[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vm / vmg / vr / vrpg / vst / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k / s4s / vip / qa] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / pw / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / vt / wsg / wsr / x / xs] [Settings] [Search] [Mobile] [Home]
Board
Settings Mobile Home
/xs/ - Extreme Sports

[Advertise on 4chan]

Name
Options
Comment
Verification
4chan Pass users can bypass this verification. [Learn More] [Login]
File
  • Please read the Rules and FAQ before posting.
  • There are 112 posters in this thread.

08/21/20New boards added: /vrpg/, /vmg/, /vst/ and /vm/
05/04/17New trial board added: /bant/ - International/Random
10/04/16New board for 4chan Pass users: /vip/ - Very Important Posts
[Hide] [Show All]


[Advertise on 4chan]


File: Naze1940_Erica.jpg (258 KB, 1200x849)
258 KB
258 KB JPG
power of god and anime edition

>What is HEMA?
HEMA stands for Historical European Martial Arts, sometimes also called Historical Fencing.
It's reconstructing how to fight with swords, daggers, polearms and other weapons based on old European fighting treatises

>What does it look like?
Inside the World of Longsword Fighting - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zueF4Mu2uM
Back to the source - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DBmNVHTmNs
Martin Fabian Sparring - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8QlbKfX84k

>Where can I find these treatises?
https://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Main_Page
https://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Category:Weapons

>Where can I find HEMA clubs near me?
https://www.hemaalliance.com/club-finders
https://hroarr.com/train/clubs-gear/club-finder/
https://ifhema.com/ifhema-members/

last thread: >>39923
>>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS8jstBnvTA
Martin Fabian should do more sword&buckler!
>>
>>48072
To keep going from >>48039, wait a few months before going for Progauntlets or Thokks vaporware gloves
>>
>>48081
We have someone in the guild who baked the thokks, will report back once they get them. From what I assume from the pictures they don't look suitable for retard strength tournament longsword.
>>
File: George.png (134 KB, 470x375)
134 KB
134 KB PNG
>>48072
>I.33
>>
>>48081

Based Barbara of Sparring Gloves is still the queen.
>>
>>48083

I have mitten Sparring Gloves for retard strength tournaments and five fingered SG for regular daily life.
>>
>>48080

>Picking a noob as a partner
>Going 80-90% while the noob goes at 20-30%

Quite pathetic and not impressive desu.
>>
Text me back Nicole
>>
This thread talks a lot of crap about people who are strong and can effectively wield a sword.
>>
>>48113
huh?
>>
I could show you all of my gear if you want.
>>
>>48177
please do!
>>
>>48180
First up, this is one of my SPES elbow guards.
>>
Are there any lovely ladies in the thread? I would love to hear your unique perspectives on the HEMA community local or otherwise. :)
>>
>>48218
What the fuck? My browser says 4chan but this is a reddit post.
>>
File: Come get it.png (189 KB, 296x400)
189 KB
189 KB PNG
>>48113
It's not that surprising that this place is full of armchair fencers.
It's easy to chat shit on an obscure board on 4chan, rather than actually leave this place to go fence.
>>
>>48218
If it's a woman and not a "woman."
She's probably taken.
>>
>attaching gender identity to fucking everything like a soft cock
>complaining about anyone wanting to take part in something
>getting pushed into the ground by one of them so you have to chat shit on a basket weaving forum

wew lads
>>
>>48218
Huge
Ejaculation
in Massive
Ass
>>
File: 1618025175548.webm (2.83 MB, 1920x1080)
2.83 MB
2.83 MB WEBM
Is this HEMA?
>>
>>48330
>Is this HEMA?
No, it isn't, for two important reasons:

1) they aren't working from an interpretation of an extant textual source. HEMA only covers fighting techniques or systems which can clearly be sourced to an extant fechtbuch.

2) they're enjoying themselves, not caring about what others think of them, and they're having fun
>>
>>48100
Saint Barbara the Hottie is our lady and saviour of HEMA
>>
>>48207
please keep going
>>
>>48083
>will report back once they get them
See you never, buddy!
>>
>>48081
Isn't this just that one of the plastic toggles holding a piece of elastic in place has snapped in half? Doesn't look like there's any structural damage to the glove and he could fix the vulnerability by just going back to the original-style tied elastic loops.
>>
>>48338
>she
>her
>>
>>48338
Is this legit?
If yes she extremely based
>>
>>48803
>Is this legit?
No, that's one of the burger Hema trannies. He just has a better makeup artist than most.
>>
>>48803
Yes it is.

>>48799
>>48819
Badly retarded.
>>
I am in love with Jane Johnston.
>>
>>48895
>In b4
>she
>her
Look, hema women will never be conventionally attractive. Conventionally attractive women don't have to have any hobbies aside from looking pretty and posting on social media. It's only uggos (women <7 on the hotness scale) who have to take up hobbies in order to appeal to lower quality males. Actually attractive women can just exist and they get all the attention and high quality males that they want.

If you're expecting a hema girl to be attractive, you're goals are entirely wrong.
>>
>>48799
>>48819
>*m*r*c*ns
you culture-less unpeople should be banned eternally from HEMA
>>
>>48899
lmao
>>
File: Egenolff_8.jpg (427 KB, 1792x1013)
427 KB
427 KB JPG
Are dagger, dussack/messer and staff the best weapons to learn for modern application?
>>
File: Hundt.jpg (841 KB, 1909x1163)
841 KB
841 KB JPG
>>48916
Rapier, specifically Hundt is the best
>Use gun
>Throw something and run away
>>
File: 800px-Hundt_096[1].jpg (93 KB, 800x489)
93 KB
93 KB JPG
>>48934
>how to defend against marauding muslims
I agree, Hundt is very relevant for Europe
>>
>>48906
Bro direct your hate towards chink bugs
>>
>>48940
No.
>>
That’s not the most flattering phot of her.
>>
I have only been training longsword for 4 months I could easily beat Jane Johnston in a fight and after I beat her I would ask he to be my girlfriend and she would say yes.
>>
>>48993
>Jane Johnston
who?
>>
>>48895
didn't she won some male tournaments?
>>
>>49027
I think so.
>>
>>49027
she got silver in longsword not long ago against the guys
>>
>>48993
no you couldn't, she beat guys much more well trained than you, with years of experience
>>
>>49027
>she won some male tournaments
American or actual tournaments?
>>
>he trains longsword
>he thinks he's a fencer, swordsman
>he goes to """""""tournaments"""""""
>90% of his strikes are with the blade flat and just torso blows without slashing motion
>>
>>49097
>his feder must be 145cm long and must weight under 1.3kgs, otherwise too heavy
>his tip cap is always badly kept, having a proper cap well taped "messes with leverage"
>he's buying a new pair of longsword sparring gauntlets every month because "he cant feel the blade"
>>handstrikes are lame and dishonorable
>>
>>49097
>>49099
Are you guys saying that Tournaments are bad? Obviously they are but it would be far worse to not go to at least some of them.
Also handstrikes are an interesting topic, I guess there are 2 main types, the ones that happen in the onset and the ones that happen during fighting where the hands where just in the way.
I personally don't like the deliberate handstrikes that happen in the onset but I should have the skill to just react to them with a thrust to the opponents face, if I didn't then good on the other guy for having better timing and distance management.
Then if they happend in the fight by chance then that's completely fine, like I'm doing the retard zverch and get hit in the forearms/hands then that's completely acceptable.
Anyway thanks for reading my blog.
>>
File: GettyImages-1220736928[1].jpg (1.06 MB, 2089x1435)
1.06 MB
1.06 MB JPG
>>49097
>he trains longsword
no
>he thinks he's a fencer, swordsman
fencer yes, but as a hobby
>he goes to """""""tournaments"""""""
Fechtschulen > tournaments
>90% of his strikes are with the blade flat and just torso blows without slashing motion
sorry, not american

>>49099
>his feder must be 145cm long and must weight under 1.3kgs, otherwise too heavy
how about proper weapon specifications?
>his tip cap is always badly kept, having a proper cap well taped "messes with leverage"
>tip caps
do you want to break your opponents neck?
>he's buying a new pair of longsword sparring gauntlets every month because "he cant feel the blade"
mfw no good gloves for the actually fun weapons (e.g. anything non-longsword)
>handstrikes are lame and dishonorable
says literally no source ever
>>
>>49111
What are you quoting?
You're proving my point. I was greentexting the average sigma longsword fencer
>>
>>49102
Handstrikes are important in weapon, for every system that matters and is pragmatic.
A swift well executed strike at a hand ends the fight, no bloodshed, opponent incapacitated, his honor tarnished, no murder guilt for you.
It's a master strike
>>
>>49112
>average sigma longsword fencer
I've never heard of anyone behaving like that, where do you meet these people? (except for here, but 90% of the posters in this thread probably never set foot in a HEMA gym)
>>
>>49027
>>49049


dude why so many girls canbeat guys in torunaments? i mean i don't think it's bad, but this must be the only sport when something like this happens, in every other sport, even olimpic fencing, guys just stomp girls
hema is the only sport were girls win medals all the time and tournaments against guys a lot of times
>>
>>49114
Tour junkies, at tours
Also those are traits of a superficial practice, one might not check all of them but surely everyone does one or two
>>
>>49115
Olympic level is inappropriate for your argument, olympic men are extreme specimens same as women, but olympic women can beat sub olympic athletes easily.
Hema is not nearly at that level of athletic prowess, and also depeneding on speciality or ruling conventions technique makes a lot of the deal so it's natural the results are mixed
>>
Hey, I got a question that interests me.

Is academic fencing known outside of German fraternities? Is it taught somewhere else like e.g. Im the US?

Would it be considered HEMA? There are lots of historical documents and guides. The styles and rules developed over time for safety reasons.

Would already be surprised if someone knows the fuck I'm talking about
>>
>>49204
Longsword is the coolest and most relevant in the modern context.
>>
>>49170
I don't really know about its current day practice, but I seriously doubt that it looks much like its, probably rather short-lived, 19th century practice.

It is known of outside of Germany, but just because people talk about mensur, or academic fencing, it doesn't mean that they are talking about German mensur.

Throughout Europe countries had their own form of academic fencing, but it's very different from its German practice. Students usually carried some form of sword or saber, for example: in Hungary during the 19th century, a saber was part of a law student's formal dress. Students also often attended fencing academies, and students often had duels. This could be, and was, called academic fencing, but it's different form German mensur.

Mensur is also a fencing term, it's the distance between two fencers. I remember an old history teacher of mine telling me about a duel where the distance was set, and the fencers weren't allowed to move from their set positions, but they were allowed to move their bodies. The fencers also wore thick clothes, he called them bandages, and they used sabers with rounded off tips, it's quite possibly the duel between Gárdonyi Géza and Újlaki Antal, but I can't remember. This could be called mensur fencing, but again, it's different from German mensur.


I think most people would say that mensur isn't HEMA, mostly because of the MA part. Mensur is not about martial skill, it is, to put it charitably, an exercise to test courage and build character.
I don't really care about HEMA, and what is or what isn't HEMA, but dueling for the main purpose of getting a cool scar sounds really fucking dumb to me.
>>
I have finally leveled up enough in my club that I get to meet the other fencers. This is exciting.
>>
He only communicates through email, every week he sends me a new meeting location, I’ve met with him for 3 months and only ever gone up to 10% speed when working through things aside from his led solo drills. He says he can’t teach me and fight at the same time. Now he thinks I’m ready to meet the rest of the members
>>
>>49242
>>49240
That club sounds ultra gay
>>
>>49115
>hema is the only sport were girls win medals all the time and tournaments against guys a lot of times
No it isn't, literally have never seen a woman win a major tournament. As for friendly sparring, nerds are fat, weak and greasy, that's why women can beat them.
>>
>>49170
>Is academic fencing known outside of German fraternities?
>Would it be considered HEMA?
No and not really, although it would make sense if it did.

The oly fencing general had some discussion about it actually, but I don't know if /xs/ is archived anywhere so it may just be lost.
>>
>>49102
>Are you guys saying that Tournaments are bad?
Its just cope from non-medalers.
>>
>>49212
>most relevant in the modern context.
What did he mean by this?
>>
>>49281
Seconded. Sounds like some cult shit.
>>
>>49289
>unforskins katana
Heh, nutting personel kid
>>
>>49242
Are you on the turbo autism spectrum anon?
Then again you're into sword swinging so that kind of answers that.
But in what world does this kind of behavior seem ok to you?
I understand that you are excited about doing your new super secret, super special hobby but I'd say there is only about a 10% chance that this guy is actually worth your time, in other sports or hobbies there do exist off the record groups like these but they usually consist of very dedicated and experienced people whom you can join through invitation by other members but in hema it is highly unlikely as it isn't popular or developed enough.
My bet is that this guy watched fight club one too many times and got inspired like a retard.
He could have a legitimate safety concern for you being a psychopath or just overly aggressive with your strikes but in that case you just immediately talk to the person about it.
>>
>>49132
>olympic women can beat sub olympic athletes easily.
Lolno. No genetic woman can beat any real man at any sport, ever. They're just inferior as a gender.
>>
>>48916
Nothing is good for modern application
Just have fun
>>
>>49296
Hannah gabrielles is the current female heavyweight boxing champion. Go challenge her.
>>
File: Mair_dagger_52[1].jpg (359 KB, 1426x1084)
359 KB
359 KB JPG
Holy shit why is dagger so great? It's probably the most fun I ever had at technical training and sparring!
>>
>>49363

It's much more viscerally physical than the other weapons. The others provide a literal and metaphorical distance that dagger just doesn't. More than any other weapon you aren't just "piloting" it you're just *you* with a very, very dangerous attack if you can set it up with the rest of you and that's uniquely awesome the same way spear is a unique experience.
>>
>>49296
dude in this same thread there's evidence of women beating guys at hema tournaments, even taking silver and gold in open longsword
>>
>>49282
>>49296

https://womenofhema.wordpress.com/2018/07/12/jane-johnston-has-arguably-the-most-impressive-comeback-story-of-2018/

https://womenofhema.wordpress.com/2018/07/10/women-claim-five-medals-at-the-victoria-highland-games/

Jane Johnston won silver against guys in longsword and Nicole Smith won gold against guys in rapier
>>
>>49470
>Rapier in burgerland
Doesnt count
Never did
Never will
>>
I’m still waiting on a reply text from Nicole.
>>
>>49480
cope
>>
>>49480
>>Rapier in burgerland
more like HEMA in burgerland doesn't count
she's probably pretty good, but still wouldn't stand a chance against actual HEMAists
>>
I am an American man and I will take you all on. You snap like cornbread beneath me.
>>
>>49498
>cornbread
yeah, you really are american
>>
>>49470
>Nicole Smith won gold against guys in rapier
I've seen this bitch's videos on rapier and if she fences the way she teaches others to this is proof, hard proof that the burger rapier scene is full retard.
>>
!!!ALERT!!!
New Meyer discovered
Images include harness fencing, plus confirmation that Meyer must've owned and copied from Marozzo's Opera Nova
>>
File: Meyerozzo.png (719 KB, 1134x394)
719 KB
719 KB PNG
>>49518
https://bop.unibe.ch/apd/article/view/7728
>>
>>49518
>>49520
Incredibly based, german bolognese is best bolognese!
Also actualy daggers instead of fag rondels, Meyer numba wan
>>
When I say the spar is over, it’s over.
>>
>>49517
there's some videos of her fencing guys on youtube, you can check them out and find for yourself if she's really that bad
>>
>>49620
I really love how nobodies on 4chan really believe they can beat top tier female atheletes despite probably being hobbyists
>>
File: 1391862736630.jpg (411 KB, 597x778)
411 KB
411 KB JPG
>>49282
>>49497
>>49517
>>49620
>>49633

https://youtu.be/5Crwal1ZIdU

here's a vid of nicole beating a guy
>>
>>48072
>anime edition
Why? There’s no good HEMA anime
>>
>>49633
They probably can. Women are the athletic inferiors of all healthy men. The women's Olympic soccer team was beaten by middle school boys. Trannies who never fought a day in their lives just walk in the cage and destroy trained female Mixed Martial Artists. I'm sorry that reality doesn't match your modernist delusions.
>>
>>49696
dude there's videos in this thread showing women beating TRAINED hema guys, record of open tournament were women got silver and gold, no matter how much you wanna argument from imagination, there's empiric proof that women can beat men in hema tournaments
you're the one deluded from reality
>>
>>49705
>there's videos in this thread showing women beating AMERICAN hema guys
a very big difference
>>
>>49714
funny how eurotards think they're more efficient and skillful at everything, just on account of being eurotards
>>
>>49719
amerifat cope
>>
>>48895
I've met her a few times.
>>
>>49719
they actually are, especially northern and eastern european hemaists
>>
>>49520
Cant see this
>>
No need to seethe at each other
What we all want is a unified international federation
We should be friends!
>>
>>49749
>What we all want is a unified international federation
Why would EVERYONE want that? Some want that, especially the tournament fencers.
But 'old-school' HEMAists wouldn't give the slightest fuck about that.
What would I gain from such a federation as a martial artist that sees tournaments as nothing but pressure testing and not a sport competition?
>>
>>49753
Some standards, same worldwide
It's also a safety for beginners so that they dont end up in some crazy larper club, so again, standards.
>>
>>49754
The federation for example can take care of instructing judges properly so that big international competitions can have good judges and increase the consistency of the competition
>>
>>49754
>>49756
Yeah ok, that sounds pretty good!
>>
>>49647
Is that the Nicole that won't text anon back?

>>49696
>Trannies who never fought a day in their lives just walk in the cage and destroy trained female Mixed Martial Artists.
Fallon Fox is the only notable tranny in female MMA and he got his ass kicked by the one actually trained MMA fighter he fought (Ashlee Evans-Smith, who is a top 30 fighter at best in a division with maybe 5 good fighters). None of the other women that Fox beat have a winning record. He might as well have been beating up on soccer moms.
>>
>>49705
>tfw TRAINED
>>
>>49753
>What would I gain from such a federation as a martial artist that sees tournaments as nothing but pressure testing and not a sport competition?
Pooled resources for insurance/seminars/events, standardization for instruction, better means for networking between clubs, authenticity for the member clubs through association of the recognized official federation.

Kendo does something similar and it works well. Your rank (which is more or less an indication of your competency) means the same thing worldwide. Someone who shows up to practice with prior experience and a rank will give the instructor a good idea of where the student is at.
>>
Looking good sis!
>>
>>49793
What rapier is that? Looks bad
>>
>>49714
>let me just move the goalposts real quick
>>
>>49793
Why do *m*r*c*ns and w*m*n ruin everything they touch?
>>
>>49633
If they are a top tier athlete, then they aren't female. QED.
>>
>>49719
We are. Europeans, even low tier ones like the Italians, are inherently better at everything we care to try. Americans are fat failures of a people and country. You've never done anything of real lasting consequence, and your failed state never will. Remember, burger, you are LITERALLY Europe's rejected. Every one of you went to live there because you weren't good enough to live here.
>>
The one on the right is a British man and I love her.
>>
File: e9c.jpg (45 KB, 600x713)
45 KB
45 KB JPG
>>49810
Rent free
>>
>>49753
>a martial artist that sees tournaments as nothing but pressure testing and not a sport competition
What the fuck is this supposed to mean
A martial art can still be pressure tested to filter out what doesn't work while also being a combat sport
>>
>>49647
I have no dog in you guys' little slapfight, but this is a video of two terrible rapier fencers. It honestly doesn't surprise me much because it's absolutely true that Burger HEMA is much lower level when it comes to rapier than Europe. This guy >>49517 is right that her "teaching" videos are also terrible so if she fights according to the principles she presents in those it's no wonder she's shit. However the guy is undeniably also shit, so fair point to you there.

>>49794
It's a standard Danelli.
>>
File: hhhhuhhuhhuhhuhhuhuhu.jpg (18 KB, 400x400)
18 KB
18 KB JPG
Man, HEMA threads sure are salty. I would've thought BJJ would have more hotheads.
>>
>>49882
i'm not well verse in rapier, can you elaborate a bit on why they're shit?
i'm actually really curious on how to spot a good or a bad rapier fencer
>>
>>49895
Take a bunch of nerds resentful at the world and then give them a sport they finally do well in amongst other nerds. Superiority complexes immediatwly form.
>>49903
Literally every video of every fencer on video in these threads is shit because I say so
>>
>>49903
People in these threads have said the AHF guys suck at fencing too yet never elaborate on why. Apparently everyone here is a world class hema fencer youve just never heard of them.
>>
I have nothing important to add to the thread but I wanted to make a post anyway, oh wait I just thought of something.
I'm not an American that is in America and I am dissatisfied with the quality of the groups that I have around me, how can I change that?
One of the solutions might be to start my own club but I don't have the knowledge to properly teach others.
Would it be worth trying to set up an online course with one of the European instructors?
Have them set up a study guide and a lesson plan that I can practice with a person from the nearby guild.
Or I guess a more general question, how much hema related information are people willing to share to others, that way I can ask specific questions that will benefit me, I'd like to avoid forums that have a big American presence as their advice is never any good and is mostly speculation designed to start a "What if" conversation with the original person.
>>
>>49903
Check minks 2019 europeans
Day1 longsword
Day2 rapier
Fencers that got to the end of the tournament are good
>>
>>49875
Of course they can, it's just for me personally that tournaments hold no value except for maximum pressure testing against opponents who want to win no matter the cost
>>
>>49903

The cup is a bit too long (the blade being thin), the pommel is dogshit and the grip is ridunculously long. Yllart and Nico Fuduli make the best spanish rapiers.
>>
>>49903
The most obvious flaw is that they hold their guards extremely low which the Italian masters explicitly tell you not to do (and the Spanish guard is even higher). Since they all fence by refusing the blade, you don't see any of the actual mechanics or technique you'd expect from someone versed in even the basics of Italian rapier, which is all about controlling the center line.

Virtually every thrust is "punched" forward, which is something that at least Fabris calls out as extremely wrong, though I can't remember the term he uses for it off the top of my head. It's clear from how they describe proper thrust that the other masters would also regard this as terrible form, they just don't call it out especially.

Nicole Smith also has a bunch of instruction videos where she talks about "creating a wedge" which isn't a term in Italian fencing and is an action which the masters expressly disapprove of. The ideal is mechanical control without blade contact so your opponent can't feel you out.

Critically, but maybe less obviously, their footwork is absolutely terrible, rolling the back foot on a lunge, bent back leg during thrusts, letting the back leg drift forward as you lunge. In the video Anon linked, Smith doesn't take a proper stance at any single moment of the fight. Something I forget whether they do in that particular video but that you see tons of is burger rapier is fucking up their measure and balance so bad they end up just plain running like tards at each other and calling that a lunge.

>>49910
The AHF guys share some of the above problems, especially the low guard, and for someone who claims to have studied Capo Ferro for a million years Nick Thomas sure doesn't seem to use any of his principles or techniques, but mainly their problems are down to just fencing with rapiers as though they were military sabres, and being generally sluggish and out of shape. They're "not very competent" rather than "raging imbeciles" like burger rapierists are.
>>
>>49962
watching an AHF video I can actually see what you mean. To be fair though I'm guessing based on mannerism that nick is, as I was, probably a former sport fencer because most of the bad shit he does seem to be habits learned from sport. Those being a lazy guard, quick, but light, thrusts, and a dangling arm. That said if he makes it work for him and hes not getting cut to pieces I dont think that makes him a bad fencer. I swear, half this thread is autists who cant fight but care deeply about form over function.
>>
>Apparently everyone here is a world class hema fencer youve just never heard of them.
No, HEMA just has low technical ability overall, and when people suggest they should federalize and establish competition rules (IE, develop framework for better instruction and allow for unbiased judging), everyone screeches about how it's a cardinal sin that is going against HEMA's philosophy and any sort of "sport" element needs to be avoided at all costs.

The majority of people who practice HEMA want to be a very large fish in a very small pond, see >>49907 .
>>
>>49984
You absolute fool. Ask yourself, how many judoka actually like the IJF? A federation would mean death to the real pursuit which is historical recreation. HEMA is a sport secondary to a experimental archeaological study.
>>
>>49985
It's this type of black-and-white thinking that will kill HEMA in the long run.
>>
>>49987
I literally do not see how governance would be of any benefit to HEMA. The common argument is that it will bring "standards" to shit clubs. However, if HEMA alliance in america is any indication, the same faggoty non-particpants people complain about will end up putting the work in to end up in positions of power rather than training and then have a say over everyone else. fuck that noise, and fuck hema alliance too for that matter. Im not celebrating fag month with you.
>>
>>49988
based double dubs of truth
in the end no one is forced to join their local, national or international federation.
you can be a backyard study group and no one can say a fucking thing, there's Judo outside of the IJF for example
>>
>>49983
>To be fair though I'm guessing based on mannerism that nick is, as I was, probably a former sport fencer because most of the bad shit he does seem to be habits learned from sport.
Yeah, I think that's very possible, I don't know anything about his background but it would make sense. Military sabre is infinitely more compatible with sport fencing principles for obvious reasons.

>That said if he makes it work for him and hes not getting cut to pieces I dont think that makes him a bad fencer.
I disagree entirely, but this pretty much cuts to one of the big disagreements in current HEMA, whether the sport or historical aspect is primary, so it's hardly likely that we'll be able to discuss our way to agreement on this one. I see what you're saying, but I can't think that he's much of a historical rapierist if he doesn't do historical rapier – and that goes double for claiming to do Capo Ferro when there's no recognizable element of Capo Ferro in there, of course.

>I swear, half this thread is autists who cant fight but care deeply about form over function.
I actually hate formfags who can't fight too, Jay Maxwell is a typical example. Nevertheless, I don't know about the rest of the thread, but I can certainly fight better than that train wreck in the Smith/Cupp video. It all depends on what you count as competent, I guess, but people ITT were defending Smith, which makes no sense to me.
>>
>>50000
PS: get a load of my fucking numbers
>>
>>49962
thanks anon, that was actually quite informative
>>
>>49984
Longsword can be fully learned easily within 3 years of consistent training. By that point any fit and strong male will trash literally any woman under 5’10 with ease. The tall girls have a hard time keeping up even then and any beginner consistently training for a single year would demolish you personally, anon.
>>
>>49998
There's a saying we have at my office that I will always love

"No one of us is as stupid as all of us"

Which is why we avoid joining "Industry Standards" groups and outright make fun of them when courting clients.

Very little can be gained by giving power or credence to some outside group of control-hungry weirdos and greedy morons
>>
>>49985
You sound like the fags who actually believe that emulating old video game consoles is about pinpoint accurate preservation of the game software rather than convenient piracy for retro niggas.
>>
>>49985
>real pursuit which is historical recreation
Can't be done unless you allow dueling to the death, you fucking LARPer.
>>
>>50036
>no one ever fenced for sport in history
Yeah dude, fencing fellowships were killing their members everyday
>>
>>50033
In this case HEMA is, in large part, about recreating what was lost not about creating something new.
>>
Nobody is replying to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
>>
>>50070
Post something about genuinely enjoying HEMA, and point out that there can be room under the tent for both historical recreationists and sporters, and then go on to say that anyone devoted to scholarship and hard work can make a meaningful contributions to the HEMA community, regardless of what country or continent they're from.

That sort of post, full of positivity and even handedness, is bait of the worst sort and you're guaranteed to get replies.
>>
>>50072
Burger hands wrote this post
>>
>>50072
Except none of that is true. Fuck off back to your R*ddit hugbox.
>>
>>50074
>>50107
>calls his post guranteed replies
>he gets angry replies
good job retards
>>
>>50072
>there can be room under the tent for both historical recreationists and sporters
look at mof and you'll see that there is NO place for both
>>
>>49983
>>50000
Funny thing is that all of the AHF sabre basics videos are pretty purely what Roworth says, but they throw it all away in their freeplay videos.
>>
My teacher kind of said something that really rubbed me the wrong way the other day something almost identical to “if I go down then NO ONE gets to practice HEMA, but let’s face it, everyone else is disposable” he said this 30 minutes after aggressively slapping a complete noob in the arm with a sword to demonstrate why his technique is ineffectual. Now I’m not a pussy or anything but this just seems like a red flag. Anyways sorry to vent.
>>
Please I just want to fight please no more endless Meyer square please no more sword inspections, please no more pontification, please can we just use the swords for once.
>>
>>50160
Sounds like a fag, (see >>49907), start an independent study group just to spite him...or just kick his ass. Whatever works for you homeslice.
>>
>>50161
MEYER SQUARE IS LOVE, MEYER SQUARE IS LIFE. GET ON YOUR KNEES AND KISS FROM ALL ANGLES OF ATTACK.
>>
>>50161
>Meyer square
nice solo drill at home but no place at class except for warm up, wtf are you guys doing???
>>
>>50019
then how do you explain jane johnston winning silver against guys?
and she's not the only one, women beat guys at longsword tournaments all the time
>>
>>50177
>jane johnston
I have no idea who that is. Is it literally just you posting this name over and over. Some waifu bullshit. Biased judging and men going easy probably.

HEMA is very egalitarian as martial arts go. Since the sword and gear soak up all the pain and damage. Unless she's getting strong deep target thrusts it's just sporterized shit anyway.

I've seen it all in tournaments.
>Blue good hit to the head. However Sexy Red clipped the elbow just a beat before. Point red.

Fuck HEMA judging and most of all fuck women.
>>
>>50181
Youtubes helped me out here. She's as tall as the men in her videos and her feder appears to be as long as her whole body so that's got to help.

I have no beef with your eGF and more power to her but your simp faggot who can fuck off.
>>
>>50181
Autism, ladies and gentlemen
>>
>>50183
Better autistic than a simp waifufag. You'd be crying out for my tardwrangler to save your ass if we ever pooled together. I'd have your feet crossed and the sun in your eyes before you could say 'Notice me Jane'.
>>
File: Smokey's Information.png (1.06 MB, 660x645)
1.06 MB
1.06 MB PNG
>>50177
>women beat guys at longsword tournaments all the time
>repeats the claim, still no proof
>>
Im the best sword fighter in shropshire
>>
>>50195
Can't stop the Shrop, I guess.
>>
>>50188
Lol calm down.
>>
>>50183
There's nothing autistic about keeping a bunch of stick-up useless cunts in their place. Every woman is inferior to every man, and the dumb bitches who thinks they can HEMA deserve the rope or a proper raping. No woman can ever do HEMA properly. If they did it properly, they'd be either dead, raped, or both.
>>
>>50261
Who hurt you, son?
>>
>>50189
there's proof in this thread, someone even posted a video of a woman beating a guy
>>
>>50261
>Every woman is inferior to every man

woman beating a guy at wrestling
https://youtu.be/v7CMFSb-kjI
bjj
https://youtu.be/C3vHwFcGhUE
https://youtu.be/BJY_sFuOoXI
https://youtu.be/lE3csRnFPM0
girl taps a marine
https://youtu.be/Q1i1xBt9QKY
mma
https://youtu.be/IDsss4AUmB4
traditional wrestling
https://youtu.be/ihAGBpgx1K4
hema
https://youtu.be/k7bh9RHfOnI
https://youtu.be/5Crwal1ZIdU

here's a bunch of vids of women beating men on different combat sports , i can also find examples of women beating men at soccer, basket, etc
>>
Do any of the masters write about switching from right hand dominant to left hand dominant grip in a fight?
>>
>>50195
>there are fencing and a kendo club in shropshire
doubt.
>>
Can anyone direct me to some modern machete fighting videos?
>>
For the athletic: have you ever had to deal with grudges or spiteful behavior at your club simply for existing?
>>
>>50261
Take your meds
>>
>>50345
There are at least two MOF clubs in Shropshire at least
>>
>>50354
There was an interesting one from an English council estate recently. It was a twitter video so hard to find or share. No skill or anything ofcourse but interesting to see how little immediate effect getting hit had on the fight.

>>50362
Yea but not nearly as much as fatties and neckbeards have to deal with. It was years before I realised how prevalent bullying people out of the club was. Really infuriating.

I was accused of attribute fencing for speed and endurance etc etc. Just take it as a compliment. I'm old and not athletic anymore and fencing just isn't fun any more either. Nor is sex actually. I almost envy antiFitness people who never knew the difference.
>>
>>50267
If they're beating men at anything martial or athletic, then the men they're beating aren't real men. QED
>>
>>50513
based true Scotsman
>>
>>50263
>>50267
>>50404
Why the fuck would you give a troll that obvious replies? Calm your own tweaking.
>>
>>50558
Boredom, mostly. Not enough time to commit to something worthwhile or more fun but just enough time to shit post.
>>
>>50540
Normally I'd agree with you, but not this time. It's true that women beat (((men))) in these things, but the (((men))) they're beating are universally liberals, fatasses, soibois, and Americans.

Thusly, Anon is correct. While it may seem like a No True Scotsman fallacy, in this case, the (((men))) whom women beat aren't real men at all.
>>
>>50426
>but not nearly as much as fatties and neckbeards have to deal with
The difference is that deserve it, whereas fitbros do not.

>>50513
Mixed Hema tournies should operate on Ultimate Surrender rules. Lose the bout, and your opponent gets to do whatever they want with your body. The bonus is that it's historically accurate, and it's in line with why women really do Hema in the first place. It's Penthesilea syndrome. They're just fighting because they want to see who's a tough enough man to beat them and *take* them.
>>
Why so many cargo pants/shorts with random ass shoes even leather dress boots
>>
So apparently, the president of France just got slapped by a guy who has interest in "medieval martial arts", so now HEMA (or well, AMHE) is the new "video games turns you into a violent person" in there.
>>
>>50540
https://youtu.be/ihAGBpgx1K4
here's a Scotsman getting beat by a girl
>>
File: Alphamale.jpg (44 KB, 960x720)
44 KB
44 KB JPG
Happy Pride Month!!!
Face it /hema/ most Fencers of color will be infinitely more successful then you will ever be.

Let

That

Sink

In!
>>
File: jean-louis-michel-2.jpg (65 KB, 540x758)
65 KB
65 KB JPG
>>50670
It's historically true as well.
>>
>>50261
you're coping so hard it's almost funny
https://youtu.be/OEYue-0y5UQ
>>
Going through all of the cardinal cuts feels smoother, but weaker using my right hand as opposed to my dominant left hand.
>>
When average people challenge pro female fighters
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9OpQ9ta5KOQ
>>
I can hardly believe it, but there's actually a HEMA club close to me.

>founded in 2014 as a member of the Medieval European Martial Arts Guild (established 2006), and until 2018 focused on the teachings of German Grandmaster Johannes Liechtenauer. Beginning in Spring 2020, our School teaches the True Fight of the English Master, George Silver.

I'd just been lurking in this thread because the arguing is funny, but now I'm legit interested.
>>
>>50735
They are faggots, Meyer is best, 4 square drill is eternal.
>>
>>50629
>Mixed Hema tournies should operate on Ultimate Surrender rules
Absolutely BASED anon
>>
>>50670
Based, I want to hit fags and trannies as hard as fucking possible with big ass swords
>>
>>50735
>George "big moves are flashy" Silver
>>
Dusack training starts again today, fuck it will be great!
>>
The club I am in is fairly new and hasn’t started sparring yet. I am 100% certain it is going to end in autistic meltdowns.
>>
File: truetimes.gif (2.68 MB, 600x337)
2.68 MB
2.68 MB GIF
>>50735
If you go and they teach you to cut before moving your feet, cause that's true times(like in pic), you should leave immediately.
>>
>>50826
My guy teaches to cut before moving feet.
>>
>>50826
>If you go and they teach you to cut before moving your feet, cause that's true times(like in pic), you should leave immediately.
I don't care about silver, but leading with your weapon and not your body is just good fencing in general. Leading with your body telegraphs that you're starting an attack and leaves you vulnerable to stop hits/attacks on preparation.
>>
> the closer our measure to our opponent, the more valuable fighting in true time becomes. By contrast, the further away our measure becomes, the less valuable a slavish insistence upon true time becomes.
>>
>>50826
Huh? Foot follows sword, always. This is true in the lichtenhauer tradition also. Its true in sport fencing. I'd wager its true in every system because moving your feet first gives away your attack you mongoloid.
>>
>>50778
>As a gentleman, Silver was not a professional fencing teacher (a role mostly played by members of the fencing teachers' guild, the London-based Corporation of Maisters of the Noble Science of Defence), but he was familiar with the fencing schools of the time, and the systems of defence that they taught, and claimed to have achieved a perfect understanding of the use of all weapons

This guy sounds like the 17th century Frank Dux.
>>
>>50651
The cargo pants is just because they have crotch space to move around. Hell, even those are disappearing.
I won't explain the bloody shoes.
>>
>>50901
>The cargo pants is just because they have crotch space to move around
Well I don't need crotch space, so nobody else should either. Cargo pants are ugly and stupid and so are the (((people))) who wear them.
>>
>>50778
>George "Four thousand words to say something that can be said in 3" Silver
>>
>>50826
i think he making a wider angle with the sword in the false time telegraph the move more than the step, which start almost at the same time in both examples
>>
Does anyone use gloves under ths sparring glove mittens? I'm considering it because my hands feel shredded after using them
>>
File: SPES-Pants-4.jpg (98 KB, 375x500)
98 KB
98 KB JPG
>>50651
I think the "cargo pants" you're seeing are these padded fencing breeches. They look a lot like cargo shorts because of the padded inserts, and the cloth looks similar once they've been washed a lot too.
As for the shoes, you get a lot of personal preference - from indoor spots shoes, to olympic fencing shoes, to minimalist shoes, to historical shoes, and of course """""historical""""" shoes.
>>
>>51006
You really should. Mechanix, Rig Lizards, etc. are popular for their puncture resistance in case of an accident.
>>
>>51018
I was looking at a pair of mechanix for airshit anyway so I may get a pair I can use for both
>>
Someone who isn’t me should make a hema oriented meme where it’s the freakish wojak as an american trying to relate to a european who is shielding his family.
>>
File: 1616073912549.jpg (117 KB, 621x688)
117 KB
117 KB JPG
>>51089
Obsessed
>>
>>50985
>Well I don't need crotch space
good, because you will never be a woman
>>
https://youtu.be/GGTk7o88g_o
>>
Who is the living king of HEMA?
>>
>>51153
me
>>
File: the_un_katana.jpg (176 KB, 664x1203)
176 KB
176 KB JPG
>>51153
Shadversity, probably.
>>
>>51155
this guy
>>
>>51155
This is the lad
>>
First thread, no experience in hema but interested.
Just wondering, what's with all the dislike towards Americans? Are there a lot of shitty schools here or something?
>>
>>51195
There is a feeling among Europeans that HEMA in Europe is at a much higher level.

While I think it is probably true that there is a higher level competitive scene, maybe less casual clubs I never bought the idea that American HEMA is particularly poor.
>>
>>51196
Thanks, that explains it. So it's still probably worth it to try and find a club here? Any advice to avoid shit ones?
>>
File: hema_minsk_rapier.jpg (256 KB, 1500x1093)
256 KB
256 KB JPG
>>51195
As an European I'm mostly just memeing, American HEMA is probably a bit worse than European HEMA, but there are fantastic fencers and scholars too just as Europe has shitty clubs, McDojos and snake oil merchants (Roland Warzecha...)
The thing is that northern and eastern Europeans probably are the best HEMAists worldwide though (from a sport perspective at least)
>>
>>51198
>Any advice to avoid shit ones?
If there's cult-like behavior like 'the trainer's interpretation is perfect and flawless' and 'no interaction with other clubs ever' then run as fast and far as you can (sometimes hard to spot from the get-go though)
A radical aversion to sparring and tournaments is a big red flag.
No steel (only snythetic weapons) is often a bad sign too, but not always.
Lots of fat slobs and no hint of discipline or training motivation are also big no-no's

You can look up clubs at https://hemaratings.com/clubs/ and if they have a few fencers that won a few fights it's probably a good club
>>
>>48072
See, I’ve just got one problem with this “HEMA” idea. Now, the recorded rules for golf say you can’t polish the ball unless you’re on the green. But nobody actually plays like that because it’s a pedantic, dumb rule. Here’s the thing, though: no one’s actually written down “this is how normal people play golf”. So how do you know that your medieval duelists didn’t slack on the rules a bit, and what you’re playing really isn’t too accurate to what people actually did? Just a thought from an outsider here.
>>
>>51195
Adding to this as an American. while I dont have exact numbers im fairly positive hema and fencing in general is far more popular in europe than it is in america which creates a smaller talent pool to draw from. even worse, that background in sport fencing helps a lot of hema guys oversees already have an idea of how to fight with a sword when starting their own clubs. a lot of self started clubs in the states have people who dont know what the fuck theyre doing at all.

Also, general athleticism. I dont know if this is true in europe or not but a lot of the people who are attracted to hema in the states are not exactly natural athletes but instead tend to be dnd nerd types and freaks who were never really good at anything else. I know this tends to drive down the talent pool as well, but something that gives me great satisfaction is working with that shy nerdy guy (whether in hema or other martial arts) and seeing them become a genuine ass kicker. warms my soul.
>>
>>51203
>So how do you know that your medieval duelists didn’t slack on the rules a bit, and what you’re playing really isn’t too accurate to what people actually did? Just a thought from an outsider here.
They absolutely did slack in training and in rules, we have other historical sources to confirm this. for example, in "the use of the small sword" l'abbot complains of nobles who take a single fencing lesson and then declare themselves experts of fencing and of the duel. That said, hema is a recontructed art. meaning we are using the manuals to figure out what sword fighting was like then testing it by fencing to see if it works. If it doesnt work you can assume the guy who wrote it down was talking out his ass or our interpretation needs to be reworked. At the end of the day we cant know for sure what medieval swordsmanship was like because we have no direct lineage of fencers to that time period, that doesnt mean what hema has developed into isnt reasonably accurate though.
>>
>>51203
Its in the introduction to many sources that it does not depict ‘common fencing’ but how to dominate it.
>>
>>51196
I will say that it helps that there are much more readily available resources to help HEMA clubs find gear, space, and support here in Europe (especially here in Germany - we get a government stipend to cover costs) than in America. Our stipend covers our space completely, where everyone I've ever spoken with from America is constantly concerned about how to pay for space rental unless someone rich in their club just buys them a space.

Americans always seem to be more concerned about making HEMA financially viable, than actually learning about sword play. That's probably a result of their toxic culture though and since every American club will have that problem, if you're an American it isn't something which should bother you, since you have no alternative anyway.
>>
>>51155
It's him
>>
>>51195
Bong checking in: the Americans are fatter than Euros (we bongs are somewhere inbetween unfortunately) because the US HEMAists seem to come from Game of Thrones and other fanshit mostly whereas Euro HEMAists come from reenactment and martial arts. That's a generalization, obviously, but there's a clear trend.

Also, most of the bitching ITT is about rapier, where the US really is at a terribly lower level. It's more even in longsword IMO, and literally nobody's good at sword and buckler so that evens out too. The Poles are probably turbo mad about American reconstructions of Polish sabre too, which seem to be total rubbish.
>>
>>51239
All polish sabre is rubbish for HEMA because it has zero basis in any historical source besides accounts of people fighting, which can't really convey a system without a lot of experimental archaeology.
>>
Why do you practice HEMA?
>>
>>51272
It's fun
It's relevant to my country's history (part of the HRE)
You get to cut/stab people without actually hurting them
A shit ton of material to choose from
Motivation to stay fit and not be a disappointment to my fellow fit fencers
>>
>>50826

Roland sure is controversial but you never hit after moving, like you never telegraph moves or punches in other martial arts.
>>
>>51276
no, you do it at the same time or at least finish at the same time
>>
File: shadman.png (490 KB, 475x390)
490 KB
490 KB PNG
>>51153
>>
>>51221
>America is constantly concerned about how to pay for space rental
Why not just practice in your teacher's backyard like most historical martial artists? Or a public park if you're a city-fag?
>>
>>48072
I could BTFO anyone here with my katana.
>>
>>51331
Thats fine sometimes but no one wants to do hema in the rain and NO ONES doing hema in the fucking winter up north. Also its nice to have a clean space and mats so you can grapple without getting hurt and without getting mud stains on your gear.
>>
>>51333
Lets see it, trip fag
>>
>>51284
Except thats wrong, you 'tard. Your body follows the momentum of your sword. Have you ever done mof? Its thrust then lunge, thrust then lunge all day long for begginers.
>>
>>51333
whatever half-satan
>>
>>51331
>Or a public park if you're a city-fag?

I have this issue in the UK where I can't always make the club training.

I don't want to do it in a park because people are fucking babies and they will call the police on me.
>>
>>51359
>OI M8, U GOT A LOISCENSE FOR DAT SWORD
>>
>>51369
Memes aside I don't think anyone has ever had issues with the police here from doing HEMA

The public are immensely retarded though
>>
Does your club have a telegram / discord? Do people use it?
>>
Hey how well does other martial arts like kickboxing, boxing translate into hema? Does the footwork translate any good into it?
>>
>>51453
>Hey how well does other martial arts like kickboxing, boxing translate into hema?
The footwork, sense of distance, knowledge of how to work someone into a corner, and creating angles of attack all translate well. In fact, when I was learning longsword I was taught to "punch" outwards with my cut rather than chop.
>>
>>51458
Oh okay that's good to hear, would you say that head-movement could be worked in there too; or is it more of the defense is going to be mainly be your footwork and sword type deal?
>>
>>51461
>would you say that head-movement could be worked in there too; or is it more of the defense is going to be mainly be your footwork and sword type deal?
Occasionally a lean back is used, especially with zornhau (wrath strike) but I dont think ive ever seen anyone bob and weave away from cuts though lol.

https://youtu.be/Kj4Ng6DBfrg
At 40 seconds you can see how he leans to avoid a cut then uses zornhau to counterattack.
>>
>>51461
>>51474

What's being shown is one of the two types of Nachreisen. Essentially, "use distance via a small step or a lean to make your opponent swing and miss, and attack him while he's in the follow-through of his attack.". Someone trying a Nachreisen play is where you're most likely to see the sort of evasion attempts you're describing. Second most likely is someone who is panicked or who has critically lost the initiative, and who is just trying to "dodge". It's generally better and safer to actively engage their blade with your own, once you're in distance, rather than try cute evasive plays.

>In the interest of a complete answer, the second type of Nachreisen is when your opponent makes a preparatory action (ie, pulling back their weapon to "chamber" an attack), and you beat their time and attack into their chambering before they actually launch the attack. While these are two widely disparate techniques, both are considered Nachreisen because both of them involve attacking into the space vacated by the movement of the opponents weapon, or literally, "travelling after" it's movement.
>>
>>51548
The second type is more along the lines of a vorschlag though, it's an attack on prep
>>
>>51548
>does hema
>is a namefag
>is needlessly pedantic
>isnt even right about it either
Shit dude, im sorry to hear about your autism. Nachreisen (following after) is a principle not a specific technique. In otherwords, you can apply the concept of nachreisen with a zornhau in your counterattack. You seem to understand this which begs the question of why you responded like this in the first place. Heres zornhau from a more detailed perspective. Notice how its the exact same movement as shown in the previous video.
https://youtu.be/C2sVz_3v7dw
>>
>>51557
Zorn is a counterattack with opposition in RDL
Meyer KdF has zorn as an independent cut but he's a gay pseudo bolognese fencer so it doesn't matter
>>
>>51557
He's absolutely right. Nachreisen is a concept intended to deal with a Vorschlag (the first way he describes it), or as a way to punish someone who has poor timing mechanics or who has a tell prior to an attack (the second way).

https://www.google.com/amp/s/freelanceacademypress.wordpress.com/2016/09/06/attacking-in-safety-the-vorschlag/amp/

You should probably try reading Ringeck before commenting in a Hema thread. He talks about all that.
>>
>>51559
>he's a gay pseudo bolognese fencer so it doesn't matter
Holy fuck what a retarded take, did a Meyer chad fuck your gf?
>>
Why is HEMA 99% German longsword instead of something good like literally anything else?
>>
>>51562
>Nachreisen is a concept intended to deal with a Vorschlag
Which I didnt disagree with you tard. Maybe you should read a post before responding to it.
>>
>>51564
Name a weapon, then
>>
>>51563
>Meyer
>Chad
>My
>Gf
>>
File: MS_Chart.A.558_047r[1].jpg (2.17 MB, 1267x1688)
2.17 MB
2.17 MB JPG
>>51577
sword+buckler

but honstely, anything would be better
>rapier
>saber
>messer
>dagger
>dussack
>polearms
>sword+lantern
>solo montante kata
>dueling shields
>flag-waving
>cannoneering
>club in a hole vs stone in a sack
>>
>>51564
Lord of the Rings mostly.
>>
>>51564
personally I'm happy with the fact that most retards orbit around longswords so we have less wankers shitting up the messer scene
>>
>>51611
My club does primarily longsword but we have a healthy amount of other stuff going on like Messer, Dussack and staves
>>
>>51564
It's easier to score, the worldwide circuit revolves around the feder sword which is an abomination and a broomstick assentially, also ruleset doesnt help
>>
HEMA general is a thing again? Since when? I missed it so much when it disappeared some years ago
>>
>>51611
How can you shit up something that doesn't exist?
>>
>>51595
>>dueling shields
Ive seen the images but are people actually reconstructing this?
>>
>>51727
>>51595
Oh fuck dude theyre really doing it
https://youtu.be/H1XENGaqrXQ
>>
>>51729
Holy fuck that's fantastic!
Also that much cooler than longsword will ever be
>>
>>51736
you didn't really set a high bar there
>>
>>51632
see? the retards doesn't even know it exists.
>>
>>51752
Just do arming sword as a precursor to sword and buckler, then you can best the shit out of all the I.33 retards
>>
>>51729
MORTAL KOMBAATT!!
>>
>>51768
why would I ever want to interact with either of those people?
>>
>>51272
>...seek to thoroughly understand this art, and to learn to apply a true honorable earnestness, to purge themselves of useless peasants’ brawling, and to be diligent in all manliness, discipline, and breeding, so that when they have truly and fully learnt this art, and lead an honorable life, then they may be thought able to direct others, and particularly the youth, and thereby to be of service.

>… the exercising of weapons puts away aches, griefs, and diseases, it increases strength, and sharpens the wits. It gives a perfect judgement, it expels melancholy, choleric and evil conceits, it keeps a man in breath, perfect health, and long life.

>… It puts him out of fear, and in the wars and places of most danger, it makes him bold, hardy and valiant.
>>
>>51564

It's got a better structure as a system, so it's easier to learn. I personally think Fiore and the less fancy manuals make more sense for an unarmored combat with a longsword, since the weapon is fucking dangerous as fuck if you're not wearing armor.

The german tradition does a lot of stuff relying on the crossguard and schilt of the sword, which is good for fencing but not for actual larp "combat", unlike Fiore that is all blows, cuts and fleeing.
>>
>>51801
>Ringeck is simpler than military sabre and smallsword systems
Yeah nah you're fill of shit
>Fiore that is all blows, cuts, and fleeing
You forgot to mention covers, crossings thrusts, exchanging and breaking thrusts, beats, and close plays
>>
File: segno.jpg (13 KB, 210x240)
13 KB
13 KB JPG
Bolofag here, just joined in on my club's rapier training for the first time.
They taught Destreza basics. Then for sparring, we did a king of the hill-type thing in which half of them switched styles to something more akin to Capoferro.
Initially I just went along with the rapier, but out of sheer curiosity asked if they'd be okay with me trying some bouts with a sidesword instead.
Now, I always thought that my preferred weapon was the cooler, albeit less effective one. I'm not so sure about that any more.
It turns out that a chunkier, but shorter blade seems to work very well. I had more leverage in even the most stupidly disadvantageous binds, I had a far more nimbler weapon in the cut, and my cuts had much more authority. A simple dritto to the head typically just pushed through their parries, and falso beats (which none were familiar with) had outright comical results. It was all just a matter of waiting for them to commit to something, parrying that, and pushing in, in whatever way was most expedient. Beat and cut, bind and thrust, or rush in and do a presa. Eventually they became far more hesitant to attack, so I had to work with provocations (usually "do ineffective, but safe feigned "attack", make them think they can counter, counter the counter"), which worked well enough.
It should be noted that I ended up not fencing in a more "rapierish" manner. Going full passtard with the footwork and throwing lots of cuts yielded the best results.
I don't think this would've worked as well against nimbler opponents, but I guess in this club the sidesworders have the better footwork.
>>
>>51873
Of course you did better with a shorter weapon, George Silver dabs on italian rapiers (which are far too long by the way.)
>>
>>51873
This warmed my heart
>>
>>51874
Well, you have a point
>>
>>51729
>two men flailing about with shields
>reconstruction
but hey, at least they strike a few unnecessary poses at the start
>>
>>51897
What the fuck do you think fighting with shields that fucking big would look like?
>>
>>49647
wow she actually beat the guy!
>>
>>51912
My guess is as good as yours. Looking at crude pictures isn't going to help.
>>
>>51916
spoken like a guy who never solves problems
>>
>>51873
The point of this is worrying
The moment someone with experiences similar to yours steps into an important international rapier tour, they're gonna get bashed
>>
>>51874
>George Silver
literally a butthurt shitter who raged against one of the worst italian rapier masters
>>
>>51873
>Rapierist standing within range of a head cut instead of leading and threatening with the point
>Can't even form a proper hanging parry without a cut blowing through it
Did anyone at least try to to disengage from your beats and thrust in counter time or lead with point in line force to you engage on their terms in the first place?
>>
>>51873
Against a good rapierist I nearly always got fucked by their superior range and quick disengage, I'm not a great sidesword fencer though.
But using a rapier myself I kicked the ass of every longsword fencer in my club and I'm even worse at rapier than at sidesword.
It's incredible how OP this fucking weapon is, at least in an unarmored dueling context
>>
File: NMB2465_76v.jpg (301 KB, 1080x715)
301 KB
301 KB JPG
>>49518
>>49520
transcription when?
I wanna know if there's new dagger stuff or if it's just the same as the 1570
>>
>>52067
>Rapierist standing within range of a head cut instead of leading and threatening with the point
They always threatened with the point and tried to keep it on line. The thing is, a hefty sidesword is as good as it gets at driving a point off line.
>Can't even form a proper hanging parry without a cut blowing through it
Provided you have a proper sidesword and not one of those POS 900g things that don't qualify as actual cut-and-thrust swords, it's pretty much a foregone conclusion. It doesn't help that most HEMA rapiers are on the light side of the scale (fucking lazy IMO).
>Did anyone at least try to to disengage from your beats and thrust in counter time or lead with point in line force to you engage on their terms in the first place?
The thing is, a beat isn't that committed an action, and can be disguised quite easily, especially the falso dritto. You have to practice doing them out of feints, disengages and half-turns, make them as subtle as possible. Don't just sit around in larga guards, that gives your intentions away.

>>52075
>Against a good rapierist I nearly always got fucked by their superior range and quick disengage, I'm not a great sidesword fencer though.
It's all a matter of body mechanics. The rapier instructor had an extremely fast disengage, but if you can do the half turn of the hand properly you can keep up with it. Disengages are ultimately the more complicated action than the defence against them. With a heavier sidesword it's very important to do the half turn with proper body engagement: A tiny turn of the hips can move even heavy swords very quickly.
Much of the matchup is psychological. When a guy with a rapier is poking at you, you will have a natural tendency to want to stay away from that, but that in turn will of course drive him even further from your reach. You have to find the right moment to push in and actually take it, as your weapon's way superior the moment your point can touch his wrist.
>>
File: 2021-06-15_12.13.34.jpg (155 KB, 965x1300)
155 KB
155 KB JPG
>>
>>52073

Its very easy to beat longsword with rapier. Its very easy to beat lonsword with any sword, really. Longsword fencing is a meme. It's a weapon meant to be used with armor.
>>
>>52063
>t. Butthurt italian
Your rapiers are too long bro. Get over it.
>>
>>52141
Hard disagree. Ive never had a problem doingixed weapon sparring against single handed swords with longsword.
>>
File: 1623786344080.png (422 KB, 600x471)
422 KB
422 KB PNG
>>52141
I'm going to hit you
>>
>>52073
it's a weapon designed for duels, in my opininon the best sword ever designed to win a duel
>>
>>52073
>>52105
>>52141
>>52212
i have a question for the hema historians here:
why rapiers wasn't used on wars? why they stick with sables in the battlefield?
>>
>>52213
>why rapiers wasn't used on wars?
they were, just not the late variants
>>
File: 20210616_094543.png (2.25 MB, 1440x1069)
2.25 MB
2.25 MB PNG
>>52213
>why rapiers wasn't used on wars?
They were. As to why they didnt continue to be used its because in battle, as opposed to a duel, a cutting edge is often more useful than a thrusting point because points must be extracted. If youre busy trying to pull your sword out of another mans clavicle you may not be able to defend against is friend coming for revenge.
>>
>>49653
Manga, too bad the magazine it ran in got canned
>>
>>52248
>>
>>52248
>>52249
Sauce me that shit, my knigga
>>
>>52213

Rapiers are a spectrum. Think single handed swords with complex hilts

>Some hilts are less complex
>Some blades are longer
>Some blades are beefier

That's it. Rapiers werent used in war because complex hilts are shit for edc and formations and blades too thin and / long useless against any sort of armor and in formation. There are documented formal complaints from ranks in the Tercios about soldiers carrying rapiers instead of proper swords, and how they're not optimal in battle.

Sabers are lighter, slimmer and simpler to use, on horseback, for example. Look at fencing sabers and their hilts. Those hilts werent used in battle ever for the same reason rapiers werent used in battle.

There are however some beefy as fuck swords with complex hilts used on horseback, and many examples of somewhat complex hilted swords (rings etc..) from the XV century onwards.
>>
>>48072
hey bros, can someone send me the correct proportions to make a wooden sword?
>>
>>52335
What kind of wooden sword is pretty important
>>
>>51625
>Since when?
Since /xs/ was created. One of the first threads up on the new board.
>>
>>52213
Your question is just wrong. Sabres come after rapiers, in most of Europe they didn't overlap. Rapiers of various types were used into the early 18th century as battlefield weapons (e.g. pic related, the Carolean service rapier from the 1680s). The main difference in the Thirty Years' War period (the golden age of the rapier) is that war rapiers would have fatter, shorter blades -- basically more like what we'd call sideswords now, but that distinction didn't actually exist at the time.
>>
>>52374
>Since /xs/ was created.
>implying
>wasnt here during /asp/ glory age
NEWFAG GET OUT REEEEEE
>>
>>52335

Hilt : Blade

> 1:4
> 2:7
> 4:13
> 1:3

All look good. Hilt = pommel + grip + crossguard thickness
>>
>>52386

>>52335

* A wooden longsword
>>
>>52222
Omfg what a load of bullshit lmao
Hello? Spears and lances?
>>
>>52387
>>52386

126cm total
97cm blade from the end of the crossguard
29cm hilt
Pear shaped pommel
>>
>>52386
>>52389
thank you bros
>>
https://regenyei.com/product/talhoffer-type-xva/#blade

Look at this beauty
Too bad the only downside is that you cant grip it comfortably with spes lobstets or othet kinds of heavy sparring gloves
>>
File: walloon2b_184.jpg (23 KB, 610x431)
23 KB
23 KB JPG
>>52375
Carolean rapiers are rapiers in name only. They're really just slightly different Walloon-hilted broadswords.
>>
>>52381
He said "again", tardenheimer. HEMA General is a thing *again* since /xs/ opened.
>>
>>52213
Lots of bullshit answers so far.
The first answer is they were. Sideswords generally were excellent battlefield weapons, and the predecessor of the "true rapier". As the duel-optimised, longer, thinner blades became more and more common, the shorter, cuttier blade types stayed in use, especially for warfare. People at this time referred them as "rapiers" regardless of their blade types.
There's also plenty of evidence that supposedly more duel-optimised rapiers were also used in warfare. It probably wasn't a good idea though, as handiness and cutting power are very desirable for a sword in any sort of group combat scenario.

Eventually, the trend for dueling/courtly weapons in most of Europe steered towards the more formal and less massive smallsword. This in turn probably caused the "war" rapier (or rather, the rapier hilt) to go out of fashion as well. Other sword/hilt types (broadswords, backswords, sabres, etc) had been in use as well this whole time and became more common, though some madmen did use smallswords at war.
Eventually, as militaries got increasingly Hussaboo, sabres (or at least swords that look more sabre-esque) increasingly became the "default" variety of military sword.
>>
>>52388
They still carried swords retard. Im fact, the primary weapon of cavalry during the pike and powder era of warfare wasnt lances it was pistols.
>>
File: e68[1].jpg (184 KB, 665x662)
184 KB
184 KB JPG
AAAHHHHHHH GIVE ME THE FUCKING TRANSCRIPTION OF THE NEW MEYER!!!!
>>
>>52213
>why rapiers wasn't used on wars? why they stick with sables in the battlefield?
Because stabbing people is fine in self defense and duels but takes too much time in war. Compare the Fairbairn knife system which is all about cutting. Thrusting ends your movement, cutting can be done forever. In such a case, instead of controlling the opponent's weapon as in fencing, you close off movement vectors by cutting and moving.

The extreme example for this would be two handed sword fighting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxHaNRO705k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVgDSeybRSQ
>>
>>51873
Destreza was a McDojo
>>
>>52142
>love me 'sord
>love baske'ilts
>'ate the italians (not racis just don' loik 'em
>simple as
>>
>>52521
Why would you want a fake fight manual? Learn from someone who actually knows what they're talking about.
>>
>>52624
>Learn from someone who actually knows what they're talking about.
Like?
>>
>>52626
A sport fencing coach or a kendo 5th Dan, HEMA instructors don't know shit
>>
>>52685
>A sport fencing coach
meh, not into the modern sports weapons.
>or a kendo 5th Dan
not into jap sword fighting, also kendo is purely a sport too, isn't it?

Sport is fine, but I want something more
>>
>>52624
>>52685
This is obviously bait, but what's striking is how burgery bait it is. Here in Euroland, most HEMA people who didn't start in the last five years or so have a background in MOF, kendo, CMA or all of them. Most of our first generation of guys had black belts in armed martial arts or high tier fencing skills before they started HEMA, which was what they'd been looking for the whole time.
>>
>>52686
HEMA is also trained as a sport
>>
>>52702
I'm actually a euro (bong) and it feels like most people's prior experience here boils down to "I did karate/tkd/MOF when I was young" meaning their teens, and now they're in their mid thirties or fourties and think fencing is about REAL DEADLY KILLING WITH SHARP SWORDS

I'm visiting a jukendo school soon because I'm sick of hearing people saying you can't spar with spears because they knock each other's teeth out by hitting masks because restricting the target area to exclude face thrusts would be "too sporty" or some equally lame LARP bullshit excuse
>>
>>52703
Not exclusively
>>
>>52705
The people who don't train HEMA as a sport have never seen real life violence ever and are equivalent to krav maga/aikido shitters.
>>
>>52762
Hard to understand what psychological need is fulfilled by you seething about it ITT.
>>
>>52702
American here, my coach fenced sport saber for 20 years.
>>
>>52704
>I'm actually a euro (bong) and it feels like most people's prior experience here boils down to "I did karate/tkd/MOF when I was young" meaning their teens, and now they're in their mid thirties or fourties and think fencing is about REAL DEADLY KILLING WITH SHARP SWORDS
I literally train judo, kickboxing and hema side by side
>'m visiting a jukendo school soon because I'm sick of hearing people saying you can't spar with spears because they knock each other's teeth out by hitting masks because restricting the target area to exclude face thrusts would be "too sporty" or some equally lame LARP bullshit excuse
ive literally never heard this
>>52774
kek, seriously.
>>
>>52704
as one aside now that I thought of it where the fuck did you even find a jukendo club outside of japan
>>
>>52785
>I literally train judo, kickboxing and hema side by side
Most people don't and it really shows
Getting hit by a sword is fine for most people but suddenly kicks and grappling and excessive violence
HEMA's biggest problem is that is has no standards for training for things like footwork and body awareness that other martial arts give you, so people who only do HEMA are largely stuck being shit
>>
>>52839
>suddenly kicks and grappling and excessive violence
Literally no one at my clubs thinks this but I will say the one guy who throws kicks often is a fucking autistic retard who gets mad when hes losing and I intentionally kick his ass everytime he does it. I on the other hand got nicknamed "grabby stabby" at my club because everyone knows theyre getting grapple fucked when I come around.
>HEMA's biggest problem is that is has no standards for training for things like footwork and body awareness that other martial arts give you, so people who only do HEMA are largely stuck being shit
Agreed, however it should stay that way. The primary goal of HEMA should always be recreation of historical martial arts. We have no direct lineage to tell us what is and isnt a proper interpretation so preople should be allowed to get as silly with it as need be.
>>
Every club sooner or later started doing something again, except mine. Big sad
>>
>>52851
Then go to a different club. What are you waiting for? Corona is a big gay meme anyways.
>>
>>52855
I would have gone to a different club even before corona, if there was any nearby
>>
>>52686
>not into jap sword fighting, also kendo is purely a sport too, isn't it?
Not necessarily. Kendo is both a martial art and a sport, and it does a better job at balancing both aspects than competitive HEMA because it has both the competitive pedigree and the lineage with it; whereas HEMA isn't very organized with the former and lacks the latter.

If you're learning german longsword, doing Kendo would benefit you greatly. You'll learn the "soft skills" of swordsmanship that are transferable such as body coordination, footwork, learning distance, learning opportunities, and learning the theory behind fighting for center/fighting off center.
>>
>>52866
>longsword
nope, stopped that years ago.
Mostly into german dagger, dussack/messer and sidesword for around 5 years now
>>
>>50048

>>recreating
>>creating something new

These are effectively the same thing, you can't resurrect dead art forms without allowing for growth and development.
>>
>>52915
>These are effectively the same thing,
Except theyre not retard. if they were we wouldnt use manuals
>>
>>52849
>We have no direct lineage to tell us what is and isnt a proper interpretation so preople should be allowed to get as silly with it as need be.
That doesn't mean bad interpretations don't exist, look at the state of I.33 sword rubbers or people randomly mixing early KdF with Fiore and Meyer for longsword.
Staying "this way" just because it's our own brand of silly is pretty retarded, especially when the reasons most people reject and shit in kendo/MOF are because people think the rules and conventions of either sport are silly and not martial.
People should embrace good habits and training methods from other sports and martial arts and incorporate them into HEMA, it doesn't make it less historical or unique.
>>
>>52919

Except they are you retard.
Manuals give insight into historical usage and the reality of historical weapons as weapons for duelling, for war, or even simple entertainment.

But when it comes to sparring in the modern time, people stick with what works for duelling in full body protective gear.

Eventually, modern sabre/longsword/sword&board fencing will be sufficiently different to the manuals that there is little to no overlap.
And that's a good thing, letting things develop is what lets them survive and remain interesting for both participants and on-lookers.
>>
>>53072
Lmao get a load of this guy thinking what worked for medieval people somehow isnt going to keep working for modern people as if we have totally different anatomy. Seeth, fag.
>>
>>53109
But what worked best for historical people may not work best for winning modern tournaments with modern gear and rule sets and judging where it doesn't matter if you take a hit as long as you don't do so in the same tempo as your opponent.

That's the important thing. Winning tournaments is why HEMA exists. Any other concern is secondary.
>>
>>53118
>this bait again
>>
>>53127
It's not bait though.
>>
>>53118
>Winning tournaments is why HEMA exists. Any other concern is secondary.
How long until we finally get modern swordfighting so the sportfags finally fuck off?
HEMA will never be just a sport and just about winning tournaments
>>
>That's the important thing. Winning tournaments is why HEMA exists. Any other concern is secondary.

You opinion is retarded so I don't care about replying to you, I just want to state my opinion and have others argue about it.

HEMA Tournaments have been going on for a long time and they haven't caused anything good to happend to HEMA.
There aren't more fighters that can achieve a wider variety of techniques like disarms or wrestling or reverse griping.
Tournaments didn't increase the popularity of hema nor do they showcase the skill in a good light.
Tournaments didn't create a demand for safer, better and cheaper equipment.

Tournamnet hema will have all the same problems that other sportesized martial arts have, people will try to abuse the rules as much as they can to their advantage.
The only way I can see HEMA tournaments become watchable is if they stop being tournaments and more like skill showcases or have a very limited pool of fighters who actually care about history more then winning.

I can see now why hema used to be done by royalties.
>>
>>53187
>How long until we finally get modern swordfighting
It's already happening in some places
>>
>>53208
Good, let the longsword (and other weapons) sport fencers do their unified rules and sport tournaments thing and let the HEMAists do their reconstruction and sparring thing.
Both will eventually go to shit anyways.
>>
This was an awesome podcast. Lots of interesting information
>>
>>53230
sum it up in 7 sentences or less





Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.