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File: karate.jpg (320 KB, 3200x1800)
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Is Karate a useless form of fighting?
>>
>>36734
It’s basically yoga for weebs and edgelords and single moms who need a break from their bratty kids
>>
>>36734
Jiu jitsu and boxing are the only forms of martial arts that work. Everything else is a meme
>>
>>36734
everything except bjj, muay thai and wrestling is basically useless
>>
cringe, take this fake shit to /xs/
>>
>>36734
No. There is no board for fighting stuff and ufc and more.
>>
>>36734
Yes, no fights are choreographed and karate "masters" get their shit pushed in in MMA
>>
>>36736
Judo?
>>
>>36740
Yeah like Wonderboy and Machida? Fuck outta here, you've never even been in a real fight in your life, fatty
>>
>>36742
>fatty
go push your projection elsewhere tons-a-fun
>>
>>36734
full contact karate is useful but most of that shit isnt
>>
>>36734
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=846CVGW7j14
/thread
>>
>>36734
Ufc is controlled, has roids, weight divisions, rules

Karate on some punk irl would work..
>>
>>36746
Any formal fight training would work on some random punk. But if two people that know what they’re doing get into a fight, the karate guy is just going to get taken down and pummeled
>>
>>36747
>>36746
Shush
>>36745
>>
>>36745
thats sik ty
>>
>>36736
both originate from island nations too, never realized that.
>>
>>36747
>>36747
>>36748
>>36749
>>36750
>>36749

Braizllains trannies.
>>
>>36748
hush now, baby boy.
>>
>>36751
boiling
>>
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>>36734
No.
>>
>>36754
yeah but thats silva. not a fair fight.
>>
>>36754
Vitor is such a fucking jobber
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>>36755
Cope elsewhere. You're killing the vibe
>>
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>>36734
nah
>>
>>36751
Those are the best ones
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>>36734
>is karate useless

First thing to understand is that karate is not a monolith there are many styles of it. Karate in general is not very good, because many parts of it are outdated training methods, but that doesn't mean there are not methods and techniques from karate that work. Watch some one like Stephen Thompson and you can see what elements of karate are truly effective, but that doesn't mean you have to buy the entire package of traditional kata training highblocks kiais etc.
>>
>>36734
No, the most people here that call it useless prob. didnt even train it once.

It has it weaknesses but for the normal goon from the street its def. enough if you train it for some years (if you train point fighting styles like shotokan that is). Its a good "base" martial art, teaching proper striking technique. Its big down side are the tons of styles where some are even just McDojo bullshit or many McDojo proclaiming they teach a style that should normally be good but they manage to turn it into poop.

If you are interested in pure striking, train MT or Kickboxing(full contct) and sharpen it up with boxing and maybe taekwando or karate kicks.

But no its not useless for fighting. Most styles like Shotokan need a bit of adapating for full contact and then work fine if not even great thanks to the sparring and timing they learned. Karates big downside is the overfocus on Kata; there are dojos that dont even do point sparring and do Kata all day. Even if these dojos can be legit dojos with good quality, the focus on Kata is too much and gives a wrong impression on fighting ability (who know fighting gets only improved by fighting and not weird shadowboxing/toolbox moveset). Its the reason why more and more styles pop up that ditch Kata and get more popular by the day.
>>
>>36736
>bjj and boxing

Mt, Kyokushin, Judo, Sambo and dutch Kickboxing would tend to disagree.

For that famous "street" an all round grappling style and boxing i would argue is the best combo.
>>
>>36740
Do you even watch MMA? Like any promotion that is not backyard level?
>>
>>36747
thats why you cross train in a grappling style
>>
>>36763
Most elements of Karate work somewhere (even fucking kata is useful for something) but i tend to agree that some elements are more useful then other (like Bunkai bullshit where i need to interpret a punch as a throw no matter what).
>>
>>36783
>like Bunkai bullshit where i need to interpret a punch as a throw no matter what

I am having flashbacks to that HEMA argument where a manual has no stabs because they were fucking illegal
>>
>>36734
I did taekwondo for like 6 years as a kid, got my ass handed to my by basically anybody who was larger than me.
after like 1 year of boxing I never lost a fight again, did boxing for like 10 years and I don't expect to lose a fight ever again. I genuinely feel like almost anybody better than me at fighting is a martial artist and isn't the type of cunt I'd have to get into a fight with
>>
>>36741
>>36778
judo is just advanced tripping people over
>>
>>36742
>Wonderboy
literally holds a black belt in kempo, American kickboxing and jujitsu and brown belt in BJJ.
>Machida
black belt in BJJ, trained at an MMA gym
great examples of the power of karate, retard
>>
>>36734
There are some forms of Karate that are basically MMA so no.
>>
>>36742
>Stephen Thompson and Lyoto Machida do well in MMA so it means that my glorified tag makes me a good fighter by proxy
>>
>>36828
You wont find anyone in modern mma who is just a black belt in bjj either retard
>>
>>36822
Did you spar often when you did Taekwondo?
>>
>>36736
Its wrestling and boxing you dingus
>>
>>36778
Don't forget the most deadly martial art; krav maga
>>
>>36870
off the top of my head Ngannou and Derrick Lewis both have a black belt in nothing
conor mcgregor only has a brown belt in BJJ and no other belts.
again, you're a retard plenty of MMA fighters have only done generic MMA and have no belts
>>
>>36881
not very much, but I did win a few minor tournaments
>>
>>36917
Your iq is literally too low to even argue with lol

ops question is

> Is Karate a useless form of fighting?

not

>Is Karate better than mma
>>
>>36917
Also

>conor mcgregor only has a brown belt in BJJ

Ya Connor Mcgregor the fighter who is only reknowned for striking and is a shit grappler is only known for his bjj brown belt. The point of the post was never about belts you dumb faggot. Machida could have no belt rank in karate it would not change whether or not he uses it.
>>
>>36823
So like wrestling but in a gi
>>
>>36828
What are you trying to prove here exactly?
>>
>>36828
American kickboxing is literally karate
>>
>>36926
Unless you're a pure okinawan karate fighter who's never seen an MMA cage you can't be called a karate specialist. Makes sense to me.
>>
>>36927
So is American Kempo. Technically Kempo is a hybrid style with various influences depending on who's the instructor but 99% of the time in America it just means karate.
>>
>>36929
Thats fine but who the concept of pure martial artist in MMA is ded since ufc 1 >>36929
>>
>>36929
>as long as I change the definitions to be unreasonable enough, I don't have to accept that I'm wrong
>>
>>36929
>Unless you're a pure okinawan karate fighter

You know Okinawa does not exist in a time distortion? No such person exists.
>>
>>36975
Karate dojos aren't like boxing gyms; the quality is all over the place and trends toward below average. Treating a handful of good gyms as representative of karate training as a whole is itself unreasonable.
>>
>>36991
Thinking a practice is invalid because you don't have any good instances near you is retarded.
>>
>>37021
If most gyms by the odds are not producing competent fighters, that is a valid critique of the practice and a reason to encourage someone to seek out a style with a better pedigree or quality control.
>>
>>37035
Yah I wouldn't even encourage someone to take kyokushin over kickboxing, unless it was cheaper. But the thing is the op question isn't should I do karate, its is karate useless and the answer to that is objectively no.
>>
>>37035
Restating your point doesn't make it sound any less retarded to me.
Your complete lack of intellectual curiosity is disgusting.
>>
>>37037
But karate as taught in most dojos is close to useless.

>kickboxing
Ironically, K-1 and American kickboxing were started by karate guys who were upset that the sport was moving away from producing competent fighters.
>>
>>37042
I did karate. It didn't make me a particularly competent striker.

My hands were subpar. My ability to infight was nonexistent. I had a decent roundhouse and front kick, but that was it. I had to unlearn and relearn a bunch of shit from karate.
>>
>>36934
>>36975
>>36989
I was being sarcastic. Its retarded.
>>
>>36734
There are so many different styles of karate and even within those styles different teachers do different things so its hard to say karate is useless. Better to say there isn't much consistency, so you have to look from dojo to dojo to see what you're getting.
>>
>>37047
Nice anecdote. I'm glad you went to a place that sucked. Thats totally relevant to me.
Did you find it in a mall, or was it in a large shed?

Good places are hard to find. Given that theres no quality control, its buyer beware. Make sure a place works for your purposes before just falling into "trust mr authority" mode.

Zoomers are so goddamn retarded.
>>
>>37043
>K-1 and American kickboxing were started by karate guys

I know this lol. Problem when talking about karate is that it can cover the entire spectrum of martial arts since it was such a marketable term for so long an had little quality control.
>>
>>37056
Fuck off
>>
>>36991
In America perhaps, in Europe most Karate styles are completely fine and work as inteded. Dunno why you are so hellbent on denoucing Karate, it improved my footwork a ton and my punching and kicking became much more fluid thanks to it.
>>
>>37065
I did shotokan karate for ~5 years until I was 15; I competed some as well.

I learned more about striking in 6 months of training MMA after college than I did in those 5 years of karate (obviously I knew I was going to ragdolled by wrestlers, since I didn't know anything about wrestling). And I would say that my experience is pretty typical, because several other gym members did karate when they were younger.

>Make sure a place works for your purposes before just falling into "trust mr authority" mode

If you don't know how to fight, you probably don't know enough to make that call.
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>>37115
You know if you started at age 10 your parents picked that place to be a safe daycare for you not to learn how to fight. Also not to assume to much about you, but often parents who start their kid in martial arts do so since their kid is an unconfident loser who cannot hang in team sports. If you were picking a place as an adult I would assume you could identify where will teach actual fighting unless you are genuinely low IQ. This will necessarily preclude most karate places, but again this thread is not

>is karate generally good
>is karate better than muay thai

Its

>Is Karate useless
>>
>>37115
>Dropped off at a mcdojo
>this speaks for all of karate, even ignoring karate masters that did well in mma for example

this is nearly on the same level as that goju ryu retard
>>
>>36734
Im going to try Karate classes. Ive seen the types of people who take them. I need a little catharsis and sparring looks fun. Its the only thing in my area too.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMHl7NhC3Ko
>>
>>36822
Have you considered you might just be bad.

I fought regionally in some MMA fight, TKD background, and did fine once I got some grappping instruction. Never had a problem beating boxers.
>>
>>36742
Also Igor Vovchanchyn and Bas Rutten from the wild early days of MMA.
>>
>>36736
>>36737
>>36735
The absolute fucking cringe holy shit get off this board
>>
>ITT: American opinions

Beyond worthless
>>
FYI, Kickboxing is Karate. Everyone knows Kickboxing is effective.

Retarded Amerimutts.
>>
>>36866
This pretty much. Even in the sport of MMA, amongst other professional fighters, they're outliers. You are not, and never will be, Lyoto Machida or Wonderboy.
>>
>>39534
This is on the same level of "dont start training for mma if you are over 25 or try to get into competitions"

Shut the fuck up and let people atleast try to achieve something instead of telling them here they will never amount to something
>>
>>36822
You do realize that when you're a kid in a dojo/dojang, the adults treat you with kid gloves, right? Testing for your black belt as an adult is significantly harder than doing it when you're like fucking 10 because the other black belts don't feel as bad for knocking you out in sparring or making you repeat a kata or something until you throw up
>>
>>37047
>My hands were subpar. My ability to infight was nonexistent.
That sounds like a problem with how you personally train and not the art itself, Karate didn't make you a shit fighter, it was your lack of perspective and your unwillingness to go outside the box
>>
>>37115
Read >>40348
>>
>>36734
Its has many outdated and superfluous things but nevertheless its good vs untrained person.
Vs trained in martial arts person it doesn't do well
>>
>>40365
>trained in martial arts person it doesn't do well
I've had a Karate teacher hit me with fucking step-through haymakers to show me that any dumb shit will work as long as you have the timing for it, I also had a TKD black belt throw nothing but C-punches and hit me with them every time because I mentioned offhand that I didn't think they'd work IRL. I'm not saying absolutely everything in Karate is conducive to fighting, but saying the art itself falls short against somebody trained isn't true
>>
>>39534
You are also not and will never be Matt Hughes or Randy Couture. What is the bearing of this fact on the effectiveness of wrestling.
>>
>>40494
I think the idea here is:
Average shlub + wrestling = competent grappler
Promising athlete + wrestling = Randy Couture
Average shlub + karate = pussy who can't fight
Promising athlete + karate = Stephen Thompson

In essence, karate seems to enjoy success only with guys who are phenoms. While at the average skill and genetic potential tier it bombs out spectacularly.

That is the argument that I've seen many times online. I don't necessarily agree with it.
>>
>>40551
The reason Karate is looked down upon by other martial arts is 2 reasons. McDojos that completely ruined every basis of that martial art (mostly the case in america and some arabic countries) and hte second is the lack of even point sparring in some dojos and training Kata all day. Non full contact styles have devloped a weird relationship with sparring and this thread would not exists if light sparring like in Kickboxing would be a common thing throughout- but most Karatekas never cross train and live in a bubble with their martial art. Which is quite sad bc Karate is a great base for striking if you have a trained under someone somewhat competent and certifiied by japanese associations.

Most Karateka also need to put a bit more research in their own style, it would help them.
Wrestling works so well bc its constant sparring and training technique.
Now i tell you the key to good martial arts practice: weekly sparring and technique training.
>>
>>40369
For this the UFC was invented. Check the early years for Karatekas.
AFAIK BJJ proved to be more effective than striking. But being capable to do both (grappling and striking) beats the rest. So take a striking discipline (Muay Thai, Boxing, Karate) and a grappling one (BJJ, Wrestling, Judo) if you want 'effectiveness'.

Also what >>40567 says. Do some sparring.
>>
>>40551
>Average shlub + wrestling = competent grappler

I mean not really. There were plenty of people in the wrestling team who I would not describe as competent grapplers at all. Its the kind of thing where alot of people do it but only the people who place at at least state level are particularly "competent".
>>
>>40572
I'm in Kajukenbo, I already am a mixed fighter
>>
>>36734
The katas are useless. The punching and kicking aren't, but can be vastly improved using a boxers footwork. If karate evolved into something like boxing, but also using kicks, then it'd be useful. We could call it boxy kicky or kickboxing or something.
>>
>>39534
where's the akido, wing chun and silat guys in MMA then?

karate is an effective style that is rarely taught well and isn't popular among adults, which is why the number of fighters using it is low, not because you have to be a genetic freak who makes it possible by reason of skill alone
>>
Chuck Liddell trained Kempo Karate.
>>
>>40812
It was Kajukenbo, I dunno why GM Hackleman insists on calling it Hawaiian Kenpo
>>
>>36893
Real talk
>>
>>36734
No. Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson has been in the UFC for 9 years now. He has proven that Karate done right is deadly.
>>
>>39534
This is cope. Fighters using the style at the highest level of competition proves that it is a viable form of combat when done correctly.
>>
>>39534
Okay, but I see more Thaifags larping as Saenchai that I do Krottyfags pretending to be Wonderboy
>>
>>39534
lmao not at all. the UFC is nothing but talented fighters. if you come in with a shit style that isn't suited to actual fighting, you're going to get heemed on a second. their presence shows the validity of traditional karate as a method, and their rarity is a testament to the watering down of karate in the 80s onwards.
it also is explainable by perceptions too. people looking to get into MMA, at least out if the eastern bloc, focus bjj/wrestling for grappling to the exclusion of judo. judo is still a very legitimate and very effective grappling form, but it's not fashionable.
>>
>>40863
Why do UFCfaggots think that UFC is the end all be all of martial arts? I've seen articles of high level competitors being stabbed and glassed in bar/street fights by unathletic schlubs
>>
>>40901
Because the notion of this board is that the average joe needs to be transformed into MMA Gods by the martial arts they practice otherwise its preceived as useless. Im not talking about AIkido, Wing Chun and Krav but many Martial artist forget that MMA is its own enviroment entirely ( i say that as an MMA/All-Rounder fag)
>>
>>40901
>I've seen articles of high level competitors being stabbed and glassed in bar/street fights by unathletic schlubs
This is 100% cope. Show me an article of a ranked UFC/Bellator/1FC fighter losing a bar or street fight to an "unathletic schlub"

For hand to hand combat MMA/Valetudo promotions are the end all be all in terms of seeing if a martial art is effective. If you wanna pull out a fucking pistol then yeah shit obviously changes, but since this thread is discussing if karate is effective bringing up instances of it working at the highest levels of hand to hand combat are obviously relevant. If you wanna bring up swords and shit go back to your /HEMA/ containment thread.
>>
My cousin is a multiple time Kyokoshin Karate champion in my country, Kazakhstan. 2 years ago 3 of us were walking in downtown Paris after a party, it was like 2 am and 3 guys, 2 black, one huge arab, approach us and started to pick on us. Long story short fight broke out and my cousin dropped all of them in less than a minute. Dropped arab with a straight to the chest lol. It's fucking awe inspiring to see in real life. So, no, it's not useless.
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>>40971
>Kazakhstan

You know excatly his fighting power isnt coming from Kyokushin
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>>40957
All you need to do is punch "[martial art] practitioner stabbed/killed" into duckduckgo and you'll have the sources you requested
>>
>>40957
Oh yeah post body too
>>
>>40957
are you that nigga from the aikido thread who keeps ranting on Hema
>>
>>40957
>are the end all be all in terms of seeing if a martial art is effective

Well somewhat, but also no. You are never going to be as tough as these guys the creme will rise to the top in any competitive format like this, so using how they fight as a metric isn't really that useful. Better is a full contact environment of absolute trash cans fighting each other lmao.
>>
>>40957
BJ Penn got heemed in a street fight not too long ago. Downed in one punch.

Now you might say that BJ is a washed up drug addict who's chin has been thoroughly cracked. And I'd say you're right. Still, no one is immune to the puncher's chance.
>>
lmao so much cope

>>41051
The point isn't that you are going to be as good as them the point is seeing if the techniques taught by the art still work at the highest level. Which they do for Karate.
>>41034
Gay.
>>41039
No.
>>41094
The last time BJ Penn won a fight was over a decade ago ago. He went on a 10 fight losing streak that lasted 11 years and is in his 40s now. Comparing current BJ to a top level fighter is laughable.
>>41033
Except that would bring up some random ass dudes and not one of the best fighters on the planet.
>>
Well it's been effective for me. I've been in three fights in my life and each of them occurred back when karate, and it was shorin-ryu rather than MMA-approved kyokushin, was my only exposure to training and conditioning to fight. Could I beat a cage fighter? Probably not, but I'll absolutely mog on any random punk who wants to play the knockout game with me at Target.
>>
>>40901
it's the best litmus test of a style's effectiveness. it has a loose ruleset and people who dedicate their lives to training fighting each other with full contact. there's not really a better way of seeing what works and what doesn't.

at the end of the day, if you have a gun you're winning every fight, sure. no one is denying that. but this thread is about whether or not karate is effective in combat, and it plainly is if taught well
>>
>>36870
demian maia, gilbert burns, garry tonon, robert whitaker, dustin porrier, ryan hall, tony fergesun.....

are you sure you know what youre talking about?
>>
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>>41504
>robert whitaker

>Goju Ryu karate black belt
>Hapkido black belt
He's a karate chad through and through.
>>
>>41033
>All you need to do is punch "[martial art] practitioner stabbed/killed" into duckduckgo and you'll have the sources you requested
And yet somehow you failed to do just that. It's almost as if you're wrong and you know it.
>>
>>41504
All of those guys train striking and wrestling and as someone else has pointed out Robert literally has multiple black belts, so even if you missed the point of my post by a mile you are still wrong. In other words you are retarded.
>>
>>36734
Yes if you're fighting a fighter. Karate is good mindful body control exercise.
>>
You can talk about karate when you name a single noteworthy american karateka.
>>
>>41589
>american

Again
In Europe Karate is rarely as washed down as in the USA
>>
>>41586
Tell that to a Kyokushin guy kek
>>
>>41597
That's what I mean.
>>
>>41589
Willie Williams
William Oliver
Benny Urquidez
Bill Superfoot Wallace
Joe Lewis
>>
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>>40971
Off topic, but would you be so kind as to tell me how is life in Kazakhastan? Know next to nothing of the country, but for some reason it looks very interesting with what seems a mish-mash of many cultures and the nomadic history.
>>
it's fun :)
>>
>>36734
depends on your focus, are you trying to be competitive or have good self defense? then no it sucks for the most part, if you want some sort of spiritual experience and clarity its great for that along with other marital arts but personally I think you can seek that in other ways
>>
>>41141
Its a completely unrealistic ruleset.
Duel- style fights are a particular type that requires both players to have symmetrical goals and actively punishes other methods of resolving the situation.

In daily lives, these kinds of situations can be easily avoided by keeping distance.

The only things worth training from a self defense pov is mental/emotional evenness, general adaptive body skill, situational awareness, and unwavering presence to the moment at all times in life.

Its funny how almost all traditional martial arts focus on this, but no sport combat does.

What is commonly called "fighting skill" isnt even on the list. If you are in a face-off type fight, you are already losing the self defense game badly.
>>
>>42154
I broadly agree but we're talking about whether karate is effective as a fighting style and not those other factors you're talking about or whether it's good for self defence (as an aside, I think anyone training martial arts for self defence is a mong).
the UFC and MMA generally is the most loose set of rules for a competition attracting top athletes. as I said, looking through the lens of the fight itself, its the best way to tell if a style is effective in a fight.

karate is used effectively in MMA, and so it is an effective fighting style.
>>
>>41094
BJ Penn literally let the guy hit him, he pointed to his chin and let the guy clobber him right on the money, of course just training MMA won't help you with that
>>
>>42286
you made me go watch it again lmao

bj actually hung his chin out like he was expecting that guys punch to bounce off his face.
>>
>>36734
It depends on where you learn I suppose. I used to spar with a young guy who did karate/ tae kwon do for about 6-8 years and I would fuck him up after only 6 months of boxing. He never did any contact sparing until he came to our gym, so I believe that would be the deciding factor on if an art is effective or not
>>
>>42282
>generally is the most loose set of rules for a competition

Fights do not have a loose set of rules.
All fights except between absolute schizos are socially mediated and motivated.

The gracies saw this early on. The real battle is not the fight itself, it is the manipulating of the circumstance of the fight. The fight at that point is just a silly distraction.
>>
>>42353
Karate guys often catch up quickly after they learned to keep there hands at their face once they are in close range
>>
>>42396
what's the better way of testing a style's fighting effectiveness then you fucking autist
that's right there isn't one
>>
>>42421
>being this one-track
>calls ME the autist

I bet you get tricked easily.
>>
>>36822
Shouldnt have done korean shit in the first place
>>
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>>37974
Cringe all you want, you'll be alone doing it while everyone else laughs at your "kata" and "muh warrior history"
>>
>>42556
As someone who cross trains, Karate is really not bad at all, its training is very useful for learning body mechanics and the footwork is useful too and can throw your opponent off if done right. I would understand if you would argue against this like AIkido but Karate has flaws that can be ironed out relatively easy
>>
>>42456
he got tricked by the gracie circus at the very least, we can see that
>>
>>42456
yeah righto mate
>>
>>36734
The last time i saw people saying that Karate was useless was uneducated americans on sherdog who never trained the art and assumed Aikido like training for Karate. I dunno what the fuck the train over the pond bit here its a valid style that just isnt as hard as MT style training with a lot of repetition of the basics. Kinda disheartening to see so many threads dismiss it as Yoga esque bs on 4channel
>>
>>36734
Karate isn't that bad it's just kata that's usless. Most Karate styles still do kata so I guess most Karate is shit
>>
>>40756
This throw away the Kata and Karate is a perfectly fine style of kick boxing
>>
>>42286
No amount of traning can save you from being a retard PJ is a perfectly good example of that
>>
>>43108
you guys clearly don't know about the story of kickboxing then, becuase taht's what kinckboxing actually is (dutch/japanese and american variants)
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>>43106
>Kata immediately ruins the style
Only if they practice Kata all day. Of its kike 25% of the overall training its still a fone style
>>
>>43272
>Of its kike 25% of the overall training its still a fone style

*If ots like 25% *fine
Thanks i button
>>
if they allow full contact sparring (preferably with head punches but thats rare) then yeah it'd be useful anything less and probably close to useless. Even if you learned the point fighting variant ull be able to keep your distance against untrained persons. As long as you're realistic about your capabilities it wont be a net negative





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