Last thread got archived, starting a new one>Unironically the greatest entry in the series
What is the best mod and why is it C2C?
>>600736>best entry in the seriesBut that would be V
>>600743hate the caveman part
>>600743Too much bloat sadly. They could use a little balance pass/trimming on buildings.There's still somewhat big SOVL in the mod and you just end up playing it out. Like, "so bad that it's good" like junk food or The Room
>>600736Reminder that Old World is already better than every Civ past 4 and that Soren Johnson is the 4X savior we all need.
>>604457If it was on Steam, then I could run it on Linux with Proton.Since it's only on Epic, I must spurn it for not respecting my freedoms.
>>600736All civ games has been shit, except for maybe 1 as I haven't played that one.
>>600743RFCDOC, literally no comparable gameplay experience
>>600743It's FFH2 and always has been.>ywn live in Auric's winter wonderland
>>600855Correct option.>>606646>t.reddit manchildyou don't even play civ, neck yourself
>>606649Is DoC the only noteworthy mod still being developped?
>>607963redditors are the ones who haven't played anything before V
Do I need to have all the expansions installed on Steam to play the complete package? From which of the Civ IV entries in my games list do I launch it from to get all of them?
>>601170It's literally the very top option when making each map to skip it and start at Sedimentry Lifestyle instead.
>>604457>Hex-based>Shit-tier economy>Meh warfare>Brain-dead AIIt's literally Civ 5 with few tweaks to it
>>608476Always BTS. It's like this since BTS came out
>>604611Do people seriously still think like this or are you memeing? It’s rare to see a dyed in the wool freetard these days
>>604611steam is nonfree too, you absolute fucking cromagnon. kill yourself
>>614049>>614172>>614322Sure is strange how a post can be ignored for days, and then three separate people suddenly feel compelled to defend the honor of our lord and savior and good friend Epic.
>>614628I detest epic. Nonetheless, rare to see a honest to goodness freetard. We’re you on /. back in the day?
>>614030>Hex-basedHexes are good you mongoloid. Literally the only good change Civ made in 5.>Shit-tier economyThe push-pull in managing your physical resources and your civilization resources is pretty well done. Placement of improvements and buildings is very important and establishing adjacency synergies is far more impactful than anything Civ 6 does with districts. The multitude of ways to use Training and Civics either for special actions or for building units/projects/specialists in individual cities means you end up making some difficult choices on when and how to utilize those resources.>Meh warfareIt's no tactical masterpiece or anything but it fixes the biggest problem with Civ 5/6's combat in that you actually have some damn space to maneuver around and perform some real battlefield tactics with your units rather than just grinding through carpets of units. The sheer amount of space you can cover with your units is counterbalanced by your limited orders, so it's not like you can just move anywhere with no cost.>Brain-dead AIThis is just bad bait. The AI isn't some incredible force or anything but it does a competent enough job building its cities, maintaining an army, and knowing to only take fights it thinks it can win. Diplomacy is chaotic and the AI has trouble pressing an advantage when they have one, but it's certainly not braindead. Civ 6's AI is braindead.>It's literally Civ 5 with few tweaks to itEven ignoring the quality of each game, they play absolutely nothing alike.
>>606649>RFCDOC, literally no comparable gameplay experienceIt's okay, but I don't like how much it restricts you to settling historical areas.I need to play on the easiest level in order to create alternate history scenarios.
>>614715>Hexes are good you mongoloid. Literally the only good change Civ made in 5.If I see you, I will kill you in the most agonizing way possible.
>>614715>Hexes are goodt. doesn't understand why hexes are being used and thinks they are more "tactical" just because>is pretty well doneThat doesn't make it good, you know.>Placement of improvements and buildings is very importantAs expected from people who made an object-placement game>more impactful than anything Civ 6 does with districtsOh, so you never fucking played pre-5 Civs. Thanks for telling>The multitude of ways to use Training and CivicsAgain, you never played pre-5> it fixes the biggest problem with Civ 5/6'But their problem is existing at all. You are literally making an argument about how much Old World managed to polish a turd>The sheer amount of space you can cover with your units is counterbalanced by your limited ordersAgain, item-placement game. Soooo strategic! Very tactical!>This is just bad baitYes, that would perfectly describe your attempts to present Old World as a good game. Bonus points for your entire comparison being Civ 5 and 6, you fucking zoomer faggot. You just managed to spend 3 lines waxing on how "AI might be bad, but at least not Civ 5 bad">they play absolutely nothing alike.But come with very similar end-result experience: easily trashing incompetent AI over hex-grid map.
>>600736Can anyone justify picking a non-Financial leader if you have the choice? >3 commerce river cottages>3 commerce coast>tonnes more commerce generallyGreat People are nice but you can have them with Elizabeth. Happiness is nice: Hannibal. Wonders are nice: Huayna. Settlers and GG: Victoria. I will play Rome because praetorians are strong: but if I picked Hannibal and unrestricted leaders I know I'd have an easier time.
>>614897Because that would mean I would have to play as Elizabeth and with Angloids, since that's the only Financial-Philosophical combo
>>614628>defending epiclmao. ur delusional dude
>>614897Any one of FIN, EXP, or SPI (or two if you can manage) are simply better options than any of the others. PHI is good too but it requires proper setup and some wonder luck to make full use of. If you don't get Pyramids you shouldn't even bother for example.>>614955FIN/PHI isn't actually all that great because cottage spam and specialist economies don't synergize with each other all that well, so one of those traits inevitably ends up being sidelined in favor of the other.
What is the conseus on slavery?
>>616363Everyone loves it but it's garbage IMO. You need population to get commerce - commerce is the most important part of the game. Chopping is enough for production early game, slavery just wastes population.>Happiness cap!Just play a charismatic leader, get luxuries, or a religion or Pyramids into representation. Not hard.
>>616851You can't pull off an early rush without whipping unless you're on a pleb tier difficulty.
>>616930I've done it on Emperor with Praetorians, Keshiks and Numidians.
>>600743C2C's not bad at all, but it will never compare to Fall From Heaven. That thing blew my mind when I first played it way back when
>>616851If you're growing so slowly that you always have happiness to spare then either your land is shit or you're shit.>CHA leaderThe happiness from CHA is a complete non-entity, If you're building monuments then you're shit at the game and should kill yourself. Stonehenge is nice but you're not always able to get it.>commerce is the most important part of the gameYes, which is why you should be working cottages and/or specialists as soon as you can, and whipping pop should not stop you from doing so. I'm not sure what kind of Civ 4 games you're playing where literally all of your pop are working cottages or specialists before mid-to-late-game but it's not something that happens often.>Chopping is enough for production early gameIt really isn't, especially not before Mathematics. You want to chop aggressively AND whip your population early game to get all the workers and settlers you need to expand properly. There's also the consideration where you want to save chops for key early wonders, though obviously that's not always relevant.>slavery just wastes populationThat you grow back quickly with any good food source. Speaking of, the fact that you said commerce is the most important part of the game contradicts your own point, because it means that food and by extension population is utterly worthless unless it can be assigned to work something useful other than just more food. You generally don't have enough cottages to work for how fast your population grows in the early game, and mines are almost always strictly worse than just whipping the pop away and letting it grow.Slavery isn't the end-all be-all. If you get a very rich start with high-commerce luxuries, lots of food, can comfortably chop out Pyramids to get into Rep and can Oracle CoL, then you can push a hell of a lot of science by running Caste System instead of Slavery and end up in a dominant position. Civ 4 gives you choices, it just happens Slavery is the best choice most of the time.
>>617167>If you're building monuments then you're shit at the game and should kill yourselfWhere are you supposed to get early culture from for the fat cross? Libraries take too long to make. >You say commerce good - therefore you think population badWhat? No. You need population to get commerce. More population good. If you don't have enough workers just make more: they're cheap. Commerce is about getting a decisive tech advantage, then using superior units to steamroll. You need the commerce base to get enough tech for city spam to be useful. Its no good conquering a civilization and forcing research to 10% for an extended period. Calendar, Currency, CoL, the aesthetics line for wonders are all important to get and cement an early advantage. With sufficient commerce you can be first to Liberalism, you can have a shot at Statue without neglecting the more important military techs.There's zero use in making an excessive number of units early on higher difficulty levels. You have to pay serious maintenance for them and you can't conquer that much territory before city maintenance is crippling. 1.2 civs is the limit. Zero point in razing: the AI will just resettle any gap super quickly. Caste system is much better, slavery isn't worth it.
>>617527>Where are you supposed to get early culture from for the fat cross? Libraries take too long to make.Libraries are also a requirement in nearly every city, for both the science boost and the specialists. Monuments do literally nothing beyond the +1 culture unless you have a UB, of which Egypt's is the only worthwhile one. Yes, libraries are expensive but you're going to build them anyway, and it just so happens there's a mechanic that lets you quickly convert population to a big burst of hammers to finish otherwise expensive buildings much faster than usual, so in the end it's not a big deal.>What? No. You need population to get commerce. More population good.More population is good IF that population is doing something. Population that's just sitting there are working poor tiles and nothing else does nothing for you.You seem to be under the impression that whipping means you have to sacrifice commerce when they just simply isn't the case a good part of the time. Food tiles are extremely strong in this game and granaries literally halve the amount of food you need to grow so your growth will almost always outpace your ability to work good tiles or specialists. And even if you do whip away a cottage tile or two, it takes no time at all for that population to regrow, so you've sacrificed a couple turns of one cottage for a unit, a worker, a settler, or a crucial building.Believe me, I understand how good Caste System is and to an extent I do agree with you that it can compete with Slavery in many situations, especially later on in the game and even more especially if you have a SPI leader who can just switch between the two as needed. But it just isn't as universally useful as Slavery is, and in the early game you want to make use of it as much as possible to jumpstart your settlers and workers.
>>616363What the other anon said already - you're just wasting your population away for nothing>>616930>What is choppingHave you tried playing the game you are talking about?
>>617879>More population is good IF that population is doing somethingNta, but they are always doing something by the sheer fact of existing.Last time whipping worked and was worth it, it was Civ 3
Lads, while we're on the subject, how do I whip optimally? I don't get when I'm supposed to rush production
>>616363It's great for combating unhappiness from overpopulation in the early game while also earning bonus shields. Chopping isn't enough, and there's no way to keep everyone happy at that stage anyway.
>>619773>I don't get when I'm supposed to rush productionBasically every opportunity you get. Prioritize food so you can do it a lot. The faster you get your Granary up, the faster you get more citizens that can be converted into hammers, the faster you get your Library, etc. Slavery is how you get things done in the early and mid game, or all the way to the end if you need to put conquered populations to use.Always whip away citizens that are otherwise going to work unimproved tiles. Avoid taking citizens off highly profitable tiles, especially cottages, unless you have an overlapping city that can take over that tile while your whipped city grows back to size. Every citizen should be making a profit either by working an improved tile, a specialist slot, or the whip - remember that every living citizen also has a cost as they increase your civic upkeep. If you have a huge overabundance of food, try to whip multiple citizens at a time, since each click increases anger duration by a fixed 10 turns regardless of how many citizens actually get used.Keep in mind that each whipped citizen is worth exactly 30 hammers (affected by modifiers, so with a Forge you get 37,5 hammers per citizen.) Any excess goes into overflow for the next item in the queue; try to exploit this to its fullest. If you have a lot of food, whipping Workers and Settlers is a very easy way to get huge amounts of production for other projects as well; if you whip them when they're 31 or 61 hammers away from completion, you get 29 hammers into your next production - AND the surplus food from the last turn also gets turned into regular hammers that are affected by modifiers. If you do have modifiers from say, Stone or being Industrious, you can do this to build Wonders with food, or get other discounted buildings up instantly. Micromanaging the whip is very worthwhile.Final tip: build the Granary everywhere, and whip it so that it finishes when your food bar is at 50% for optimal benefit.
>>619670>30 hammers for pop that aren't being useful and that can be grown back in no time is nothing.I swear some of you idiots are so determined to be contrarian that you scoff at 15 years worth of meta. There's a reason civ autists invariably extol the virtues of Slavery in Civ 4. Because it works.
>>619972>I swear some of you idiots are so determined to be contrarian that you scoff at 15 years worth of metaTrue lol, last thread there was some weirdo who was arguing that cottages were made obsolete by lumbermills. No deity player would seriously argue that slavery is worthless, and a big part in moving up the difficulty ladder is learning how to whip properly
>>620203>last thread there was some weirdo who was arguing that cottages were made obsolete by lumbermillsthe fuckeven my retarded chieftain-playing ass jizzes myself over getting a lategame town on a river with a financial leader
>>600743it's currently AdvCiv for having the best AI in civ4 to dateit's a pity it can't just be plugged into these other mods (i love FFH2 but even with the best AI mods it's still a bit garbage)
>>619922An important detail I forgot: rushing a Wonder directly only gives you 20 hammers per citizen, so overflowing 29 hammers from a previous production is more efficient.
>>619972>that aren't being usefulIf you have pops that aren't useful, you are probably in far north/south and all you've got is barren tundraOr you are telling me you play with ICS in mind, so any pop after 4th is always excess and wasteful.
>>620203Nobody said it's worthless, either. The point is that you are both wanking furiously to it as if it was some sort of end-all solution.It's not. It's not even close.
Bump, even if the thread devolved into meta-faggotry.
>>616363Are you building settlers and workers? Then growing on food resources to kill the pop is slightly better than stagnating growth for 6-10 turns. 2 to 3x better with a granary in place or the imperialistic and expansive production bonuses.Is it military? Slavery is about as efficient as working grassland hill mines. But you first need to grow and already have workers mining it.slavery is amazing until it gets its civic slot competed for. But there's no competition in the first 20 to 120 turns.
>>622494What the fuck is 'meta-faggotry', moron? You know that these games are all about optimization? Just play 5 if you want to fuck around in a sandbox where nothing matters
>>600736>100th civ 4 thread>OP forgets to link baba yetu yet againWhen will you learn?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e0Qelqp-Cc
When should you use serfdom?
>>622854>REEEEEEEEEEE THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE META AND YOU WILL PLAY IT OR ELSE YOU ARE A ZOOMER RETARD MORON!This is precisely what meta-faggotry is.>>623364If you have to do extensive infrastructure, literally the moment you can. If not, wait until you have to.
>>623364If you play a spiritual leader and plan ahead you can squeeze some 5 turn windows of serfdom and then swap back to slavery when you're ready to whip. Otherwise it's outdone by all the other labor civics, even emancipation.
>>623374>If you have to do extensive infrastructure, literally the moment you can. If not, wait until you have to.with slavery you can pump out more settlers to do the work
>>624119Yeah, and there is still a break-even point where you are better off not wasting time and pops on getting more workers, but simply use them more efficiently. If you are whipping pops to finish task with 4 workers, instead of using just 2, you've fucked up. Especially when this relates to establishing new cities or reworking conquest or unlocking some new tile improvement.
>>624119>>624281Not to mention the obvious: time spend on making more workers is time not spend on building other shit or units.
>>616851Production is more valuable the earlier you get it. It's not as "wasted" as it might appear on paper by just doing a direct comparison of a chop over working a tile.
>>600736>Civ 6 now has corporations and barb camps can now become city statesUh, actually, they do make them like they used to.
>>624634You will never play a real strategy
>>624119If you stick to Slavery for too long, you end up gimping yourself in a vicious cycle>Slavery, not Serfdom>Tiles take forever to be improved>Throw more workers on them, which burns population>Tiles are improved slowly and with big amount of effort>Population is low, so not that many tiles end up being worked>End result is barely improved productivity>Has to keep using Slavery and whipping to get shit done at allIt might work on AI, but good luck facing human that snowballs in infrastructure thanks to Serfdom, having twice as big, and four times as productive cities in very short order.
>>624700I don't understand that serfdom talk. By the time you get Feudalism, everyone's pretty much done expanding with new cities and you'll never grow your cities fast enough to need more than 2 workers per city. Unless you do some warriors + Monarchy combo, you won't even grow your cities big enough to use all tiles.Slavery can still be useful in midgame. You can whip defenders and courthouses in occupied cities, or you can 4 pop whip markets and grocers in your big cottage-only low-hammer cities and still get a net boost in commerce.
>>624844>and you'll never grow your cities fast enough to need more than 2 workers per cityHello, Slaver-kun. Remember - this is the choice you've consciously made, not the actual game rules. This is also why Slavery is so fucking useless on two biggest map sizes, as it's actively disadvantageous beyond very early game.>Slavery can still be useful in midgameNever denied that. Just pointed out there are better alternatives over time. It simply slowly, but surely drops its edge and by the time of Renaissance techs start rolling, Slavery is pretty much "I want to gimp myself" option.Not to mention how Emancipation speeds up cottage-heavy economy, while also fucking everyone who doesn't have it. That's still mid-game>inb4 late game is 1000 AD
>>624844If you continously whip your population, no fucking wonder you can't even use all the tiles the city has.Imagine if you instead kept your pops alive and they've worked those tiles for loads of cash. Amazing, isn't it?
>>624700serfdom is fucking awful and slavery is the GOAT civic, git gud
>>624700>but good luck facing human that snowballs in infrastructure thanks to Serfdomwhat the fuck am i even reading
>>624905Said the guy who can only use whipping or else is fucked. Love it when fucks like you get shank by Emancipation. Your game is completely fucked then>>624906Oh, so you only play against AI. That explains the Slavery obsession
>>600736Which Fall From Heaven is best? Erebus in the Balance is serious and balanced but I keep playing Rise From Erebus because I want to get all the mana combos, reach Omnipotence and be able to obliterate even an Auric Ascended 1 on 1. I know that it just turns into an unfun game of pouring a bunch of retardedly strong buffs onto Battlemages and wandering around the map like murderhoboes until lag and boredom make me quit. But the dream lives on!Any FFH recommendations to reach a synthesis between dumb fun and reason?
>>624700Serfdom is only a 50% boost and comes too late when most of your good tiles should be improved by turn 100. Hell, engineering is a reasonably common tech goal for its trebuchets and improved road movement. Despite that the hagia sophia wonder held there is almost never built for its worker rate boost, too weak a benefit for its cost when you may be close to running out of stuff for workers to do. It creates rare great engineer points for a future mining corp but that's it.If you are not spiritual you never will use serfdom, period. Anarchy's not worth swapping from slavery which you should have been in from earlier. >but golden ages!That's the time to adopt caste system and run a ton of specialists to make use of the +100% gpp while it lasts. No room for serfdom there. That means grooming a few cities that want to be as big as possible before the golden age, but the rest will want to use slavery as usual.Since you mention mp there is a use for serfdom there: renaissance and later starts. You still want slavery first to whip your first cities, they begin with 3+ pop and no improved tiles, but once you have like 10 workers serfdom becomes good until you transition to caste system workshops in every tile. This takes some time in renaissance but comes very fast in industrial starts.
I'm so shit at this game,the ai always attacks me with infinite stacks and is always ahead in technology.
>>625058Try a game where you build literally zero wonders. Build a lot of cottage improvements and use your production on libraries and markets. Keep a decent standing army at all times; you don't have to be #1 military, but never be last. Also, chop forests and/or use slavery to pop rush those libraries, etc. Trade tech aggressively also: get a tech no one has and, on the same turn, trade it to everyone you know for techs you don't have, even if you get a "bad" deal.Wonders are the biggest newbie trap. There are cases in which almost all wonders are worth building to be clear. But the best possible way to lose is to spend the early game building wonders and not producing workers, settlers, military, and libraries.
>>625058Adding to what the other anon already said:If you don't have AT LEAST two military units per city and 3rd for garrison duty, you're for a whooping from AI.
>>624998>50%>onlyI mean the rest of argument can stick, but your dismissive attitude toward halving the fucking time needed to finish tile improvements kind of spoils it
>>624700Have you played a single game of Multiplayer Civ 4 in your life? EVERYONE uses Slavery, and abuses it quite heavily. In fact, Slavery is significantly MORE important in MP because aggression is king and it's absolutely vital for players to be able to raise an army as quickly as possible, whether they're attempting to attack or defend.I would laugh like an idiot if my neighbor wasted his time in a garbage civic like Serfdom not building anything while I whipped out 30 Knights and completely overran his empire as he scrambles unable to do a damn thing about it.
>>62509150% faster as in 150% speed. Not twice as fast. Because truncation that means its best case is 1/3 less turns for a worker job, but it's often less. The worst case in normal speed is building roads, these take 2 turns in most terrain, 3 turns in desert and tundra. So when roading everything but these it still takes 2 turns, no help from serfdom at all.
>>6248692 workers can improve tiles once every 3-4 turns. The only way to grow size 5+ cities this fast is to have more than one food source exclusively for them. If you do that, you're an idiot. It's almost always better to make more cities that share food, work more total land area and stay below the happy cap than place fewer cities in "perfect" spots.Or maybe you farm all your grasslands tiles, which means you're doing a specialist economy and caste is obviously better.
>>625171>EVERYONE uses Slavery>t. whip-boy being whipped in a multiCope, seethe, dilate, hold hands
>>625231If you possesed even a yota of reading comprehension, you would notice he never suggested it's twice as fast, but always just said 50% increase.But what else to expect from a whipper than being a barely educated retard
>>626111>It's almost always better to make more cities that share food, work more total land area and stay below the happy cap than place fewer cities in "perfect" spots.>t. still playing Civ 2 and still deluded about ICS
Civ5 fag here, trying 4 for the first time, i like most of the differences but holy shit how do i gitgud with this stack faggotry? It seems that even if i build a bunch of archers in a city with walls, the enemy would endlessly assult it without any castualties on my side but how do i deal with actualy going on the offence since im still stuck with 500 penalties on the attack? Is the trick to have 50 canons in every army? The AI just out expands me in the earlygame through rng bullshit and later i get outproduced by them having more land and losing the science race since they can pay a higher military budget while i lose all my science to survive the arms race.Recommend me some good videos on learning the game in depth.I watched RazingHel' tutorial but that was beginner tier and just lazy "guy talks without script to unedited gameplay", if this is (((the best civ))) where is the quality shit?
>>626731>holy shit how do i gitgud with this stack faggotry?Consult >>625067 >>625088, especially the bit where you should have sufficient number of troops yourself.Also, don't be afraid of stacks, they are VERY managable thanks to collateral damage to the entire stack done by siege weapons.What difficulty are you playing at?>where is the quality shitThis game was made before your times. This means there were no youtubers doing letsplays nor video guides. Civfanatics forum is your friend, so is Apolyton. You know... reading.Part of the "problem" with people that started with 5 is that it's so radically different from 1-4, it's very hard to get what's even going on, while if you started anywhere at 1-4, you had zero problem transiting to 5. So at least it's not that you are an idiot or something, it's that you got the short end of the stick.
>>625231I think the obsession some people have with % of tile improvement speed comes from C2C. In vanilla, it's an almost useless stat. In C2C, when things take a fuckload of time to finish (especially if you jump the gun of tile improvement tech, but not workers), even a 5% increase is a big deal. Because improvements can easily last 6-8 turns, despite 5 or more EXPERIENCED workers being stacked on it.And as we all know, once you start C2C, there is virtually no going back to vanilla. On top of that, slavery is reworked in it, so the actual civic is something you won't stick to, but slavery as part of your economy will easily serve you until early Industrial or so.So I'm suspecting the other anon is simply playing a lot of C2C.
>>626731Winning wars is about numbers. You can whip + chop huge armies very quickly, a pretty early axe rush can be 10 to 15 axemen, for example. Up until renaissance, if you're planning a conquest, you should set your slider to zero and whip ALL your economy into an army.
>>626767>>626784Not only is the stack thing an issue but also that combat is so final and defenders have a big advantage, in civ5 units would take a few turns to kill eachother but here NOPE everyone fights to whipeout on first attack except for cavseriously i ragequit because of this shit, that horesefucker who hates my guts just declares war on me and is 2 turns within striking distance of my capitol, seriously i would never even consider the AI being able to launch a successful invasion across another players territory because of 1UPT traffic jams here, the kyoto warrior police are doomed even though its just a chariot and spearman comingwhats to stop the ai (minus intelligence) from just walking by all my border towns accross hills and woods and striking my inner soft cities? the defence bonus terrain gives is huge!
>>626863Just 1 pop whip a war elephant or an axeman, what's the problem here? At this point of the game you should be conquering your neighbour anyway.
>>626731>Is the trick to have 50 canons in every army? Kind of. You're probably not building enough military either way, at the very least you should have at least one dedicated troop factory autoproducing soldiers, and yeah, if you're assaulting cities especially in medieval era you should have a lot of artillery backing you up. Give your artillery city raider, it's better to have a chance to keep them alive than get a small boost to collateral damage.
>>626863>seriously i would never even consider the AI being able to launch a successful invasion across another players territory because of 1UPT traffic jams hereThat's why Civ5 is a shit game. I generally avoid the Civ5/Civ4 shitflinging because people get autistic and defensive, but this is hilarious, what were you expecting? Your capital is two tiles away from foreign borders and guarded by one gang of stone age niggers with sticks and rocks, and you're building a temple, of course some guys on horses are going to swing by and take it. At the very least you should have already had a plan for how to get troops there in 1-2 turns. This is a strategy game, you have to plan ahead and anticipate what your enemies are able to do.
>>626962You're actually being too generous.Look at that screenshot again:> 1120 AD> cities guarded by archers & warriors> researching code of laws> economy's fucked> neighbor cities defended by fat stack of longbows> just now building temples and markets> several 10+ pop cities are working unimproved tilesThe problem is clearly doomstacks
>>626863You do know you can chop the forests, right? Removing the defensive bonus for invaders is just one more reason to chop EVERYTHING in your borders by turn 50 never mind 170. Build two workers per city (not as many needed per city later on), connect food resources, connect cities by road, chop forests in your borders and sometimes outside of them, lay down cottages to fund city maintenance should be your prorities when starting the game. That's the gist of all the opening move optimization guides for noobs from the last decade or so.Given your civ5 background forest chopping there is perhaps even stronger. 20 hammers same as a pre-maths chop in IV, forests are 1/1 same as a bare plains, and other worker improvements suck in general too except for connecting luxuries.
>>626977>bro just know the 15 year old meta of this game you have about 10 hours inshouldnt i want to keep archers for upgrading into machineguns? I read on the forums that they get strong upgrades>>626987is it that important? Shouldnt i try to have a few around for when lumbermills come online? I read they're the best source of production in the gamethis whore attacked me again with some meme army but thats not really the point, how do i deal with gayreece's cultural borders expanding? building culture buildings? the culture slider thing? does it just give culture and happiness (both useless i assume)? why would you ever pump that up instead of science unless your empire is really unhappydo i just build a bunch of weebs and trebs then try to go to war despite him being the top dog?
>>627323AI overbuilding archers was maybe its biggest weak spot back in vanilla days. It still does that in bts but it improved a lot since then.I bet your unit upgrade mindset comes from later civs. Civ4 doesn't reward unit upgrading as much as 5 and 6 do. In these it's cheaper to upgrade from obsolete units than to rush buy modern units, in civ4 the cost formula for these is about the same I think? 3 gold per hammer cost? And both are niche strategies here, useful from time to time but not the way you will build most of your armies mist of the time. Anyways just focus on building the strongest available units. Protip: they tend to require strategic resources, the exception is the musketman/rifleman era you are about to reach in your game.Lumbermills are a giant meme and you got trolled hard. Food resources (feeding slavery) and hill mines are your main sources of hammers generally. By the time lumbermills unlock workshops are already near their full potential without forcing you to cripple yourself 100 turns ago.The best way to proceed would be to conquer Pericles. Why the fuck do you have another continent explored but are in the dark about your own? If you can't trade for maps build explorers to defog your neighbors minus Catherine I guess. They will be allowed even without open borders just like caravels can. You are the only one in hinduism, adopt the religion of whatever neighbor you have good relations with. Try to get help against Catherine right now or vs Pericles later.Do you have gunpowder and nationalism yet? Japan is one of the worst civs in 4 but its one upside is that drafted units receive a ton of free promotions. Swap to nationhood asap to draft musketmen to defend from the russians. It may or may not be worth it to wait for rifling before attacking Pericles, that depends on what you can do with diplomacy.
>>626731>>626863I genuinely can't tell anymore if this is bait or serious posting
>>627323>>bro just know the 15 year old meta of this game you have about 10 hours inNta, but nigger, let me put it blunt:This is all fucking obvious moves, rather some sort of mysterious meta of high-tier, high-experience player. You are getting butthurt for the fact you are playing Civ 4 as if it was still Civ 5. Never fucking occured to you that the AI is neither retarded nor rendered impotent due to inability to stack after spending 10 hours of playing?Just from you screen I can see that you have no fucking clue what you are doing. Not in "I'm new and inexperienced" sense, but "I'm just doing random moves"I'll bet you skipped more than 10 turns, doing absolutely nothing, just pressing Enter.
>>626704That's not wrong though, and it's not ics. Cities should be settled closer when the terrain is fertile. Put food resources, floodplains and grassland into use asap. 10 good tiles already is enough to justify a city even if there's overlap, in fact you want food specials to be overlapped by different cities if possible.Tl;dr more food = denser city spacing.
>>627928>If you don't plan to have more than 10 pops ever in your cities, just cram them closer!When a whip-boy is also an ICS fag
>>627931If you're such hot shit, prove it in a game.
>>628024Gib e-mail, scrub
>>627323Archers are only useful in the classical age. Even then you only need a couple for frontline cities, not 10. Remember they cost you maintenance, a gold or so each. Try deleting some and see how that affects your economy. You also don't need a colosseum in a 5pop city. What you need is to spam your strongest units, Samurai in large numbers. Why is a Samurai guarding Tokyo as well, thats something a warrior could do. If they attack in that direction 1 Samurai won't guard the city, you'll need your whole army. Generally speaking, don't play Japan. Possibly the weakest civ in the entire game. Play Carthage and England: they have much stronger economies. Rome has a better military and better eco. Japan has garbage traits, garbage UB and a mediocre UU.
How do I stay strong in the late to mid game? I start off strong but slowly decline after there's no more room for me to rush settlers into
only ever played Civ Revolutions on PS3, where does it rank in the Civ Universe? I quite enjoyed it, are the others much better and worth getting into?
>>628369Check out civ6, it's great fun.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyq4gWTSb7M
>>628369Civ rev is like civ 2 but expanded a lot.If you want more features but liked the formula, 4 is the way to go
>>628386Thanks for the tip, will remember this when PS4/5s drop in price and can be picked up on the cheap like the PS3 stuff has been for a few years now.Love to stay behind the curve and get the whole choice for pennies.
>>628392sry, i am slow to notice thanks, thanks too
>>628166>I rushed all the land that was>Yet I'm decliningHave you tied, dunno, build tile improvements and buildings in those cities you set up?
>>628386>Suggesting to anyone 6
>>627542Is drafting better than the extra XP from vassalage? should i still have slavery this late in the game? All my tiles are improved and i dont see a purpose for workers untill railroad gets discovered>>627825>>627842im litteraly plowing through Hellens unopposed, every battle is just catapults shooting defences for 3/4 turns then samurai and musketmen whiping out defenders, I guess Vox Populi spoiled me, i was expecting counter attacks on my weaker cities or atleast them attacking my smaller reinforcing troops because they have all these roads but nope>>628144I randomed.
>>628448You're literally on -1 science per turn, your economy is collapsing. If you take any more cities you're probably going to go onto strike. AI will soon have industrial age gear. I honestly think you've lost the game.TOO MANY UNITS not enough commerce. This game is about making tough choices. You spammed too many units without the economy to back it up.
>>628476Is it realy that bad? I stopped building army and traded up a bunch of techs to catch up the AI, Malians became my vassals volunterily (whats the deal wtih that? is that good?) and im still plowing through greece with athens taken. Should I eliminate them or leave one eskimo town?
>>624960master of mana or master of mana Xtended.
Soulless game only contrarian zoomers could enjoy.
>>628448drafting is obscenely strong
>>628502it's not that bad at all because you just nuked your main competitor. now just focus on econ and you're fine.just remember to kill mansa musa on general principle
>>628502>Should I eliminate them or leave one eskimo town?eliminate so you don't get any motherland unhappiness. only accept capitulation if he's about to vassalize to someone else, or you have a better target for your armies.
>>628557I agree, 5 is awful.
>>628103>>628571Keep us posted I'm enjoying this
>>628448>AI in industrial age graphics>still no sign of any gunpowder unitsDamn, what the fuck did it even research? You're in luck, attacking immediately was the right move. Better to win with your musketman edge while you have it.Vassalage's better than bureaucracy for you right now. Nationhood is better still, draft at least one musketmen per city to get the war finished sooner. If you're not in slavery swapping to it's probably not worth it. Save your population and happy cap for the draft. Maybe consider caste system instead but it will only be useful for the post war. Caste workshops are already better than lumbermills even before communism, massively better after. If you get into short term money trouble, build wealth in your cities. That should get you covered until greek cities come out of resistance.
>>628908m8 that stack is half muskets
>>628448are you playing vanilla?
>>629021Sure, but a third of it is longbowmen, absolute fodder on the offense, only really good to stay back in conquered cities. The capital has too much stuff defending, even with bombarment there will be losses. Drafting 80 hammer muskets for 1 pop is the most cost effective way to replenish losses and kill Pericles before he can tech to riflemen.
>>619671Not that anon, but why would you not whip? Your population grows way faster than the happiness and health limits of your cities allow in the early game. You can't have anything to do for that amount of excess population. The only thing you could do is to try and run a specialist economy but that is never going to get you a lot of production.
Can any civ4 connoisseurs tell me why civ4 is the best one in the series instead of the more modern and updated games such as VI and V?
>>629863>Your population grows way faster than the happiness and health limits of your cities allow in the early gameThis is your mind on whipping. Stay safe, stay clean - say no to endless whip
>>630570Setup that email game instead of talking shit
>>630554Because it's the last one to be a strategy with planning, both long- and short-term involved, other than "muh graphics" dopamine booster where you roll over utterly incompetent AI.
>>630554Calling V an "updated" version of IV doesn't really make sense. IV is more in line with previous games in the series; it refines various mechanics so that they all work very well together and the focus is still on expansion and growth to create a mighty empire. V's primary concern was to distinguish it from IV, which it did by being more experimental with basically all of the mechanics previously established to be good, and the end result is a mess where a lot stuff doesn't make sense and that the AI doesn't know how to play. I haven't played VI so I don't know if it's an improvement over V, but so far I've yet to hear anything good about it so I've seen no reason to download it.You should turn that question around and ask, why bother going for the latest entry in a long-running series instead of trying the games that made the series a success in the first place?
>>630570Whoa what an insightful arguement. Proof to me how you get above the health and happiness limits from the get go and never slowdown your growth. Also no one was talking about endlessly whipping. It's about whipping to get what you want in the early game while keeping your population in check before they die of disease or riots.
>>630900I got into civ with civ3 and I played 3 and 4 the most by far. I played a couple of hundred hours of 5 but I never really liked it, especially because of the city states and the balance of the different civs.4 is my favourite but I don't think it refines that much. The culture mechanics that expand your borders is dumb, I think 5 does it better by having a way to make you claim specific tiles. However 5 didn't went all the way and made those tiles part of trade negotiations so you can settle border disputes diplomatically. Great people mechanic is okay in 4, it was trash in 3 but it still has issues in 4. For example you are incentivized to make 1 town your great people generator instead of spreading their generation. I didn't like the way religion was handeled in 4 it was way too strong diplomatically and divided the world in a couple of alliances that set the tone for the rest of the game. Naval units were shit in 3 and they are still mostly shit 4 (and 5, no real improvement here). The victory conditions in 4 are also kinda lacklustre because they are very similar to 3, I think 5 did a slightly better job here.
>>6305545 and 6 do not spark joy. There is no FFH, no C2C, no autists that spend hours making a different paintjob 3D model for various nations T-72s in their mod they've been developing for a decade. This isn't an opinion, it's a verifiable, empirical fact.Civ 5 is simplistic, mass-market sound-good-plays-bad nonsense. Nobody wants to play traffic-jam-simulator: the tactical element is just pretend depth. There's always a correct decision, you're not making trade-offs. Same with nu-culture, tech, money. You get to 'choose' which of the next upgrades you get rather than really choosing: making a sacrifice. In civ 4 you make a real choice between Free Market (a lot more commerce and better corporations - if you can get them) Mercantilism (sacrifices commerce for specialists) or later State Property (no corps but more industry, food and lower maintenance). That's a real choice, you have to consider if you have vassals for trade routes even with Mercantilism, how integral corporations are to your economy or whether you just need a bit more production now. In 5 you 'choose' the next buff, there is no opportunity cost. The AI is totally braindead, diplomacy is super-opaque and you're punished for expanding. In 4 you get to see why the AI likes/hates you, expansion is an investment that pays off later on and the AI is decently smart.
>>630900>You should turn that question around and ask, why bother going for the latest entry in a long-running series instead of trying the games that made the series a success in the first place?Because that unironically filters out people who started with 5. This is one of those scenarios where the gameplay is altered so much and AI is so incompetent in the newest entry that going back from such starter point means bouncing from the wall.>>631201Consider comparing Civ 3, introducing various ideas (bonuses of specific civs, unique units, borders, culture, resources, great people, small/national wonders etc) with 4, which expanded on all those mechanics.Then tell me with straight face you don't see the refinement.
>>631865Serious question:Are there even any mods for 5 or 6?
>>632083Well there are but they're shit. Look at the steam most subscribed. Ingame editor is basically worldbuilder (comes with civ4). There's a unitpack. A couple more UI mods and an Earth map. They have a GoT mod that doesn't even change the technologies: not even a full Total conversion, let alone anything like FFH. The 30th most subbed mod is Civ 4 diplomatic features, which tells you a lot.Civ 6 is fucking barren, all just UI and icons.
>>632083no because firaxis deliberately fucked up modding for some reasonprobably because they don't want modders to make a better game than them
>>632083Civ 5 unironically targets zoomers, and zoomers can't install mods unless there is a steam feature for that, not to mention making their own. As a result, there isn't even demand for those.
>>608293I think there are still some new mods which are either really good as is or have been developed recently. Most are mod mods. I believe Dune may have just come out with a modmod revamp. C2C is still under development.>>614718Just edit the historical territory in worldbuilder. You can even directly change your stability in the “storeddata” section of worldbuilder.
>>632083Vox Populi is supposedly the best mod for 5, but I've never tried it because it's difficult to install apparently.
>playing realism invictus world map as Russia>Southern India marches a huge stack all the way through the Middle East and the Caucasus and then attacks meWhy the fuck does the AI do this? I also saw the German AI march an army through my land to India.
>>632669Maybe the AI was friendly with its neighbors and redirected its aggression into far away civs. Who declares on who is a matter of dice rolls, shared border are one factor among many.
>>632754That is just laughable. Oh, and Israel controls Northern India’s capital.
>>632487Vox Populi is utter fucking shit, literally not worth the transfer and time needed to download it. It takes Civ 5 and makes it twice as retarded as it was already.
>>632809Well if elitists hate it then it must be good. Thanks for the recommendation!
>>632909Thanks for the recommendation. If it's hated by elitists, then it must be good.
>>632912What fucking elitists? What the fuck you are even babbling about?It's a bad mod that somehow makes already lackluster Civ 5 even worse: bugged, with unbalanced mechanics and utterly broken AI script. How's that a recommendation?
>>633423Oh, hey elitist. Still makes you upset to see people having fun and enjoying a game? Kinda sad, to be honest.
>>633569Either it's some convoluted attempt at bait, or you're genuinely retarded and just sprouting random bullshit
>>633573Every single entry in the Civilization series has some merit to it, every single entry can be enjoyed. Everybody has a favorite, but when you REEE and cry "not muh" at the very thought of an entry other than your favorite, then that's just sad. Give V a chance sometime, it's actually pretty fun.
>>633586... so you are just sprouting random nonsense that has zero bearing with what was said.Noted
I'm still waiting for that email game, if not with the anti-slavery retard then with anyone else.
>>633586I agree that 5 has merit to it. Religion, the World Congress, and the Cultural Victory conditions are all more enjoyable in V than IV. There are plenty of mods for IV which—either before or after V’s release—added these features, so it’s clear that people want them. Of course there’s drawbacks and for the style of play I like, I prefer IV.I also don’t know shit about VI, but I expect to play it this weekend with friends so we’ll see if it has anything to justify its atrocious quotes and artstyle.
>>633586>guy doesn’t like something>oh my god, he hates that other people are having fun. what an elitist!I fucking hate you retards so much.
>>632080I do see the refinement of 4 but 4 is much more similar to 3 than most people suggest. The culture mechanic is barely refined in 4 and is mostly just as bad as it was in 3 but with the addition of culture bombs. Cultural victory feels tacked on in both 3 and 4, I like the luxuries like hit movies, etc. though. I think resources are also bad in both civ 3 and 4 because your allowed to build infinite numbers of units as long as you have access to a single resource of the type you need. Great people are still very gimmicky in 4, it incentivizes you to make 1 great person city which also incentivizes you to build a lot of wonders in that specific city.The best improvements 4 made on 3 I think are. the tech tree, tile improvemenst, civics and government mechanics and production spillover. Most of the techs are very usefull and there's no era gates you need to pass. Tile improvemtents come in more variatries that allow for different strategies. Civics allow for more different governments, shorter anarchy periods and also made the tech tree more interesting by making those civics part of specific techs. I also like the unique buildings of civ 4.
>>633797>Limited resources are good, trust me!Spotted the Civ 5 retard who finds 4 units to be a huge army.Also, reading through your post is like reading through a poorly-though bait, where the entire goal is just to say "nu-uh, it's the same"
>>633812Yet you can only respond in hyperboles. I never said anything about specific units numbers. I agree that the numbers in 5 could be bigger, it feels to small with lower numbers of cities and units. But consider this:>have a single source of oil.>you can now support unlimited numbers mechanized units, planes, ships, etc.Wouldn't it make sense and improve strategy to add some limitations to resources? How do you think people would like Hearts of Iron if one province having a resource would meet any demand you could have? I'm not arguing specific unit numbers because that is a discussion that is more about balance but I think it was the right call to have limitations on quantity.Some mechanics in civ 4 are barely changed at all compared to their counterparts in 3 and are therefore almost identical to the point that it is really stretching it calling it by calling them refinements.
>>633797The first half of your post reads like you've barely touched Civ 4, and the second half like you're trying to list things from Civ 4 just to prove you've played it.
>>633889Nice ad hominem, why don't you try dicussing the game instead.
>>614897Settings matter and many civ unique units too. Organized improves a lot if you play on a map with a lot of water, making its cheap lighthouses relevant. My list of good leaders goes: >financialMansa, Victoria, Pacal, Hauyna, Darius, Willem.>without financialBoth romans, both egyptians, Pericles, Gandhi, Louis, Kublai, Suleiman.I guess I am really big on financial and on combinations of other early traits like imperialistic, creative, or expansive with mid game traits like spiritual, industrious, organized, philosophical or industrious.
>>633954While I'm at it Saladin is by far my #1 worst leader, there's literally only one good thing about him with the spiritual trait. The rest is all bottom of the barrel.
>>633896That's not what an ad hominem is. As for discussing the game, I remember you from other threads (where you said the same thing almost verbatim) and I doubt anything will get through to your autistic head.Since you're clearly uninformed about the game mechanics despite how opinionated you want to be, all I can say is that for the sake of discussion it's better to ask questions than to spout stupid shit.
>>633963>The first half of your post reads like YOU've barely touched Civ 4Am I reading this wrong or are you implying I haven't played the game, while you could have adressed any arguement instead.>>633963>I remember you from other threadsI haven't been in other threads. The one shutting down discussion is you. Explain to me how cultural borders of 4 is a refinement of 3? Both mechanics are a missed opportunity. Borders and tiles could have been part of diplomacy in which you could trade them during peace treaties or other deals. Tell me how resources are refined in 4, 3 and 4 handle them largely the same and both could have done a lot better. Most of the scenarios in 3 need to have victory points because resources have little importance after you already have 1 of it's kind. For great people tell me how it's such a great system if it incentivizes you to concentrate their generation? I think the great people mechanic of 4 is the best iteration of it in all of the civ games but I think there is too much focus on this mechanic at the expensive of other systems like diplomacy or your government/civics. Great people are really powerful in civ 4 but maximizing their creation is too gamey. If you are so informed on the matter than please share that vast information.
>>634018Civ4 does change cultural rules coming from 3. In civ3 a new city was always granted the initial radius regardles of culture, in practice enabling you to encroach on a neighbors territory by planting new cities on the border to steal tiles regardless their culture. Civ 4 calcs the culture total by each civ on a tile and gives control to the one with most culture, simple as that. Culture flips in civ 3 were mostly random and any garrisoning units were killed if the city they were in revolted to a rival, civ4 solved both issues. And a new feature is that a city's defense depends on its culture and is the only source after walls are obsoleted, rewarding the use of siege units when attacking cities from your rivals unless they are so new they didn't have any time to accumulate culture.At this point you are merely whining that some mechanics were carried without being massively overhauled from civ3 to civ4 when that happens in all games of the serie minus for the first one. Have you ever seen the XML files for civ5? They carry over a lot of their scheme from the civ4 XML files, to the point there's a lot of wasted space in them bringing up global defines for mechanics that were originally from 4 and are not used at all in 5.
>>634032Was that so hard? It has been to long since I've played 3, I had forgotten that. I agree that that is a refinement, I concede on that. I do think they could have done something different though because the culture borders were one of the bigger overhauls in 3. It was a bad idea to take from SMAC and in most cases it just wasn't fun in civ3. It could have died there in favour of something different in civ4. As for the defence based on culture, I'm not too sure if I like it. I understand the idea behind it but I never liked the need to sacrifice collateral damage units against defended cities. Since the older civ games use bigger maps maybe they could have made a mechanic that makes you siege cities by surrounding them.
>>634084>Was that so hardNta, but are you really retarded?You were told up-front that you have no clue what you are talking and how pointless it is to talk with you at all, given your track record. Then the anon made the mistake and engaged you, and what came out of it? "Huh, you could have a civil discussion from the start".Problem is, you don't want to have discussion, you want (You)s and attention, you stupid whore. Otherwise you wouldn't be pulling the same shit FOURTH FUCKING TIME
Stop talking shit and PBEM with me. Give me your temp mail addresses and timezones, preferably euro time.
>>614870>t. doesn't understand why hexes are being usedWhy?
>>632669>playing world map as Arabia>France marches a huge stack all the way through Europe and the Mediterranean and then attacks me
>>634390Nta, but hexes were originally introduced in tabletop minis for the sake of simplifying things: no need for measure tap and in the same time no math needed to solve diagonals in square-based grid.So in other words, hexes are dumbing down of any given rules for easier accessibility. Only for retards to assume that hexes are better, because battle minis use them, without understanding it's a deliberate simplification to make tourney play faster and missing the fact that simplification is useless when you have a PC to do possible measurements and computations.Fast forward about 30 years and we live in a world where people display a specific subset of "red one goes faster", by considering hexes to be better just because, not due to their actual merit.t. mini-fag
>>636224They were crusading
>>636224The base game AI does that all the time. Montezuma will come for you, even if he has to march through a civ or two to get to you.
Thoughts on researching polytheism or meditation first? Is it worth?
>>637260If you have mysticism, some commerce and are on monarch or lower... sure. IMO early religions are a waste of effort. Getting that prophet will take you time, only then does it really pay off.
>>637260In short, only if you warrior rush.Above noble, if there's some other mysticism civ and it goes for the same tech you will lose. Even if not the religion is only a weak long term benefit, and you've delayed worker improvements by 10+ turns. The delay matters less if you build not a worker but warriors to conquer neighbor capitals, works great until the computer tarts with archers at monarch. With the incans you could do that at deity but imo it's safer to to ignore religion. There's pretty good odds you can target a neighbor that founded one of the religions anyways.
>>626863>in civ5 units would take a few turns to kill eachotherLmao, I've never thought Civ 5 is that much awful.
last week's noob here, gooming only on the weekends because such is the wagecuck lifeI killed Greece easily, by the time those scary canons and granediers showed up, he was down to two arctic shitholes, Mansa stole one of the cities because miscalculated my attacks and by not finishing off the wounded defenders on time but he's my nigga so i'll let him keep itEmpire is going good but it seems like my economy went into the shitter again, probably bad civics? Whats the deal with corporations? They're like religions but do i have to only establish headquarters in big cities? Should i spread every religion type to each city so i can build all the religious buildings since i've got nothing better to produce?Ruskis stole Pharsalos with culture shenangians while it was freshly captured, could i take it back without war somehow?
>>638088Not without war, no.Establish all corps in a single good city, build the wall street and other gold multipliers there and spread the corp to all cities. You have mining inc and it's good. This late most building won't pay back before the game ends. Build either military, or wealth to increase your slider %.Multiple religions are only for a cultural victory. Are you going for culture, space, or domination? If culture spread each religion to 6 cities, built temples in them to unlock cathedrals in your best commerce cities, and shift all your income to the culture slider. You had better be running free speech for all those towns in former greece and free market for the corporations. Probably emancipation because all the other AIs must be in it already, Pacifism or free religion depending on diplomacy, and pick one of representation or universal suffrage.
>>630554V penalises you heavily for city count, even if you lose those cities later onAnd you need to fix the broken vanilla game design by buying all the DLCs, which are still ruddy expensive
>>638088Religion buildings are mostly not worth it. If you have nothing good to build, then build wealth or units to conquer the next guy. And please turn on tile yields.
>>638088If you're serious about corporations you need courthouses in every city and the wall street in the headquarters, and you should found all of them in the same city. Factories in production cities are probably the other thing you need, be careful putting them in your size 15+ cities. And check victory conditions to see if there's any rivals nearing a cultural victory. You should have at least one city working farms to support a lot of specialists all the time, the first golden ages are worth it and there's a lot of techs that can be lightbulbed by scientists especially. If you are behind in tech, beelining and building the internet can be worth it.
>>639992Everything that this anon said, except the last bit>If you are behind in tech, beelining and building the internet can be worth it.Internet shows up so late in the tech tree, you are unironically better off not building any, except for denial strategy (which assumes you lead in tech, rather than lag behind). It's too late, too little to have any actual impact
Name a better government civic in C2C than Matriarchy>Accessible almost as soon as you sit down for Sedimentary>15% less food needed for pop-growth>Implied dommie mommieYou grow so fucking fast, everyone who isn't under Mommie's care gets behind HARD.Once you can get Subsidized and then Commie Agriculture, you can switch to whatever else, but prior to that, Matriarchy wins due to simple pop-growth bonus