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/HEMA/ General - 16th Century Waifu Edition

>What is HEMA?
HEMA stands for Historical European Martial Arts, sometimes also called Historical Fencing.
It's reconstructing how to fight with swords, daggers, polearms and other weapons based on old European fighting treatises

>What does it look like?
Inside the World of Longsword Fighting - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zueF4Mu2uM
Back to the source - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DBmNVHTmNs
Martin Fabian Sparring - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8QlbKfX84k

>Where can I find these treatises?
https://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Main_Page
https://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Category:Weapons

>Where can I find HEMA clubs near me?
https://www.hemaalliance.com/club-finders
https://hroarr.com/train/clubs-gear/club-finder/
https://ifhema.com/ifhema-members/

Last thread: >>104955
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Oh no this thread again
>>
gay little LARP sport
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>>117089
What is the worst weapon category and why is it longsword?
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>>117098
Longsword became mainstream because it's what we have more sources about, and becoming mainstream made it the worst. It's simply what most people do and usually most people are horrible.
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How do I become not horrible?
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>>117131
What are you doing right now that’s horrible?
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I'm enjoying a bit of sideswording. Recommendations for getting more deeply into it? Mostly asking about books/masters. I've just done a bit of Meyer.
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>>117140
Anyone from the bolognese school
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>>117109
>it's what we have more sources about
Sidesword, rapier, smallsword and sabre all have similar or larger amounts of material, and all of them have better material on average
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>>117140
Dall'Agocchie for sword alone and sword with dagger, Manciolino for sword and buckler.
If you've trained Meyer before (for longsword or anything else), it makes sense to continue on Meyer.
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>>117109
>>117200
I think there are three factors:
1. Knights used longswords (yes, yes, 9th cent to 14th cent in sword and shield, then one hand riding swords anyway, but I'm talking about popular perception). Witness even Victorians and middle Moderns like Hutton and the nazi guy in Hitler Youth used it as LARPing as knights. Hell, even Meyer does.

2. Olympic fencing takes those who are more interested in single swords.

3. Katana autism and kendo success too

The fact that middle and late medieval sources we know use longswords as their main sytematic weapons is just a bonus and post-hoc explanation.
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Help John Clements is unironically trying to infiltrate my club how do I get him away
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>>117384
Parry his sword with the edge, he’ll flee in terror
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>>117131
take up a real sport like judo since all you have to do in faggothema is trip the other fatty anyway
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>>117428
As it happens, I happen to be both a judofag and HEMAfag. Judo has helped me dominate the lower levels, but by the time you’re feeling fighting the upper end of intermediates you need some actual skill with a sword.
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When did the hema alliance get so gay and misled? Was it marsden? That abhorrent dude from Denver? The last two literally who’s in charge?
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>>117217
>>117149
much appreciated
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>>117451
I left their Facebook group awhile ago. I don’t remember when but a few years back a bunch of literal troons started going on crusades about how we needed to root out all the secret nazis who were using HEMA to train for their imminent racial insurrection which for some reason will be fought with swords. A number of people, myself included, pointed out that this was fucking retarded but the admins kept letting it happen. Then instead of just banning the people constantly provoking shit and stirring the pot some female mod chastised the entire group for arguing about it. So I left.

This is also why I don’t feel bad seeing transvestites with gold medals in womens competitions. They asked for it.
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>>117468
You unlocked memories I wish i didn't remember. It was a dumb crusade and I still can't understand why it became such a big fuss.
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>>117468
>root out all the secret nazis who were using HEMA to train for their imminent racial insurrection which for some reason will be fought with swords

?
But the Armageddon WILL be fought with swords, both the Bible and the Qur'an agrees. Swords, cavalrymen, and bows.
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Looking to pick up hema in the next month or so. I've fiddled with sparring with polypropylene swords with shitty balance, but am looking to upgrade to synthetic sparring swords. With the polypropylene, I've used a saber, katana, and a bastard sword. The saber was the most fun between those. So now I am trying to pick between a saber or longsword. I will just be sparring with my fiancee who has done some rapier in the past, and also has a 40" blade steel rapier, and will probably be getting either a synthetic bastard sword or a synthetic rapier. Is there any strong reason to pick one or the other, or should I just flip a coin / personal preference?
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>>117750
Saber is for savages. Choose the longsword
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>>117750
If you're joining a club, it'll first depend on what's available really.
If it's just you messing up in your backyard, well sabre is supposedly easier to understand than longsword, but longsword is easier to use. Then again, if it's just backyard foolishness, just pick what seems fun, you'll have both soon enough, stop being in denial.

>>117812
>saber is for savages.
Like who? the english...? Oh wait.
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>>117812
Savagery = fun though
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>>117750
Longsword has a lot of resources and practitioners. Sabers has a lot more recent sources.
I'd recommend checking out sideswords if you like to cut and your partner has a rapier though, you could probably fence with one another
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>>118698
>I'd recommend checking out sideswords if you like to cut and your partner has a rapier though, you could probably fence with one another
The sidesword vs. rapier matchup is in my experience surprisingly equal, provided the sidesworder has the athleticism to advance quickly. At least, that's how I experience it. It could be that people here just suck at rapier.
The big problem with it is safety. Rapierists hate wearing the same level of protection as sidesworders do, so either you're hurting them, or you're fencing against them with kid gloves, which is not as fun and not really fair for the sidesworder, because if you can't beat and cut properly, you've just got a heavier, shorter rapier.
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>>117089
Is HEMA only a Duelling sport or is it a "realistic" represantation of medival combat?Losing a round because the Opponent slightly hit your chest which in a reall fight would be heavily protected with a Chainmail and Breastplatte is absurd to me.

Also does HEMA only use the Longsword which is a late Medival weapon or are there other Weapon stils?

I´m interested in 10-12 Century combat.
Knight with Norman shield and Sword/Spear
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>>118720
It's impossible to have a "realistic" representation of medieval combat without killing and maiming each-other, so anyone who makes that claim is either a literal killer or full of shit.
Generally in HEMA it's usually assumed that no armour is being worn, as the source material we work with mostly focuses on unarmoured self-defence or duelling. On the flipside there also is armoured combat (Harnischfechten), which assumes you're wearing a full set of plate armour or at least fighting against someone who is.
Very few sources directly deal with limited armour other than token lines saying "just don't hit the armour you idiot", one of the few exceptions I can think of is Monte, who briefly talks about fighting with body armour.

There are many different weapons in HEMA, longsword is (lamentably) the most popular one. The earliest source is from the late 13th or early 14th century, so there's nothing for Norman shields. The closest would be pic related (Achille Marozzo), who was however writing in the early 1500s. Still, he really knew his shit.
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>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c6TxWupWjI
>albion ringeck
>among the narrowest straight blades
>cuts right through tatami from normal guards (no wind up)

Curvoids in shambles.
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>>118813
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf0W0pRKCMY
>guy weighs less than the sword
>still cuts right through multiple times
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>>118813
>>118814

https://youtu.be/bEdOOZg9dOQ?t=49

Who would win?
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the only gigachad weapons melee sport
https://youtu.be/IhOxYTHgfus?t=138
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>>118746
Well is there a Sport similar to Hema/Harnischfechten that focuses on the Early Medieval period i.e 8-12th Century (the Classic Knight with Sword and Shield)?
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>>119147
Not if your actually interested in historical martial arts. You can go to the SCA if you want to LARP.
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>>119158
how does being interested in sword and shield mean you're not actually interested in historic martial arts and that its larp?
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0 fucking iq denominator in the thread just close this already
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>>119321
The earliest sword and shield manual we know of is Bolognese in the 16th c, "medieval knight sword and shield fighting" can only ever be experimental archaeology at best as a result
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>>119321
If you’re just making shit up instead of working from sources you’re not doing historical martial arts you’re larping.
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>>119325
I'm increasingly thinking that the Bolognese are a sort of shit-test for historical martial arts.
They have just about everything that people ask for: Sword and shield, polearms, spear and shield, single combat with two-handed swords (not just Iberian solo drills). It's effective, the sources are decently legible and have great translations, and it's well-proven both today and historically. It's also a style with very deep historical roots that go back long before the first books were published.
And yet, Bolognese isn't widely practised, because of the time and place, 16th century Italy. People don't actually want to learn an effective and historical method of fighting with spear and shield, they want to larp as Vikings.
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>>117428
Judo is gay compared to BJJ or other real martial arts
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>>119345
>judo is gay
>compared to bjj
Lmao the absolute cope
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>>118925

It was probably fake shit WWE style with rigged fights, fake punches and hits etc.... they even used weapons that pierced skin but did no harm to the insides, for them to bleed a bit for show. Even action figures and pics of the period have been found depicting various gladiators. Sportshit has always been shit.
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>>119347
I know, Judo fags are pathetic
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>>119352
Go shit up the judo general if you’ve got beef, retard
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>>119349
God I hate pop history revisionists so much
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>>119344
Truer words were seldom spoken, Marozzo was published for two centuries, discussed very early in the late 19th century revival, but without being a side source, it's much more sidelined than fairly obscure sources desu.
The Bolognese corpus is just great. But yeah it's the flowery italian words, it's "italian" whatever that means considering how there was non-stop wars in there at that time and those people were really hardcore, but yeah, it's vikings, germans, etc. The idea of people like French, Italian or somehow Spanish being leading figures of martial arts seems completely alien even though historically this is absolutely the case at some point in history.
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>>119344
Based take
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>>119382
I started doing HEMA with a very small club led by an englishman, he just happened to be doing Meyer because that's what he knew. I never knew Marozzo was so widely sources in martial arts, and now you got me interested.
I just figured being in the netherlands, a german or dutch source would be culturally appropriate, but you got me curious now. Thank you. Any recommendations for any particular books to study or am I good picking up just about anything on the subject?
I think a lot of people are in a similar boat as I though, just not aware of whats out there and just following what the instructors teach. Who may not have made an informed choice regarding their choice of school either.
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>>119508
I’m just getting into bolognese stuff myself because I wanted to get into their style of sword and buckler. What I was recommended was Marrazzo for a general introduction to bolognese shit and manciolino for s&b specific stuff
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>>119508
Generally, Marozzo is considered best after having read either Manciolino if you want to start through sword and buckler or dall'Agocchie if you want to start through sword alone. The reason is that those two sources are easier to understand, easier to approach by themselves. Marozzo is big, as basically everything, but it's not the easiest source to navigate and understand. It's not cryptic or anything, it's just... not very well written.

Frankly, you can pick Jherek Swanger's translation of dall'agocchie, it's pretty good and the source is very easy to use, very didactic. That's what I started with and it's just a real top source, clear, dialogue format is easy to understand and visualize, there's a good progression of the various techniques, there's no images though. You can look at Ilkka Hartikainen videos too. If you can read french, there's some very good french translation by Nimico too.

In the end, if you want to do it for your own goals, that's great, then again, if you have a competent instructor who does Meyer and knows it well, that's hardly a bad thing to focus on either. Meyer is very comprehensive, there's a lot of stuff and you might end up mixing your sources. There's nothing wrong in looking at the stuff that exists and see how they do their stuff, you have to be curious about the sources, that's the core of HEMA. You don't need to practice them, but I think it's important to know what exists.



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