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How do I refute this misandrinistic nonsense?
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>>1223979
With counterexamples.
Looks like you're having a hard job finding them though
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>>1223979
You don't. You stop thinking about stuff that doesn't matter, work on some invention instead, and get rich. Why choose being a loser?
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>>1223979
It doesn't take much because it's completely ridiculous.
I suppose this says a lot about me, but I would personally point to the Japanese bookstore I buy light novels from.
If you do a search for "Boy's Light Novels" you get 32,559 results:
https://order.mandarake.co.jp/order/listPage/list?categoryCode=11030101
Just skimming the covers here more or less refutes the statement.
You'll see the occasional giant robot or cool guy with a sword/gun but easily over 95% of the books are about a cute girl who loves you.
When boys have money and can buy a book about anything and anyone set in any kind of world they OVERWHELMINGLY choose to spend it on books about girls who are pretty and nice and love them. That's their fantasy, that's what they want out of life.
Some of these covers are more or less softcore pornography but the vast majority are just a happy girl in a skirt.
If guys were anything like what this author is describing it wouldn't make any sense. All the most popular books would look like Warhammer 40k. (And even 40k isn't anything like what Marilyn Frye is describing here; the most popular books in that are the ones with the unisex army and Amberley Vail.)
You don't need me to explain this, everyone around the world has always known that boys want girls to love them and think they are cool. Yeah they want to put their dicks in them too. No shit. Everyone wants to have sex.
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>>1224039
>the vast majority are just a happy girl in a skirt
>books about girls who are pretty and nice and love them
>Some of these covers are more or less softcore pornography but the vast majority are just a happy girl in a skirt.
That's literally what OP is saying though:
>what passes for respect is kindness, generosity or paternalism
>what passes for honor is removal to the pedestal
Far from refuting OP, you're just providing further evidence. These cute girls aren't role models or heroes, they aren't exemplars, they're there so the reader can be happy a proxy for the reader is making them safe and happy.
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there are different kinds of love, it is not all erotic. i'm not surprised a woman does not understand that. there are also a lot of typos in that quote.
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>>1224039
Assuming you're not a native speaker, how did you go about learning Japanese?
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>>1224050
>there are also a lot of typos in that quote.
That's down to whoever transcribed that png. Don't be a doesn't-google-it.
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>>1224050
>there are different kinds of love, it is not all erotic.
>i'm not surprised a woman does not understand that.
Oh the irony. The quoted text lists off dozens of "kinds of love", and its chief compliant, articulated in the very first line, is that most of these kinds are reserved for men, and the only kinds of love leftover for women are "sex, babying and possessiveness".
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>>1223979
>trying to use logic against women
You can't reason someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.
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>>1224059
somehow you missed the last line of the quote:
>heterosexual male culture is homoerotic
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>>1224080
Somehow you missed the obvious hyperbole.
A tip: if you find a concluding statement that, if taken literally, goes against everything the earlier statements were establishing, then it's probably hyperbole. "Hyperbole" means "a deliberately exaggerated or obviously-false statement that's meant to be understood by the reader as such". Like if you call someone a "retard" you don't literally mean they go to special-ed classes. That's hyperbole.

I'm really not trying to insult you, because you may be actually autistic (and because accusations of "autism" and "poor reading comprehension" are so cliche), so please take this advice at face value and you'll have fewer problems reading university texts in the future.
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>>1224104
Maybe they are being hyperbolic, or maybe they are just being dumb. Considering the "no shit, Sherlock" opening observation that heterosexual means has sex with opposite sex, and the ancient tendency of women to conflate any positive emotions between men as being homoerotic, I don't see why I should give Frye the benefit of the doubt.
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>>1224117
>I don't see why I should give Frye the benefit of the doubt.
Because your audience can see the difference between you seeking out and demolishing the strongest possible interpretation of their argument versus you seeking the flimsiest possible one then commenting on its spelling errors.

Always try to understand the strongest and most-charitable interpretation of your opponent's point: anything else is playing on easy mode. Even if you're not deliberately creating ridiculous interpretations that a child could poke a hole in, people will assume what you're doing is deliberate, and they'll assume it's because you have no answer to the interpretations.
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>>1224145
>strongest possible interpretation of their argument
What would that be, in your opinion? She just making the observation that men seem to like men more than women and just keep women around for sex. I'm not going to pretend there is much to interpret.
It's charitable enough of me to even read what a woman has wrote.
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>>1224179
>She just making the observation that men seem to like men more than women
>It's charitable enough of me to even read what a woman has wrote.
Is this your first stab at trying "hyperbole"?
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>>1223979
>We love other men, because women who speak and behave like you can't be loved.
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>>1223979
I mean if you really think about it, pussy is really gay. It's a hole made for collecting man cum in it. What kind of faggot would even stick their penis in there? Not to mention that the clit is an underdeveloped penis and the outer vulva is an unfused scrotum, so now you're surrounded by extremely faggy body contact on all sides of your penis. No thank you.
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>>1223979
YES
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>>1224046
To rephrase my point somewhat more succinctly, if men actually only loved other men and only viewed women as objects they wouldn't buy books about women.
That would be like buying a book about the adventures of a table or a coffee mug.
Men/boys wanting to read stories about girls and their lives and what they think and how they feel and their emotions and dreams and fears to the point where they rarely read books about men at all is more or less the opposite of the quote by Marilyn Frye.
This isn't the case in all book markets but it is the case in Japan and increasingly in the West as well.
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>>1223979
it basically seems true. the first and last lines are the controversial ones. it makes you feel like she's calling all men gay, but she really isn't. i feel like she just put them there for shock value or something, it's stupid and hyperbolic and likely to generate a reaction.
it's kind of correct to say that heterosexual male culture is "man-loving" since there are different different kinds of love. not the best way of describing it, but fine if you give context. but then she implies that their heterosexuality is questionable and they are "homoerotic" right after she says that straight men want sex from women. did she redefine heterosexuality and homoeroticism earlier in her book?
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>>1224051
In general you want to start reading as soon as possible. Japanese pronunciation is very simple, you can learn vocabulary as you go, and grammar isn't too much of an issue until you want to start writing or speaking the language, which won't be for a while.
The first thing you need to do is brute force memorize the two alphabets of Japanese; hiragana and katakana. You can do this by making flashcards yourself or using software like Anki. In total this is about 100-200 symbols depending on how you count them. Learning this will be a few hours of brute force memorization but you don't need to know them perfectly yet, you just need to be pretty good at them. You can learn the rest on the way.
After this you should get an electronic dictionary. Electronic dictionaries are much faster than paper ones because you can just copy and paste unknown words into them instead of painstakingly spelling them out symbol by symbol. The dictionary I personally use is Aedict but even something like Google Translate is okay.
Next, choose a Japanese book you would like to read. Choose something you can copy and paste so it works with your dictionary. The book you choose also shouldn't be too difficult. Challenging is good, don't be afraid of reading something with, say, a high school reading level. Just don't jump head first into classical literature or poetry.
The best type of book to read is a voiced visual novel so you can hear how the text is pronounced as you read. You can copy and paste the text from a visual novel by using the program Interactive Text Hooker. ITH supports many visual novels out of the box, but requires an "H-Code" for others. H-Codes look like this: /HSN-1C@466897 You can find H-Codes for most visual novels online.

(1/2)
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>>1224703
(2/2)
Once you have your copy-and-pastable book, whether it's a visual novel with ITH or something like a .txt file, spend an hour every day reading it. When you reach a word you don't know (which will be all of them at the start) put it in your electronic dictionary. Do your best to read the whole sentence with comprehension. Only paste in one word at a time so you learn what each word means.
There are no spaces in Japanese so you will have to do your best to determine where each word starts and ends. This will require guesswork at first but will become intuitive with practice.
If you study like this for an hour a day, you will probably get bad headaches. Those go away after about two months. After about three months you will have memorized enough of the common words and phrases that you will begin to be able to read without your dictionary. Continue using your dictionary to look up all unknown words.
Following this strategy, I was able to read Japanese at an elementary school level after a year, a middle school level after four years and a high school level after seven. As you get better at reading you should learn Japanese grammar so you can write in the language as well and also practice your listening and speaking.

Learning Japanese is a serious commitment but nothing about it is actually difficult, it is just extremely tedious and time-consuming. Anyone can do it if they have an hour a day to spare for a few years. If you're reading a book you enjoy, studying can be quite fun. After a while it feels more like relaxation than work but it does take a while to get there.



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