It’s basically as fake as the stuff at /pw/ since you just throw yourself up in the air for sensei.
Depends what your goal isMaybe people just want to do it for fun and exerciseI'm kind of a badass grappler and I've been taken down with a wrist lock live with full resistance before so it's not total fiction. But maybe they overestimate their abilities because they dont practice against resistance ever
>>4414Systema and Krav Maga are worse, ninjitsu for guys who wear camo pants.Aikido is effective if you're already a very skilled Judoka and you want to learn how to take down untrained nobodies in fancy ways without hurting them. Not a style anyone should train in isolation though, and 90% of its practitioners are full of shit.
>>4414not all of it. the theory of making your opponent use their own body to your advantage isn't necessarily NOT TRUE. yes it even works in real fights. the issue is using this ONE asset as your main method of fighting. a fight in its entirety is about opportunism. hypothetically if you can use someones own weight to get them on the floor, and yourself off of it then no it's not a meme, but if you're suggest "is akido the biggest meme because you can't use it with every fight?" then yeah sure, but not really.
The five biggest fraud according to bullshido5) Krav Maga4) Systema 3) Ninjitsu2) Akido1) Wing ChunAlso any martial arts is useless if there's no "aliveness", an Akido practitioner can KO a BJJ if that practitioner did not practice or spar with a live opponent.
>>4721I must say I think Wing Chun is slept on. Although a lot of it is indeed bullshit Tony Ferguson, and Anderson Silva would bust that shit out on the regular. Aikido on the other is complete bullshit and has never been used on someone who even had a vague idea of what they were doing.
>>4446Is Krav Maga really that bad? I had to wrestle off someone who practiced it and he nearly beat me for my starter position. The match went to double overtime, and the next week he went and took the weight-class above me.
>>4414Judo delivers on aikido's promises better than aikido ever will.
>>4414Oh look, it's this thread again. Let's all bitch and gripe about a bunch of styles that we've never personally tried and yet somehow have the authority and audacity to say they're fake. Let's completely ignore that the effectiveness of anything taught is primarily affected by who is doing the teaching. Let's wildly claim that various styles are "bullshido" even if they have been extensively tested and have significant historical presence.>>4721Give me 1 good reason why I should trust anyone here or there.God damn I hate these fucking threads. Pointless larp bullshit.
>>4414Who cares. Not every art is made for 100% raw effectiveness. Do you even practise a martial art?
Don't mind me, just naking a 4-digit post
>>4834That's exactly my fucking point dude. Aikido is a legit art with lots of testing and historical relevance. Then some fag like Seagal comes along and now it's bullshit.Krav-Maga is a legit combat form, but a couple of retards try to invent some bullshit pistol slap disarm and now it's bullshit.Every style has b.s. potential. If that's what you choose to focus on, you're the problem.
>>4414this one takes the cake
>>4826>seethingIt's not like these are conspiracy theories or some shit. It's pretty obvious what works and what doesn't. Sure there are other benefits of training styles but if an art/gym/dojo markets itself as "self defense" and practically none of that shit works that's incredibly fucked up. If you train these styles for self defense they will fail you when you need them most, which is borderline criminal and extremely dangerous. These style give people false confidence that they can actually defend themselves. You don't have to train these styles to know they're bullshit you just have to spar with some of them, which is exactly what people have done.
>>4851Bullshit. You mean that one fucking chink in chinkland who goes around targeting the biggest bullshitters he can find? Oh yes that's such a fair comparison. That dudes exhibitions are as set up as a Mayweather bout.There are good practitioners and bad ones, if you only ever go around challenging the loudest McDojo, then that's all you'll ever get.
>>4414does anyone have that video of an old man who was an Aikido teacher (I'm guessing it was aikido), and he's fighting with a regular guy who bet that he could beat his ass, and the old man was shocked when he got punched in the face?
>>4851>>4879To continue my point>>4721Look at this... 5 of what could be considered some of the most popular martial arts in the world are bullshido. Even though all the systems listed have had extensive testing and massive historical relevance. Meaning they were actually used in war. So why are they bullshido? Cause some faggy keyboard warrior cherry picked some stupid shit online, that's why.
>>4886>>4879Well for starters I would say I don't think Wing Chun or Jujitsu should be on that list as certain Wing Chun techniques such as hand trapping have been shown to be very legitimate, and work at the highest level. Aikido im told is very useful for what it was originally purposed for, which was defending against an armed attacker with a sword.But even then many traditional martial arts are just not as effective as they claim to be. Just go out and actually spar with different styles and see how well you do. I also have no idea who this chink guy is you're talking about. You don't need to watch a video of these things being tried out you can just go see for yourself. Im a wrestler who thought BJJ was bullshit. So I rolled with a guy and got guillotined. I thought Judo was hype so I went and grappled with a couple of Judoka. These are things that are real easy to just go out and try which is what people have been doing for decades at this point. You don't have to take my word for it anon. Just go do it.
>>4929I mean most open mats sessions at gyms are 100% free. Literally just walk in and start sparring.
>>4731Maybe you fought a KM guy who happens to be a great wrestler. Or his KM school happens to also be a top wrestling gym, who knows regarding that guy.The average KM school teaches total fantasy though. Gun and knife disarms, multiple opponents, all kinds of vastly unequal scenarios taught mostly through compliant drills. There have been attempts to rehabilitate KM but the foundation is built on bullshit and hype. The real KM is not any different from MCMAP, a crash course taught to infantry so that they might not be totally helpless when disarmed. But nothing short of years on a special forces team will teach you to be John Wick, and KM specializes in selling civilians that fantasy.
>>4934Is this true? I may have found a new hobby?Dont they care about getting dangerous spazzes changing the rules on people mid session or something?
>>4934I've tried this before.You're just posturing, you liar.
>>5308Did you look at the gym schedule online you dumb fuck? It's 100% a thing that any credible gym has available to the public it's just t certain times.>>5284I mean they might get butt hurt but who cares it's not your gym
>>5308It took me all of 10 seconds to find a gym that has open mats on their schedule. Notice how they have Open mats for members and just regular Open mats on their page.https://www.buckheadjj.com/class-schedule
>>5284Most strangers who show up to an open mat are courteous. Truly violent shitheads who want to hurt people have other outlets. The type that want to show up to a dojo and pull that shit have obvious warning signs like Zelenoff.
>>5368Thats just bjj though. Not sparring.Its a technical exercise, but fights stand.
>>5364I'll check again. It sounds pretty rad.
>>4414It is and it isn't. Pure aikido is a bit of a meme (too much fluff), but it has parts that actually work. There is a thing called Keijutsukai which looks goofy AF but it's basically boiled down aikido suitable for self defece. Full "martial arts" version is a nice way to gain full body development tho it you just want a healthy hobby.
>>4721That list is BS tho, why? Because there's no Chi Gong (or however was that spelled) there. Krav maga and systema aren't martial arts even, they were never intended as such so it's kinda retarded to put them in. Bunch of creeps go train those hoping to become some action hero type in no time and they don't know those were created as a means to give an ARMED person a chance to defend from being jumped (you can't do much with a rifle when someone's on top of you already), back off and shoot the attacker.
>>4730We used to rent out space to some krav maga guys on the weekends, small group would come and do their thing in the corner while we trainedThe person teaching our class at the time was an ibjjf worlds winner at brown belt and a pan am winner at black beltAnd I overhear these chucklefucks in the corner with their dumpy middle aged instructor looking on snickering about how everything we're doing is bullshitWe will had a good laugh about it at their expense afterwards when we told him who the guy hes calling out is
>>5662Shoulda fucking fought them. I would be so disgusted if some Krav Maga fucks came to our wrestling practice snickering and shit. Why didn't you guys ask them to prove it?
>>5662Fuck it theres more to the story, I didnt want to tldr but I'll tell itSo the technique in question was if someone is standing over you it's to sweep them and end up in top positionSo the putz in question was telling his students its really impractical and wouldn't work in real lifeSo instructor calls him to put his money where his mouth is and challenged him to stop it"We are going to do this 10 times, I'm going to attack your left leg every time, if you manage to stop me just once I'll admit you're right" So it beganGrabs the left leg, bamOk againGrabs the leg, bamAgainGrabs the leg, bamCome on, againBy this time the other guy is already huffing and puffing from being plopped down and having to stand upAnd it ends with the jiujitsu instructor saying dont doubt my abilities again
Nah. Biggest fraud is McDojo teaching some home-brew Tae Bo derivative that the guy learned by jumping off his roof onto a trampoline.Aikido is real enough, but most people won't ever pick it up properly, and it's going to take like two to (more commonly) four years of regular practice to even hope to apply Aikido effectively (as in, not with brute strength but dynamically). Way back when it would only be taught to people with black belts from elsewhere for this reason. And if you're outside of the big cities in the US, chances are your teacher isn't gonna be a 6th or 7th dan with personal connections to some 9th dan in Japan who was directly taught by O-Sensei.Where Aikido does top the charts is the amount of haters. Generally these are people who heard it's difficult and super awesome, tried it, and failed. That's OK, it's not for everyone, but the amount of butthurt it generates is truly awesome.
>>4721>NinjitsuI thought this was a made up meme
>>5672Based Jujitsu chads shutting down the Mcdodjo's
>>5674there is no skill hiearchy in modern aikido.It is all sempai/kohai. Judo is at least minority sempai/kohai.In an environment where there is no evolution towards skill, skill will degenerate. Most first gen students didn't learn how to apply it. Second gen students that can are rare indeed.
>>5693It kind of is, modern ninjitsu is a style called Bujinkan or something like that. Its founder, Hatsumi, is some kind of skilled grappler but he also appears to be a bullshit artist who has forged various ninja scrolls to promote his own style. It's all very murky and you probably need to be able to read japanese to learn the real truth.
>>5717I like hatsumi though. Hes a weird guy. Very creative.
>>4414Slap Fu or any other mcdojo art is far worsehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRosPMyotj4
It’s tai chi.- Wu
>>5631Could you recomend some videos of Keijutsukai in spars?
Hey, look at all these losers who think they're tough guys.Let me tell you something: you're no tougher than anyone else.If anything, you're weaker than the average loser.You might be able to take down a few bad guys, but ultimately you're still gonna get killed.And when you die, you won't go to heaven or hell; you'll just wind up dead.That's right, you're not special. Everyone dies eventually.What makes you different from everyone else is that you refuse to accept your inevitable demise.You believe that you can survive anything. That's why you're alive today, isn't it?Well, maybe not entirely true...Lucky for you, I happen to be a very skilled fighter.In fact, I could easily kill you right now.Don't try to run, though. If you did, you wouldn't be able to outrun me anyway.
>>6332pacing 4/5insight 2/5readability 5/5meme worthy 1/5evaluation:keep the writing up and you might produce a viable copypasta someday. Good work, but better luck next time.
>>4885Do you mean this one, with the no touch chi guy?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr0AbiM3kMg
>>4845It's not just seagal. It's a whole bunch of people, and many of the original students swallowing the gentle pill. Only Nishio and few others kept striking in their teaching, and talked about having more than just calmness and zen to fight someone. American aikido, and the big aikido stuff in Japan are all gentle gentle wishy washy stuff. You want to learn aikido and have it be useful? Learn boxing and bjj and Nishio aikido. At that point you're a good boxer and grappler and you might land an actual aikido technique once in your life.
>>6245Not really, it's a niche AF thing, i heard about it through people and IRL damn thing is pretty effective as long as your goal is to subdues some aggresive idiot, but it's not some shaolin stuff. Visually it does not differ from aikido, it differs in theory and application, there's no BS, if you need to pull someone down at the brink of his arm shattering, you do so, it's his fault he made you subdue him. The techniques are more limited too, realistically you don't need the full arsenal, you just need to get really good at few basic but highly effective ones. If you want to learn something about it go online and steal Keijutsukai Aikido: Japanese Art of Self-defense by Makiyama, if you like the idea then i guess you can find people to spar with with no issue (as long as they are not the stuckup types rubbing one out to the o-sensei's portrait every morning).
Martial arts are pretty much made for war, from back when wars weren't waged with missiles or artillery but people fighting with swords and spears. It's not possible to judge the value of a martial art in this day and age.As a combat sport though, Aikido is definitely inferior to english boxing or MMA.
>>6551lol yeah this is the one, thx anon
>>5961isn't tai chi just chinese yoga?
>>6995Yes. Sometimes it's marketed as an end all be all combat style though.
>>7020whut? i would understand if someone confused it with wushu but... seriously?
>>6793You think you're tough, huh? Well, I'm going to prove that you're not.I'm gonna make you eat some fried chicken.
>>6563I found some vids on yt and it seems like typical bullshido... Lots of vids but 0 against resisting opponentshttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8FmZVsGgVO4
>>6995It used to be an actual martial art 300 years ago, whether it was actually functional or not I don't know. Then some dude abandoned the martial art aspect and marketed it as a purely healthy practice and it spread to the west.The autists who see themselves as deadly warriors probably belong to the old lineages and drank the "old sage in a cave teaching bruce lee" cool-aid
>>6793The worst pedantic talking point martial autists like to make online."Martial arts" refers to unarmed and historical weapon fighting these days. That's the usage, it's not incorrect.
>>7207Not unarmed. Sorry. Thats your own weird definition. Just primitive arms. like knives and spears and nunchakus
fraud martial art = doesn't spar during traininglegit martial art = spars (full contact) during training It's that simple.
>>7243Search martial arts in your area and you'll get a bunch of karate, taekwondo, bjj, mma, etc. That is how our society uses the term.
>>7252turns out LARPing is legit
>>7261karate - weaponstaekwondo - weaponsbjj - lead pipe
>>7261every single style of kung fu - weaponskuk sul won - weaponshapkido- weaponsliterally every martial art developed before the 1900s- weaponssome are exclusively weapons like kendo/kenjutsuor mostly weapons like hemaand armamost styles of koryu jujitsu -weaponshell most non-koryu jujitsu outside of bjj and judo - weaponseven judo has a vestigal weapons part
>>7277what point do you think you're making. a lot of martial arts have some kind of weapon component, I never disputed that. but martial arts can refer to, and most frequently does, unarmed fighting styles and training. saying we can't analyze boxing or judo as a martial art because we don't use historical weapons anymore is asinine.
>>7285Most traditional martial arts were weapons styles first. The empty hand stuff were just preparatory exercises for weapons fighting.
>>7292Totally beside the point I'm making. Which is that when you say "martial arts" people will think of unarmed fighting, they might know about weapon stuff if they're a little more educated. This is not incorrect usage, purely unarmed sport fighting training is "martial arts" because terms change meaning. It hasn't meant purely weapons training for the purposes of war in centuries.
>>7296so stupid people use words wrong?I can agree to that
>>7302Words and terms shifting in meaning is just how language works. I bet you don't call a butcher a "shambles" or things that are profound "silly" either, but 400 years ago you would have.
>>7322Face it you're wrong.people still commonly use it to refer to weapons.It is a big part of what martial arts means. Many people even make a division between the idea of sport arts and martial arts. Its only MMA buzzword marketing that has even begun to shift it a little bit.
>>7328>>7322 isn't a marital art just any form of combat?
>>7328I said it can also refer to weapons you dolt. The term has meant primarily unarmed fighting since the early 20th century. If anything its become more correct since then, since back then it was only used to refer to Asian stuff. Which is why boxers and wrestlers would issue challenge matches to "martial artists".
>>7337pretty much>>7340>word salad because losing and clearly wrong
>>7343don't have a spergout because you can't understand a simple concept. clueless moms who drop their kids off at karate practice don't struggle with this.
>>7349>my ego is so big I can't even admit defeatface it you don't even spar. If you did, you would know you lost.
>>7354now this is the retarded /asp/ shitflinging i missed
>>7263I mean, more legit than Aikido 100%
>>7357what about lenny sly aikido?
>>5276>special forces>John Wick & h2hIf they have to resort to that, they have already lost.
>>7363is something like alan orr's wing chun where he's modified it into something else entirely?
>>7367>alan orr's wing chunI did a search, and honestly it isnt all that different than what I learned back in the 80s as wing chun. So. . . I guess?maybe most of the shit that gets famous is retarded.All of the chinese style teachers I've known who were any good were really low key about it.
Modern aikido was a collaboration by its inventors son and some of his students to try to make some kind of sense of what he was doing.His son wasn't a martial artist in the slightest and enjoyed jogging and had a business major, so he just wanted it to be cardio.The inventor was a very religious person and would couch all of his lessons in heavy religious metaphors. From his point of view, they probably weren't metaphors. His son, overseeing the construction of modern aikido, wasn't religious.The inventor went from looking for somebody to inherit his art, to trying to teach it openly, to saying "my aikido will die with me"
>>4886>Meaning they were actually used in war. So why are they bullshido?Because none of those martial arts practiced today are based in any way or form the original techniques used in war, meanwhile regular shit like wrestling or muay thai are build in the ring or street which have far more realistic implication that whatever your sifu advertised to you.Invent a time machine and go back learning its original form instead of being a faggy keyboard warrior thinking his strip mall school teachings is hot shit.
>>4414Reminder Seagal is like 6'4, none of this techniques is about Ki but rather his size difference disbalancing his opponent.
>>4848The proven self-defense, and I mean actually defending yourself is to NOT GET HIT. You're as strong as your weakest point and no stance is going to save you if you're getting roundhouse but a fucking large muay thai lad. In the meanwhile dodging that kick, if you could actually do so prevents any sorts of contact whatsoever.
>>7374The shit that gets famous is footage from wing chun classes teaching ridiculously improbable bong sau parrying bullshit and the occasional wing chun guy challenging a kickboxer or mma fighter only to get completely smashed into the ground. When the latter happens you get the wing chun defense network who all arrive at once to decry that guy's style and call him a bitch while insisting that their style is legit or that you can only learn wing chun from a sifu who lives in a cave in gungzhao. I'd like to give wing chun some credit but there is scant video evidence for its efficacy. I've only seen one video where the wing chun guy didn't look totally helpless, this one right here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP0-IpDEUGUThe skill level is low but a win's a win. That's more than I've seen for aikido.
>>7418Its funny that you're using that argument against that post.Do you have a list of talking points you're reading from?
>>7422Could you rebut my post instead of being a butthurt loser triggered over criticisms?
>>7420fair enough.Keeping what you do and how you move concealed is pretty important in most old style martial arts. From a sport point of view it makes sense, but I don't understand why someone that calls themselves a martial artist (in the classical sense) would allow a video of them fighting to be put online.
>>7424You're not wrong. Why would I rebut it?Do you imagine that everything is an attack against you?
>>7428Presumably to make a living. Fencing schools used to promote themselves and do demonstrations in Europe. And those guys were real traditional martial artists, in the sense that they were teaching how to kill people. I can't help but doubt this notion that there are legit masters who don't do any promotion, don't want any money, and there's no evidence that they exist. Why would I believe in that?
>>7433western tradition is a little different.not many people make money on martial arts anyway, unless you're doing competitions or running a daycare. So why care about that? It literally doesn't matter to anyone whether you believe that.
>>7430Yes. I'm a sensitive autist who interprets every post on 4chan, and PARTICULARLY only this site as something personal. Could be a defensive habit that I've developed seeing how anonymity had made people into sarcastic condescending pricks. Cheers.
>>7437Whether or not you can make money doing it has bigger implications. If it's at least lucrative enough to make a living off of then it will be able to attract young people to commit to it full-time, which will keep the talent level high. This is a problem in America with Judo, which is kind of shit compared to a place like France, where the government sponsors it. It's no wonder that Judo is more accessible and the athletes are more successful in France. If there's no money or glory then your audience and participant pool will be very small indeed. I get that you don't care, but it's not an irrelevant question. Muay Thai is another great example of how embracing sport has kept a traditional art alive.Fair enough if you don't give a shit what I think. It's just that too often wing chun guys expect us to believe in this stuff. Or at least act incredulously when wing chun is dismissed.
>>4414On 4chan or Tiwtter or somewhere else, some Asian guy with the martial arts business said that the whole thing (most of it?) is a scam for money.I don't remember much, who said it, but I understood they had him silenced for revealing the scam.
>>7454>they had him silenced for revealing the scamSilenced like legally for defamation or triad gangs dumping his body in the ocean?
>>7459Latter, I think.Again, I might be wrong, but I definitely know someone involved in the martial arts business revealed this. It didn't gained traction into the mainstream, obviously.
>>7465idk dude the fraudulent nature of belt factories and mcdojos has been known about for some time. unless you're talking about something specifically shady going down at a big government institution like the shanghai sports university i have a hard time believing this guy was getting silenced at sea like it's the mafia.
>>6551He probably didn't want to hurt the other guy. Chi is a very dangerous force and it could have blown his skin clean off his body. His students were not in as much danger because their chi is powerful.
>>7470No, no, as an entire category of sports.
>>7493Some asian promos are well known for rigging fights, particularly the ones in China. If you're trying to say that all fighting techniques and the competitions are across the board fraudulent. Then you and unnamed asian guy are full of shit.
>>4414no, the one where you throw qi waves at people is, like you're a fuckin DBZ character.
>>7207I think we disagree over the basic meaning of martial arts. Martial arts were made with murder in mind, you can't really compare what they are today to how they were created.
>>7264>Tae-Kwon Do - weapons>"Kick-Punch Way"Oh yeah, really weapons there bud
>>7568This is basically a linguistics issue. "Martial arts" originally meant fighting techniques relating to war, so fighting with weapons primarily. Then later on the term died out and was revived again to refer to Asian martial arts like jujutsu and karate. These days it refers to unarmed fighting styles and historical weapon fighting styles alike. We don't use the term "martial arts" to refer to small unit tactics, marksmanship with guns, or driving a tank even though the term taken literally encompasses those things as well. It has a different usage today than it did historically. Which is why a BJJ place that has nothing to do with weapons or warfare will advertise itself as martial arts and why the term mixed martial arts exists at all.
>>4934Where the fuck are you from? Cause I can't imagine a single gym with the liability insurance policy big enough to do that.
>>7640This seems pretty common at BJJ joints. The last gym I trained at before covid had several regulars at the open mats that weren't technically signed on and every once in a while a rando would come in off the street.
>>7485That actually was the excuse of one of these no touch guys(not sure if it was this one) of why he lost.
>>7028Yeah they're few and far between but there are idiots that insist Tai Chi is legit for combat. Don't get me wrong, it's a great form of moving meditation but it is not a combat form.
>>5672that was a really gay story
>>7252Going purely off of logic, I'd agree with you. But that's wrong. True every style that says it's going to actually teach you to protect yourself should have some kind of sparring, but it does not have to be full contact.I've loved martial arts all my life but I've also been dirt poor all my life. Full contact sparring still carries a significant risk of injury. I know this is going to sound like a whiny wage slave, but I cannot afford to get injured. I have a family to support and my job would likely fire me if I had to call off for something like "yeah my voluntary hobby has just cost you money boss, sorry I'll be back whenever I can walk without assistance or use my hands again"
>>5672I'll take shit that never happened for 500.Cause if it did happen your instructor is a shitty Martial Artist for creating that problem to begin with, and a douche for not using it as a teachable moment to avoid conflict.
>>7643Oh. I thought you guys were talking about like MMA walkons. Not action cuddling.
>>7653>t. practiced taichi forms with senior citizens in the park one day
>>7653This isn't completely true. Tai chi used to be an integral part of kung fu until modern martial artists got sick of doing gay yoga instead of kicking ass. Kung fu is the external "hard" art of fighting while tai chi is the internal "soft" art of proper breathing, balance, muscle tension control, etc., as well as meditation and all that shit. So, yes, the movements of tai chi are all kung fu based and can be broken down into their original applications, but they are done slowly in a way that isn't really about fighting. Anyone who claims to win fights with tai chi alone is a lying retard.I do like tai chi though. Push hands sparring is fun.
>>7698Actually it was being offered at my college. Was awesome. Mostly chicks in spandex.
>>7701That is not a wrestler. On the first day of JV middle school practice they teach you to be low enough to touch the ground.
>>7701I dont see any discernable wrestling technique anywhere in the videoI'm not sure what that posture he has is, hes not level changing or hand fighting or anything. Hes just walking forward and leaning on then guy
>>4414fuck it, i'll post in the first 10000 posts to a board i'll never visit again as long as steven segal is cockpunching someone
>>7732There was probably a no leg grabs rule
>>7733Thats kind of the point of internal styles though.To make it look like the other guy wasnt doing anything and you weren't trying.
>>7869Ah, so it's indistinguishable from fighting a clinical retard or a compliant demonstration. As expected from a venerable kung fu style.
>>7869But the "wrestler" really wasnt doing anythingNo trained grappler will ever approach someone upright like that. You have posture beaten into you from day 1, that if nothing else you know how to standA wrestler would be bent over at arms length away pawing at his legs, not standing up tall trying to hug someone
>>7868Still blatantly not a wrestler. Even the most brain dead of wrestlers would've at least attempted to do, y'know, a wrestling move. Even if there was a no leg grab rule a wrestler would still be low as fuck just out of habit.
>>7701Some of these comments are pretty funny. Apparently the old man has some kind of stupefying touch and body posture that renders any attacker unable to initiate any kind of attack. I guess this is the power of internal kung fu.Not only does he not go low, he doesn't attempt to trip or use any of his upper body strength to unbalance the old guy at all. He just hugs him chest to chest until he's comically thrown spinning to the ground. If this isn't staged then they pulled this dude off the street and he has zero grappling experience of any kind.
>>4414The biggest fraud is people who try to claim Jeet Kune Do as an actual Martial Art rather than just a philosophy. There are plenty of people who do this
>>7701>that pushLmao why do chinese martial artists always make the fakest shit. At least make it somewhat believeable.
>learn shotokan karate for 15 years >still can't tatsumakisenpyuukyakuNice "martial art" you got there
>>6551The way he keeps touching his nose, like he can't possibly understand how this could have happened...
>>4450Did Aikido for 4 years as a teen. Literally nothing in the martial art had anything to do with "using an opponent strength against them". I don't know where this meme comes from. It's all limb locks and weird throws.
>>8162You're a fucking retard. Aikido is all about using your opponents momentum against them. Momentum = force. That same exact phrase you used applies to every grappling style in existence.
>>8177>Aikido is all about using your opponents momentum against them.lol no it's not. Take Ikkyo for example. Before the attack the opponent is going forward, and then you're pushing him backwards. So you're clearly not using his momentum. Even in Gokkyo where you are throwing him in the direction of his strike, it's all about getting him off balance. Aikido is more about balance control and using angles where the opponent is weakest. Frankly anybody who still believes in the "using opponent force against them" has either never trained aikido or is a drooling gullible retard. If that was the case, aikido drilling would be uke throwing wild attacks as hard as he can so there is momentum to use, but in reality the drilling is pretty slow, not really about momentum. Well, maybe there is some retard meme federation where they throw themselves at each other, lol, you tell me.Anyway it's all pretty worthless. About four years in is when I started training other martial arts (meme martial arts too but I was a gullible teen so eh), and sparring with some dudes with basic experience in judo. And boy let me tell you >>5674 is delusional, as I was before I sparred. Four years of Aikido will leave you with no fucking clue of how to behave in a fight whatsoever.
>>8162Aikido doesn't have locks - except at the beginner level. Sadly, thats all you'll find anywhere.Aikido has no Aiki these days
>>8198>Aikido doesn't have locks - except at the beginner levelNigger what the fuck are you talking about? There are joint locks even in the dan exams
>>8203yeah bro. Its sad
>>8203In bjj, getting past whitebelt to blue belt meant you have learned something.In aikido, getting to blackbelt means you barely know the training wheel basics.
>>8204The only sad thing is drinking the kool-aid. People, trained people, don't throw themselves at you in fights. There is no momentum to use because trained fighters don't just telegraph their attacks nor leave their limbs hanging for you to play with.
>>8207kay. but why did you reply to my post? this doesn't have anything to do with it.
>>4414the problem lies with your expectations, if you're going into aikido expecting your training to translate 1 to 1 to handling yourself in self defense you're going to feel cheated for sure, because aikido is only indirectly helpful to real world applications, and only if you're able to generalize and abstract away the "sweeteners" that are in place in a normal training session to avoid injuries>>8194it depends, ikkyo (I'll talk about shomenuchi ikkyo for simplicity) can be done without letting the opponent even gain momentum, immediately blocking the raised arm, but you can also let him launch the shomenuchi and redirect it laterally and then down, while changing guard, in which case you're redirecting his momentum downwards. holding techniques aside, just look at any kokyunage under the sun, you'll be hard pressed to find one that doesn't use the opponent's momentum.
>>4414The best defense is foresight. Anything else is vanity or poverty. And anything goes style is the official art of poverty.
>>4885The canonical aikido defense to a dojo raid of this type is to invite your opponent outside to fight, then lock the door behind him.
>>4414It works if you don't get hurt. It's not a fighting style so much as a not fighting style. There are lots of ways to not fight, but aikido recommends running.
>>8350>It's not a fighting style so much as a not fighting style. There are lots of ways to not fight, but aikido recommends runningThen why bother with all the other shit that doesnt actually work. If this was true aikido classes should just be doing 100 yard dashes all day long.
>>4885>>6551https://youtu.be/2pHwsqQqmm4This ones my favourite. Literal Tranny aikidoka just gets the piss smacked out of him after talking massive amounts of shit
>>8367Long hair = tranny? Take your meds
>>8378Look at that fucking womens shirt its wearing in the shit talking sections you autist.
>>8367I love how Aikido goes after BJJ. They don't really fuck with anyone else. I guess BJJ looks like easy pickings compared to Judo/Boxing/Wrestling because the whole "flow rolling" thing they have going on. Not as intense maybe? Anyway I find it fucking hilarious that they all go after BJJ. Why not start with Ninjutsu or some shit and work your way up?
>>8387Ive seen them talk shit about judo and boxing too.https://youtu.be/AssByvGVx6sUnfortunately I havent seen any videos where a legit boxing guy goes at it with an aikido guy. Its always some guy acting like a boxer to demonstrate aikido can totally counter it.
>>8390Yeah but they talk that shit from a distance. The fact that they are confident enough to walk into the BJJ gyms is funny to me. BJJ is somehow simultaneously overhyped and underrated. An Akido guy would never attempt to fight a boxer.
>>7420>The shit that gets famous is footage from wing chun classes teaching ridiculously improbable bong sau parrying bullshit and the occasional wing chun guy challenging a kickboxer or mma fighter only to get completely smashed into the ground. When the latter happens you get the wing chun defense network who all arrive at once to decry that guy's style and call him a bitch while insisting that their style is legit or that you can only learn wing chun from a sifu who lives in a cave in gungzhao.Thanks for the keks man. You also raised some good points in later posts about making a living and skill. It's fun to think about Pai Mei living in the mountain and teaching his one last student the forbidden death touch technique but reality leaves much to be desired. If something works, it doesn't become hidden, it propagates itself to every corner of the Earth.
>>7420>you can only learn wing chun from a sifu who lives in a cave in gungzhaokek
martial arts are incredible for getting functional strength but especially mental growth though instilling things like work ethic. people who practice them in the hope of learning how to beat people up are brainwashed larper losers..
>>8456>people who practice them in the hope of learning how to beat people up are brainwashed larper losers..Thats literally the point of martial arts. If youre not learning how to beat someones ass its not martial. Go practice you ethnic dance.
>>8469>t. brainwashed larper
>>8469>If youre not learning how to beat someones ass its not martial.Just get a gun nerd. If you aren't learning actual weapons you're just larping.
>>8482>>8473I have a gun. I don't train martial arts for self defense I train martial arts because I like to fight. Anyone who pretends that they totally hate fighting but train some aikido or karate bullshit anyways is a fucking LARPer unwilling to put the effort in to win.
>>8390ah yes, aikido. The art of never taking initiative and looking like a literal block of onions
>>8497>I train martial arts because I like to fightif you have no interest in mastery of any kind then all you're doing is flailing your limbs around ineffectually.
>>8497>Anyone who pretends that they totally hate fighting but train some aikido or karate bullshit anyways is a fucking LARPerno one is talking about hating fighting, all I'm saying is that if fighting is your only or main motivation then you have already failed.
>>8536>if you have no interest in mastery of any kind then all you're doing is flailing your limbs around ineffectually.I have an interest in mastery of fighting. In other words I have an interest in martial arts, retard.>all I'm saying is that if fighting is your only or main motivation then you have already failed.lol, ok
>>8543no offense but you sound like a meathead who just signed up to a dojo because it allowed them to punch people legally.
>>8378>that shirt>that lisp>aikidoIt's at least a faggot, if not a full blown tranny
>>8544>signed up to a dojo because it allowed them to punch people legally.did you sign up for inner peace? what do you even train? Because me and the judo bros have an absolutely fantastic time tossing the piss out of eachother
>>8553>did you sign up for inner peace?why do you have to take everything to the extremes, it's like there's only loving fighting or hating fighting and practicing for just the physical element vs spirituality. you obviously haven't done judo enough for this to become an issue but it's impossible to get above a certain level in a martial art without serious dedication and self-sacrifice in trying to understand and learn the *proper* technique. and I'm not talking about grandpa blackbelt voodoo either, just being able to practice on a level that isn't totally fucking pedestrian.
>>8565>it's impossible to get above a certain level in a martial art without serious dedication and self-sacrifice in trying to understand and learn the *proper* technique.No shit retard thats called practice. Practice is a part of getting good at martial arts which is again a fighting art. That is the point. To get good at fighting.What do you train? You never answered and when you do I bet its going to be laughable.
>>8573>What do you train?even asking this as if it mattered is embarrassing enough
>>8588It does though. Some Martial Arts like Wrestling & Boxing are 100% competition oriented while others like Tai-Chi and Aikido are better for you mentally. Different styles seek out different things. Saying whatever style you happen to practice could reveal a lot about you own philosophy of martial arts, why you feel that way, and even the reason you train.
>>4446>SystemaSystema is the greatest faggotry ever. Just look for Systema videos on YT. You can see them faking it. One guy gets knocked out from a slap. Laughable.
>>8596I mean yeah but at the end of the day if you aren't doing it for self improvement then you're gonna get fucked up because all you wanted all along was to do that to other people until the day you met someone better than you.
>>4721>5) Krav MagaIsn't Krav Maga the official Martial Arts of the Israeli army? So there has to be something to it. And Wing Chung is just fancy kickboxing, so its superior to Systema.
>>8588Ethnic dancer confirmed lol
>>4734Judo was developed by the Samurai.
>>8596Plus, the mental side of things all has to do with conditioning you for hard work, patience, self-discipline and it removes certain mental blocks that make normal people incapable of fighting effectively. It's an inevitable side effect if you do it for long enough and put in the effort. That part is the same across all of martial arts, the differences come in at a body awareness level but we aren't even talking about that.
>>8608Improving at fighting is self improvement. God I can hear your smug pseudointellectual voice from here
>>8614Judo was developed by jigoro kano who studied previous jujutsu styles that were developed hy samurai. Dont get them confused.
>>8596>Tai-Chi and Aikido are better for you mentally.Boxing and wrestling, martial arts that actually involve fighting, are also better for you mentally. How do you learn courage and calmness under pressure when theres no actual risk in your training?
>>8619Oh right, my bad. ^^
>>8628I did Aikido for 3 years in my youth and all the meditation was just sitting with closed eyes for one minute before training and then for another minute after training. It doesn't prepare you in any way for a self defense situation.And Tai-Chi is not a martial art in any way. It's some fancy yoga gymnastics.
>>8639Im sorry to hear you spent so long doing aikido but at least you learned from your mistake.
>>8666Well it was a class in school. I could choose Aikido or some other stuff I didn't care about. I had fun at least. :D
what's a good martial art to learn for a skinny-fat, lanklet guy
>>8728Above all else the one you will train consistently. Practice what you're interested in.
>>4414I had Aikido explained to me as a supplementary art for higher level Ju Jutsu black belts. You don't learn to fight at Aikido. You already know how to fight and now you are autistically specialising in wristlocks and advanced breakfalling alone. It is pure wristlock specialisation. Not a full all encompassing martial art and with that in mind it is amazing for that. Tai-Chi is much the same. They are lower intensity arts for more experienced martial artists to sort of retire into. Keeping your skills trained and your body conditioned to an extent. Like taking the pot off the boil. Without high intensity training with sparring you will NEVER learn how to fight but if that's all you ever do your body will be utterly fucked by 40. If you want to train a few nights a week and not sacrifice your body for the privilege. Aikido and Tai Chi are for you.
>>8773>I had Aikido explained to me as a supplementary art for higher level Ju Jutsu black belts.this is a cope. Look at martial arts journey on youtube. The man spent years trying to make his Aikido functional but finally came to the conclusion that there is nothing you can learn in Aikido that would not be time better spent learning something else. He's an amatuer MMA fighter now.
>>8347If you have to fight you've already lost
>>4414You have to define fake because every sport even the not fake ones the participants behave in a semi cooperative way and they also do things proactively. In a non cooperative impromptu fight somebody puts a wrist lock on you you might not do a backflip but it might actually be smarter than whatever you did do like let your arm get broke. I think it was taekwondo, I saw both dudes do one handed cartwheels at the exact same time trying to counter each other. Funny af but also cool
>>8773I bet Akido would be fun for a Judo Black belt if they just wanted to style on people.
>>8790>be martial artist>see pharmacist getting robbed at gun point>bust the thief up so bad he has to be hospitalizedClearly he lost this fighthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGrJ3gnl25Q
>>8791this is how memekidoers think
>>7485Go back to /x/
>>4851Bullshit on your bullshit. Martial arts is ironic sometimes it looks like it's about multiple experts fighting but it's often about training the untrained to defend against the also untrained. Martial arts isn't always a sport. If you are just trying to thwart untrained niggas and gtfo your best bet may often be having good reflexes and a few effective well trained instinct moves. As soon as you need to you stomp a foot, twist a wrist, punch a throat, poke an eye then gtfo.Aikido is weird because it's about balance but standing straight up. You'd think they'd be crouched. But irl people are usually standing straight up so you wanna be able to throw people off balance
>>8791>every sport even the not fake ones the participants behave in a semi cooperative way and they also do things proactivelyYeah dude in the olympics the boxers, judoka, tkd guys and wrestlers are all actually playing along with eachother. nobody actually wants to win.
>>8805Irl nobody would be doing backflips on purpose. The aikido dude if he executed properly would have someone in a painful arm lock or would have flipped the dude on his back in an also painful way. I've seen some complete bullshit aikido but if you were practicing breaking arms/flipping people, your training partner would intentionally flip himself of course
>>8840Thats just crappy standing jujitsu.Theres no aiki.You won't understand aiki until you can make a lock work without causing any pain.Then you have to make it work without any lock.Then you will have beginner aiki.This probably can't be done in any reasonable amount of time without actually sparring. Ueshiba didn't have modern sparring methods back when he invented aikido
>>8830When was the last time you saw a wrestler start gouging out eyeballs? There are rules nigga. Why do you see someone sprawl ever? Why do you see boxers hug on the ropes or mma fuck on the mat? None of those things are effective in real life. There's sport martial arts and self defence martial arts. Both of them are bullshit in different ways. Aikido wouldn't work on anyone else with training but would be more effective irl at certain times than certain other things that may be more effective in general over the thing that is actually more effective irl. If you can follow that. I'd just as quickly choke someone out but that just might not be the right thing at the moment. Imagine how useful a good aikido attack would be against someone who has drawn their weapon on you, reaching out with his arm, his partner is also there. Would you executed a triangle choke, could you do it on both dudes at the same time before they get a shot off? Lol. In that moment I would pull a aikido bullshit and flip the dude take his gun and duck and shoot.
>>8823>training the untrained to defend against the also untrainedthis is the dumbest shit i've ever heard. Guess what dumb fuck if you can dodge a clean left hook from an experienced boxer youll have an even easier time dodging a wide right haymaker from some drunk retard.
>>8858When I get good at a videogame, i get used to metagaming and then get creamed by beginners without a metagame and just have spaz luck and fools confidence.
>>8857I can't tell who is trolling who now
>>8857>When was the last time you saw a wrestler start gouging out eyeballs? There are rules niggathat doesnt even happen in vale tudo or even often in real life because its a waste of time when you can do something that actually ends the fight. The only useful eye pokes are the jon jones kind.>Why do you see someone sprawl everBecause thats the most effective way to snub a single or double leg take down are you fucking retarded?>Why do you see boxers hug on the ropesgetting put on the ropes is not where you want to be. If you surrender too much space you lose the ability to maneuver. this is true both in the ring and in real life>mma fuck on the mat None of those things are effective in real lifeYeah dude, throwing a guy to the floor and punching lights out or choking him unconcious doesnt work on da streetz, youre totally right. We should practice low percentage wrist locks instead but never on a resisting opponent.>Imagine how useful a good aikido attack would be against someone who has drawn their weapon on you, reaching out with his armyeah or any number of legit judo throws and standing arm locks judoka and bjj guys have trained against resisting people> his partner is also there. Would you executed a triangle choke, could you do it on both dudes at the same time before they get a shot off?LMAO You think you'd fair any better trying to wrist lock a guy before his buddy shoots you?Somehow despite having no real fighting experience you sound more retarded than a punch drunk boxer.
>>8865Yeah thats why backyard brawlers regularly enter into fights with pros and win. shut the fuck up.
>>8872Do you even see all the assumptions you're making in this retarded rebuttal?
>>8858There are still specifics to every martial art sport or self defense. Krav maga is about pain without power. Ninjutsu is literally about being sneaky. Wing chun is being a poor Chinese fighting with your farming tools. Boxing is great and probably the most effective sport martial art to train for sport that would be effective almost unchanged in self defense but even boxing is more effective without rules. When have you seen a boxer train uppercuts to the groin? I bet it would be pretty effective. Irl, a boxer would create huge weaknesses for themselves if the other person wasn't also a straight up boxer
>>8884The state of wing chun today is like if somebody took boxing and pared it down to slip drills and speedbag work and everything else was removed.Sure you kept the weirder iconic training aspects, but you took out all the fighting.
>>8884krav, wing chun, and ninjutsu are all about scamming stupid westerners out of their money in exchange for false confidence
>>8869>Because thats the most effective way to snub a single or double leg take down are you fucking retarded?And you would be dumb enough to go for a takedown on the streets? Holy shit lol. Yeah you just got two points... Of course it could go any way but if there are multiple people the last thing you want is to be on your back. If you had much experience, you would have learned young, you can not ever ever take someone down and start wailing on them without their friend taking a good shot at you.
>>8900Bro, a good takedown is a fight ender
>>8900>And you would be dumb enough to go for a takedown on the streets?Im talking about takedown defense not going for takedowns and even then, yeah. I can, and have, done so successfully.>Of course it could go any way but if there are multiple people the last thing you want is to be on your backwell then I guess you better practice your fucking sprawl then so you dont end up on your back.> you can not ever ever take someone down and start wailing on them without their friend taking a good shot at you.lol, reality is not your violence fantasy
>>8903> you can not ever ever take someone down and start wailing on them without their friend taking a good shot at you.on that solitary point, he's not wrong.You should train with that in mind if you're worried about using it for self defense.
>>8906>You should train with that in mind if you're worried about using it for self defense.context matters. I dont go to clubs so im not really worried about six assholes trying to hit me at once. If that was the situation id approach it differently than a road rager trying to rough me up over a parking space.
>>8903The point is some situations you may not want to be on the floor at all. What if the floor is lava? Fuuuuuuuuck you this is my violent fantasy bitch. If you put a wrestler against a samurai, and the wrestler shot, the samurai would stab him in the neck. What is the one true answer then? For me it's run. If you can run away you win lol
>>8919>The point is some situations you may not want to be on the floor at allI never said there wasnt. youre the retard who said>you can not ever ever take someone down and start wailing on them without their friend taking a good shot at you.Also, to emphasize your retardation, I want to point out that wrestling is extremely useful in sword fighting as well. Both Japanese Jujutsu and ringen am schwert (wrestling at arms) have variations of a double leg take down because once youre that close and on top its easier for you to stab the other guy in the throat with a dagger than it is for him to do that to you.
>>8927>responding to an obvious parody post as if it were an actual argument.Its time to take a walk, fren.
>>4838I'll join you if you don't mind buddy
>>4446>>8604you know, I simply searched for a video and its far from the worst fucking thing I've ever seenhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw8oY75_bQ4
Everyone arguing in the thread about what's the best martial art when I unironically consider its "stick"Its literally fucking impossible, and I don't give a single fuck about even 30 years of intense training, to beat an armed guy unless he is incompetent with the weapon. You grab a good fucking stick with both hands and you become fucking invincible against jiujitsu, karate, MMA or fucking whatever becase I swear to God you are not going to reach me with any technique
>>9891looks fucking dumb to me, and is exactly the kind of thing i've come to expect from systema. it seems like the russian equivalent of "internal" kung fu. a lot of bizarre claims about special posture and breathing, weird unalive demonstrations like what we see there, and everyone is an old fatass.
>>9905no, sure, its fucking dumb, but its not wing chun or the literal fucking magic that Xu Xiaodong smashes
>>9897Gheres martial arts based around stick fighting too lol
>>9911>no, sure, its fucking dumb, but its not wing chun or the literal fucking magic that Xu Xiaodong smashesTheres branches of sytema that teach chi blocking and no touch ko shit too. Theres also systema schools that are just rebranded sambo. Its dumbness can vary pretty widely.https://youtu.be/5Uw_LRRtOmI
>>9897>thinking you could keep a collegiate wrestler away with a stick
>>4731>>5276This. Used to do Krav Maga for a while and looking back it was kind of a waste of time. The people who were teaching me never bothered to outline it, but I learned years later that it's basically a crash course that the IDF puts recruits through to build aggression as a quick means of resisting and retaliating and doesn't actually have much, if anything to do with a self defence system.
>>9940and those are objetively the best>>9943of fucking course I could, and so could youLiterally, its not because I'm good with a stick, its because a good stick is fucking unbeatable with bear hands without risking serious injuries. By the way, of course it needs to be good, if the stick is flexible, short or just break easily when you strike with it then of fucking course its innefective, I'm primarily talking about a long bo. I see your point if you are trying to fight a collegiate wrerstler with a one handed club, but even then a police baton is a severe and dangerous advantage
>>9942yeah, then its exactly the same, fuck that dumbshitalthough I have nothing against people who practice tai chi and shit for fun knowing that it isn't a real martial art (I used to do kung fu and it was fun as shit) but people who scam others trying to pass it as real self defense should be put in jail for being snake oil sellers
>>9959>although I have nothing against people who practice tai chi and shit for fun knowing that it isn't a real martial art (I used to do kung fu and it was fun as shit) but people who scam others trying to pass it as real self defense should be put in jail for being snake oil sellersthis. its for fun, not defense.
>>9955I still don't see either of us taking a collegiate wrestler with a stick or a police baton. Not consistently anyway. All he has to do is grab it and you're fucked.
>>9955>and those are objetively the bestThe question I, as always, ask when I see shitty retarded posts like this is "best for what?" \you're talking aboutbeating an unarmed person with a weapon which begs the question of why have a martial art in the first place. Also, if you're going to walk around with a weapon why not take something more substantial?> its because a good stick is fucking unbeatable with bear hands without risking serious injuries.literally nothing including an unarmed man can be beat without risking serious injuries are you retarded? but just to illustrate melee weapons are not insurmountable...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B6XybORb5M
>>9974don't take it too seriously, I mean that its the best if you just want to beat anyone, KO'n him or causing injuries with considerable less effort and training. At the end of the day its just shitposting to start the conversation about the practicality or reality of bringing simple weapons (sticks) to fights. But to continue the discussion>why not take something more substantialTwo reasons, the main one being to not overkill. The main advantage of a stick is having longer range and thus added power to the strikes, not the capability to actually fuck up irreversibly your opponent with a stabbing with an edged weapon or just outright killing him with a gun. The second reason is the easy of availability, you don't need to carry a stick with you, just look around you and take notice of how many things you can just use as one, like lamps, stools or, even if its a big stretch, a tv screen. You could technically carry a baton with you, but a simple alternative is to use any improvised weapon to give yourself an easy win in a fight, but I said "stick" because of course I mean it when I say it would be the most usable and handy tool in that situation, even if not the most realistic oneOnce again, don't take it too seriouslyThat video is extremely shitty, not only is the guy using a short weapon, he just does an overhead swing that seems to come straight of self defense manuals without any control or thinking, the perfect example of someone being incompetent when handling a weapon>>9972yeah well fuck me, but all you have to do is to not get grabbed and get a really good head bashing or serious blow, which is way easier thanks to the long reach.>with a police batonI agree that with one of those it would be way more difficult, but still think it would be a cointoss of whenever the one with the baton could get a good blow or not before getting grabbed
>>9987are you just trying to fish the 10000 get? because that's fucking pathetic
>>9985>I mean that its the best if you just want to beat anyone,why not a gun then? why not a well placed pipe bomb>The main advantage of a stick is having longer range and thus added power to the strikesbut people in this thread have already pointed out a major disadvantage which is that when range is closed the stick becomes almost useless.> just look around you and take notice of how many things you can just use as one, like lamps, stools or, even if its a big stretch, a tv screennone of those things operate in a way similar to a balanced stick and you would know this if you actually trained>That video is extremely shitty, not only is the guy using a short weaponlike a fucking TV?> he just does an overhead swingin HEMA many manuals refer to an overhead strike the peasants strike because humans are wired specifically to fight in that way. Most people if you hand them an object and send them into battle with it will swing it over their head.>yeah well fuck me, but all you have to do is to not get grabbed >just dont get grabbed brolol, you sound like an experianced fighter and we should all take your advice.
>>10007all your fucking questions are answered perfectly in that same post, you literally just want to argue for the sake of it because you are somehow angry as fuck, fuck you and have a good day
>>10014>you literally just want to argue for the sake of itYeah im on 4chan>all your fucking questions are answered perfectlyExplain to me your tv martial art
>>10018>I'm going to ignore all his points and get angry and defensive because I'm on 4chandude, stop posting, just take a break
>>9985>yeah well fuck me, but all you have to do is to not get grabbed and get a really good head bashing or serious blow, which is way easier thanks to the long reach.Okay. So you think if a collage football linebacker with no pads was charging you, you would be able to keep his ass away with a stick. You have 10 seconds at best before he tackles you. Unlike the Linebacker wrestlers also know more than 1 takedown. Let's also not forget that you have to stop and go find this stick btw. You don't just have that shit on you. You would get absolutely fucking ragdolled.
>>10025a fucking spear or pike could stop a charging horse, are you stupid enough to think it wouldn't stop a linebacker even if it was blunt?>if you don't have a stick then fighting with a stick is stupid and you would get ragdolledyou don't fucking say?
>>10020>ignore all his pointsYeah ill do that if the points are retarded. Explain to me how a tv or lamp is anyways similar to a balanced stick
>>4414Aikido isn't fake, there are people who do fake it but I've had the real thing done to me and it hurts like hell
>>10042can you provide a good video of someone doing it legitimately? I'm honestly curious
>>10048https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olO_q6TX3VQThis videos kind of dated but it's pretty similar to what was done to me. I'm not an expert but from what I know, it's less about flipping people and more about joint manipulation.
>>10033>>if you don't have a stick then fighting with a stick is stupid and you would get ragdolled>you don't fucking say?Unless you legitimately haveva fucking fighting stick in your hand at all times his criticism is perfectly legitimate. Even with a gun you need to know how to fight with ithttps://youtu.be/popKfnyfI3Q
>>10062that's mostly showing nikkyo and ijikimeosae, for sure two of the most applicable techniques, even more so if you go for the joint lever right away
>>10068>his criticism is perfectly legitimateIn case you haven't noticed he is trying to argue that fighting with a stick is stupid, which is extremely far from being stupidyou can say with all fariness that having a stick on your at all times or finding one when you need it is impossible, but it doesn't invalidate the fact that against a stick barehanded martial arts are very innefectiveI haven't watched that video entirely but from the first seconds I agree, reminds me a lot of the things taught in "surviving edged weapons". Its basically the same idea, aka "if it gets you you are extremely fucked" (a knife or someone with wrestling training), ergo why the biggest training policemen can receive is "just never let anyone get close to you". Reached that point tho, when you are grabbed like that with murderous intent, fucking nothing can save you, not a gun (as seen in the video), not a stick or knife, and neither being the best and most expert wrestler or karateka in history, so its really fucking pointless to put that situation as an examplereally, it ain't that difficult to understand that my point is that its just not reasonable to take a fight against someone armed with anything no matter your training or background because they have a massive advantage (that could be overcome in situations like the video show). The "stick" in particular was just because personal experience
>>4414you cant fucking use it in a fight it is shit everybody knows its shit segal is a faggot kike
>>10033>a fucking spear or pike could stop a charging horsemfw It's a fucking spear now>In case you haven't noticed he is trying to argue that fighting with a stick is stupidexcept i'm literally not.>You grab a good fucking stick with both hands and you become fucking invincible against jiujitsu, karate, MMA or fucking whatever I don't agree with you thinking that you would beat Jon Jones in a Cage fight because you have a fucking stick. You're acting like a stick is off rip maxed out defense stats. What in the fuck are you even talking about.
>>10112take a break
>>10114take an L.
>>8610Krav just teaches you to fight like a jew. Its not an actual system. It teaches to win at any cost.
>>10114Youve told at least two differebt peoole in this thread now to take break considering I was the first you retard.>inb4 I was merely pretending
>PSA>PSA>PSA>This is a Public Service Announcement.none of the people keeping the thread alive have done a single martial art to proficiency in their life.
>>10164no, he stole my idea. and he did it stupid.
>>10192Wrestled for 8 years :/ Had easy over 100 matches.
>>8773>Without high intensity training with sparring you will NEVER learn how to fight but if that's all you ever do your body will be utterly fucked by 40.Why do people believe this ? If someone got into a real fight every month he'd be called a lunatic, why is the same standard not applied to martial arts training ?If someone just spars in a controlled environment all he'll ever learn is how to be good at sparring, which is different from being good at real fighting.
>>8773If people think aikido is about wristlocks, its no wonder nobody can figure out how to use it in sparring. LOL.Aikido is taught in exactly the opposite to correct order. Wristlocks are the cherry on the top.Completely unnecessary, but a nice addition.
bitches are just eating the fucking candied cherries out of the can and not even baking the fucking cake
>>101926.5 years if judo, on and off kickboxing. 4 years if hema. Cross training in bjj and mauy thai.
>>10420>Why do people believe this ?Because it's the only way to learn you fucking retard. You train compliant, then step it up by sparring. Then you step it up even further with conpetition. By the time your proficient you should be prepared for stepping it up even further in self defense. If you have not taken those steps you likely will fail when the time comes to defend yourself.
>>10520>muh inner peace>>10523What the fuck are you even trying to say
>>10529>being too dumb to read
>>10530>being too dunb to train
>>8777Rokas is a hero and has indisputably btfo the majority of aikido bullshitters, but he's not actually a refutation for what that anon is talking about. Rokas' only training was in aikido, he never had a background in a functional grappling system that trains with resistance like judo. If aikido really is a supplementary art for high level grapplers than Rokas' inability to apply his training is to be expected. I'm open to the idea of aikido being a grouping of low percentage techniques reserved for expert grapplers. Especially because really high level dudes are likely to be older and out of their competing prime so doing this kind of gentle, conceptual training will appeal more to them. It doesn't excuse aikido in general though, because that is certainly not how its advertised. Your experience at the average aikido school will be a waste of time. But still, with the right methodology, I could see it not being completely worthless for people who are already experts. It's like if there was a whole martial art dedicated to flying armbars and niche submissions like the twister. For brown belts and above? Some good shit to learn and probably a lot of fun. But for a newbie? Just work on your guard man, leave this shit for 10 years from mow.
>>8773>You don't learn to fight at Aikido.>You already know how to fight and now you are autistically specialising in wristlocks and advanced breakfalling alone.Ramsey Dewey said the same thing.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OMA3lt62ws
>>10527Most people don't even know how to fight, you describe it as if all that would help you get rid of the fear from confrontation, kind of like what Tyson said about everyone having a plan until they get punched in the face. I think having a clear mind and good jugement isn't something sparring will teach.
Purple belt hereI have been thrown with a wrist lock not once but twice by a japanese jujitsu black belt during live sparringI was embarrassed and confused when it happened and was less embarrassed when he did it to someone else as well and that person was a judo brown belt, but was still confusedNow I'm not sure about how reliable it would be as a counter attack with someone punching at you, but within the context of hand fighting he was able to get his grip and flip me by my wrist even though I'm advanced levelSo there must be something to it
>>10888in an interview with joe rogan, tyson said he regularly spars with people who can work him over, but choke up once they get in the ring.Ali and tyson were both famous for intimidating the fuck out of people during the event, but before the fight even started. There is a whole art to prefight setup.Including but obviously not limited to negotiating the terms and the rules.
>>10888>Most people don't even know how to fight,>therefire I shouldnt learn how to fight eitherAlso yes getting into fights id how you lose the fear of fighting.
>>11305>getting into fights is how you lose the fear of fightingI call bullshit on this. Scholastic Wrestlers can have hundreds of matches. The stress/fear never goes away.
>>4414I'm not familiar with any martial arts, but Aikido seems like an easy and simple martial art. It's good enough for the simplicity it has which is why to some people it may seem like a scam if that makes any sense. It can't compete with more difficult stuff like karate/taekwondo etc but it also isn't as difficult and requires as much dedication as those to learn well and possibly "master"This is my view as an outsider on Aikido
>>4414Gracie Jujitsu is the biggest fruad martial art. The Gracies didn't invent shit.
>>10951Athletes are inevitably just playing games so they can get away with not being intimidating. Diplomats and businessmen are ironically stronger in that regard, despite never coming to blows.
>>11374Anonymous liked your comment "Gracie Jujitsu is the biggest fruad martial art. The Gracies didn't invent shit."
>>11355aikido is rediculously complicated when you get into it. Karate is basically, here is punch here is kick, now train. Get better.
>>11536I think it's relative to the person. It's not that complicated. All aikido really does is teach you to hold a joint in such a way that there is only one direction your opponent can follow without hurting themselves. The rest is just learning to flow with your opponents momentum.
>>11545I guess anything is complicated when you really get into it, but all the karate people I have known appreciated its straightforward nature. Just whack the guy. Then throw him if you can. Here's how to whack harder. Heres another throw if you want.Its not like aikido, where people have debates about whether there even are techniques in pure aikido. And the guy who invented it pretty much said that there are 10,000 techniques. or variously, every single time you repeat a technique, its a different technique. Or variously, the techniques come to you automatically as revealed by the kami of the universe and the combination of water and fire with the breath of the sun and moon and the breath of the tides.
>>11549I think he was being overly descriptive. Like oh there's so many different techniques because the angle a joint can twist at is so varied, and you could toss your opponent this way, and that way.Lots of martial arts are guilty of this thinking. I never really understood it. I like things more straightforward as well.
there are multiple reasons why aikido has a bad reputation: 1) it's a young martial art with little history behind it, if you (rightfully) don't count it as a branch of daito ryu aikijujitsu, and the comparison with centuries old schools is poor. of course this isn't a question of aikido being a poor victim to lack of prestige, it is really plagued with the flaws of a martial art that's in its infancy.2) since the public doesn't have a clue of what aikido is about (think about how everybody recognizes a soto gari as a judo throw, or how iconic karate tsuki are), apart from exaggerated and choreographed seagal fights, it's easy to sell off some fancy moves as aikido, which generates schools teaching approximations of it, if at all.3) lastly but not leastly, in the eyes of other martial artists the role of uke (the one who attacks and induces/suffers the technique) is controversial to say the least, and the difference compared to a normal sparring partner makes it so that, when viewed as one, it looks like he's going along with the other dude, giving off the impression that the whole technique is fake/a dance. for better or worse the uke is aikido's main prerogative; it can easily be the most interesting aspect of the martial art but it's surely also the reason why aikido will never be able to recreate real-life combat conditions, so for anyone looking at aikido with fighting in mind it will always look ridiculous and off-putting.
>>11627I have a first hand account of someone failing a black belt examination in judo because the joseki felt the uke jumped at one point during the kata
>>11637I don't know much about judo, but I think it's true that its kata section resembles aikido yeah. as far as my point is concerned the difference is that the public doesn't associate judo to its study of kata, nor do other martial artists judge its merits in a fight on that basis
>>11667Well in summary the way judo works is in order to be eligible for a black belt you need to score a certain number of points in tournaments as a brown belt. And it pays to be a winner because you get more points for having winning streaks and what notAnd that scoring process can take anywhere from a year to infinity depending on how often you participate in ranked tournamentsOnce you have scored your required points you go before a committee to test out for your black belt. Your instructor doesnt award it to you, the only part they have in the process is sponsoring you to do it when they think you're readyNow the fact is you can be really slick and elite at literally 1 or 2 throws and that's all it takes to score enough points. You just need that one ace in your pocket and you can win on that alone.This is where the kata comes in. the kata is sort of like going down a list of throws for the black belt candidate to show that they actually have all the required knowledge and skills to perform various key techniques even if they dont necessarily use them.However in order for this to be worth anything they need to actually do the technique. So the uke is supposed to be non-resistsnt, but also not so compliant that they just throw themselves over whether the technique was done properly or not.And that's where this anecdote came in that after 25 minutes of kata demonstration one of the judges said "your uke jumped during sumi gaeshi so you fail"
>>4414The only real martial arts are:1) Muay Thai2) Kickboxing3) BJJ4) SamboEverything else is useless, and you're better off just going dancing.
>>10951>tyson said he regularly spars with people who can work him over, but choke up once they get in the ring.a lot of things in life really do just boil down to not giving a fuck
>>11434I will beat the fuck up any bearucrat in a 20 mile radius agrees to not sue me
As with any other martial art, it depends on who's teaching it.I studied Aikido 2 years under a sensei that hated the way the national federation taught Aikido so much he tried setting up an alternative organization. He mainly criticised how other sensei would instruct the uke to let the moves happen and, at most, to ukemi.The way I was taught, the uke needs to do his darnest to disrupt and resist his opponent. Just to point out how much he stressed this, all the nikkyou training we did was with the uke threatening you with live blades since that forced you to actually stop them from spinning or you'd get stabbed in the stomach. All of the flourishing and seemingly wacky movements are intentional limitations that together with the care you must take in not hurting the uke train you into actually learning the fundamentals of fighting. My sensei always said that if we were put in an actual fight, we weren't expected to use those moves but whatever we'd choose to do would be more effective because of the knowledge we got from Aikido.He was taught in Japan by O-Sensei's direct students, by the way.
>>11727>I dont actually base this on anything but if people keep repeating it on the internet then it must be true
>>11773>national federationyou mean aikikai? of what country?
>>11773sounds more reasonable than a lot of what I've seen. Aikikai did a great job of promoting aikido to the world, but the organizational groupthink is too damn high. Its become a silly dance from something that was a short while a martial art.
>>11749the lawsuit defeats the fighter
>>11627>if you (rightfully) don't count it as a branch of daito ryu aikijujitsuHow do you figure?Is this a "no true scottsman" thing?Sure, its like a weird eccentric cousin, but its still a branch in the family.
>>11353>Scholastic Wrestlers can have hundreds of matches. The stress/fear never goes away.In other words they fight eachother to lose the fear you tremendous retard
>>11928Can you fucking read? I said the fear never goes away. How did you take that to mean they fight each other to lose the fear? You're a fucking autist.
I messed around in a gym that practiced jujitsu, judo, aikido, and shotokan karate. I practiced for about 12 years before my instructor passed away. The thing about aikido is that it's not exactly great in a vacuum, but you can use its wrist throws and manipulate them into existing throws, or even supplement other submission locks. For example, if you hip throw someone, you naturally have an inclination to keep holding your opponents arm on the way down. Now many times you'd want do go into a quick arm bar, but you can torque the wrist while doing so, ideally within the first few moments the arm bar is being applied. The useful thing about aikido "throws" aren't the actual throws themselves, many who are remotely trained and resist a full aikido throw. Where it's useful is that you can the the aikido throw set up, and if it DOESN'T work, it usually puts you in an advantageous position both with your positioning and momentum, as well as often times provides a noticeable period in the fight that your opponent is off balance and more times than not unable to immediately retaliate against you due to his positioning relative to you. As someone mentioned earlier, it works wonders with traditional judo throws.The running joke in our gym was that it was the old bay of fighting styles; sucks by itself, but can amplify things to make them better.Spent 12 years in that gym, and about 8 in a boxing gym. our instructor expected us to train with other gyms and bring back what we learned in order to improve our own individual style, and even "ineffective" styles just for fun.There is almost always something in any style that can be made effective.
>>4414every martial art is a fraud now that you can easily get a gun and a knife. Maybe if Biden comes down hard on the 2nd though martial arts might be relevant outside of sporting events again
>>12229sounds fucking cool. I'm a little envious. doki doki
>>11807I'm bringing back the old /asp/ religionboxing/kickboxing/mauy thai + wrestling/judo/bjj/sambo
>>12316don't forget pipebombnever forget pipebomb
>>11868Unironically yes. its also what ended dueling as a cultural practice
>>12320based and well placed
>>11902I just mean that they're considered different martial arts, because morihei brought his personal studies far enough from jujutsu. the need itself for his son to sit down and give aikido a structure indicates that there was no common foundation for aikido to rest on
>>12321Sadly, reducing the pace of evolution - the culling of hotheaded egotistical fucks.
>>4414there is to main aspects of martial arts their effectiveness.there is not physical combat competition. that is where many in this list fail, their theories are no put to practice and they are not selected. many misconception are kept just by their appearance not their effectiveness. just like kung fu or akido, where many extravagant movements are not put to test.on the other side, the competition may require too many rules to keep it in acceptable, healthy and spectacle appearance. making it too far from a real combat making it. causing distortions; what you see in mma, and competitive taekendo and katate.for more example, kicking your opponent face when he is on the ground, touching the eyes, braking fingers, balls hits/squeeze, are self evident effective moves you will see in "no" martial arts.
>>9943Well, if i was a wrestler and encountered some loon with a big stick i'd rather walk the other way
>>4929>Im a wrestler who thought BJJ was bullshit.Why? Are you legit retarded? We've known it isn't for decades.
>>12229>The useful thing about aikido "throws" aren't the actual throws themselves, many who are remotely trained and resist a full aikido throw. Where it's useful is that you can the the aikido throw set up, and if it DOESN'T work, it usually puts you in an advantageous position both with your positioning and momentum, as well as often times provides a noticeable period in the fight that your opponent is off balance and more times than not unable to immediately retaliate against you due to his positioning relative to you.This is the real strength of aikido. Its some kind of impossibly high ideal to work as a pure stylist, but if you can do ANY part of the aikido move, You've left the other person open for a lot of shit both strike and takedown-wise.It really feels like something you were supposed to use to augment proficiency in another style.Like if you've been training so long that you're bored of it, you can add aikido as a higher thing to strive for.
>>9897and what happens if you clinch with an mma fighter? I'm sure that stick will be real handy in that situation
It's pretty much impossible to validate aikido anymore. Its reputation is so polluted by obvious woo-woo that even when skilled martial artists manage to pull out an effective technique, something that aikido would have if only by having common ancestry with judo and jujutsu, the typical MMAutist just says it was "bad/sloppy judo" or "coulda done that in wrestling."There's no way in 95% of the world to practice aikido in a manner that conditions you for live combat for reasons that have been discussed with varying degrees of tonal charity and nuance in every open discussion trying to dissect and analyze aikido.Just do it with something that undergoes regular stress testing and see how it can influence you or allow you to get creative. That's how the famous Ueshiba O-sensei taught it at his honbu anyhow: A finishing school for people who already knew very well how to fight.And to directly answer the very homosexual OP, no it's not the "biggest" fraud in martial arts. Systema, Krav, and various other "reality-based" stuntmant scams are infinitely worse not to mention the more obviously fake but still conniving shit that purports to be ninjutsu or any number of those schizo cults where people actually think they can throw chi balls.
>>10142That's a bad thing?