this is where kickboxing came from, when K-1 started it was an outlet for karate practitioners from different styles to compete against each other in full contact, the founder being from seidokaikan himself
it just works out that doing the gi and culture aspects of karate aren't necessary so if someone had the goals of simply doing tournament fighting they didn't bother with all the pageantry and just practiced the techniques. and wala kickboxing was born

I'll point out, muay thai isn't kickboxing it's something else. Kickboxing is a karate based discipline

>>166779
So this means karate is tai chi levels of worthless? Very sad…

>>166778
One of the main things Karate has going for it is the lack of head strikes. Not everyone wants to get CTE.

If that's not your thing then fuck off and do MMA, leave other people alone to do their thing.

>>166782
>One of the main things Karate has going for it is the lack of head strikes. Not everyone wants to get CTE.
That's a funny way of saying, "Im a pussy".

>karate is for plebitors
>MMA is for anons

>>166782
>much CTE
Do you think every training day consists of people hitting each other in the face with the hardest haymakers they can make? Fucking retard. There is zero excuse for a MARTIAL art not to train for the real possibility of a head punch.

>>166782
kyokushin isn't karate proper

>>166780
basically said exactly the opposite of that

>>166788
How so? Why would you train Karate over Kickboxing? In his post, he said that it takes out the discipline's useless/impractical elements.

>>166789
no its saying people say karate isn't effective but its explicitly the foundation of modern combat sports
just like how it doesn't stop being jiujitsu or wrestling because you're doing it in MMA, it doesn't stop being karate either

>>166784
Do some cost benefit analysis retard. If you’re just a hobbyist with no intention of fighting professionally is it really beneficial to risk brain damage just so some retard on the internet doesn’t call you a pussy? That’s up to them to decide.

Maybe when you’re over 30 and being a retard with something to prove starts to catch up with you you’ll see the wisdom in what the above anon was talking about. As much as I love judo I really wish all my joints didn’t fucking crack every time I move.

>>166785
They do, but they don't do it in kumite or competition sparring.

>>166778
Because the target audience for karate is weak losers who need a confidence boost but don't want to put in the hard work.
They profit off of geeks who want to feel tough but don't want to put in the time or pain it takes to learn a practical martial art like muay thai, boxing, BJJ or wrestling.
That's why you see a huge amount of geeks at karate dojos.

>>166844
Lol @ describing bjj
>Learn this and you too can strangle all those bullies you could never dream of beating in a fight

>>166778
They actually did. Nippon Kempo was developed in 1932 and the founder also did judo hence why groundfighting was permitted in practice. Nippon Kempo has their students wear a face mask, body armor, a cup, and gloves while they're allowed to punch, kick, elbow, knee, throw, takedown, submissions, and groundwork. They pre-dated Kudo by several decades and you can make an argument they were proto-MMA.

>>166782

you cannot PUNCH the head but nothing forbits you to land a fucking spinning hook kick to the dome.
I ve been on the reciving end of both and belive me id rather get punched in the head 10 times rather than getting a good kick to the head, different ball game

>>166870
Yeah but it’s also 10 times harder to land a spinning hook kick properly
>>166779
Kickboxing is like karate but it naturally evolves closer to Muay Thai.

>>166785
You'll get more brain damage from recurret medium sparring than from getting knocked out every once in a while. Volume > intensity for CTE. Once you start training boxing, kickboxing, muay thai, etc. even half seriously you have about 10 years of shelf life, then you'll start to really feel the weight of the accumulated damage.

>>166870
The no head punch was mostly because Oyama didn't want to use boxing gloves and bare-knuckle would turn every practice into a gorefest with broken hands and cut up faces.

>>166786
Wtf? /xs/ really is the worst blue board

>>167035
yes, form follows function with these things
such as how strict muay thai would be effective in a kickboxing format but in MMA it becomes more loose and freestyle
even strikers that have no formal karate training in MMA will often naturally fall in to a pseudo karate style because the thing karate is best at above the others is mobility and that's an asset you need when you're dealing with wrestlers shooting at you

>>167035
> Kickboxing is like karate.

Knowing you don't know about kickboxing or martial arts history in a single phrase, lmao fucking faggot.

Its a mixture of Karate and Myau Thai that used to serve as a rigged fighting sport for Karate guys to try and prove themselves against the Thais who kept beating them up.

>>167163
Why they always get beaten by the thais?

>>167163
If thais were good at fighting youd see them outside of Thailand, you don't because they aren't. They're a race of terminal manlets and ladyboys that couldn't beat anyone

>>167179
>you don't because they aren't
But I do? Half the dudes in One fighting in kickboxing or MT rules matches are Thai.

>>167165
>Whats the 1964 3 vs 3 match, Andy Hug or Francisco Filho
>>167179
>What is K1, Glory or ONE

>>167218
> Andy Hug or Francisco Filho
They banned elbows and clinch

>>167349
>agree to fight under a ruleset you're not used to
>lose because you're not used to the rules
>complain about the rules nobody forced you to agree to
Tale as old as time

>>166779
>denies the influence of boxing on kickboxing
>MT isn't kickboxing even though it reinvented the sport
Embarrassing post
>>166782
>noooo not in the face, not in face!
Kek

>>167580
Head damage is no joke anon, nobody should be mocked from wanting to.avoid it. My old boxing coach had a very successful career (35 wins and over 10 1st round KOs) and was only knocked out once throughout his 10 years career (twice if you count the TKO that destroyed his eye mid match) and always made a point of not going hard in training unless it was a fight camp. Even then his speech was a jumbled mess and sometimes he'd just space out during practice out of nowhere, like we'd be doing mitt work and he'd just freeze up for a few seconds with that 1000 yard stare before coming back and continuing out drills.

>>167585
Yes, you should be mocked because unless you are a Boxer with a long fight career like that old man cte is a non issue. Its just an excuse by hobbiest that don't want to actually any meaningful training

>>167587
>old man
Nigger he was 31 when he retired due to losing his eye. In places like Thailand fighters retire in their mid 20s because they can't take it anymore and I know more than one kickboxer or thai fighter that never stepped into the ring but could already feel the accumulated brain damage in their late 20s.

>>167587
>>167588
I went through trade school with a guy who has memory issues as a result of taking a few amateur fights. Granted he was a heavyweight but leave it to /xs/ to unironically argue that doing a sport where the goal is to punch people in the head isn’t risky for your fucking brain.

>>167588
>>167592
I've competed in boxing and MT with no CTE, where as you guys wouldn't even to do basic sparing against nobodies. The cope and seethe of scrubs means absolutely nothing to me

>>167593
Don’t worry anon the whole board thinks your tough and cool

>>167593
Ngl, you are a level above that guy that called me a faggot bc i took a break from training for 2 months bc of a knee injury. Absolultey brain damaged in all regards. Spar like you fight more then 3 times a week and you will probably cry about your shitty brain function in your 40s here

>>167592
What the FUCK were the refs doing that a few amateur fights were enough to give him brain issues? For fuck's sake they're not even fighting for money, stop that shit as early as possible.

>>167606
I have no idea, I wasn’t there. He did tell me his last fight ended in him being knocked completely unconscious so that’s probably was a factor.

>>167598
t. seething nofights

>>167593
>no CTE
Obviously you haven't been diagnosed with CTE because you're still alive and dissection is the only way to diagnose it
We'll see when you're 50 if the early onset dementia starts to roll in

>>167587
>>167592
Zoomers are completely obsessed with CTE as excuse not to do the combat part of combat sports. It's the new "I'm too deadly to spar" cope

>>167623
How is it a cope? I do martial arts, I’m willing to accept the risk of getting hurt. God knows I have been hurt. It’s not a “cope” to say you don’t want to box because there’s a very real risk of brain damage you punch drunk retard.

>>167623
you're the kind of retard that doesn't drain cauliflower ear or use the cervical pad on the bar when you do squats because its for pussies. because you think having unnecessary injuries makes you tough
lemme guess you don't wear a helmet on a bike either? loser

>>166786
Yes, Kyokushin is better. Because it's easier to learn to add head strickes to your gameplan than to get used to real contact after years of sparring without throwing an effective strike

>>166784
lmao enjoy your room temperature IQ

>>166870
taking constant small punches to the head is worse for you over time than eating a jodan mawashi once in a while

>>167349
clinching is cope. learn to wrestle faggot

>>166778
Technically Kudo and some Kenpo styles do that.
The good Kyokushin dojos dedicate time to K-1 training.
They just don't cope by wearing giant gloves and actually condition their hands and learn good guard and footwork

>>167633
I'm not sure what kyokushin has done to warrant this undeserved reputation as being some kind of great fighting style aside from having their own competitions with the absolutely most fucktarded ruleset anyone has ever come up with

>>167613
Its always the weakest that bark the loudest kek

>>167626
>>167634
>>167643
Full swing back to the tcm/tma copes.

>>167640
Full contact, no gloves, great at conditioning, good foundation for learning more advanced skill sets.

IFK holds degular open tournaments anon, feel free to sign up and get your shit pushed in

>>167657
>Full contact
No head punches so it's observably not
>no gloves
In addition to unwrapped ungloved hands having considerably less impact force than wrapped ones
The thick gi offers more protection to the body than wearing gloves does because it dispurses impact across a large surface
>conditioning
So is cardio kick, unless you meant body conditioning which literally isn't real. Getting hit doesn't make you better at taking hits you can't inoculate yourself to blunt force the way you can against poison. You can't shoot yourself with a .22 and worked your way up to larger bullets
>good foundation for learning more advanced skill sets.
It lacks the most foundational qualities of fighting which is distance management, controlling space, footwork, and defensive skills
They just stand in the pocket like retards and wing body shots at each other with their hands down
WKF shit can be more readily adapted into effective fighting because at least there's a workable foundation in movement and spacial control

It would be idiotic for me to sign up and do a sport I don't practice the same way I'd never take a boxing match. The rules would limit what I'm allowed to do and then they declare themselves the winner
MMA or bust

>>167663
Several Kyokushin guys now fight with great success in Bas Rutten's Karate Comat promo, with full stricking including punches to the face.
You can't inoculate from damage, but you can learn correct breathing, core development, and movement to take way less damage.
>the thick gi protects you
my brother in christ it just clothes, not to mention that it's a fraction of the thickness of a Judo gi and offers zero protection from anything.
Space control and distance management is learned in any free sparring scenario.
As someone who bounces between standard Kyokushin and full stricking, adding head punches to your gameplan take a month to adapt and then you're golden.
If you don't like the rules, just visit a dojo and offer shinken shobu rules (full striking and grappling), see how that pans out for you

>>167665
>offer shinken shobu rules (full striking and grappling), see how that pans out for you
They will literally die
Even worse if we wear gis because then I can do all the bulkshit that comes with that too
I'd be tempted to ask them not to wear one just to give them a sporting chance

>>167666
Make sure to report back from the ER lol

>>167650
I’m the first poster you quoted. Unless you consider judo tma (which I guess some people might) you’re completely off Base.

>>167665
>Bas Rutten's Karate Comat promo
Why is he behind that, again? Isn't Bas a Dutch Kickboxer? Sure, that has roots in Kyokushin and Bas did make his breakthrough in MMA fighting in Japan, but why is he running a Karate promotion?

Also, they need to drop the CGI background, they're pretty distracting and unnecessary, the one season they did earlier on in which it was just a plain black background was the best scenario. Their pit is a cool idea though, the slanted walls give fighters nice options.

>>167650
We get it, you are a massive faggot farming you's

>>167668
You're under the impression that karate is going to overcome the combined force of striking and grappling?

>>167705
>the combined force of striking and grappling?
...which is what Karate is.

>>167705
I have the benefit of having trained and sparred in a variety of rule set from point karate to Kudo, comming from a Kyokushin background that carried me hard

>>167690
He's a fan of Oyama, likes Kyokushin, and was good friends with Jon Bluming.
I don't think you need to be an ordained priest of Karate to make a promotion.
I also like the token-based voting system

>>167663
>No head punches so it's observably not
Than full contact sports don't exist
>The thick gi
>in karate
LMAO, you never did judo. Also jackets in combat sambo are even havier

>>167663
>>Full contact
>No head punches so it's observably not
Full contact sports are sports where you allowed to exert your full power into someone. Even rugby is full contact sport. Boxing doesn't have kicking to legs, it doesn't mean it's not full contact

Daily reminder that all you karate and ai kido geeks are spergs with no practical skills.
Go learn muay thai or jiu jitsu.

>>167710
It wishes it was
I had walked into judo after doing karate for 10 years thinking it would be fine because I have some experience! We do some takedowns and submissions in karate too so I'm not expecting to be great but I at least know a little bit
Wrong, so completely embarrassingly wrong. Everything from karate was wrong ineffective bullshit

And the same thing happened when I sparred a guy that did muay Thai, I figured it would be fine, we spar all the time, "full contact" even
I got blasted in the face so many fucking times, I'm glad he was a gentleman and it was just friendly and not a fight. I think maybe I landed 1 jab the entire time
Certainly that must've been a fluke though and he was really good. Nope, every time I tried to spar someone it ended the same, I kept getting hit and could barely touch them

Know what all this fucking karate got me? I looked really good hitting focus mits and a bag, couldn't fight for shit though
Turns out doing hundreds of push ups while getting kicked in the belly and situps with a med ball getting dropped on you doesn't make you good at fighting

>>167779
You're just bad at Karate, bro. Plenty of people are able to transition from it to other styles with minimal acclimation.

>>167785
Not him but karate "throws" are cringe and suck. Also, when was last time when you perform this drills at your shitty karate club and how often do you perform them?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcCWRbcUK6s&ab_channel=JudoTraining

>>167785
Typical cultist mind set
"Karate didn't fail you, you failed karate"
It's weird because ever since I stopped doing karate I've become pretty darn good, so karate was the x-factor holding me back

It makes me sad when I think about how good I could've been if I didn't waste all that time learning something completely ineffective

>>167796
>train at a McDojo
>complain about not being well-trained

>>167805
>McDojo
That's what all of them are

Nobody else needs to do mental gymnastics to try and justify their validity. It just works

>>167086
>breaking your hand
Just don't punch with all your force like a fucking idiot. The English figured out how to fight on a daily basis and not bust your knuckles open back in the good old prizefighting days.

>>167823
They also create a whole ass stance to circunvent that issue and avoided headstrikes like the plague.

>>167796
You should tell GSP, Francisco Filho, Andy Hug, Machida, Womderboy, Momotaro, Aghayev, etc. that they're Karate background was literal unusable trash trash.

>>167871
Its useless with those people. Watch as he will claim that they would have risen even higher with MT/KB training or were talented enoug to rise to fame despite Karate keeping them down

>>167587
>>167623
Nailed it

>>167875
correct, imagine how good they could be without punching the air in front of a mirror and doing kata for all those years

>>167893
You know, starting out in kung-fu and then seriously doing MT, afterwards I was able to understand and even excute (some) concepts of kung-fu that I never would have been able to otherwise. So it's not necessarily useless if you have a good foundation.

>>167871
>Momotaro
all of his training after age 10 was in kickboxing and Muay Thai
>Aghayev
Karateka that fights another karatekas under karate rules, mindblowing
>Womderboy
Started kickboxing at 15, father is professional kickboxer
>Machida
Literally trained everything - boxing, muay thay, bjj, sumo
>Andy Hug
Kyokushin, fought in kickboxing, not MMA
>Francisco Filho
Kyokushin, fought in kickboxing, not MMA
>GSP
Finixhed training kyokushin at 12 and started training boxing, wrestling, bjj, muay thay.

And funny enough, not a single le based deadly goju ryuka.

>>167805
There is no boxing or muay thay or kickboxing McDojos, interesting, how that happens?

>>167893
Karate gave me a much more refined technique that i only found on that level in Boxing. Most MT gyms were decent but didnt even scratch that level of technique polish. Espically my front kick was honed in Karate, not MT. Its fine if you think its uselss but if that would be the case we would have an Aikido or Wing Chun tier situation where these people with that background fight in MMA and just perform very shitty even with a year of cross training.

>>167917
McDojos are mostly an american issue, they are much rarer in Europe and Asia. Fullcontact also filters people that dont want to train hard but want a quick black belt. I would also argue that belts also have a thing to do with this, as we see some McDojo BJJ places pop up albeit much much less then No Contact Martial Arts.

>>167894
>I was able to understand and even excute (some) concepts of kung-fu
Like what?
>seriously doing MT
How often do you compete, what's your score?

>>167916
>Kyokushin, fought in kickboxing, not MMA
What do you think Kyokushin is?

>>167916
LMAO, karate starts working only if you drop it as child as soon as possible

>>167585
You're scared. It's obvious

>>167634
Karate fags are always looking for cowardly ways to cope with the fact that they are beta males, and always have that longing desire to feel superior.

>hur hur you will have cte if you do that sport I'm afraid to do!

Absolutely pathetic.

>>167961
You're not superior just because you choose to train in a more dangerous way to emulate a level of sport you will never participate in or make money from. You aren't proving anything to anyone.

>>167961
>You're scared. It's obvious
You know what? You got me. I am afraid of having my life quality deteriorate rapidly and have limitations to my capacity to perceive and interact with my surroundings by the time I'm only 60. I am afraid of accumulating damage to my body and be forced to give up on something I love after practicing it for just 10 or 15 years. I am afraid of putting my life on the hands of retarded refs and corners that like to let fights drag out WAAAY past the point of reason just because they decide to treat an amateur fight I'm fucking paying to partake in like it was a world title match.

Martial arts are a sport, a hobby, shit you do becauseyou have fun. At the very most a short lived and poor paying profession that's gonna chew you up and spit your ass when it's done with you. You're really not special because you're willing to risk your longevity and quality of life over something trivial and meaningless like combat sports.

>>167947
Stuff like parying/trapping, and some unorthodox striking you might still see in Sanda.
>How often do you compete
I'm old and my competition days are long over.

>>167943
Yeah all those refined techniques like punching straight from the arm with no hip movement. How could MuayThai ever hope to compete?

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>>167977
>Yeah all those refined techniques like punching straight from the arm with no hip movement
As much as I like dunking on krotty fags that’s not how they’re taught to punch

>>167977
God you are retarded. Stop posting

>>167916
>Karateka that fights another karatekas under karate rules, mindblowing
Karate Combat is just kickboxing with minimal grappling, it's pretty different from his WKF background.

>>167580
>denies the influence of boxing on kickboxing
Which is huge. This idea that actually it's the just the application karate is a meme

>>166784

>MMA is for amons

Holy fuck, I just cringed so hard my forehead shattered. Go do your homework and go to bed, you have school tomorrow.

>>167983
The forward arm is supposed to grasp the opponent, the striking arm is supposed to strike as the other is pulling, usually solar plexus or the chin/throat.

>>167871
Machida says that karate needs to be adapted to modern times

>>168060
Of course it does, but it's core is still good if trained right.

>>168084
effective karate is an oasis in a desert of pot bellied boomers making things up
it's the exception not the rule

lets put it another way, we've all met people that do karate and are good fighters. If someone said I want to learn how to fight I sure as shit wouldn't tell them to go sign up for karate lessons because chances are they're going to learn shit like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeRtFxKAeZE
and if it's not that then it's this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epq4pSbhOgw

and to be honest I don't know which one is more silly and dumb and gay and retarded
I'd just tell them to go learn how to box or sign up for jiujitsu because even though both of those are incomplete and sporty and shitty in their own ways, they sure as shit aren't as bad as karate and you might learn something that at least isn't completely useless and or fake

>>167964
>You're not superior just because you choose to train in a more dangerous way to emulate a level of sport you will never participate in or make money from. You aren't proving anything to anyone.
>>168043
>Holy fuck, I just cringed so hard my forehead shattered. Go do your homework and go to bed, you have school tomorrow.

karate is for children. It's literally the watered down version of real combat sports tailored for normies and other sissys. There's no denying this. You literally lose for 'muh he hit too hard'. Faggots

>>168107
Ok.

>>168086
Karate's issues are mostly related to training methodology and culture, not the actual worth of the syllabus. It technically has all the major strikes you find in other martial arts and even some things unique to it, as well as grapples fairly similar to what you'd find in Judo and BJJ, the problem is that most schools hyperfocus on supplemental training tools (Kata and point fighting), with minimal or no contact training. Even styles that do full-contact as a main activity often fall into gay organisation infighting and bitch out of improving their game by rules lawyering competitions.

BUT, that only means that as a whole Karate has issues, individual dojos pr local associations may have their own thing going on that addresses those issues to an at least decent standard. So while you can't in good consciousness recommend karate as a reliable way to learn how to fight well you can't also just disregard it completely without getting to know what the people in your area specifically are doing.

IMO guys that transfered from traditional karate to combat sports and then came back like Wonderboy, Machida and Filho are a godsend for being able to breath in fresh air into the art. Their hands on experience in very much using karate to fight in an environment that doesn't care about its idiosyncrasies allowed them to recontextualize a lot of the traditional shit that was previously being taught in a vacuum and refine the teaching methods used to instruct the new generations. But then muh tradition fuckheads start hating them for not being le true karate, almost as if for them tradition means just doing the exact same thing people in the past did, not trying to develop the art in the same spirit.as the people that created it. In Okinawa we have evidence for karate always changing from generation to generation, and mixing their own native fighting styles with stuff they liked from mainland Japan, China, Thailand & Myanmar and even the fucking Philippines.

Karate in Japan has been doing this already. Besides Nippon Kempo and Kudo (which is its own thing now), Shinken Shobu rules under Hatsuo Royama have karateka wear gloves and do face punches. Shin Karate or gloved karate is a fast-growing sport where it's like other Japanese knockdown tournaments, but they have boxing gloves on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47NrEzMJVLk
Shinken Shobu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCMEvJmlHic
Shin Karate

>>168132
karate would do well to get rid of gis tho, there's no reason for it. It's just a visual sign from a distance that they're into tradition whether it offers value or not

>everyones clothes keep ripping doing judo
>decide to use firemans jackets because they're rugged
>karate sees it
>hey that's a good idea lets do that too
>judo really relies on that garment to work
>karate doesnt
>cheaper more comfortable modern clothes are now available
no reason to keep the thing

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>>168186
>TRADITION BAD!

>>168188
yes, tradition being preserved for its own sake is bad especially when it's a false tradition like the karate gi

karate was changing and developing for generations and then they decided to just take a random slice of it in the 1930s and go STOP no more! this is the final form, don't change anything further

>>168191
Go do a different martial art then

>>168198
I did

I hoped to save karate but now I see it's choosing to die so I will let it

>>168186
>>judo really relies on that garment to work
It really doesn't, any half decent judoka can use the techniques on regular light street clothing or even bare skin
>b-but the cloth will tear
if you got judo'd I think your broken collarbone or cracked skull is a bigger concern.

Also fuck you, the gi looks great, much better than sports clothing.

>>168245
Judo needs to update itself. It should go no-gi. It's jacket wrestling and while in most encounters, people wear clothing to grab on, it's better to modify the techniques so that you don't have to rely on "handles". The same goes for BJJ; it should only be no-gi too.

>>168191
I agree.

Some traditions like wearing the mongkon and pra jiad as well as performing the wai kru for Muay Thai can be preserved because they don't take away the performance of the style. They're the trappings of ceremony that one performs to honor the match and to show pride in their lineage.

Karate and kenpo should just wear a simple cotton shirt and shorts. It allows freedom of movement for acrobatic movement and sparring while being nowhere near expensive as a keikogi. Or a rash guard even.

>>168249
it's like I always say, your martial art needs to pass the guido test
if it's not going to work against a half nude bro covered in lotion on a beach during spring break it doesn't pass the test

gi stuff can be practiced later on if you want to explore deeper into more specific contexts but jacket throws are not fundamental, they're secondary skills. It has to work against a sweaty naked guy trying to rape your wife full stop

>Karate and kenpo should just wear a simple cotton shirt and shorts
yes, that's the way they did it in okinawa before imperal japan forced their culture down the throats of the islanders
that's the true tradition

>>168249
>in most encounters
lmao. My brother in christ, if you like bare skin better just train it using exclusively techniques that work with that, which I'm sure you know plenty, after all you do train these things, right? It'd be really weird for you to run your mouth about something you have no clue about. It's fine to to like no gi better, but you don't need to justify it by pretending you're some fucking anime character getting ambushed by trained martial artists that can exploit a supposed flaw in your game that comes from being more used to a certain style of grappling. If you're enough of a lowlife that you go around getting into street fights you most definitely DON'T fight and CAN'T do anything to benefit from this scenario you think is a problem.

>>168250
You spend a lot of time near sexually aggressive naked, oiled men? Anyway I don't see why jacketed martial arts wouldn't pass that. If you actually trained (you don't) you'd know most techniques can either be ported over to no gi or intuitively adapted on the fly just through your experience in the mats. If you're only used to gi martial arts but train the no gi version for a few weeks you'll end up basically just as good as someone who only trained in no gi from the start. It's REALLY not a big deal.

>Karate and kenpo should just wear a simple cotton shirt and shorts
Pretty much nothing would change in how it works, except it'd look worse.

>>168249
No it doesn't just use headlocks and sweeps, then control the fall so it lands hard, proceed to stomp throat.

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>>166778
Kudo Daido Juku exists.

>>168274
People say that like Kudo isn't an obscure niche even in the places where it's practiced.

>>168179
>Shinken Shobu rules
It looks just like very shit kickboxing

>>168330
Would bet my left nut that half of those guys there would pummel you without much problem

>>168330
It does, but it's the step in the right direction. Royama was part of the original generation of Oyama's students that sparred with head shots during kumite before tournament rules dictated everything.

Look at the early All Japan and World tournaments in the 1970's. The Japanese karateka had their hands held up high; almost glued to the temple or cheeks because their instinctive reaction to prepare for head shots (despite no punches or elbows to the head allowed) was ingrained.

Royama realized that Kyokushin lost its fighting edge as the "Strongest Karate" as it was known in the 70's to Oyama's death. Hell, even Oyama formed a Kyokushin gym to compete against Muay Thai and Royama fought in some Japanese Kickboxing bouts.

Give it some time and they'll be better polished. This along with Kudo, Nippon Kempo, Shin Karate is what tournaments SHOULD look like.

>>168330
All I've seen of it is literally just kickboxing at high levels. Not particularly bad.

>>167916
>not a single le based deadly goju ryuka
Robert Whittaker was a goju-ryu black belt.

>>166778
>Why can't karate just put on gloves, a mouth guard, and, if they wanted to boxing headgear, spar like everyone else?
For fuck sake have you literally never picked up a book about 20th century martial arts history?
Karate guys literally created kickboxing as we know it doing just that.

Why are you so ignorant?

>>168249
>Judo needs to update itself. It should go no-gi.
>It's jacket wrestling
How are you so fucking stupid that in one breath you say judo should be nogi then in the next acknowledge why it isn’t. If you want to wrestle without a gi, then fucking wrestle. I genuinely can’t understand how you morons think.
>but muh street fights
It’s an Olympic sport, street fighting is for worthless retards. If you want to fight, do it with other fighters in a fair and controlled environment. If you have to fight on the street with some worthless retard, any halfway decent judoka is going to win regardless of whether or not their opponent is wearing a jacket.

>>168378
>any halfway decent judoka
Rejects the Olympic rules privately

>>168600
You don't need to alter a sport's entire organizational and competition rules to fine tune the specificities you want in YOUR training.

>>168614
The sport is what polluted the art and drives the training because there's money and clout involved in it. And so the only aspects practiced are the ones this unelected committee decides on behind closed doors
It's completely antithetical to what the vision of judo was supposed to be
Mutual well being, not rivalry and competition

>>168333
>shit kickboxer can still beat an anon
Shocking

>>168615
Judo wouldn't have been better off without the sport. It'd have been on the same meme tier as other trad jap arts that don't do active competition like aikido or the remaining tradition jujitsu schools. Ineffective, hard to find and increasingly detached from reality.

>>168643
Most posters here are martial artist that spar regular themselves. Some are even veteran black belts. They should atleast be able to handle "shitty kickboxing" if they can talk shit here

>>168674
it's funny people throw around the term like kickboxer or MMA fighter and automatically conflate the idea of professional prize fighters with weekend warriors that totally suck (most of the population practicing)

most people dont have enough skill points that their stylistic choice is going to be the X factor
like "bro you do TKD you'd lose to a professional kickboxer" yeah no shit, so would you

it's like I always say, I may not be the best in the world, but I'm better than you ;)

>>168677
He didnt write professional kickboxer. He said shitty kickboxing which amounts to me to a maximum of a year of training

>>168356
Yeah, and Matt Serra did wing chun

>>168334
>Give it some time and they'll be better polished.
I bet it will not, because of small amount of students, low rivalry and kickboxing/muay thay exists

>>168674
I bet my left butt cheek those shitty kickboxers could RIP your ass
>inb4 b-but I spar regularly and am a veteran black belt
And I'm a tyrannosaurus rex

>>168777
I would lose to high level Kyokushin in a Kyokushin match most likely. Which this is, not shitty kickboxing as your delusional ass keeps calling it

>>168796
I didn't say they are shitty kickboxers, a said they look like shitty kickboxers. They are trying to reinvent the wheels just to look like already existing sport

>>168674
Most posters on this board lie about training super niche versions of popular martial arts with all the benefits and none of the the downsides. The ones that train for real are mostly beginners and bordering intermediates who’s opinions shouldn’t be taken super seriously yet.

>>167917
Yeah there are actually, a lot of them

>>168817
>they arent shitty kickboxers
>but i said they look like them!1!
You alright in the noggin?

>>167917
You have no fucking clue what you're talking about, there are shit tons of them that are run by grifters, just like in TMAs.

>>168906
Pls take your pills and learn to read >>168330
>It looks just like very shit kickboxing

>>169227
How about you stop being retarded?

>>169233
>fart

>>168249
Plenty of judoka are experimenting with no-gi. Satoshi Ishii put out some vids. The IBJJF has gi and nogi competition so I wouldn't put it past Judo to do a nogi format (though the IJF would probably resist). Hey you never know though.

>>168674
Black belts are a joke

>>169322
Lol. Sorry BJJ nerds, you heard it here first
>>169263
The IJF is killing the sport with every new rule and are hellbent on killing it as a martial art

>>169348
Well yeah, the sportification of Judo was already bemoaned by Donn Draeger. I'm all for competition, but too many judo schools neglect proper newaza practice or don't teach the self-defense portion. My judo coach was an ex-Marine who also wrestled. He taught us his mix of judo (the full syllabus including stuff from books like Kawaishi's book on leglocks), collegiate wrestling, street fighting, and military combative techniques.