter than normal when my roommate tried lifting me again.
Its hard to do.
This requires further investigation.
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>>72401
Im not the same faggot, faggot. I wrote >>72307 and that is my oy contribution to the thread
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>>72593
you're bragging about that?
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>>72587
>>72590
Its probably a center of gravity trick
Ueshiba had a weird teaching style and it seems like something he would do where he played with his bodyweight and told people to lift him then went "oopsie I forgot to let myself be lifted." A lot of YouTube videos I remember from way back had super light women let themselves be lifted then stand woth their bodyweight away say "haha you cant lift me now." I suspect this is the lesson Ueshiba was trying to teach, that center of balance and position is important.

https://youtu.be/NE7aLSg9e-4
This is a cringe video, I know but itl give you idea.
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>>72595
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>>72596
maybe. It doesn't matter if the explanation is 'true' as much as its 'instrumental'.
One thing I have discovered in all my occult research is that there are many things that are 'untrue' but are highly 'instrumental'.
In many cases, there are difficult tasks that would be unlikely to figure out how to solve purely rationally using only things that are clear and well known. But those difficult tasks become easy with a fanciful task using fuzzy conceptions of the world and imagination.
Walking is an example of something like this.
Subjectively, your will sets in motion the attraction of some aspect of the world by some kind of balancing.
Realistically, there is a fine-tuned and subtle physical chain of feedback mechanisms that use both the nerves and flexibility of the body in ways that science has only just now figured out to any realistic degree of certainty.
Yet people have been walking since ancient times. In fact, if you set it up well, you can get someone to be unable to walk normally by getting them to hyper-focus on the physical sequences of walking.

So if you could understand what I'm implying with all that, possible-to-do and accurate-and-rationally-discoverable often work at odds to each other.

The actual physical mechanics is probably some extremely subtle application of physics like the two principles demonstrated in the video, but it would be cumbersome to teach by that method, since zero conscious physical movement is involved.
Its far easier to teach by something like explaining the spiritual metaphor of uniting heaven and earth and the body will subtly restructure in a way that would be impossible to do consciously.
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>>72606
Shut the fuck up about politics fucking faggot go to /pol/
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>>72208
>basically more right-wing
What does that even mean specifically though?
These days, when somebody says right-wing, they just mean somebody who doesn't want their traditional culture destroyed.
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>>72348
Naw, it pretty much is just ego. The point of style isn't utility and probably never has been. MMA is indicative of modernity, obsession with delusions of usefulness and proving the past wrong. The province of small-souled bug men.
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>>73065
>What does that even mean specifically though?
They were putchist generals that were trying to establish a militaristic regime, no parties, no Emperor in power, nationalism to the max. Then they were people who wanted other's people traditional culture destroyed.
We are talking of Imperial Japan in the thirties, not the woke-scare of the right-wingers of today.
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>>71956
Its always that second spin that gets them. Grated i havent watched much capoeira, but its ALWAYS that fucking spin kick and its ALWAYS that second part that fucks people up. Like fucking Elana from street fighter.
I would think if you know a guy is into that, youd watch out for that spin kick specifically since its always in yt vids. Im surprised how many people get caught with that.
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>>73078
>indicative of modernity, obsession with delusions of usefulness and proving the past wrong
"Embrace tradition, return to beating each other with sticks. Fire bad. Thomas Edison was a witch."
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>>73148
That is definitely capoeira's most legit move. It's basically a spinning heel kick with a shitton of additional commitment. The momentum you build up on the 2nd go around is lethal. A more practical version might look something like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZRvAif8-mk

Still spectacular. I don't think you'll ever see the capoeira version in high level MMA or striking but being proven wrong on that would be awesome.
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>>73137
>no emperor in power
That doesn't sound like Ueshiba at all.
Are you sure you know what you're talking about?
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>>73211
High level MMA is what is called in AI fields "overtrained".
It is optimized for the MMA format beyond realm of general practicality.
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>>73214
Uh huh lol

I'd put money on kamaru usman beating the shit out of any "practical" self defense guru any day of the week.
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>>73214
>>73217
Lol or as bad rutten so elegantly put it "if I can fight with rules what makes you think I can't fight without them?"
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>>73224
You fight how you train. Experiment after experiment proves this.
It is a major criticism of traditional martial arts.
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>>73247
Agreed, you fall back to your training in moments of high stress. But that's mostly in regards to gross motor skills. Footwork, takedown defense, keeping your hands up, etc. Fighters have also proven able to swap to different rulesets with relative ease. MMA guys don't start ground n pounding in open grappling comps and back in the day when we had Pride, UFC guys would quickly acclimate to a setting that let you soccer kick and stomp. Fighters aren't robots that run down an if-then algorithm, they can improvise and adjust. And in da streetz they'll be able to 12-6 elbow the back of your head or knee you in the temple when you turtle up.

You were pretty light on details as far as how you saw MMA as 'impractical' but honestly this style of criticism always seems intensely theoretical. Practically speaking, a decent MMA fighter kicks the shit out of everyone. Practically speaking, eye gouges and nut shots or whatever are lower percentage and less effective than punches & low kicks. If you can't connect to someone's jaw what in the fuck makes you think you'll be able to gouge him? Or whatever other dirty fighting move you have in mind. Rulesets & competitions make for better fighters. You get in more reps, more training, and higher stress testing. If you strip away that style of training you very quickly end up in wing chun 2deadly territory and no one ever learns how to fight.
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>>73252
Wrong. For example, MMA bans headbutts so MMA fighters will never train them, which means they will always be open to headbutts.
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>>73252
>Practically speaking, eye gouges and nut shots or whatever are lower percentage and less effective than punches & low kicks.
MMA logic: Hits to sensitive points are less effective than hits to non-sensitive points.
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>>73263
If your gameplan is eye poke you will lose. A boxer will kick your ass every single time. That simple.

>>73262
An incredibly minor deficiency at best. Headbutts were never a significant factor back in the old days when they were legal. An MMA fighter will still rock your shit even if you are prepared to use a headbutt lol.
>>
>>73252
>fighters trying a new format dont train for the new format.
Ok retard
>>
>>73273
That sure is a statement I didn't make
>>
>>73224
Rutten was having a real CTE moment in this case.
"If I can scuba dive in arctic waters with a thermal wetsuit on, what makes you think I can't naked? Checkmate, betas."
>>
>>73263
>eyes & groin: less than 5% of the body
>trained fighter: good at defending & attacking the other 95%
Gee, I wonder which one will have the better success rate
>>73292
Absolutely brain dead comparison. A more apt one is "if I can compete in tour de France what makes you think I can't casually road bike?"
>>
>>73252
Yeah, this. Eyes pokes and groin shots are effective tools, but obviously a trained fighter will be able to use them more effectively. Can't be your entire gameplan, and just practicing those techniques doesn't make up for huge differences in skill or conditioning. I'd imagine a UFC fighter could target those areas much more effectively than somebody who's practiced those techniques but lacks that level of training and experience.
>>
>>73292
i reckon even now in his retired state rutten could obliterate you, maybe even old and busted Ken shamrock as well judging by how little brain cells you have without being knocked out
>>
>>73297
OK, thicky, it's actually apt because the rules and wetsuit are the sources of protection. You have the ruleset's effect on the fighter inverted.
>>73310
I've got you all beat in brain cells, but you have me beat in chromosomes. Give ya that one.
>>
>>73324
and in the tour de france you're not on roads that are being used publically alongside vehicles and other road users that can easily prove fatal to you
>>
why are MMA fags so fedora?
>>
>>73324
Dude really doubling down on his shite Krav maga "poke eyes, kick balls" strategy. All I gotta say is good luck touching someone's eyes when some nog is bashing your face in & you can't get away because you don't have a sense of footwork or range. A 5'4 Flyweight would literally rape you before you get a chance to touch his nuts.
>>
>>73326
Go run a mile faggot. Your belly is starting to hang over your camo pants.
>>
>>73329
>sick comeback bro, hi five
oh ok. I guess that answers it. lol.
fedora
>>
>>73329
>>73341
MMA guys are such meathead dudebros but the ones with the fedoras are you queers talking about hypothetically touching guys balls if you ever left your house LMAO
This thread is just affliction shirts vs weebs
>>
>>73326
This.
>>
>>72307
based
>>
>>73262
An MMA fighter would be far more effective at using headbutts in a no-rules fight than almost any other style since they could just take you down, sit in closed guard and headbutt you to death slowly, which is what Ken Shamrock did to Royce Gracie in their second fight.
>>
>>73341
Yeah the guys that go to the gym and socialize with people are fedora, big projection there anon.
>>
>>73367
No he wouldn't because he would have never trained them. He wouldn't even think of using them.

Back in Shamrock vs Gracie times, it was Vale Tudo, not MMA.
>>
>>73371
MMA fighters never officially "train" headbutts yet they always seem to accidentally "clash heads". Lotta fighters include cheeky nodders and if it was a no holds barred setting then they'd happily use them especially in the clinch.
>>
>>73371
bro it's pretty common these days to see fighters using their heads to pin parts of the other opponent to the cage or the mat, that's the evolution of the headbutt under a confined ruleset, I mean even in Russia and China where they supposedly use "unified rules" that typically just means no groin strikes, no eye pokes, and no hits to the back of head
>>
>>73324
by taking the rules away, you're simply giving them more chances to effectively damage you, you're only making fighters stronger as you simply can't spar with eye pokes lmao
>>
>>71958
>if you lose to an Aikido practitioner.

Aikido concepts and footwork are pretty solid and contribute to the success of other techniques and styles. The entire concept revolves around not meeting force with force, and uses footwork to off balance your opponents and take advantage of their momentum.

Shitting on Aikido because of the way it's practiced in most places is like shitting on boxing techniques because chicks use it for cardio training at any random strip mall health club.
>>
>>71970
From what I've read and ascertained, Aikido is not supposed to be a "fighting style", but a practice that teaches physical and mental conflict resolution. Rather than use force to deal with force, or anger to deal with anger, you are supposed to avoid the force and anger, extend it, then neutralize it, and this goes for your mental attitude as well as your physical actions. Ueshiba had this whole philosophy that's supposed to be taught with the physical techniques. So while most of the approaches and techniques came from the fighting focused aiki-jitsu, aikido tries to utilize technques to create a harmony with your opponent mentally and physically to resolve aggression.
>>
>>71947
Capoeria's no joke. At least, the combat variant.
It's not used in MMA because it's too telegraphic for an experienced fighter to land, and it requires an even, level, solid base to start off at, which you can't rely on in mma, but it has the greatest muscle conscription, and greatest weight behind each kick, out of any kicking martial arts, beating karate, muai thai and taekwando out via low->high roundhouse kicks which use a full body conscription of muscle, similar to headbutting techniques in lethwei.
If someone gets into a fight with you and starts doing backflips like that, move around while he moves, or you're going to fucking die as soon as your ribs come into his kicking arc.
>>
>>73451
t. American white boy from suburbia
>>
I wanna see this whole thread duke it out Ninja Ron vs Icy Mike style
>>
>>73327
OK retard enjoy all of your honed expertise in footwork and range meaning nothing when an untrained manlet inexpertly swishing a knife takes out your kidneys.
>>
>>73534
>bro your martial art sucks because if you tried to take on an armed killer without a weapon yourself youd totally die
RBSD fags are so tiresome. Guess whos also getting cut in that scenario? Literally almost everyone.
>>
>>73534
>heh you understand how to not trip on your feet and how to control range?
>USELESS
>how will that help you against someone with a knife?
>IT WON'T
>the answer is to eyepoke and crotch kick
>even tho the only way to land these moves is putting myself in range of the blade
>at least I didn't have to go through 15 minute warm up at the boxing gym
>>
>>73399
>From what I've read and ascertained, Aikido is not supposed to be a "fighting style", but a practice that teaches physical and mental conflict resolution
Ueshiba wouldn't accept people straight away in his class, most were at the very least shodan in judo and send straight from the kodokan.
You're supposed to already have good basics of wrestling to be able to make something of aikido in a randori or in a fight. That's one of the big problem of starting with it. Also Ueshiba was admittedly a terrible teacher, fantastic martial artist, but terrible teacher.
>>
>>73213
Ueshiba housed and was friend the Sakurakai, this is widely know, you're free to look at what they were advocating, this is pretty easy to find online. It doesn't mean he was on board with everything they wanted and it didn't end very well quite soon anyway so...

It's mostly about the idea that Ueshiba was a peaceful hippie. He absolutely wasn't, especially not in the 30s. Considering how he kept breaking his partner, not even postwar. Discussion about his "pacificism" (or his lack of thereof) are pretty easy to find too.
>>
>>72363
I have come across that forum in the past and I remember it struck me how they're basically new-atheist proto-redditor types (scepticism tm) trying to debunk everything with the science. Interesting stuff at least.
>>
>>73775
Lol Christopher Hitchens on their twitter. holy fuck how embarrasing that period of my life was.
>>
>>73777
jesus fucking christ, I guess it should have been suspect to beginwith how little a forum about "real"martial arts fought
>>
>>73775
Thats exactly what it was. Bullshido doesn't make a lot of sense without the context of internet atheism and skeptic communities, a subculture that has completely died out. Whoever runs the site now has not gotten the memo and is still trying to keep that shit alive.
>>
>>71947
This greentext is fake it's just the plot of Boys on the Run
>>
>>73367
>no rules
>doesnt allow biting
the absolute state of martialtards
>>
>>71967
have been doing aikido since I was a kid, I'll admit the majority of the techniques are too technical, but the other half are just modded jiujitsu techniques (ueshiba was ex jiujitsu fighter) and work just as well, also my teacher is a taekwondo and muaythai fighter so learn a bunch of cool strikes as well, good for rounding the style out more, especially when people arent giving me enough to work with my aikido (dickhead boxers dancing and feinting thinking there Ali) techniques like the one you mentioned (irimenage) and a few others work very well for low effort grappling
>>
>>73956
"I'll just bite them" he says as he gets his head smashed in from full mount
>>
>friend at bar gets into an argument
>the guy claims hes gonna fuck him up
>friend goes "i wouldnt try, im trained in kintamakeru"
>everyone wuts
>guy pushes it
>friend kicks him in the dick so hard that the guy vomits
>look up what the fuck kintamakeru is
>he literally just put together the japanese words for kick and balls
truly the most powerful streetfight art
>>
>>73956
>>73976
Lol funny y'all mention
https://www.reddit.com/r/fightporn/comments/qoylez/guy_takes_down_and_beats_down_a_bogan_that/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
>>
>>74001
Funny shit. Apparently grabbing dick and balls is also effective. I would never stoop that low but I saw a webm of two army recruits fighting and the black guy grabs the white guys dick and had him singing opera tier high notes
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>>74010
Exactly what Rutten was talking about wrt never fucking with someone who has a dominant position over you. Potentially the guy on top would have just slapped him around, but biting earned that dude -10 IQ points.
>>
>>74037
Well it worked because the other guy didn't want to blast elbows into the back of dick grabbers exposed head.

If he was fighting some stranger on the street there wouldn't be any reservations.
>>
>>74010
Typically what happens to the "I just see red, I fight to kill, MMA is bullshit" crowd. Shit like that is just escalating the level of violence with no guarantee of victory.
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>>73592
The quality of your investigation is "guilt by association". Circumstantial evidence.
Twitter tier bullshit.
>>
>>73535
there was this one self defense vid in the (((you)))tube machine that the madlad grabbed the wrist of the attacker "yer gedin stabad eida wae maai az wea desaida fa yasel wel two" and continued explaining how you should hold on to his wrist for dear life while the knife's inside you "hell bi shocke maib ee run awa"
>>
>>74134
0ops. Wrong reply.
Was meant for
>>72208
>>
This "capoeira doesn't work" is one of the biggest copes I've ever seen. If anything capoeira works more than most martial arts out there. Them niggas literally danced their way out of slavery with this "dance"
>>
>>74176
no, brazil kept slavery for longer than most nations
>>
>>74010
>lol funny y'all mention
>posting a reddit link
go back and stay gone retard
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>>74190
*posts video evidence*
>not gonna watch it bc cringe reddit
we're on 4chan stop acting like you're above watching a video that's on reddit you fuckin nog
>>
>>74134
>>74155
Same person anyway, the point isn't Ueshiba was friend with those people, those people, his own son and putchist generals thought he was absolutely not a pacificst, for the first, more right-wing than them for the second. He was two far in the japanese right-wing to be even on the same mindset as the generals, in fact he was, as another anon pointed out, closer to the samurai extremist of the Edo-era. It's not even guilt by association, everybody knew he was reaaally far away politically.
Absolutely not a hippie, probably a weirdo. This isn't association as I'm not even talking about the sect he was in. The sort of inner peace he was after had zilch to do with any of the cali pot-lovers of the 60s for sure.
>>
>>74292
Nice, I will make her into an NFT
>>
>>74190
What are you gonna do? Bite him?
>>
>be me, fencer for my university's men's epee team
>drunk on a night out with the rest of the team
>end up going back to someone's flat
>we're drinking with their flatmates
>talking about martial arts etc, fighting etc
>they have a fucking mongolian exchange student whose done Bokh wrestling living with them
>immediately start talking about wrestling/MMA/ etc with him
>mention I do fencing
>the mongolian laughs and tells me fencing isn't a martial art
>tell him to put his money where his mouth is
>he agrees, no striking the eyes, groin, etc, tap or say you give up when it's over
>dive in an out with fencing footwork, working his body with southpaw right jabs as he keeps trying to catch me
>eventually he does of course catch me, tries to slam me but somehow I managed to get my legs around his head and and he taps to the choke
>rest of his flat, my team mates, etc looking at us like we're both total retards
fencing didn't exactly win but I sure did
>>
>>74193
>>74310
yeah so back the fuck off retard
>>
>>74372
I'll make you bite the pillow when I take that ass boy
>>
>>74300
Nice NFT to bad I just screenshot it
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etcEKc30q6E

/Thread
>>
>>73777
>>73798
>>73803
Yeah dude, lmao, let's pretend that they weren't 110% correct about aliveness and realism because we wouldn't want to be associated with icky fedoras. Remember to continue LARPing as trad Catholics for the same optical security.
>>
>>74674
Facts bro imagine willingly being retarded to "own the fedoras"
Stupid nogs would eat literal shit if a "fedora" told them they could get sick from it
>>
>>74674
Reminder the hedgehogey, the one dude who would actually go out and fight on video, still managed to get his ass kicked by a group of kung fu autists and mysteriously that video was never posted.
>>
>>74676
>>74674
Cope
>>
>>74895
>Internet buzzword
Wow bro you sure owned them
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>>74911
If you don't like internet terms then maybe you can fuck off
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>>74926
If you don't like people calling you retarded maybe don't be retarded
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>>74929
>If you don't like people calling you retarded maybe don't be retarded
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>>74933
The state of modern discourse
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>>74371
You expect me to believe you slapped on a triangle with no training?
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>>74956
>>
>>74674
>>74676
It was only a comment on their culture not that they're wrong on anything in particular relating to MMA or whatever because I don't know too much about them.
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>>71947
>capoeira
>meme
well, here was that guy's problem. Just because it's flashy (LITERALLY to make it look harmless) doesn't mean it's fake. Polite reminder that for a century or two before it became a "respectable" martial art, it was used for actual streetfighting. Just because most current day capoeirists are into it for the dancelike moves doesn't mean that if one does it seriously can't kick your ass.

>>73398
>Shitting on Aikido because of the way it's practiced in most places is like shitting on boxing techniques because chicks use it for cardio training at any random strip mall health club.
Correct, Anon. Correct.
>>
>>74703
I don't think I've ever seen a Kung Fu guy actually beat anyone up ever
>>
>>71947
Why would you decide to attempt to fight a guy that YOUR girlfriend cheated with ...? Your girlfriend is the only one that deserves black eyes. Good thing everything on the internet is fake
>>
>>74991
The knockout punch was probably totally on accident but crouching tiger, hidden autism did win this one.
https://youtu.be/dUdfvpyPWzM
>>
>>74991
Jason DeLucia was a kung fu guy and not a Sanda one either. He did some kind of bullshit animal style and was a legitimate fighter. Unfortunately his most famous fights are losses. He was featured in one of the OG gracie challenge VHS tapes and Bas got his greatest liver shot KO against him. He had more wins than losses though. He also technically had the very first victory in the UFC as the fighter in an alternate bout.
>>
>>74991
Big Country

It's funny many of the successful TMA guys in MMA do stuff that people would classify as McDojo: Kajukenbo, Shotokan, Kempo, homebrew kung fu...
>>
>>74991
Keith Hackney
>>
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>>75122
>Kajukenbo
>the martial art of getting BLACKED
lmao
>>
>>75122
Kajukenbo always seemed like it was an actual good mixed martial art, especially since the stories about it's inceptions were that a few practicioners from different styles (striking and grappling) were fighting people in Hawaii and tried to focus on what worked. It also looked like they did live sparring but it might differ dojo to dojo.
>>
>>74037
I remember one time in highschool this girl on the softball team told me she could kick my ass even though she was like 5 feet tall and 90 pounds. My friends were egging me on and calling me a pussy, so I accepted her challenge, intending not to hurt her, but then out of nowhere she grabbed my balls and squeezed them so hard I think I was literally coming in and out of consciousness while I was on my feet. Later she told me I was crying and screaming like a little bitch, which I honestly wouldn't know, because all I remember was trying to get the words "stop" out of my mouth, but every time I opened my mouth nothing would come out. My friends literally didn't even try to stop the fight because apparently they thought it was the funniest shit ever, and she said she only stopped when I could physically no longer scream and all that was coming out were gasping heaves.

I didn't even go to school the next day because it was so painful and I was limping everywhere, and I was afraid to go to the hospital because I didn't want anyone to know what happened.
>>
>>75708
Should've raped her
>>
>>75713
>Try to rape her
>Sucks my balls in through vaginal suction
>Squeezes with her vaginal muscles until my gonards pop

No thank you
>>
>>74991
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=milwX0I9TCI&t=66s
>>
>>75708
What a puss, one cold cock to the chin and I gurantee she'd let go.
>>
>>75719
Now I see why bullshit karate styles dominated in America for so long. These people fight like aliens. They act like they're in a movie.
>>
>>75753
Because they seem to fight for sport, not for the ko or anything. It's not an earnest fighting simulation like what boxing was aiming to be.
>>
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>>75753
Back in the 60s/70s, karate was actually legit and was like proto-American kickboxing. Modern kickboxing was developed from karate/muay thai challenge matches in that era.
>>
>>75783
Is that Benny the Jet? He was also a black belt in Judo so he hit the muay thai guy with that hip throw bc he didn't know the ruleset.
>>
>>75786
Thats a Jap not a thai. Benny throws him because the leg kicks were pissing him off iirc
>>
>>75259
>>73398

What a lot of MMA/UFC guys didn't realize is what happened to a lot of TMA is what's happening to BJJ and MT now.

You get a real martial art, that is effective, and it get's really popular. Money hungry assholes start marketing it to lazy/scared people as a "proven method of self defense" and they don't teach it in a realistic environment.

Aikido is a great example, as pointed out earlier: you were supposed to Judo first. Now you get people teaching just Aikido because earlier practitioners were really good and earned the reputation that Aikido is legit.

Same thing with Kajukenbo: it was a pressure tested system developed by actually fighting. Now you get mall sensei's piggy backing off that reputation, teaching weebs "self defense" that doesn't require them to be in shape.

Kung Fu and Karate too: originally it was practiced by the working class that were already fit to begin with. You teach someone that routinely lifts heavy shit how to punch and kick, and no shit they can kick someone's ass that has no training.

Hell Jeet Kune Do too: you look at Dan Inosanto and he advocated for BJJ and MT as far back as the 80s. Now you've got 3rd and 4th generation students that teach JKD as it's own art with an over emphasis on trapping and the silly parts of Filipino Martial Arts.





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