The 12th Major Arcana Edition Christian Esotericism is the inner and/or mystical aspect of the Christian Religion, it includes:>Christian Gnosis (Clement of Alexandria)>Desert Fathers Spirituality (Evagrius Ponticus)>Catholic Contemplative Tradition (Bonaventure)>Hesychasm (Gregory Palamas)>Chivalry (Wolfram von Eschenbach)>Christian Alchemy (Roger Bacon)>Rhineland Mysticism (Meister Eckhart)>Christian Cabala (Johannes Reuchlin)>Paracelsianism (Paracelsus)>Rosicrucianism (Robert Fludd)>Christian theosophy (Jakob Böhme)>Martinism (Louise Claude de Saint-Martin)>Swedenborgianism (Swedenborg)>Anthroposophy (Rudolf Steiner)>Sophiology (Sergei Bulgakov)>Christian Hermeticism (Valentin Tomberg)>Fourth Way (Boris Mouravieff)>Christian Traditionalism (Jean Borella)And much more, so let's continue to talk about it!>Resources (WIP)https://www.john-uebersax.com/plato/cp.htmhttps://jacobboehmeonline.com/https://archive.org/details/awakening-to-divine-wisdom-christian-initiation-into-three-worl-nodrm_202202/mode/1uphttp://janelead.org/resources.htmlhttps://archive.org/details/bookofcontemplat00unde/https://archive.org/details/rudolf-steiner-book-collection/https://swedenborg.com/bookstore/free-ebooks-downloads/https://www.giffordlectures.org/books/theosophy-or-psychological-religionhttps://www.gornahoor.net/?page_id=47
>>34830402Previous thread >>34800651
>>34830929Don't forget that's also one century after Dante, and he puts traitors at the lowest level of Hell, that probably has also something to do with the Hanged Man
The possibility for creating an alternative modernity: https://churchlifejournal.nd.edu/articles/officially-sanctioned-catholic-kabbalah/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1p_Iw1r2Ughttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dEd_WM6-No
>>34831291Some of the people the article says were influenced by Cabala were more theosophers than Kabbalists, even though Soloviev affirmed Kabbalah and Baader pushed Molitor to learn it (his Book on Cabala inspired Gershom Scholem to study the history of Kabbalah academically)Honestly i don't even know what the relationship between Christian theosophy and Kabbalah should be, sometimes i wish Christian Cabala didn't exist just for me to not have this dilemma lol>>34831465I've heard that this guy is controversial, but he's also fron Southern Brazil and the atheist Brazilian i know told me that they're all crazy down there, which means he's probably based lmao
>>34831665>which means he's probably basedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHePhZeqFus
>>34831785Who's the guy right above the moon?
>>34831811>Who's the guy right above the moon?Steve Bannon.
https://traditionalistblog.blogspot.com/2020/04/bannon-traditionalism-dugin-and-olavo.html
>>34830402Nice job adding Bacon and Paracelsus to the OP, should add Georg von Welling and Christian Rosenkrutz as well.
does God really hear my prayers?
>>34831830AhOk so both his and Olavo's wikipedia articles are pure propaganda lolWhy can't they just be neutral? Maybe it's not their fault, it's just that the secondary sources they can find are all biased>>34831877I'll read this right nowThe 21st century has been a very interesting time for politics, but i don't think Third Positionism fueled by Traditionalism can achieve anything sadly, especially since 'the politics of the masses' has devolved into woke people vs the remnants of the new atheism movement lmaoOr atleast that's what went on in the late 2010s, dunno about the early 2020s>>34831885I just give an example for each arbitrary category i invented to put on the OP, Rosenkreutz is Rosicrucianism and i put Fludd for that one, Welling i'm not sure what to put him in, maybe 'Magical theosophy'?>>34831941Nice>>34831959Did Seneca seriously write that?!>>34832001The Etymology is pretty wacky but atleast Paganism as seen by moderns today is a made up lie, deity worship was something for the layfolk, the highest devotion was reserved to the Highest God, the Pythagorean/Platonic One and the Latin-Illyrian Sun God, though personally I don't know of Gaelic, Nordic or Slavic examples>>34832053Yes
Obligatory Sabbath Day Blessed Posting ~>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2qSOAMZq3U>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX1fntvnL64>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByV0p1S7xlE
>>34832176Forgot p3, for some reason its on another channel>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TlRLrk6kug
>>34832081>but i don't think Third Positionism fueled by Traditionalism can achieve anything sadly
>>34832081>Ok so both his and Olavo's wikipedia articles are pure propaganda lolhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7XvQW8HLnI
"The Mutus Liber, or Mute Book (from Latin: Silent Book), is a Hermetic philosophical work published in La Rochelle in 1677. It ranks amongst the major books on alchemy in Early Modern literature, just as much as does Atalanta Fugiens by Michael Maier. It has been reprinted numerous times.Consisting mainly of illustrated plates, Mutus Liber arouses contradictory interpretations. Its meaning was pored over for a long time by authors such as Eugène Canseliet and Serge Hutin, who claimed to be initiated alchemists. More recent studies are striving to use its historical reality in order to reveal its meaning.">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutus_Liber>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM8eld1gbasCommentaries by Eugene Canseliet and Pierre Dujols coming soon.
Chivalry The Mystical Origins of Knighthood by Pierre Dujols an Unfinished Manuscript from around 1916 ~Part One ~>https://voca.ro/1l2B8dnqphH0Will post the rest of part 2 shortly.This one is absolutely fantastic, its some of the source material that was used to create The Mystery of The Cathedrals by Fulcanelli. This one has also never been released online for free before to my knowledge, nor ever done in audiobook form.
https://arktos.com/2018/10/24/modern-statism-as-western-gnosticism-part-1/https://arktos.com/2018/10/25/modern-statism-as-western-gnosticism-part-2/https://arktos.com/2022/07/15/liberalism-is-gnosticism-a-response-to-keith-woods/
>>34832081Welling under Mago-Caballa
https://philos-sophia.org/gnosticism-today/
>>34832225Lmao>>34832528That sounds very interestingI've had my own ideas on this, the world being divided into multiple factions, Anglosphere, Latin America, Continental Europe, Eurasia, China, India, Arab World, Turko-Persia but honestly, this all just ends in 'us vs them', Tradition is a minority everywhere, because Capitalism, Communism and Colonization disrupted it on a world wide scale, just look at New Agers in America, the NRE's of Eastern Europe and East Asia, and all the scam artists that freely roam around Africa and India (Sadhguru would be my main example for India, for Africa there are too many to count)>>34832537Thanks i've always wanted to know the contents of that book!>>34832597Interesting, i haven't seen the Gnosticism video by Keith Woods lol but i do know of him>>34832598All right>>34832631Wolfgang Smith says that Gnostics wanted to ascend to higher worlds, now that we are only allowed to believe in materialism they turned it so that the 'higher worlds' aren't 'up' but 'before us' and that we have to 'progress' to reach them, so evolutionism for him is a form of Neo-gnosticism
>>34832680>turned it so that the 'higher worlds' aren't 'up' but 'before us' and that we have to 'progress' to reach themThis reminds me of Lovejoy's idea about about the Great Chain of Being. I don't remember the exact wording, but something to the effect that it becomes disconnected from the heavens and falls over on its side. So that it becomes temporalized. This would make much of the modern outlook a temporalization of the Great Chain. People today think of the past (and its inhabitants) as primitive and the future as being populated by enlightened and "godlike" future-humans.
>>34832537>>34832680Chivalry by Pierre Dujols Part 2 ~>https://voca.ro/15JRuVu92eiz
>>34832777Blessed digits for a Blessed Brothers Pierre Dujols, a good and brilliant man who had a very difficult life because he suffered from a severe illness that rendered him bedridden for an extended period eventually killing him.
https://patristicevangelism.wordpress.com/2016/10/20/chain-of-being-review/
>>34832680Consider not only the Arthurian and Grail legends from the light of what Pierre Dujols says about the Middle Ages, but also Brothers Grimm, Mother Goose, Cyrano De Bergerac, Dante, Rabelais, Hugo, Perrault, and others.The underlying notions apply to all of them because Chivalry was largely intertwined with History and its re-visioning as well as Fairy Tales and Nursery Rhymes.
>>34833004Honestly it's the fault of the Catholic church that they weren't able to triumph over this, were they really that weak from Protestantism to be able to stop it?Ehhh, atleast the counter-modern movements never died out>>34833186>DanteI do, as well as the Troubadours and Minnesingers
https://portalconservador.com/livros/Rama-Coomaraswamy-The-Destruction-of-the-Christian-Tradition.pdf
>>34833527>Guenon>"We've lost our Esoterism in Catholicism!">Vatican II happens>Coomaraswamy>"Now we've lost our Esoterism in Catholicism!!!"Btw why is Rama Catholic? His Father was a Hindu Traditionalist
>>34833591>Btw why is Rama Catholic?
In Gnosticism there is supposedly three humanities, the material, the animated, and the spiritual. But don’t we all have the spark of life? This is very confusing to me.
>>34833860Dunno (this isn't a Gnosticism thread)Maybe everyone has the spark but only a few can be animated, and even fewer spiritual
>>34833591That's not the point of the book, it's pretty much only dealing with the exoteric subject of the earthly Church and its current state. The word "esoteric" actually never even appears in the book.
>>34834005Ah ok lmao
>>34830402So i looked into Platonic Orientalism, the Zoroastrianism and Hermetic 'branches' are superficial, the former is present in Cusa although he wasn't an Orientalist, people like Ficino just based themselves on him, the latter gets incorporated into the Mosaic 'branch' of CabalaFor Cabala, i can't see any concept that isn't already in Medieval Christianity or in the later theosophy, so i think the only thing we can i corporate is the 'study of the Name', YHVH as an expression Pythagoreanism (it's a 4 letter name, and 1+2+3+4 make 10), besides that an optional influence is the teachings on the 22 Letters, since the 22 Greek Letters mysticism in 'About the Mystery of the Letters' is German-only right now sadlyGematria is rejected by people like Fludd, 'only the Bereshit and Merkabah are true Cabala' (paraphrasing, by Bereshit he means Theogony and by Merkabah Cosmology)
Any good sources on Christian Kabbalah?
>>34834593It's literally all either in Latin or GermanThe only thing you can get ia Mathers partial translation of Cabala Denudata, as well as a big pool of Hermetic Qabalah from authors that are in some way associated with the Golden Dawn
>>34834615>Mathers partial translation of Cabala Denudatahttp://iapsop.com/ssoc/1912__mathers___kabbala_denudata.pdf
>>34834726Yup that one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfZOgEx4TSY
>>34834593Best sources are Boehme, Paracelsus, Agrippa, Vaughan, Trithemius, Martinism and Rosicrucianism. Also David Chaim Smith. You can also read more works of Theosophy by people like William Law, as well as John Dee and Robert Fludd.
>>34834593>>34836070Oh, and studying some Ramon Llull and Nicholas Cusanus would also be good, check out the Alchemy Website and the Jacob Boehme site (in the OP) for more
>>34830402Videos on Gnosis, its various types (SPG, UPG & VPG) and Gnosticism:https://youtu.be/0F7knBtLsNs https://youtu.be/260L-DEZVQ0https://youtu.be/diHf_Tup6tE
>>34830402Last night i had an epiphany related to Cusa and Böhme while thinking of CabalaThe Pythagorean 4 and 10 in Cusa easily correspond to the 10 Forms of Böhme and his followersThe 4 of Cusa are the 4 Unities, God, Nous, Soul and Corporeality, they have each a corresponding number in 10, 1 and 1, 2 and 4, 3 and 7, 4 and 10For Böhme the 10th Form is God, the 9th is God's Wisdom, the 8th is the 'Fire of Purgatory' and the 7th up to the 1st are the 7 Source-spirits, so the 1st Cusan number corresponds to the 10th Form, and the same goes for the 10th Cusan and 1st Form of BöhmeThe 1 and the 10th Form are self explanatory, 4 in the 10 nunber system corresponds to the 9th Form, this works because Wisdom just below the Trinity, which you can argue makes it the '4 in God', 7 and the 8th Form work because Gichtel writes that in Nature the 8th Form appears inside the 4th, which corresponds to the number 7 in Cusa, and finally 10 and the 1st Form work becausein Pythagoreanism 4=10 basically, and all of those correspond to the 7 Source-spiritsI know this sounds like Schizo ramblings, but if i could explain it with visuals it all makes much more sense lmao
I wish more people could appreciate Esoteric Christianity without sliding into New Age style religious relativism. It's truly the most beautiful expression of the Christian faith and yet it always breeds religious indifference. Very few esotericists burn with the fires of love like Catherine of Siena
>>34838035It's also incredibly obscure, on one hand Medieval Studies is incredibly recent, and on the other hand modern theosophy is overshadowed by the Theosophical Society, i like how Berndyaev calls them 'less Theosophers and more Cosmosophers' (paraphrasing)
>The three Great MedievalsThomas Aquinas (Theology)Meister Eckhart (Mysticism)Dante Alighieri (Esotericism)>These three are the core of the Western Tradition
https://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2539&context=ocj
https://esoteric.msu.edu/Archive/Welling.html
https://www.smith.edu/news-stories/2004-05/McVeighBook.html
Matthew 19:30, "But many that are first will be last, and the last will be first."
>>34838035>without sliding into New Age style religious relativismwhat shows the sliding? Saying that God inside of us?
Proverbs 3:13-18:"Happy is the man who finds wisdom and the man who gains understanding, for her proceeds are better than the profits of silver, and her gain than fine gold. She is more precious than rubies, and all the things you may desire cannot compare with her. Length of days is in her right hand, in her left hand riches and honor. Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace. She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her, and happy are all who retain her."Wisdom 7:26-28:"For she is a reflection of eternal light, a spotless mirror of the working of God, and an image of his goodness. Although she is but one, she can do all things, and while remaining in herself, she renews all things; in every generation she passes into holy souls and makes them friends of God, and prophets."
Micah 6:8: "He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God."Psalm 106:3: "Blessed are those who act justly, who always do what is right."Proverbs 21:15: "When justice is done, it brings joy to the righteous but terror to evildoers."Isaiah 1:17: "Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow."
Genesis 11:4: "Then they said, 'Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.'"Genesis 11:7-8: "'Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.' So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city."
Corinthians 4:18: "So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal."
Proverbs 9:6: "Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding."1 Corinthians 3:18, Paul encourages the believers in Corinth, "Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise in this age, you should become 'fools' so that you may become wise."
Romans 13:1: "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God."
>>34839387>>34839412>>34839455Time for more reading>>34839495The easiest way to divide New Age from Tradition is the concept of 'Evolution', in Traditional Christian Esotericism we aren't in the middle of evolution, instead we strive to -go back- to the Adamic state before the fall, whereas New Age teachings speak of a progression to super states in the future, the past being primitive and wrong>>34839664Are you the same anon as >>34839387 or do you just have a simmiliar posting style?
>>34839711Are there any other differences?
>>34839711I am not that anon, just bored and figured it would be fun to post tarot-related Christian symbology. Wheel of Furtune, High Priestess, Tower, Moon, Fool and Emperor in order so far.
>>34839712A bunch, like the rejection of the Exoteric 'i'm Spiritual, not Religious' or Syncretism 'let's mix everything together', Traditionally for someone to practice Esotericism they have to be even more Exoterically active than the usual person, and Syncretism is frowned upon and only Synthesis is accepted (uniting simmiliar ideas through cultural contact, like how Augustine saw simmiliarities to Plotinus and Christianity and used Neoplatonic theory in his works)
>>34839728Oh, and Justice here>>34839566
>>34839728Ah ok, that anon just posts a lot of images and links, since you were posting Bible quotes with a trip i thought you might be him with his trip on lol
>>34839387Thanks fren. Downloaded.>>34836070>>34836092>>34835740Excellent top notch resources, a lot of pdfs and mp3s of these authors spread throughout these threads by different posters.>>34834593Georg von Welling and Fulcanelli.>>34833251Those three are discussed directly in the book, but the others I mentioned are not and have to be inferred.
https://filebin.net/y8d5dlyefcp8p07r
>>34835740Michael Martin and Roger Buck along with various other YouTube channels are really good resources on this stuff, Footnotes2Plato is also really good if anyone is interested in that type of thing. Wolfgang Smith has a lot of interviews on various channels that are worth checking out.
>>34832775
https://lamusdworski.wordpress.com/2016/12/23/decorations/#more-1752
https://mythoamerica.substack.com/p/the-metaphysics-of-waffle-house
>>34839495More saying that the exoteric facets of religion don't matter at all and disregarding cult and liturgy in favor of a purely individualistic position that syncretizes many different religions into a mish mash. The attitude of Tomberg in Meditations on the Tarot is what I would say is correct. Esoteric Christians are in service of the Exoteric Church
https://counter-currents.com/2019/09/the-revolutionary-army-of-the-infant-jesus/
>>34842037Is that the same person who talked about King Charles' Traditionalism?>>34842174That's why we are Platonists honestly
>>34832322https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TM0yN-upt4
>>34840160>>34840181Interesting. While I haven’t heard of or seen straw being used to cover the entire floor, there is a tradition in Germany of using it to make star-shaped ornaments (“Strohsterne”) for Christmas. Never heard about this tradition potentially having any magickal relevance though, usually the explanation given was that since Christ was born in a stable and slept in a manger, that his birth should be celebrated with similarly simple means - i.e. by using materials that his parents could have afforded (so no silver and gold).
>>34842565As you can see, these stars can be very complex, and take a long time to make. Also, they require a lot of patience and concentration to assemble. The process of making them is quite meditative, in fact, perhaps the closest analogue we have in the West to the Buddhist practice of making mandalas. And while these straw stars can be re-used the next year if you treat them carefully and store them somewhere dry so they don’t get ruined by mold, they are by their nature somewhat ephemeral as well.
>>34842524>Is that the same person who talked about King Charles' Traditionalism?Yes, same person.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxEdBonF87o
>>34842644OH IT'S THAT GIRL THAT TALKED TO MEME ANALYSIS ON A STREAMHow things go around and back to you lmao
>>34842565>Never heard about this tradition potentially having any magickal relevance though, usually the explanation given was that since Christ was born in a stable and slept in a manger, that his birth should be celebrated with similarly simple means
>>34842644Checked & kek’edSure, let’s summon an entity with nearly 2 billion followers worldwide to see if we can do some damage on it. Do Reddit witches really?
>>34842565>there is a tradition in Germany of using it to make star-shaped ornaments (“Strohsterne”) for Christmas.
>>34842752Yeah, I haven’t heard of those, although straw angels, as well as stars (and sometimes angels) made from paper are also common in Germany.
>>34830402Just found a great book that explains 'occult phenomena' through Thomismhttps://archive.org/details/occultphenomenai00wies
For me the gospel of Christ is split into two parts:>1. Rhetoric to tell you to act a certain way in society>2. Tales of miracles, which is another form of rhetoric to make you believe that the rhetoric from [1] is from a divine sourceMy main problem is [2]. I can follow all of the rhetoric in [1] if there was something that could convince me of the truth of [2] but I cannot find anything to convince of that. You can write down anything on paper and say someone did a miracle, but without proof how can I believe?>in b4 blessed are they who believe without seeing^That's more rhetoric, to fight against this exact point of not seeing the miracles that many would argue against the gospel. I'm not trying to shit on this thread or Christianity. My path in life so far has been Atheist > Deist > Christian > Back to Deist again, after the aforementioned analysis of the gospels. You can tell me to go full retard, and do a full on Kierkegaardian leap of faith and "just do it", but why should I make that leap of faith for Jesus and not someone else? I come to you esoteric Christians to see if you have something that can solve this problem that caused me to lose my faith.
>>34843463That's a very good question, and one that I've struggled with myself more than I'd like to admit.It can certainly feel sometimes like you're standing alone at the abyss, and everyone else who preaches the gospel is standing a safe distance away and simply egging you on to make the jump. And perhaps you've even made an attempt before, but your faith wasn't strong enough, and you fell, breaking all your bones in the process.Either way, let me give you two good reasons to do it anyways.1. You'll never know what's on the other side unless you try2. You will regret not having tried more than having tried and failedAt least that has been my experience. Now I do think it's important not to be reckless about it, because the risk of falling is quite real. And if the people who are egging you on really are such bad faith followers of Jesus that they wouldn't take care of you if you tried and failed, and instead would abandon you and leave you to your fate, then you should absolutely try and find some other people first to go do this with.Basically, what I'm saying is, don't start with things that require HUGE leaps of faith. Try smaller ones first. Every time you trust someone else without having a reason to, that's a leap of faith. So instead of trusting them with something big, trust them with something small first. Most people will behave the same in big things as they do in small things, unless they are some sort of scam artists. The latter you can recognize by their being overly invested into your believing them without any proof because that would somehow "jinx" it. Note for instance, that Jesus did not have any issue with Thomas doubting him, and was happy to let him feels his wounds as proof in order to settle his concerns. Yes, I am aware that this puts most churches and/or pastors in the category of "scam artist". Jesus foretold this in Matthew 24:23-25. Anyone who is indeed a servant of Christ will take no offense at you doubting them.
>>34843463Also, if you think the gospels are only made up of those two things, you may not have read them recently, or never fully (perhaps you've only heard them preached in church).It might help if you actually did that, because you might notice that there are a lot more things in there than you remember. Also, meditate on what you read and ask yourself what he might have meant by those things, and try not to get hung up on some church-approved interpretation. After all, the kingdom of heaven cannot be seen by those who only have earthly eyes, that's why Jesus always speaks in parables when he describes what it is like.Finally, as far as how esotericism might help, try reading some of the books from the reading list (>>34830415), as many of these give first hand accounts of their author's way to Christ and thus can help give you a better idea of what coming to Christ actually means in practice. You might notice that it rarely looks like what the church wants you think it's like. In fact, it's often a difficult, messy, and sometimes painful process full of challenges and hardships, and has landed some of these authors in prison (Gichtel) or exile (Böhme), denounced as heretics, and so on.
>>34844874Remember, Christ also said he did not come to bring peace on earth but a sword (Matthew 10:34) and that following him would create conflict even with your closest relatives (Matthew 10:35-36), but if you avoid that, you are not worthy of him (Matthew 10:37-38).
>>34843463Read the Church Fathers. Understand why they believed and you'll have the reasons why you should believe.
>>34843463First of all the Kierkegaardian leap of faith is not 'going full retard', but i digressWhat would you need to be convinced? For example, Swedenborg has miracles that were documented by the Swedish state in the 18th century, would that be enough or is it too old or not from a source you can trust?>but why should I make that leap of faith for Jesus and not someone else?What religions have what claims that would require a Kierkegaardian leap of faith?
https://euelectionsbulgaria.com/esoteric-bulgaria/
>>34846087>>34846098Isn't that just a bulgarian cult?
>>34846162>Isn't that just a bulgarian cult?Possibly. Don't know very much about them yet. Picked up a copy of Lorimer's book about Deunov at a used bookstore, some months ago, and read the introductory portions. One of the things from that book that sticks out in my mind is the part about the Bogomils.I first first became aware of Deunov's followers via a fun chapter in Michael Palin's New Europe book. Whatever they are, they seemed relevant to the theme this thread.I haven't yet tracked down a source for the Cardinal Angelo Roncalli (Pope John XXIII) quote that is sometimes presented by Deunov's admirers. It may be that the only source for it is Lorimer's book. I'm kind curious and I may dig a little deeper, to see if I can find people from outside their circle corroborating it. Apparently, it's from a time when Roncalli was the Vatican's ambassador to Bulgaria.https://bnr.bg/en/post/100716827/novel-of-dimitar-shumnaliev-devoted-to-great-white-brotherhood
Is there really not a single work by von Baader available in English? Really tragic. Surely some publisher has something, or a work exists on archive.org or annas-archive.org?
>>34846313You know what's funny about the Bogomils? They're called Bulgarian but from the maps they look like most lived in Bosnia lol>>34846699Dunno what annas-archive is but yeah you can't find Baader anywhere in english outside of Antoine Faivre's commentaries on some of his ideasIn German his complete works (Sämtliche Werke) are all available on Archive.orgI think that we don't have to translate the whole 12 volumes, each one has a large preface by his disciples that summary his thought, so if anyone wants to bring Baader to the anglosphere they just have translate all those volume prefaces (Baader also has Böhme syndrome where you don't understand what he's talking about, so the prefaces can be read on their own lmao)
>>34844914I want to point out something here that I'm not sure is super obvious in English, but naturally comes to mind in German:"Cross" in German mean "Kreuz", but "Kreuz" also means "spine". When Jesus says take up or pick up your cross, the esoteric meaning is to pick up (or lift up) your spine.When you look at "traditional" explanations of this phrase, such as https://www.gotquestions.org/take-up-your-cross.html, you find a lot of talk about self-sacrifice and shouldering your burdens, and that's not wrong *per se*, because in an esoteric sense, your spine is certainly involved in that process. But it still kinda misses the forest for the trees, I think. Also, this sheds a completely different light on related things he tells his followers to do, such as getting rid of (or selling) or their belongings and giving to the poor. The point is not to live in abject poverty, but to get rid of the burden of earthly attachments, which are weighing you down in a metaphysical sense (i.e. they prevent you from correctly lifting up or carrying your spine). Consider expressions such as something "weighing heavily on your shoulders". Often, those are not even physical things, but worries related to physical things - for instance, how or whether you'll be able to pay all of your bills on time. These sort of worries about your material belongs is what he is telling people to get rid of, meaning you don't have to live as a pauper on the streets if you can comfortably afford an apartment, but rather, to take a line from the Daodejing:>In dwelling, live close to the ground.>In thinking, keep to the simple.>In governing, don't try to control.>In work, do what you enjoy.All of these things have the effect of reducing the metaphysical burden of worry, and thus, have the effect of naturally allowing your spine to lift and straighten itself.
>>34847905Nice idea but are you sure that cross also means spine ik Greek/Aramaic/Hebrew? If not then it doesn't work as wellIn my language we call it cross too, i always thought it's because the spine and shoulders make a cross shape and that was connected to the cross as both the roman torture device and the cross as the Christian symbol
>>34848269>Nice idea but are you sure that cross also means spine ik Greek/Aramaic/Hebrew? If not then it doesn't work as wellAlright, let’s take a look then. The word used in the original Greek is “stauros”: https://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_4716.htmAccording to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stauros): > Stauros (σταυρός) is a Greek word for a stake or an implement of capital punishment. The Greek New Testament uses the word stauros for the instrument of Jesus' crucifixion, and it is generally translated pillar, tree in Christian contexts. > The word stauros comes from the verb ἵστημι (histēmi: "straighten up", "stand"), which in turn comes from the Proto-Indo-European root *steh2-u- "pole", related to the root *steh2- "to stand, to set"Notice how all of the words used in this context (pillar, stake, tree, upright, etc.) can also be easily related to the spine. Whether or not that word *de facto* means (or used to mean) spine is rather irrelevant, the point is what is implied by the symbolism, and that works out very nicely. Also note the overlap with Isaiah’s injunction to “make straight the paths of the Lord” (Is. 40:3), which is echoed by John the Baptist (John 1:23, Matt. 3:3 and others). Don’t bother with the rest of the article, that’s just a bunch of “experts” arguing semantics, if you want to place your trust in them, I got another COVID booster to sell you. >In my language we call it cross tooPerhaps your forefathers are trying to tell you something… unless you still believe in accidents (hint: there are none).
>>34830402Yeah now i am sure that for Kabbalah, we should treat it like Catholic theology does Maimonides, it's influential buy we don't don't really have active 'Maimodeans'
>>34830402Bump
>>34847254>They're called Bulgarian but from the maps they look like most lived in Bosnia lolInteresting.
>>34847254>>34851484Uhh, not sure if you were aware, but it's not THAT unusual in Europe for large-ish ethnic minorities to live within the borders of another sovereign state. Remember the Sudeten Germans, for whose sake Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia? Before WW2, borders their changed quite frequently and often drastically. Faster than people could move, occasionally. Hungary was once part of Austria, and at another time, Austria part of Germany. Bosnia and Serbia were once part of Yugoslavia, and that's right next to Bulgaria. It certainly doesn't seem all that strange, considering.
Some more cool stuff I rescued from the Faceborg. Not sure if I've seen it in a previous thread before, but I didn't see it in this one.
>>34853140As for interpretation... paging Dr. Lovatabitz
>>34853146And one more, because all good things come in threes.
>>34830402if anyone could, id like a reading about my love life pls hehehehehe
>>34853155Checked and kek'edNot sure if /r/lostanons or just a prankster, but /div/ is this way >>34848943
>>34853155Ah fudge it, I'll indulge you anyways. Just so next time you'll be more careful about what you wish for.Deathshould I even continue? LMAO7 of Wands rx, 3 of Cups rxBruhh... just what I figured. No money, no honey, you're not even making an attempt. Complete disaster. Sucks to be you, man. Might as well come seek Christ with the rest of us.
>>34853146Actually, even as a complete alchemy noob, I guess I can make some sense of this one myself.Clearly, the bubbles (or pearls) in the corners are the four elements, and the circle contains the 12 zodiacs. However, something is off about their order. Not sure what's up with that. Also, the signs underneath them are not their common astrological signs, but not sure what they stand for. Probably part of the secret formula or something.There's a blindfolded man standing in the foreground, and another one chasing rabbits, I'm assuming they're sorta lost. Meanwhile, the steps to the temple are the 7 steps of the alchemical process: calcination, sublimation, solution, putrefaction, distillation, coagulation, tinctur. Clearly, the temple is where you want to be, because that's where the action is, although I'm not quite sure WHAT action it is –almost looks like the devil having dinner with... a naked lady? Sign me up lolThere's both the sun and the moon on the rooftop, and it's painted half daylight and half nighttime, something that inevitably seems to be present in all alchemical paintings. Then there's a bird on top, maybe it's the Christ Pelican? Or a Phoenix?The figures on the mountain in the background puzzle me the most. From the left: a lady in green with a flaming heart in one hand and a mirror in the other, a knight in full armor carrying sword and shield, and a king carrying a scepter. From the right: a man with a sickle and... is that a baby he's holding? Another lady, this one in red and purple and wearing a crown, carrying a scepter and uh... a bundle of sticks (kek)? Another lady in yellow and blue, with devils horns(?), carrying a lamp and a halberd. And on top, a little dancing devil with some sort of dagger perhaps, and a star in the other hand. Man... I need to get me some of that *tinctur* that whoever painted this was clearly imbibing, because this party looks lit AF.
>>34853150reminds me of the law of one
>>34853250>The figures on the mountain in the background puzzle me the mostThey are the 7 metals/planets
>>34851927>Before WW2, borders there changed quite frequently and often drastically. Faster than people could moveYes. I was born in a country where...depending on what year you were born in...you were born in a different country. Borders were constantly shifting, back and forth.I have a paternal grandparent and a maternal one...that were from opposite ends of the same country. And both of them probably felt closer to the cultures of their neighboring countries (on each side) then they did to the culture of the country of which they were officially citizens.One of the them spoke the local language with a thick accent, reminiscent of the neighboring country's language. The other grandparent spoke the local language much better, but spoke a dialect that pronounced certain letters in a different way than how people from the center of the country would pronounce them. Both grandparents were culturally much closer to their neighboring country's ancestral ways of being. I can imagine how that "borderlands" experience may have shaped their views of themselves and how it ended up shaping their children (my parents). Having "modern historical consciousness" imprinted on my way of thinking, my mind automatically defaults to developmental ways of seeing this whole thing, even though I should know better.And so I can't help but notice that aspects of that borderland experience have found their way to me also, even though I now live in a country far, far away from where I was born. Still I find myself living in the one place in that new country where the two dominant cultures and languages intermingle, in the most pronounced ways. Where old grudges and grievances still echo. For this reason, and for others also, I find it interesting that some (or many) Bogomils may have lived in Bosnia. When I Googled the word "Bogomils", to find a pic to include in this response, the first few hits had titles like linking the Bogomils to Bosnia.
>>34851927Trsut me -i know- about that lmaoIt's just that there is no documented Bulgarian minority there during the period the Bogomils, existed, i don't think it was an ethnic religion so it probably had Serbo-Croatian followers in Bosnia as well>>34853787The Eastern European experience
>>34853818People don’t think it be like it is, but it do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPGzHA5XFAM
>>34830402>Christian EsotericismNo such thing. >25 postersThis thread glows, it's just a distraction to keep you from God, and who has time to dump all those pics and keep this alive?These threads are such a joke. You want to delve into LE EPIC ESOTERICISM (occultism) but you don't even understand prophecy. Also notice how this thread doesn't evoke the same sort of hostility from the average hell-bound /x/ poster who usually can't help but get angry at the old Christian generals that weren't just thinly veiled occultism.
>>34853949>No such thing.Then what are the topics listed in the OP?>This thread glowsThree letter thread glows so brightBut yeah it's been quiet this past week>who has time to dump all those pics and keep this alive?It's called being passionate>but you don't even understand prophecy.What are you talking about?>Also notice how this thread doesn't evoke the same sort of hostility from the average hell-bound /x/ poster who usually can't help but get angry at the old Christian generals that weren't just thinly veiled occultism.There was a guy who spammed 'Jesus is the Antichrist' but all his posts gor delted
>>34853949You glow
>>34853949Oh hey, it's the demiurge paying us a visit, everybody be nice and say "hi demiurge".>This thread glowsNibba YOU glow lmao
Cyclical Christianity? Everything happening as described in revelation but eventually the saved become the angels of the next Kalpa with a new humanity being created and a new rebellion taking place? Alternativly, with Enoch/Metatron who is also called "little Yaweh" becoming the God of the next creation?
>>34854036We are Gnostics lol>>34854041Clement of Alexandria wrote that every 1000 years or so Saints become Angels, Angels Archangels, and so on, but that has been rejected by Nicene ChristianityWe just keep it simple, a single exitus and reditus, we can't know anything more, the exitus is God's creation, reditus the return of it to God
>>34854041Oh also Metatron and the Shekinah in Merkabah and Kabbalah most likely come from Christian Logos theology and Medieval Catholic Marian devotion, we just forget to notice that because in our mind Judaism is first and then comes Christianity so we don't expect Judaism adopting Christian concepts
>>34854149Either that, or Moses de León was tripping on ergot.
>>34853949>in 1351 at a synod under the presidency of the Emperor John VI Cantacuzenus, hesychast doctrine was established as the doctrine of the Orthodox Church.I don't know about the other stuff, but this isn't considered occultism
>>34854149Nah, pretty sure Metatron is form second Enoch.
>>34854468Lol>>34854539The origin of Hesychasm lies in Symeon the New Theologian who combined the two streams of Christian Esotericism during the first Millenium, the theosophy of the Alexandrian School (Clement and Origen) with the Spirituality of the Desert Fathers>>34854588Metatron seems to have been first identified with 'Lesser YHVH' in 3 Enoch, it's dating still points at it being influenced by Christianity, and if really isn't the case then it originates from Philo of Alexandria's (he was a Hellenistic Jew who lived around the time of Jesus) Logos theology
>>34830402Where is the pissi cuckitini tarot card?
Drinking wine, in measures, does it benefit the christian soul?
>>34855426I watched a video once that claimed that we've discovered that any ammount of alcohol is bas for your brainBesides that, folk tradition claims that one glass of wine a day keeps you healthySoul wise it has no benetits outside the Eucharist
>>34855426>>34855636IDK man, the Bible mentions wine almost 250 times, and very rarely in a negative context. There is no general prohibition on it, except for priests entering the tabernacle (Ex. 10:9) and pregnancy (Judges 13:4), and in fact, it is part of the daily offering to Yahweh prescribed in Ex. 29:38-42. There are some warnings, however, not to drink too much of it (Proverbs 20:1, 21:17). So I guess it's cool, as long as you're not going to church drunk, and depending on the size of your measures ;)
>>34843463>Tales of miracles, which is another form of rhetoric to make you believe that the rhetoric from [1] is from a divine sourceMany, perhaps all, of the miracles in the New Testament are allegories. They're not just a demonstration of divine power, they symbolically teach you about Christian theology. An example off the top of my head would be when Jesus turned water into wine. The water he turned into wine was intended for "Jewish rites of purification" (John 2:5). The wine symbolises Jesus' blood which purifies us, doing away with the need for the purification rituals of the Mosaic law.
>>34855736>Going to church drunkOr leaving it drunk!! Hahaha.
>>34855736Yeah my opinion on it is neutral, personally i don't drink any alcohol>>34855898They have esoteric dimensions but all depend on the exoteric literal interpretation
"Donkey Cabbages" (or "The Donkey Cabbage"; German: Der Krautesel) is a German fairy tale collected by the Brothers Grimm, tale number 122. A man shoots birds in a forest and gains magical objects. By also ingesting the heart of one of the bird he shot, he acquires an inexhaustible source of wealth. Later on, his magical abilities and items are stolen by a trio of witches, but regains thanks to a magical herb that causes a transformation into donkeys."Donkey Cabbages by The Brothers Grimm with Commentary by Bernard Roger ~>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey_Cabbages>https://voca.ro/11XNcoYiN2UP>https://voca.ro/1hrPf4LJJmAg
""The True Bride" or "The True Sweetheart" is a German fairy tale collected by the Brothers Grimm in Grimm's Fairy Tales as tale 186.[1]It combines two Aarne-Thompson types: 510, the persecuted heroine, and 884, the forsaken fiancée.[2] Others of the first type include Cinderella, The Sharp Grey Sheep, The Golden Slipper, The Story of Tam and Cam, Rushen Coatie, The Wonderful Birch, Fair, Brown and Trembling and Katie Woodencloak.[3] Other of the second type include The Twelve Huntsmen, The Two Kings' Children, and Sweetheart Roland."The True Bride by The Brothers Grimm with Commentary by Bernard Roger ~>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Bride>https://voca.ro/1mmclCzPmlIL>https://voca.ro/1q39mn93gILm
""The Griffin" is a German fairy tale collected by the Brothers Grimm in Grimm's Fairy Tales (KHM 165).[1][2]It is Aarne-Thompson type 610, Fruit to Cure the Princess; and type 461, Three Hairs from the Devil.[3] The Brothers Grimm noted its similarity to The Devil With the Three Golden Hairs.[1]The opening type is seldom a stand-alone tale; it combines with others, such as type 461, as in this, or type 570, the Rabbit Herd, as in The Three May Peaches, to form a complete tale.[4] The opening also features in Jesper Who Herded the Hares."The Griffon by The Brothers Grimm with Commentary by Bernard Roger ~>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Griffin_(fairy_tale)>https://voca.ro/1lfQ798HLKQX>https://voca.ro/1gjXAXowXV9s
>>34857524Been waiting for you to show up for a whilehttps://pansophers.com/pansophy-theosophy/Have you read this article?
>>34839829Absolutely based and blessed post. This is what im talking about.
>>34857562No. Been busy. About to go again now but ill do my best to be back sometime. Almost read the entire Grimm Cannon now.I did say it was going to be a drastic reduction in posting now.
>>34857572Ah, i just wanted to show it to you since i thought you'd like what it says about Baroque Rosicrucianism
>There is no knowledge that gives us more certainty of Christ's divinity than magic and Kabbalah.Was he right?
>>34860893It's complicated, by magic he meant the angelic kind, that has been tried by people like John Dee with not very good effects, the only angelic theurgy that didn't end in a disaster are the Sacraments, but i can't say they prove Christianity, they are ChristianityFor Kabbalah, at first it was seen as another form of Platonic Orientalism ('Pythagoras got his thought from Kabbalah!') but the more it developed it hit a point where it became clear that it's not agreeing with Christianity, the Christian Cabalists from the time of Rosenroth to Molitor because people who studied 'Jewish Philosophy', nothing more, with our modern understanding of Kabbalah we also know that the Christian-looking parts of it come from Christian influence, the authors of various Kabbalistic texts lived in Spain, Italy and later Poland and Ukraine
>>34858415Right on. Ill be around for a bit today. Maybe ill give it a look after I tend to my online priorities. Thanks for linking it!
"The figure of Mother Goose is the imaginary author of a collection of French fairy tales and later of English nursery rhymes.[1] As a character, she appeared in a song, the first stanza of which often functions now as a nursery rhyme.[2] This, however, was dependent on a Christmas pantomime, a successor to which is still performed in the United Kingdom.The term's appearance in English dates back to the early 18th century, when Charles Perrault’s fairy tale collection, Contes de ma Mère l'Oye, was first translated into English as Tales of My Mother Goose. Later a compilation of English nursery rhymes, titled Mother Goose's Melody, or, Sonnets for the Cradle, helped perpetuate the name both in Britain and the United States."Mother Goose Stories Commentary by Bernard Roger ~>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Goose>https://voca.ro/1ftMPOqXM2cG
>>34861144Witnessed.
"The Brothers Grimm, Jacob and Wilhelm, were German academics, philologists, cultural researchers, lexicographers, and authors who together collected and published folklore. The brothers are among the best-known storytellers of folk tales, popularizing stories such as "Cinderella", "The Frog Prince", "Hansel and Gretel", "Little Red Riding Hood", "Rapunzel", "Rumpelstiltskin", "Sleeping Beauty", and "Snow White". Their first collection of folk tales, Children's and Household Tales, began publication in 1812. The Brothers Grimm spent their formative years in the town of Hanau in the Landgraviate of Hesse-Kassel. Their father's death in 1796 (when Jacob was eleven and Wilhelm was ten) caused great poverty for the family and affected the brothers many years after. Both brothers attended the University of Marburg, where they developed a curiosity about German folklore, which grew into a lifelong dedication to collecting German folk tales. The rise of Romanticism in 19th-century Europe revived interest in traditional folk stories, which to the Brothers Grimm represented a pure form of national literature and culture. With the goal of researching a scholarly treatise on folk tales, they established a methodology for collecting and recording folk stories that became the basis for folklore studies. Between 1812 and 1857 their first collection was revised and republished many times, growing from 86 stories to more than 200. In addition to writing and modifying folk tales, the brothers wrote collections of well-respected Germanic and Scandinavian mythologies, and in 1838 they began writing a definitive German dictionary which they were unable to finish during their lifetimes."Brothers Grimm Commentary by Bernard Roger ~>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brothers_Grimm>https://voca.ro/1m5mnMz7VhEm
>>34856412>They have esoteric dimensions but all depend on the exoteric literal interpretationYou keep saying that, but in my view it’s only half of the truth. In reality, the exoteric and esoteric interpretation depend on each other. First of all, why would anyone be interested in esoteric Christianity unless they already accepted the exoteric form?>Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.Matthew 10:32-33>If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?John 3:12Second, the opposite is true: the exoteric depends on the esoteric. All spiritual work has to be completed internally first before it can be accomplished externally. The exoteric manifestation of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross is the outward proof of that inward achievement. >No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.John 3:13
>>34857562Just took a quick glance and it certainly does look good, my research concurs with the notion that Martinism, Rosicrucianism, and Freemasonry are all truly one in the same idea at root but have been diced up. The Compass of The Wise and other tractates discuss this in great detail actually (although it doesnt mention Martinism, only Masonry and Rosicrucianism, not sure if the book was maybe published before the dawning of Martinism).
>>34853140This one is a classic.>>34853146This one I posted a lot before myself.>>34853150I also believe I posted this one in a previous thread, and yes as Our Beloved Brothers Grimm makes mention of ALL GOOD THINGS COME IN THREES!
>>34853644Witnessed.
>>34830402>Esoteric Christianity Livestream that just came outhttps://youtu.be/j8W6iHFJ2rg>>34862612Alright>>34862674The literal acts as the groundwork for the spiritual, the reason the spiritual depends on the literal is for there to be a set of rules for the different interpretations, without those we end up with wacky interpretations like 'the Elohim are aliens'For Dionysius the Areopagite the ascent to God begins in the lower and proceeds to the higher, from the Symbolic to the Cataphatic and ending with the Apophatic, the concept of 'inner completion' and then 'outer completion' is something else but connected to it, where you ascend by yourself and then help the world ascend >>34862688Is it from the 18th century?
"Martin Ruland the Elder (1532, in Freising – 3 February 1602), also known as Martinus Rulandus or Martin Rulandt, was a German physician and alchemist. He was a follower of the physician Paracelsus.""Martin Ruland the Younger (11 November 1569 – 23 April 1611), also known as Martinus Rulandus or Martin Rulandt, was a German physician and alchemist."Allegory from an Alchemical Dictionary by Martin Ruland The Younger read by Adam McLean ~>https://voca.ro/1bX7IU3TdsHQ
>>348628561779 was the original publication I believe.>>34862868Forgot the wikis for this one ~>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Ruland_the_Elder>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Ruland_the_Younger"Guglielmo Gratarolo or Grataroli or Guilelmus Gratarolus (16 May 1516, Bergamo – 16 April 1568, Basel) was an Italian doctor and alchemist.">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guglielmo_GrataroloLadder of The Philosophy by Guglielmo Gratarolo ~>https://voca.ro/1ecvl2IpsTQd
>>34862913Yeah if it's german that means that they didn't know about the Elus Coens
>>34862934Yes it is of Germanic Origin. Thanks for clarifying. Im not even remotely as well read on Martinism as I am on FM or RC.That looks like all the vocaroos for today, but ill hang out for a bit.Currently closing out the recording of the Brothers Grimm Cannon as well as the commentaries thereon by Bernard Roger, and just made it halfway through recording the four books of Weidenfeld.So much Work to be done.
>>34862962Basically, Martinez Pasqually created his own Masonic rite based on his magic and theosophy, after his death the his rite the Elus Coens died, but his two friends Willermoz and Saint-Martin continued it, Willermoz freated the Rectified Scottish Rite which only has Masonic rituals, and Saint-Martin left Masonry and followed his 'way of the heart' after having found Jakob Böhme's writtings, he had a little group of friends but there was no initiation to be a memberA century or so later Papus started a Martinist group, simmiliar to the Golden Dawn, but it was very different from it's supposed predecessors
>>34862999Trips of truth.
>>34862640>>34862750>>34863005I am on a roll!
Anyone else here interested in Cannabis or other Vegetable Medicines in Christianity (whether they be prepared in a Spagyric or Alchemical manner or not) ?Time to take some Cannabis Olive Oil with a nano-dose of Oil of Egg mixed in.Also God willing in 2-3 days ill have hit a year clean off opis after a decade of addiction thanks to Gods miracle Vegetable Medicine Ibogaine, and Gods miracle Animal Medicine Bufo-Toad Venom.Glory be to God, have Mercy on us sinners and help us to be lifted up into Thy Mercy, Thy Love, Thy Light, and Thy Compassion oh Lord, and remember us not in the ways of our sin but in the tenderness of Thy Heart being reflected in Our own, oh Lord!
AQAny indication of how my date will go on Sunday (or specifically what I can do to make it go well).It's our fourth, which I guess is a make or break thing. Had mixed results from my deck, which makes sense considering how hot and cold he is, generally.
>>34863139>>34861160
>>34863139>He isYou have to go back.
>>34863165LMAO i'm retarded
Heres a good ol' fashion Philosophical Musing for yall.Lately ive been pondering on the fact that as things get purer and more fit to function in Our Work the more that they also become hyper sensitive to everything and thus the more they are likely to become readily contaminated.The more something is ready to enter the Bridal Chamber the more it is also extremely fragile and sensitive to any impurity and defilement.This is a Natural Law and in fact its one of the key ones that the Jews were obessed with the most, to the point that they became so obessed with it they couldnt understand its actual nature and thus they became completely festered over a ritual purity that wasnt properly understood and in turn was unable to be applied practically in a functional manner.None the less it is true that the purer a thing is the more it draws in all it contacts into itself and ingresses it into its own being, when done properly this will allow the Heavenly to couch itself into the Earthly.
>>34862856Well, have you walked on water yet? Or fed the multitudes using only five loaves of bread and two fish? Have you healed any lepers or paralytics, or brought the dead back to life? If not, how do you plan on accomplishing these things before convincing yourself mentally that doing so is even possible in the first place? And what purpose does your interest in esoteric Christianity serve if the exoteric must come first?
>>34863232>Well, have you walked on water yet? Or fed the multitudes using only five loaves of bread and two fish? Have you healed any lepers or paralytics, or brought the dead back to life?Have you?>how do you plan on accomplishing these things before convincing yourself mentally that doing so is even possible in the first place?You're missunderstanding me, i am not claiming a non-belief in miracles>And what purpose does your interest in esoteric Christianity serve if the exoteric must come first?The exoteric is for the masses, the esoteric for the few that are called, but those few don't have a 'free pass' when it comes to the exoteric, they have to devote themselves to it too
So heres my hearts prayer for a future project. One day I hope to start writting my own collection of Fairy Tales and Nursery Rhymes under the Dr. Lovatabitz moniker. And often I ponder and circulate on ideas for them in my mind and sometimes I even write rough drafts and record them a few times before I delete them.The other day I was thinking of creating a story called "The Caboose that Broke Loose" and previously on /lit/ I had posted my rendition of the time honored classic I have titled "The Ass, The Man, and The Burger".There are a few others in the works as well.
The other day I saw a skinny gril and a rotund gril walking down the street, and when they passed I saw an image of Saturnus and Sol in my mind and starting bursting out laughing as I kept walking.Those Two Brothers, Hearts Bigger Than Their Heads, I Tell You Hwhut!
>>34863337You mean, ones you collected or ones you wrote yourself?
>>34863337The Caboose that Broke Loose has one sole passenger, and it was a Goose, named Dr. Lovatabitz.Geese are so regal and soft and lovely, but also extremely aggressive and if you try to cuddle with them they will attack you aggressively.Mother Goose is coming to deliver a stern 19th Century style lesson on the Lost History of Earth and the Rejuvination and Regeneration and Reintigration of Creation. This lil Goose is gonna bring some correction to Our Dis-function.God bless Geese.
>>34863390I wrote them. But I cant really do any of that stuff for real until if God wills it I will have risen above the rank of Zelator.No author worth his salt writes about these things before having put them into practice properly, the proper practice must come first then the writings.I dont intend to end up like another Fulcanelli.
>My Goose-Girl is SO BRAVE
Heres a fun example of a story I wrote a few years ago thats of a Mother-Goose style that I have memorized.Once upon a time a man saw some Good Things on the Ground. So he got down and his hands and knees to try and get a better look at the Good Things he found there. But still they were too far away and he could not reach them. "GOSH DANGIT, IFN I COULD JUST STRETCH MYSELF OUT A BIT MORE I COULD REACH OUT AND GRAB EM!"
For all intentions and purposes I am doing all in my power to make sure that the Caboose most certainly is going to be breaking loose VERY soon. Its only been 3+ years of the direct intention, 5+ years of general research under the heading of alchemy, and 10+ years of Spiritual and Chemical background practice and research in the making.Boys, this is an official announcement.>The Caboose>Is Breaking>LOOSEIts just like the time that the Three Iron Bands Broke from Faithful Henrys Heart, but The King was anxious and cried out>HENRY>THE COACH>IS>BRRRRRRREEEEAAAAKKKKIIIIIINNNNGGGGG!!!!!!!!
>>34863456Look at this picture.Where is she going?Why such a sharp angle of descent?Why such a serious look?MOMMY?Kind like The Hermit in Tarot, whats he looking at way down there beneath the Mountain?The CabooseIs BreakingLOOSE
>>34863524I don't even know what a caboose is lol
>>34863547The other day I also had the idea that I call "WHATS GOING ON IN THERE???" and its gonna be a story about looking inside to the Philosophical State of things, and showing some allegory or metaphor for their virtues, sins, functions, dysfunctions, impediments, and all the other various Philosophical Facets of being.Came up with a number of funny concepts for what would be a representation of the Philosophical state of something, but the one that ill post for now is that is that it would show me completely shagged and haggard then it would show that inside my Philosophical State was all the Old Masters, all the Animals, Vegetables, and Minerals, all the Celestial bodies, and God are all dancing inside the Lab-Oratory of the Astral College listening to "Watch me Go" by Egg White. The Goose is dancing in the front with aviators on and a mug of boiling hot coffee and working the forge at the same time, and God is doing the dubsman face and position pointing toward the Goose.
>>34863547Thats not a good look dawg. Please look up the definition, promptly.
When God goes to end Time, hes gonna come through the Firmament and be like "GUYS, IM TAKING US THE HELL OUT OF HERE!" and then everything is gonna go up in fire till only Sal, Sul, and Mer, are left.We thought we were the Alchemists, but we were really just the Materia all along.
>>34863289>Have you?Irrelevant, since I am not claiming that outward accomplishment has to come first. As long as you believe that Jesus did all of the things he is claimed to have done, that is enough to consider to esoteric.>The exoteric is for the masses, the esoteric for the few that are called, but those few don't have a 'free pass' when it comes to the exoteric, they have to devote themselves to it tooAgain, why are you working on the esoteric then, instead of dedicating yourself to the exoteric, if that always has to come first? According to your stated belief, you should finish the exoteric before you even begin on the esoteric.
>>34863547A caboose is a crewed North American railroad car coupled at the end of a freight train. Cabooses provide shelter for crew at the end of a train, who were formerly required in switching and shunting, keeping a lookout for load shifting, damage to equipment and cargo, and overheating axles.
>>34863731This is a Loose Goose Caboose
Im getting this shirt and wearing it to my own funeral. Its gonna be like the death of the little red hen, but its gonna be the death of the Loose Caboose Goose.
Time to go back to the bench. Peace yall.
>>34863710Do you mean 'to consider it to be esoteric'?>you should finish the exotericYou can't 'finish' it, you just partake it in more seriously than others, esotericism then functions as the other half of it
>>34864046What?
>>34863931If you believe it can't be finished, how can you believe that Jesus did?
>>34863710>According to your stated belief, you should finish the exoteric before you even begin on the esoteric.This is such a stereotypical modern viewpoint. Like spiritual progress is paperwork you need to do up for your boss before moving on to the next job. Very sad to see people so mindfucked by modernity the very idea of walking a spiritual path is completely foreign to them such that they need to couch it in banal concepts they can understand.
>>34864380Ad hominem. Argument discarded. Take your ego out of the discussion and consider that perhaps me pointing out an inconsistency in your thinking is for your own benefit, because it frees you from laboring under an illusion.Remember, you do not enter the kingdom by righteousness:>What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. As it is written:>“Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”Romans 9:30-33
>>34864242Jesus wasn't a Christian, he is Christianity lolSo he couldn't 'finish the sacraments', his life is a temporal event that we celebrate cyclically, his Divine nature was a temporal also>>34864565I am not >>34864380
>>34864727We're not talking about the sacraments, we're talking about the miracles. How can you believe Jesus accomplished them, but you or I can't, and also believe that in order for the esoteric to have validity, the exoteric has to come first? By that logic no one should be allowed to study esoteric Christianity without walking on water first is what I'm saying.
>>34863289>The exoteric is for the masses, the esoteric for the few that are called, but those few don't have a 'free pass' when it comes to the exoteric, they have to devote themselves to it tooThis, but people (4chan posters being no exception) don't see it that way, they think "it's secret knowledge so therefore I can be lazy" when in reality it's meant for the most devoted adepts. The East is no exception btw, esoteric Hindus are the most devoted to their exoteric practices and duties. Outer and inner are actually not separable.
>>34864912>We're not talking about the sacraments, we're talking about the miracles.Ah then you're confusing somethingI am claiming that the literal scriptural interpretation of miracles is exoteric, not the act of miracle-working, miracles and exorcisms are esoteric>How can you believe Jesus accomplished them, but you or I can't, and also believe that in order for the esoteric to have validity, the exoteric has to come first?Again, because the exoteric literal interpretation of scripture claims that he did those miracles, then the three esoteric interpretations of allegorical, moral and anagogical point to other things through them>By that logic no one should be allowed to study esoteric Christianity without walking on water first is what I'm saying.One ahould be allowed to study Christian Esotericism after being known as a good Christian through going to Church lol>>34864980Bulgakov/Berndyaev/Soloviev (don't remember which one lol) said it best when he critiqued the Theosophical Society, they don't teach -mysteries- like in Christian Esotericism, they just teach their own secrets, secrets are what divide the in group from the out group, mysteries are something you have to contemplate
>Jacob Boehme has to be termed the greatest of Christian gnostics. The word gnosis I employ here not in the sense of the heresies of the first centuries of Christianity, but in the sense of knowledge basic to revelation and dealing not with concepts, but with symbols and myths; contemplative knowledge, and not discursive knowledge. This is also a religious philosophy or theosophy. ~ Nikolai Berdyaev
Thoughts on The Mirror of Simple Souls?
Why are pastors and most Christians so out of shape. If we were made in God's image should we not strive to show off his perfection physically through ourselves? I'm proposing a Bateman-esque level of self care. Christian PsychoThis may read like a shitpost but I am 100% dead serious.
>>34867106I consider the same thing. In my experience it seems the "music pastor" seems to be most affected by a tendency toward morbid obesity, desu. Usually the head pastor and the outreach pastors are not swole but at what one would consider a normal BMI, albeit weak.I think building physical strength reflective of the spiritual strength and mental strength we aim to build is a good starting point. Nothing screams a lack of self discipline like an obeastGood post.
ITT: Christians try salvaging their religion with pagan traditions.
>>34866682It's good albeit a bit controversial, check out Mechtild of Madgeburg and Hadewijch for simmiliar writtings>>34867106>>34867106Back in the days of Early Christendom monks were supposed to all be physically fit, iirc Ascetic began as a word used for people who trained themselves physically, by 1000 AD that tradition died off but got revived multiple times during the centuries, now it's back to being dead>>34867353Christianity is Esoteric Paganismhttps://www.gornahoor.net/?p=7152
OP looked so cool and then you guys are talking about retards like steve bannon? Lol what gives. Guess being around the material alone doesnt guarantee one being positively affected by it, which is unfortunate.
>>34868475Feel free to start a better topic we can talk about in hereHe got brought up because he is a Traditionalist, personally i live in Europe so I don't care much about US Politics
>>34868132>It's good albeit a bit controversialThis guy said some interesting stuff:https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/34444953/#q34459504I also did some research into it myself and discovered the text was apparently quite popular and influential when it was distributed anonymously (sometimes being attributed to Blessed John of Ruusbroec), makes me think the accusations of heresy are due more to the political climate at the time (the same one that led to false accusations against the Templars who were innocent and Meister Eckhart who has since been cleared of any wrongdoing) and Marguerite's refusal to defend herself than any actual heresy.
>>34868654As of now it's in a 'gray' area, because of how the Church is today it's probably fine, from a Protestant point of view it's even more so lol
>>34868475I like Bannon, seems like a cool guy
>>34868489I guess its to be expected that threads about mysticism on 4chan gain superficial interest of weird politically motivated people who don't have the same motivations a sensible Theurgist might have. I'm happy to have these conversations elsewhere.
>>34832081>Why can't they just be neutral?Have you seen who runs Wikipedia? There's no possibility of neutrality on there anymore and there never will be lol (although neutrality is actually not possible, you have to take a side and you either side with or against the Truth, as Jesus said), even one of the cofounders said as much (Larry Page). It's managed by militant new atheists and quasi-marxists now, their main sources are The Guardian and other shitty liberal news sites.
>>34869369Sorry, not Larry Page, that's one of the Google guys, I meant Larry Sanger*
>>34869282Esotericism is tied to politics, the Neo-Alexandrian Hermeticists wanted a Hermetic reformation, the Rosicrucians had their own Utopian visions, later Martinists were Anti-Enlightenment and now Traditionalists are anti-Modernity>>34869369By neutral i just mean that, the Olavo article is full of his controversies but only gives the bare minimum on his thought, atleast just give me something that balances the two, if you read the article you'll just get the idea that he was some sort of conspiracy theorist and if anyone asks you about his Traditionalism you don't know what to say
>>34869608Refer back to my previous post here >>34869369 on neutrality lol
>>34869847LmaoIt's crazy how that happened, atleast if wikipedia weren't the number 1 source for info online it wouldn't be that bad...
will there be animals in heaven? I LIKE animals.is heaven "actually" a series of inmaterial spheres? or is the New Earth\ New Jerusalem ie; the whole planet but ontologically restored to the pre-Fall state?
>>34870049>will there be animals in heaven?Animals have their own level of soulhood, the Animal Soul/Psyche, humans have a Rational Soul/Psyche which has the Intellect/Nous, only Nous can continue to exist after death, so no Animals don't exist in Heaven>is heaven "actually" a series of inmaterial spheres?Heaven is above the Spheres, Eriugena speaks of the Mansions Jesus describes as different levels of Heaven, the Saints occupy a higher level whereas normal believes lower ones>or is the New Earth\ New Jerusalem ie; the whole planet but ontologically restored to the pre-Fall state?The world was already corrupted by Lucifer's fall from grace even before Adam's fall, the New Jerusalem will be a return to before that, picture reality as a mishmash of the four elements, the NJ will be composed of the 5th element which is the primordial state/origin of the fourIf Animals will exist in the NJ i am honestly not sure, but i don't think they will
Why does God allow suffering?
>>34870473https://criticallegalthinking.com/2012/08/16/jakob-bohme-the-tragedy-of-free%C2%ADdom-and-the-curse-of-the-law/
>>34830402You guys think that it was a mistake to put a Tarot card as the OP pic?
>>34871831If you were the one who posted it tell me why you did and also tell me why your now second guessing it. If your not the one who did it stop questioning it.
>>34872227I try to have a theme revolving around the thread number, since this one was numero 12 i put the Hanged ManNow i feel like it confused some because it looked like a /div/ pic lol
>>34872306Maybe they just need a change in perspective? Or maybe you do too? I certainly do!;)
Im working on completing aprox 100 commentaries by Roger and the entire cannon which is looking to be roughly 250 stories of Grimm and after that will finish the rest of the entire cannon of Goose.Been working constantly from 11am on recording the remainder of Roger and now im sorting the files out into appropriate categories.If im not completely shot by the time im done in a few hours ill post some stuff.
I read the prefaces to Vol 1 and Vol 2 the other day and I completely exploded at the site of the BIG HEARTS of this TWO BIG HEARTED BROTHERS! Oh its absolutely unbelievable whats coming to surface with this wonderful adventure!Gonna definitely need to post those in a bit.
Preface to The Initiatory Path In Fairy Tales by Bernard Roger ~>https://voca.ro/1gEPKRjcR3Va
Preface to Volume 1 of the Brothers Grimm Fairy Tales ~>https://voca.ro/1laJFUPsV1I1
Preface to Volume 2 of the Brothers Grimm Fairy Tales ~>https://voca.ro/13DjG2roG2kBTHANK YOU BIG HEARTED BROTHERS AND EVERYONE WHO CONTRIBUTED TO THIS PROJECT!!!
>>34872339I just think that next time for #13 i have to think of something better lolIf i can't, then i'll just slap another tarot card on the OP lmao
>>34872546Any audios been doing the trick for you lately? God willing its gonna be the end of the by the start of the summer. Whether im gonna keep going on /x/ after im done recording and posting them remains to be seen.
>>34872602Haven't been able to listen to anything these last few days, it took me 3 days just to listen to a 2 hour talk between some Catholic youtuber who was asking Dr.Khalil Andani about Shia Muslim Neoplatonism
>>34872623All good. Keep in mind though that the longer you wait the less discussion we can have on them. Everyone I used to talk to years ago about alchemy kept putting off reading tractates for so long (what eventually became years and years) that I had to just give up and move on without expecting them to be able to catch up.Its literally thousands and thousands of pages which have to be read AT LEAST twice.Once the gap gets to big between me and someone whos trying to follow along it become impossible to bridge and thats why I stopped trying to talk to people about this entirely.At this point it seems very evident that some people are secretly looking at what ive been posting in this thread series though because lately I keep finding them bringing up the same subjects elsewhere where as before I posted them I never saw them mentioned at all.Hope some other folks out there are Cherishing The Medicine before they attempt to Cherry The Medicine.
>>34872623Did any of the older ones stand out or make an impression?
>>34872657>At this point it seems very evident that some people are secretly looking at what ive been posting in this thread series though because lately I keep finding them bringing up the same subjects elsewhere where as before I posted them I never saw them mentioned at all.The thread is having it's intended effect yes, you can also find more theosophy talk on here since /ceg/ started (outside of /ceg/ itself of course lmao)
>>34872740Just the chivalry one lol
>>34872748That one is so good. Hope it inspired you to read more Dujols, Fulcanelli "stole" a lot of his material for his books.Fulcanelli himself is a literal shitheel and thats why he was nipped off before he ever even came close to becoming a Master.
>>34872761>Fulcanelli "stole" a lot of his material for his books.Yeah i believe you mentioned that once before
>>34872787Everything has to be mentioned and re-mentioned, iterated and reiterated or else ingression will not occur.Time to record more of Weidenfeld.
>>34872787Brother Weidenfeld just refereed to Llully as "Captain Lully" and now he will ALWAYS BE Captain Lully to me.Oh my heart, its bursting with joy, the iron bands are breaking Old Pee, and the Coach is most definitely NOT breaking.The moment when the Iron Bands start cracking literally changed my life, I have read that story an infinity of times, because the ending is so good its hard to even conceive it.I dont know if I posted the audio of me doing the insane voice at the end of that one (the story is the Frog King) but its so funny I cant even stand it!The King is anxious AF and says>HENRY....THE COACH...IS...BREAKING!!!!!And Faithful Henry (this character is coming with me into my coffin so I can live with it forever if its the last thing I ever do) says>NOOOOOOOO MA LAWD!!!! ITS JUST THE BAND AROUND MY HEART BREAKING! (and the next part isnt the exact quotation because i havent memorized it but the sentiment is something like) BECAUSE I PUT THREE IRON BANDS AROUND MY HEART TO KEEP IT FROM BREAKING AFTER YOU WERE TURNED INTO A FROG AND MADE TO LIVE IN THAT DREADFUL WELL!One day that Train is gonna plow straight through my bedroom and Captain Lully is gonna be driving it with Faithful Iron Henry at the Caboose.
>>34872787Would you be interested in more stuff by Dujols? I want to do some more of his stuff soon, a lot of it was never publically released till the last decade or so, a lot of the stuff was put out by Inner Garden.But lately ive begun doing a deep dive that raises some very very serious questions about Inner Garden so Ill openly say I do not approve of them as a Guild but I do approve of them as a publishing company. Be very wary of the Guild though.
>Talking to a Calvinist>Say that Jesus was the best practitioner of Divine Magic in history>He loses his fucking mindPrudes
>>34873570I dont think God has to use Magic, God can just do All by pure providence, and if Man is ultimately made In Gods Image then when that state within Man is in the full capacity of its functionality and not in a state of dysfunction due to our Fall, then Man likewise shares in that same omnipotence as God and thus doesnt need Magic at that level either.What kind of Transcendent person do we hear of using Magic in the sense that its used by someone not a Saint historically? Alchemy on the other hand and the divine powers that may be construed as magical are often used, but this is a far cry from a low form of magic.
>>34873570Yet again I refer to this as my key resource and argument for the refutation of magic by Christians. It says in a lot of the various scriptures in and out of the Bible, the old and new testament eras and beyond that magic is forbidden but never mentions alchemy or the use of powers that come as a result of exaltation and rejuvenation.>https://archive.org/details/FriarBaconHisDiscoveryOfTheMiraclesOfArtNatureAndMagickThink of how powerful completely Natural powers and Art are when considered only through the brief things he mentions, thats truly astounding to me, this tractate is so slept on historically its un-freakin believable.Thank GOD that Roger Bacon is now in the OP, WHERE HE BELONGS.LOL
>>34873791>I dont think God has to use Magic, God can just do All by pure providence,In Meditations on the Tarot Tomberg says that the atonement was the greatest work of divine magic. He makes the point that divine magic is achieved when the human will aligns with the divine will in such a way to make a miracle possible. Such as when Paul healed people. The point he makes is that it's orthodox Christian doctrine that Jesus had two wills, a divine will and a human will. Why? Because the salvation of man required human will and divine will to work together to achieve it, and that was achieved in the person of Christ who perfectly united his own human will with his divine will to save all humanity through himself with a working of divine magic on a cosmic scale that realigned all of creation around the cross.
>>34873860In that sense I would consider it completely "Natural" though, magic are refereed to as being forbidden is only so because of its low nature and thus being out of synch with the divine will.Lets get a scope of reference for time periods as far as the definition of terms like magic goes, also consider that regardless of time period there is simply just the variation of definition according to author, when it comes to any occult subject this is a running gag.Often times in things of an esoteric nature this very subject because the source of serious serious confusion, where mystery schools loose esoteric traditions just like the churches have.
>>34873881becomes the source of serious serious confusion****
>>34872447>>34872463>>34872476These three recordings were so good it knocked me off my socks. Brothers Grimm and Bernard Roger are really some seriously blessed folks and I am not joking when I say that if im in a spiritually questionable state of feeling afraid or intimidated I just think back on them and its quite settling and reassuring and also instructive.
>>34873881The main difference between an esotericist and an exotericist is that the esotericist is self aware about where the threads of their tradition come from. While the fact that Christianity was heavily influenced by Neoplatonism through Augustine and Pseudo-Dionysius is a cause for embarrassment for hardline orthodox Christians it's embraced by esoteric Christians who are pleased to embrace the threads of hermeticism, platonism and gnosticism interwoven into the fabric of the Christian faith.
>>34873993I concur with that completely, but that doesnt change the fact that magic as in low magic as in what is commonly considered magic is forbidden in Abrahamic Faiths historically. The interweaving of those things doesn't change that and those aspects of this all is almost strictly what I posted most content on from Grimm and many many other authors.
>>34874013As in the Grimm stories are the weaving of prechristian Europe and early christian Europe. Also that is what Fulcanelli discusses, Pierre Dujols, the entire G+RC tradition is based on that, Georg von Welling is based on that, even what Bacon says is speaking about many things from a prechristian era, or that stem from outside christianity itself.
>>34873993If youd listen to the preface of B. Grimm they mention the embarrassment by name exactly, its a hilarious point and very true and made me lol in the recording.
>>34873993It was so good in fact it would have been an appropriate time for a retarded seal applause and NPC "das rite" but I didnt wanna overplay the joke.Those Brothers really do deserve a real round of applause though one last time before I go to bed.This ones for TWO BIG HEARTED BROTHERS, CONGRATULATIONS YOU FINALLY MADE IT GENTLEMEN WE SALUTE YOU!O7
>>34874053Pretty soon im gonna make it too, and then ill have read the entire Brothers Grimm Cannon, but thats just the first step to get warmed up, thats The Childs Play, but we still have yet to do the Womans Work!Its the pic so nice they posted it twice.
Im calling it right now, everyone throw down the best shit for the next round, 13 wont be unlucky for us baby, its gonna be the BEST thread YET.Get those engines started cause this thread is about to fly over your fucking house.
>>34873570The academic term for it is thaumaturgy i believe, which just means miracle working>>34873993The difference is that in Christian Exoteriscism most don't know what Neoplatonism is lol>>34874103I hope so too
>>34830402>>34830402>>34830402New thread >>34875137
