>>139720
i've been there more than once. it's a tough spot but it's nothing special, man. bjjfags do it all the time, and get out of it all the time. Source: I am a bjj fag.

>>139720
judo fags literally think you win fights by holding someone for 30 seconds

>>139720
its an underrated position in bjj and judo imo. shit is fucking impossible to get out of. its also has its potential lost in judo because nobody knows about the elbow and shoulder locks you can do from there with impunity (as you can see from >>139963 ), since it isnt allowed in judo, and bjjfags dont get throws often enough to land in that position.

>>139720
this is my main top pin in bjj. love catch wrestling v locks with the legs. stepping over and catching the arm for head and arm chokes.

>>139965
>it isnt allowed in judo
they are allowed in Judo

>>139963
there are multiple submissions from the kesa position and I can smash your fucking skull in MMA

>>140013
Scarf hold is not super hard to get out of and in order to strike you will need to let go of their arm and possibly allow them to take your back of at least sweep you. Its literally just shit side control, at least with side control you have easy elbows with the cross face and you can get to mount.
>>139965
Its only hard to get out of if the guy on bottom doesnt know how to get out or if the guy on top is much much heavier than the bottom guy.

>>140027
>Scarf hold is not super hard to get out
you're doing it wrong BJJ bitch, you cannot imagine how much I get off when you pathetic rats try to escape pathetically or push my neck while I break your Adam's apple with a punch choke. You know nothing of ground work like the average BJJ practitioner

>>140031
You need to let go of an arm to do a punch choke, which allows them to pendulum an arm out and backtake. The only way I see that working for you is if you are very big and therefore its hard to move you in general, in which case you might as well just do side control. Scarf hold requires two hands to control the opponent unless you massively outweigh the bottom player, and unlike side control it doesnt offer any way of advancing position

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>>140034
you don't know the position

>>140037
If you look very closely you will see that the guy in the blue gi is no longer holding the right arm of the guy in the white gi. Being a blind and retarded judoka you might have missed that, and also missed the importance of holding said arm.

>>140038
what a sad idiot you are, if the opponent tries to escape instead of defending the throat he is going to sleep

>>140039
the pendulum and the tip escape both take pressure off of the neck, the former by turning the head to the side, and the latter by off balancing and threatening to tip the top person, requiring a post in order to stay on top, thus alleviating pressure. There is a reason you don't see it at the highest levels of comp, even with people who are also black belts in judo.

>>140040
yeah tell that to Josh Barnett, Oleinik, Dvalishvili just to name a few
you will always be an ignorant, weak and useless BJJ PUSSY.

>>140054
Literally had a seminar taught by top medalling ADCC grapplers the other day and he straight up said that scarf hold is pretty useless but you still need to know how to defend it and then showed how to do so.

>>140059
tell that to Dean Lister lmao.
you're so funny BJJ pussy, I don't give a shit what another BJJ faggot pussy says, facts talk

>>140059
listen little bitch, you'd rather hope to not meet someone like me on the street because I will end your fucking life. I will smash your skull with an Osoto Gari, archeologists will find your occipital bone embedded in concrete

>>139963
https://youtu.be/672HW8sZHIM

>>140063
>facts talk
We don't see a lot of kesa gatame in high level grappling. Very useful in judo, and maybe in gi jiu jitsu if you're a fatty

>>140027
>you will need to let go of their arm
Just place the arm in between your legs for an easy lock, you now have a free hand to work with.

>>140012
the ude garame and juji using the legs?

>>139965
> it isnt allowed in judo
I really wish people would stop just making shit up on this board

>>140071
You cant do that lock unless the defender unlocks their hands and gives you enough time to fight the hand. A good defender wont do that, they will either do the classic tip defense which puts them in top side control, or will only unlock their hands momentarily in order to straighten their hands and pendulum their elbow below your hip line. Once the elbow is below your hip line you cant lock them or ezekiel choke them as their head and body are turned to the side. You also have to worry about backtakes.

>>140069
adcc isn't the highest level of grappling

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>>140119
>why use 50% of the brain when you could use none
You

>>140120
He’s right though

>>140099
yes

>>140118
lol shut up faggot, you literally have no clue what you're talking about, stick to rolling with housewives pussy

>>140069
>We don't see a lot of kesa gatame in high level grappling
High level submission grappling*

Kesa gatame, though it has submission options, it mostly useful as a pinning position. Sub grappling puts all the importance on submissions, so a pinning position doesn't get much use. simple as

>>140027
My favourite thing to do to little fucknuggets like you is wait until you breathe out and squeeze tighter and tighter into a chest compression while you think you can tip me over.

>>140031
These bjj nerds you are so proud of beating are fucking clueless whitebelts if they cant escape pins

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>>139720
It doesn't
Judo and bjj are very similar arts. The fact that judo focuses on takedowns and bjj focuses on groundwork doesn't mean bjj doesn't have takedowns or judo doesn't have groundwork.

>>140598
But why would any fighter want to be the monke on the right?

>>139720

I think they taught us the escape on my third or fourth lesson

>>139772
in a fight u will get ur eyes gouged or face bitten off

>>142944
yeah because that happens in most fights lol

>>142949
When I saw the pic, my first thought was "that's an ideal position to gouge the bottom guy's eye out"

>>142964
Or you could just punch him until he’s out cold like a non-autist

>>142965
I'm sorry, I've never been a non-autist

>>142983
You have my condolences

>>140119
>>140069
this.
ADCC values groundwork too much, not to mention that its purely nogi.
Any time a competitor is buttscooting because the rules doesn't force a standup if the parties are both disengaged and one party is standing means that its a shit ruleset, especially if its because the guy on the ground is scared of standing up. all you have to do is consider it in a streetfight. two grapplers, one goes on the ground because hes scared of the superior wrestler/judoka blasting his head/body on the ground, sits into guard, other grappler leaves and brings a fucking stick to beat the guard puller since he has that ability to stand and walk/run

Also, i hate the meme that gi (specifically used as an argument against judo) is only applicable with a heavy winter jacket. its not. it works on stronger tshirts, it works on common hoodies and everyday jackets.
even weaker tshirts will work; will it rip? probably, but by that time youve thrown the dude and choked him out so who cares.

>>143256
T. Autist with street fight power fantasies

>>143300
a martial art's worth is how quickly and effectively it can train good fighters, which is why all asian grappling has a gi component, a naked soldier is a soon-to-be-dead soldier.
If your martial arts completely neglect the standing component of grappling then its a major limitation. its an even greater folly then to start calling nogi submission grappling as "the highest level of grappling".

>>143305
>If your martial arts completely neglect the standing component of grappling
It never did and you know it's true, just because elite bjj guys can't stand up with athletes whos sport is nothing but stand up grappling doesn't mean it doesn't work completely, same logic would be applied that you would never beat Gordon Ryan because even if you throw him you can't follow him in the ground and finish him
Also save my time and don't bother replying with an essay of a specific street altercation scenario where you would beat someone, i don't care about your power fantasies

>>143310
you can apply the same logic to judo and sambo. they dont neglect groundwork completely yet they dont have the audacity to call their entire sport "the highest level of grappling".
The highest level of grappling has a simple definition. its whatever works best in most situations. This means that takedowns are effective because it causes physical trauma and puts your opponent into bottom position. it means that submissions are effective because theyre fight enders. but it also means that "50/50" or "advantageous" bottom positions like guard or ashigarami are not as good as pure grapplers think they are.
The UFC has a better claim to "the highest level of grappling" than ADCC because it rightly points out that bottom position is a poor position to completely specialize in because you tire faster and youre risking getting KO by ground and pound.

>>143318
>The highest level of grappling has a simple definition.
>the one i just chosed that favours my favorite grappling art
>what you mean a grappling competition where nearly everything goes is the highest level of grappling?
>it's actually another sport

>>143323
i never claimed that judo or sambo or wrestling are the highest form of grappling. they focus on standup too much. likewise, submission grappling favours the ground too much.
Im favouring for a unification where both matters equally. BJJ matches can immediately improve in ruleset if they force a standup when both parties are disengaged and one party doesnt want to try guard passing. Judo ruleset can be improved immediately if they let people play on the ground for a much longer time and if they allowed more submissions.
Youre going to tell me that nicky rod vs gordon ryan wasnt a dumbest match youve ever seen because of "muh regulation time" where takedowns means nothing, and gordon ryan can just stay on the ground and scoot his butt towards nicky rod for the rest of the match. That looks and is stupid.

>>143324
You are right, but until said rulesets exist adcc is the highest form of grappling

>>143326
kek, a wrestler/judoka would just throw a little ADCC bitch like Gordon Ryan to death and stomps his skull into concrete if he still breathes.
i never liked the term grappling because it is just a synonim for jiu-jitsu, a sport practiced by woman and cowards afraid of fighting.

>>143256
>Also, i hate the meme that gi (specifically used as an argument against judo) is only applicable with a heavy winter jacket
Gi is actually more realistic than no-gi. As you mentioned it can be done with regular shirt/jacket/hoodie is enough to control posture for throws.
Unless you're starting a fight at muscle beach, most people are wearing something with long sleeves and a collar area

>>143326
i wouldnt say that. i unironically think that right now, the highest form of grappling is grappling in the UFC.
Anyone with a good botton game in the UFC like oliveira or yair rodriguez have a genuinely good bottom game where they can strike/submit and control from bottom guard without getting destroyed by top guard strikes. Same thing With khabib, makachev, DC, and GSP. these are all dudes who figured out how to take other wrestlers down, and keep BJJ blackbelts in bottom position, without getting kicked, kneed, and rocked while getting close. all the while maintaining control and submitting or striking.
You mentioned that the highest level of grappling is everything goes. in the UFC everything goes, including KO from throws. takedowns are properly rewarded because bottom position means fatigue and getting striked at if your bottom game isnt good enough. The only way they could "improve" on the realism are concrete floors, but then its not its a sports match anymore and people will actually die when KOed or slammed.

>>143256
>guard, other grappler leaves and brings a fucking stick to beat the guard puller since he has that ability to stand and walk/run
If the person leaves the bjj guy can also go find a stick or just leave as well.

>>143373
i dont think you realize about how common usable weapons are in everyday life. you can reliably walk 3 feet and find a glass bottle to throw at a guard puller or to glass him with in a random alley. Purposefully taking away your ability to easily run after confronting a dude is not a good idea, especially if the reason you go to the ground is because youre scared of the other dude's standup grappling skills.

Damn, judo guys are really mad uh? I see a lot of people being mega macho over here that probably never got punched in the face once.

Let me tell you all something. Grappling is one of the most important skills to have in a fight, but if you try to get a hold of someone who can strike, either you're experienced enough to be able to do stuff even with a broken nose, or you better learn to factor defense in your power fantasies.

Hey, i beat a lot of guys at the gym too, but a street fight? You people seem to forget how dangerous, unpredictable and fucked up it is out there. You be here speaking moon runes about your techniques and the guy's five friends are shanking your sides with shivs.

Y'all need to relax and touch more grass.

>>146394
Where i live bjj is absolutely retarded because everyone practices the superior Pueto Rican judo. Okay you white nerd go ahead and try your faggy delariva or x guard. Ill just pull out my knife or gun and end your shit in the blink of an eye.

>>146395
Exactly my point, glad we agree.

Streets are fucked up and thinking things will go according to whatever martial art you practice is wishful thinking.

>>146395
Cringe

>>139965
>Impossible to get out of
It's not, it's my favorite position but we train a lot on how to get out of it.

once upon a time there was a royce gracie seminar and he was showing a kesa gatame escape, with the claim that he could escape anybodies best kesa without fail

in comes steve, now mind you steve was an absolute unit. He was built like a refrigerator and also happened to be a 4th dan in judo and a former NCAA wrestler
well needless to say steve gave royce the smash and royce ultimately tapped out. he was so butthurt about it he got up and walked out of his own seminar.
lil royce seems to have gotten high on his own supply, after all these years of being surrounded by yes men and propped up to demigod status I think he forgot that other people know how to fight too

>>139720
I do BJJ and do kesa gatame all the time. My americana or my accordion from that position have a very high finish rate.

>>146915
Based obese guy

>>139720
>Chin down.
>Defend the process with your hips back, so your back doesn't go down.
>Roll him over you by sorta-pendulum.
>Push elbow up to remove head.
>Take seatbelt.
Alternatively.
>Back goes down.
>Push elbow to remove head.
>Take back.
I mean, I'm new to this stuff, but would that work?

>>150168
Travis Stevens has a thing where you just cycle between 3 escapes and you unironically described two of them
I don't normally escape pins, but most people think they're in a good spot in kesa,and few actually know how to make it oppressive/punishing

>>150278
>few actually know how to make it oppressive/punishing
Thank God. Fucking miserable.