karate thread - Kyokushin Bull editionprevious >>85346
>>126367This dude had essentially 2 wives as his first wife encouraged him to bone some other bitch?
I have the chance of create a dojo in a few years, I have the idea of mix standard karate with boxing punches and footwork alongside of try to follow Muay Thai way of training (pads, sparring and so on).Probably kickboxing with extra steps but I simply want to "modernize" the style, the techniques still but with a more practical approach.
>>126411I believe it was actually that he developed traps that were so huge people said he looked like a bull.
>>126428Which style are you trying to modernize? A lot of karateka have done this from different backgrounds. By "standard" do you mean shotokan?
>>126428See >>126443 why try to reinvent the wheel? This has been done repeatedly by some of the best fighters who ever lived.. See Kyokoshin Karate with Shiinken Shobu rules, Japanese kickboxing/K1, Kudo, Karate Combat (maybe since a promotion not really a comp format let alone style?)?
>>126428>have the chance of create a dojo in a few yearsMy advice is to learn how to run the business, book keeping, and liability stuff and see if you have tolerances to the paperwork side of things before you start spending money. I found out that while I love teaching I REALLY hate running a business. It's so much work for so little of a return. Unlike actually teaching it's self, which is super rewarding, fun, and doesn't really feel like work at all.
Why no old karate master thought about put his hands up and use the other hand to cover his chin while punching?
>>126443>>126461Shotokan, mostly because the current training method seems very outdated.>>126751I'm gonna try my best.
>>126428>>126751How much experience do you have in karate/boxing/muay thai?Like another anon said, teaching is one thing and running a business owner is another. I've had a few coaches who used to own their own gyms and they all said they were happier when they were just coaches instead of coaching and having to run a gym.
>>127102Because i can still punch your hand and hit your head?
>>127102I don't think anybody knows for sure, but I doubt anybody was doing hikite while sparring in the 19th century and earlier. I think that was invented with ippon kumite in the early 20th century.
Tell me something in karate that would be useful for MMA that I already dont know about
>>128181We only really ever saw lunge punches used really well by guys like machida. I don’t think anyone e looks e is incorporating them into their game as anything bother than a one off gimick
Am I wrong or is Karate coming back in fashion?
>>128824Why do you think so?
Anyone interested in fighting next year? >>128824Kinda… its not just for kids anymore it seems.
>>129088These three seem open to most people, which is always fun
>>129089I’m going to try to make lightweight for the French WKO tournament and then I’ll see how I feel about the Scottish Open and the Diamond Cup
>>128824Cobra Kai effect plus Karate Combat modernising it.
So, Feitosa and Filho have officially resigned from their positions within the IKO, and the IKO have formally expelled the two of them. This is most likely because of their involvement with the KWU and Senshi, which have strong ties to the Bulgarian criminal underworld, and not because the IKO hate all other forms of Kyokushin. A shame really but the KWU are only going to become bigger and bigger, and can throw more money at people like this than organisations 4 times their size. Does anyone here have experience with the KWU or Senshi??
>>129549What is KWU and Senshi?
>>129567KWU is a sort of.... It's a loose affiliation of Kyokushin dojos, mainly across Europe. It stands for Kyokushin World Union, and has the supposed goal of getting Kyokushin in the olympics (which was Oyama's dream when the IKO was at its peak), it was founded by Ivo Kamenov, who also is one of the founding members of the Bulgarian criminal organisation, TIM. It's not an ironclad organisation like IKO, and has various associations with Shinkyokushin (WKO), KyokushinKan, the IFK, and the KWF etc. Senshi is their "pro-karate" organisation, it's mainly a kickboxing/K1 clone but it has multiple rulesets that allow for "prokyokushin" (kyokushin in a ring with rounds but still full gi no gloves etc) and despite being extremely low on the kickboxing ladder (nowhere near Glory, K1, Rizin, ONE, etc etc) it has managed to attract official appearances from every major K1 star, even those with no association with Kyokushin or karate. They have enough funding it seems they'd pay for Andy Hug's corpse to appear if he hadn't been cremated. I think in the near future they'll try to absorb the IFK, as the president, Shihan Pickthall, has been spending lots of time with the KWU and Senshi, appearing at many of their events and camps. There's actually so many splinter Kyokushin organisations around it gets really confusing, it's more than suspicious when Filho and Feitosa announce their resignation and then immediately offer to teach classes for Senshi and KWU. Nevermind the fact they seem to be able to afford Pettas, Semmy Schlitt, etc to appear at random no-name fight cards in Eastern Europe
>>128181Karate conditioning methods such as makiwara punching, rolling kali sticks on shins, hitting forearms with kali sticks.
>>128181Zen or other meditation.. highly underrated or understood in the modern fake identity era.
>>129088Can I fight the promoter? After all, he owns these slaves . Perhaps global battle royale would be more my thing. An actual battle with actual stakes, actual status and actual victory.
>>126367Kyokushin fucking sucks in Karate Combat
>>129694People who are actually good from kyokushin get picked up by real kickboxing orgs
>>129694ok Adam Cuckvax
>>129674are you retarded or just underaged?
>>126428Think you can reinvent the wheel?Boxing, muay thai and others have dynamics, ways of using the body different from karate. You can't mix them.Karate is a set of a whole. Katas, kihon, bunkai, kime... everything has its reason for being. If you change something, you change everything.Maybe you don't believe in Karate anymore, if you believed in it, you would be doing like Patrick McCarthy, deconstructing Karate, recovering its techniques and working to recover its potential.
Any reccs for high-quality book about history of karate?
>>129694I hardly see any Kyokushin in karate combat.
>>129742Very rigid mindset
Just been awarded my 7th Kyu in kyokushin let’s go
>>129707Give me some fresh examples pls
>>129574I would support Kyokushin in olympics.Get rid of taekwondo. I would also welcome Kyokushin as the dominant form of karate instead of Shtokan and its unefficient ruleset.As one of my hudo teachers said : "In (shotokan) karate, when fighter gets knocked out he wins. How are normal people supposed to understand this?".
>>130220Some of the current literal best kickboxers in the world come from kyokushin. Obviously they are cross training but so are the people in krotty cumbat.https://youtu.be/0WxOzqHRA6s
54th Shinkyokushin All Japanhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLQSK35zk_AGonna post some highlights.
>>130295Once more, with feeling.
>>130296
>>130297Rolling Thunder appears to be the kick of the day
>>130299And some fun angles
>>130300Painful
>>130301Felt bad for the guy, even when he stood back up he fell down again on the tatami.
>>130302Cool stuff, can't wait for day 2 tomorrow.
>open stream 2>fucking naruto musicamazing..... Shinkyokushin... I kneel
>>130585>working with only 3mb is pretty toughAlright lets get a few webms before bed
>>130599Always feel bad when the flight instincts kick in after a guy goes down, and the ref has to wrangle them back into position for the decision. Amazing angles here
>>130600Grit, determination, will, fighting spirit, heart, guts, chin, etc etc, this is kyokushin.
>>130602Ochiai too strong.... Great showing from his opponent, but his huge punches, unstoppable forward movement win him the fight. Ochiai ga taosenai....
>>130603until.... eventually one brave soul does the impossible o7
>>130604Absolutely murderous leg destruction
>>130599These are pretty cool but to be honest it looks silly that they're avoiding headshots the whole time. Asking as a non-karate guy (save for experience as a little kid)... how much of karate focuses on the "internal" i.e. body mechanics, intention etc? What's the training like?
>>130599>working with only 3mb is pretty toughusing vp9 helps a lot now that 4chan supports it
Did you know they teach karate in hell?
>>130623Depends where you go? The place I train, that sort of thing only happens after yellow belt, and even then it's always secondary to technique. The reason behind the no headpunches rule is that one, they're bareknuckle, a tournament with full contact face punches would lead to so many broken hands by the second rounds it would just be untenable. Secondly, they're also testing your determination, your ability to endure constant punishment, as opposed to just getting knocked out by one lucky punch. Of course there are lucky kicks and head kick KOs are quite frequent but the idea is that there is a much higher level of control and skill that goes into a head kick KO, a body blow KO, and a low kick KO than punches to the head. Don't get me wrong, I love kickboxing, muay thai, MMA, etc etc, but Kyokushin will always be my favourite.>>130707how do you use vp9? I still used webm4retards lol
>>130929no one else is posting so i might as well tweak my own webms
>>129742>Boxing, Muay Thai, and others have dynamics, ways of using the body different from karate. You can't mix them.Japan and the Netherlands have no shortage of athletes who contradict this.
>>129694I cannot remember watching any KC matches where somebody came from a kyokushin background. Please post proof, though, because the hemorrhoidal tears of "kyokushin or bullshido" elitists would be priceless.
>>130929>how do you use vp9? I still used webm4retards lolcheck the box that says vp9
>>131065There was one Kyokushin fighter, Zsolt Zsiga. He did okay but very clearly lost. There's a German guy who says he's Kyokushin but spends most of his time in Thailand and doing some weird off brand of Kyokushin that has awarded him 7th dan.... He's honestly a retard desu and just believes in walking forwards and tanking hits without delivering any real techniques. However, (here it comes, the caveat etc) Karate Combat has a very unfavorable ruleset for Kyokushin, no low kicks, no striking in the clinch (I believe) means that anyone seriously good at Kyokushin would have to train completely differently to do well on KC, and since Kyokushin is so big (it's probably the biggest style of karate, there are tournaments and dojos everywhere, of various qualities, there's a lot of bullshit kyokushin of course) there's not that much incentive for a Russian or Japanese or Brazilian Kyokushin competitor to enter karate combat if they want that full contact experience, it's easier for them to enter kickboxing/MT than something specific like KC. A lot of the bantamweight, flyweight, featherweight, divisions of kickboxing across the globe are dominated by People with Kyokushin backgrounds, like Tenshin Nasukawa, who was one of the best fighters in the youth divisions. Takeru went through the gloved shin karate youth leagues as well. Different rules attract different styles of fighters, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMQC5fYScd8&list=PLYqfpmJlqGIe8RTjgoZqh-FjS10SoPr-T watch baby tenshin completely style on some poor kid.
>>131119Yeah if some of the best kyokushin people were in kc it would be punching down by a lot. As is Gabriel Varga in that org... That last figh he hadt was some Johny Rhodes vs Fred Etish tier mismatch.
>>128181I don't know what you already know.The basics of kickboxing have a lot in common (for obvious reasons) with karate. So if you already know how to kickbox you know most of the functional stuff of karate.I mean there is stuff like roundhouse and front kick variations that are pretty good, and useful to know compared to just having the standard MT style roundhouse and nothing else. But again, I don't know if you already know those.A good front leg side kick is fantastic for controlling distance, but if you have good kickboxing training you should probably already have that in your toolbox.Karate stresses being able to fight well on both sides and being able to switch lead leg. Which is a cool ability but I don't know if you are willing to dedicate the training time to become a switch stance fighter. But yeah, don't know what you know so can't advise.
>>131165this angle is crazy, from the side it's quite normal looking, also the spin is of course sped up, still a really nice kick to watch in real time. https://youtube.com/watch?v=LtAyHXxuKW0&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE&t=3176 kick is at 51 mins or so
>Have to spar with brown belt with two stripes>He is 6'5” lanky skeleton>Taller and lankier than everyone else in dojo>All he does is strike with lead fist while backing up>Constantly tells people that their combos are too basic and predictable>Will never even stay put so anyone can work on anything other than chasing his ass downYou anons have any advice? Literally no one can fucking close a gap because all he does is jab and backpedal the entire time.
>>131896bum rush him, lowkicks (if allowed), especially on his inside lead leg, get in real close and get messy, everyone is taller than me at my dojo so i have to get in and fight like a dawg
>>131898I'll give that a try, thanks anon.
>>127102Probably the same reason they never invented a shield while the bow and arrow was their main weapon of war.
>>131899What style do you do? Depending on the rules etc, I think its also worth trying to sweep/counter him the moment just before he strikes, stuff like this. ALso i don't know how much you're allowed to grab, but parrying his leadhand or pulling him in closer to you for a follow up punch combo or possible kickhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwW9p6eE5gw
>>131902Shit, i like that. Thanks anon. We are technically an mma (weird karate/kickboxing with judo and JJJ) dojo. Only issue with the takedowns when sparring and him in charge when the sensais are out is "boxing gloves only" which i hate because I'm ocd about making a proper fist and the boxing gloves limit what I can do.
>>131904have you tried boxing bag gloves? My dojo mainly uses bag mitts rather than actual boxing gloves for sparring and pad work, better than MMA gloves but still good enough to make a fist?
There was really any "violent times" in Karate? Probably a fictional take but I'm curious.
>>132170There was the “blood and guts era” of American karate, which was still point scoring but with no padding, combinations legal, and for example in places like Texas, groin strikes and throat strikes were legal. People like Bill Superfoot cut their teeth in the blood and guts era, and then people realised you needed rules and regulations and gloves and American kick boxing was spawned (all American kickboxing was once called pro karate) and the full contact emphasis went to kickboxing and point karate became point karate. In Europe it’s different as kyokushin was always bigger than shotokan and that’s actually had a pretty solid ruleset for years, there was an early period where throat strikes were legal, at least in Britain, and it was common for people to foul and lose teeth at tournaments. Everyone has some story of a dojo war from the 80s or before. Genuinely used to have dojo storming but that was always more of an American thing than European. In the 60s it was pretty normal for your senseis etc to just wallop you with a shinai if you weren’t in the right stance, even during the kids classes. There’s a famous story of our founder whacking a kid with it for having a bad stance, and then having to whack the kid’s dad who stormed onto the mats when he saw it.
>>132199And in Okinawa?
>>132212In Okinawa there were kake-dameshi, wich translates as defying someone, puting them to the test.They were fighting hoodlums sometimes.And later they used to fight misbehaving GIs from the american base.
>>131896I saw 6'6" blue belt oblitarated black belt at local IKO1 competitions
Should I learn karate?
>>132629Learn boxing or muay thai instead
Any other "unorthodox" Shotokan master like Asai?
Anyone do Kudo? As a kyokushin guy it looks fun
>>133748I actually had the privilege of meeting Takashi Azuma more than 15 years ago when he visited the US. Apparently, Kudo or Daido Juku as it was called in the 80's and 90's, was meant to be an expansion of Kyokushin tournaments, but the no punches/elbows to the face (kicks and knees are allowed) and bare-knuckle format was already too popular and widespread. Kudo is what Karate should've been (alongside Nippon Kenpo which actually predates it by several decades). >>132199One of my coaches did karate in the 70's and a lot of what you said is true. It's natural for Americans to put on gloves and punch to the face along with the kicks they took from Karate/Kenpo as well as Tae Kwon Do/Tang Soo Do (which was originally termed 'Korean Karate" back then). It's a real shame that Kyokushin never really took hold in the US like it did in Europe and South America. My coach was originally a Goju stylist and he encountered kicks to the thigh when he visited Okinawa on a trip. That was something rarely seen in the US karate circles outside of Kyokushin since they had exposure to Muay cut kicks. He also picked up toe kicks from an Uechi ryu guy he met. Then he went on to train in the Netherlands and then Thailand to broaden his skills.
>>126428>standard karate with boxing punches and footwork alongside of try to follow Muay Thai way of training (pads, sparring and so on).this is how they train in japan, what you described is literally what japanese kickboxing is, you are doing nothing new.
>>133752This, Kudo looks very interesting but historical reasons make so that it will never be as popular as other fighting sports.Now that there is so much money on mma, almost no one will invest in full contact karate with throws.
>>133784Kudo does seem like the next step in the evolution of karate, it's a shame the fragmentation of Kyokushin seems to have prevented karate from progressing further.>>133784Kudo is super popular (outside of the west) it's massive in eastern Europe and many Kudoka go on to participate in sambo, MMA, Sanda, and other larger sports with a variety of results. The problem is that in the English speaking world it has next to zero visibility
>>126428yeah p much what >>126443 , >>126461 , and >>133768 said. this is the kb gym i train at in a nutshell. the only difference would be that we don't wear a gi. and we don't rlly use the japanese terms as much for the kicks.but many kickboxing gyms, especially if they have an instructor/coach who's a former karateka or tkd practitioner, for example, will have those tma snapkicks, typical point fighting in-and-out style, some traditions as a holdover from whichever tma the instructor(s) have a background in, etc.anyways, most modern karate styles are bastardizations of the original okinawan karate, as a lot of the "traditions" we associate w/ the art now weren't practiced back then, and they barely had kicks above the waist afaik. so w/e style of karate u intend to modernize is undoubtedly modern already in its revisionism.don't be silly anon. take an introductory class at the nearest kickboxing gym, and see for urself how much of what u describe has already been realized. u should visit different gyms/clubs/dojos/academies in ur area anyway to familiarize urself w/ what's out there, bc nothing beats first-hand experience.
How i would make karate combat based and actually good to watch.>allow fighters to wear dogi tops>add a kudo division>do a big one night tournament just like a real karate tournament, so that all the fighters with no real record can prove themselves in one night>allow low kicks of all kindsI think having throws etc in the ruleset but no dogi tops is just retarded, especially when you're billing the event as "KARATE", but if you have any idea as to why they make a dogi top but then never let the fighters actually fight in it (it looks too heavy and like a BJJ gi to be honest not a karategi) your guess is as good as mine
>>134414With things like KOTS getting traction maybe they made the fighters wear rope around their fists and try a "no holds barred" scenario finally showing the "brutality" of "real karate".
>>134414You will create just another UFC/combat sambo clone no one cares about
How I would change kyokushin.1) Add kickboxing ruleset competitions (with gloves and head punches). BJJ has gi and no gi categories, same idea should be done in kyokushin. Why not ditch classic kyokushin rules? Because they are the only one that itilize bare knuckles and force you to condition your knuckles2) I see kyokushin practitioners want to add throws or some sort of grappling all the time. I even saw kyokushin schools that make their students to learn throws for belt examines. Should I say they don't really now how to throw people? Judokas spent shit ton of time to learn how to throw people with most basic throws, do drills, practice them etc and still you can teach BJJ practioner with no stand up defend against single hip throw at almost 100% efficiency (I don't say judoka can't throw BJJka, they can but they need combine techniques - when you threaten opponent whith hip throw he usually becomes open to sweep). And I didn't even mention ground fighting which is whole new world.Let's look at combat sambo that combines grappling and striking. It doesn't have sport schools like regular sport sambo or judo where you can bring child and teach him "combat sambo" techniques from scratch. What really combat sambo school is place where you can come having CMS-MS in sambo, judo, wrestling or boxing and continue competing while learning techniques somewhere else. What does it mean? If you want to learn ground fighting better, you will go to grapplers or BBJitsers gyms. Or maybe your combat school already has some grappler or BJJitser? Then you are lucky and you can learn from them. Same for striking, you will learn it from boxers. I just want to show what a hell is to have a school that tries to combine striking and grappling.
>>136129It's always seems to be good idea on "how to create perfect martial art" - "let's get boxing hands, muay thai legs, freestyle wrestling and judo throws, throw in some BJJ chokes and submissions and sweeps from dangerous positions", but reality is it's better to learn those things from specialists.You should keep your school specialized, that's how it becomes usefull. Freestyle wrestling is best style to stay on top of opponent. Greco roman wrestling - best upper body throws and clinch. Judo - best jacket throws and sweeps. Grappling and BJJ - best groundfighting and chokes and submissions. Kyokushin IMO should aim to become best striking art first and foremost. Because now it is sorta okay but ruins your head defence reflections.3) Ditch kata - this is questionable and lot of people don't like it, but katas are useless even in styles like goju ryu that study them heavily and have bunkai (absolutely fantastic and not realistic). Judo had usefull pair katas and even most schools ditched even them. You don't need kata in modern gyms. At the same time it is usfull to keep kihon because IMO it is best thing to teach uncoordinated adult to use technique.
>>136130>but ruins your head defence reflections.*reflexes
>>136129Hatsuo Royoma's offshoot, Kyokushin-kan already addressed this deficiency. His Shinken Shobu tournaments have the participants wear fingerless gloves to allow punches and elbows to the face, sweeps/throws/takedown, and limited clinching (when you grab, you have to initiate a knee or some kind of strike immediately). They even allow limited matwork, but only AFTER a throw/takedown/sweep.Seidokaikan's World Cup would have the competitors put on boxing gloves if they were tied and allow face punches. Super-middleweight boxing champ Frankie Liles was a coach at the Seidokaikan honbu. Shidokan in Japan allow Knockdown Karate (no face punches) as well as Kickboxing bouts (put on gloves and you can bang away). In the US and Europe, Shidokan would host the Tri-athalon of Martial Arts: 1 round of Knockdown Karate, 1 round of Kickboxing, and finally 1 round of Submission Grappling. Kudo is basically MMA-esque with safety gear like Combat Sombo. Even in the early days of Oyama's single dojo in the 1950's and 1960's, students would wrap towels around their hands to spar or wear boxing gloves. It's how Kyokushin was the only karate style to compete against Muay Thai in 1964 because they were conditioned to withstand full-powered hits. So people are seeing the defects that Kyokushin has. Back in the 1960's when the knockdown rules for Kyokushin were finalized, Japanese law prevented bare-knuckle strikes to the face. Oyama wanted to keep Kyokushin without gloves so he compromised. But nowadays, Japan even allows Lethwei tournaments in Japan so bare-knuckle punches and elbows can be introduced but how many people are willing to do that?
proper sumo shiko is the secret to getting good high kicks
>>126367Wow
>>126367https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6Ed-ygptk8Not linking said anime opening is a sin! Commit sudoku.
>>136130> Ditch Kata because I don't understand it!DYEL fatty that can't move in 3D space.
>>129624> Kali sticks =/= Karate.Either knock more on the maki board or do knuckle/wrist push ups. Goju-ryu has some body conditioning that could be useful (hojo undo.)
>>133748That's 100% of good application of Karate technique. Fast and strong, keeping good form "KARATE DOESN'T WORK!" maybe it doesn't if you don't do it right like this guy here in blue."Ikken Hissatsu." That's all.
>>136311Hello, DYEL fatty that can't move in 3D space.>Ditch Kata because I don't understand it!No, ditch kata because they are useless. Learn to read
How many masters throw shit at Funakoshi?Aside of Choki.
>>137559Mas Oyama thought Funakoshi was soft because he only did kata and never sparred. Oyama did have respect for Funakoshi's son since he actually fought dudes.
>>137560Gigo Funakoshi went to China and that's where he picked up high kicks from
>>136326>ditch kata because they are useless>he doesn’t knowIf you don’t do kata you’re not going to make it.
>>137616Not the anon you're talking to but when you break down the 3 K's of Karate/Kenpo, it needs to be like this:Kihon (Fundamentals): I'd say at least 20-30% of practice. You need to strongly develop the basics of technique, generating power via torque/hip movement, breathing, muscle memory, etc. Kumite (Sparring): No less than half of your time needs to practice against a resisting opponent. Be safe and wearing protective gear, but natural instinct like flinching from a head strike needs to be addressed and how to block, parry, and check kicks are all essential. Kata (Forms): This is only done after the student has months of drilling and perfecting their techniques. It'll allow them to have a deeper understanding of certain moves and applications of basics, but this is a supplement to training and not the be-all end-all.
Scottish open tomorrow, anyone else fighting this weekend?
I want to learn more about Mas Oyama.What are some good books worth reading?
>>137812i lost jej, this knockdown stuff is hard
>>137616I know more than you, kata are cringe and useless as well as bunkai>>137618>It'll allow them to have a deeper understanding of certain moves and applications of basicsThey do not, stop parroting old memes
>>126443Just train KUDO or SAMBO if that's your goal tbfh.
>>138716>i know more than you>proceeds to know lesslol
lol I love karate
>>138748>dunning-krugerkek
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz5xBkvQ2MI&t=37s How this technique manage to be in Shotokan?The "Japanese Karate have some Jiu Jitsu influence" thing?
>>139276Gichin Funakoshi, the founder of Shotokan, and Jigoro Kano, the founder of Judo, were friends. Funakoshi taught karate at the Kodokan for the time.
>>139280It looks out of place
>>139281People used to do that scissor sweep in jka point karate tournaments all the time lol
>>139281When lowkicks weren't allowed in point karate the sweeps used to be crazyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0wsMoZwdx8It's an all time classic in Sanda, especially the flying type
>>126367I have the chance to join a dojo where they do full contact Karate. Is it any good for self defense? The boxing gyms are full of niggers.
>>139420The niggest, most ghetto boxing gyms are actually the places you wanna go for boxing. Regarding your question though, full contact karate should generally give you an edge over Joe Schmo in a fight, yes
