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I've just started learning Python and would like to make a game that brings economic, political and brigade-level warfare elements together. Say, something like Total War with more detailed economy and politics mechanics (like hoi games) and Steel Division-type battles (rts battles located at small regions on the map). I don't really care about graphics that much, only numbers and symbols matter to me. 2D gfxs similar to those of Darkest Hour: A Hearts of Iron Game would be ideal.
I know that this is a wildly ambitious project, but I will pursue it because I lack a good hobby to go along with university.
Any suggestions would be great.
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>>750264
I'm working an a Grand Strategy engine myself, personally I'm writing it in C++. Using SDL2 for hardware abstraction and OpenGL for graphics.
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>>750268
Is Python any good? Good luck on your project.
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>>750269
Python is easy to use, but not particularly fast. For a CPU-heavy genre you probably want C++, at least for the simulation side. It is also the industry standard language for game programming, so it'll be the easiest to get help with if you run into problems.
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>>750264
C/C++ definitely the best in terms of raw performance

I myself am using C#. It's easier because no manual memory management and so far I'm satisfied with it
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>>750264

>I've just started learning Python and would like to make a game that brings economic, political and brigade-level warfare elements together

Are you studying something related to history/economics ? I think a game like this would require an extensive reading list just to create the most rudimentary representation of the real world's socio-economic fabric.

I personally have a dedicated folder to this dilemma named "Grand Strategy Research", I would like to obtain a systemic understanding of history/economics.
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>>750264
Judging from Paradox games, you don't really need to properly learn how to code.
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>>750308
I have a recommendation, specialize in one period, in one region.
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>>750264
By the time you can actually make a game like that the question of language will become completely irrelevant, so just learn whatever.
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>>750264
Most games are written in C++ because it's fast and gives you more control over memory allocation. Python could be used as a scripting language like for modding and custom maps and scenarios. Civ 4 uses Python scripts (5 and 6 use Lua).
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Thank you guys for your recommendations
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>>750264
Python is far from optimal. You can use it, and it's useful for smaller apps where it's simple to create and doesn't have to be optimized, but for games you should be looking at something faster, but this >>750369 is also sort of true. I wouldn't say that you can't start with a game, but it is a hefty task and you miss out on a lot of best-practices and tricks that you might learn when doing other things. Games tend to need a bit of everything in terms of coding knowledge.
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Holy C
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>>750269
python is shit, but it has good libraries for tasks in many other fields
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>>750369
at the very least he should use something with sane typing
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anyway the answer is c#.

don't use something with manual memory management it will cause you much more trouble than it will save you.
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>>750677
The more or less lack of type allocation in Python annoys me to no end. I am never quite sure what fits and what doesn't fit in a variable because of it.
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>I will pursue it because I lack a good hobby to go along with university.
Look at the number of mods (mods, not full blown games!) that were started like this and died in at the absolute most 5-6 years.
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>>750308
Can you make a mega of it pls
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You need to decide what engine you want to use, if you're going to use an engine at all. From there, you'll end up using whatever language the engine uses. For Unity, you'll use C#, and for Unreal you'll use C++ (I think, I never got far enough with Unreal to get to where I was coding things, I only ever messed with the map editor).

One thing I want to address here is that if you want to make a GSG-type thing (though it sounds like your thing will end up being turn-based if you're wanting to have RTS battles like in Total War), start by fleshing out the military system. It sounds like you already have an idea for how you want your battles to play like, so spend your initial efforts figuring out how to make battles work and prototyping them. From what I've seen, the GSG's that have come out that Paradox wasn't involved with all just became forgotten, and the one thing they all had in common was that their battle systems were afterthoughts:

>Age of Civilizations II
I didn't play this one personally, but from the LP's I've seen it looks like the entire battle system is making your number bigger, and whoever has the biggest number wins. There didn't seem to be anything indicating that unit composition went beyond anything other than "big number".

>Realpolitiks
This one intentionally avoided having the type of battle system where you make armies and then direct them to do things, everyone ended up sleeping through this game. It got a sequel recently that I have yet to see an LP of by someone not being paid to promote the game.

>Superpower 2
Technically this one has a fleshed-out battle system, but then the execution fucks up. Every time I declare war and invade, the CPU sends its entire army to the one city that I invaded, so there's only ever one huge battle where I fight the opposing country's entire army in any given war, after which I just spread out to the other cities and overtake them easily since the other country just spent its entire military on one battle.
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>>755215
(Cont.) So in Superpower 2's case, it's good that the battle system is fleshed out, but the AI needs work too, or at least they need a better system for attrition (they might have one, but I've just never been held back by it).

t. spent the time since East vs. West got cancelled trying to make my own GSG, the biggest lesson I've learned besides managing scope creep is you REALLY want to develop your battle system first because, despite people insisting otherwise, the foundation of a GSG is its battle system. In fact, I'm probably going to spend tomorrow on trying again with making a working battle system, it's been a while since the last attempt.
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>>751183
>died in at the absolute most 5-6 years.
Sounds perfect for university + grad school desu
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>>755241
Yes, except they almost never get to releasing anything except a few screenshots of models, maybe even with textures, and several articles about how great the mod will be.
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>>750362

NTA, what period would you suggest ? I think feudal Japan is a good idea, there is the mix of Buddhism and Shinto religions which found themselves in conflict for followers from both the lower and upper levels of society. Then there are the various classes which again were in conflict and a less known caste system contributing to societal turmoil. And to no forget the more technologically advanced Europeans which helped various rulers in exchange for trade and missionary opportunities.
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>>750264
Since you don't care that much about graphics, there's no reason to build the engine yourself rather than use an engine like Unity.

Mechanically speaking, there are a few difficult parts, but it's practical as a hobby project as long as your keep your scope down.
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>>755218
>>755215

I wish games took into consideration the social fabric of the region being invaded, in pic related the soviets took control of centralized regions whilst ignoring the tribe controlled areas which were more difficult to control. I've only seen ck2 do this, having to build a fort just to lock down occupation on nomad land.
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>>750264
You should start with the game engine you want to use and see what languages that one supports.
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>>750702
Everything fits, that's the point.
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I want to know what engine Creeper World used. Feels like homebrew
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FORTRAN
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>>755859
You can do that if you want, but if your units are just numbers smeared across a map and your battles are determined by coin flips then people won't be playing your game for very long.
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>>750308
>>751425
seconded
>>756274
it's on the wikipedia page for it, anon...
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microsoft excel
i'm not actually joking
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>>750295
>I myself am using C#. It's easier because no manual memory management and so far I'm satisfied with it

I'm a software engineer and this is wrong. It handles most garbage collection but not in every instance. Be especially careful of things you're doing in loops, there are many cases where resources won't get released until the loop is finished, so you should handle that manually.
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>>756531
doing your game's prototype as a spreadsheet or even a boardgame is a good idea, yeah. It's very easy to get lost in the weeds of technical implementation details programming and forgetting what exactly your game was meant to be. Especially since most of the time people start making a game without actually knowing what it is they want, or how to do it.
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>>750264
HTML
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>>750357
Kek
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>>750264
I was at the same point several years ago.
Just you know Python is a joke, it is the baby's first language, you should move out of it the better, literally any other language is ten times faster. I'd recommend moving into Java or JavaScript before jumping into C++, which is highly overrated.

Regardless, making a strategy game probably isn't a good idea for beginner, you are better of doing grounded projects like chess. Many simple games games require stupid amount of work. If you just making an ambitious strategy without fully understanding these difficulties, you will end up rebuilding your code from scratch many times.
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im sorry OP but if you have to ask this question you aren’t ready to make a strategy game. strategy games are some of the hardest games to program, and games are some of the hardest software to make. if you’re asking what language to use to do that you aren’t good enough yet. make some smaller games in whatever tools you want to build up general skills before tackling literally the hardest genre to program.
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>>758412
>recommending JavaScript over anything
Why would you wish that on the poor anon
>>
>>758451
Nobody finishes their first game (or their first twenty) but it doesn't make the discussion any less useful.
MMOs are more difficult than strategy games from a game design and technical implementation perspective.
I agree that making clones is the best way to get started.
>>758412
Python's fine for learning. A beginning programmer is probably going to run into performance issues doing silly 2^n naive implementations, no matter the language. At least the high level of abstract lets you spend more think thinking about your game instead of juggling pointers, what an AbstractTemplateProxyFactory is, or trying to figure out what black magic JS is up to this time.
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As somebody programming since 2004 in several languages, I suggest you to try with Javascript. Not because it is easier for people that have just learned to program, but because for your thing you could use the Google maps technology, there are tools to draw polygons on that map to create regions, it's easier for us to test because you can host it on github for free if you are still not using a database, it comes with an internal database (small but enough) and later its easier to add a multiplayer
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>>750308
Systematic view of history:
A folk needs something that the neighbor has or a noble wants to expand his property. If the stimated power of the neighbor is same or less, attack (this ignores details like weather conditions. Like napoleon going to Russia in winter)

The bigger the empire and the older it is, the change of it splitting in the number of heirs/factions increases.

Old conquered regions use to keep their customs and can rebel/have unease if the power that controls them applies policies contrary to them (the most recent case, China vs Hong Kong)

That covers 90% of it all.
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>>758475
Cope, Javascript is used everywhere.
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>>758412
>Python
>the baby's first language
It was Basic for me. Well, Algol really but out of the practical ones.
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>>755218
>despite people insisting otherwise, the foundation of a GSG is its battle system
Other than HoI, all Paradox lines of games have atrociously bad combat, but they are huge financial successes that defined the GS genre.
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i wanna make a simple war game too, where can i learn about programming economics and stuff like that
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>>750674
Only good for ML, desu. Spastic austists and hipster fags in junior year like to tell you otherwise.
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>>760222
Just read about economics and try to model it in your code. I don't see how it'd be hard to at least understand where to look.
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>>756581
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY3r120SXhU

no, you fucker, you make the whole goddamn game in excel
no tranny unity
no ENTERPRISE GRADE Unreal4
no hipster godot


openoffice is acceptable, too
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>>750264
Don't use Java
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Do you retards even program in the modern day? C++ in gamedev is pretty much exclusively used by UE4. C# is the new standard with minimal perf loss.
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>>760223
>Only good for ML
No. Also good for many other areas of science. There are very good support libraries for that. (Arguably, they're often a Python layer that's telling a layer in C or Fortran or something like that what to do.)
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Just use SQL and cut out the middleman.
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>>765341
Would it be theoretically possible to make an entire game in R?
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Use C and SDL.
>>758412
>"python is a joke"
>recommends streetshitter language and sóy language
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>>760210
>battle system: dice roll
I mean, the issue is that they can't actually be super complex because many battles happen constantly.
That being said, there is no excuse for awfulness and other arbitrary. In EU4, you are actually punished for having too much cav, when entire armies were some times composed out of it, in Imperator, cavalry can't assault forts, I guess the cavalry is glued to their horses.





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