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File: dotards.jpg (237 KB, 1450x823)
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>try blitzkrieg
>you just CAN'T ok!
>even if it's plains terrain you just CAN'T push ok?
>YOU ARE SUFFERING ATRITTION, THIS MEANS YOUR VERY FAST LIGHT TANKS WILL NOW MOVE AT THE SPEED OF YOUR INFANTRY
>yes it's perfectlyl ogical for a single division to hold down 24 divisions so they can reinforce the line

who honestly tought of this absolute mongoloid tier system?
>>
>16 divisions in one county
Anon you're attritioning because you have 240,000+ men with tanks, motorized equipment, ect, in such a ridiculously small area. Think about if that were the case in real life.
>>
>>680950
He's also on a river
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>>680950
each division is less then 10k men, and it did happen how did you think bararossa went? they jsut pushed on al lfront equally? ofcourse not it's called encirclements
>>680959
i was not crossing one i was crossing into the plains
>>
>try to invade belgium
>quickly find all my aircraft destroyed by the 1500 strong allied fighter force
is it even worth it to produce CAS before you can prevent enemy air supremacy?
>>
>>680908
>16 divisions in one tile and they're apparently 16w
kek
>>
>>680908
First its a game, second stop bitching about you not being able to push through, third you lack oil so your tanks are not as efficient as they could be, fourth you should have spread those division around and checked the width limit before starting a war.
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>>680908
>all alerts ignored
>500 pp
>not using command points
>no airplanes in sight
>tank divisions untrained
>tank armor below enemy infantry piercing
>no frontline assignment for planning bonus
>killing his own tanks because he doesn't understand supply

You're ignoring practically all game mechanics. You just select a bunch of tanks and send them across the enemy country. Why the fuck do you even play this kind of game??? You even installed mods. What the fuck is going on inside your head?
>>
>>681181
Bonus does almost nothing, only good for wasting manpower
>>
>>681120
Widt was 20 and i was fueld yp, arleast 1 years worth stocked up
>>
>>681181
kek
>>
>>681181
>dude just play optimally even if you're clearly new to the game
>dude just understand supply which is not remotely explained in the game
naturally you're an anime posting cretin
>>
>>681181
Also the allies gad 5k planes total i had 3k so i should deploy so they can get wiped out?
>>
>>681246
>refuses to engage with game mechanics
>instantly throws a fit for his 4chan friends because his SUPER EPIC GROSS GERMANIUM SPEED TANKS can't instantly annihilate weak french subhuman divisions with no support or consideration of supply.
>>
>>681265
In vanilla i can beat the allies bij 1940 solo with less then 20k casualties, however i cant fight the soviets since moving a single division and putting same they have at the border destroys supply
>>
>>681265
>dude just engage with mechanics you don't know and the game don't explain
any non-autist would just have pointed out what the problem in the attack was and what to do to fix it.
>>
>>681282
>any non-autist would just have pointed out what the problem in the attack was and what to do to fix it
this anon already did>>681181
I really don't understand the point of your thread, you said the game was retarded but when every other anon says its actually just you who's retarded you start crying and pissing your pants, curious.
>>
>>681312
the autist was just being autistic, what the fuck does alerts have to do with the battle performance of the tanks? command points are only for promoting generals to field marshals which he doesn't need, political power does nothing if he already employed the dudes that boost combat stats, airplanes gets btfo in an instant due to allied fighters being present in vast numbers. none of that autistic shit helps. you realize there's a reason you're still a virgin in your 30's right? maybe if you weren't such a repulsive little bitch then things would have gone different for you.
>>
>>681329
This, i presume troops havesupplies wich after a while needs to be re filled, they have too many planes so no need to waste them
>>
>>681329
He's not producing military equipment at the capacity he could be, CP can give some epic bonuses in battle if he actually chooses to acknowledge their existence. He also isn't researching, which just shows again he's a brainlet who obviously doesn't have a long term plan here. Even his outnumbered airforce could crush the allies' trash in '40 if you just stay on top of your focuses and research. This kid needs at least 500 more hours before hes allowed to complain, and you need to kill yourself for being so autistic
>>
>>681350
I own no DLC , i was also playing fyhrerreich who gives tons of pp, and resaerch was open, why you triggered?
>>
>>681350
>CP can give some epic bonuses in battle if he actually chooses to acknowledge their existence
wrong, that's for waking the tiger only. what dumb autist would assume that a new player has all the DLC?
>obviously doesn't have a long term plan here
yeah wow a new guy trying to learn a complicated game doesn't have a plan for what he will do after he won the war he doesn't know how to win, damn what an idiot am I right.
>>
>>681329
>your an autist
>proceeds to sperg out because all advise is actually a personal insult
I'm not even him but even if those alerts had nothing to do with the battle (they do) it still shows how you are playing like fucking garbage. If you didn't want the thread to be so insulting towards you in their advise maybe you shouldn't have started it with a bunch of insults. Your such a retarded little pissbaby, exactly the kind of person I would imagine actually getting mad at such a simple game like goy4 and then making a dogshit whining thread to his 4chan """friends""" kek
>>
>>681367
>a complicated game
>hoi4
>complicated
lol
>damn what an idiot am I right
yea lol
>>
>>681370
>the game isn't complicated because I put 1000s of hours into it
autists never change
>>
>>680908

Anon what the fuck are you doing

>Spamming light tank divisions
>16 light tank divisions on ONE tile
>Why are your light tanks 16 width
>Why are you attacking over a river
>Where is the front line, where is your infantry
>Why don't you have any planes, why does the enemy have air superiority
>Why do you have so many notifications
>Why do you have so much political power

Anon literally what you did is just make a bunch of shitty lightly armored small light tank divisions and right click them deep into enemy territory and caused them to run out of supplies, what the fuck did you think was going to happen? Did you think the game should reward you for doing this? Is this how you think the game SHOULD work?

I can't see what division template your tanks are but I'm sure they aren't very good.

Next time, consolidate those 16 divisions into fewer, 40 width divisions, get air superiority, and deliberately use those tanks to create encirclements of the enemy, starting from your front line of infantry. Nigga try a fucking double envelopment with 2 stacks of tanks.

Also sorry to say light tanks are shit don't make them
>>
>>681381
>Spamming light tank divisions
nothing wrong with that when frogs only have shitty inf
>Why are your light tanks 16 width
>Why are you attacking over a river
wrong on both, he's defending over a river and the general's tactic has reduced combat width temporarily
>Is this how you think the game SHOULD work?
it's exactly what the nazis did so if the game was aiming for realism then it should work that way, yes.
>>
>>681181
works in darkest hour
>>
>>681377
300 hours since I got it in summer of 2016 actually. In my first and only historical vanilla game I steamrolled the entire world. This isn't me boasting or something hoi4 is just a very straight forward game.
>>
>>681388
If it was realistic then frogs would have superior tanks.
>>
>>681388
What Nazis did was a fluke and now we have to give France minus gorillion combat effectiveness to simulate that in every game.
>>
>>681399
damn you must get all the pussy. even this being true doesn't change that the game isn't very good at conveying how to fix a problem like being supply cockblocked.
>>
>>681388

This has to be bait, no the Nazis did not snake little itty bitty light tank divisions all the way down to Vichy by themselves and then get butt blasted when they had 16 tank divisions consisting of at least 9600 light tanks in one 5 square KM area on the outskirts of Nevers run out of supplies.

The main time anything resembling that happened was the tank rush to encircle the British and French troops in the Benelux which resulted in Dunkirk which did outstretch supplies but barely worked.

Also light tanks are indeed bad, they get pierced by support AA guns.

>>680908
>>681381

Also OP I spent over 9000 hours in MS paint to tell you how to use tanks properly. All you have to do is do encirclements using double envelopments or against terrain (just like Dunkirk)
>>
>>681181
>tank armor below enemy infantry piercing
Data like this should be hidden honestly.
>>
>>681388
This, i encircled them but keep running out of supply, its why i cant encircle more
>>
OP if you are in this thread still, I will tell you why your light tanks did not do good and why you are having a bad time and how to do better without making fun of you.

Tank divisions in HoI4 can feel finnicky at first. Sometimes it can feel like they just aren't "working", other times they can just annihilate everything in front of them.

Why your tanks were having a bad time:
>They are light tanks which simply don't have insane stats. They have low armor which can be easily pierced.
>Your templates are too small; you want to concentrate divisions to be as big as possible (40 width) on the offensive due to the way the game rolls attack / defense figures in combat.
>Tanks have low org so they can't stay in combat long and de-orged units die fast. Have at least 30 org in your tank divisions provided by motorized infantry
>Air superiority is *critical* in HOI4 as it confers you big stat buffs, gives enemy divisions big stat maluses (decreasing defense + breakthrough), and CAS damage to HP + ORG is very high (it ignores terrain and armor)
>It also looks like these tanks might be encircled? I can't see in your screenshot. Your tanks are way deep in enemy territory beyond your front line. Don't attack like this, it is a bad idea, you can get very easily encircled and supply gets bottlenecked. Check supply map-mode, tl;dr supply flows easier through wide fronts.
>You have no planning bonus from not using any of the front line / offensive order mechanics. You can still micro / right click with this and keep the bonus.

Here's what to do next time:
>Go 40 width, something like 12 tanks, 8 motorized
>Use Med Tanks for huge stats and armor vs. infantry
>Get air superiority with fighters and have CAS
>Have fuel and supplies by *not* outrunning your front line
>Use front lines / planning to get the bonus
>Do double envelopments from an infantry front line like >>681406 image. When you have destroyed enough divs, just do a wide front offensive with your infantry.
>>
>>681181
based post
>>
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>>681430
i encirceld their army, they were encirceld not me

the a.i will always leaf front open if i mak encriclemnts thsu allowign enemies to encircle me, so i have to do everything manually for example here
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and for those who doubt me i can win, it's just i dont trust the A.I to rape my frontline allowing enemeis to freely walk in
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>>681477

bro are you having a stroke

also it looks like you have this in the bag, just stop controlling all your tanks in one giant stack and right clicking them. just nab paris and draw a spearhead order to dieppe and then clean up that gigantic pocket you have all the way up through benelux.

your problem seems to be you just way outstretch your front line before cleaning up your pockets brother.

The ai wont leave the front line open if you've set it up right btw. either you dont have enough troops or you need to fix the front lines to cover the whole front or you just need to give them a few days to shuffle around.
>>
>>681477
>>681481
please seek therapy
>>
>>681483
yeah thats what i meant, i dont stack them i send them along a path wich 1 division covering a tile encircelign them, but then suddenly they get the red skull and go 4KM/ph
>>681484
why?
>>
>>681489

Dude please you're frustrating me, listen to any of the other comments in this thread. STOP trying to do this 'sneaky snake' strategy, it's why you are getting supply issues, do bite-size encirclements and then close the pocket, re-consolidate the front line, and then do more encirclements. You can do the snake thing when you've eaten most of the enemy divs and then you can just run wild to all the victory points.

Like, look here >>681477 why are you taking this long path around Paris to Orleans to Le Havre? Just go to Paris, draw a "spearhead" order to Le Havre so you dont have to micro, close the gigantic encirclement with your tanks and your infantry, and then you can literally battle plan your entire army through France to win.

I don't get what you don't get here. That at some point when you do this little twisty road of light tanks you run out of supplies? OK? Sorry?
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>>681496
Because if i do draw that atleast 3 random divisions wiol be destroyed
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>>681500

??????????????

why the fuck cant you make sense or spell?
>>
OP is like the living embodiment of “biting off more than you can chew” and is confused as to why he’s choking.
>>
This thread is a travesty
>op sucks ass at the game
>anons give outpouring of advice of all the things he is doing wrong
>op ignores all of it, responds to none of it, and acts combative and dense as fuck
>defends his ‘strategy’ even as it clearly doesn’t work

Guys he just doesn’t have the IQ to play the game lol
>>
>>681510
They make shit excyses for bad game design
>>
>>681430
>>681477
The big advantage of light tanks is their speed, so in SP it's not necessarily bad to use them. Just have to be aware they don't have the sheer power of mediums or heavies.
>>
>>681527
Light tanks for western front, mediums for the east, what is the ideal amount of medium divisions to have?
>>
>>681519

>You can't stack infinite tank divisions on a single province deep behind enemy lines with only a one province wide supply route without suffering penalties
>ogm tihs is bawd gaem designgn wtf

uninstall, log off, neck yourself
>>
>>681246
I didn't know this quirk about the game either until I watched a lengthy video on it:
>Supply is dictated by your infrastructure level in a certain area and it comes from your capital
>The higher the level of infrastructure in your capital, the further your supply lines will reach
>You also need to extend them to the specific areas you're intending to invade in addition to having the correct economic output to supply your frontline
It's autistic but balanced
>>
>>681510
OP is based, he's ignoring literally everything and still doing okay. Probably speaks more about the game itself.
>>
>>681559

I would add to this just to make sure it's clear for new players of the game

1. Like anon mentioned supply originates from your capitol city and travels in a path to your troops (turn on supply map mode and it will literally show you the path the supplies are taking).
2. However, your troops ALSO get an amount of 'local supply' from the STATE you are in. This comes from the victory points in the state. So, if you control the VP's (cities) in the state your troops are in / near, they get more local supply too.
3. Supply travels using Infrastructure. More infrastructure = more supplies get from your capitol to the front. There can be bottlenecks in this path so check the map mode if your troops are in low supply. (Supplies obviously also go through ports which can be upgraded to get more supplies via convoys).

So what does this mean if you want your troops to have good supply?
1. High infra from your capitol to your troops on the supply path, including ports if across water
2. If your troops are in enemy country, you need to be capturing VP's (cities) on the path there so you're getting local supply

So here is what OP is not understanding: By doing his super-deep hyper-narrow front light-tank blitz, he is basically getting in a situation where he's not getting any local supply (do not control any of the city VP's near his tanks), and he isn't getting supplies from his capitol because his front-line is so thin the supplies aren't getting through.

For whatever reason OP refuses to 1. Close his encirclements and 2. Create a wider front with his infantry.
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ive never seen someone get filtered this hard by fucking HOI4
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>>681581
If i encircle tgem the infabtry finishes them off until they are dead, send infantry to re make the front line, collect all tanks in 1 tile and restart the process, but i tought infrastructure only boosted speed for divisions
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>>681589

if what you're saying is that you make encirclements with the tanks, then use your infantry on the front line to close the encirclement, get the infantry re-distributed on the front, and then repeat that process, then well done you have solved HoI4 and basically know how to play now.

The issue you were having is that your tank encirclements were simply going too deep in enemy territory, with too small tank division templates (btw what are your tank templates? you should be trying to do like 12 tanks 8 motorized infantry), without air superiority, and too many tanks on one tile, and you were getting supply issues and getting maymayed.

So all you have to do, is make smaller encirclements with better templates and less division stacking. What you were doing here >>681481 should work fine.


So are you happy now OP? Did we figure out the problem?

Also unironically are you drunk?
>>
>>681592
>>681589

Sorry I meant >>681477 . But also FYI western europe infrastructure should be plenty high to do what you're doing. You're just putting too many tanks on one tile and going too deep.
>>
>>681592
>Also unironically are you drunk?
no, just retarded and/or underage
>>
>>681592
My tank division for the west are usually 4 motorized 4 light and 2 support
>>681600
You talking to a mirror?
>>
>>681604

2 support what? What width are those? 16?

Those tank divisions are too small. MINIMUM you should be doing 6 tanks / 4 motorized, but you really should be making 40 width tanks. The way the game calculates attack and defense roles though really favors larger divisions. So something like 12 tank and eight mot is better. To make sure that it’s clear, two divisions of five tanks each is worse than one division of 10 tanks even if the two tanks are attacking at the same time. This is because how the game calculates attack rolls and damage. You do more damage because the combined attack is a higher value in excess of the enemies defense.
>>
>>681608
Artilerry and motorized recon, for line infantry i usually get 6 inf support artilery suport anti air suport anti tank, engineer. For pushing infantry i use 8 inf 2 art, support art,anti air, cav recon
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>>680908
>THIS MEANS YOUR VERY FAST LIGHT TANKS WILL NOW MOVE AT THE SPEED OF YOUR INFANTRY
you're right
they shouldn't work at all
how do you move a 50 ton tank without any fuel for the engine?
>>
>>681620
There is fuel, but a magic red skull makes it dissapear overnight
>>
>>681623
how are you gonna get that fuel all the way through that shaky ass line begging to get constantly raided and shelled to the huge amount of tanks you have ammased there?
>>
>>681632
They carry it with them
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>>681623

Come on man how can you still be complaining about supply and attrition after all we’ve learned tonight
>>
>>681388
> it's exactly what the nazis did

bruh

They used CAS, inf, motorised and armour units.

Not just '16 armour at once'
>>
>>681633
do you have any idea how much fuel that is? it's carried in supply trucks not strapped on the back of tanks
>>
>>681633
what happens when they use it up?
>>
>>681640
What are fuel trucks?
>>
>>681645
They hold their position until new fuel arrive
>>
>>681648
so then it makes sense that they cant move, right?
>>
>>681649
Yes, but they have more fuel that can go beyond 3 hours 2-3 days worth
>>
>>681649

Is he finally having a breakthrough? Did he finally grasp that no supply = no fuel = his tanks wont move?
>>
I am officially crowning this the worst thread in /vst/'s history. May god have mercy on our souls.
>>
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>>681618

>6INF with Support AA,AT,ART,ENG
>8INF 2ART AA,ART,RECON
>4ARM 4MOT

Anon these are not good designs. They are too small and are not following the combat width of the game. Your divisions should have a combat width of 10 (garrison divs only), 20, or 40.

Also its not useful to add support AT because it doesn't give enough piercing on its own, its wasted IC.

Try these:

Line Infantry: 10 INF, supporting: ART, AA, ENG
Pushing Infantry: 14INF 4 ART, Supporting: ART, AA, ENG, LOG
Tanks: 12ARM, 8 MOT, Support LOG, AA, SIG
>>
>>681681
>Also its not useful to add support AT because it doesn't give enough piercing on its own, its wasted IC.
What the hell are you talking about?
>>
>>681665
we JUST established that the tanks are OUT of fuel. by YOUR admission they must then sit still. unless you improve your supply lines, more fuel CANNOT be brought to the tanks. therefore they cannot move
>>
>>681691
They should not be out of fuel, they just left their position
>>
>>681688

What the hell are YOU talking about?

Adding a mere AT support company to a pure infantry division doesn't add enough piercing to pierce medium tank divisions. A bog-standard 12-8 medium tank division will have 42 armor in 1939 and 56 armor in 41. A 10-0 infantry template with 1939 tech and a support AT company has 38 piercing. Piercing is basically binary in HoI4 (until the next patch), so it doesn't pierce and so it's basically useless except for hard attack rolls, which are pointless because why would you attack a medium tank with an infantry division. The only thing it can pierce are light tank divisions. But, because light tanks have so little armor, support anti-air can do that as well, meaning AA does that job better and do other things too.

Moreover, why would you waste all the IC fielding barely any piercing and hard attack to every single infantry division? That's like 10 military factories you could be putting on CAS. If you need an AT infantry division, that can attack and pierce and damage big tank divisions, you need to put like 2-4 AT guns in it.
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>>681708
Otters?
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>>681718
yes
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>>681181
this is all true but almost all of this is MP autism, especially the training part, so basically you're a faggot
>>
>>680908
Looking at that childish map gore makes me puke. Play hoi3 instead.
>>
Holy shirt, the stupidity of the people on this website is frightening, even more so that OP will inevitably drop the game because he can't figure out a fucking paradox game of all things and then go into other threads to talk about hoi4 is terrible. For fucks sake its only been explained a hundred times how supply works, how you have none of it and why your tanks aren't moving. What 3rd world African shithole did you come from to make this garbage thread? What kind of dumb nigger IQ do you have to suck at paradox's simplest map game even after the whole thread told you your problems?
>>
>>681832
that game sucks tho
>>
>>681839
The supply system is not logical
>>
Holy shit this thread is hilarious. Thanks OP you made my day.
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>>682074
They are all seething because they cant understand logic
>>
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>everyone is falling for the same bait thread over and over again
>>
>>680908
There is LITERALLY no reason to use light tanks due to the way stats work.
speed has no effect in combat. there is no benefit to having smaller tanks as there is no reload stat or size stat or anything like it. A superheavy tank will be just as fast, do damage as frequently, and have just as many in the battle as a light tank. There is no terrain that can't support different sized tanks.
on top of that, because battles are straight stat vs stat, anything with low stats(light tanks) is a waste of space. One 40 width division with very high stats will beat 4 10 width divisions with average stats every single time.

It's a shitty system.
never use anything smaller than mediums. if you need speed use motorized or mechanized.
>>
>>682083
They are good for in weatern euroe, cheap fast and toygher tyen allied infantry
>>
You need a really high IQ to understand HOI4
>>
>>681393
based
>>
>>680908
All these kids ITT thinking they know shit but moment they hop on something legit like combat mission or SE they get stomp'd back into yesterday.

Lmao imagine thinking because you played hearts of plastic 4 you actually are adept on military strategy.

Thank god for SE, its literally zoomer repellant
>>
>>682054
what supply system?
Dominions 5 has a better logi system and its a fuckin fantasy game! lmao
>>
>>682111
I agree, the supply system in hoi4 makes no sense
>>
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i am goign to invade the soviet union in 6 months game tiem il post my templates, first one will be for my medium tanks
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my line infantry
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this will be used for my offensive infantry, so what do you guys think?
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>>681841
filtered by an OOB, classic.
>>
>>681409
>Data like this should be hidden honestly.
You think any armor division/army commander wouldn't notice that his tanks are either A)Shot to pieces or B) Enemy anti-tank weaponry is just bouncing off the armor of his tanks. And then report that to higher levels.
>>
>>681361
Fuherreich also has turbochad france.
>>
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here it is againt, i was able to punch trough, 2 divisions hodl everythign in palce until more of their reinforcements arrived, all 10 infastructure
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>>682132
>>682134
>>682135
extremely based
>>
>>682167
>132/120 width
>25 divisions in one tile attacking in one direction
>>
>1005 pp now
He is even playing at lowest difficulty + maximum country boost on Germany. That's why he can even have that many tanks and still win easily, despite his room temperature iq.
>>
>>682167
You don't need 20+ divisions in one province since they probably won't ever get involved in battle, spread them out.
>>
>>682195
If i dont, they wont push faster the number goes up higher if i put more troops on attack
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>>682203
>they wont push faster the number goes up higher if i put more troops on attack
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>It took me this long to realize OP was a troll the entire time
>>
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>>680908
This is the best bait I've seen on this board. The fact that so many people are falling for it is a testament to your skill
>>
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>>682237

I wrote like 5 long replies in this thread and admit I got utterly butt blasted and was successfully trol faced
>>
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OPhere: all peopel criticising me are retarded, i tried it your way only thing i got was casualties, when i did it my way i won. Please learn the game before you all comment
>>
top tier trolling, congratulations.

I particularly appreciated the Nazi flag mod, really added to the experience.
>>
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nevermind, you guys were right
>>
>>682377

>activeer windows
>>
>>682381
?
>>
>>680908
Light tanks are not worth using, unless its the 1943+ models, they get shredded by artillery.
>>
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>>682377
please no more, my sides cant take it
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>>682409
no they fucking crush enemy infantry
>>
is there a good beginner guide to learn to play and have fun? I don't know the fuck i'm doing at all and get crused all the time and the in-game tutorial sucks.
>>
>>682431
You could watch me play on twitch.
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>>682433
what's your twitch
>>
>>682431

For fun I've actually wanted to make a youtube tutorial for HoI4 that actually just tells people what they need to know as opposed to a 2 hour video explaining every mechanic without any context for them. maybe ill make it for you anon
>>
>>682431
For naval combat i'd reccomend
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLGeVlMQOfo
For the rest check the HOI4 wiki while playing
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>>682377
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>>682447
please do it anon.
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>>682377
activate your windows, put a crack or something.
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>>682455
i have frondlines, but i remove them when i start to ush, otherwise shit ai will leave spotso pen because it cant diverge troops for nthe front to a pocket it will abandone the entire front, also the soviets were encircled here
>>682487
why? i'm using the very first version, updates all disabled etc comfy as can be
>>
>>681406
Beautiful representation of France
>>
how do i spam shit as ussr? pls help.
>>
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kino thread
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>>682540
Go war econoy build factories
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>>682540
Alao build inf, spam infrastrucrure, let germany waste its manpower on you
>>
>>682540

go stalin constitution and socialist realism to get the early pp to get early war economy, free trade policy, and the stability advisor and the civilian factory advisor asap

research dispersed industry and construction tech every time <1 year ahead of time

spam civilian factories until jan 1 1939, beginning with highest infra areas

in 1939 begin spamming military factories like there is no tomorrow

put them on whatever equipment is needed for whatever army you want to build. build 360 enemy at the gates pleb infantry divisions. build 120 infantry divisions and 20 super-maxxed heavy tank nuclear fuck you divisions. build 240 infantry stacked infantry divisions with artillery and anti tank and have a big ass airforce of fighters.

whatever you want man
>>
>>682610
This
>>
>>682409
if you do an early war they can encircle the enemy easy, otherwise you are right
>>
>>681367
>hoi4
>complicated
u legit tard bruh
>>
>>682973
>just a trillion different numbers hidden in various menus you have to keep track of
>nah that's not complicated bro, trust me I put tons of hours into it already, works for me bro
>>
>>683301
This
>>
>>683301
This goes for all paradox vidya but convoluted bullshit =/= complexity.

Yeah yeah "complex" and "complicated" are different words but they've been used interchangably in vidya discussions.
>>
>>683301
yeah
>>
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for the retards in this thread who said no, snaking works, look at this a single snake line and the entire caucusus oil is mine
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and look waht snaking got me
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>>683351
yes the AI is retarded and a toddler can win singleplayer as Germany, congratulations
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>>683352
>>
>>683352
Yet supply still makea no sense
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>>683491
Aint the next update gonna redo supply so it's actually supplies? Just taking the fuel system for tanks and then doing stuff like munitions with it?
>>
>>683357
We found it Reddit!
>>
>>681246
Maybe don't throw a bitchfit if you haven't played long enough to understand the mechanics at least mostly.

The real fuckup of HoI4 is the frontline/offensive line mechanics, anyway. Total garbage implementation.
>>
>>683537
Found what?
>>
>Putting this much effort into trolling a niche board when clearly nobody is buying your bullshit
Shame on you, anon.
Shame.
>>
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>>682610
thanks
>>
how do i stop germans shitting on my infra areas?
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>>684020
Anti air and fighters
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>>684020
And a seared bite
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>>681246
HoI4 is a game for complete morons, and all the basic mechanics are very simple to figure out, including supply.
>>
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>>682135
>>682134
>>682132
new meta
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>>681393
based
>>
Holy shit based OP shitting on meta faggots lmfao
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>>685286
should be very simple to explain then. yet you don't.
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>>682610
>>685296
>>682083
>>681697
>>681681
>>681430
>>681406
>>681381
>>681350
I've never played Hearts of Iron 4 before, nor do I intend to, but reading over some of these posts a couple times, I'm kind of struck by how much metagaming there is, how there's a certain very well defined route to every outcome-- if people already know how to beat the game as each country, how each system works, and how the game operates, where is the strategizing or thinking? I get the impression that HoI4 is less like a strategy game and more like a visual novel of focuses and map painting that you watch play out, where the role of the player is to simply fit the right pegs into the right holes, choose the correct techs to research, and watch the numbers play out. What's the appeal of this? Are there any situations that demand critical engagement or thinking? Where's the game?
I'm awfully concerned if my impression - with what limited sources I have - is correct, and the autistic wehraboos who base their personality on this game are actually spending their time doing what I think they're doing.
>>
>>680908
>16 divisions of light tank on one tile
is someone gonna call this retard a retard or what
>>
>>685325
>I get the impression that HoI4 is less like a strategy game and more like a visual novel of focuses and map painting that you watch play out
Congratulations, you figured it out without having to spend 400 hours playing
>>
>>685325
It's only when the odds are super stacked against the player where genuine strategizing take place. After I learned the game, the only parts that were fun was theorizing how to beat insane challenges like very hard endsieg 1945 and most of that takes place before the game is happening.
>>
>>685325
hoi4 has build orders like starcraft does, every paradox game does for armies. It is a simple fact of wargames that there will always simply be a "best" way to design your armies because of how the numbers work out and it can be pretty simple to find with some math. For instance all combat widths (the size of the field of battle) are divisible by 10 up to the number 80, so the only real viable size for divisions is 10, 20 and 40. In the new DLC they are trying to break this meta by making sizes vary by 1's like 52 or 78 or something but within 10 minutes of the announcement everyone already knew what the new meta division size would be with a bit of math, I think its 23 or something. This one example is representative of pretty much all hoi4. Its easy to "solve" the game divisions are just 2 math problems going at it and the higher number wins unlike say starcraft where each unit is a 3d model, doesn't use a ridged tile system and as a lot of room for micro.
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>>685400
In Shogun 2, each unit fulfils a particular niche within a role and interacts with one another in different ways, without having anything be necessarily better than one another. Light cavalry's niche is harassing, yari cavalry is for shock, and katana cavalry is for sustained melee-- each of these possess the role of cavalry, but does so in a unique way such that there is no perfect army build, for everything is a different tool within a set or larger category, which the player uses creatively to achieve their ends relative to a great variety of scenarios. Whilst one could bring up that Shogun 2 is a radically different game, the same principle is applied to Starcraft, and thus I do not understand why it could not extend to hoi4
>>
>>685324
Just look at the supply mapmode, it's obvious. Supply flows from you capital over infrastructure, and is added to local supply from victory points, which is in turn consumed by your units.
>>
>>685325
>the autistic wehraboos who base their personality on this game are actually spending their time doing what I think they're doing
You're entirely correct, Anon.
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>>685340
>>685334
>>685481
thats depressing dude
>>
>>685426
While there may not be an objectively superior army build in all cases, it's definitely the case for Shogun 2 that there are units, army builds and strategies that are better than others. The Shogun 2 MP meta has whittled the game down to a couple of more or less optimal builds and approaches. They aren't really necessary in singleplayer, but that's also the case for HoI4 meta. You can easily succeed in SP with a simple understanding of mechanics and the meta, but an optimal one is required for MP success. Or that's what it looks like anyway, I don't play MP.
I vastly prefer Shogun 2 to HoI4, but I'd be a bit cautious to uphold S2 as some paragon of balance, or as a game with no meta.

>>685483
Yep. If you embrace HoI4 as a visual novel with a very simple wargame on top it's fine, if you deeply and personally identify with it you need help.
>>
>>685325
>there's a certain very well defined route to every outcome
Isn't this the case for any strategy game against AI? You can go look up build orders or strategies on any game and execute them against AIs.
Playing against players things are considerably different.
>>
>>685483
that is unfortunetly tru
>>
I'm just here to say Fuhrerreich is garbage. Next can we have an alternate history set in the Fuhrerreich universe called Reichreich where the Triplice won Le Gross Krieg and you have to stop a team of Aryan fanboys developing a game about it
>>
i cant produce enough with ussr cuz of low production efficiency and i cant create divs cuz theres no enough exp all the time
>>
>>681588
There's like at least one thread every month of someone getting filtered by HOI4
>>
>>685478
tell me why regions are supply limited to the specific values they are.
>>
>>685719
because HOI4 sucks
>>
>>685426
If you played a grand strategy you'd understand. The army tactics you speak of only exist because you fight the tactical battles, imagine playing total war but you auto resolve every battle. What strategy could you possibly use then other than having better numbers than your opponent and choosing when to engage? This is every paradox game and essentially every war game is like that. There is no room for micro inside of battles because battles are just 2 math problems plus rolling dice. It is simply a fact of the genre.
>>
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>>685828
what i understand is that you're playing a shit game in a shit genre, anon
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>>685828
The reason for Paradox games having very boring combat is simple: if the army with the bigger number always wins the AI and moronic players can understand how battles work. You could create a HOI-like grand strategy where movement was more deliberate, battles were more swingy and give both natural and man made terrain greater impact. If that hypothetical game was created by Paradox it would also come with a brain dead AI that tried to win by throwing shit at the wall and this board would have lots of threads like this where players complain they do not comprehend the game mechanics.
>>
>>685719
Supply zones have a supply limit that's based on the infrastructure in the states in the zone (I don't know the exact formula, I think it's based on the total sum between all of them). Supply zones push most of their excess supplies to the next zones where there is a path to an army or populated airbase, but can't push more supplies than its cap, so low infrastructure areas can be bottlenecks. If supplies have to go through the sea they'll use the port level of the shipping and receiving port to determine how much supply can be shipped, and pull in convoys to ship them.

Apparently the next major patch is adding train lines to ship supplies so this information is probably going to be outdated.
>>
>>685325
Min Maxing is a thing present in ever game, that's 50% of the reason why most games arent fun anymore, because tards just go straight to google and search how to cheese and beat the game.
>>
>>683351
Now try winning as Soviet Union or Japan.
>>
>>681393
based
>>
>>685325
I'd argue it's not this dull if you play against Expert AI or Human plays who are all playing the right strategies and will require some thought and work to defeat. A lot of the game is 'planning' for the war itself. Like 3 hours or so of planning just for the big war to start and your plans to be actualized very fast and in minutes, hours happen.

But like yea you can dumb it down to a strawman of what the game is at the most basic level sure. Hopefully this new dlc shakes things up and moves away from the visual novel gameplay.
>>
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bros help
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>>685325
First of all there is multiplayer where while there is a meta you have to be a lot more creative and its less predictable.

Second of all unironically it is fun to get to this autistic place with the game. i didnt know any of this shit starting out, i had to figure this stuff out, and optimizing spreadsheet games scratches my autism itch and I find it enjoyable.

Third, yeah, when you learn how the machine runs under the hood it can make playing as majors acting historically too easy (e.g. Germany beating the Allies + USSR), but you can play other ways and unconventional ways or RP to have more fun. It's a GSG game

Fourth, some of those posts aren't rail-roady they are just like, advice on how to play the game in general. It's probably good advice in a ww2 game to tell people to make airplanes and use tanks to get double envelopments. And some of the other posts are just like good advice on the game mechanics - not wasting tons of industry to build support AT in every division is just good advice, not even super metagaming (even if it does require explanation of STATS to make sense)
>>
>>685426
well, they are different games, but even in hoi4 there are definitely different unit niches and roles. you use one infantry template to hold the front line. you use another infantry template with lots of artillery to attack. you use tanks and motorized to break enemy front lines and encircle their troops. you use fighters to get air superiority and CAS to bomb their tanks.
>>
>>681086
I found the most success with heavy fighters. If you just set them on the interception mission they should demolish the Allied air force and your CAS should do their job. The reason I take heavies over light fighters is because Germany gets a research bonus for them from the air innovations focuses. So you can roll heavy fighter 2s in like 1938 and by the time you invade you would have replaced all of them.
CAS is amazing in this game
>>
>>686326
>only 4 factories on fighters
ngmi
>>
>>680908
You need to get the armored pact focus to push out medium/heavy tanks early. I tried to do light tanks only my first Germany game and failed the blitzkrieg as well.
>>
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look at this. my side has 142 supply and enemy side has 80 supply. I move the tanks one step into enemy territory and suddenly the supply is only 15 and all the tanks are out of fuel.
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>>686829
there's the lmao15supply that the game tricked me into thinking was gonna be at least 80
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>>686830
enemies got 80.
>>
>>686829
>>686830
>>686833
Congratulations on discovering that a region based supply system produces wonky results when you have just one province in a region. If you actually read the tool tips you can figure out why this is happening. As a general rule you should not expect to get the same level of supply as your enemy. The supplies sent from your capital do not travel the same route as the supplies sent from the enemy capital.
>>
>>686833
The enemy has victory points in that state, you can see it on the tooltip. Yes it's wonky that moving one province forward kills all your supply, but having 22 tank divisions in one province isn't a good idea anyway.
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>he plays for the wargaming aspect
lmao
>>
>>686902
>If you actually read the tool tips you can figure out why this is happening.
Wrong. It says I get supply equal to 25% of previous infrastructure. Previous infrastructure was maxed out and still only gives 3 supply, which makes no sense.

another thing unrelated to supply is sometimes when I order units to attack and they almost won (number is green and close to 100) the battle just stops and the units don't move, then I have to order them to attack again to actually go and finish and take the province.
>>
this game sucks
>>
>>680908
unrelated question, but hopefully I can get some advice too
any tips for 1v1ing Germany as France? In SP so any weird AI exploiting is cool. Not sure if I should fight them over Rhineland or wait and build up until 1939
No GB, no Italy, no Czechs
>>
>>688296
Extend maginot line either along the Belgian border or on the other side of the river in Picardie. Focus on infantry and anti-air (both static and support) to deal with German air superiority. Spam infantry and don't worry too much about mech/mot/armor except for maybe a few elite divisions for breakthroughs, because you'll mainly just be defending and whittling down the German forces until 1940-41ish. The French navy can be useful to hurt German convoys but just be careful not to use too much fuel.
>>
>>688350
>whittling down the German forces until 1940-41ish
they’ll still outproduce me even if I’m destroying more of their equipment, right? am I just waiting for the Soviets to come in and even the odds?
thanks for the advice though, I’m trying to form the EU then switch to monarchist as a challenge
>>
>>688296
Focus on producing infantry equipment (and potentially artillery & support) to fill up your deficit, drop your tanks, build forts around belgium and italy.

For the german border, there is usually a sweet spot in term of how many troops to put there: enough to never get penetrated, not enough to entirely discourage the retarded AI to attack. It can continuously drain AI forces at a very low cost. Then it's just a matter of playing catch-up.
>>
>>688449
>they’ll still outproduce me even if I’m destroying more of their equipment, right?
A little bit of yes and no. So while in 1939 they'll have far more mil factories than you, your ability to build new ones will far outpace them, and this is down to a few factors. Firstly, Germany really only has access to 2 resources: iron and aluminum. Everything else they lack in significant quantities, making it very difficult for them to build artillery, medium and heavy tanks, mot/mech, and aircraft without importing resources or building refineries (both of which will eat up a lot of their own civilian usage). Secondly, defending and especially defending behind fortifications and rivers, costs much for for the attacker than the defender. Assuming that the German AI keeps trying to attack, every time you successfully defend you're going to be draining a huge amount of their stockpile and depending on the scale of their attacks it could even outpace their production. Thirdly, France will have a lot more room to grow than Germany past 1939. Due to the aforemention civ shortage for the Germans, they usually struggle with making full use of their construction capabilities and due to their earlier buildup don't have many available building slots in their states. France on the other hand often has many more slots (including in their own colonies) and can make better use of their civs. On top of that, non-fascist nations typically have a much easier time activating total mobilization and women in the workplace, which gives you a lot of civs without needing to increase your conscription laws (which normally impairs production efficiency), as well as free trade which increases construction speed. So assuming you balance out your construction queue well in the early game, by 1940/41 you should be able to match the Germans production-wise, at which point it's just a matter of winning your battles and pushing them back.
>>
>>687268
Clearly I was wrong to assume you could comprehend the tool tip by reading it. The tool tip says you get 1.66 local supply. It also says you control 16.6% of the provinces of the incoming edge of the supply region. That means you get 16.6% of the supplies you would get, if you controlled the whole incoming edge.
>>
>>681399
I'm sure it was a very nice guide you read anon and you are very smart for doing that.
>>
>>688557
I do control the whole "incoming edge". my supplies are coming 100¤ from the side where my units are and not from the side where the enemy is.
>>
>>688937
>>688628
>>688557
supply syste mis jsut shit thaths it all there is to it
>>
>>689282
the system isn't good but retards who can't deal with it and put 22 tank divisions in one tile are also just retarded
>>
>>689319
no its jsut bad itsl ogical to snake
>>
>>689564
*logical
>>
>>689564
*Just
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>>680908
>do literally everything wrong
>still somewhat succeeding
Jesus hoi4 is so bad
>>
>>689564
it’s*
>>
>>689989
Its
>>
>>680908
paracuck has NEVER gotten tactics down because battles are just dice rolls on HP bars.

strategy without tactics is boring as fuck and its why map painting is a stupid hobby that only works as RP
>>
>>690508
this, if you want to experience the average paradox game, go to a casino, oyu will have the same experience
>>
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>that pic
lmao git gud
First dont use light tanks second let them spread out lmfao
>>
>>685325
>I get the impression that HoI4 is less like a strategy game and more like a visual novel of focuses and map painting that you watch play out, where the role of the player is to simply fit the right pegs into the right holes, choose the correct techs to research, and watch the numbers play out.
Correct

>What's the appeal of this?
There are a few 8/10 mods for this 2/10 game
>>
>>681259
I'll give you some tips for air.
ALWAYS use aa (support aa works perfectly fine in single player)
As Germany I always have 15 factories on fighters
If the enemy beats you in the air war do a guerilla air campaign (Stop engaging with your fighters so they put those fighters away then engage till they beat you again, rinse and repeat till they dont have cas/fighters anymore. I learned it fighting several 10k fighters uks)
Watch out with the supply
Also if you don't kill a quartor of the french army in the rhineland pocket THE GAME MOUTHFEEDS YOU you should deinstall the game.
>>
hoi4 is a shit game, you're a faggot for playing it
>>
>>690604
>don't use light tanks vs frogs
wrong. lights work fine vs frogs.
>>
>>690412
No, the correct spelling is 'it's'. 'It's' is a contraction of "it is" which is the way the previous post was using it. 'Its' is merely a possessive noun but there was no possession in that phrase. Therefore, 'it's' is the correct spelling.
>>
>>688296

The easiest way is to do the Big Entente meme where you get the Germans to fight you, the Poles, and the Czechs at the same time, but you said you don't want to do that so the other way is basically the "Big Maginot" (If you are playing semi-historically Democratic France).

I recommend going Popular Front for the factories (you'll be building so many mils you'll need the free Civs for consumer goods), rushing Strengthen Government and the other ones to remove your big maluses to manpower and stuff, then rushing for Extend the Maginot. Focus very heavily on military factories, like only 6 months of Civs.

Production and templates: Focus heavily on solid defensive infantry divisions, you can't compete on air and tanks. You'll want two divisions probably - a just straight 10-0 for the Maginot and to help fill the line cheaply on the Alps and in Benelux, but for your main guys you'll need good AA and AT in those divisions so something like 8INF-1AA-1ART with support AT and ENG (and ART and AA too if you can afford it).

Then you let them suicide against you for a while, the AI will stop attacking if it gets too cucked but you can bait them by moving some units off the front line then reinforcing the battles. Then you have to micro to get encirclements to get to Berlin.

Another fun way is rush Napoleon France and conquer Benelux and UK and then merk Germany but that's a separate guide.
>>
>>690775
There is no napoleonic france in the focus tree
>>
>>690775
As I said earlier in thread I’m going for monarchist EU (Universal Monarchy I think it’s called) so I can only go down the Leagues branch and have to wait until Germany is defeated to go Monarchist (only democratic can form the EU)
Leagues branch means no Entente, and for me to full annex the benelux UK has to be non-democratic so no one else joins the war. It’s just me vs Germany
Thanks for the division design tips, sounds like it’ll be micro hell to advance but winnable
>>
>>681477
>OP can barely type

Am I in a bait thread...?
>>
>>691139
yes. you and the rest of the hoispergs got baited.
>>
>>691139
no i made htis thread to ask why thus reterded shit was in thfe gham
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>>681477
The advantage of the light tanks is speed. Spread out and if there is an obstacle, go around it. If you want to capture less land and keep your tanks in a closer area to fight infantry, use mediums.
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>>680908
>16divs in 1 tile
>they are not even 40 width
filtered by a map game lol
>>
>>691092
pirate the DLC mouthbreather
>>
>>685325
You're correct, I use modded hoi4 to do map painting as my autistic hobby but other than that the game is absolute garbage, there's no diplomacy, there's no thinking, the base game is just maths and not even the cool type
>>
>>692155
Why? All they do is shir up the game performance
>>
>ITT grognards falling for low quality bait
>>
>>692256
vanilla runs perfectly fine for me, only slows down around '43, get a better cpu
>>
>>692267
It takes an hour for me to get to 39
>>
>>680908
Git Gud and come back to re ality

Every try driving a tank? Or a corolla?

Now try fucking driving it past a slightly wet meadow

GET IT?
>>
The only correct way to conquer russia is to use cavalry outside urban areas and only use tanks to break heavy urban defenses. the long distances are to be covered by animals who are used to it, not metal abominations which use non existent oil and are bogged down by 2 or three trees
>>
>>681246
Usually I'd shit on you like the others in this thread, but I recently got back into playing Total War after only really playing Parakeks GSG's for the past several years, and the tutorials in that series explain things so much clearer than anything in any of the Paradox games that it's not surprising that eventually some new player will not know what the fuck to do in them, even if they're playing the easiest one (HOI4). The usual workaround people suggest is to watch YouTube tutorials, but to me a suggestion like that is a failure of game design. Sure, you can find plenty of tutorials for HOI4, but once you move to a different game you're not guaranteed to have that safety blanket anymore. The newer Paradox games all have some tutorials on YouTube, but for anything older than Victoria 2 you're fucked. I still don't know how to play Darkest Hour because the in-game tutorial doesn't really explain how to do your unit compositions (AFAIK only EU3 out of all the Paradox games ever gave any kind of hint as to what kind of units to build). Victoria 2 has good YouTube tutorials now, but I've been playing since before A House Divided came out and back then people will just tell you to never bother with the Trade tab for example because no one knew what the fuck was going on in it since no YouTube videos existed about it to make up for the lack of explanation in the game's tutorials. Or how for years everyone would tell you to make your unit composition be 4 INF 4 ART 1 HUS 1 ENG and it was this rigid rule until someone really analyzed the game because none of this shit is explained in the game and realized you can put more inf and arty in if you wanted.
>>
>>685325
>I'm kind of struck by how much metagaming there is
My absolute favorite part about HOI4 is how Paradox spent all this time during the game's initial development to make the battle plan system so that newcomers could just draw arrows telling units where to go and wouldn't have to micromanage every unit and get overwhelmed like the case was with HOI3, but then two DLC's later everyone was micromanaging units anyway and just used one part of the battle plan system to abuse bonuses because the AI is too stupid to work against an enemy that's not following battle plans, which is why you see people going for JUICY ENCIRCLEMENTS all the time. It's basically devolved into being HOI3 with a particularly bad AI and events that are railroaded so hard they're literally presented as a branching path like you're looking at the cheat sheet to a VN.

>I get the impression that HoI4 is less like a strategy game and more like a visual novel of focuses and map painting that you watch play out
It pretty much is, and we even have mods like The New Order now that "accelerate" this concept to the point where you're not even allowed to declare war on other countries unless the focus tree wills it. I personally really hate the focus tree because it reduces my freedom to do my own strategies like you implied, but the game can't function without it because the emergent gameplay to make WWII happen "naturally" through having the AI do various tasks to complete decisions was taken out in favor of these predetermined paths. Except later on they added decisions back in anyway.
>>
>>680908
Play as simple countries first, understand the mechanics. My advice - Mao's PRC, at first you have nothing to build but very simple divisions, then you get more and more complex shit as the war unfolds and in the end you are fighting Germany or USSR with modern tanks, fleets and nuclear bombs.
>>692472
And this focus tree cancer has spread to Eu4 where if you exile your Trebizond into Ireland it means no more missions for you ever. And Eu4 doesn't have any alternative trees, it's one fucking choiceless rail you have to follow in order to get permanent bonuses. Thanks, Paradox, I've abandoned that game because you hate fun.
>>
>>692547
Commie china is just atrition
>>
>>692472

HOI4's default AI is painfully bad, but what is interesting is that there are multiple mods out there that make the AI competent enough to have fun with. Both the Expert AI mod and also the Total War overhaul mod has reworked AI that makes the AI actually pretty good, tries to do encirclements, is aggressive, makes sensible choices, etc. I honestly think Paradox should just buy these guys out or something or just steal their code

>>692457
This is totally true. For example, the "meta" forever that was suggested online was to have recon because "better tactics" but someone 2 years ago did an analysis and found that the tactics bonuses from recon basically provide no statistically significant advantage in combat because of how often tactics are re-rolled means even a tactics advantage is reset almost immediately, and so the only advantage is the +speed bonus.
>>
>>692915
All paradox a.i are bad, they will not defend their borders but ignore defence and go for your capital
>>
>>692915
Having a meta in a real time strategy game is retatded
>>
>>693880
every game has a meta to some extent.
>>
Genuinely feel kinda bad for all the anons who wrote high-effort advice, but how the fuck did you not immediately realize this is a bait thread?
>>
>>693976
not this bad, especially for a ww2 game
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>>694465
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>>685325
Yes, this is very well known everywhere, it's not called a "map painting game" for anything.
>>
>>680908
>>685325
HoI4 is casualized kiddy crap
>>
>>695699
no shit
>>
>>694465
Is this a bait thread? Nothing in it has been below what you would expect from a HOItard.
>>
>>696194
it isbt
>>
>>696751
isn't*
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>>696194
no
>>
>>696129
Why do HoI 4 threads exist then
>>
>>700122
people want to experience hardships without the hard
>>
>>700122
Many of the people who visit this site are some combination of casual, child and crap.
>>
>>700860
this
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>>700539

>>702003
>>
>>680908
You are the one stacking shit like a mongoloid, you deserve all of this.

You know how germans pushed france? they had a full infantry line on maginot, a combined arms line pushing the northern part of maginot/belgium and a tank force doing the blitzkrieg. They didn't just went into belgium with pure tanks deep into france, they engage french units and push a moderate front from belgium, not as a beeline.
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>>680908
>get into TNO all stoked about re-unifying soviet union and nuking Germania
>accidentally chose Kruschev's Russia
>guess he's gonna be the one nuking Germania then
>the mod kinda just ends right before you get to moscow
>can't even manually justify war goals
a total bummer, the mod did some interesting things but soviets nuking nazis would have been the logical conclusion to the game.
>>
Lmfao you guys are trying to explain how to win the press any button to win game to a dude who's angry because he can't find the any button
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>>685325
>if people already know how to beat the game as each country, how each system works, and how the game operates, where is the strategizing or thinking?
That’s the neat part, you don’t.
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>>703690
It's even worse for Omsk since everything you do is to build up for a massive genocidal war with Germany, which never happens of course.
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>>681120
You're such a fucking idiot lol
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>>703690
You'll just have to wait for TNO2 to come out anon! Once they finish Toolbox Theory and a path for some backwater country, that is. And that's if the dev team doesn't get purge again.
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>>705070
tno is garbage 100%
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>>685325
>I've never played Hearts of Iron 4 before, nor do I intend to, but reading over some of these posts a couple times, I'm kind of struck by how much metagaming there is, how there's a certain very well defined route to every outcome-- if people already know how to beat the game as each country, how each system works, and how the game operates, where is the strategizing or thinking?
How is that different from any popular game?
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>>680908
Enough anons have explained already how fucking idiotic you are with the mechanics of the game, but you also complained about a lack of realism.


Do you really think that in 1940, Germany just crammed 150.000 light tanks through a 15 mile gap all the way from Belgium to Vichy, with no particular orders or planning, while the Luftwaffe did fuck all and that somehow defeated the French?
>>
File deleted.
>>681246
Animefag has some points but the game is awful and doesn't need defending
I don't even see where that infantry is piercing your armour, normally that has a broken shield icon

I also heavily agree it's hilarious that 2 undermanned divisons, attacking across a river, are holding up those 14 reserves
>>706435
See image, you're being that lazy I'm not giving you a witty response
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>>686326
>All those factories on artillery with a 9k surplus
>models not upgraded with 350 army XP
>no heavies
>only 200 factories by late 41
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>>706700
those are around 800 tanks, and yes they did that
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>>707622
>and yes they did that
>t. historically illiterate
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>Anime website
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>>703690
Use the 2nd West Russian War submod
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>>685962
have you considered blowing your head off with a shotgun you insufferable fucking faggot? maybe you and that turbo-manlet volound can spray cum into eachothers mouth about how erudite you are for playing shogun 2
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>>708445
fuck off TNO and its submods are all trash
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>>710509
No.
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game's easy, you just have to be not retarded
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>>710581
giga cringe
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>>681181
imagine being too dumb for baby game hoi4
>>
>>706883
can you tell me how to spam factories if 200 is not enough?
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>>713949
HEY GUYS
i too am new to this game (not OP) and finding all the helpful advice from anons in this thread very enlightening. i've been watchinga shit ton of youtube videos and i already feel like i've learned quite a lot from that. however, i've never played other paradox games and i'm having a difficult time gauging good benchmarks for my pacing or general opening strategy. what i mean by that is, for example-

how many civilian factories to build, roughly
when to switch to military, how many of those
rough army size sufficient to invade poland, for example, and when i should have it by (playing as germany)
etc.

those sorts of things. since it's a strategy game, and it plays out in real time, i can only assume a large part of the skill involved is quickly accumulating resources and growing stronger, but the scale is much larger and the visual representation more abstract than a typical rts, moba, 4x whatever so i cant simply look at the enemy base and say "oh, they had about twice as much shit as me". i am explaining it poorly but you get the idea. is there anywhere that goes over optimal opening game strategies in a way that is fairly specific (like a standard opening build order in AoE2 or skill/itemization guide in dota.
>>
>>708483
Source on Volound being a manlet?
>>
this game fucking sucks.
>>
>>715212
i just finished raping Great Britain with Nazi France by 1940
>>
Why do you people play hoi4? The game is fucking trash. I don't understand.
>>
>>714072
>Is there anywhere that goes over optimal opening game strategies
I'm sure there are a bunch of guides available if you just search for them

>how many civilian factories to build, roughly when to switch to military, how many of those
The build for all countries is the same, first you build civs and then you build mils until the game ends (with some things like refineries, airports, infra and such mixed in when necessary). It's not so much of a question of a number rather about when you make the switch. The later you switch the stronger your economy will be but less equipment you have in the short term. The correct time thus depends mostly on how the opponents are playing and when the war is going to start (or start effecting you anyhow). Switching earlier and then doing early war might work out, switching later and delaying the war might work out. A good starting point should be starting mills in spring 1938 as germany. If you feel you had enough equipment then you can try switching 3 months later and see if that still works or you could try earlier if you felt you had a crunch with early military production. Same applies to most every country, you can try a date and then see if that works for you or not. Soviets for instance might go for civs until mid 1939 since they won't enter the war until 1941. Also remember to do any forts, ports, airports and such as the last thing before the war starts (though have those done by that time)

Upgrade to war economy and total mob as soon as you can (partial mob for allies until war starts). Prioritize building in high infra states for the bonus and keep up your industry techs.

>poland
Any army will do, you will win against poland if you have the 1m manpower required for the focus. Try to have 2-4 tank divisions of your choice out by the time you start the war to make it extra easy.
>>
>>715236
I don't play HOI4, i play Kaiserreich
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>>715365
appreciate the reply, anon. thanks for the tips.
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>>692472
>My absolute favorite part about HOI4 is how Paradox spent all this time during the game's initial development to make the battle plan system so that newcomers could just draw arrows telling units where to go and wouldn't have to micromanage every unit and get overwhelmed like the case was with HOI3, but then everyone was micromanaging units anyway

This is true but this is probably the best outcome to be honest.
HoI3 is a really great game with a charm and a quality all its own, but it too tedious micro-managing division design (particularly re-structuring your starting divisions), army attachments, and especially railroading all your troops to various borders and fronts and keeping track of all the exact placements of units. I'm sorry but it's true, it especially if you have to move to different fronts a lot (try a Nat China playthrough where you gobble up the warlords if you don't believe me).
HoI3 had AI army control but at the end of the day it was just an objectively shitter implementation of what is in HoI4 and it could lead to disaster if not carefully watched. Being able to easily make obvious army movements like "I want to please put units on the border" and "I want my troops to follow the front and attack" is a GOOD thing.
The happy middle ground of 'just drawing arrows and clicking go' and 'micro-managing every unit' is something like what you're describing - let the player easily spread out units on an enemy border, and then micro their units in combat across the front.
The real problem actually is not HoI4's easy to use army management and controls, it's that it's TOO EASY TO WIN using those controls. The reason for that is not the front line / battle planner itself but the weak AI and the the shallow division designer and the simplistic combat. Try mods like Total War - thoughtlessly drawing arrows will lead to really high casualties and is very sub-optimal, as it should be.
There can be balance between micro and QoL
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>>682083
>A superheavy tank will be just as fast, do damage as frequently, and have just as many in the battle as a light tank. There is no terrain that can't support different sized tanks.
Jesus really? What the fuck?
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>>719171
It's not actually true, super heavy tanks for instance get a -100% penalty on amhibious assaults while a light tank only suffers -40%. It's true in the practical sense though since the biggest penalties come from amphibious assault and hard terrain like jungles and mountains but thanks to the base penalties on those terrain types all attacks are already shit so it doesn't really matter which type you pick. Thus it really comes down to who can win on the good terrain types while the difficult ones can simply be encircled.
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>>681002
You have 14 fucking reserves, anon. If those aren't 40 width that are 13/7 or, if mobile warfare, 15/5, you're an idiot.

And yes, they concentrated, but not all of them on one fucking tile. Spread them across 5-6 tiles, attack tile from two directions at once, and so on. There's ways to do this, you are an idiot.

Doubly so since you are using Light Tanks that in current patch can be pierced so fucking easy. Mediums or Heavies are used to break the infantry, Lights are used to speed through to get the encirclement.
>>
>>710581
There's a metal gear submod to that?
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>>719171
I mean bigger tanks shouldn't have increased width, the only realistic issue that could happen would be supply.
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>>719374
They already have increased width, in the sense that tank unit with heavies needs less tanks than unit of lights
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so can anybody tell me what am I suppose to used these kind of division?
Infantry, Tank, Motor, Fighter, CAS, Naval bomber, Interceptor, Strategic bomber, Tatical bomber etc
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>>719498
>Infantry
Meat and bones of your army, used to defend, fill the frontline and increase organization of other units (such as combining them with artillery)
>Tanks
Strong but expensive, use them to attack or counter enemy tanks
>Motorized
It's infantry on wheels, used in combintion with tank divisions and inside tank divisions
>CAS
It's used to attack enemy troops directly helping you win fights you wouldn't otherwise win, it's close air support
>Nav bomber
Bomber that attacks ships, good for sinking larger navies such as allied navy as axis
>Fighters
Shoot down other planes allowing your own support planes (like cas or bombers) to do their missions without being attacked by enemy fighters
>Strat bombers
Bomb enemy buildings like their factories to reduce their production
>Tac bombers
Can do the job of cas, nav or strat bombers but not as good as any of them in their roles, flexible support plane basically.
>>
>>719284
Not to mention that, even if you were truly moronic like the OP, and tried attacking over a river with super-heavy tanks you could still just use CAS to destroy the enemy without having to bother with terrain. It really get me butt blasted that in this game you can just cruise over mountains and roadless wilderness with tanks and trucks.
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>>719530
what about ships in particular?
I have like 200+ hours in the game I can understand some aspect of lands and air but I never understand how navy work. Like for example I'm Japan and I want to move my troop into korea without doing navy invasion how do I do it? The only method I know is to select units to defend on that province and the division will just move there without any navy attach etc
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>>719570
You effectively want 3 types of fleets:
>Submarines
Max out whatever sub tech you have.
>Escorts
Max out destroyers specialized for sub-hunting as much as possible and pair them with Cruisers mounting as many floatplanes, high tier sonar, and AA. Cruisers will have very high spotting and can point out the subs to the Destroyers. Sonar on its own is just not good enough even upgraded for the higher tiers of submarines.
>Big Fleet
4 Carriers per big fleet, Battleships or Cruisers spec'd out for slugfests, and at least 5 destroyers for every 1 Carrier, Battleship, or Cruiser.
>>
>>719570
>what about ships in particular?
Ships are just a general meme, you can use them if you have them but it's not worth investing into them. There is some meta with them of course but practically speaking axis and japan can never out navy UK and US so there's no point trying, the best ship is really the naval bomber.

>I want to move my troop into korea without doing navy invasion how do I do it?
If you own the target (or otherwise have military access like trough your faction) area then it's pretty simple, you can just move into the ports. You can manually do it by putting your guys into a port and then clicking on another port but the game is smart enough to route your units if you use garrison or frontline orders as well so you can always just use those.
If you don't own it then you have to use a naval invasion.

>will just move there without any navy attach etc
The navy isn't responsible for moving units, that is done trough the abstracted convoy mechanic. Essentially units that enter sea transform into transport ships and equivalent value of convoys is deducted from your convoy count until those troops are back on land again. Navy comes into play if you want to escort the convoys (protect against enemy subs for instance) or if the sea zone is contested by enemy fleets in which case you need to have naval superiority there first before launching a naval invasion (you can still transport troops to your own ports trough enemy waters but it can be risky)
>>
>>719570
I mostly don't bother with navy, except once I need to invade the US/Japan/UK in the end game. At which point I just make 1944 anti-sub destroyers, AA light cruisers, and watch them melt the shitty AI capital ships.
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>>692915
What are the AI mods?
>>
>>721506

He literally says "Expert AI" and "Total War" mods, are you fucking blind
>>
>>718998
>The real problem actually is not HoI4's easy to use army management and controls, it's that it's TOO EASY TO WIN using those controls. The reason for that is not the front line / battle planner itself but the weak AI and the the shallow division designer and the simplistic combat.

i completely agree with this. hoi4 becomes practically an idle game when you have the game knowledge to plan ahead and know what division templates to build and how to manage your economy. that is why you have so many youtube videos of like "finland world conquest" and other ridiculous challenges. because you can just make some minor variation of the 14/4 or 7/2 template and never lose if you know which countries to fight and when. in my experience the expert ai mod primarily helps in that it makes the ai make similar 'meta' divisions and also more tanks and air which increases the challenge because you can't just battle plan to victory easily 100% of the time. if there is a hoi5 they really need to re-think division templates. in hoi3 the templates were much simpler but i wonder if this made it better in some ways because the ai could actually handle them.

to your point people who complain about the front lines and battle planner i think are autismos because its seriously an objective improvement over 3's controls.

i have never tried the total war mod but it looks like basically a less autistic version of blackice so i will check it out thanks anon.
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>>721781
DESU, they kinda are rethinking it with the next patch. Current division templates are that way because of just how optimum 20/40 width is under the current system because every battle is some multiple of 80. Coming patch they are making all the different terrains have different combat widths that do not multiply into each other, like I think 32 and 48.

Metafags are probably going to undo it for their mods because they don't like change, but whatever.
>>
>>721781
I think the fundamental problem is that stats work wrong. Each unit in a division contributes towards its stats and for attack, the only stat that really matters, each point is more valuable than the point before. This means, if it was possible, you would want to have all your troops in just one super-division. The combat width system and the need to cover long fronts forces you to use smaller divisions, but in principle you want to have few super strong divisions. The best way to fix this might be to turn the individual sub-units of the divisions into the elements that actually engage the enemy in combat.
>>
>>722344
There's actually some debate on this, weirdly enough. Two 20 width divisions and one 40 width division actually have functionally the same stats, but the 40 width does more damage in situations where there's two enemy divisions, because each of the 20 widths can target different divisions while the 40 width only targets one.
HOWEVER, there's a weird factor that can come up. There's a slight window between a division going down and reinforcements coming in, and if all divisions in a battle go down, you lose the battle even if there's reinforcements in the tile, referred to as being "reinforce meme'd". And in the standard 80 combat width, this is more common with 2 40 width divisions than 4 20 widths.
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>>719530
>>719604
>>719610
heya I'm back I decided to do some testing.I started as germany in 1936 building civilian factories switch to making fuel and military factories in 1937 then I go anschluss around 1937-8 go for cezchoslovakia and then I dekcare war on poland around 1940. My main problem is for some reasons I can't get pass the beneluxe and france. In 1 game I go for 40 width infantry (shovel/recon/artilery/signnal) I declare war on the beneluxe all of the at the same time and got stuck (should I just declare war on belgium and then go for netherlad?). Then on another game I decide I'm going for a infantry 40 width with 2 heavy tanks plus some anti Air and 40 width Motor with 4 Motor-Artilery and Anti Air from my surprise it was HARD as fuck to produce these, I declare war on poland in 1939 and called italy into the war from my experiment these divisions are really good at completely obliterate weak arny countries but they are hard to produce, after I kill poland france was making a progress in italy so I decide to help but then got stuck in stalement between france on western italy.
What the fuck am I suppose to do why are the french so goddamn OP? Should I just used Anti-Tank and Small Tank next time? I can't for the love of god invade france
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>>725946
also here's my division template. how can I improve this?
>>
>>681406
10,000 hours in ms paint
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>>725946
>>725961
You're first infantry division is pretty good, maybe add some AA, at least if you are making sure to research your doctrines. However, you are messing up on the strategy side of things. Infantry is good for defense and holding the line. What you want to attack the Benelux and France are dedicated tank divisions, seven motorized and the rest to 40 width being heavy or medium tanks. That will allow for you to punch through their entrenched forces.
Carefully using the Soviet treaty to rush Medium IIs is a somewhat better idea because of their speed allowing overruns, but Heavy IIs can work as well.
>>
is fuhrerreich decent?
>>
>>682109
the AI in SE is literally, unironically, way worse than the AI in hoi4
SE in general is kinda shit, it has a billion different things to keep tabs on but then the AI just suicides everything by giving you easy as fuck encirclement and attacking frontlines it can't possibly breakthrough
I tried getting into SE but halfway through killing the last remaining major I just fucking gave up out of boredom.
who the fuck wants to micro wages, supply lines, happiness, loyalty, danger, fuel, food, recruitment, loyalty, development, research, OOBs, personnel and so on when it's all in service of waging slow but unlosable wars?
The only time SE is remotely challenging it's when it spawns you next to OP aliens or locals.
yeah HoI4 isn't much better but don't act like SE isn't a map-painter too
>>
It’s a sad reality when you realize that many of the games people shill out here on /vst/ are unironically worse than a pile of steaming shit like hoi4. But in some ways it’s almost funny. They see all the hate that hoi4 gets for being a glorified ms paint, and think it’s fine to shit on it too, despite never even remotely touching a competently made game in their life and deluding themselves by sticking to baby’s first “strategy” games.
>>
HERE'S WHY I'M NOT BUYING THIS GAME
YOU DON'T JUST BUT THE FUCKING GAME
THERE'S LIKE 700 OTHER PIECES OF CONTENT I HAVE TO PURCHASE
NO
NO
NO
>>
>>726111
In general, grand strategy games are too focused on strategy in the literal sense.
meaning that as long as you pick the right-ish course of action everything else just falls in place by itself
EG: "let's fight this guy first then the other guy, instead of both at the same time!" or "let's not waste fuel on navy when the airforce and tanks are more important!" etc.
and the operational/tactical layer of the gameplay is either too simple and predictable, too hard for the AI to grasp, or too easily exploitable
that's why strategy games in general shine in multiplayer
truth is that if you want to feel intellectually stimulated in a singleplayer game you're better off playing zachtronic games rather than strategy games.
But hey Grand strategy games are fine to shoot the shit, they usually have a lot of flavor and it's fun to mess about with them for a couple playthroughs
no Idea how people with 5k hours stomach it however, must be autism

>>726116
>paradox
>purchase
always pirate paradox games
>>
>>726127
>no Idea how people with 5k hours stomach it however, must be autism
Tends to be the multiplayer, I find. Either roleplaying out different nations, or playing historic recreations, though there is a 1v1 mod for more meta focused play. You can get a pretty damn fine degree of challenge out of it because of human players actually being smart and challenging you strategically, which is where the game more accels.
>>
>>725961
>>725961
Your whole infantry army is 40w? there is literally never any situation where that is a good idea, to be honest 40w infanty kind of sucks imo, I'd rather use the supply they take would take up on the front with something that has speed and armor like mechanized or tanks
>>
this thread is fucking pure gold by the way
>>
>>681259
>losing the air war as Germany in single player
Imagine being this bad. Germany is babby tier easy in this game
>>
>>726961
its furherreich retard
>>
>>725946
>>725961
to be honest i dont know why you're having trouble with those templates, except for that 14/4's are expensive so maybe you don't have a lot of them, but that should be more than enough to beat france.
Try this next game:
>Do similar research / build order except do Civs for a little longer. Like late 1937 / early 1938 go mils (around when you do Fate of Czechoslovakia). Dont worry as much about synthetics until 1938/39
>Your INF template is 10 INF, with support Art, Eng, and AA. Keep these guys light so you can focus on air and tanks.
>Build medium tanks with a simple 12/8 Medium / Motorized template with support ENG and AA only. Use the focus tree buffs you get for Medium research to ahead of time these whenever you can.
>Build lots of Fighters and CAS (e.g. like 15 factories on each MINIMUM) and try to get to fighter 2 / CAS 2 early
>Always be researching Air (Battlefield Support) and Army (Mobile Warfare) doctrines
>Try to get approx. 5-8 of those medium tanks out before you do Around the Maginot.

You should be totally able to roll over France with this. If you have air superiority, CAS damage means your infantry templates can take on theirs and win, while the medium tanks should roll over whatever they have without any problem. All you should have to do is declare and collapse Netherlands then Belgium with battle planner and rushing their capitols. Then re-draw your front-lines and start pushing south into France.

>>726952
i downloaded this thread and saved it as "the worst thread of all time"
>>
>>708483
Volound is a dwarf?

Big if true
>>
>>729082
>playing mods when you're still learning the game

Shoot yourself
>>
>>729364
the mechanics are the same, nigger
>>
>>729764
this
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>>719530
An underrated advantage of Tac bombers is that they have way more range than CAS or NAV, in the Pacific especially you may be able to support your naval invasions with land based tac bombers but not land based CAS.
>>
>>682254
>dude I killed the soviets with nearly a 1:15 kill ratio following your advice
>you are all shit learn the game lol

I got trolled, why did I take this seriouly for so long?
>>
>>681002
Germany had about 16 Panzer divisions when Barbarossa began, split between the three army groups. You have 16 Panzer divisions in a tile the size of a single city. I hope I don't need to explain further.
>>
>>682167
>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HERR MANNSTEIN WE'RE FUCKING STARVING A LIGHT TANK RAN OVER MY FOOT JUST BEFORE IT RAN OUT OF FUEL WHY THE FUCK DID YOU ORDER US ALL INTO THIS ONE PROVINCE
>>
>>680908
>getting filtered by fucking HoI4
yikes
>>
>>726116
The base game is actually very generous Paradox release about half of every major DLC for free.
>>
>>726116
>buy base game
>cracks DLCs with CreamAPI
Simple as
>>
>>685325
>the role of the player is to simply fit the right pegs into the right holes
Like in almost any other strategy game
>>
>>682254
What is the North Sea Empire?
>>
>>740149
fascist denmark, horrible name
>>
>>719498
It is extremely nuanced and varies heavily depending on your situation.
>>
>>681393
It actually doesn't and would end with even bigger disaster.
You would know, if you played any, instead of samefagging yourself with "based" self-bumps
>>
>>681794
>sending your units to training is MP autism
>using barely fielded rookies is totally legit and shouldn't cause trouble
I mean I get it, this is GoY$ thread and GoY$ playerbase is predominately made by brain-damaged teens, but you are just trying too hard
>>
>>719498
>Infantry
Backbone of your army (duh). Composition depends entirely on who you are facing, who you are playing as and what's your industry like. On average, you want lots of infantry with some artillery to it, potentially also AT artillery
>Tank
A power multiplier for your mobile units, used to power-through enemy frontline and create encirclements, while not being shat to pieces. You know, breakthrough the front line and flow through the gap with other units. NEVER make pure tank divisions, they MUST come with other mobile units, like trucks..
>Motor
Can either go on their own or as combined arms component to your tanks. Their main appeal is speed, while combat wise, they are slightly better than foot infantry. Still, even if you don't have tanks, you want to have at least a token force of motor divisions (one of DLCs adds motor artillery, so throw that in, too) and use them to overrun enemy positions
>Fighter
Don't bother
>CAS
Air support for your fighting troops, essentially another power-modifier. Particularly good at killing tanks and mobile units.
>Naval bombers
Unless you plan to do naval invasion or fighting a naval power - don't bother
>Interceptor
As the name implies, intercept enemy bombers and defend your units and installations from being bombarded. You can ignore pretty much every other element of air combat, except for those guys
>Strategic bomber
Don't bother
>Tatical bomber
Don't bother. Some might argue that they are long-range CAS, but they are "jack of all trades, master of none" waste of resources and production.

On average, you want to have 9:1 ratio of infantry to motor divisions and if you can afford tanks, then 6:2:2 of infantry, motor and tanks.
And next time, read a fucking game manual before asking.
>>
>>686094
This sometimes gets funny results, thou.
Ever heard a Stardew Valley? Well, there are people who play it as if it was business/farm sim, min-maxing the shit out of the game and doing pre-plans right down not just to what to crop, but where to go and how spend each point of their energy.
In a game that's ostensibly a "comfycore" casual time killer that your mom would play in her free time if she was into vidya.
>>
>>726116
>Buying Paradox games
>Ever
I've played all their games except for Stellaris.
I never spend a single penny on them. Always pirated them instead
>>
>>742088
>Don't bother. Some might argue that they are long-range CAS, but they are "jack of all trades, master of none" waste of resources and production.
Tactical bombers are literally the only aircraft you need. Learn to streamline your production - and win.
>>
>>742295
There is not a single aircraft type you need for anything. Put support AA into all your units and watch the enemy planes disappear. Cheaper and more efficient than any other investment into planes. If provincial AA was better, you wouldn't even need interceptors to defend your infrastructure.
Also
>Implying GoY$ production system is some sort of intricate economic model that requires IQ of 150 and knowledge of interventionist policies
Anon asked for newfag help. The newfag help is "don't waste time on airforce, because you won't be able to use it properly anyway, newfag"
That and the fact everything that isn't interceptors is complete waste of production, time and effort anyway.
>b-but
There are buts or ifs here. Airforce was always dog-shit bad in HoI and it's the most consistent part of those games since HoI1 premiered. You can conquer the world without much effort without ever sending a single airwing into action.
>>
>>742295
Oh, and one more thing
>NAV are useless
>STR are useless
Oh wow, this means TAC role is reduced to being just CAS... But since you can have CAS directly, it looks like TAC are useless then. And their range is a complete non-factor, since the role you're to apply to them is directly tied with close-range support.
>>
>>742411
>>NAV are useless
They're useless because you can just use tactical bombers instead to bomb ships, yes.
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>>742475
They are useless, because naval combat is useless and the only navy you will ever need are transport ships for invasions.
And for the sake of decimating someone's else navy, which is anyone's guess why you should even bother, that's the time when you launch the production line for those 200 NAVs to be done with, if you really insist on having some air-to-ship combat.
Why would you do that is anyone guess, but you seem to continously denial the simple truth that airforce is, was and will be in future titles just a gimmick to distract newfags and role-players.
>>
>>742657
>They are useless, because naval combat is useless and the only navy you will ever need are transport ships for invasions.
Explain how to get from Europe to America without a navy or airforce.
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>>713949
Build infrastructure and stack construction speed buffs in order to build civs. Converting civs to mils is also faster than building an entire new military factory.
>>
File: m0fdhayahf631.png (3.26 MB, 1920x1080)
3.26 MB
3.26 MB PNG
>>742661

The AI never sees it coming.
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>>742747
That's not from Europe, that's from Asia.
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>>742753
Asia is in Europe if you have conquered all of it.
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>>742661
>Explain how to get from Europe to America without a navy or airforce.
What the other anon already posted.
Alternatively, by declaring on some banana republic and then just going from there.
It's like this since HoI1. Always have been.
Naval combat is a waste of time. The only time naval combat was made viable was convoy hunting in 2 and thus DH, but that's only good if you're going against Brits and only as Germany. No other game in the series comes even close to 2's effectiveness of convoy hunting and utter destruction of British capacity to fight the war in the colonies, to the point of being rolled over by Italian AI in Africa.
>>
>>742133
this
>>
>>681559
Yeah the supply rework is coming thankfully because even with half the historical unit count and with massive infrastructure improvements i still can't supply my units when pushing into the USSR.
>>
>>744803
>i still can't supply my units when pushing into the USSR.
Explain me something:
How are you failing to supply your units in a game WITHOUT ANY LOGISTICS?
>>
>>744818
BlackICE mod
>>
>>719610
>Ships are just a general meme, you can use them if you have them but it's not worth investing into them. There is some meta with them of course but practically speaking axis and japan can never out navy UK and US so there's no point trying, the best ship is really the naval bomber.
I assume this is an SP post because you rec'd Naval Bombers (they get shot down really easily by proper AA fleets that humans use)
Japan can easily outnavy SP USA, heck, you dont have to do anything, just throw all your fleet at once thats it
a Germany quality fleet of light attack cruisers and some torpedos fucks AI UK up
>>
>>745376
>t. doesn't know how to use naval bombers, still posts anyway
Every single time
>Rest of the post
It's like you've missed the memo on "fleet is useless and so is building new ships"
>>
Why do I keep coming back to this game expecting it to not be shit?
It's got to be the tech trees, why is the unit design so in depth in only this game?
>>
use heavy tanks. every other tank is shit, lights are terrible because even stock infantry will pierce it by 39
>>
>>745523
Heavy tanks cannot Blitzkreig they are too slow you might as well just use infantry.
>>
>>746369
>Can't make his tanks useful
>Doesn't know why he should use heavies
>Not even knowing how to blitz
top lal
>>
>>745492

The game is incredibly deep you just do not see it because you play against the easy AI as overpowered major nations.

Play multiplayer and you will realize the important strategic depth at operational levels, economy, and managing political power.
>>
>>748176
>The game is incredibly deep you just do not see it
>>
>>748176
>build 40w
>minmax efficiency
yes, now I truly see the depth
>>
How do I git gud at naval? I can't even sink AI ships, I just put my ships on sea the moment the naval invasion is planned and then take them off the moment the troops depart
>>
>>748690
Step one: Realise naval is pointless and useless
Step two: Ignore enemy navy entirely
Step three: You've saved yourself loads of resources and fuel for actually useful things
>>
>>748690
Scouting and making sure your strike force is close by when it finds a taskforce.
With how the game currently works the US can get assfucked by japan by virtue of having almost nowhere in the pacific to base. All the little islands the japs have put them in a far better spot.
I reckon just tying those ships to invasion fleets to get your foot in would unironically work better early on.
>>
>>726116
God, you do not HAVE to purchase them. Why do people act so entitled to DLC? It was not there when the game was released.
>>
>>751311
it literally blocks basic elements of a ww2 game, no converting equipment,navy,special tactics, special units (bike, camels etc) not even releasable puppets.
>>
>>748740
I swear this is the case in every single strategy game that has both naval and land battles.
>>
>>751462
Unfortunately, most games don't really make good use of navies.
WW2 navies as far as I know were useful for supply transfers like throughout all history but also had artillery and air craft. Next to no games portray any of those three elements with any degree importance or even usefulness.
The only game that I know got it right with naval artillery was Shogun 2 Fall of the Samurai.
>>
>>751633
Even in that game you could manage just fine without any navy.
>>
>>681181
Based animechad.
>>
>>748740
>play Japan
>ignore navy
>US player blockades you and you starve to death
>>
>>752747
>Send a handful of naval bombers
>US player has no navy anymore
>You can build your bombers from a scratch within few months
>US player spends next two years building back his navy
Oh wow, I'm totally going to build ships now!
And also - there is the starting fleet. Which is more than enough. The point is to not build more (waste of resources) and to not use it for anything (waste of fuel).
Japan, despite being an island, doesn't need navy for anything at all.

Fuck newfags and fuck idiots for self-gimping themselves. And especially fuck those who don't understand gameplay mechanics and just follow with real-life logic.
>>
>>752747
There is not a single HoI game where this would be true.
In HoI1, convoy hunting was flat-out broken
In HoI2/DH, US player would have to build submarines and then send them to India and Australia, faaar away from Home Islands, and potentially still didn't achieve anything, because resources would be easily flowing between Busan to any given Japanese port on the other side of the Tsushima Strait. Getting any closer means near-instant detection and loss of subs, while fleet surface wouldn't even have the proper range and anti-convoy capabilities with US naval doctrine. Troop supplies are handled in arcade mode anyway, so as long as there is just the strait convoy, Japan is doing fine.
In HoI3, you can do what Americans did IRL - starve off the island garrisons. However, Japan has ZERO use out of said garrisons (just like it did IRL), so you're pouring your own resources to achieve nothing in particular. Once again, resources for Home Islands aren't endangered in the slightest. And due to rework on supply system, troops on the mainland aren't in any danger of supply shortage, because supplies are being delivered from nearest factory, not the capital. If the Japanese player isn't brain-dead (and AI sure as hell isn't in this particular field), he's going to stockpile crude and fuel before war in quantity sufficient to survive even with nobody to import from.
And then there is HoI4, which DOESN'T HAVE SUPPLIES and resources aren't stockpiled, but simply accessed. Which means a single convoy that reaches its destination is delivering its content no matter how many ships were lost in the process, and providing full bonus, too. The only exception is fuel, but the mechanics are so fucking retarded, you can still easily stockpile fuckhuge amount of it even while being bombed and torpedoed by all the might of US Navy and airforce.

So exactly who is starving who and where, you pretentious twat?
>>
>>752747
there is no food mechanics in this game so no, no starvation
>>
>>752791
>Which means a single convoy that reaches its destination is delivering its content no matter how many ships were lost in the process, and providing full bonus, too.
Anon, I dislike hoi4 as much as anyone here but this is just false. Both overseas resources, and supply reinforcements like guns etc. are affected by convoy raids. For instance, sinking lots of british convoys outside of their home islands will reduce the amount of resources coming in from their colonies and the US. What you’re probably thinking of is factory production, which does not suffer penalties from convoy raids between sea tiles.
>>
>>752757
>>752791
Obvious that you only play singleplayer
>>
>>754239
And running a war economy is not you eating into the finite reserves your nation has built up under peace, it instead turns your country into a magical wonderland where free stuff falls from the sky.
>>
>>754745
yeah that is what i mean no logic
>>
>>751462
>>751633
I think part of it is that strategy game devs are (perhaps rightly) afraid of making control of sea lanes as critical as it is in real life. Like >>752747 said, if you let yourself get raided you will die in the era these games are set in. But "slowly being choked out by a power imbalance you no longer have the resources to correct (because they're all sitting on the bottom of the sea" is probably not considered a very fun mechanic.

Also since the GSG genre cannot get over its ebin eastern front fixation, it makes sense that sea warfare isn't a high priority for a game focused on vast inland plains.
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>>756813
what do you mean
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>>680908
This is an embarrassing post OP. Your pic literally shows ypu are not just incompetent but actually retarded. I dont need to explain why because plenty already have. Just letting you know.
>>
>>759684
how? game play core makes no sense



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