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Supposedly suicide has grave consequences according to numerous religions, but why? Especially if you have life ruining illnesses. Surely it's not THAT unjust to kill yourself if your at constant battle with your own body and you're much more of a burden than any positive value you can offer. Why is it deemed wrong to end your own life when the value of it has diminished so low that you're of no use to anybody, not even yourself?
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>>33929160
Life is a lesson, and skipping class early is a big nono. Just stick it out and see what happens
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>>33929160
Everyone has value and something to offer, by killing your self it's like trying to take fate into your own hands. It's better to live out fate than to try and just die it out. There's always a path you can take, even if it leads to death.
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>>33929160
Because it is devastating to your family and friends.
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>>33929335
And if you don't have any?
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>>33929160
It's still a self-centered desire to control existence.
It's not different than other acts showing a desire to enjoy material existence.
If you want life to end prematurely, there are "approved" ways to do it that show a disconnect and transcendence from material existence.
Fast until death.
Keep yourself submerged in a holy river until death.
Manipulate your energy such that you self-immolate.
Those are acts that show your will has mastered your desires.
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>>33929602
>your will has mastered your bodily/material* desires
Important edit.
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>>33929602
Define fast in this this definition, I could easily starve to death if that is what you mean.
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>>33929824
You COULD. But you WONT, because you want to live.
If a person says they want to die, but cannot refrain from eating, do they really want to die?
Faster to refrain from liquids, but harder.
Better than both is to cut off all activity but meditating.
See if you can go one day not interacting with material existence before pretending to want to "end it all".
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>>33929824
Pretty much yeah. Just stop eating and wait.
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>>33929160
>>33929602
You can always go to war if you want to die and don't have visible or documented illness.
There is war in Ukraine and dying warriors death is honorable and faithful also is not retarted like starving, suffacating under water or weird self immolation.
But much my spirituality, most pagan european faiths considered warrior death as highest among deaths, especially now you have rightjust cause war where agressor tries to conquer country so why not fight tyrant ?

Another thing if your illness requires you to take medicine just don't do it but try to keep will to survive on your accord usually two outcomes are first one you get worse to futher worsening your health and increasing chances of death maybe even dying or suddendly you are one of those people who survived for long maybe your illness is lingering one ? regardless by battling it without taking medicine is also considered warriors death as long you keep will to fight.

if it is mental illness you should do drugs that might cure it in so called heroic doses, it is also warrios death as long you are doing drugs for purpose of fighting you illness and not recreational aspect.

If you can't live your life on some of your terms then fight and die gloriously, the better cause you died for the better.
Also there is thing like giving organs to people that need them, technically you can't give hearth and shit you need to live 100% but you could give some of organs i bet that in some cases with taken may cause your death or whatever.

If you can't live let your death cause better world so not even dead or gods can judge you because after all you done it for betterment of humanity but i remind you, you have to keep your main goal as betterment and will to survive not fact you want to die as quick as possible.
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>>33929923
>You can always go to war if you want to die and don't have visible or documented illness.
Not according to vedanta schools.
>O Pārtha, happy are the kṣatriyas to whom such fighting opportunities come unsought, opening for them the doors of the heavenly planets.
The word specifically is yadṛcchayā, "by its own accord". Seeking out war is not an accepted process.
>requires you to take medicine just don't do it but try to keep will to survive
I wouldnt consider that suicide. Just stupidity.
Do you really think karma or whatever system of judgement you follow can be fooled in such a way?
You are refusing medicine because you want to die. Going through the motions of a will to live after that is just pretense.
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>>33929857
>>33929858
I have gone days without food or water because that's the best way to change your insulin dose, you use 1 for your day to day life and 1 for food, if you need to adjust them you have to go without food sometimes to figure them out, I am malnourished as is, I can go without food, the reasons I am even alive now is because of spiritual/ religious fear. If I knew with certainty there was no repercussions I'd inject an entire insulin pen in to myself and let that kill me, if for some reason starving yourself allows you to die guilt free, then, easily done.
>>33929923
I have illness, which is the main reason I want to die lol. If I had a normal working body I would do anything to live, I can't be bothered trying in this life anymore with the pathetic grocery list of illnesses I have. If I stop taking insulin I will die in a few days, the ONLY thing holding me back in my family having trauma, if not for that I would not give a shit.
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>>33930022
>if for some reason starving yourself allows you to die guilt free, then, easily done.
Again, it is about awareness, intent, will.
Wanting to die because you think this world sucks is still a material desire.
The point is to disconnect completely from the desires of body and mind.
That includes being disturbed by their sufferings.
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>>33930106
Observation, opinion and experience should not amount to the same as material desire. If you experience something that is very bad and decide you no longer wish to partake in this, why is that deemed as materialistic?
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>>33930134
>decide you no longer wish to partake in this
But that isnt really what most people that suicide are deciding.
They DO want to participate. They want to enjoy this. But it is not letting them.
It's a ragequit.
It's not "I have no more of these desires, so I shall leave."
It's "I have all these desires, but I cant fulfill them in this situation."
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>>33930156
So if God gives you a body with no arms and legs and you decide "damn this is fucking shit and unfair I want out" that's wrong and you're spiritually weak for being angry for not being on par with other people who get normal working functioning bodies?
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>>33930179
>if God gives you
Your life is determined by your state of mind at the time of death, and by the consequences of your previous actions.
God did not give you that body.
>damn this is fucking shit and unfair I want out
What is the root of that conclusion?
Is the root "I can understand that I am eternal, and thus not suited to a temporary place, and so I shall work on transcending"?
Or is the root "I really really want to enjoy this place but instead here I am suffering"?
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>>33930179
Yes; why?, fuck you, that's why. God works in mysterious ways :)
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>>33930195
It's unfair on the basis we are not made equal. I do not know if we are eternal and if there is some kind of punishment depending on your actions, that's the only bit that deters me, I truly believe this existence is unjust and not worth living.
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>>33930238
>we are not made equal.
You are not your body.
>that's the only bit that deters me
And that is why I say you are not motivated by transcendence. You are trying to avoid the body/mind suffering.
But suffering will always be present here.
If iut makes you feel better, suicide isnt THAt big of a deal.
You just have to be an ineffectual ghost until your "natural" time of death, and then move on to your next body.
But it would be better to just use the rest of your time in this body working to remove yourself from samsara entirely, rather than trying to shortcut to another body.
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remember when jannies used to delete these threads
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>>33930261
If you're the same guy who keeps replying I'll say you do seem to know what your talking about somehow, although there's no way to guarantee that. What the difference in waiting as a ghost as opposed to waiting as a physical being?
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>>33930330
These are my understandings of the Vedanta model of samsara. Specifically Vishishtadvaita Vedanta.
>What the difference in waiting as a ghost as opposed to waiting as a physical being?
You still have all the desires and anxieties, but now you dont even have the potential to do anything about them.
Ever see the movie Being John Malkovich? The ending where Cusak's character is trapped in the little girl, forced to observe and wanting her to look away but powerless to affect anything? It's a bit like that.
It's not a good state of being, but it's still a temporary one.
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>>33930359
I haven't seen that movie but maybe I'll check it out for context. But bear in mind if you have multiple illnesses surely being a ghost is better than the physical experience if you're stuck with multiple illnesses and diseases if the timespan is the same.
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>>33930422
>I haven't seen that movie but maybe I'll check it out for context.
Well shit. Sorry for spoiler but it is a 24 year old movie. Hopefully you can forget what I said by the time you watch it.
>if you have multiple illnesses surely being a ghost is better
But the problem with the illnesses are that they prevent you from enjoying, yes?
Ghost state does the same.
But even with illness, one can find ways to enjoy. Even if it's just having people around you. Or even as simple as reading.
Or better yet - using that illness as a constant goad toward removing yourself from the cycle entirely.
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>>33930482
I'm not eager to watch the movie, by the time I do, I'll forget. I hope you're right, I genuinely am tired of living, you've stated it's because of material desire, you might be right, I am not an expert in spirituality in any regards, I am usually quite tough but I feel as I get older the less the desire to live and exist is there.
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>>33930270
I always ctrl + f : 'suicide' first thing when I open /x/



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