[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vm / vmg / vr / vrpg / vst / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k / s4s / vip / qa] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / pw / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / vt / wsg / wsr / x / xs] [Settings] [Search] [Mobile] [Home]
Board
Settings Mobile Home
/vst/ - Video Games/Strategy

[Advertise on 4chan]

Name
Spoiler?[]
Options
Comment
Verification
4chan Pass users can bypass this verification. [Learn More] [Login]
File[]
  • Please read the Rules and FAQ before posting.
  • There are 171 posters in this thread.

08/21/20New boards added: /vrpg/, /vmg/, /vst/ and /vm/
05/04/17New trial board added: /bant/ - International/Random
10/04/16New board for 4chan Pass users: /vip/ - Very Important Posts
[Hide] [Show All]


[Advertise on 4chan]


File: Capture.png (90 KB, 657x643)
90 KB
90 KB PNG
Who would have thought? It is so insanely funny to me to see reddit do this every single time a company, especially ones who make strategy games, immediately jump to defend whatever shitty decisions they're putting in their games that just make them more casual friendly.
They do the exact same thing with creative assembly and Warhammer, with even the mods on their subreddit outright banning any negative discussion.
If you don't believe me go on there yourself and you will see the entire place absolutely flooded with threads talking about how great this idea is, all of them getting massive amounts of upvotes. It's insane.
>>
>I would actually like an good ai and a chain of command
Too bad moron, you will get neither.
>>
>>833943
also
>some improvements
It's funny how these guys larp like they are in charge of game design. Paradox does jackshit with these type of comments unless they really cant get around it.
>>
>>833943
Nigger do you know how cheap it is to buy Plebbit upboats?
Just hire an intern for minimum wage, buy a subscription to some botfarm and tell the intern to astroturf the fuck out of plebbit. Plebbit is objectively the worst for this since Youtube and Facebook have bot mitigation and people just accept Twitter is full of bots but plebbit is a cash cow with zero improvement from the owners and also has this circle jerking community that think themselves smarter then they are.
Do not trust anything from plebbit if it's any way related to the product of a decent sized company or politically relevant.
>>
>>833943
The worst part is them going
> Author: [NOT EVEN BOTHERING TO CREATE A MAN OUT OF THE STRAW]
>Comments: "Your post sucks, nobody acts like this"
>Author: "uhhh it's satire you dumb bitch"
>>
>>833943
I couldn't give less of a shit what reddit thinks. Go back.
>>
>>833956
>Paradox does jackshit with these type of comments unless they really cant get around it.
Ignoring what soiredditor consoomer-drones think is based, the problem is: Paracuck is largely made up of these cretins these days, so expect a lot of their bullshit finding their way into the game.
>>
>>833943
that subreddit is filled with cumguzzlers that'll play any game long as it had the title victoria 3 in it. most of them never played a victoria game but just latched onto vic3 because its a meme like half life 3
>>
>>834268
That's true, a lot of them are really not the type of guys that should even be working on games like this. Still, devs can design entire game mechanics while being completely impervious to outside criticism (if they even receive any of that through all the fellating they get from forumites) and only backtrack when the negative response is severe enough.
>>
>>833943
Taking away direct control of armies from monarchs and other heads of state is a great idea, especially in the Victorian era where none would be leading the charge in battle. I understand concerns about inadequate AI, but the people crying about this added level of realism seem like historically illiterate crybabies.
>>
>>834282
IT'S NOT EVEN ABOUT PLAYER CONTROL YOU FUCKING RETARD, IT'S ABOUT THE FACT THE SYSTEM APPEARS TO BE SURFACE DEEP WITH NO WAY FOR AI GENERALS TO PULL OFF ENCIRCLEMENTS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT
>>
>No, not my hecking warferinos!
>Moving doomstacks manually is quintesential part of a game about economy
Everyone who is upset about this should just kill themselves.
>>
>>833943
IF, and that's a big IF, the AI is good, then I have no problem with this.
>>
>>834282
i have no direct problem with adding more realism and restrictions to the player, but what's happening here is selective application of it. At one feature they're saying this thing is realistic but for gameplay purposes we'll abstract it or give player some abstract power over the mechanic, and then for another feature use realism as a shield to deflect criticism, that is the problem.
>>
>>834289
We know it won't happen, at least for another 2 years. But at least it's a better direction.
I'm glad I won't have to fuck around and merge or disband the 78th Dinglefuck Engineering Corps because all the soldiers in the county of Dinglefuck decided they wanted to become artisans and the 78th Dinglefuck Engineering Corps refuses to take manpower from anywhere else.
>>
>>834282
>y-you are playing as the monarch
No you're not.

>>834287
Presumably you've played grand strategy games before, but somehow armies are an issue only now?
>>
>>834292
>but somehow armies are an issue only now
They're always been an issue, how can you browse this board and not see people complain about gookclicks in everything ever since it was spawned? Including paradox games.
>>
File: fox and the grapes.jpg (57 KB, 358x624)
57 KB
57 KB JPG
>>834294
Nobody ever asked paradox to remove warfare from their games.
>>
Why not make VNs at this point? With Paradox's resources they can shit a new one every three months.
>>
>>834302
Those can actually be a lot of fun though
>>
>>834299
Correct, some people just complained about the micro heavy gookclicking and wished for a more hands off warfare that allowed more focus and depth to the grand strategic side than the fine tactics.
We won't get that we'll get half baked shit, but it's not an unreasonable wish.
>>
>>834302
based Suzerain poster
>>
>>834307
Fair enough.
>>
>>834282
Oh so thats why I have complete and total control of the industry in a capitalist economy, very authentic. Thank you paradox!
>>
>>833943
Reddit people, moreso than normal people, feel the need to internalize and make part of their own identity their chosen subs. They don't just casually browse a gaming sub, no, they "are a gamer". So an attack or insult on their subs subject matter is an attack or insult on their own identity, and as such not to be taken lightly. This is also how you can tell we have an unbearable amount of reddit I flux, many people here these days do the same, it is why generals with set in stone pastebins exist.
>>
>>834302
outside of some annoying bullshit, suzerain is actually good though.
>>
>>833943
calm down gamedev companies spend up to 50% of their budget on marketing and paradox jannies are stasi on steroids
you get worked up over bots and pajeet shills with bought upvotes
>>
>>834307
We already had that in HoI 3 and HoI 2 where you can make the AI control your armies.
>>
>>834316
Another reason I hated Victoria II, way too much micromanaging and power in the hands of the player.
>>
>>834337
The post you are replying to is refering to the fact that private funds can be used by the player to invest in stuff in victoria 3, rather than capitalists doing it like vic2. A lot of the micro could be fixed by just adding templates and build ques and things like that, rather than completely revamping aspects of the game.
>>
>>834330
And we must return to it.
>>
If i'm supposed to be the head of state why do I have control over diplomacy, internal politics, and the econony like some omnipotent nationalist god
If i'm not supposed to be the head of state why can't I control the armies
>>
>expecting anything out of paradox
i thought vic 2 were better, this is the equivalent of the med 2 and rome 2 total war schizos being hyped for troy
>>
>>834348
because Johan is getting old and can't micro no more
>>
>>834319
This, the paradox drones have turned their droning into a way of life. Paradox could release literal shit in a CD case, and the drones would still defend it, not because they think shit is great, but because a drone only knows how to drone.
>>
>your criticism needs to be polite and constructive!!
>write an entire essay
>nobody reads it
>>
>>834319
yep, give it a couple weeks you'll have a lot of REE posts there on mainpage complaining about other people criticizing the game and "can't handle all the negativity all i want is to CONSOOM" type of posts
>>
>>834348
Because the game is to be released on consoles and supposed to be played on gamepads.
>>
I think paradox is gonna completely miss the point of why people like crusader kings, they seem hung up on shit like how hoi4 works. In Victoria 2 you're not just the leader, you're the house/senate, local ruling government and the military. Seems they're still upset people micro in hoi4, even though you pretty much have to, and they're just removing it all together. Wouldn't be surprised if the economy is fundamentally flawed due to being swedish.
>>
>>834412
All produced goods are assumed to be bought, lul. No stockpiles either.
>>
>>834412
At this point just railroad my experience entirely.
All their games are going the direction of Risk, which at this point is arguably the better game anyway. Honestly, Risk multiplayer is more fun than any of the nu-dox games.
>>
>>834417
shit this is gonna be a mutilated eu4 clone with no combat isn't it
>>
>>834412
>Seems they're still upset people micro in hoi4, even though you pretty much have to
It was so stupid of them to want to remove micro though. Encircling armies, carefully executing multiple plans at once, fighting on the land, sea and in the air was what made HoI2 and HoI3 satisfying for me. Vic3 might not be a war game, but Hearts of Iron certainly is, the battleplans AI is worthless, but I feel like it shouldn't have been in the game to begin with.
>>
>>834282
>no this is actually more historically accurate!

you are playing a video game, retard.

it is a simulation, abstracted. it isn't real and never will be. We can get very close to the real thing sometimes, but relying on this retarded meme of 'historically accurate so good!' is completely asinine. in real life statecraft was very boring, full of paper work and required hundreds of people to manage and administrate. You are playing a fucking video game.

If the systems suck, the systems suck. They should try to be authentic to the history, but trying to cover up a shitty system under a vague idea of 'that's just how it was!' is utterly asinine.
>>
>>834427
Ya it was a weird decision to simplify everything but then go heavy on the "the ai is supposed to do it" stuff. Naval invasions, paradrops, huge planning bonuses . But then they got rid of Theater Hq so it's almost a chore to use the ai on big fronts with the army size limits. Not to mention they constantly are walking around instead of just shuffling a bit.
>>
>>834454
Yes it's super frustrating to see entire armies movies around because their part of the assigned front changed for some stupid reason. And yet, HoI4 was a smashing success and its gameplay has many multiple times the amount of views and attention on websites like youtube.
>>
>>834282
The problem is not that I as player can't control war. It is that the proces of war has been reduced to two armies rolling dice at each other. It isn't like there is an AI commander who I cant control but whose exploits I can follow, that would be cool.

Furthermore your idea of a head of state not having a say in military operations is nanobrain tier retarded. They, as a rule, didn't micromanage the battlefield, but they, even in victorian age, did have great influence on what battles were fought, where they were fought, and when they were fought.

Your idea of realism is the head of state waking up one morning, declaring war on a country, then not goving a single shit about any battle or war development, instead leaning back being satisfied with the information that "the war is being fought on all our shared borders sir". The fuck sort of braindamage do you need to think that is realism?
>>
>>834471
Also, you're not necessarily playing as the ruler. Governments in these games change, but you remain in charge.

And his reasoning is arbitrary anyway, since you could just say the same thing about any aspect of the game, some rulers were not personally involved with the economy and surely they probably didn't care whether some factory somewhere had a certain upgrade.
>>
It's great move by Paradox, get the credit for Trying Something New™ while reverting to stuff so simple you don't need to keep anyone expansive around in the company. No risk since their customer base is very loyal. Bravo, Johan, bravo!
>>
>>834421
it would be a better stellaris
>>
>>834282
You never heard of the Franco-Prussian War?
>>
>>834282
But having control of the capitalist investment pool with laissez faire is good too, right?
Fuck off, wiz.
>>
>>834286
>TO PULL OFF ENCIRCLEMENTS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT

That could easily be simulated in the current system, its all about dice rolls anyway.
>>
>>833943
>https://old.reddit.com/r/victoria3/comments/qtowyh/introduce_the_subreddit_gag_rule/
>N-NO! STOP SAYING BAD THINGS! I JUST WANT TO CONSOOM PLEASE DON'T BREAK THE ILLUSION!
>>
>>834409
>the game is to be released on phones and supposed to be played on touchscreens
ftfy
>>
>Increase ticks per day from 1 to 4
>Remove warfare anyway
What the fuck
>>
I always hated le unit stack warfare. I don't know if this new system will be good but I'm excited for a change at least.
Also less focus on war is exactly what grand strats, especially in the fucking 19th century, could do with. Really hoping we finally get a game that isn't just another rehash of 'blob to win and have nothing to do in peacetime' (though knowing PDX the latter will probably still turn out to be the case)
>>
>>834742
Anon, I'm not sure if you've realized this, but war is inseparable from peace time mechanics and vis versa. So much shit in the running of a nation is affected and affects war, to take that out of the hands of the player is to lock them out of half the game. And once again, the player has full power over economics, diplomacy, and internal politics. Why the fuck is war the only thing kept out of our direct control? How do you reconcile historical realism with the player being able to flip a dial here and there and end racism? At this point you might as well just be playing dwarf fortress or rimworld, and you'd probably have more fun with it than you would watching an AI flail around with your stacks in what could have very easily been a quick and decisive war.
>>
File: 1585503501311.jpg (141 KB, 600x900)
141 KB
141 KB JPG
>>834282
absolutely top tier bait sir my hat goes off to you
>>
>>834307
>the micro heavy gookclicking
what paradox games are you playing?
>>
>>834757
>At this point you might as well just be playing dwarf fortress or rimworld
This has been true for the past 10 or so years with regard to nu-dox games. Not to mention that DF is fucking free and comes with more content than a complete pack of DLC from nu-dox would give you.
I genuinely believe you have to be sick in the head to continue paying for and/or playing nu-dox games.
>>
>>834757
>war is inseparable from peace time mechanics and vis versa.
Wdym? Theyve made war more tied to peace-time mechanics (diplomacy, economy, trade, etc) than it ever has been in a PDX gsg.

>So much shit in the running of a nation is affected and affects war
Is it? 1815-1914 was relatively peaceful. War was generally avoided (but threatened often enough).

>to take that out of the hands of the player is to lock them out of half the game.
If war is half the game then their stated design philosophy has failed.

>And once again, the player has full power over economics, diplomacy, and internal politics. Why the fuck is war the only thing kept out of our direct control?
Because the game is about those things more than it is about war. Overemphasis on war in other PDX games really doesn't do them any favours. Waging constant war and infinitely expanding being the most effective strategy is inaccurate and repetitive. This system is also better for modelling how wars actually happened inthe period.

>How do you reconcile historical realism with the player being able to flip a dial here and there and end racism?
Fleshing out and making realistic legislation is a tall order and, with this pretty simple pop system, not worth doing.

>...than you would watching an AI flail around with your stacks in what could have very easily been a quick and decisive war.
Hmm... were there any wars in this period envisioned as 'quick and decisive' only to turn out to be anything but.. no surely it's more interesting for every player war to be a curbstomp

Also:
As geopolitical sims PDX games will always suffer from 2 fatal flaws.
1) They are completely state-centric.
2) States as historical actors didnt have the luxury of infinite choice in their decisions, but as vidya devs PDX have to prioritise giving the player choice. This leads to easy and unrealistic games, and will with Vic 3 too. Less choice is unironically better if the choices you do have are more meaningful.
>>
>>834808
HOI3 is a great example of my last point here. You were harshly limited by your circumstances and that made the game so much more enjoyable.
>>
>>834808
>dude this game would be so much better if like the ai did everything for you
>>
>>834808
>Wdym? Theyve made war more tied to peace-time mechanics (diplomacy, economy, trade, etc) than it ever has been in a PDX gsg
Having shallow war in a diplomacy focused game is as bad as having shallow diplomacy in a war focused game, bad war makes diplomacy feel bad and bad diplomacy makes war feel bad. Why do you have to sacrifice one thing for another? It's just fucking dumb
>Is it? 1815-1914 was relatively peaceful. War was generally avoided (but threatened often enough).
What the flying fuck are you talking about? This is literally the golden age of nationalism and inperialism, alliances were getting more complex but skirmishes, conquests, and prolonged wars were happening all over the place. War is what created the british empire and what birthed germany
>If war is half the game then their stated design philosophy has failed
It's a retarded design philosophy. This is like making a shit house that falls over with a gust of wind and saying it's okay because your intent was to make a house with the worst foundations possible
> This system is also better for modelling how wars actually happened inthe period.
But the game isn't trying to accurately depict economics or politics or diplomacy. In fact it's a pure power fantasy in those areas, to the point of being historically inaccurate. And once again, why does war have to be thrown aside? Why does anything have to be thrown aside? What's the point of all that economics and diplomacy if the AI missues your armies? What's the point of conquering everything if you never actually do anything with it? Why aren't you making an actually good game instead of trying to minmax it?
>Fleshing out and making realistic legislation is a tall order and, with this pretty simple pop system, not worth doing.
So the sacrifice for a shallow war system was a shallow legislation system? When will you stop making excuses and accept that the game has fundamental problems with it's systems?
>>
>>834840
>Why do you have to sacrifice one thing for another? It's just fucking dumb
For DLC down the line. Of the two, I'd rather have a more fleshed out diplomacy system, it's more interesting than sieging provinces 5000 times every campaign like with every single other fucking grand strategy game.

>What the flying fuck are you talking about?
Historical consensus. Revolutions and coups are more important to model than wars in this period (at least in Europe, which is implicitly always their focus), but we don't know how those are gonna work yet.

>It's a retarded design philosophy.
How though? The design pillars they've stated all seem pretty good. 'War is a continuation of diplomacy, war is costly, war is strategic, preparation is key, navies matter.' Having a doomstack ready to march into neighbouring countries to stackwipe and siege is really not that exciting.

>But the game isn't trying to accurately depict economics or politics or diplomacy.
It is much more so than in any other game they've done. I can think of plenty of ways they could do it better, don't get me wrong.

>And once again, why does war have to be thrown aside?
PDX can only ship a game with about 3-4 mechanics at release and add the rest with time. To restate, I'm more interested in not having another permanent military expansion game if there is to be a new grand strat game. I just played their latest, I:R, and it plays identically to EU4.

>When will you stop making excuses and accept that the game has fundamental problems with it's systems?
You've read something into my points that I haven't been saying. I just think their decisions are overhated on this board.
>>
>>834858
>>834840
Could you two fuck off back to pleddit where posting in the manner you are posting is desired.
>>
>>834867
have you ever been to reddit? they don't actually disagree or act rudely there, it could lose you karma (think (You)s and you'll get it)

contentious line by line dissections is exactly what id expect from my anonymous japanese animes strategy board
>>
>>834892
I am from a time when single line insults was the way to go.
>>
>>834900
cope dilate seethe
>>
>>834901
there we go
>>
>>834742
In theory its a good change but HOI4's naval aspect is probably a good indicator of what the results will be in practice. AI won't be able to do it and humans in multiplayer will follow a barely understood braindead meta that only works against itself.
>>
ITT
Bitches get to cry about not being big boy General anymore
Bitches will buy it anyway just to cry moar, lol/
>>
The idea that warfare is not important in a victoria game is utterly retarded. It should be one of the most important systems in the game as it was the most important element of a state's power.
>>
>>833943
As a general note this appears to be a really bad system, since it would fail completely to represent something like the Napoleonic wars or the Franco-Prussian war.
In addition to that I have two questions.
1. Why is the game so full of micro, to the point of controlling INDIVIDUAL BUILDINGS, yet warfare was felt like something which needed to be hyper-abstracted?
2. Why is there so little systemism? So instead of having the number of troops a general leads create political modifyers, they're making it so that the general modifies politics according to some rank he has, and that said rank determines how many troops he can command. Why is the rank mechanic required, when systemism would make the gameplay simpler, and allow for more incrimental effects?

Also, I have to ask, does anyone know what is the actual war mechanic like? Does the fron move along as a single line, or can there be "snakes" of advancement?
Truth to be told, I knew this game was going to be Victorian era Stellaris from the start.
>>
>>834412
>economy is fundamentally flawed due to being swedish
You can't just say that without elaborating.
>>
>>834454
Is there any reason why the algorithm for moving units to a frontline is so bad?
>>
>>834926
Any PDX fan knows you buy the game for easy access to the mods that actually make it playable and pirate every DLC
>>
>>834471
>It isn't like there is an AI commander who I cant control but whose exploits I can follow, that would be cool.
As far as I can tell from the DD, battles occur generally like they used to within provinces and General's traits are intended to weight how they attack / defend. And there's an emphasis on generals as characters.
So following the exploits of a general likely is the point.
>>
>>834795
EU4 and Goi4 come to mind, you can make up for significant disadvantages with good micro.
>>
>>834926
Obvious bait, but
>Bitches will buy it anyway just to cry moar, lol/
absolutely true.
>>
>>833943
>reddit
>>
>>834282
>especially in the Victorian era where none would be leading the charge in battle.

paradrones saying the excuse of muh historical accuracy when their games are pure althis wankfest
>>
>>835256
>battles occur generally like they used to within provinces
They didn't really show this at all.
>>
>>834320
what sort of game is it? do you recommend?
>>
>>835450
>They didn't really show this at all.
True, they showed very little. It is mentioned though, I suppose there is a difference in that multiple provinces could be won in a single battle.
>All this leads us to Battles. Advancing Generals will eventually gather enough troops to launch an attack into one of the enemy-controlled provinces along the Front, which will be intercepted by defending troops and possibly an enemy General. In short, a battle then takes place over some number of days until one force has taken enough casualties and morale damage to retreat. We will go over in more detail how battles play out in a future diary, but suffice to say for now that a bunch of Battalions go in along with a number of different combat-related stats and conditions, some of them related to the General and their troops, others due to conditions like province terrain and chance. If the advancing side wins, they capture a number of provinces depending on how large their win was, what sort of technology they use, how dispersed or concentrated the enemy forces are across the region, and so on. If the defending side wins, they repel the advancers and will likely be able to launch their counter-attack at a nice advantage.
>>
>>833943
I won't read dev diaries no more, somebody explain to me what the new warfare system is. Is it like in Imperator where a disloyal general can rebel and people are upsed?
>>
>>835495
You don't control army stacks anymore. When you get into a diplomatic spat a front is generated from every province on both sides of the border, if there's multiple places with a border then multiple fronts are generated.
You can deploy generals to a front, and order them to just hold their ground or attack.
That's all you really get to do in relation to the front directly.

So basically no more stack micro.
>>
>>835496
Oh and as an addendum yes, generals are characters who provide the political group they're aligned with power, removing a general upsets that group, and if that group rebels the general will rebel with them.
>>
>>835496
That is great, but I can see how it makes EU4 minmaxers seethe.
In every game, PDX makes the player omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. Which isn't particularly fun, and tends to make their game with just glofiried Risk. By depriving military micro, they are making their games more historical and give more focus to statecraft.
>>
>>835504
Statecraft as a full and complete alternative to hands on war requires an AI intelligent enough to engage in it, which not one paradox game has even begun to display.
>>
>>835684
In every Paradox game, you can cheese AI because AI can't into the military. But by forcing AI to manage your wars for you, you are on the same footing.
>>
>>834282
Fagot this isn't crusader kings. You are not simply the head of state.
>>
>>835498
>removing a general upsets that group, and if that group rebels the general will rebel with them.
This is the part that pisses me off the most. Generals should only have influence if you've been negligent enough to let them get that way. It was very common to rotate out generals if they underperform in this period, it's not antiquity and ut's fucking obvious they just copy pasted this mechanic from imperator
>>
>>835695
>In every Paradox game, you can cheese AI because AI can't into the military
yeah this is what people are mad about, being able to cheese AI is a prime feature not a bug for them
>>
>>834808
>1815-1914 was relatively peaceful.
No it fucking wasn't.
I just counted a list of military conflicts that were started in that time period.
It's around 730, over seven per year.
War is an integral part of the time period.
>>
>>835837
How many of them were just colonial squabbles?
>>
>>835833
it is like bragging for defeating a retard on chess
>>
File: 748.png (193 KB, 500x540)
193 KB
193 KB PNG
>>835737
What the fuck are you talking about
>>
>>835833
The AI obviously won't be able to understand the economy either.
>>
>>835882
it could be better in new economy because in new system pc can clearly see what is profitable and what is not
i wouldn't be surprised that it would be better than a human in finding optimal factories and building them than a human, especially in lategame.
>>
>>835837
In terms of great power conflicts, it was incredibly peaceful. During the time period you had only one war that involved multiple great powers (Crimea) and a handful of 1v1 wars like the Italian War of Independence and the Franco-Prussian War.
Compare that to 1700-1815:
Queen Anne's War / War of the Spanish Succession
Great Northern War
Ottoman-Venetian War
War of the Quadruple Alliance
Anglo-Spanish War
War of the Polish Succession
Russo-Turkish War
War of the Austrian Succession
First Silesian War
Seven Years War
2nd Russo-Turkish War
American War of Independence
War of the Bavarian Succession
Austro-Turkish War
3rd Russo-Turkish War
Russo-Swedish War
Seven coalition wars against Revolutionary France
>>
>>835257
How the fuck does micro help in EU4 when combat is literally "lol bigger stack wins"
>>
>>835938
Its not in multiplayer. Doomstacks are a product of bad AI, which more AI will not fix.
>>
>>835894
To be fair, many of these were almost 1v1 of great power, just with a bunch of tiny states/proto-states orbiting.

The biggest problem is that 1815-1914 was THE period for asymetric colonial warfare, with large swathes of land taken with a few thousands men and 3 gunboats, and there is no way it's represented through their frontline mechanism.
>>
>>835458
It's a VN dressed up as a political strategy game based on a alt-history post-ww2 fantasy turkey. If you're familiar with turkey post 1940s then you'll recognise a lot of the events and decisions.
To be fair to the game, it isn't just turkroach history and it manages to be pretty kino. Fun time overall, worth playing just to remind yourself of how much potential for fun complex political games can have.
>>
>>835949
Yeah a lot of 18th century wars were 1v1 (and there's a couple on there that really only involve one GP like the Silesian War) but a lot were also super long. Take England for example, of those 115 years they spent about sixty at war with one or more major powers.
I agree with you about the colonial expedition problem, though.
>>
>>835949
>large swathes of land taken with a few thousands men and 3 gunboats
ugh... born too late
>>
>>835951
tried the game a few montasje ago and tried to rewrite the constitution, and at the voting Soll came in and fucked it up after i had played it for several hours. quit and havent played it since
>>
>>836030
months*
>>
>you don't get it it's an economic simulator, ok?! The devs have put their focus on making the best experience and warfare is secondary
>What do you mean you want to do the most basic economic act of storing goods that you have in surplus for later use? There's not enough resources to implement such a complicated feature!
>>
>>834307
calling movement lock baiting and divvying up reinforcement/carpet siege stacks "gookclicking" when it's less than 60 actions per minute is a really funny cope
>>
>>835504
Why do fags do this?
> Oh I don't know what the controversy is someone tell me
> *Get told*
> Proceed to make assertions and opinions that for some reason match those of fully informed people 1:1 for whatever side was picked.
What's the point of dressing up your opinion like you're a new bystander. Just state your opinion with confidence.
>>
>>835894
Why 1700 and not 1715. Also, stop repeating this bullshit claim of peace that you keep dodging the people who've refuted you.
You have in the same period using the metrics of the wars you cited:
Greek War of Independence
The Pastry War
The Egyptian-Turkish Wars
Mexican–American War
First and Second Wars of Italian independence
The Crimean War as you said
The American Civil War
Napoleon III's Mexico "Expedition"
Second Schleswig War
The Brother's War and the Third Italian War of Independence
The Franco-Prussian War
Russo-Turkish War (1877–78)
Spanish–American War
Russo-Japanese War
The Two Balkan Wars
This list leaving out things like the Opium Wars or the Paraguayan wars as I wouldn't regard them as central to the great powers even though they were immense conflicts in their own rights. The main point you could have is that there are fewer multi-party wars and even then that's for 7 out of your 15 major wars and the point of you bringing up multi-sidedness was to present these wars as bigger in scale which is definitely not true as many of them are literally called cabinet wars on that list for a reason.
>>
>>835893
This, programming a competent AI for an economy simulation should be way easier than programming a competent AI for paradox's old style of warfare.
They might still not accomplish it, but it is way easier.
>>
>>836040
In fairness I can see why a system with concrete stockpiles would conflict with multi-threading.
You either lock the stockpile on each transaction (lose most performance benefits), or don’t and accept that multiple different pops could buy the last item from a stockpile simultaneously, creating phantom goods with no cost.
Their solution at least applies a ramping cost to phantom goods
>>
>>835938
I agree with >>835944 generally, but you very much can out micro a big AI stack.
If the AI has say 40k troops in one stack and you have only 20-30k, you can split your forces, mass siege, avoid his troops etc. If the enemy, AI or player, splits it's troops to try and deal with you then with good micro you can regroup and strike at one of his smaller splits and where them down.
The AI loves to split its troops up, getting better at micro will let you win against much larger armies.
If you're curious to see it I'd suggest maybe looking at a florryworry video like
https://youtu.be/AMkGpmobVRw

A random micro tidbit of the top of my head you can do in EU4, or you could at one point I haven't played in years, is revoke land from an institution to spawn rebels in a province that an enemy army is locked into moving to. Or provoking rebels into the same.
>>
>>834307
Somebody's slow brain can't handle reinforce memeing and movement lock, calls it "gookclick micro", many such cases! Sad!
>>
>>835841
irrelevant
>>
>>836073
With controllable speed it could be anywhere from like 1 action per minute to 400.
Still very gookclicky.
>>
>>836666
checked and based
>>
>>836668
Stop using that word. If everything is gookclick, nothing is.
>>
>>836672
Gookclick makes people more upset so I like it, but I could say micro heavy gameplay.
Or gameplay with micro being capable of making a significant impact on the resolution of battles, or where minor micro of forces has a high possible ceiling of effectiveness rather than a low ceiling of effectiveness.

But fundamentally arguing over the word gookclick is pointless, the point is there are actually some people who wish that micro wasn't such a major portion of warfare. The speed required for that micro is irrelevant.
>>
>WAAAAH WAAAAAH I WANT TO PLAY THE GAME, NOT WATCH THE AI TAKE OVER 1/3 OF THE GAME FROM ME

Boo hoo, chuds

This is the future of strategy gaming and you are going to like it. Most people don't have the time to learn how to build and control a military, but these people are just as valid strategy game players as you losers, if not more valid.

There is NO reason to deny them the right to built an utopia in Victoria 3 just because we don't understand how to play the game, okay? I think it is great that PDX is allowing people to map paint with no effort without having to turn on cheats, not everybody can spend the over 10 hours you losers spend on games montly, that doesn't make them less of a gamer.

It is also great that PDX is clearly going to release this game on console and the UI reflects this, no more having information clearly displayed on screen, please hide it under 10 button presses on menus with huge buttons so it easy to navigate with a controler, not everyone can buy a computer chair that holds their weight, I want to play games on my sofa confortably and being denied that is peak fatphobia.

Hopefully they will show the trans POPs soon, I can barely wait!
>>
>>834787
what the white woman doin?
>>
>>834282
>Taking away direct control of armies from monarchs and other heads of state is a great idea, especially in the Victorian era where none would be leading the charge in battle.
1. You could make the same argument for literally any Paradox game as no head of state has ever been in total control of their units, especially in a time before telegraphs, railways and what not when you had to travel by horse or sail to relay orders to your subordinates thousands of miles away which often took months.
2. You aren't playing as the head of state, you are playing as the country which is why you don't get game over when the king gets toppled by bolsheviks.
>>
>>833943
They're right, though. Vic 3 is obviously going to suck, but for unrelated reasons.
>>
>>836882
Your forgot ageism. That's right! Being discriminated against for one's age. Thanks to Paradox 6 year olds are now going to be able to play awesome GRAND STRATEGY GAME, win every time and be awesome leader and stuff like that. Hoi4 was the first step in the right direction when they lowered the playing age down to 10 years old, Victoria 3 goes a step further. I am hoping that Paradox will continue to reduce discrimination by making EU5 playable by the family dog.
>>
>>836655
Stellaris is still unplayable due to a lobotimized AI to this day.
>>
>>836882
>consoles

Don't you guys have phones?
>>
>>837134
stellaris has problems with ai because:
0) it has stockpiles and tries to simulate a flow of processing goods: minerals -> alloys and consumer goods
1) it has multiple stockpiles with countless amount of sources, modifiers and etc. to figure out
2) stockpiles are global, so every empire needs to solve optimization problem for whole empire that could possibly have tens of colonized planets
3) there are a lot of strict limits on planets, which ai needs to adjust to

victoria 3 potentially will have much less problems with ai:
1)no stockpiles at all
2)flow of goods represented with "cash": factories buy input and sell output to some "shadow brokers" of your market, all bottlenecks, overproduction and undersupply are heavily abstracted.
3)no limits on factories/buildings in states
4)all "economy" happens at factory level, you don't need to handle any resource except budget.

imagine if in stellaris:
would be only energy credits
mines instead of minerals, produce corresponding to market price amount of energy credits
alloy factory instead of consuming minerals, produce ("price of alloy" - "price of minerals") credits
market updates price corresponding to total amount of mines/alloy factories/etc and has some easy formula for price, that allows you to see how much credits you will lose/get immediately
remove limitations on districts/buildings
>>
>>837184
>if only they had listened to me!
>>
>>837190
anon, have you missed a post? i haven't suggested anything, was just stating facts and made analogy how would vic3 economy look in stellaris.
>>
>>836121
Those are all fucking non-wars you historically illiterate piece of shit. Wow we need huge gameplay mechanic investments to simulate THE SPANISH AMERICAN WAR where like 20 people died. Shut the fuck up. 19th century is literally the most peaceful century in recorded history, do you understand that? You're making a garbage argument that only a complete fucking retard could make out of total ignorance.
>>
>>836911
Nigger are you blind? That's an elephant. And the human is some sea monkey.
>>
They genuinely want a mobile risk game with pops. It’s not going to be anything like Vicky 2
>>
>>836121
Really stretching the definition of great power vs. great power war with that list. In addition, the Napoleonic Wars were the most destructive in history to that point, with at least 3 million casualties, military and civilian, which was the big reason for the relative peace.
>>
I think it goes into the category "good idea, hard to implement". I've been experimenting with this idea before, and it's always had some promise. But if it was simple to do correctly it would have been done already. I wish the folks at paradox luck. I hope they put on a jolly good show.
>>
>>837375
>hopes Paradox is competent
We're doomed, aren't we?
>>
>>837305
>>837349
And the list I was actually replying to with entries such as the Anglo-Spanish War, Ottoman-Venetian War, War of the Bavarian Succession and Russo-Swedish War aren't? Never mind some of the wars on that are the same war just listed twice like the War of Austrian Succession and the First Silesian War. Instead of arguing against my perceived strawman of an argument how about you follow the chain and read through that to get what people are saying.
>>
>>837349
And to reply to you in particular as you were far more put together and courteous the Napoleonic conflict was a just a great power vs great power war it was a great power conflict. Involving multiple great powers, spanning large parts of their involved realms and in general since the 1600s occurring every 50-ish years. What *was* notable about 1800 wasn't the lack of wars but the missing mid-century great-power conflict. That's what makes the era of peace relatively peaceful but as my list shows with the criteria established in the list above me, it was by no means truly a peaceful century.
Anyway, the Napoleonic Wars were absolutely not the most destructive up to that point the Thirty Years War over a similar time period has it beat handily and the Seven Years War despite being stuffed into the nominative seven years still comes over a million. Never mind all the wars in ping pong ching chong China where gorillions died.
>>
>>837389
>>837349
*the Napoleonic wars weren't just a great power vs great power war they were a great power conflict.
* What *was* notable about the 1800s.
God, I really should start spellchecking my posts better.
>>
>wtf how can you say it will be bad they haven't even released a dev diary about it give it a chance!
>wtf how can you say it will be bad they only released one dev diary about it we don't have all the info give it a chance!
>wtf how can you say it will be bad after looking at the dev diaries it's still too early it could be completely different give it a chance!
>wtf how can you say it will be bad there's still a few months left before release and they've shown zero signs of fixing anything but they could do a 180 we don't have enough info give it a chance!
>o-oh it was exactly like you said it would be? well I LIKE it plus they'll probably fix it with DLC get it a chance!
It's all so fucking tiresome bros
>>
>>837389
Fair enough. I think we've been hung up on a definition of "relatively peaceful" this entire time. I can agree that there was plenty of conflict but what was missing like you said is the giant multi-continent struggles like the Seven Years War etc.
That said, the limited and small-scale wars that are all over the time period are a very good reason to change the eternal paradox model of "all war is total war."
>>
>>837402
Oh no, I am actually fully on board with the movement away from stacks, they could've done it much better but the ideal behind it I agree with. However in regards to the 19th century even if there was a great power conflict there'd be one singular extra one somewhere in the 1860s or 1870s. That's "all" it would take to make the 19th century "normal". I do agree though that all this does is move the hang up on where "relatively peaceful" lies in relation to the other conflicts though.
>>
Any words on how allies will work in this new system? If your ally doesn't have a border to the enemy for their own front will you get "[Ally] sent X troops to help front Y" popups?
>>
>>836121
>The Pastry War
I googled this because it sounds funny, and holy shit it's a total non-event. Less than three hundred people got killed, this shit is supposed to be a war? Might as well make a grand strategy about gang wars in Chicago. Come to think of it, that'd be pretty cool

>>837344
>risk game with pops
Bro, I think this anon cracked the code. FR I see them doing this
>>
>>837424
>The Pastry War
Yeah, that's a mistake addition. For some I misremembered it in the context of the other French expeditions to Mexico. Mea culpa.
>>
>>837424
If you want a decent war over retarded reasons look up the War of the Bucket.
>>
File: mea culpa.jpg (4 KB, 300x169)
4 KB
4 KB JPG
>>837427
>Mea culpa
Nah, it's cool bro
>>
>>833943
They learnt all the worst lessons from HOI4. I just wanna command my frontier forces expanding the Empire for Queen and Country.
>>
>>836073
>60 actions per minute
one per second
fuck that I don't play games to work
>>
>>837089
Paradox games already cater to 12 year olds with ADD.
>>
>>837412
I can confirm I have participated and watched many people start giant conflicts in the mid 18th century over really dumb crises.
>>
>>837377
>Anglo-Spanish War
Checked but there's a better reason to exclude the Anglo-Spanish war, it's practically part of the Napoleonic wars.
>>
>>837413
Anyone nation can deploy a general to a front.
So your allies will deploy their generals to your front if they wish. Assumedly there's some sort of travel process involved, for any general being deployed to a front, but I don't remember that being mentioned.
>>
>>837498
I think they meant this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Spanish_War_(1727%E2%80%931729)
>>
>>837517
Didn't even know about that one.
Man, there's a few too many Anglo-Spanish wars.
>>
>>833943
Victoria is a game about diplomacy and politics. If you want to unrealistically micro your generals and conquer the world as Vaginajar go play EU4.
>>
File: 1626013302500.jpg (218 KB, 675x1000)
218 KB
218 KB JPG
>>833943
Have they even said anything about logistics and how it will affect gameplay apart from building barracks?
>>
>>837543
Nope the only comment they've made is that units are supplied from their home barracks, no matter where they are. So if you build regiments in Edinburgh and ship them to South Africa, they'll still get supplies from Edinburgh. What that means they haven't gone into detail on.
>>
>>837555
Doesn't that encourage settling [your primary culture] soldiers in foreign lands so they can be supplied locally? Based.
>>
File: samefag.png (1016 B, 117x29)
1016 B
1016 B PNG
you just know
>>
>>837399
You seem like a particularly stupid case. People rarely try to disprove the idea that the game might be bad or how likely it is to be bad. They fight against your retarded attitude. If you're so sure that it's going to fail, don't get that emotionally invested you dumbass. But let's see the exact issue here with an example. People went fucking apeshit about the "simplification" of StarCraft 2, and turns out it's some of the most gookclicky shit out there. Turns out they just were fucking wrong. And that's the part you ignore. You're significantly underplaying the times that people like you were just flat out wrong.
>>
>>836911
>thinks that's white
spotted the flip
>>
>>837804
In general, people will post, be replied to and then reply to that reply so on average one poster will have two posts in a thread. So the numbers aren't that off.
>>
>>837838
3/10
>>
>>837089
I'm a zoo keeper and volunteer to babysit a monkey now and then as part of one of our programmes.
One night I was playing HoI IV with him besides me and started make him pick what to do now and then. Eventually I just made him pick every decision and I shit you not, he was actually beating the AI on medium.
>>
>>834307
>a more hands off warfare
Well congrats now they removed warfare completely and replaced it with a Risk table.
>>
>>837986
Good.
>>
>>837988
At least you admit you have garbage taste.
>>
>>837990
Yes.
>>
>>837804
That's actually better than usual, your average thread has 3 posts to an IP.
>>
File: IMG_20211117_180021.jpg (98 KB, 1124x470)
98 KB
98 KB JPG
>>833943
The theories are getting out of hand
>>
File: november 17 teaser.jpg (109 KB, 950x484)
109 KB
109 KB JPG
New Wednesday teaser from wiz
>>
>>838014
Is Woodstock a commie?
>>
>>838019
oh my fucking god it's the hoi4 supply system
>>
>>838019
theres gonna be land convoys r-right bros?
>>
>>838019
I wanted to make a mod for Vic 3 and now I think I should just stick with Vic 2 or Goy 4.
>>
>>838042
>>838041
>>838037

>>838019
Why do we hate this?
>>
>>838059
idk but the yorkshire - singapore supply route sounds hilarious
>>
File: Buffoon.jpg (45 KB, 736x546)
45 KB
45 KB JPG
>>838059
Because I have little to no faith in Paradox. And I don't think that they'll actually go far enough in the development of any of these systems and will instead half bake every idea they put forward. Just like they did with CK3.
I might as well just make my own vidya and it'd probably be of a better quality.
Which is quite obviously very sad.
>>
>>838019
Looks cool, but where are the stockpiles?
>>
I hope that good prices for every market will be visible in the ledger.
>>
>>833943
I'm not sure why you'd go to reddit to get paradrone coping when we have local cope on this very board. Interestingly you can see the differing levels of optimism and pessimism between the two sites. Reddit tries to convince people that it's a good change that will make the game more fun but /vst/ paradrones will celebrate the change simply because they know paradox isn't good enough to make an AI that can handle anything more complex, or will just imply that people who don't like the change can only win through cheap methods. Both however, will cry when argued against.
>>
>>838035
He has briefly commented on his disdain for Rhodesians and South African whites before, so probably.
>>
>>834259
This, unfortunately 4chan has become mostly reddit
>>
>>838035
Yes. He is also a frequent niggersayer though so I don't know what to think of him.
>>
File: dd23_5_1.png (153 KB, 895x109)
153 KB
153 KB PNG
>>838141
Right here anon
>>
>>835951
ok thanks i’ll check it out. I was told it was pseudo SA not turkey so thanks for mentioning that
>>
>>838260
Mana bros...
We won!
>>
File: 1591022811745.jpg (39 KB, 413x512)
39 KB
39 KB JPG
>>838096
>I might as well just make my own vidya and it'd probably be of a better quality.
Please try, and I hope it goes well because then we get better games.
But always remember the tale of Darth. It turns out making a game from scratch is a lot harder than filling in a few holes.
>>
>>838186
>You were born outside of the Netherlands/UK
>This makes you Satan
>>
>>834282
you are never the LEADER in a grand strategy game
you are the DUDE COMMANDING THE ARMIES
>>
>>837344
You, uh, have a hard time detecting sarcasm, huh?
>>
>>838014
Quickly rundown?
>>
>>838035
>Labour Theory of Value
>our
Gee I wonder.
>>
>>837981
Its a closely guarded secret, but if you play hoi4 multiplayer most of your opponents are in fact monkeys. Literally. Just like you have discovered for yourself, monkeys are quite capable of winning hoi4 against the AI. This is perhaps not surprising but then someone decided to test monkeys against humans in multiplayer. To their astonishment not only were monkeys capable of holding their own against hoi4 players but could also beat them on a regular basis. Paradox quickly caught onto this and decided that they could could make hoi4 look very popular by having a thriving multiplayer community which was actually comprised of mostly monkeys. More popularity means more sales. But there was one problem. The monkeys could not appear live on streams because then it would make Paradox, and the people who play hoi4, look ridiculous. So they simply lifted a huge amount of live stream video data and stored it. Whenever one of the monkeys starting playing hoi4 it would trigger a random video of a human instead, to give the impression it was a human player and not a monkey. This strategy has so far worked very well and accounts for much of hoi4 continuing popularity. It was cheap to run and cost Paradox only some bananas and someone to clean up the monkey shit, a cost that was more than offset by sales of hoi4's dlc to the humans players.

Now of course this sounds very clever, but it pales in brilliance to the plan that Paradox has for Victoria 3 multiplayer. You see, recent advances in the field of mind-machine interface has not yet reached the stage where it is possible to "wet wire" humans to a computer, but it is possible to do so with flies. Flies are much cheaper to feed than monkeys, they just need some shit, and can easily be trained to perform an adequate role of mimicking human-like behavior in Victoria 3. You might see where this heading. Yes. Now paradox will double down on its profits because they no longer have to pay people to clean up the monkey shit.
>>
File: chadja.png (243 KB, 680x709)
243 KB
243 KB PNG
>>838553
>>
>>838019
Reminds me of the colonial nodes from empire total war. Send x trade ships to get money.
>>
>>838019
Lmao.
>>838037
>oh my fucking god it's the hoi4 supply system
Even worse, it looks like EU4 trade nodes.
>>
>>839656
Yes and EU4 trade nodes were a better system than EU3 "plop COT everywhere" clusterfuck, MEIOU especially used them pretty well
>>
>>839716
>MEIOU especially used them pretty well
Gigau hates the current trade system. What are you on about.
>>
>>833943
the amount of sarcasm is painful
its like they can't speak their minds without hiding behind multiple levels of irony
>>
>>836661
Most processors have atomic compare-and-swap, so you shouldn't need locks. If your processor doesn't have atomic compare and swap, your performance will probably be bad anyway.

>>836655
Creating an encirclement is just a pathfinding problem. I think that it would be pretty simple to program the Vic2 or HoI4 AI to reliably create encirclements. The reason why this isn't done is because people don't like getting their clock cleaned by an AI that can handle micro all up and down a front far faster than they can. HoI4 gives the AI all the information it needs to reliably create encirclements (the position of enemy units, the probability a given engagement will end in a win, the travel time of enemy units, and the speed of your own units over the contested terrain).
>>
>>839913
>its like they can't speak their minds without hiding behind multiple levels of irony
They can't. Insulting Paradox honor gets you instabanned.
See this, for example, which is immediately removed by the mods there https://www.reddit.com/r/victoria3/comments/qrw7b9/incredible_leaked_warfare_video_from_discord/
>>
>>839716
>you can only trade in one direction
imagine actually believing this system is better
>>
>>839601
at last i truly see…
>>
>>840356
Yes, yes, its astonishing but true. But here is a pro tip. If you ever find yourself in a Vic3 multiplayer match and want to confirm you are actually playing against a human, just ask your opponent to use some fly spray in his room.
>>
>>834282
>You will not control your game and you will buy it
>>
>>834523
It's not even that they are incompetent or poor, they just don't have the will to see their project through. There is no damn competition, they could release a piece of shit, and people would either have to lap it up, or leave the GSG genre. It feels as if they just lack vision and have to remake their games from the ground up every time something goes wrong, just look at Stellaris and Imperator, every 3 updates, the game is completely different, there is no solid idea behind what they want to do
>>
>>845739
The competition are their older games, Paradox knows that in time they will make a product that is better than the previous games, it might take 4+ years but they'll do it.
>>
>>845746
They do make more popular games over time like hoi4 was to hoi4, eu4 was to eu3, ck3 was to ck2... There really is no end in sight for the casualization of the genre, new batches of fans are introduced every time there is a hiccup
>>
>>845758
hoi4 was to hoi3*
They just don't have to compete, they are like some former sports champion picking up alcholism and smoking, they can afford the vices at the level they are in
>>
CK3 isn't more casual than CK2, HOI4 after this upcoming DLC will be on the level of HOI3 if not more complex. EU4 was also more complex than EU3 and Vicky 3 will obviously be more complex than Vicky 2.
>>
shut up johan
>>
God I fucking hate PDX and 4niggers. People would shitpost for days about how frontlines in hoi4 were a crime against humanity for automating combat and you just had to draw an arrow and win. Then they do this shit in vik3 and people are happy they removed war?
People are just jumping on one side or the other and are fucking lying niggers. You don't have a single thought in your retarded fucking head. Incredible. It is utterly incredible that people would spout such bullshit.
I am fucking done with all of you, I know for a fact you are lying cunts becuase if you had a single shread of dignity your complaints would be consistent across games.
>>
>>845784
The problem with the frontline system in HOI4 is that it allows micro, they should have gone no-micro or all micro.
>>
>>845785
The hoi4 system is great, the only problem is the divisions are shitty.
Want to line your boys up against an enemy? It does that, want to push forward or defend or push forward slowly or push forward whenever you get the chance? The game does all of that. Want to change where the AI is moving a unit because there is an oppitunity you can take advantage of that you spotted? You can do that. It is not perfect and could use some extra features like having a system where you can have reserves behind the frontline moved automatically and things like that but it is the best system for modern conflicts we have seen yet.
The hoi4 frontline system should have been an 1880s tech unlock and before then you should have been forced to micro stacks like imperator rome. Keep the automation for retarded people too.
>>
>>845794
Thank god you don't work for Paradox, the HOI4 system is so flawed i'm surprised someone even thought of it at all, the automation was obviously for newbs but the issue is that the game pushes you to use it because of the bonuses that you get, to play optimally you have to both micro and use those fucking frontlines which is both confusing and even increases the amount of micro required.
They did the right thing by just going with a frontline system and don't bother with the clickety-click bullshit that adds nothing to the game.
>>
>>845823
I love this engaging gameplay of pressing a single button and then waiting.
>>
>>845826
I love the engaging gameplay of clicking 1000 times instead of 2 to do the same exact thing
>>
>>833943
>If you don't believe me go on there yourself
How about you just stay over there you fucking redditors
>>
>>845823
If I worked at Paradox I would make sure the lazy cunt's did some fucking work rather then pissing about.
>>
>>845758
More popular means more casualized and attracting a wider audience. Their core gameplay has rotted out beneath them
>>
>>845851
NOOOOOOOOOO NOT MY SLIDERS
>muh casualization
>>
>>845853
Imagine getting filtered grand strategy lmao
>>
>>845851
Yep, really we just need a studio willing to compete with them, right now it's a stranglehold
>>
A game for everyone must by nessessity have the consistency of water. I don't want my games to appeal to a wide audience, I want my game to have a dedicated core who enjoy that game for what it is and not for what some green hair psychotic corpo thinks will bring in the most sheckels.
I don't want a game for everyone I want a game for me.
>>
>>845867
Then make your own game
>>
>>845870
No, end yourself you faggot shill. I will instead use social pressure against devs until they start crying and flee the internet in shame. I have gotten three game devs to quit the industry just by pointing out how dogshit they are. I am doing my part right here.
>>
>>845874
You don't even know what you are bitching about, just nonsense.
>>
>>845876
Fuck off Wiz. Fucking pedo shill.
>>
>>845874
Almost certainly fake but based either way.
>>
>>845823
I want to work for Paradox they have a wonderful rape culture
>>
>>845992
Nah it's all fucking lies, I have not been raped once. I even come in pre lubed.
>>
>>845995
maybe you're just ugly and shrill
>>
>>846004
Its equal opportunity employment bigot. Its 2021, you can't just rape all the attractive people anymore.
>>
>>846011
stop kinkshaming me, my body my choice
>>
>>845874
Can confirm what this Anon is saying. I was standing outside a building used by a game developers when the Anon just glared it in a very menacing way. The building collapsed. Coincidence? I think not. Of course the fanbois tried to cover this up by spouting all sorts of bullshit about the company having moved office years ago and the building being scheduled for demolition. This is typical of the sort of arsetrickery they get up to.
>>
>>846078
What the fuck are you talking about? You never saw shit, cunt. You get me?
>>
>>833943
The second one infuriate s the fuck out of me...
If you don't want to control your own nations aspects (i.e. military) then why are are you playing video games when you could be watching a documentary???
>>
>>846129
Look, the game is up, Batman. There is no more concealing your power level anymore. You may as well be honest about it. Yes. I saw you make those two Pdx developers cry. I saw you as you followed them home and used your telekinetic powers to make them have gay anal sex, on a trampoline, while filming each other. I suppose you are going to come up with some sort of excuse about how that's just what they do on a normal day, and you were just perving on them. But stop and think for a moment. Was it really necessary for you to secretly mix in some cayenne pepper in with their lube? Do you have any idea how much pain and suffering you have caused.?
>>
>>846143
Because Paradox games excel at being management games, not wargames. The sooner you /gsg/ fucktards realize this the better.
>>
>>846333
>if you don't want warfare to suck you're /gsg/!
Nigger what?
>>
>>846333
The problem is the management aspect is dumbed down as well.
>>
File: 51++s+7wZUL._AC_.jpg (44 KB, 353x500)
44 KB
44 KB JPG
The problem with Paradox in 2021 is that they struck gold with CK3's release. It got so much exposure thanks to all the non-map gamers picking up the game and making videos and streams about it. However, CK3 remained a shell of a game, so player numbers plummeted shortly after the release. It was their biggest release ever but they couldn't keep the normies playing, and now it has fewer concurrent players than even EU4, which still has good mods and an active MP scene, and HOI4, which has an even bigger MP community.

CK3 is a bad game, and you'll see people cope about how great it is, despite most of them not even playing it since August or September. They're all "waiting for the DLC". The DLC is going to be shit and all of them are going to cope about it, just watch them. Paradox is now trying to turn CK3 into pic related, to try and gain back the normie players that made their release blow up, but this will fail, because CK3 will remain a shell of a game.

They are going for the same approach with Vic3, trying to gain a "wider audience", which seems to be succeeding on the surface, since the people who are most excited about the game are not people who have played Vic2 extensively, it's CK3 and HOI4 players who have barely touched Vic2, if at all. However, the Victorian era doesn't have the same appeal as funny medieval incest schemes to normal people who don't get excited about charts changing colour and lines going up and down. Paradox think they can replicate CK3's launch.

Here's my prediction. Vic3 will have a moderately large launch, but not nearly as big as CK3 as the premise won't grab the attention of non-map gamers nearly as much. The game will be trash, and most players will drop it after a month and "wait for the DLC" just like they are for CK3 right now, and they will cope to no end about how the game is better than Vic2 because it has "more potential" while not touching it for months on end.
>>
>>846350
No they aren't, compare Victoria 3 dev diaries to what Vicky 2 offers and you'll see that's a lie.
>>846355
CK3 was already redeemed by mods not long after launch, sure it still needs DLCs to surpass CK2 100%.
>>
>>846360
Which mods? Sure the game is super moddable which is a point in its favour, and Vic3 probably will be too, but are there really any truly great mods out for CK3?
>inb4 Godherja
hello poonzer
>>
>>846361
Sinews of War and The Fallen Eagle, there are other mods that are good but CK2 already had something similiar to those so i'm not mentioning them.
>>
>>833943
I got banned from the Vicky 3 discord because my Pfp was Richard Nixon. They are the the worst fucking weirdos with rules.

I asked them “this is my pfp across discord, you want me to change based on this one server?” Yes they said, and banned me
>>
>>
>>846355
Probably this. I'm on a mod team for CK3 and I've not even seriously played the game since January. I only ever load it up to mod it.
>>846365
TFE's best draw is its assets. The actual research put into its 395 start date is atrocious I recommend waiting for WTWSMS. If you're still drawn in my cloaks and hats I don't know what to tell you. SoW is fairly good but still obviously unfinished and they're heavily held back by waiting for everyone else in their alt-HIP project being slow as shit. Every other mod has better more complete Ck2 versions or isn't out yet.
>>846581
LMAO. Why did Nixon trigger them? Is it just no politics? If so do they mind JFK?
>>
>>837428
Or this one
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_War_(1859)
>>
>>845784
>4chan is one person
lmao
>>
>>846666
>WTWSMS
>good research
Try The Winter King senpai
>>
>>846730
The Winter King is working from a "fantasy scenario" but yeah out of the three it's the deepest in the research it does. Though they said they're not porting from CK2 I think?
>>
>>846355
Almost every video game has a large boom, then a drop off and slow reduction until it gains traction.
CK3 is currently doing fine by the standards of most other Paradox games, if a little behind with it's first DLC. It's got around the players CK2 did before it's release.
>>
>>846742
>CK3 is currently doing fine by the standards of most other Paradox games
Addeundum to make this clearer, all the other Paradox games started small and rose up. Partially this is because of a rise in the overall playerbase in recent years, but also those games have time to be refined and improved by expansions, and gain and build their modding and multiplayer communities.
>>
>>846737
>There is one more CK2 patch in the works, but we're sort of orienting towards CK3 at this point. We're not working on the 410 start date and it's unlikely that we will anytime soon.
>>
>>846751
Ah great then
>>
How can you rapresent braindead loser armchair general in a micro-heavy system? You cant, this Is the best solution imo a Civic gsg Is a Wind of fresh air from the ususal wargames
>>
>>846729
>Outs himself as a flip flopping faggot.
>>
>>846828
it was never micro-heavy. Did you even play Vic2?
I think Vic3 could use a new war system but it should still be challenging. I would have liked something that can represent dynamic and static war for example. But hoi4s frontline system was shit and thats what they're aiming for it seems
>>
Microniggers can get fucked.
>>
>>847348
> it was never micro-heavy.

> organization of naval invasion
> any late game war in any pdx game
> whack-a-mole on seas and land until you can fill the whole front
yeah, sure
>>
I want time mana.
>>
File: 1629134167265.jpg (385 KB, 755x942)
385 KB
385 KB JPG
>>833943
why must paradox do this to us
>>
How am I supposed to play the game without top tier waifus? I can't masturbate to AI fighting itself
>>
>>847886
i had lost hope
we still have no proper 2d portraits for ck3 or imperator, 3d portraits are truly the worst idea they had.
>>
im so happy this game is shaping up to be a dumpster fire. get fucked chuds/incels/autists
>>
You will play as women generals. You will Build Back Better.
>>
>>847959
>>847968
Samefag.
>>
All they literally have to do is use army templates like EU4 to remove a lot of the autistic micro.
>>
>>846666
If CK3 is so shallow then what was the biggest reason for nearly every ck2 modder to drop support and move to the new game then ? Mostly hype ?
>>
>>848866
Not that anon but if there's one thing current Paradox does well it's mod support, CK3 modding has vastly more potential than CK2 did and just look at the kinds of crazy shit people have done with HoI4.
>>
>>845828
I too prefer games where the only interaction is the I WIN button.
>>
>>846355
The best part is that when the normies are finally gone, all they'll be left with are pissed off victoria 2 players trolling them.
>>
File: 1701.png (3.58 MB, 1920x1080)
3.58 MB
3.58 MB PNG
victoria sisters we must fight bad reviews from incels, activate your twitter accounts
>>
>>848767
t. cope
>>
>>848866
Pretty much this >>848914
It's shit now and boring but I know it won't be forever and I know that the number of possibilities in CK3 vastly outstrip CK2 in terms of modding ergo it's best to get started early and grit your teeth through the shit. On outright dropping support for CK2, most teams delivered a final "complete" version before moving over especially as CK2 has been code complete for 2 years now so why not finish and move?
>>
>>849184
>victoria sisters
fuck you're bad cunt
Vicxens
you had one fucking job you stupid hole
one fucking job
>>
>>849184
God, they really captured the aspect of unfuckable harpies that feminists always have been. Love the absolute look of hatred from the negress on the far right
>>
File: 1614546821610.png (2.08 MB, 1419x997)
2.08 MB
2.08 MB PNG
>The goods, technologies, and in some cases Laws you have access to practically limit which military Production Methods you have available to you. These determine the composition of your army and navy and include both “upgrades” and “options”. As always, this list is not finalized but represents what is in the current build of the game only.
>Your Infantry Organization Production Methods govern the organization and doctrines of your army’s core fighting force. They consume mostly Small Arms and Ammunition and include Irregular, Line, Skirmish, Trench, and Squad Infantry. Offense, Defense, and Training Rate are the most commonly affected attributes.
>Artillery Support Production Methods consume expensive Artillery and Ammunition to boost the Offense, Morale Damage, Kill Rate, and Devastation attributes of the Battalions. Cannons, Mobile, Shrapnel, and Siege Artillery are represented.
>Your Battalions’ Mobility options affect their ability to get around and scout the terrain, impacting their ability to do damage during an Offense and capture larger amounts of territory at the conclusion of a won battle. Cavalry forces are the default, which can eventually be supplemented with Bicycle Messengers, and after the turn of the century Aerial Reconnaissance or even an Armored Division supplied by late-game War Machines Industries producing Aeroplanes and Tanks.
>Your standing army can unlock various Specialist Companies for Barracks to focus on. These include Machine Gunners, Infiltrators, Flamethrower Companies, and Chemical Weapon Specialists. These specialists consume various goods to inflict quite specific effects.
>Medical Aid determines what sort of battlefield medicine your troops have access to, from the default of Wound Dressing, through First Aid, to fully fledged Field Hospitals. These consume Fabric and Opium to treat the sick and wounded to minimize the casualties inflicted by attrition and combat alike.
So army doctrines are being represented after all.
>>
>>850297
>it's just a bunch of modifiers because wars are AT dicerolling
god fucking damn it
>>
>>849797
You type like a bitter incel.
>>
>>850373
Shut up chud
>>
>>850297
>Armies have a single unit type that you add modifiers (Irregular, Line, Skirmish, Trench, and Squad Infantry.) and buffs too in order to get better dice rolls in combat.
>Cav and arty are modifers added onto this unit.
Huh...
This sucks.
>>
>>850414
It does, but it sucks less than I was expecting after last week.
>>
File: layout.gif (3.31 MB, 480x360)
3.31 MB
3.31 MB GIF
>>850297
>Go to subreddit to witness the asslicking
>literally the most upbooted comment is "this is literally the first time in a Paradox game we've had lasting consequences for losing all our men in a war beyond dumb war exhaustion penalties"
>none of those niggers actually played Victoria 2
>>
>>850432
Are you suprised?
>>
>>850432
With POPs having dependents they're not wrong that this should mean war casualties have a bigger impact than they do in 2. I'm not going to check if they're actually saying that or saying what what you said they said because I'm not a tremendous faggot who looks at reddit.
>>
https://youtu.be/JeSDctVGMv0?t=3275
>>
>>850608
Oh look, it's shill-o-clock!
>>
>>850373
you type like an unfunny failure
>>
File: 18.jpg (772 KB, 1846x1846)
772 KB
772 KB JPG
>>836121
>The Pastry War
Wow, really?
>>
> In addition, conscripts are trained faster but are limited to infantry troops only.
The literal only thing I didn't want them to do.
>>
>>850767
No not really read ahead in the reply chain and see how someone pointed out that I mixed up that war. Everything else checks out though.
>>
File: jai3s0lkssx71.png (524 KB, 1024x768)
524 KB
524 KB PNG
>>850297
>>850315
>>
Reminder that detractors have no valid arguments
>>
>>850315
Explain how different troop types could be represented differently in a way that isn't "just a bunch of modifiers". Even in proper wargames like HoI3 a tank is still just infantry with +armour, +speed, etc. If you want to claim the Vicky 3 system is just modifiers you could say the same about basically anything.
>>
>>851354
i guess he mean a difference between having
2000 infantrymen
5 artillerymen
500 rifles
10000 small arms shells
10 artillery cannons
200 artillery shells
1 bunker
and calculating corresponding modifiers from it during battles

and having modifiers that are applied directly from barracks, like
2000 infantry
-50% damage
-30% defence
>>
>>850432
>none of those niggers actually played Victoria 2
As expected. These peoplea re the target audience.
>>
>>850297
Fo the love of God, could the UI be even larger? I really can't click the "First Aid" text line unless it takes at leat 1/4 of my screen.

Also, it is litrally this >>851199 ffs. What a time to be alive.
>>
>>851386
We can all agree that the UI is pretty bad but it won't be that large in the finished product, that's a mobile tier UI size.
>>
>>851388
>it won't be that large in the finished product
Any source on that?
>>
>>851389
Common sense, for non-mobile screens there is no reason for the buttons on the bottom to be that big especially compared to the tiny icons on the map.
>>
Per barracks equipment is based, we can give the niggers in our African colonies the worst equipment and no medical care and send them off to die en masse while we sit snugly in our homeland
>>
>>851392
So you admit that Vic3 is targeted at mobile device users?
>>
>>851436
I'm not admitting anything other than your obvious retardation
>>
File: oni_shiggy_diggy.png (232 KB, 1128x905)
232 KB
232 KB PNG
>>851392
>common sense
>Paradox
Why do something when you can have modders do it for you for free?
>>
>>851386
>Fo the love of God, could the UI be even larger?
All the buttons need to be big to make the console port easier. Same reason they have to keep the number of options limited.
>>
>>851490
What number of options? Please explain
>>
>>851493
Well you have the neutral stance, the defensive stance that reduce casualties by 5% and the agressive stance that increase damage by 5%

Choose wisely general
>>
>>851530
Before you could move or not move
>>
>>851536
The old system wasn't good either, but after spending a week's DD to hype this new system before they revealed it, I was hoping they might have a bit more to their new system than three buttons.
>>
Three buttons is too much micro. There should just be one button
>>
Sorry trannies, old system IS better. deciding where to position your forces is more strategic.
>>
>lose per province pop stats because they added a billion provinces
>provinces are useless because you don't actually control your armies
>>
>>851386
>>851490
>Fo the love of God, could the UI be even larger? I really can't click the "First Aid" text line unless it takes at leat 1/4 of my screen.
The screenshots are cropped to focus on the Barracks UI because that's what the dev diary is talking about, dumbfuck. It won't appear that large in game.
>>
>>834319
It's not only reddit people it's the consoomer identity of the whole liberal western population to construct your whole identity and purpose of life around your hobbies. I can't find it anymore but there was a study or a test where people should just finish the sentence of "I am a..." with their own words. Western consoomers finished it with typical bug men things like:
>"I am a fan of jazz."
>"I am a gamer."
>"I am a fan of rock music."
>"I am a star wars fan.".
Asian people, I believe it was specifically chinese, on the other hand filled the text with like:
>"I am a mother."
>"I am a father."
>"I am a worker."
>"I am a doctor."
>>
>>839538
You mean Labour Theory of Value? (LTV)
Imagine the economy judges the value of something with how many hours of work you put into it.

Now you stumble upon a very precious diamond and want to sell it for profit but since you put zero effort into it it's worthless.
While if you would work your ass off for 1 week of labour to pile up the biggest, fattest heap of shit in human history you would be paid handsomely. That's LTV in a nutshell.
>>
>>839601
kek
>>
>>853147
Yes and no, depends on the level of analysis. Your example is a good one, but for rank-and-file employees in the public sector and large corporations LTV holds very much true. If you don't fuck up and bring in acceptable results, your income in those sectors largely is a function of time.
>>
>>849184
Jesus, the pozz is already unbearably obvious.
>>
>>851199
yep
>>
File: lmao.jpg (78 KB, 1159x368)
78 KB
78 KB JPG
>>853157
I guess the LTV would also work for things like Wokeipedia, just hang around for long enough and produce some shitty wall of text articles then you'll become moderator or admin in some months and ready to censor and manipulate history for your personal agenda.
>>
>>851388
>mobile tier UI size
Appropriate for a mobile-tier game
>>
>>853172
You guys keep shilling this image but it's a somewhat often occurrence on that article. It's 2 niggers who keep bringing it up and keep getting btfo'd by everyone else and the cycle then repeats. This should be the last time though cause this is the first time it's gotten media coverage.
>>
>>853147
>>853157
Well if you work for a wage you are selling your labour by the hour not selling a finished product. LVT also kinda works for custom orders because you directly charge for the effort it took.
Even the somewhat exaggerated example aside problem with LTV is that it breaks down for commodities/interchangeable items. If I make X in 3 days of labour and you make X in 5 days of labour LVT would somehow dictate that the one you made is somehow more valuable. There is no incentive to efficiency other than someone arbitrarily commanding what the baseline rate is but at that point it's just a fixed price command economy and this explains why all communists ended up in that place.
>>
>>838260
I'm glad we've got mortar and pestle mana being implemented to represent the 19th century's well-known obsession with alchemy.
>>
>>850432
>>850448
>>851381
>get a 100k stack wiped
>can just rebuild them again because pops barely died
ah yes the lasting consequences of losing battles in V2
>>
>>853403
Post how many hours you have in Vic2 faggot. Deathwarring can easily leave a nation will less pops than it started the war with. Especially if you demob and remob several times
>>
>>853407
>exploiting mobilization
>mobilizing ever
lmao
>>
File: dem fuckin pops.png (152 KB, 477x363)
152 KB
152 KB PNG
>mfw anons unironically expected modern paradox to live up to paradox 10 years ago
>>
File: 1628889652498.jpg (2.35 MB, 1366x4608)
2.35 MB
2.35 MB JPG
As long as l'm able to do this I'll be happy
>>
>>853471
>interventionism in 1925
>subsidies
>taxing the rich
>protectionism as a country with few natural resources
it's time to take the liberalism pill
>>
>>853439
It's not actual anons. It's either disguised reditors or regular pdx shills.
>>
>>851722
This. There should be only "I win" shiny button. Everything else is useless clutter that is hard to control on my iPhone.
>>
>>853439
I mean Victoria 3 seems to be better by all standards compared to its predecessor, not surprising since Vicky 2 is very old and Paradox/strategy games only improved in time.
>>
>>838326
No no no. It's not mana, it's capacities so you clearly see it's something entirely different. Devs said so, so it must be true.
>>
>>853529
>It's new therefore it's good.
You're not very smart are you?
>>
>>853534
>and Paradox/strategy games only improved in time

Facts
>>
>>853471
That looks like it was a very fun campaign, I'd imagine Madagascar plays like Korea in the sense that it starts as a multi-state backwater that you can develop, but you can also larp as if you're the UK of Africa since you're on an island by yourself near the main continent. However, I've done a (very fun) Zulu game before which is basically next door, and I'd imagine doing a Madagascar campaign would be too similar to that.
>>
>>846355
>The game will be trash, and most players will drop it after a month and "wait for the DLC" just like they are for CK3 right now, and they will cope to no end about how the game is better than Vic2 because it has "more potential" while not touching it for months on end.
This was literally how Victoria 2's launch went, if anything Paradox boomers should be happy because their company is going back to the basics that the boomers miss so dearly.
>>
>>853138
What is worse, saying that you are an enjoyer of a hobby, or saying that you are your occupation?
>>
>>853525
There should also be war points which you can spend to win even more
>>
File: black_hole.jpg (50 KB, 680x395)
50 KB
50 KB JPG
>>835737
>>
>>853138
man, that asian stuff is depressing.
>>
reddit = gay faggots who chug nigger meat
>>
>>855465
Nowdays the westerners would wrote
> i am gay
> i am trans
> i am feminist
> i am turboqueerlesbian
> i am nonbinary furry wankbooba
Honestly, this is whats depressing.
>>
>>834302

In my first playthrough the country got invaded in the end and we lost and the president and the defence minister had a heroic last stand in the presidential palace. I was seriously not expecting that at all.
>>
>>837305

you're an imbecile
>>
>>853471

I kneel...
>>
>>833969
This. How do people not know this about plebbit yet? It's been proven that plebbit is full of bots, already difinitively proven by comp sci fags who posted the proof. And no, I'm not going to dig it up. If you're too retarded to find it yourself then you're too retarded to understand it anyway.
>>
>>853138
Your identity being defined by your job is the most "typical bug men thing" possible. I mean it's literally what bugs do.
>>
So the combat is a non-factor, okay.
Give it to me bros, how's the economy and the diplomatic manipulation side of things looking?
>>
>>858318
Economy is mostly pretty good - pop needs and goods production and distribution have all gotten nice overhauls that add a lot more detail and depth. Especially the new markets system, instead of just the dumb global market from Vicky 2 the world is divided into national markets with the ability to made trade deals and customs unions gain access to other markets or bring other nations into your own. For example getting a Chinese treaty port like Hong Kong will actually be a big deal now since it'll give you access to the Chinese market and all its goods and potential customers. There's also some more detail to your national finances too - different types of taxes like poll and land taxes, and at game start most countries won't even have income taxes. Budget surpluses aren't necessarily always a good thing and running a deficit and taking on debt can actually be beneficial to the economy.

On the other hand they removed stockpiles (if you don't have enough bullets for your army or whatever you just automatically buy more out of thin air at an increased price) and capitalists don't do their own AI investments anymore. Instead of a private sector you just have an "investment pool" of money that capitalists pay into and which you can spend on whatever industries you want. I don't really mind the removal of stockpiles but no private industry is really dissapointing.

As for diplomacy they still haven't gone into a lot of detail on it but the main new feature is "Diplomatic Plays" which allows you to threaten war goals (cession of territory, vassalization, opening their market to your trade, etc). Then it starts a process kind of like the Vicky 2 crisis system where other countries with an interest in you or the nation you're threatening can intervene, or you can make more demands. After the Play ends the threatened country can either back down and give up the original war goal (but not anything else added) or go to war and risk giving up everything if they lose.
>>
>>858368
Thanks for the fine summary Anon, after the first couple of dev diaries I just kinda stopped following the news but a lot of what you're saying sounds pretty good, I really should give it a day one pirate.
>capitalists don't do their own AI investments anymore
This does suck indeed, I used to love watching them go ham once they actually got big.
>>
>>858318
it's horrible
automatic trade is no longer a thing, if a pop and the border with france wants to trade with a pop on the border of spain, you need to sign a trade agreement manually. free trade doesn't exist as a concept outside of state markets
also to "streamline" the system, overproduced goods can still be sold and underproduced goods can still be bought. only "catch" is that the price decreases or increases respectively, meaning that a poor pop might eventually run out of money doing this IF the under/over production is getting considerable
>>
>>851272
Reminder you'll never be valid
>>
>>858521
>automatic trade is no longer a thing, if a pop and the border with france wants to trade with a pop on the border of spain, you need to sign a trade agreement manually.
That's an improvement over African tribesmen and English Aristocrats all participating in the same "world market" with no regard for distance or infrastructure. And infrastructure does now have an impact on the ability to access the market rather than just being a flat bonus to output or throughput
>only "catch" is that the price decreases or increases respectively
We don't have numbers but if the number of buy orders is much larger than sell orders then it does trigger a "shortage". You can also see in the production method dev diary that it is possible for a factory's bottleneck to be how many input goods it can buy.
>meaning that a poor pop might eventually run out of money
One other thing that's improved is that POPs don't have a set list of needs based on their profession anymore. Instead of wanting liquor and wine they'll want booze and fulfill that want depending on what they have access too. POPs also start having bigger wants as their wealth grows, and can have cultural level taboos or obsessions with certain goods.
Though I think the biggest improvement to the economy is that buildings like railroads and RGOs work like factories now, allowing more of them in a state and requiring employees and input goods to keep producing their effects.
>>858384
It's my biggest complaint with the new system too desu. But we know at least some buildings (substance farms and urban centres) that appear without player intervention, so I think it should be possible to mod in something like laissez faire.
>>
>>853542
>CK3
>more bland, more widespread appeal, less grand strategy
>duuur just as gud!
>>
>>853138
Both answers are cringe. The Chinese answer was made by people with 11 hour work shifts who have no choice but to use their two hours of free time a day to consoom because they don't have the energy for anything else. The western answer was made by people with a lot more free time who want to do nothing but consoom. It's very rare to meet a person in general whose hobbies are to make things instead of just looking at things or listening to them.
>>
>>858576
I really like that railroads and such require workers to build and maintain, so if your nation is in an economic downturn you can subsidize public works projects to get people jobs.
>>
>>833969
>>858231
>It's been proven that plebbit is full of bots
just like this roman gladiator forum then
>>
>>833943
vic 2:
>peace is a boring timelapse
>micro makes you do something thus makes war fun
vic 3:
>all is boring
simple as
>>
>>834294
>how can you browse this board and not see people complain about gookclicks in everything ever since it was spawned?
Easy. By staying away from those threads. You now realize you've basically been taling to same small people while everyone else sticks to their favorite games and don't leave.
>>
File: AF62ErM.png (36 KB, 1610x123)
36 KB
36 KB PNG
The discord is truly insufferable.
>>
>>858678
war micro has been replaced with econ micro.

Hope you like managing building levels all game!
>>
>>834892
(you)s are not karma or voting, you are the very definition of board cancer.
>>
>>859019
And how decent is it? if its just clicking a button every 31 days i might as well go play the trash that is EU4
>>
>>859151
Well, if we are going to be fair, you will have to worry about the overarching economic effects (i.e. if you have enough employable population, people with enough literacy, the political ramifications if empowering capitalists/aristocrats, if the building will be profitable, lest it start laying off people, etc.) of the buildings. It'll be nothing like EU4, which is build building --> gain resource/modifier
>>
>>859013
just bots talking to each other
anyone who deviates from the hive gets banned
>>
>>859372
Then they come here and they get confused or angry when they see people actually having their reservations and lowering their expectations. People criticizing their favorite company without instantly getting banned or having their comment hidden confuses them and they inevitably out themselves as newfags.
>>
>>833943
In VIC games you play as a nation not as a monarch.
>>
>>837172
Phones suck, I don't know why anyone tolerates touchscreens when we already have buttons and mouse/joystick control.
>>
>>859140
okay /gsg/tard, don't you have an EBIN meme to post in your circlejerk like uh uhhhh post chin or uhhh groBgermania bad
>>
With every passing day, /vst/ drifts closer towards being like /v/. What I mean is when the board opened threads were mostly delegated to topics surrounding individual games, or maybe discussion of game mechanics.
Then we began to see increasing threads about mods or current hot takes/gaming News.
Now we have multiple Vicky 3 threads active with loads of replies, and bumbling idiots throwing shit at each other to try and trigger responses random anonymous users of this aztec stucco laying forum.
It reminds me of the average thread on /v/ that are about current happenings in the game industry...
>OHHHNOONOONOONOOOO
>The charges, officer? (Picture of recent infamous individual)
>*Something about California, sjws, and the Jews taking away our videogame tiddies*
>(enter fanbase here) on suicide watch
>(enter fanbase) bros... we won/lost
Last but not least, under no circumstances, never ever, are you to make a thread about video games as a medium themselves.
Compare /v/, to the threads on here about obscure strategy games nobody's heard of but one person who is passionate enough to share it with like-minded people.
Which do you want?
>>
>>861181
Paradox threads and threads about new games may as well be /v/ lite because it's probably the peak of normalfaggotry in strategy vidya. We can't really do anything but tell these faggots to lurk moar and properly discuss things instead of shitflinging.
>>
>>855555
checked
>>
>>861181
A good chunk of the catalog is essentially just /twg/ and /gsg/, I actually play quite a few of the games discussed in these threads but the thread quality is just bottom of the barrel crap you would find on /v/ or in a vg general with a 200+ poster count. There's just no worthwhile discussion to be had, which is a shame. I mostly just ignore Paradox and Total War threads even though I've been an active player of Paradox's and CA's games for two decades, these threads are more often than not just not worth bumping. I'm not some ultra elitist but for some reason Total War games and a lot of Paradox's games are like a magnet for cancer.

Just ignore the trash and make worthwhile contributions elsewhere on the board, it's the best way to improve the overall situation.
>>
>>861181
No, it's only Vic 2 and HOI4 threads because they have massive underage edge lord audiences
>>
>>861181
>Me: The charges officer *coolface.png*
>You: You ate being too BASED, bring it down a notch
>Me: Bring it down; like Cali is bringing down Video Games as a medium
>You: AIEEEEEEEE you got me!
>Me: Oh no no no no (this guys on suicide watch)
>You: We lost to this Chud, complainsisters…
>>
>>861264
hello? walking and breathing manifestation of the based department?
>>
>>861196
I respectfully disagree, we both have played strategy games with complex mechanics so much, that we forgot just how much of a learning curve games like eu4 or even hoi4 have to the average casual gamer.
To call paradox normie tier is not that sound I believe. Normie tier for strategy games would be strategy lite, like Pikmin, starcraft (popular e-sports game), or even civilisation (if you consider it basic).
Although I will say that threads dedicated to individual hoi4 mods which are basically choose your own adventure novels, moreso than wargames, are what I have issue with
>>
>>861232
I will try this more in future. There have been decent paradox and total war threads here and there. But usually when they are about focused topics, like the total war Atilla thread. I like the way the poster incorporates quotes from the games into his opening post.
But yea these threads are as close to /v/ as I'd hope this board gets
>>
>>861250
The worst kind of underage audience. The audience who adopted politics at a far too young age
>>
>>861264
I see you have been broken by the retardation too huh?
>Basado.
>Manufactured in the fires of mount doom for male sexual organs of African descent
>What did they mean about this?
>What do they eat?
>>
>>834268
The whole idea came from some pairofcocks forum drones post, then there was another moron who made a video praising the idea.
>>
>>834282
>Taking away direct control of armies from monarchs and other heads of state is a great idea, especially in the Victorian era where none would be leading the charge in battle
right they did not lead battles, but they micromanaged their factories and pops right?
fuck off retard
>>
> we want to try some new approach in making our games
> no, how dare you, fucking morons and retards, to not do a game i want, reeee
why exactly do (You) care so much about it? just don't play it, older games are still fine and are not taken from us.
>>
File: saddams allegory.png (1.18 MB, 640x640)
1.18 MB
1.18 MB PNG
>>834348
I think the explanation paradox at some point gave is that the player represents the spirit of a nation and its people, not just its government. Which i think is a decent way to think about grand strategy games. Can't remember where i read it though.
>>
>>834348
Heads of state pretty much stopped leading armies themselves after the Napoleonic Wars and even before that they often delegated orders to their subordinates for obvious tactical reasons. For that reason alone Vicky 3 way of handling war is much more realistic.
>>
>>865793
They still had more control over armies than just telling a general "lmao just attack randomly idk"
>>
>>865805
Did they? Commanders more often than not did whatever they wanted as long as they accomplished their objectives and if their superiors were unhappy they would replace them.
The closest thing to a country leader commanding an army was Hitler and he was only "controlling" a fraction of an army group from far away.
>>
>>865793
>>865816
What a retarded faggot argument
Did heads of state manage industrialization or pop promotion then? NO, so what the fuck does it matter that they did not lead armies. Fucking moron.
>>
>>866768
Selective realism.
Every country is a de facto Communist/Fascist command economy, but god forbid you have more than three buttons to control your army.
>>
>Vic 3 WILL have mana
>Vic 3 WILL have 50% of leaders being female
>Vic 3 WILL be released on consoles
>Vic 3 WILL be released on mobile
>Vic 3 WILL NOT have war
And you ARE going to like it.
>>
>>866918
>numbers in grand strategy game are mana
Is money mana?
>>
>>866928
if they appear and disappear magically without strong internal logic behind it
>>
>>866933
So nothing in Vicky 3 then? Capacities have much more simulation going on behind them than e.g. colonial power or diplo influence from Vicky 2 did.
>>
>>866936
pls be bait
>>
>>866940
It's not bait.
>appear and disappear magically
Yeah, sure, if all your fucking bureaucrats die in some kind of bizarre accident, yes, you'll lose "mana" but I'm fairly certain that won't happen.
>>
>>866945
you're just a faggot feigning incredulity, you know what mana is, no one ever used word mana to describe gsg game before EU4 mana system so shut the fuck up faggot
>>
>>866958
And you don't know what mana is. The crux of your argument is because there's numbers with icons next to them, they're mana, instread of a feature of the game that's influenced by YOUR ACTIONS and not pure RNG in the case of EU4's Monarch Power.
>>
>>866936
colonial and diplo influence were ones of worst parts of vicky 2
you can have a ton of simulation behind any number, but if it's foundations are as shaky as "build administration, get global capacity number to spend on things everywhere and if you are in red, you get strange modifier that deletes part of magical taxes that you get from pops who have no wallets", it will not make this number less magical
>>
>>866962
I am not even the same guy
vic3 will have mana in some shape or form and you're shilling for paradox for no reason. eu4 has it, hoi4 has it and vic3 will have it.
also, RNG is not the reason why EU4 monarch points is mana
>>
>>866958
And nothing in Vicky 3 works like EU4 mana either, so what's the problem retard?
>>
>>867009
I will believe when I see it
>>
>>867009
it works like stellaris expansion mana
>>
>"game is built around diplomatic plays, we can't do x, y, and z because it takes away focus from the diplomatic plays"
>also the only results are to back down or go to war, there no negotiated agreements

Hype over. What the fuck are they thinking?
>>
>>850608
>No army movement to worry about, but thats not a problem says one shilled bavarian, the game just isnt meant for you :^)
>Yes I've only played CK games and not vic2 how could you tell?
>>
>>868212
I don't even play Vic3 or gsg games but this is really retarded. You can't rely on MP players to do anything but whatever gets them the win fastest and most reliably, that's the entire point. "people skills" don't belong in games that aren't about roleplaying.
>>
>>868212
No amount of "people skills" will stop random USA player from perma-occupying random Japan player to keep them stuck as an unciv.
>>
>>868212
>people skills
>no actual negotiation mechanics
>>
>>868212
>they won't agree to this deal because
>-10 base reluctance
>-50 you are a weakass scrub
>-100 watcha gonna do about it, bitch?
>>
>>868212
Do they realize how tone deaf they sound saying that? Do they not realize multiplayer gamers are sweaty tryhard meta obsessed twats?
>>
>>868301
Well OPB is a arrppee guy who hardly seems to play the game while excitedly talking about the next mod or whatever that will save it. I don't think he plays any games with multiplayer
He even admitted he wished he didn't have to control his armies in ck3
>>
>>868212
>>868221
>>868223
>>868252
>>868272
>>868301
Unfortunately, multiplayer autists are such a small part of the community that they could all die in the same bus accident and it would not affect anything; Vicky 3 is not made to be satisfying in multiplayer
>>
In two years time they will add """Tactical""" (Its fucking strategic you retards) war back into the game in an attempt to save it and One Proud Cuckuld will say he always thought they should have kept the old warfare system. Fucking tiresome.
All the cunts who say "I AM SO HAPPY THEY CHAGNED IT GUYS! MORE PEOPLE LIKE IT THIS WAY!" Will drop the fucking game before they even start shitting out DLC Just like CK3 because CK3 IS THE EXACT SAME DOGSHIT!
People give it perfect scores and never fucking play it!
>>
>>868347
Like you said tons of people liked ck3, but then people stopped playing it when the flavor of the month changed or they realized that there wasn't much to do besides blobbing with no strategy.
Only people left are incest fetishists who draw hentai for arrr slash crusader kings. (although I've never seen the main one who does it ever post a screenshot of a game hmm)
>>
File: ishygddt.jpg (170 KB, 680x680)
170 KB
170 KB JPG
>>868326
>Unfortunately,
>>
>>868347
I've noticed that a lot of the open supporters of the new system (not the people who like the concept but want changes, I'm talking about the people who want no change) have unironically never played Vic2. They think that a full command economy style game with very minimal control over warfare will somehow be amazing and fun when they haven't even bothered to play the fucking tedious shit that was planned economy and commie countries in vic2, or they somehow think that the game won't just turn into shift+click ad infinitum.
>>
>>868526
Yeah, the best way to play Vicky 2 command economy style is in tiny nations with like 4-6 states, any more then that and its better to build up a capitalist class and watch them go utterly crazy. It is also 100% more effective even WITH the capitalists being retarded because they can make 100 retarded decisions for every single decision that you make.
I also hate the "You just want to hide on a mountain or cheese the AI." There are actually very few situations where you can purely cheese the AI you are going to have to take fights where you can get them at times or loose ground and get occupied that can hurt you later. It was a stratagy to loose ground to force a battle in an area that was advantagious to you.
And if you do manage to get the AI to attack you in the mountins? You still loose men! They might roll great and make it very costly for you! It is entirely the rhetoric of people who have never played the fucking game and will continue to never play the fucking game.
>>
File: Screenshot.png (103 KB, 1302x513)
103 KB
103 KB PNG
>>868541
>no hiding in mountians is cheeese its not rpppee!!!
>You're not actuallly tricking them with your gnerallls thats not acutally happenin!
>>
>>868548
Does this retard not actually know that "Cheeseing" enemy armies into mountins was an actual tactic employed constantly?
Does this fucking gibbon not understand that the serbians held back the austrian army by hiding up a fucking mountain?
Does this utter window licker think that CHOOSING THE LOCATION OF A FUCKING BATTLE IS NOT PART OF THE STRATEGY OF WARFARE!
I am actually angry at how stupid this cunt is.
>>
>>868550
Dude just claps at whatever new sims lite bs is coming from ck3 and half the time saying "but think of the moooders" when a half baked feature is teased. I don't think he even played vic2
>>
>>868550
Do you even know how to read? His entire point is that the Paradox GSG strategy of baiting the enemy into mountains because it's too stupid to understand that your 3k stack has a 10k army right behind it is nothing like the actual historical military strategy of taking fights on favourable terrain beyond the superficial resemblance of fighting on a mountain, therefore no aspect of historical simulation is being lost by its removal.
>>
>>868747
And I am telling you that baiting an army into a battle with a smaller force with larger reserves they are not aware of happens CONSTANTLY you retard.
Don't defend the cuck. Regurdless someone like OPC would not be able to execute that stratagy anyway, he does not know how to play.
>>
>>868749
>with larger reserves they are not aware of
This never happens in PDS games. The AI never has fog of war. If you think you "baited' the AI it was letting you bait it. In EU4, move a big stack from somewhere you think the AI can't see, to a province the AI is sieging with a small stack somewhere else, and the AI will move their stack away pre-emptively. They can always see you coming and always know where your armies are. You're not tricking anyone or executing anything, the AI is just too dumb to recognize the specific situation, or is losing on purpose
>>
>>868749
>And I am telling you that baiting an army into a battle with a smaller force with larger reserves they are not aware of happens CONSTANTLY you retard.
Yes, but that's not what's happening when you bait an enemy AI into mountains in e.g. EU4.
Battles like you're describing happened after, for example, the defending general ordered a series of raids on enemy supply trains to cut them off logistically and force a decisive battle. Usually not just because some retard decided to smash his army into a fortified mountain encampment. The point is that EU4 and similar paradox games aren't capable of simulating anything like this, so in the context of historical military strategy "cheese" is the right word to use.





Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.