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Been thinking about that for a while. Do you consider management sims such as Lobotomy Corporation, Oxygen Not Included, Planet Zoo etc as Strategy Games? Why?
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>>693326
Yes. Even sports games are allowed here.
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>>693326
Genres don't have hard deliniations anyway and it's something like that famous court case about porn (I cannot define pornography, but I know it when I see it). RTS and turn-based strategy are kind of a given. Civ opens the floodgates for citybuilders. Citybuilders lead to economic and colony management games. When you compare the extremes (say an RTS like Starcraft with a tycoon game like OpenTTD or with a colony sim with RPG elements like Rimworld) it seems insane that they belong together, but there's a fairly logical chain that leads there and the divide to other big genres (action, RPG, etc) is still bigger.

It might also be a shortcoming of the English language. When I hear "strategy" I tend to not think of building cities, but "simulation" makes me think about planes and cars. Where do games fit in where you build cities/colonies and manage an economy? Germans have this beautiful word "Aufbautrategie" for these games - strategy games where building is a bigger focus than destroying.
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I think what qualifies them as Strategy games is the fact that planning and minimising risk plays a big role.
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>>693326
Management requires strategy. What is an RTS but the management of an army? Also LC could've considered a light RTS once an abno breaches.
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Guys. I am on day 24 and having fun, but things are getting overwhelming really quickly. The bird runs away almost twice per day, the Queen of Hatred keeps me playing slow because she runs away and kills everyone at the smallest mistake I make with timing her work, Schadenfraude doesnt let me play zoomed out anymore, and now there is a ghost train trampling on employees at random points of the day. This was all kinda ok but yesterday I got a Noon event that killed 75% of my workers by dumping Obelisks on them. I looked it up and it seems like it is made "to punish having idle employees" but I cant risk just sending everyone to work with the Queen around. So...

How long does this game last? I think I might reliably be able to get work done before Noon most of the time for a few more days, but if those Obelisks keep spawning, I'll just have to reset most of my days and then things wont be fun.
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>>693326
Yes, strategy is a pretty broad umbrella of a genre and these games fit under it more than they do any other established genre.
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>>693326
its been decided all korean games go here.
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>>693326
It seems like if a game lets you control more than like 6 characters/units simultaneously then it's considered a strategy game
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>>693803
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>>693803
This isn't really a Lobotomy Corp thread, but I'll give some advice anyway. The obelisks you are describing sounds like Violet Noon Ordeal. You can tell which Ordeal you will get by looking in the top left corner, just check after each meltdowns and there will be an icon that shows up. On how to handle them, just move your nuggets out of department rooms, they don't spawn anywhere else. If you forgot to move your nuggets when it shows up, pause quickly and try to move your nuggets before they land.

If you have execution bullets, you can use them for QoH to kill some clerks to prevent her counter from lowering.
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>>693326
Is it just me or that logo looks like a dildo up an ass?
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>>693860
It's suppose to be a L piercing the brain, but now that you said it I can't get that image out of my head. Thanks nigger.
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>>693860
Ever hear of a fella by the name of Freud? You might find his work interesting
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>>693714
If you think about the literal definition of a strategy game, you could argue that every game is a strategy game because all games need some strategy even candy-rush. In narrower sense it just every game that doesn't fit other genres, which essentially is just wargames and simulators.
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>>693326
>Oxygen Not Included
Yes because the fanbase is filled with autists
No because it's not a game, it's a chore
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>>693326
Because Theme Hospital and Dungeon Keeper set precedent.

>>693846
can't stop won't stop
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>>693699
>Where do games fit in where you build cities/colonies and manage an economy? Germans have this beautiful word "Aufbautrategie" for these games - strategy games where building is a bigger focus than destroying.
So google tells me that just translates to "Build up strategy", so to put it simply, you already used the genre titles.

Colony builder
>dwarf fortress
>rimworld
>(loosely) prison architect
>oxygen not included
City builder
>simcity
>cities: skylines
>tropico
There is no such thing as an economy genre because it's one game called Victoria II. There are plenty of factory and logistics games, like OpenTTD, Railroad Tycoon, Factorio, but no economy game.
Of course these "genres" have too much overlap with other things. For example, Tropico leans towards narrative/level based, like Frostpunk, but then Frostpunk is more of a management game.

There is at least one strategy city builder on steam where you build Sci-Fi ships to go blow up the other city, or something.

You are right that simulation should make you think about planes and cars. It's the boring genre where the dev either intentionally or through lack of ability made a spreadsheet game that isn't a game and usually has no goals. Technically dwarf fortress is a simulator because its colony gameplay is terrible, like all colony games.
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>>694121
>no economy game
Patrician 3
Capitalism 2
Port Royale

I'd call these "economy games".
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>>693836
I ain't an expert, but I think that Korea has made more games than Troubleshooters and the PM games.
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>>694135
obviously Ragnarok Online becomes strategy game the moment you need to coordinate half a dozen bots farming gear for your main character
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>>694135
Are there any that aren't grindy MMOs?
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>>694121
>There is no such thing as an economy genre. There are plenty of factory and logistics games, like OpenTTD, Railroad Tycoon, Factorio, but no economy game.
Merchant/trading sims like Patrician 2/3, The Guild, or (even older) Fugger. Industry Giant is also more than just logistics since you produce in your own factories and sell in your own shops. Plenty of games with supply and demand mechanics and the main goal of making money (not building settlements). Vicky 2 being "muh economy simulator" is pretty much a meme and nobody plays that game primarily for gaming the economy. It's a country management game first and foremost.
Your definition of "city builder" is also pretty broad - there's a difference between a Sim City and a Tropico/Caesar III/Anno title where you progressively have a bigger focus on economy, so depending where you draw the line they might count.
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>>694104
How is it any different from say Civilization or Total War or Europa Universalis?
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>>693803
None of these really sound like big problem
Bird you can just ignore it if you can't work on it to prevent it from escaping. Keep somebody near its room so it will focus on that agent instead fly over entire facility.
QoH if you have trouble with cheesing her gimmick, just release abno to kill enough clerks between times when Ordeals do it, you have easiest abno to control during breach - Schad
For Schadenfraude itself you don't need to zoom entire facility, better periodically check each department
Train is easy to handle, just have somebody near it and send it all time.
Violet Noon, just move people from main room before it spawns, don't send everybody far away or to work unless you really want to have fun time
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>>694110
>>693846
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>>693326
i don't know but i love games like Domina, if you know more games like that one please tell me
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>>694246
Wait how the actual fuck
Shelter is supposed to have abnormalities lose track of you
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>>694295
It don't work with all abnos. But still nugget inside is immune
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>>694181
Do rhythm games count? They've made quite a few of those.
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I dont see where the strategy in Lobcorp comes from unless trial and error and kiting enemy attacks is counted as such.
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>Doing Hokma suppression again for lulz
>Get God Delusion for the first time ever
I wasn't ready for Apoc Bird-lite. That wasn't funny you oddly attractive old bastard
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>>694323
It’s not the most complex game out there but the lategame bosses need a good deal of prior planning and, dare I say it, strategy unless you want a dozen+ agents to die each attempt.
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bully hokma
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>>693326
mostly the trade of a worldview for a facility view is the greater difference i see in these strategy games
might be interesting to compare them to puzzle games like factorio but since some of them involve tackling a enemy force like LC does, it might be more strategical that administrative
then theres the "unusual" enemy such as a administrative game to build better that other artificial enemies like rimworld

>>694065
candy crush is a dexterity based kind of game, so it might not be a good example.
id say puzzle games are a good way to demonstrate what you mean
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>>694153
fuck you, i laughted way more that i should
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>>693803
>>694240
train is a good reason to reset. so is doctor and almost any tree
the game will pile necessities on you. the more you advance, the more employees, abnos and issues you will need to handle. the worse ones will demand your attention, and its really very possible to be swarmed with timed abnos. when that last one happens, just admit you cant manage the facility and rollback what you can
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It's not a big deal to let some nuggets die.
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>>694065
"Strategy" is often used as a blanket term for "plan" when there's a bit more nuance to it. Generally plans are divided into the plan itself which is made before engaging in the action (the strategic level) and the actual application of the plan and dynamic changes on the fly (the tactical level). While there is some overlap what I believe defines a strategy is whether the gameplay itself focuses on the strategic or tactical aspect. The vast majority of games focus on the latter.
Not to say there is no strategy in any of those games, but let's take CoD for example; your "strategy" is generally some variation of "find enemy kill enemy" while the focus of the gameplay boils down to outmaneuvering and shooting your enemies. Compare to a 4x game, where the vast majority of the time is spent expanding and planning ahead, with on-the-fly decisions being less common. Puzzle games are based more around finding how to solve the puzzle rather than actually putting together an organized plan to do so, and I would keep them distinct from either.

Management games generally have a goal you want to reach for and you have to put together a plan on how you actually reach that goal. Tycoons have very few things happen outside your control so they're almost the purest form of strategy really. Games like LC and SCII have strong tactical elements of unit micro, but most of the time you need a strategy on how you're going to build up your force and move it around in order to win the match/day. So yes, the genre is pretty broad, but not nearly as broad as implied, and the vast majority of games fall outside the category.
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>>693326
Planet Zoo is strategy/simulation
Lobotomy corp and Oxygen Not Included are not because they have faggy art styles that I hate
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>>694526
Grow up.
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>>693326
Management in general I'd say is strategy without a traditional opponent. Your opponent is the bottom line, or the elements, or whatever. Managrment also tends to be more indirect. In an RTS you click your dudes and you click the enemy dudes you want to attack, and your dudes set to it imediatley, while in a management game you would tell your dudes to attack, and they may attack if they don't have something more important to do. I'd say LC is a weird case since it's both fits the sub-genre of management, and just strategy in general once something breaches. At least going by these definitions.
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>>693326
SimCity is a strategy game.
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>>694215
>Your definition of "city builder" is also pretty broad
Anon was confused as to how to use English, like a weeb calling everything an isekai, so I gave anon two easily defined smaller genres.
Evidently I didn't know there was an economy genre.
I wouldn't ever define city builder, I'm letting you do it by what the words City and Builder mean to you. Hopefully that lets you exclude Puzzle Games (obvious), Management Games (resources/workers) and Strategy Games (military expansion).
>It's a country management game first and foremost.
Not really, it's a watch the simulation game with map painting elements. Or a liquor factory followed by clicking the Three Hurrahs event for experienced players.
There is no country management.
>>694222
You have agency in those three games. ONI is "You have 1 problem, you can make this to solve the problem, but it produces 3 more problems".
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>>693803
I had to start over on day 17 the first time because of one single abnormality that seemed cool and gave good buffs but turned out to be not so cool
Don't be afraid to milk the shit out of your current abnos for EGO gear and then rewind memory to milk them some more, even when you start over you keep all your gear and data assuming the people wearing said gear didn't die before rewind.
Also, focus on doing the missions as soon as you can, you geat great perma upgrades that you keep even on subsequent runs.
There's a pattern to the obelisks, they always drop in the same rooms, and anyone not in said rooms is immune to the stomp
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>>694438
>good reason to reset. so is doctor
Coward
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>>693326
strategy game mean it has essential gameplay featuring "managing" resources(Army,worker,food,etc) So yes management sims is strategy game. And why Dota/CSGO which include element of planning and cooperation between players(If these even exist in average match) aren't strategy game like what Steam said.
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>>694743
I find it funny that the pinned thread says that mobas are okay, but almost every moba thread gets deleted.
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>>694775
I have no idea why MOBA would be call strategy when main essential skill was last hitting, keyboard skill combo, and Item combo. Speak of which. Sandbox isn't essentially Strategy, the Sims example is Single player RPG with house building.
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>>694920
MOBAs were derived from Starcraft, dude...
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>>694920
It's true that mobas are closer to class based action games than strategy despite originating from the RTS genre
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>>694924
no, mobas were from WC3
more specifically DOTA 1 was a mod for WC3
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>>694924
That doesn't make it strategy, There is even Warcraft 3 Kart Racing map.
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>>695049
Bro, your Aeon of Strife?
>>694971
RTS are already borderline in terms of strategy games since unit control is a pretty big portion of the gameplay. MOBAs just took that and focused even more on the micro aspect, and while there's still plenty of strategy involved with unit selection and map control, the majority of the time you're focusing on the tactical level with killing creeps/heroes.
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>>695105
>Real-time-strategy are just borderline strategy
What did he mean by this?
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>>695105
I wouldn't say MOBAs focus on the micro aspect. Once you only have one hero left to move around, it's not really micro anymore
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>>695108
I talked about it a little here >>694499
RTS have plenty of strategy involved with map control, unit composition, positioning, resources, etc. Thing is a lot of the actual gameplay is at the tactical and combat level, and whole games can be decided by micro. Grand strategy and many sim games have basically no micro involved and are contained entirely at the strategic level.
Not saying RTS aren't strategy games just that they aren't as "pure" strategy as other games.
>>695122
Well it's definitely not macro play. Whether an apple is in a bunch or by itself it's still one apple. Any RPG could probably be classified as a micro game, we just don't call them that because the term is pointless without the context of macro to define it.
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>>693326
Definitely, Strategy games deals a lot of resource management and the games you mentioned have resources as part of the core gameplay mechanics and essential to progress your game
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>>693857
>This isn't really a Lobotomy Corp thread,
It is now.
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WHERE THE FUCK IS AYIN
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>>695606
He's in the Light chillin
he deserves a rest after attaining Godhood
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>tfw Library of Ruina crashed right as The Purple Tear teleported at 350 health
So this is the will of the Library...
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Should I read DD before I play Ruina or after?
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>>695793
Most people haven't read it so it isn't necessary, but you should read it afterwards if you want to read it.
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>>695793
As you do so.
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>>695793
LC > WonderLab > Ruina > DD
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>>695793
Distortion Detective is not intended to be supplementary material to Library, not prequel, not sequel either. Read it when you want it
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Gonna hijack this thread to ask but is Ozma buged in ruina?
I sware my guy with the oblivion debuff hits the right jack more than 9 times but he still turns into one on the 3rd scene.
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>>695944
Thread for PMfags so we don't end up taking over this one.
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>>695931
I beat him a couple days ago normally and in the realization and had no problems.
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OP here, since this became a thread about Lobotomy Corp now might as well ask. Should I play LC or Oxygen not Included as my next game? I'm looking for a not so mentally demanding game right now since I just finished playing Factorio last week.
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>>696183
>I'm looking for a not so mentally demanding game
that kinda rules out LC
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>>696183
I have 100 hours in LC and 50 in ONI. I could probably play ONI for an arbitrary amount of time more, while I'd have a bit of a hard time returning to LC. On the other hand have I enjoyed my time with LC far more than ONI.
ONI is more or less factorio dressed up as a colony sim with some basic chemistry and physics added. LC is a bit harder to pin down. It's a pseudo-puzzle game that shifts focus to a management/RTS game, an easy game that shifts into a really hard game, and a boring game that becomes a really engaging game.
ONI is easy to pinpoint as a Klei game. You are constantly on a knife's edge of survival until you learn it and that aspect becomes a cakewalk and you are instead meant to fuck around. The game also feels a bit shallow in some aspects, or rather the systems seem more involved than they are when you start out.
LC is also very much a PM game. A great story with a lot of subtext and esoteric references, good gameplay that doesn't work for everyone, and being shoddily put together programming wise.
ONI I can recommend if it's on sale. Especially now that they are going with DLC.
LC I'd recommend pirating to try, but if you enjoy it nearly as much as I did then it's worth the current price.
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>>696201
I mean early days aren't demanding. Keter is hair-pulling, but that's really far in so by that point he might have recovered a bit. Things like scraping the floor might be a bit of a spike as well, but I don't think it's demanding in the way Factorio is.
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>>696183
pic
>>696219
It's weird that Oxygen Not Included doesn't have a presence on here. It feels like it would be the right kind of 'tism for anons to play ad infinitum, but I haven't seen a single thread for it. It isn't even that colony sims are rare because you see DF, Rimworld and that chinese Rimworld on here quite often.
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>>696237
ONI is a little too autistic even for 4chan.
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why do so many trannies play LoR?
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>>696238
Probably more to do with anon having the wrong kind of autism.
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696240
Weak bait.
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>>696245
Whenever you go to twitch there's either several koreans or tranny vr streamers
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>>696248
LoR is not a TCG retard
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>>696248
>watching twitch
>outside of official PM streams
well there's your problem, retard
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>>696248
Transexuals are everywhere these days, there's no escaping them. They've infiltrated in every single community.
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>>696253
>>696254
It's just more bait retards.
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>>696260
33% of burger zoomers are lgbt now. They won.
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>>696286
Source?
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>>696286
globohomo won
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>>693326
Should I turn off the backer abnormalities? No spoilers please.
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>>696308
Don't, they're fun.
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>>696308
They have some fun ones plus more abnos means more gear to equip
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>>696308
There is no reason to do it unless you want less abnos and less gear for some reason
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>>696237
I think the artstyle of ONI is a huge turn-off
It is for me at least. If I didn't know it was a super autistic game already I'd still see it as factorio/rimworld for rick&morty fans
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>>696328
Only the humans look strange, the rest is really well drawn.
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What will be LoR's review score after it comes out on xbox?
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>>694920
>Speak of which. Sandbox isn't essentially Strategy, the Sims example is Single player RPG with house building.

Yes we discussed this on /vrpg/ and the decision was unanimous: the sims is an rpg
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>>696237
>It's weird that Oxygen Not Included doesn't have a presence on here. It feels like it would be the right kind of 'tism for anons to play ad infinitum, but I haven't seen a single thread for it.

Promotional art gives off a bad vibe. Tumblresque and too many minorities.
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>>696371
10/10.
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>>696390
Lol the sims is not a fucking rpg nigga
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>>696391
You're retarded.
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>>693326
>A strategy game or strategic game is a game (e.g. a board game) in which the players' uncoerced, and often autonomous, decision-making skills have a high significance in determining the outcome. Almost all strategy games require internal decision tree-style thinking, and typically very high situational awareness.
It's from Wikipedia. So, yes. I also consider Simulation games to be Strategy games.
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>>693326
I just started this game today, is kinda hard to understand at first (i'm dumb) but i'm enjoying it so far. The music is top tier
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>>696412
/vrpg/ memes have no place here
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>>695606
He fucked up



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