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Orthodoxy only, no papist heresy, no prot bs, just pure Christianity as espoused by Christ, His Holy Apostles and the Holy Church Fathers.
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>>4138171
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>>4138171
post 3
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>>4138171
>papist heresy
lost
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>>4138220
>lost
yes you are
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Bump
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>>4138249
>yes
there you have it ladies and gentlemen
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>>4138171
this isn't really the right forum for this, but most catholics don't care about the filioque and their views align with the orthodox position.
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>>4138320
The Filioque completely warps orthodox triadology, only God the Father can be where the Holy Spirit proceeds from being the First Principle and the Unoriginate God. Accepting the Filioque as a legitimate theological opinion is a pathway to Macedonianism, or worse, ditheism.
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>>4138320
The Filioque completely warps orthodox triadology, only God the Father can be where the Holy Spirit proceeds from being the First Principle and the Unoriginate Monarch of the Holy Trinity. Accepting the Filioque as a legitimate theological opinion is a pathway to Macedonianism, or worse, ditheism.
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>>4138404
If we changed it to "through the son" instead of "and the son." Would you guys be open to that?
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>>4138171
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>>4138171
Pray for Catholics
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>>4138724
We're open to you rejecting your heterodox beliefs and turning back into the fold that's shepherded by Christ himself.
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>>4138806
>t. hasn't had an ecumenical council since the schism
lol why did I even try
It's not like you guys even actually agree on anything among yourselves.
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I hate etheology so much it's unreal
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>>4138945
race idolater
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>>4138896
Agreed. There is almost no point outside of owning someone else.
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>>4138833
>t. pope worships pachamama idols
lul
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>>4138945
Phyletist
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>>4139021
Call me uptight but I don't think questions of eternal salvation, God, and thousands of years of history and tradition are really fit for discussion via shit flinging on here or twitter. I also really want to visit that cathedral one day, along with the rest of the military museum stuff there.
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>>4138320
Do you bring a mason to a wall that is already built, or do you bring them to a wall that needs building.
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>>4138171

why do you try and divide the body of Christ?

why do you hate the Catholics? are they not your brothers in Christ?

remember that Catholic's are the one's that led the crusades and allowed orthodoxy to flourish for another 300 years, otherwise we would have been annihilated by the turks sooner.

and the Catholics are the ones that fought the Muslims out of Spain before they took over europe along with the middle east.

a few words from our lord (Matthew ch7) 3And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

all Christian sect's are part of the body of Christ not matter on what minor doctrine they might stumble on.

1 Corinthians CH 12 v 12 onwards.

12The body is a unit, though it is composed of many parts. And although its parts are many, they all form one body. So it is with Christ. 13For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free, and we were all given one Spirit to drink.

14For the body does not consist of one part, but of many. 15If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be?

18But in fact, God has arranged the members of the body, every one of them, according to His design. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
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>>4139318
That's not how it works anon. We can't all act like Luther and decide what we believe or don't believe. Either we enter into the Church and accept what has been handed down to us by Christ and His saints and ecumenical councils and many other major and even the minor traditions, or we reject that and choose our own will. It's a choice we make to separate ourselves from Christ through sin, and yes even the sin of heresy. Does that mean everyone outside the Church is damned because of bad theology that they blindly accepted? I don't know, God will judge them and me. And He will probably be more lenient with them than with myself. Also consider that quote in context. St Paul is speaking of those in the Church who have certain talents. Some preachers, some teachers, some ministers, etc. He is not saying that the judaizers were also members of His body and we should quietly accept them even if they are wrong. No, read what he says about those trying to pervert the Gospel, it's just the opposite of what you are saying. He corrects them, writes epistles trying to show them their errors. What else does he say? If an angel of light preaches another gospel do not receive him. And what about St John in the book of revelations? Not him but Christ in John's vision warns that one of the Churches might have their lamp removed. I could go on. It's not a matter of hate, at least not for me. It's a matter of truth that there are those in the Church and those outside.
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>>4139340

I fully agree with you Paul is talking about singular members in a church with talents and how each one of them put them to work for the betterment of the church as a whole in their community, but what i was drawing, is the same thing can be said on the global community, each play a role all contribute to the body of Christ.

consider the verses above the one i quoted,

There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

would you not say the different spirit's the pervade through the churches is the gifts paul is talking about but to a church?

your talking as if the matter of difference is a major doctrinal item, the churches being threatened are all committing major things that clearly go against new testament doctrine. the difference between the orthodox church and the catholic church and many churches is not that major.

why would you reject your brothers, who accept Christ? if Paul warned people about trying to become perfect through the flesh, couldnt you say the same thing about trying to be perfect doctrinal items that created a rift between the churches? things that people literally cannot know either or till the mystery of god is releveled at the end of time.
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>>4138171
oh man you saved me some time
gospody pomejlio nas and blagoslovi!
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hey why is there no xenotheology in Star Trek?
honest question.

you'd think that having alien species all having a metaphysical understanding of God would be fascinating from philosophical standpoint...
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>>4138724
Matters of mending the schism unfortunately aren't that simple. The filioque isn't even the only issue, the doctrines of papal supremacy and infallibility would have to be rejected, not to mention the hundreds of years of decisions and consequences that have come about since the schism.
For true unity, the Catholic church would have to abandon its view that it is the original and unchanged apostolic church. It could only happen with one of us admitting that they're the schismatics. For obvious reasons, that's unlikely to happen
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>>4139318
in the fourth crusade, western crusaders ransacked Constantinople leading to the great schism
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>>4139499
Romans left the Orthodox Church beforehand, the Sack of Constantinople was just them showing how butthurt they were about it
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>>4138171
Good thread idea imo

Do you know any good Orthodox icon image directory sites? Preferably Slavonic but it's not necessary.
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>>4139381
He's writing to those hyper focused on one gift of the Holy Spirit and trying to remind them that this is not the only thing that makes a Christian but is one gift among many. The same can be said about our confession of faith, it is one aspect of being an Orthodox Christian. If that's all we care about and have not mercy or love or self denial etc, then we are only Orthodox and not Christians (really not even Orthodox because you can't say you believe properly and then scorn the same beliefs when it comes to yourself). You say the different spirit's are what Paul is talking about but he never once says spirit's to refer to The Holy Spirit who he continually makes his reference singular. So yes I do think there are other spirits leading other groups and that the Holy Spirit is not only contained in the Orthodox Church but is at work in everyone's lives trying to lead them to the life in Christ that we profess to be the way to salvation. The idea that the differences are not that major is not reasonable when you look at acts and the first council in Jerusalem. This was a council over circumcision and its relationship to salvation. What was decided? That the gentiles should only be held to the noahic (no-way-ic) covenant standards. By your standard why should the Apostles have even cared? If that was considered major enough of a difference to have a council over, it stands to reason that differences in theology on the Trinity, on who Christ is and how we are saved are all saved are also major. But how did the Apostles know if circumcision was relevant to salvation? They tell us saying, "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us" Acts 15:28 They themselves declare they were led by the Holy Spirit just as we say the Holy Spirit has led many councils since. We can know these things because it's not us who knows them but the Holy Spirit who reveals them to us and leads us in all truth.
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>>4139381
Also, I can't say how much or little this is relevant to this topic, but please check out the writings of St Ignatius of Antioch if you haven't read them before. They offer a lot of insight into how the Church functioned from the late 1st century to the early 2nd.
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0104.htm
That's the first epistle
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/
Scroll down to Ignatius of Antioch and you'll find several others and some that were attributes to him but not his. Taking a linear trip through Church history from the 1st century to this one is a great way to get a better understanding of Orthodoxy.
https://www.oca.org/orthodoxy/the-orthodox-faith/church-history
This is a totally free online resource that does exactly that. It's about 300 physical pages long so obviously it's not going to cover everything in excruciating detail but it's a solid jumping off point and I've never heard anyone say that it is inaccurate in some way.
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>>4139318
Someone doesn't know their history. Catholic crusaders sacked Constantinople, and Catholic Germans were so brutal in the East that most Orthodox Slavs preferred the Mongols since they allowed them to practice their religion. Same thing under the Ottoman Empire.
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>>4139526
greek is superior for art tbqh
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>>4139080
source:
literal sedevancists

this literally didn't happen and is SSPX propaganda lmao. The statue was called pachamama by the media who had no idea what the statue was, and His Holiness adressed it as such because it was the common term used amongst the public, without knowing himself what it meant.

Pachamama is an Incan god, and the people who brought the statue were from the Amazon, so it literally makes no sense that they'd have brought a statue of an Incan god.
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>>4139021
any way to find song?
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>>4139816
nvm, Children of the Omnissiah - Guillaume David
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i love how the western burgerdox always prove the point that the only ember of their dying church left is people larping on imageboards
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>>4138176

German orthodoxes ?
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>>4138788
Bro the diff between caths and orthodoxes is tiny,the schism was mainly cultural. I pray for ecumenism and a de-schism
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>>4139848
All schismatics wind up reaping the rewards of an apostatizing flock. All revolutionaries find themselves at the sharp end of entropy when they leave the only eternal church.
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>>4139634
you dont know your history or your politics,
the sej turks were on the door step of the orthodox church, the first crusade, brought them about 300 years, till the third crusade when they got sacked for poor politics on the part of emperor.

and finally the stupidest comment i think i've ever heard, Christian wanting to under ottoman rule. when it was the wallachia fought tooth and nail aganist the ottoman. when the ottoman openly called the Balkan area a tax farm and kept their area's in a constant state of ruin. did the wallachia ruling class mis treat the lower classes and effectively make them salves, yes. but they fought off an empire that would have made them worse then slaves.
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>>4139570
ask your self a simple question, why does the orthodox have the authority to say they are guide by the spirit and the catholics cannot?

for by the same reason you might rationalize that the orthodox is rightly guided i.e. inheriting the bishop position from Christ apostles , one can easily say the same for the catholic's bishop is a bishop inheriting the position of peter. so both should be guided by the holy spirit.

therefore you cannot argue against the Catholics that they are wrong, and you are right simply because you say your sect is guided by the holy spirit.

for we all know for the holy spirit to be present, the fruits of the holy spirit need also been there aswell, which is ultimately a force that unites people to god. the spirit of death fruit is factionalize and dividing. now ask yourself the way people carry on about catholics and orthodox, which spirits fruits are being beared?
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>>4140793
You have a very generalized view of history. What the other guy said isn't strictly true either, but at the time of the crusades, the Orthodox legitimately preferred being under islamic rule, as they general let them be as long as they payed the jizyah. One of the patriarchs of Constantinople is quoted as saying, better a Muslim turban in constantinople than a Catholic mitre, or something along those lines.
Obviously it didn't pan out well regardless, and the muslims very soon started pressing them, but that was the belief of moment
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>omg so trad and sophisticated

yall are so superficial
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>>4140822
Why? Because Rome left the Church. They broke communion with Constantinople. After some time the other patriarchates found Rome to be going away from the faith handed down to them and broke communion with Rome. Looking at things in a bit more detail it becomes clear that the ones to change what it meant to be a Christian was the Roman patriarchate. If you read the third link I posted you can see what happened and decide for yourself if the east changed their faith or if the west did. As for inheritance of the bishopric from the Apostles it doesn't matter if you are a bishop you can still cut yourself off from the Church. Church history is full of heretical bishops who did what Rome did far earlier, take the monophysites for example. Yes, simply stating "we are guided by the Holy Spirit" is not enough to say the Roman Catholics are wrong and we are right. But what I was saying at the end of that post wasn't so much about knowing which is the true Church, but about how the Church can claim to know anything about God, the Trinity, salvation, or any other dogma or doctrine. Yes Satan tries to divide and conquer, but that is only a problem within the Church. You cannot divide what is not joined. The Roman catholics and the Orthodox are not joined through a decision that was basically mutual. It's only within Orthodoxy that this is relevant. When one tries to divide the Church from within, this is division, because we are truly united to one another in baptism and in our confession of faith. But to say that calling heresy, heresy is a fruit of Satan and an action of division is ridiculous. You'd have to say the ecumenical councils were instead guided by Satan because they defined what was the Orthodox belief and what was heresy. Christ will do the same at the Last Judgment, He will divide the sheep from the goats, is this too a fruit of Satan? If you just wanna argue rc vs Orthodox I've got nothing more to say.
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>>4141084
Those are schismatic old believers
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>>4139021
I can apreciate size of it, but fuck the russians for twisting the faith for their army of rapists all things.
A church is made to worhip God not your army.
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>>4138949
>>4139084
‘And a man who has intercourse with a beast: he shall certainly be put to death, and the beast you kill.
Wayyiqra (Leviticus) 20:15

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah
with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.
(Jeremiah 31:27)

How can Yahweh introduce the seed of other men and BEASTS into the seedline of Isreal ?
Beasts can not impregnate humans! Jeramiah is foretelling them breaking the Covenant and losing it's promise.
See ? Beasts means preadamites and other men means non Isrealites. Yawheh is mad at Isreal when he says this.

'My child, avoid all loose conduct. Choose a wife of your father's stock. Do not take a foreign wife outside your father's tribe, because we are the children of the prophets. Remember Noah, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, our ancestors from the beginning. All of them took wives from their own kindred, and they were blessed in their children, and their race will inherit the earth.
(Tobit 4:12)

“No mongrel shall enter the congregation of Yahweh, not even in the tenth generation."
(Deut. 23:2)

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance defines it thusly:
מַמְזֵר mamzêr, mam-zare'; from an unused root meaning to alienate; a mongrel, i.e. born of a Hebrew father and a heathen mother:—bastard.

Mongrel. Mixed-Raced. God doesn't want you to mix races.

The Bible says that if you race mix, your children are not part of Isreal for 10 generations.
That's ONE drop. Do the math, Divide 100 in half 10 times.

Make sure you get a proper translation.
The word translated there as "bastard" in the KJV (mamzer) has a Hebrew root meaning of "mongrel," which means a race-mixed person.

Look at
https://biblehub.com/text/zechariah/9-6.htm
at what the word mamzer means.
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>>4141357
Oh so you follow levitical law? Shouldnt you not be eating pork then?
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>>4141496
Christian Identity forbids pork, I'm a mamzer so I can't be included but I know its still true
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>>4139513
Video is 'Srbi na Sinaju'
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>>4139513
wtf i love serbia now
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>>4141621
Youre a coper is what you are
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>>4142538
what?
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Is there a way to be honest when confessing your sins without saying what you did?
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>>4143559
Talk to your priest anon. Usually he will ask more if he wants to know specifics so he can better direct/advise you. For instance saying, "I have been falling to gluttony" is enough to confess that sin. Really just follow this guide
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0561/6418/8314/files/Guide-to-Confession-in-English.pdf?v=1619223434
And let your priest do the rest. Btw it's a pdf from St Anthony's monastery in Arizona. Heres their website if you don't trust that link.
https://stanthonysmonastery.org/pages/pilgrims-guide-overnight-guests
Scroll to the bottom to download it
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>>4139021
awful green tinted windows. come on, why spoil an otherwise great church with this
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>>4141103
anybody who has actually looked into the matter knows the orthodox churches were in the wrong
you're going to hell buddy
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Bless you fellow Orthodox Christians.
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>>4144737
t. dimond bro
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>>
>>
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>>4139906
You don't see a difference between modern catholicism and orthodoxy? I do. The catholic church isn't as bad as American Christian churches but it is gayer than it used to be
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p5ZpUyRIrw
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Vatican is pedophiles
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>>4138320
Most believers can be saved, even if their churches have fallen.
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>>4139318
>orthodox owe catholics for the crusade
They crusaded against us too, and the crusade was yet another heresy of the western church. The Pope ripped of Islam and decided Christians could have holy war too. Raising that point in favor of catholics shows how little you understand of about the faith and its history.
>>
I went down the rabbit hole
here's my take
sedevecantist/sedeprivationist is the most redpilled position
if you're in slavland, then ortho is fine
if you're in the west, ortho is cringe
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>>4138171
>just pure Christianity
go read the bible and stop listening to every person you come across you will see pure christianity with out human bs.

One example:
There are two places in the bible where Jesus himself put down mother mary as not something holy but something equal to others
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>>4147608
I don't know what point you're trying to prove there other than that the catholic concept of immaculate conception is heresy
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Any exorcism chants?
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>>4147608
>go read the bible

Which translation?
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>>4147745
I don't think there's specific chants for exorcism, just do the Jesus prayer. Also, definitely consult a priest if you think you need an exorcism, Youtube videos won't do it friend.
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>>4147767
>this question kills the prot
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>>4147767
Do you not speak kolne greek and latin?
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>>4147767
any
if you wanna be legalistic read it in greek or King James
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>>4147608
Who compiled the Bible?
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>>4147818
God using men
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>>4147833
This God was a parasite?
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>>4147839
get out jew fedora tipper. YOU are the parasite
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>>4141357
>The Bible says that if you race mix, your children are not part of Isreal for 10 generations.
>That's ONE drop. Do the math, Divide 100 in half 10 times.
And then God chose David to be king. The same David whose great grandmother was a Moabitess.
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>>4148889
Israelites had driven the Moabites out of the land of Moab hundreds of years previous to Ruth’s time. Therefore, Ruth was only a Moabite geographically; not genetically...
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>>4148889
see here for an in depth study of just this one subject. you can listen to it if you want to

https://christogenea.org/podcasts/ruth-was-israelite-ruth-was-not-moabite-race?page=0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C10
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>>4138171
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>>4148958
beautiful
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I believe wholly on Jesus Christ for salvation. For my (many) sins I shall be judged, and the intercessor shall wash those sins away. While I yet linger in this world, I shall spread the good news of this salvation to any who shall hear it, for any who shall hear it and believe it may have it.
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>>4141104
>Old Believers or Old Ritualists are Eastern Orthodox Christians who maintain the liturgical and ritual practices of the Russian Orthodox Church as they were before the reforms of Patriarch Nikon of Moscow between 1652 and 1666.
Sounds like you're the schismatics
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this is now a catholic thread
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>>4146261
The catholc church teachings didn't change.
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>>4138171
Orthodox and Catholics should be fighting together against Protestant specially Evangelicals
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>>4147416
The pope later condemned the 4th crusade and many catholic brothers recognize it was a mistake and some factors from the civilizan crusade.

However we should be looking forward towards a reunification.
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>>4149822
right, but it must be under Rome
muh second rome and muh third rome is a schismatic cope
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>>4149825
Rome is who caused the schism in the first place. Unification could only occur if Rome recognized that it does not have unilateral power over all other churches.
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>>4141176
It's not celebrating the rape of Berlin you tard, it's celebrating Russia's army and its victory over an enemy which killed huge numbers of Russian Christians. This is far from the only military church on earth, which exist for pretty much every major church on earth.
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>>4139848
>the only ember of their dying church left
It's literally the second largest church you retard. Russia, Serbia, Romania, etc. aren't going anywhere.
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>>4146778
Seraphim Rose was a homosexual
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>>4147416
> The Pope ripped of Islam and decided Christians could have holy war too. Raising that point in favor of catholics shows how little you understand of about the faith and its history.
No it didn't the crusades happened due to constant jihading throughout europe almost similar to that of terrorist attacks nowadays.

The church did not make up anything that is close to Jihad other then the just war theory.

2309 The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:
- the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;

- all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;

- there must be serious prospects of success;

- the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.

These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the "just war" doctrine.

The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.
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>>4147330
>Are pedophiles
Despite it is being addressed and enforcing rules to try to prevent it from happening what could help massively is less homosexuals in the seminaries, but that doesn't invalidate the catholic church teachings.
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>>4141084
Tell me when they worship water that is when it is idolatrous then because this is such an ass argument against orthodoxy.
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hello anons,idk if this is a right place to ask about this but here goes nothing.
how should i adopt a monk mode of lifestyle like the ones in mt athos to forget women and cooming from my life?im an incel and i dont wish to be reminded of the fact that i'm an ugly subhuman whenever i see couples{with the man almost always above average in looks} on the street,ads or entertainment starring hot women,etc..
heck even cooming to porn or just hot women once a while reminds me that i'll never get to ensure my genetic survival while most women will.
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>>4150117
First off stop jacking off to porn
2nd off Seek the sacrament of reconciliation
3rd off
Pray the rosary everyday
4th Off improve your life before becoming a priet monk or what ever
5th Seek God's kingdom above all else.
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>>4150140
>First off stop jacking off to porn
ok ,but how?i jack off about once a month and mostly to some nude or bikini models.

i've also improved many parts of my life be it getting fit,socialising{which only has worked with some men because even men judge other men on their looks},working hard{currently at uni},planning and scheduling everyday,etc..i get it that not so good looking people get treated like shit as nobody wants to be associated with genetic abominations but i simply cant cope with this reality.
>2nd off Seek the sacrament of reconciliation
>3rd off Pray the rosary everyday
?
>5th Seek God's kingdom above all else.
and what is that?

idk man ,i dont wish to sound like ivan karamazov or some other atheistic and nihlistic character but with that said i see myself embracing "all's fair in life" and all that matters is existence and survival. I suppose the dead know only one thing and that being it's better to be alive
>>
>>4149776
https://www.rbth.com/history/332188-how-russian-old-believers-burned-alive
Read a little more about them and you'll notice they are demonic
>>
>>4150181
Well this is going to take some time.

>ok ,but how?i jack off about once a month and mostly to some nude or bikini models.
Well I used to be in your situation not to long ago, likely a few months ago, lets just say I knew how to pray the rosary and doing it on the daily basis and it worked and then I went on to confess my sins.

>i've also improved many parts of my life be it getting fit,socialising{which only has worked with some men because even men judge other men on their looks},working hard{currently at uni},planning and scheduling everyday,etc..i get it that not so good looking people get treated like shit as nobody wants to be associated with genetic abominations but i simply cant cope with this reality.

Listen bro I am still a virgin and I forgot my size some say I am 5'4 or 5'7, while I am decent looking I am not the top of my genetic line either and I never had sex, but then again I am just a 20 year old who is going through the motions of life with having a family and teaching and serving the Church in anyway I can, the bottom line bro you may not be genetically be perfect but God does love you and I am sure they are some people that do care about you if not you haven't met them yet.

The sacrament of reconcilation is confessing your sins to a preist go to your local catholic church and be genuine as for the orthodox churches I would say they are the same unless a fellow orthodox tells me otherwise.

>>3rd off Pray the rosary everyday
Here is one to get you started.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9brjjCeaHgc

https://rosarycenter.org/how-to-pray-the-rosary

https://rosarycenter.org/prayers-of-the-rosary

If you want to go an extra mile you can pray the litany prayers which you can look up at any time.

>5th Seek God's kingdom above all else.
and what is that?

Seek God's heavenly kingdom and forgiveness and to strive for righteousness and good and you will be under his graces and things will happen in your life of course you'll have to
part1
>>
>>4150244
you'll have to carry your cross and struggle.
>>
damn you guys are heated in here im a baptist but we can all agree to praise the lord though right?
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>>4150293
>but we can all agree to praise the lord though right?
can we?how did y'all come to terms with darwinian nature and hereditarianism?
>>
>>4149816
You should be fighting to convert the rest of the planet to Christianity before turning your gaze towards Rome and Luther.
>>
>>4150460
>convert the rest of the planet to Christianity
lmao
>>
>>4150181
>ok ,but how?i jack off about once a month and mostly to some nude or bikini models.
By not touching your dick. In theory, not masturbating should be easy since it requires you to do nothing. If your self-control isn't at that level then at the very least just masturbate without looking at porn. If going on 4chan means you're looking at porn then it might be time to cut down on 4chan time.
>i've also improved many parts of my life be it getting fit,socialising{which only has worked with some men because even men judge other men on their looks},working hard{currently at uni},planning and scheduling everyday,etc..
This part is good. Self-improvement is commendable.
>i get it that not so good looking people get treated like shit as nobody wants to be associated with genetic abominations but i simply cant cope with this reality.
Regardless of how ugly you actually are, you need to be less self-conscious. You sound like you worry a lot about whether people around you are just tolerating your presence for being ugly. It doesn't matter if they are or not; you need to stop worrying about stuff like that so much and just focus on God. Pray to God to help you get through things if they're tough.
There's also the fact that constantly being depressed over being lonely and a virgin will guarantee you never get a wife. Women can smell out this kind of stuff in men and they know to avoid it. The women that don't avoid it are the proper crazy types you definitely need to avoid.
>>
>>4150013
you either believe in a single hierarchical state and church or you do not
something like that HRE should be the ideal
the question is Ghibelline vs Guelph
>>
>>4150117
All good advice but you should also get your hormones checked out and try some things to raise your testosterone if it's low. Weight lifting for one. Also, children inherit epigenetical changes to genes so acting the best you can and making a habit of it makes a big difference.
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>>4150461
Yes.
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>>4141084
Dude I am a catholic and that is one of the worst fucking arguments I seen used against the orthodox.
>>
>>4138171
bump
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>>4151098
Christianity had its peak during colonialism and now it's dying in developed countries. Your only hope is low IQ 3rd worlders who don't realize how nonsensical your religion is.
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>>4151672
had? it's bigger than ever. it's dying in developed, decadent countries. like yours, i guess.
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>>4151757
Christianity is past its booming phase, the numbers relate to population growth. As for the "decandent" countries with high literacy and low crime rates, well, the Christian god seems to dwell in Latin America and Sub-saharan Africa, where most of the population is religious and ignorant, and murder rampant. Quite a future for Christendom.
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>>4147767

Read the 1611 King James Version, Luther bible, or learn greek to read the original bible
>>
>>4150460
You have to face traitors first, you can't fight Judaism with evangelicals
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>>4151903
If that's the case then you need to sort out the traitors in the Catholic/Orthodox issue first. As always, Catholics would rather get mad at Protestants instead of converting Muslims or African animists.
>>
>>4151978
Because Catholics know they have a better shot at eliminating Protestants than converting Muslims, of all people, to their idolatrous cult.
>>
>>4148895
>>4148896
I've read it and it sounds like they've struggled over this point of a woman of Moab being great-grandmother to God's anointed king of Israel and their solution was to just decide that she can't be one genetically and reinterpret scripture to suit.

They cite Numbers 21 with the defeat of King Sihon of the Amorites, for instance, where Israel wiped them out and settled east of the Jordan. Num 21:26 says that the Arnon river was a border between the two nations after Sihon and conquered Moab land. Scripture does not say that they completely conquered all Moabite land. In the link they say the majority of Moab land was north of the Arnon and that the land south was insignificant, even after Sihon took the land north of Arnon. This is pure conjecture on their end. Ammon and Moab both lay claim to that area so it can't have all been Moabite land. The Israelites then proceed to wipe out King Og, at which point the king of Moab sends for Balaam. Israel has clearly passed through this land without wiping out the Moabites, or else there would be no Moabites in fear of the Israelites.

They've then taken these cases of Israel wiping out the Amorites and said that means Moab was destroyed and repopulated. The later examples of people with toponymic surnames in Samuel are a list of soldiers hundreds of years later and insignificant in the big picture. We are told the tribe of all these old major characters. Why would Ruth be an exception? It's clear that the Amorite land north of the Arnon (and thus Moab) was given to the tribe of Reuben, so there'd be no difficulty assuming she'd be a Reubanite and scripture would've undoubtedly done so.

And lastly, if all the Moabites had been wiped out, there would be no need for instructions excluding them from assembly of God in the first place.
>>
>>4152076
refer here. >>4141357
the oldest translation of the old Testament, the Jerusalem Targum, completely vilifies what is stated. Ruth simply CANNOT have been a mamzer, it's against the law of God. we can clearly understand the defintion is mamzer with Strong's concordance. if she wasn't a mamzer, she was at least of Adam, and not a beast.
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>>4148958
lol this is the one used in the orgy scene in eyes wide shut
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>>4151978
Stop sucking Jewish dicks and get back to Christianity
>>
>catholics are dagonites and judaisers
>evangelicals worship the god-killing christ-rejecting jews
>orthodox wear long robes, pray openly in the streets and high places, and bow down to idols
guess I'll keep being my church of one
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>>4139249
What the fuck is the sauce on the song? I've been looking since this was posted.
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>>4149776
you have no clue what the old believers were do you?
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>>4152228
yes, but damn it sounds really great
>>
File: 1632135456646.gif (3.98 MB, 270x314)
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https://christiansfortruth.com/
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>>4152478
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>>4152928
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>>4149801
based
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>>4138171
There is no God you moron.
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>>4153024
"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God." Psalm 14:1
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>>4150087
The crusades as a military act were justified, and of course its not the exact same as jihad. The thing he ripped off, and what I consider to be heresy is the fact that salvation was guaranteed to those who would go and fight. Only God can give you salvation, nobody on earth can guarantee it. It's as bad as indulgences in my view
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>>4150079
Yuor mom is a homosexual
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>>4152478
>Stop sucking Jewish dicks
>get back to Christianity
Pick one
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>>4138171
>pure Christianity as espoused by Christ
even the bible isn't clear on this because even the KJV bible is highly politicized and edited arbitrarily
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>>4152104
That's circular reasoning at this point. It says Ruth was a Moabite. The arguments put forth that Israelites completely replaced Moabites while still referring to those Israelites as such is weak at best.
>>
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>>4149814
Catholics follow the Catholic Catechism, which is updated. iirc the one they follow was published by Pope John Paul II in 1985 and convened by a council in 1992.
I'm not a Catholic, but have attended several masses here in America. My take away is that most of the community is there to go through the motions, the sermon is often politicized.
Roman Catholicism is also a fusion of Paganism and Christianity, many practices have their origins in paganism carried over from when Rome converted toward the end of Constantine's reign, 300 years after the resurrection of Christ. You tell me if you think Christianity is the same now as in 100AD.
>>
>>4139906
The catholic church has issues.
>The pope has the capacity to steer the church he can steer it into heresy.
>Priests cant marry
>Venerating the virgin mary is actually idol worship
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>>4153314
>Venerating the virgin mary is actually idol worship
What? How?
>>
>>4146250
This isn't orthodoxy
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>>4153298
it's circular to reason that Israelites follow the laws of God, wow. I supposed King Herod was an Israelite, because his mother was an Israelite, but we can ignore that his father was an Edomite? (Antipater the Idumaean). I suppose we can also ignore that modern Bible translations conflate "Jew" "edomite" and "Judean" to all mean the same thing when in fact they're all very different? lol. yeah, after God orders literal genocide of particular races, he's going to allow his laws to be broken, just because. impossible

יהושע Messiah is the same yesterday, and today, and forever.
Iḇ`rim (Hebrews) 13:8 TS2009
https://bible.com/bible/316/heb.13.8.TS2009
>>
>>4153377
No, it's circular because it was a link back to a post that I had already responded to.
>>
>>4153314

dont mock the fact that priest dont marry is literality is a massive sacrifice, here are some of jesus teachings on the matter from matthew chapter 19.

8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”

10 His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”

Jesus Teaches on Celibacy
11 But He said to them, “All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given: 12 For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it.”

not to mention, paul also says a similar thing.
>>
>>4153199
that is 100% correct only Our Lord can give salvation.
>>
>>4152647
total war : medieval 2 theme song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jBc4OjWORw&ab_channel=Chamber
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>>4139249
got to be the most misquoted verse.

in context of the verse it really sounds like that the sword is falling on the followers of Christ and therefore we are to take up our cross's and follow him.
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>>4153378
you responded but not did not rebut it? you can't, it's the law of God. you think God didn't discriminate when he had entire races wiped out? when Jesus called the Pharisees for what they were, Amorites? Ruth CANNOT have been a nonadamite in accordance with God's law. Israelites were white.

>Adam was created White. The name “adam” is ̓âdâm in Hebrew and means a “ruddy human being” (Strong's O.T. #120). It is derived from “adam” (Strong's O.T. #119), or ̓âdam in Hebrew, which means “to show blood (in the face), i.e., flush or turn rosy.” Only one race has the characteristic of blushing or showing blood in the face or skin, and that race is the White or Aryan race.

>The Bible further proves that Adam and Eve were of the White race with fair and ruddy or rosy complexion by the way it describes their descendants. 1 Samuel 16:12 and 17:47 describe David as being “ruddy and of fair complexion.” 2 Samuel 13:1 describes David's daughter, Tamar, as “fair.” Genesis 12:11 and 14 describe Sarah as “very fair,” and Genesis 24:16 and 26:7 describes Rebekah as “very fair.” They are descendants of Adam. In Songs of Solomon 5:10, Solomon is said to be “white and ruddy.” In Lamentations 4:7 the Nazarites (consecrated persons) of Judah are described as “whiter than milk” and “more ruddy in body than rubies.”

>1 Samuel 16:12—“He sent therefore and brought him. Now he was ruddy and beautiful to behold, and of a comely face. And the Lord said: Arise, and anoint him, for this is he.”

>1 Samuel 17:41-42—“And the Philistine came on, and drew nigh against David, and his armourbearer went before him. And when the Philistine looked, and beheld David, he despised him. For he was a young man, ruddy, and of a fair complexion.”

If Jesus Christ is a direct purely racial descendant of King David, then Jesus Christ looked like King David

Jesus Christ was white
>>
>>4153407
>you responded but not did not rebut it?
I did. Get some glasses or take your meds.
>it's the law of God
According to God's law the showbread was only for Levites to eat and yet David ate it anyway and Christ later referred to the event as something permissable given the circumstances. If David break God's laws and have Jesus use the example to defend his disciples behaviour then there's clearly some ground around God's laws that isn't properly understood, at least when it comes to God's direct decision making. The fact of the matter is that Ruth was not an Israelite and God allowed it.
>>
>>4153407
>being this concerned about the skin color of fictional jewish characters from jewish mythology book
christcucks are dumb but british israelites are a special kind of retarded
>>
>>4153407

I mean I cant deny that all of your verses make sense based on the supposition that the only race that can blush is whites, but I you're just wrong from the start.

Maybe the darkest african niggers cant blush, but I'd wager (from experience) that most skin colours can recognizably blush.
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>>4153655
https://archive.4plebs.org/tv/thread/157336364#157337385
white people are Adamites and Israelites, look at pic related link
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>>4151863
>religious ans ignorant.
>america
>not decedant with high divorce rates
>government trying to fuck its populace over.

Alright "high iq" fedora tipper whats logos?
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>>4153306
>a fusion of paganism
Nit a fusion at all the Catholic Church synchronized all of these things which of course under a different context and giving all of that to God.

>the same as it was in 100ad

Still the same.
Same pope
A lot of teachings we had was due to ignatius who personally knew one of the disciples of christ.
>>
>>4153549
>Being. Jesus mythicist
Tell me anon how is it like to deny reality?
>>
>>4153306
99% of it remains the same anon.

Saints?
Biblical
The eucharist?
Also biblical
Statues and religious artifacts being used?
Traced back to exodus.
Confessing to preists?
Also biblical.

Everything else like christmas and what ever had all been synchronized to the faith.

Only some protestants tries to follow its hebrew purity spiral.
>>
>>4153306
And lastly look up the church fathers not one bit of it had changed.
>>
>>4154069
You tell me. Jesus never existed.

1. There are no Roman records of the crucifixion dating to the 1st century, every Roman source scholars resort to comes from the 2nd century forward. Utter silence about him and his claimed deeds pervades contemporaneous writings, unfitting of an extremely popular preacher whose alleged execution became such a massive public event involving the governor of Judaea (Matthew 27:11), an eclipse (Matthew 27:45), an earthquake (Matthew 27:51), and a zombie apocalypse (Matthew 27:52-53).

2. The earliest secular mention of Jesus is found in the so-called "Testimonium Flavianum," a blatant Christian adulteration of Flavius Josephus' Antiquities of Jews. This shows how desperate the Christian community from the 3rd-4th centuries was over the lack of evidence for Jesus, and how dishonest they were to tamper with historical documents and forge evidence.

3. The biblical accounts are wholly contradictory and unreliable, authors demonstrate a lack of sound knowledge about basic things: Jesus forbidding divorce separately to women and men, despite the fact that women in his society could not get divorces (Mark 10:11-12); A geneology of Jesus tracing through the Davidic line that purports 14 generations between David and Jeconiah, which is inconsistent with the generational spread in 1 Chronicles 3 (Matthew 1:6-11); John's author ignorance of the difference between Aramaic and Hebrew (John, 19:13); etc.

4. Key pieces of information from the gospels have no historical basis: Luke's absurd claim that the census required people to go back to their ancestral home (Luke 2:3); The Romans had no custom of freeing prisoners during Passover (Mark 15:6, Matthew 27:15, John 18:39, interpolated in Luke 23:17); The centurion had no reason to kill Jesus (John 19:34) since crucifixions were intended as a prolonged method of execution, and neither did Pilate to allow Joseph "The Plot Device" of Arimathaea to bury him (John 19:38); etc.
>>
>>4154242
>J jesus never existed
LMAO he clearly did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory

The crucifixion is already widely agreed upon it existed.

As for everything else again as this anon had said
>>4154099
Look up the church fathers look up who ignatius of antioch is which was before the second century

t every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned” (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).
(If that is to strictly from a christian pesrpective which would be a genetic fallacy but I digress)

“We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead” (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74]).

tried rejecting literally tried rejecting the actual existence of Jesus despite they were still actual living disciples at the time before being offed around or before 100 ad and one church father personally knew one of the disciples.
For many this would do, but you want just secular? Okay

As for Josephus.

>The earliest secular mention of Jesus is found in the so-called "Testimonium Flavianum," a blatant Christian adulteration of Flavius Josephus'

"H]e convened a judicial session of the Sanhedrin and brought before it the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ—James by name—and some others, whom he charged with breaking the law and handed them over to be stoned to death. (Josephus, Antiquities, book 20)"
>>
>>4154242
Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day. (Antiquities, Book 18)

Find me anything else with or with no mention of Jesus since he would still be talking about him despite no mention.

WE have Pliny the Younger

Tacitus

Suetonius

And a couple less more well known pagan writers.

For jews we have the talmud
Philo and tons of other sources.
>>
>>4154387
>>4154403
Biblical scholarship is overwhelmingly represented by theologians and Christian institutions, their "wide agreement" to maintain the status quo is worthless when we known there's scarcely any evidence for a historical Jesus. And those same scholars still can't deny that the segment of Antiquities you posted was a Christian forgery.
Josephus' work dates to the very end of the 1st century and everything else about Jesus is from the 2nd century onward. Contemporary figures such as Philo, who should've mentioned Jesus, say absolutely nothing about him.
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>>4154421
Alright lets just agree to disagree.

But anon regardless of what evidence or what ever why is it that you personally don't believe in Christianity?
>>
>>4154432
Because it's obviously fake and gay. After reading the bible (old and new testaments) and studying the historical context you realize the whole thing was just politics, with pro-Roman parties reverse engineering Second Temple Judaism to fit the imperial model, overthrow Pharisaic authority, and counter the ideological claims of radicalized nationalist jews (the zealots) to control Judaea.
>>
>>4154438
And they intended to do that through a minor religion that spent the next 300 years being persecuted and executed by every government they came into contact with? Even if that was true it was made obsolete when Titus destroyed Jerusalem.
>>
>>4153336
Yeah those are copts but there's nothing wrong with how the baby is being handled. It's shaking the babies that's bad, up and down motion is, especially this small of an amount, not going to hurt the kid just shock him a bit.
>>
>>4154717
Persecution of Christians in the empire was largely overblown by later writers and conflated with intramural hostilities with the Jews. The Romans had little to no reason to persecute Christians, as their entire doctrine was designed to be the opposite of everything they've had trouble dealing with in Judaism since the tax reforms following the Census of Quirinius in 6 AD, which led to the First Jewish-Roman war. These problems, and the ideological influence of Second Temple Judaism, would not begin to fade out until the Jewish defeat during the Bar Kokhba revolt and the end of the wars.
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>>4146243
"All I said was, 'and the son'"
>>
>>
>>4146243
i want to laugh and cry
>>
I have a question. I was talking to my friend who is a Jehova's Witness and he brought up the fact that in a lot of Bibles, God is never referred to by his actual name which is Yahweh (or YHWH). Why is that?

3 interesting things I found out from him is that the Bible says that sinners will turn to dust, be forgotten and will pass out of existence, most Christians will be resurrected to a Paradise Earth while 144,000 Christians will serve with God in Heaven to govern it and that Jesus tells his followers not to celebrate his birth, but to celebrate his death and resurrection.

I am still reading the Bible, but I am about half-way through. Page 580. I am currently reading the English Standard Version.
>>
>>4156574
I would read the KJV after you finish the standard. Standard changes to much interruptions due to it trying to use modern English.

And I'm not sure why Yahweh isn't used much. By the time new testament comes, Jesus didn't even use Yahweh. Either God or Lord. New testament was written in Greek so possibly Yahweh got lost in translation as Yahweh is Hebrew. In English Yahweh is translated as Lord.
>>
>>4156574
>and he brought up the fact that in a lot of Bibles, God is never referred to by his actual name which is Yahweh (or YHWH). Why is that?
The Torah is composed of several different sources. The one that refers to God as YHWH was traditionally called the "Jahwist" source.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahwist
>>
>>4138171
>Orthodoxy only
>just pure Christianity as espoused by Christ
one
>>
>>4156574
You celebrate his death because him dying on the cross was him sacrificing himself to forgive us for our sins. God so loved the world he gave his only forgotten son. Jesus death was asking God to forgive us and continue to save us. That Jesus died to allow us to continue to be saved by God. As Jesus said on the cross, father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.

You celebrate his resurrection because it symbolizes life after death. Death isn't the end.
>>
>>4156636
Couldn't God just forgive people without all the voodoo blood ritual shit though?
>>
>>4156641
Not him, but couldn't you just read the Bible instead of asking questions kids would ask in sunday school?
>>
>>4156644
I did. It doesn't explain why primitive blood magic is necessary when God is omnipotent.
>>
>>4156574
Those not saved by God go to hell to suffer in agony for all of eternity. So I wouldn't say they are passed out of existence. But, you won't remember them by the time revelations come. So I guess technically if you don't remember them, they don't exist.

All will be judged by God. Even those saved by him. Those saved by him will be allowed into the kingdom of heaven and the rest cast into the lake of fire. And by the time revelations comes, a new heaven and earth will be formed. Some will live in heaven, while the rest will live on earth. This is the rebirth.
>>
>>4156647
When you are cast into hell, a demon will tell you that you will never be a women for all of eternity.
>>
>>4156655
>can't defend his superstitious beliefs
>immediately starts ranting about trannies
Kek classic schizo
>>
>>4156647
It does, it's not blood magic, you're just a dumbass liar kid who never read the bible. Atonement for sin is clearly defined. Come back when you're 18.
>>
>>4156636
I know that, I was more interested in Jesus telling us not to celebrate his birth, yet Christmas is based around celebrating his birth.
>>4156648
According to an article my friend sent me, sinners do not suffer in agony. https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/what-is-hell/
>>
>>4156668
That's Jehovah witness teachings. One thing you will quickly run into is interpretations vary among the denominations and sects. Nearly most denominations and sects agree that hell, is agony.
>The rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame
>>
>>4156641
Jesus sacrificed himself because by that point, God wanted to wipe out humanity again. But Jesus sacrificing himself was atonement for our sins. Hence, a sacrifice to make up for us.

The only reason why God kept giving us chances is because of his love and desire for a family. But he deeply regretted our fall from grace. He loathed our sin. Many occasions he got tired of our shit. He flooded the world once, only kept a few alive because he loved his creation but hated what we became. And then punished a few bad moments like him wiping out sodom and gomorrah with hellfire. But he still kept us around because of his mercy and desire for a family. As he created us to have a family. Angels created to serve him, humans created to be his family.

By the time Jesus came, it was essentially the final act of mercy. He promised he won't destroy the world until the end of times. No more prophets, no anything until the end of times. Jesus sacrifice was his final act. Now, it's just a waiting game till revelations.

To understand the relationship God has with us is to think as a parent to their child and a creator to a creation. As much as some may develop hate for their children for the bad things they do, like a son who keeps taking drugs, they are still our children. We punish them, we feel disappointment, but ultimately we keep giving chances because of our love and mercy. But sooner or later, we finally say enough.

After all, he created us in his image.
>>
>>4156641
>>4156647
Jesus's trial and execution is an reenactment of the Yom Kippur:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur#Temple_service

Compare the act of sprinkling blood with New Testament verses such as 1 Peter 1:2. Blood was required to appease Yahweh, the tribal god of Israel, and such blood rituals were recreated to formulate Christianity, which is simply a subversion of Second Temple Judaism.
Jesus is the sacrifice whose blood is sprinkled on the temple (now the congregation) while Barabbas is the scapegoat who's set free into the wilderness, carrying away the sins of Israel.
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>>4156664
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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>>4156681
Interesting thing about creating us in his image is the fact we are able to know right and wrong and we had a choice of it. We had free will.

Original sin is that we are born in sin, because we understand sin. We know what sin is. If we were not born in sin, then we wouldn't be able to understand it.

What disappointed God was the fact that even though we knew between right and wrong, we, on our own free will, gave into sin. We knew is was bad, but we couldn't control our temptations. This made God deeply disappointed because the power of sin, it's temptations were to great for us to rebuke it's temptations to do sin.

A lot of academic types absolutely loathe original sin because they take it at face value. That it means humans default nature is to be bad. It doesn't mean we are bad by nature, it means we are sinful by nature because we understand what sin is. And because we have the ability to commit sin means we will be sinful.
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>>4156686
That actually explains a lot
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>>4156709
Also born in sin from the fall from grace. With Adam and eve getting kicked out of the garden of Eden, we all are born from that fall from grace.
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>>4156717
There's much more. Almost everything in the New Testament is patchwork of Torah tropes, which Christians naively interpret as "prefiguring" Jesus.
I recommend reading about biblical typology to get the basic idea of how much of the NT is recycled stuff from the OT.
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>>4138404
>>4138724
>>4138806
>ortholarpers
catholics believe the exact same thing as orthodox, this is just a retarded thousand year long disagreement over a mistranslation that introduced a problem that didn't exist in the latin anyway, which is what should matter since the creed was in latin and not greek. both say the holy spirit proceeds from the father and the son, Jesus even says in the bible I send the holy spirit, of course everything Jesus is from the father because of eternal generation, so that's the origin as a first principle. the real reason for the schism is political because there exists no real theological dispute.
>>4139495
yea funny because the early church has always had the papacy in place, even peter in acts was the dispute solver, and when the apostles argued he was the tiebreaker, it's been like that ever since

daily reminder that if you're not a russian or eastern european you shouldn't be orthodox anyway because it's not the eastern church's jurisdiction. both churches recognize eachother's bishops as validly ordained and having jurisdiction over certain areas. so there's no reason for a westerner to be going to orthodox churches, because they're under the catholic jurisdiction anyway, mutual recognition of valid bishops, priests, eucharist, marriage etc. quite frankly it's ridiculous and pretty funny to see these goofy white anglo saxon guys who have no kind of ethnic connection start showing up to like some latvian orthodox church with a bunch of babushkas lmao go and actually read the church fathers, the early councils where they recognise the successor of peter and acts, because papal supremacy was all there
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>>4156681
>>4156709
>>4156725
What a retarded story.
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>>4156835
He also told the story in the wrong order. Adam and Eve only acquired the ability to know right and wrong after they disobeyed the Elohim and ate from the Tree of Knowledge, becoming like the Elohim. They're only banished from the Garden of Eden because the Elohim didn't want them to eat from the Tree of Life and fully transform into gods, so the Elohim kick them out and put the lahat chereb to guard the east side of Eden.

>And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.
Genesis 3:22-24

It's less of a story about parental frustrations and more like a biological experiment gone wrong.
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>>4156751
You're literally just wrong, patristic consensus is that the Confession of Peter is the Rock of the Church and that Petrine Supremacy is not true.
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>>4156887
st cyprian:
a primacy is given to Peter, by which it is made clear that there is one Church and one chair. . . . If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he think that he holds the faith? If he deserts the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he be confident that he is in the Church?

patristic consensus is that peter is the head of the church, and his sucessors too. like i said if you don't have a referree or a tiebreaker the disputes go on endlessly, just like how the patriarchs of moscow and constantinople hardly recognise eachother's authority at this point. there's a million church fathers talking about the same thing, talking about how peter was the tiebreaker at the council of jerusalem. you are simply wrong. go read what the fathers had to say, it's all right there and by the way, you're speaking english, which tells me you're probably not even supposed to be orthodox anyway, since you would have no ethnic connection to these churches
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>>4157841
But I want to be Orthodox because forced celibacy makes Catholic priests pedos.
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>>4157841
St Cyprian:
"Certainly the other Apostles also were what Peter was, endued with an equal fellowship both of honour and power; but a commencement is made from unity, that the Church may be set before as one; which one Church, in the Song of Songs, doth the Holy Spirit design and name in the Person of our Lord: My dove, My spotless one, is but one; she is the only one of her mother, elect of her that bare her" (On the Unity of the Church)
St Augustine:
"In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter: ‘On him as on a rock the Church was built’...But I know that very frequently at a later time, I so explained what the Lord said: ‘Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,’ that it be understood as built upon Him whom Peter confessed saying: ‘Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,’ and so Peter, called after this rock, represented the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and has received ‘the keys of the kingdom of heaven.’ For, ‘Thou art Peter’ and not ‘Thou art the rock’ was said to him. But ‘the rock was Christ,’ in confessing whom, as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter." (The Retractions)
St John Chrysostom:
"And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church’; that is, on the faith of his confession. Hereby He signifies that many were on the point of believing, and raises his spirit, and makes him a shepherd...For the Father gave to Peter the revelation of the Son; but the Son gave him to sow that of the Father and that of Himself in every part of the world; and to mortal man He entrusted the authority over all things in Heaven, giving him the keys; who extended the church to every part of the world, and declared it to be stronger than heaven" (Homilies on the Gospel of Saint Matthew)
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>>4158840
what the fuck papists btfo
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>>4158623
eastern catholic priests can marry
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>>4158840
can you explain how any of that means that he doesn't act as a tiebreaker, oh wait you can't and all the same fathers say so. nothing about anything you just posted disagrees with what i've wrote. Augustine wrote:
The succession of priests keeps me, beginning from the very seat of the apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after his Resurrection, put in charge of feeding his sheep, down to the present episcopate

like i said peter was in charge, peter was the tiebreaker, and his decision was the one the others yielded to at the council of jerusalem. if you have no referee then there's no unity, which is why all these church fathers talk about unity. read the fathers. understand the fathers held to papal supremacy.
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>>4138788
Sauce on song
>>
>>
>>4156641
if you think about, the way this world controls you is through the power of death, almost everything we do is to stave of death.
and yet just think, by his death millions of people justify devoting their lives to help others.

through just dying for his enemies he became the centre piece for all of modern civilisation. kinda insane when you think about.
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>>4159942
That's some crazy revisionism.
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>>4159358
This nice little tiebreaker theology is orthodox, not papist. The See of Rome was the first among equals for the first thousand years of the Church, being that it was the old capital of the Empire (the words of the Canons, not my own), Constantinople became it’s equal after a time. So yeah, Rome is the tiebreaker, not the supreme dictator and ruler of the other bishops. Actually read the Fathers and not cherrypick them.
>>
https://christiansfortruth.com/
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>>4160203
>This nice little tiebreaker theology is orthodox
yea nice cope. because the other guy didn't seem to think so

all of the apostles asked Jesus who was the greatest among them, and Jesus essentially says Peter is, because he's serving the rest. acting as a tiebreaker and being the highest authority isn't dictating. it's settling, because you look at the state of the bishops in the east and nothing is settled and they're all arguing with eachother and not recognising anything. funny you'd bring up constantinople becoming the equal as a political power. same thing happening in russia with the patriarch of moscow saying the exact same thing. endless disputes vs unity, the fathers of the church who all supported the catholic view wisely saw this is the result of not having a clear leader set out
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>>4161146
Peter being the greatest does not mean he is infallible. Also, all the division you see in the orthodox churches pales in comparison to the various antipopes waging war against one another. Not to mention that there is no unity of dogma, since the uniates are allowed to completely believe in orthodox theology as long as they recognise the authority of the pope. This alone should be enough to demonstrate that the Vatican has fallen to the spirit of the world.
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>>4160096
That's some crazy historical illiteracy
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>>4161382
From you, yeah. Pick up a book that isn't filled with braindead religious indoctrination for once in your life, anon.
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>>4161387
I have been an atheist my entire life, and still haven't gone to church even though now I accept the plausibility of the theist framework. I have gone out of my way to avoid those cheesy propaganda books you seem to have in mind, and dedicated most of my time reading philosophy, logic and and books about scientific methodology and its criticisms. Once you learn to stop projecting things will become clearer anon.
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>>4161468
>all that blogposting
>no actual argument
Fuck off faggot
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>>4161591
false
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>>4161757
cope
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>>4161380
>Peter being the greatest does not mean he is infallible.
if his job is to have the final say in church teaching what is the point of having someone who can say something wrong. his decision has to be authoritative. that's why peter was the authority, and it's why the fathers organized the church around that authority. it doesnt make any sense to have a church with endless disputes over big theological things
>all the division you see in the orthodox churches pales in comparison...
i dont know how you can compare what's going on with the patriarchs of moscow and constantinople to latin rite catholics not being able to marry and having unleavened hosts, and eastern catholics having families and having leavened bread. demonstrate the vatican has fallen to the spirit of the world because there are minor ethnic and liturgical differences? get real man, next you'll be telling me there's no catholic church anymore because there's no mandatory latin in the mass

people who are orthodox love talking about the church fathers and traditions of the fathers, but you go and look at what they say, what they believe, what they wrote down in the councils and it totally goes against them.
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>>4149801
Malachi Martin is a mysterious figure. His book Hostage to the Devil is the most terrifying thing I've ever read, it's about demonic possession btw, he was a very active excorcist himself but the book covers cases of other excorcist.
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>>4162116
Peter as the authority lol
he was rebuked (rightly) by Paul
and James was the head of the first council
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>>4139318
We don't hate the Catholics. We hate the papacy which has betrayed you and yet you refuse to get rid of them
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>>4146245
It's stuff like this that makes me proud of being orthodox.

They're out in the cold, while raining and you see every other car go left and right to allow the priests to drive faster. Just human decency from both sides
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>>4162219
in my bible Peter gets up, rebukes everyone and right afterwards James simply carries out what he says. it goes in line with how the church fathers believe because they all say as much, that peter is the one in charge, and through his leadership and decision making there is unity. if there are more than one decision makers that can be at odds with eachother there is no unity. please don't pretend there is any kind of tradition backing you up on this because there isn't
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>>4162549
Peter is just the archetypal high priest, he doesn't have the keys, this is all the fault of RC talmudics, it's debates like these which tempt me to apostasize from this Jewish religion, I was born Orthodox, all I know is God is the greatest. Someone show me how the Byzantine empire was made up of ethnic hellenes, I would also like to see stories of how hellenes converted to Christianity how come I never see the church fathers engaging in the actual metaphysics of theology of the old religion. Oh we hate human sacrifice even if voluntary, well isn't Christian martyrdom just voluntary human sacrifice also? I know that there is the One, still after all this time, of watching orthodox videos, trying to read books like the fount of Knowledge, some palamite works, I want to know. How did a priest of Apollo or Zeus ever convert to Christianity?

Why is there only Jesus Christ the jew, the Father and the Holy Spirit, and why is any other God which is not these, no matter how good and great, why are they all demons which should be cleansed in the name of Jesus Christ, the Father and the Holy Spirit. What's so bad about Shiva for example?

Not only this, why is it the more Jewish the tradition the better? I hundred percent agree that the Orthodox is the most traditional church, the most like the ancient Jews, what's so wrong about sacrificing to God? Doing what Christians do and also performing sacrifices, isn't this greater devotion? We slaughter animals to eat every day to fill our bellies, yet why are we so prohibited in leaving a little food offering to God to express gratitude, without any expectation on Gods part to receive it? Someone tell me.
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>>4160260
Wow soo deep!! This is not that profound, kids themselves know about the volatility of the human condition or of mortal affairs, yet when it is in the Great Jewish Book it becomes something we all must praise, compare with the exhortations of Isokrates for example. Is this some big joke, like the Europeans take the knee to the Judaized God to feel some euphoric sense of humility wash over them? What is going on here?
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>>4162565
i can't be bothered to respond to most of that because it's mostly just nonsense. however since you bring up my original disagreement with the OP i'll say it again. read the fathers. orthodoxy does not represent traditional christianity from the church fathers, because the church fathers believed peter's successors role is the same as it is today, to be the unifying tiebreaker, and to be in charge of the orthodoxy of the faith. this is what the fathers read, and you can view my patristic quotations here in this thread or seek them out elsewhere yourself.
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>>4162581
Do you watch that guy Ubi Petrus? I am already aware of this debate, I don't really care, there are many patriotic quotations which provide evidence opposing your own. How about the filoloque How How you justify that?

>most of what I wrote was nonsense

Fuck you bro. So you can sit here and push your polemic, justify yourself? Why is Christianity do explicit in Jesus Christ over absolutely everything?
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>>4162586
>patristic
>why is Christianity so explicit in anathematising absolutely everything which
>>
>>4162587
Which is not Jesus Christ and Christianity.
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>>4162586
you're just talking nonsense man. i don't care about talking about some weird crypto pagan/gnostic shit. i'm replying to other people. go read maximillian the confessor on the filioque, or just scroll up because it's been asked and answered in the thread. the patristic consensus is as i have said, and the councils say so as well. just because origen or one or two others might have something to say to the contrary (on this issue i'm not aware of any) that doesn't mean there is no consensus
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>>4162565
No one will tell you because the answer is inconvenient to them. But you know the answer already, Christianity is just another man-made religion, but one which, out of a deep rooted Jewish fanaticism, desperately wishes it had been the ONLY religion to validate itself and its claims.
I was surprised to find out that, of all people, it was Adolf Hitler who most succinctly addressed this issue in Mein Kampf. The following is an excerpt from Chapter 5, "Worldview and Organization:"

>Christianity was not content with erecting an altar of its own. It had first to destroy the pagan altars. It was only in virtue of this passionate intolerance that an apodictic faith could grow up. And intolerance is an indispensable condition for the growth of such a faith. It may be objected here that in these phenomena which we find throughout the history of the world we have to recognize mostly a specifically Jewish mode of thought and that such fanaticism and intolerance are typical symptoms of Jewish mentality. That may be a thousandfold true; and it is a fact deeply to be regretted. The appearance of intolerance and fanaticism in the history of mankind may be deeply regrettable, and it may be looked upon as foreign to human nature, but the fact does not change conditions as they exist to-day.

(1/2)
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>>4162817
>The men who wish to liberate our German nation from the conditions in which it now exists cannot cudgel their brains with thinking how excellent it would be if this or that had never arisen. They must strive to find ways and means of abolishing what actually exists. A philosophy of life which is inspired by an infernal spirit of intolerance can only be set aside by a doctrine that is advanced in an equally ardent spirit and fought for with as determined a will and which is itself a new idea, pure and absolutely true. Each one of us to-day may regret the fact that the advent of Christianity was the first occasion on which spiritual terror was introduced into the much freer ancient world, but the fact cannot be denied that ever since then the world is pervaded and dominated by this kind of coercion and that violence is broken only by violence and terror by terror. Only then can a new regime be created by means of constructive work.

https://greatwar.nl/books/meinkampf/meinkampf.pdf

(2/2)
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>>4162817
>>4162819
>Hitler mana
Got btfo by the pope who addressed him only to get so buttmad he started calling him a jewish puppet and was making up shit and propaganda to get back at and invading the vatican and killing the pope.
That's your leader a horrific failure.
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>>4162219
There were also saints that rebuked the pope that doesn't stop them from being a religious leader.
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>>4163396
planned to get back at him and sacking the vatican*
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>>4162565
> just voluntary human sacrifice also? I know that there is the One, still after all this time, of watching orthodox videos, trying to read books like the fount of Knowledge, some palamite works, I want to know. How did a priest of Apollo or Zeus ever convert to Christianity?

No hardly the same thing the martyrs for God chose to die for the faith, whereas pagan sacrifice is apart of a ritual.

>ow did a priest of Apollo or Zeus ever convert to Christianity?
Depends on whom and where Christianity was at the time.

>Why is there only Jesus Christ the jew, the Father and the Holy Spirit
Because that is how God wanted to represent himself as.

>Not only this, why is it the more Jewish the tradition the better?
It doesn't claim to be better nor do a good chunk of it is followed anymore due to Church traditions being vastly different to judaism.

The council of Vienne rejected traditions that are no longer necessary such as circumcision.

And the only thing for traditions like circumcision to be even be viable is if it's the only medical option they have left.

527 Jesus' circumcision, on the eighth day after his birth,209 is the sign of his incorporation into Abraham's descendants, into the people of the covenant. It is the sign of his submission to the Law210 and his deputation to Israel's worship, in which he will participate throughout his life. This sign prefigures that "circumcision of Christ" which is Baptism.211

https://www.chausa.org/publications/health-progress/article/september-october-2006/to-circumcise-or-not-to-circumcise-

Now the people who do observe the mosiac law and say is better are known as judiazer/hebrew purity spiral (were a thing since the early church)
if the either churches orthodox or Catholic were still like this holidays like Christmas, easter Etc... Etc.. would not have existed.
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>>4163396
>started calling him a jewish puppet
Based but every pope since the Rothschild loans to the Vatican has been a Jewish puppet. Not that brainwashed cucktholics will ever admit it though.
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>>4138407
Nice; I made that webbum - the audio was taken by my brother in an old church in Russia while studying there. Glad to see it circulating.
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>>4161146
>all of the apostles asked Jesus who was the greatest among them, and Jesus essentially says Peter is, because he's serving the rest
What a cope. Jesus said that to keep their egos in check and shut them up on the subject. How Peter behaves years later is not evidence that Jesus was specifically at that time saying Peter would be greatest. At most it says that the one who works to serve the most would be greatest, putting it as a challenge to the disciples to put in that work.
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>>4163525
Yeah Jesus also calls Peter Satan.
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>>4163497
If I remember correctly doesn't the rothchilds use usury along with some bankers?
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>>4163612
Usury is an unethical loan. Some interpret this as loanshark rates, others take it as interest in any form. The British government took out a 15 million pound loan from the Rothschilds in order to buy out all slaveowners when they abolished slavery and didn't finish repayment until 2015, although this is apparently more due to the way the payment system of the time worked and was never updated. Adjusted for inflation, that loan comes to 1.8 billion pounds today.
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>>4163525
look man i dont care what you think, because the fathers talk about this and they say otherwise. that's been my claim throughout this whole thread. orthodoxy is not 'traditional christianity handed down from the fathers'. because patristic consensus is that peter and his successors hold a position where all other churches must agree (st Iranaeus, st Cyprian, st Ignatius) Jesus made the point that the greatest among them serves the others. that's why rome has to give advice, mediate disputes, etc to the other churches. and right after he's said all of that he turns to peter and says "strengthen your brothers". he's saying right after he said all that that Peter must be in this role, serving the others
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>>4163612
The Catholic church banned "usury" and specifically employed the Jews as their financial agents, makiny them the only ones allowed to charge interest. The modern Jew is a Catholic creation.
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>>4164159
Sounds to me you been into the protestant rabbithole.
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>>4164027
>that's why rome has to give advice, mediate disputes, etc to the other churches
Rome has repeatedly crusaded against Orthodoxy with sheer violence, attempted to convert Orthodox (and still do), and how do they deal with their heresies? Oh thats right, start wars - Protestant reformation wasnt the first, what happened to the Cathars???
Meanwhile Orthodox heresies are solved with words - Look up Gregory the Theologian as an example. This is why we have Saints.
The Vatican and their shenanigans is a great example of the sin of pride - and you can see through the historical examples and the actions of their "Popes" deemed to be infallible.
No religion has killed more Christians than Roman Catholics, but Protestants will catch up I am sure.
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>>4164813
>but Protestants will catch up I am sure.
How much are Prots killing today?
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>>4164749
Indeed. I was raised Catholic but no one told me the first step towards it was to read the bible and study the church's history. If someone wishes to take the bluepill to remain Catholic they would do well to avoid these things.
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>>4164813
>he actions of their "Popes" deemed to be infallible.
They are only deemed infallible in ex cathedra and morality and faith outside of that they are just as fallible as any other being they aren't impeccable.
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>>4147767
The Bible is not translatable.
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>>4165030
>sit in a chair
>speak
>can't fail now
wow nice system you got there
>>
>>4159431
The Jesus Prayer in Russian
https://youtu.be/C7-VLJxLEV4
>>
>>4139318
The Crusades overall hindered the Byzantines more than they helped.
Despite Manzikert, in the Turks the Byzantines weren't facing a threat that stood out from all those prior. The Persians prior to the rise of Islam, and the initial Saracen expansion following Muhammad's death both pushed the Byzantines up against the wall far more than the Turks had after Manzikert. The Byzantines needed rest and stability, and they ended up with neither as roaming bands of adventurers took Byzantine land as personal fiefs and pointedly refused to cooperate with the Byzantines, often times striking at Saracens who had previously allied themselves to the Byzantines.
The Crusader states also served as a far more effective scapegoat for Islamic concentration of force, who previously had primarily fought amongst themselves.

Spanish success in the Reconquista mostly mirrored Turkish success against the Byzantines: An opportunistic enemy winning land with little consequence against a foe utterly beset by innumerable internal and external issues.
When the Muslims in Iberia and North Africa mounted a concerted defense, the Reconquista was practically immobile.

Faith can never be truly divorced from secular manners due to the nature of man. There are innumerable reasons to attack the Catholic Church from an Orthodox perspective, as the Pope played kingmaker frequently and in almost every capacity spat in the eye of their eastern brothers as they greedily clawed for all they could take.
Believers are not inherently defined by their Church, but most choose to be. The secular meddling of the Catholic church, even quite close to the modern day is an affront to nearly every principle the church pretends to uphold as the heirs of St. Peter.

Division is weakness and fermenting strife is hardly morally sound, but I don't believe anyone is capable of the forgiveness necessary to tolerate the Catholic Church.
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>>4138171
I love these threads, the greatest mistake a person could make is to have nothing sacred to them, may be why so many comedians have depression and suicide. When nothing is sacred. As rugged, awful, and unnecesarily cruel as 4chan can get, there are so many on here who hold things sacred. Keep on keepin on friends. May you and your families endure the darkness and confusion to come.
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>>4150087
>constant Jihading throughout Europe almost similar to that of terrorist attacks nowadays.
I don't think I've ever read something as false as this
I think it's utterly incomprehensible how somebody could come to this conclusion.
Modern terrorism relies on globalism. The middle ages were almost as far from globalism as you could possibly reach.
Communities were insular and generally ignorant of little beyond the bounds of their immediate environment.
The concept of a terrorist, ignited by Islamic fervor striking at all in medieval Europe, let alone in more than one location in more than one occasion is absurd.
Selfish and arbitrary violent martyrdom is a modern invention as it requires the very bored to go to great lengths to fulfill their own warped interpretation of God's will.
Martyrdom in the middle ages was very rare and mostly took place in the aftermath of large events. Such as when thousands of Greek women were enslaved by a Saracen army; and despite expectations of conversion to Islam and living the life of essentially chattel slaves and wives: Until the army returned home the women's wishes and modesty were respected. So they requested permission to bathe privately, permission was granted and each of the women drowned one another so that none would be forced to give up their faith.
Individual acts of violent martyrdom by either Christians or Muslims in this time period is absurd.

You might mistakenly be thinking of the Barbary Corsairs; North African pirates who pillaged and enslaved Christians for centuries throughout coastal Europe, but this did not occur in the age of the Crusades, much less prior to them.

The concept of Jihad and the organization of a Crusade are also vastly different things.

Crusades were originally conceived by a Pope who felt powerfully against the Schism. He was well intentioned and called the First Crusade to recover the holy places of Christianity and theoretically assist his fellow Christians.
>>
Cont: >>4165199

The issue arose that such a dramatic declaration of a holy mission to reclaim and protect land halfway across the known world from his sphere of influence attracted approximately two types of individuals, a tiny minority and an extreme majority.
Respectively, these were greedy nobility who thirsted for land and adventure, but none was to be found at home; as well as very, very simply motivated peasants.

The Byzantines loathed the idea of the Crusade the moment they heard about it. Alexios I was praised as a very competent ruler, but his greatest success, often not given the credit it is due, was arranging for the feeding and clean peaceful passage of the Crusaders through his lands. He had to house and manage lords who less than a decade prior had been his enemy, and innumerable Franks whose culture was so alien that passing through Greece they probably believed everything they witnessed to be heretical(and were likely judged in turn by the locals).
It was a miracle that the Byzantines survived the First Crusade unscathed. Though as I mentioned in my other post, they did end up paying the price for the Crusades, just over a longer period of time.

"Jihad" at the time was very different than a Papal declaration of a holy mission, and generally represented a martial stance towards the continued spread of the Islamic faith and the lands administered by Muhammad's successors. The best example of the meeting of contemporary Islam and the Crusaders was that the Crusades harshly persecuted and executed a significant volume of the local Muslim population, when Salah al-Din retook Jerusalem he did so peacefully. Even after unfavorable terms as the defenders threatened large numbers of Muslim people and their temples.
>>
>>4165199
>>4165201

Is synonymous with it because most of the time it is done to establish the religion for the shake of allah, the main difference now is that it is in far more smaller scales than what it used to be.

But no they definitely hit some parts of Europe.
And including far beyond the crusades like vienna with the winged huzzars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvTL5xJ4dVg

>The concept of Jihad and the organization of a Crusade are also vastly different things.
That is the point of my post Crusades and Jihad are completely different.

4th one was a mistake tho.

> The best example of the meeting of contemporary Islam and the Crusaders was that the Crusades harshly persecuted and executed a significant volume of the local Muslim population
Depends on the timeline right after, even people that despised the Christians and Franks ibn jubayr admitted they had a just system
>>
>>4164813
>>4165183

yea go ahead and avoid the theological patristic question and talk about some irrelevant history. fact is that this is what the fathers said, and this is the faith handed down from them. an organized church with a clear leader, and a way to give choose a successor to the leader. that's it. i dont care if people in the church have been at war with eachother, paul says everyone has sinned and fallen short of the glory of god and to pretend that anyone on earth isn't a completely wretched and undeserving sinner and oh these guys are just too bad to be the real church is retarded. face the fact that the ancient christians from the time of Jesus had leaders, peter and his successors and stop pretending otherwise
>>
I've seen some people say that to get to heaven, all you have to do is believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins and as long as you believe that, any sins you commit will be forgiven. Is this true? To me, it sounds far too forgiving and too easy. I understand that God and Jesus love us and that Jesus died for our sins, but I do not think they would forgive everything we do just for believing in them. I think they would at the very least want us to do our best to follow their laws and would be willing to forgive some missteps along the way.

Also what does the Orthodox Church believe that differs from the other denominations? What do different denominations believe in general that differ from each other? Do you have to believe in the right denomination in order to get to heaven?
>>
>>4165283
>all you have to do is believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins and as long as you believe that, any sins you commit will be forgiven. Is this true?
No, you have to repent for your sins. God doesn't forgive those who don't seek forgiveness.
>>
>>4164813
>Meanwhile Orthodox heresies are solved with words
Not entirely, the Orthodox church brutalized the Judaizers and Old Believers.
>>
>>4165223
>Catholicuck screeching nonsense about his pure Pope
So tiring.
>>4164818
Nazis, USA - DW will catch up, you have to compete with Catholicucks whos church has existed only for ~970 years.
>>4165298
>Old Believers.
Pagans, but for the most part the Russian Orthodox Church did end up paying a heavy price in the 20th century.
>Judaizers
Satanism.
>>
>>4162116
>leavened or unleavened bread
The fact that you reduced the theological differences to this trivial nonsense when I never mentioned it demonstrates that you do not enter these discussions with a charitable mindset, and therefore answering you is a waste of time.

Nevertheless I will waste some of my time to Adress this:

>if his job is to have the final say in church teaching
That's not his job, it's the job of the ecumenical councils.

>the fathers organized the church around that authority.
They organised it around Gods authority, not Peters

>it doesnt make any sense to have a church with endless disputes over big theological things
Not only does the catholic church have this (or there wouldn't be a reformation) but thinking that having the most technically correct theology is crucial for salvation is born from the luciferian spirit. Theology needs only be clarified when there is heresy to fight, it is not what the Church should focus on. The Church also mustn't change it's views over the political pressure of a single Bishop
>>
>>4165305
Nazis were not Prots.
>>
>>4165111
Infallibility has been used 2 times in the last two centuries and 5-10 throughout 2000 times bro.
Kek
>>
>>4165305
>internet ortholarper who drives 40 miles to go to a latvian orthodox church where nobody speaks english goes online and writes 4chan posts about how the church fathers weren't catholic
>
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>>4165351
Yes they were, remember you can dilate and suck cock and be a Protestant because you take one piece of the Bible and make a congregation out of it. Most protties were for Nazis, the Catholic regions were against them, which is weird because killing Christians is Roman Catholic tradition.
>>4165408
I have 40 Orthodox churches within a mile.
It is called the Orthodox Catholic Church, get a grip, look up the definition of Orthodox.
Time for you to worship the Pope some more so he can glorify homosexuals and kiss some more muslim nigger feet.
>>
>>4165356
2000 years*
>>
>>4165161
Thanks
>>
>>4165616
>remember you can dilate and suck cock and be a Protestant because you take one piece of the Bible and make a congregation out of it
I thought this was an Orthodox thread not a Catholics seething over Protestants and Luther thread.
>>
I'm a Christian not a denomination
remember what body you are all part of
these organizations and traditions were created by men to further the will of God and the works of men fail
let the cross represent you first and how you worship second
it's a shame to see you all so divided and unforgiving of grievances we already know were no different than all of evil man has always done
>>
>>4165616
>be a Protestant because you take one piece of the Bible and make a congregation out of it
Yes. Namely, Matthew 18:20.
>>
>>4166670
it's almost like being christian doesn't actually make you a better person
>>
>>4167142
The primary purpose of Christianity is to sweep your filth under the rug and project an image of self-worth. True Christians are mediocre people who can only afford a higher opinion of themselves by pretending their flaws are virtues. Hence, low test beta cucks became saints and martyrs.
>>
>>4166659
Nigga orthodox don't like protestants either.
>>
>>4167219
>e primary purpose of Christianity is to sweep your filth under the rug and project an image of self-worth.
Number 1 that is not how it works
Number 2 that's pride.
>>
>>4138171
Give me back my foreskin you fuckin devils
>>
>>4167783
Hocus pocus
>>
>>4167777
Catholics and Orthodox are just as bad when it comes to people being religious in name only. To sit and complain about another prot denomination sprouting up instead of making their own congregations more fervent is silly, especially since you don't think they're real Christians anyway.
>>
>>4167989
Depends.
>>
i draw hentai cause im a neet faggot and im poor as dirt and i only do it cause im desperate for money and every workplace is demanding you get the vaxxed wich i know is the fucking mark, the people i live with have gotten it, my neighbors have gotten it, im scared and ponder suicide, mass starvation will hit soon and i am not fucking prepared for this shit
>>
>>4169604
Can you move back in with family? I'm not taking the vaccine either, but because it's not good (or good enough) medicine.
I don't think this vaccine is the mark though. We're closing in on the real deal in the next 5 years though. Read Revelation again sometime, first comes the beast out of the sea with seven heads, one wounded and the healed. Then comes a beast out of the earth to make everyone worship the first beast and get the mark. Now I think it's pointless to waste time trying to decipher these things, but if either beast is a government or institution (like say, the EU), then something has to go wrong and be miraculously fixed first
>>
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>>4165616
why are you going to an orthodox church when you're clearly a westerner, wrong jurisdiction. you should be going to a western church, because the validly ordained catholic bishops have jurisdiction in the west enjoy larping and trying to understand the mass in lithuanian lmao too bad the church fathers disagree with u
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>>4139906
>>4153314
I wouldn't care if Catholic and Orthodox teachings were reformed to become exactly alike and I'd still say they should be separate. The divide is cultural, and in practice that implies geography and ethnicity. Are you suggesting that cultural differences should not exist and Christians should integrate into a uniform culture? And same for ethnicity? That's just wrong. It's OK to not be the same in every aspect. Isn't there nothing wrong with having the same theology called by different names for different peoples? Isn't it OK to allow for separate cultures, geographies, and ethnicities?
see >>4156751

>Venerating the virgin mary is actually idol worship
Of course it is. Christianity is absolutely schizophrenic with respect to idolatry. Let's stop pretending that the religion isn't fundamentally idol worship. I'm not ashamed.
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>>4170272
>Idol worship
No it isn't venerating=/=worship to do so is a heresy.
>>
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>>4170395
Not that anon but Catholics went out of their way to turn Mary into a pagan goddess. The Bible provides no support to all that excessive "veneration." And the rest of their cult of saints is literally rebranded paganism from converted regions of Europe.
>>
>>4170432
>Catholics went out of their way to turn Mary into a pagan goddess. The Bible provides no support to all that excessive "veneration."

>." And the rest of their cult of saints is literally rebranded paganism from converted regions of Europe.

Both are found in the bible and during the early church anon...

luke 1:28
28 And he came to her and said, “Hail, full of grace,[a] the Lord is with you!”[b]

Luke 1:42-43
41 And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit 42 and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!

Luke 1:46-56
“My soul magnifies the Lord,
47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
48 for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden.
For behold, henceforth >>>all generations<<< will call me blessed;
49 for he who is mighty has done great things for me,
and holy is his name.
50 And his mercy is on those who fear him
from generation to generation.
51 He has shown strength with his arm,
he has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts,
52 he has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree;
53 he has filled the hungry with good things,
and the rich he has sent empty away.
54 He has helped his servant Israel,
in remembrance of his mercy,
55 as he spoke to our fathers,
to Abraham and to his posterity for ever.”[j]

56 And Mary remained with her about three months, and returned to her home.

Job 42:8
8 Now therefore take seven bulls and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you, for I will accept his prayer not to deal with you according to your folly; for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has.”
>>
>>4170731
Romans 15:16
16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
>>
>>4170731
None of that even begins to justify Mary worship and the cult of saints.
>>
>>4169966
By that logic there shouldn't be any Greek Orthodox churches in Australia even for the Greeks that live here.
>>
>>4170395
>venerating=/=worship
This is case-in-point schizophrenia. Literally defining a word to exclude the inconvenient cases. I was taught this and I called it out as nonsense.
>>4170432
>And the rest of their cult of saints is literally rebranded paganism from converted regions of Europe.
That's pretty much how it is and I'm proud of that. I don't care if it's classified as polytheism or monotheism, and neither should any other westerners. The whole mono/poly issue is irrelevant to the teachings. The Catholic Church should face the reality and be proud instead of obstinately bickering with haters over semantics.
>>4170731
It makes more sense to just accept our pagan heritage. I won't be bullied into being ashamed by my ancestor's culture.
>>4170804
It doesn't justify it. It doesn't need justification. I think the veneration is unnecessary. It's also superficial. Only an insecure people would get upset about it.
>>4169966
>wrong jurisdiction.
>>4171108
>>
>>4171108
but that's the point, because orthodoxy is so ethnic and insular you have to have these extensions of the respective churches that are essentially extensions of a local patriarchate's jurisdiction. that's why you have all of these millions of tiny ethnic churches and it's why it's endlessly funny to a regular western catholic like me that some internet larper is hanging out with a bunch of latvian babushkas going to a mass they don't understand, and going to a highly specialised ethnic church they have no kind of legitimate connection to. nobody in the west has any business going to orthodox churches simply because if you believe in apostolic succession, as any so called orthodox should, then you should be going to a church in an appropriate jurisdiction which, if you are a westerner, are all catholic. not some weird latvian exclave of the local patriarchate
>>
>>4171712
That's why need more Orthodox churches in western countries, to give people an option other than the pedochurch and gradually drive them away from Catholicism.
>>
>>4170804
Well is biblical deal with it, when you "pray to the saints" you are asking them to pray for you or with you.

Rev 8:3-4
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; 4 and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God.

Revelation 5:8
8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints;

john 19:25-27
25 So the soldiers did this. But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Mag′dalene. 26 When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” 27 Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.

And for the record are you also saying that the early Church was wrong some church fathers that personally knew the apostles of Christ?

>>4171676
>This is case-in-point schizophrenia. Literally defining a word to exclude the inconvenient cases. I was taught this and I called it out as nonsense.
Venerating never meant worship or else I guess we worship our own parents, but that is besides fact we are not to or ever worship mary since that is a heresy and the Catholic Church made it clear what is idolatry and what isn't.
>I won't be bullied into being ashamed by my ancestor's culture.
I never said you should be as someone made a point here.
>>4156668
>>4163452
>>
>>4171811
2097 To adore God is to acknowledge, in respect and absolute submission, the "nothingness of the creature" who would not exist but for God. To adore God is to praise and exalt him and to humble oneself, as Mary did in the Magnificat, confessing with gratitude that he has done great things and holy is his name.14 The worship of the one God sets man free from turning in on himself, from the slavery of sin and the idolatry of the world

2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon."44 Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast"45 refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.46

2114 Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God. The commandment to worship the Lord alone integrates man and saves him from an endless disintegration. Idolatry is a perversion of man's innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who "transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God."47
>>
>>4171712
Going by what you're saying, should Chinese Christians only attend Nestorian churches? Should Germans only be Arians? The idea of a 'jurisdiction' can only exist within communion, because if you do not share communion with someone, obviously you do not recognize their jurisdiction.
You're also completely wrong with regard to Orthodoxy being "ethnic". Of the two Orthodox priests I know who's ethnic background I can speak for, neither are from an Orthodox country. There are a few Russians families at my parish but again its mostly Americans in the most strict 18th century terms. The OCA for example is recognized as autocephalous by several Orthodox churches.
>>
>>4171811
>Well is biblical deal with it, when you "pray to the saints" you are asking them to pray for you or with you.
It's only biblical when you twist scripture to fit your agenda.

>And for the record are you also saying that the early Church was wrong some church fathers that personally knew the apostles of Christ?
The apostles weren't infallible, they made many mistakes as recorded in the bible. Peter himself was constantly chastised by Jesus. And the church fathers probably made even more mistakes, considering they didn't have Jesus around to correct them.

With so many mistakes piling up it's no wonder that the Catholic church would progressively turn into a cesspool of degeneracy as the centuries unfolded.
>>
>>4172242
>It's only biblical when you twist scripture to fit your agenda.
In what way we often ask others to pray for each other as brothers and sisters in Christ in what way is it contradictory to ask saints who are in heaven to pray for us?

>The apostles weren't infallible, they made many mistakes as recorded in the bible. Peter himself was constantly chastised by Jesus. And the church fathers probably made even more mistakes, considering they didn't have Jesus around to correct them.

You are correct that they are not infallible, but they do have the holy spirit which does help guide the Church from error onto which lead to traditions, dogma, doctrine and the magisterum, faith, morality, theology which are never changing but they are things that can be debated like priest being able to marry because that is not dogma.

>With so many mistakes piling up it's no wonder that the Catholic church would progressively turn into a cesspool of degeneracy as the centuries unfolded.
That doesn't necessarily prove the Catholic Church position to be false or the Church that Christ has founded (orthodox can make this claim as well since they are considered apostolic) it is a church filled with many sinners after all also this isn't anything new either look how israel was during the old testament there have been times they been doing real degenerate stuff disobeying God, but in the end each time they had been redeemed, that doesn't mean the teachings nor the 10 commandments are invalid because of the people of israel.

As the saying goes don't leave Jesus because of judas.

>Peter himself was constantly chastised by Jesus

>. And the church fathers probably made even more mistakes, considering they didn't have Jesus around to correct them.
Hence why every time one falls into error or heresy it is called out almost immediately while they may not have Jesus currently present except in the euchrist they do have the holy spirit.
>>
>>4138171
>Orthodoxy only
>just pure Christianity as espoused by Christ
lol
>>
>>4172376
Yes
>>
>>4171740
except the orthodox authorities already recognise the western churches as being essentially composed of validly ordained bishops in the correct jurisdiction also enjoy the slur that comes from the jewish media, who ignore how new york rabbis are 18 times more likely to be pedos. keep laughing because the jews hate you too and will stop at nothing to lie and slander you also
>>4172063
but there is communion because the latin churches recognise the bishops and eucharist to be valid and vice versa. most orthodox churches you will come across will have been made for immigrant populations and they are an extensions of the jurisdiction of the patriarchate they originate from. the reason there is an orthodox church where you're at is because there are a bunch of russian americans living there. and don't talk to me about just a few, because it's probably most of them with roots there, either the sons, or the sons of sons. and the same with those priests you know, their ethnic background will likely be the same story. like in the deer hunter or something. no regular american westerner has any legitimate reason to venture in to a place like that and leave their western roots behind to attend a church designed to support a unique immigrant population. the traditions and culture the church is upholding are uniquely ethnic. seeing white americans going to a latvian orthodox church is clearly ridiculous because according to both traditions they are already under the jurisdiction of a validly ordained bishop. there's no need to visit the ethnic extension church.
>>
>>4172315
There was that one time a womanly saint called out the pope that one time to get his shit together.
>>
>>4138171
This thread is so based.
>>
hell yeah start a new one limit reached.
>>
>>4171811
>when you "pray to the saints" you are asking them to pray for you or with you.
Why pray to saints who will pray to God when you can just pray to God yourself? Cut out the middle man.
>>
>>4171712
>then you should be going to a church in an appropriate jurisdiction which, if you are a westerner, are all catholic
It would be under Protestant jurisdiction then for America, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. That runs contrary to a lot of things but under no circumstance would Catholocism have some prior jurisdiction over Orthodoxy in land formerly ruled by the Crown and Church of England.
>>
sedevecantism is superior to ortho
>>
>>4169842
its the fucking mark, i already stopped believing in a pre tribulation rapture, thats just convenient bullshit and wishful thinking, we are in the fucking apocalypse and im not getting fucking marked
>>
>>4172645
no retard because none of the protestants have valid apostolic succession, i already answered your question in the post. the point is that catholic and orthodox both recognise each others bishops as validly ordained. so why would you ever need to travel to an insular ethnic extension of a eastern patriarchate as a westerner to patricipate in the communion of the one true church? oh wait you dont because they both recognize each other's bishops and eucharist, unlike what online ortholarpers would have you believe
>>
>>4172481
My priest is a convert from Protestantism. You are also wrong about communion. Catholics allow people their faithful to accept communion from Orthodox Churches and may also provide it to Orthodox Christians, however Orthodox Churches will never provide communion to a Catholic and will not permit its faithful to receive it from a Catholic Church either, you don't seem to understand that the Catholic and Orthodox Churches are not in communion with each other.
You keep bringing up "Latvian Orthodox Churches", probably because your understanding of Orthodoxy comes from watching Seinfeld. Orthodoxy originated in America in Alaska from a Russian mission, look at St. Herman and St. Innocent. Catholicism originated in America from a Spanish mission. Is Catholicism an "ethnic extension" of romantic Europeans, or South Americans? Many Orthodox Churches are centered around a certain diaspora, but it is far from the truth that in America as a whole, Orthodoxy is an "ethnic extension". In fact there are "Western Rite" parishes in ROCOR. By the way, does Catholicism not condemn phyletism as a heresy? If not, why shouldn't - by your logic - these Latvian babushkas attend a Catholic Church, if they are in the West?
>>
>>4173182
Pretty sure eastern orthodox sacraments are still considered valid according to the Catholic Church and vice versa.
>>
>>4173221
For the third time, if you try to receive the Eucharist as a Catholic in an Orthodox Church, they will not give it to you. When I asked my deacon about bringing a Catholic friend of my to Church, he told me to make sure he understood that he cannot receive communion.
https://www.oca.org/questions/divineliturgy/receiving-communion
>>
>>4172315
>In what way we often ask others to pray for each other as brothers and sisters in Christ in what way is it contradictory to ask saints who are in heaven to pray for us?
Saints in life did nothing but pray. If they are in heaven asking them to pray for us is redundant at best and a lame excuse to try to validate the crypto-pagan cult of saints proliferated by the Catholic church.

>>4172315
>You are correct that they are not infallible, but they do have the holy spirit which does help guide the Church from error
>>4172315
>That doesn't necessarily prove the Catholic Church position to be false or the Church that Christ has founded (orthodox can make this claim as well since they are considered apostolic) it is a church filled with many sinners after all

Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions

>As the saying goes don't leave Jesus because of judas
>Hence why every time one falls into error or heresy it is called out almost immediately
The Catholic church has been a corrupt institution for nearly 1000 years.
>>
>>4172763
>they both recognize each other's bishops and eucharis
As the other anon said that is definitely false. So, if someone decided to start going to church and the closest one to him was an Orthodox church, should he not attend that and become Orthodox instad of going out and finding the nearest Catholic church in order to avoid the "insular ethnic extensions" of Orthodoxy and instead surround himself with Italians and Irish?
>>
Znamenny chant from 17th century Russia
https://youtu.be/WsF1ncGAQHo
>>
>>4174069
Also, your catholic pope is a buffoon marionette of ruling powers, that completely embraces the degenerate agenda:he washed the feet of refugees, than he was okay with gay people attending churches, I think they would find a special trans-gay Saint to justify the self before the left
>>
>>4174103
>he washed the feet of refugees
Jesus washed the feet of fishermen and tax collectors.
>>
>>4154242
>Jesus never existed.
Lol, even the Pre-Christian Romans acknowledged Jesus Existence.
>>
>>4138220
What thread do you think you're in buddy?
>>
>>4138404
transgender christ
>>
>>4173431
>aints in life did nothing but pray. If they are in heaven asking them to pray for us is redundant at best and a lame excuse to try to validate the crypto-pagan cult of saints proliferated by the Catholic church.

Jesus had told and ordered Christians to pray for one another so how and why is that redundant when they are in heaven?

>The Catholic church has been a corrupt institution for nearly 1000 years.

The neither of the passages you chose would apply for this, since Jesus is the one that is still leading that Church.

It's actually this passage that would definitely apply.

Matthew 23:1-3
Then said Jesus to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat; 3 so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice.
>>
>>4174600
>Jesus had told and ordered Christians to pray for one another so how and why is that redundant when they are in heaven?
Pray *to God* for one another. You don't need to ask people who are already in heaven to pray for you.

>The neither of the passages you chose would apply for this, since Jesus is the one that is still leading that Church
If Jesus was leading that church it would be quite different.
>>
>>4174600
We don't exactly need any particular Bible verse to know what the state of the Catholic Church has been over the past 10 centuries. Protestants would not exist if not for the sorry state of the Church in the early 16th century.



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