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uuuh aikido hater bros...i think we got too cocky
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kVTCOwCHbxI
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>>56915
Oh wow this one guy spent a long time learning a meme takedown and practices real martial arts outside of aikido where he actually learned how to fight. that means the entirety of aikidos pedagogy isnt retarded anymore.
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>>56915
>posting Dan the Autistic man as evidence for anything
LMAO
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>>56915
>Fat man doing bad BJJ
Aikido works!!
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>>56915
This guy has the slowest transition to armbar I think I've ever seen in my life
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The people who get this triggered by delusional martial arts are even more disappointing than the arts themselves.
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>>57720
>lmao, aikido is retarded
>NOOOO STOOOOP YOURe TRIGGERED
Ok retard
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>>56915
I've always thought Aikido would actually be pretty decent if you took out 90% of the curriculum, pageantry, and teaching approach. Just rebrand it "bouncer-fu" and drill it like wrestling. Looks like this guy has done that.
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>>57773
>aikido is good if its not aikido
Astute observation
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>>56915
Aikido is a nice intermediate approach to dealing with conflict, as you can use standing submissions to secure and resolve conflict without having to punch or kick, or risk going to the ground. It also allows you to reduce the potential damage you do to an opponent, which comes in handy in a litigious society like the U.S..

I've used ikkyo's, sankyo's, nikkyo's, and kote gaishe to resolve conflict without having to actually escalate into punching or kicking or choking somebody out. Without those tools in the kit, I would have had to have resorted to throwing blows, or going to the ground and risking getting stomped by the crowd.

While a lot of aikido technque isn't worth much, it also has some very practical techniques that everyone should have in their kit imo.
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>>57806
Yes, basically. Similar to how Japanese jujujtsu was actually a good foundation to turn into something new. There are some pain compliance moves and wrist and arm manipulation shit I see in aikido that I don't see anywhere else because they aren't very sport practical. But these exact moves would be useful if you need to tard wrangle a drunk guy or insane person. The trouble is you gotta wear a hakama and call some ponytail fat guy sensei and never ever spar to learn them. Aikido can be saved.
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>>56915
Unironically yes. Keep moving goalposts by pretending that techniques don't look similar when applied live even from different disciplines, though. Reminds me of when internet virgins couldn't believe that CWC fucked a prostitute because their own egos depended on his eternal virginity.
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>>57878
>Aikido can be saved
If you have to cut out "90%" of a martial art to "save" it then what exactly are you saving? Youre better off incorporating the useful techniques into a different system. A guy I roll with in bjj for example has a neat wrist lock he uses to escape a guillotine.

As for not having a sporting use, I disagree. Pain compliance is great for escapes and often works on the ususpecring and unprepared to defend, which many people who dont drill these techniques and their escapes are. The only reason we dont see them in sport is because, as you mentioned, it fat pony tail senseis who dont actually know how to fight that drill them and because of that cant make the techniques work.
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>>57958
I'm being tongue in cheek, aikido is kinda shit and what I'm suggesting wouldn't be saving it. More salvaging something from it.

My gripe with bringing some aikido moves into BJJ and Judo is that I don't think anyone will ever train them lol. In both those arts the expectation is that what you train should work against a more or less equally skilled opponent who knows you're coming. I don't think that's the ideal environment for the aikido stuff and so they won't get any attention. Cops and bouncers have the initiative in any given altercation and are dealing with someone who is probably distracted/stupid. They also have an interest in not fucking them up too badly and also not scaring nearby laymen. Who as far as I've seen, freak out anytime a throw is used. Even if it's gentle, because they don't know what that looks like. It's the ideal environment for a standing wristlock or something like that. A BJJ competition is not. Studying the aikido stuff alone might yield fruit to people who work security or maybe work at a mental hospital or something like that. This stuff isn't completely without purpose. Despite being "low percentage."
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It is fair to say that Aikido doesn't have any techniques.
The "techniques" are a heavily cut down aikijujitsu curriculum which in no way emphasized effectiveness of techniques in a fight, but rather are meant to capture a certain "essence" of a skill or concept of awareness.
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>>56915
The issue with aikido is the same with all non contact art. It is supposed only to react or anticipate an attack. Thus the simulated attacks are unrealistic and telegraphed. This major fault kills any usefulness in aikido.
Yes bouncers can use it. If you pay attention you can see that they have years of boxing or other martial artsthat they actually use a base to make aikido work.
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>>59105
as a martial art, it was never intended to be standalone.
The founder of the art only accepted students that were already proficient in something else at first.
I'm not sure he ever accepted the general population himself, but he eventually allowed his instructors to as he changed it to emphasize the spiritual implications of the art.
He lost a lot of his more martial students in the change.
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>>59133
This is not my understanding. True most people of that time had some training through primary and highschool in kendo or judo, but I don't know that Ueshiba or his teacher Takeda Sokkaku, only took students who were proficient.

Nor is there much evidence that his technique changed much over time. We have video of him as a young, or at least middle aged man and his technique isn't much different from what he was doing when he was old and grey. Perhaps a bit more brawny, but that probably has more to do with still being young. This myth seems to originate both with his later students and son, as a way to distinguish him from his teacher, and from earlier students who felt the post war guys were inferior in skill. This was before you could hop on Youtube and look up demos from decades apart. What is true however is that before the war he tended to teach in much smaller groups. After the war he continued to do his own thing, but his son and Tohei were the ones running the Honbu dojo. In fact he continued to give out certificates in Daito ryu, his parent art, even after the war!

You have to realize that technically, aikido is just a variation of daito ryu, which was created in an time where groundwork and dedicated striking arts were rarities in Japan. Yes judo ground work was around but when Kano was still alive there was a bias against it, and karate was nearly unheard of.
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>>59140
This post is just a hodgepodge of talking points and assertions.
It in no way has any substantial relevance to the post it tags.
Good job.
You have access to google.
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>>59290
It takes apart a number of the post's points, particularly that is was not a standalone art and that Ueshiba debloodied it.
> it was never intended to be standalone.
Frankly untrue, at least when it comes to unarmed fighting
> but he eventually allowed his instructors to as he changed it to emphasize the spiritual implications of the art.
I explained that his technique didn't change, though perhaps I should have clarified his message didn't really change much either. He was talking about peace before the war and he was regurgitating imperialist talking points long after. He did both at the same time because in his view a world order centered around the Japanese emperor was peace.

Are you asking for me to cite my assertions? As you said, most of it is available via a few google searches, and yet people keep repeating this popular pseudo-history.
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>>59298
this is where I ask myself
is it worth proving things to someone with no investment or curiosity just to prove that I can prove it?
Isn't this person obviously just trolling for more information based on the most easily available search engine information.
Do I stand to get any thing whatsoever from this conversation?
No.
There is no conceivable benefit.
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>>59299
What exactly is your point?
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>aikido haters
>getting too cocky
No such thing.
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>>56915
Yes aikido exploits area that no other .A do and these area is straight up banned. Small joints manipulation. Obviously having more tools is better, having tools no one really trains against is even better.

Too bad aikido is filled with superficial bullshit. Also training small joints manipulations and using in competitions is very high risk of long lasting injury.
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>>59314
even if its against the rules most major grappling styles have a decent chunk of competitors that do small joint manipulations. its why you see so many grapplers with gnarled and taped up fingers.

Its a skill that just annoys, doesn't really teach major concepts like off balance or timing and hinders and shortens people's careers in the their style. If you say an entire art so focus is on such a small niche and doesn't teach timing, balance off balance and rebalancing its a shit art and style.
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>>59314
When I started adding competition in training, it became clear that the moves would get very dangerous if you managed to pull one off on a resisting partner.
So we stopped using small joint manipulations.
But we still went through the motions.
Somehow, that make the techniques more effective, not less.

Also pain compliance doesn't work.
Don't use it.
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The problem is Aikido is an internal martial art but they don't teach you internal strenght. So what you have is a pussified jujutsu. But Aikido works and it's great if you find a good teacher.
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>>59662
>aikido is good you just have to find someone who teaches my special snowflake version that isnt anything like aikido
Lmao
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>>59669
its like you're saying the chinese knockoff that has flooded the market is more legit than the original luxury watch.

>>59662
Agreed. But people who know a significant portion of the internal part are rare.
A common problem in internal arts.
People only do the calisthenics, don't understand the other stuff.
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>>59669
Its certainly not anything like it today, but their is significant evidence that Ueshiba and several of his students practiced it like that.

That said, I think an internal aikido would be more interesting, but I seriously doubt it would make it more applicable to the modern martial arts scene. Tai Chi is internal but most people in it do not compete in anything, and don't have any great internal skill.
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>>59671
>A common problem in internal arts.
>People only do the calisthenics, don't understand the other stuff.
You're going to explain us how to chiblast a cunt 5 feet away?
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>>59738
you first
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>>59671
>people only do the calisthenics, don't understand the other stuff.
And it's not their fault, I'd argue, because of how those Sinosphere Far East cultures approached martial arts training. Not only something that can only be mastered in a lifetime, but often something where it was pointless to try and explain the subtleties so a student was expected to train for 30 years to figure something out for themselves even if it could have been explained via metaphor on Day 1.

I had a koryu class recently where the teacher started us off with "ki expansion" stuff. Naturally, I wanted to know if this actually helped with techniques or if it was part of the samurai roleplay. In no longer than three minutes, he verbally explained and demonstrated how all of the ki stuff is just a mental tool to help you not overly tense your muscles and over-commit to strikes and blocks in a way that's detrimental. It teaches you how to use your skeletal structure for support and take advantage of your body's elasticity instead of wearing yourself out meeting force on force or wrecking your posture, footing, and long-term joint health with inefficient movement.

Chinese Tai Chi Chuan instructors take eons to explain what YouTube e-celebs like Ramsey Dewey do in a few sentences about how most of their applications are grappling. In aikido, a man with high school wrestling, army boxing, and 80s taekwondo experience explained to me very well in a seminar how to "blend" with an opponent even as they try to resist technique. Meanwhile, O-sensei himself would respond to students who asked, "What is aiki?" by stomping his foot, shaking his head, and going, "I AM AIKI!"
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>>59957
Koryu that have explicit ki teachings are not the norm, today, but those that do have them are quite in depth. Shindo Yoshin Ryu for example, has a series of exercises meant to do t he things you talk about, at the beginner level, but at the higher level they talk about things like redirecting force in their body away from their center of gravity, and being able to take the opponents kuzushi with very small movements.

It is true however that many arts, both Chinese and Japanese, fail to provide day one, explicit instruction on how the exercises work, or their practical applications for grappling, striking or weapons work. Some expect the students to steal the technique though careful observation. Others only offer good explanations to a handful of top students who they trust to carry on the school. Unfortunately this can result in students who can't do the things their teacher can and eventually the skills being lost entirely.

As for Ueshiba, Tohei once said he was too caught up in the Omoto Kyo religion to explain things in practical terms, he put everything in religious metaphors. But we know he tried to teach it, at least to some. There are videos of him doing exercises straight out of Chinese martial arts, and several of his students could do the same tricks at demonstrations that he did. Several of them talked about and even taught various exercises, breathing methods, etc.

Perhaps you didn't intend it, but the description you give of Ueshiba showing "I am Aiki!" sounds like a demonstration of what the Chinese call "fajin" or "explosive power" a combination of relaxation and dynamic tension to create and transmit force very cleanly through the whole body.
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>>59968
>Perhaps you didn't intend it, but the description you give of Ueshiba showing "I am Aiki!" sounds like a demonstration of what the Chinese call "fajin" or "explosive power" a combination of relaxation and dynamic tension to create and transmit force very cleanly through the whole body.

As I gradually uncover the meaning behind some of his more cryptic teachings, It becomes shockingly apparent how direct and literal his explanations are! This is a good example.
So far, everything I've been able to decode has been just extremely clear and direct - at least from the point of view of already understanding it.
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>>56915
Fucking bait thread with one of the most delusional martial artists on the planet and people here are seriously discussing DanTheSchizoMan, Aikido and its worth





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