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its no masterpiece
>>
only complaint i ever really had with it is how incentivized you are to just yari spam the whole game. i really wanted to run around with samurai armies but it wasnt worth the effort by the time i was able.
>>
>>555929
It's not a masterpiece, but TW peaked here

>>555976
it's not incentivized, it's more of there's no drawback to yari spam.
Darthmod fixes this though.
>>
>>555929
It was the prototype for what would have been the greatest game CA ever made, and the one that would have made them a mainstream success without Parodox-style DLC.

That game never got made and never will, because CA don't understand what Shogun 2 did right and tossed it all out to make disguised spreadsheets instead.
>>
>>555982
>It was the prototype for what would have been the greatest game CA ever made
If anything medieval 2 would be that game, but after it they moved to warscape and fucked everything up still loved empire though for the era and scale if nothing else.
>>
>>555929
Yes, it's the worst Total War due to garbage setting that drags entire game down and makes both battles and campaign map utterly shit.
>>
File: 1415007672150.gif (2.4 MB, 250x188)
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>"japanese" dialogue
>height doesn't matter for archers, all have same range thanks to warscape
>>
>>555982
>the greatest game CA ever made
that's Medieval 1
>>
>>555929
I think shogun 2 is a masterpiece
>>
>>556056
You can mod it

It’ll be like that in shogun 3
With the machine learning AI
>>
>>556094
can't mod the archers height since it's an engine thing.
>>
Fun game honestly
Not sure what went so wrong with Rome 2 after this
>>
>>556344
they didnt have enough time to make it properly. the ancient world is considerably larger than feudal japan
>>
>>556347
It's not like Rome 2 had a significant breadth of content at release though.
>>
>>555929
neither is your mom but everyone played with her anyway
>>
>>555929
Reminder that Yari Ashigaru are still the best infantry in the game
>>
does this use the same voice pack as AoE3: Asian Dynasties? I could swear I've heard these before.
>>
I personally love the game, but I do have some notable complaints

1: Ceiling for gunpowder units extremely high, means matchlock ashigaru are basically useless

2: Kisho ninja are a really cool class, but dev oversight resulted in clan unique versions being objectively WORSE than the base version

3: For the Otomo clan, the unique Portuguese Terco unit is both easier to recruit and objectively better than Matchlock Samurai, which not only makes a powerful samurai unit useless (when samurai-only armies is the backbone of mid-late game Christian armies), but is also problematic as it turns the revolution from within into a full blown foreign invasion

4: Diplomacy is outright useless in the base game, full stop

5: For some reason only ashigaru-tier spear units get Yari Wall, which makes them a shockingly broken class in early-mid game, and really takes the wind out of Yari Samurais’ sails
>>
>>556872
>but is also based as it turns the revolution from within into a full blown foreign invasion
FTFY, japan's rightful rulers are the Portuguese.
>>
>>556889
>Not taking the best elements of Bushido and Christian Chivalry to forge the ultimate enlightened warrior class
>>
>>556872
>5: For some reason only ashigaru-tier spear units get Yari Wall, which makes them a shockingly broken class in early-mid game, and really takes the wind out of Yari Samurais’ sails
Yari Ki are the real reason Yari Samurai aren't very useful. They're strong mobile cav counters and they're good at it, if you don't have access to cavalry there's plenty of reasons to bring Yari Samurai.
But cavalry are easily available and the yari ki does the yari samurais job better.
>>
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>>555929
Eh, you can always mod the shit out of it since it's a decade old game. If you go for S2 ultimate immersion or just expanded japan you'll never go back to the vanilla game.
>>
>>557154
>expanded japan
I personally hate expanded japan, it just makes it so you basically only end up playing siege battles or defend while you are sieging down the enemy province which is just boring.
>>
>>557160
Yeah, that's basically what most of IRL sengoku warfare was like.
>>
>>557166
I guess it's realistic but it's also not fun at all for me, I generally dislike fighting sieges in total war games, the only exception being the settlements without walls.
>>
>>556014
>battles utterly shit
Let me guess, you haven't finished one single campaign but you think your one experience with yari walls on a hill is representative of the entire game
>>
>>557173
did you try strongholds of the samurai?
>>
>>557315
Yes, it does make the sieges less bland but I still dislike fighting siege battles.
>>
>>557315
Strongholds looks cool until you realize that it actually makes sieges miserable to play as the defender
>>
>>555929
AI is terrible. If you crank up the difficulty and it just spawns armies all the time, otherwise too easy.
Has there been any mod to fix the issue btw? I liked the game otherwise but AI just killed it for me.
>>
>>557974
>miserable to play as defender.
elaborate.
I think it makes them infinitely easier, since even the basic fort now comes with multiple
buffed towers and few levels of ramparts.
>>
>>558425
It's the shape, I have a hard time even making a straight line in those forts, and the inability to place units outside of it is just stupid, it basically makes cavalry worthless in siege defense since it takes so long for them to get out
>>
>>559008
cavalry in general is useless in sieges, both offensive and defensive (unless there's reinforcements coming in.)
I agree that the placement of the troops can be a problem in some of the forts, especially if you have larger squads (I played with 400 men ashigaru squads. it was pain.)
>>
>>559037
Cavalry in defensive sieges is absolutely not useless - if you just leave them inside the fort they're terrible but if you have them sally out to distract enemy units, attack enemies climbing the walls, and chase routers they can rack up a shocking amount of kills. A single unit of light cav/yari cav in a defensive siege is a massive force multiplier, at least against the AI.
>>
>>555929
nobody says it is. But it clearly is one of the best Total Wars.
>>
Favorite mods, lads?
>>
>>556092
this art looks so fucking bad
>>
>>557315
Kino, but AI tends to have a pathfinding nightmare on any custom siege maps I've played.
>>
>>559074
Huh. I should try that for defense game. Anyone have recommendations for custom match armies so I can practice outside story mode?
>>
>>556889
God imagine what a shithole Japan would be if it was a Portuguese colony.
>>
>>556889
Portugal lost any hope of controlling Japan when they boneheadedly started selling Japanese people into slavery. Once word of that got back to Toyotomi Hideyoshi that was it for the Portuguese.
>>
>>559074
Against Human players they're normally not expecting it and might not have much infantry to deal with cavalry, you can pose a significant threat to their archers / other units.
Especially if it's a ranged cav unit like Tokugawa rifles, Donderbuss or any of the ranged cav options in FotS they're godly at harassing units climbing walls and force your opponent to use units to screen his climbers or cover with archers.
>>
I’m excited for shogun 3 if they can just do shogun 2 but refined.

Like machine learning and little adjustments + added depth.

I love how it’s balanced like TF2 or company of heroes 2.
Head to head campaigns are a godsend.
It deserves more attention.
>>
>>555929
maybe not but it's still the best TW game ever
>>
>>556872
>dev oversight resulted in clan unique versions being objectively WORSE than the base version

I can't believe they still haven't fixed this. CA is pure garbage
>>
>>559612
Rights of Man road to Kyoto
>>
>>565719
>>559612
for smaller mods I'd say that SotS is mandatory
>>
>>557160
I like playing Ikko Ikki in it as having your castles be spread out in enclaves make for an interesting start.
>>
>Battle are too fast.
>The AI magically upgrading it's ashigaru to samurai every time they're in fog is infuriating.
>>
arr units rook same
the lack of variety gets boring fast
>>
>>569341
double digit IQ take
>>
>>555929
True, the campaign gets tedious after only about 15-20 turns once you've got a sizeable chunk of land.

There's enough variety of units and factions in other TW games that this doesn't happen in most other titles, but this game needed something more to keep the campaign interesting
>>
People arguing S2 lacks 'unit diversity' would be amazed to discover what lies in the strategy landscape beyond CA and Paradox. The idea that 'more = better' and 'unit diversity' is a thing; those exist only for Total War games and DLC factories. Players who value these things value novelty above all else; they are not really interested in gameplay that is well-designed or challenging.
>>
>>556527
SEGA really pushed CA hard during the development of Rome 2. They should have postponed it another year before releasing it.
At least nowadays it's gotten pretty good, I honestly like it more than Shogun 2 just because every faction in Shogun 2, besides for a few quirks, is exactly the fucking same.
>>
>>572294
>. Players who value these things value novelty above all else;
Indeed, they are brainlet children.
>they are not really interested in gameplay that is well-designed or challenging.
DRAGON WENT POOF
>>
>>573029
>very faction in Shogun 2, besides for a few quirks, is exactly the fucking same.
Honestly, why care about this? Total War lives and dies by the tightness of its battle mechanics, and R2's are amongst the worst of the series. Does it really matter that the factions have slightly deeper (but still superficia)l differences than the ones in Shogun 2?
>>
>>573042
Yes. Also even though I like Rome 2 more than Shogun 2 personally I still don't like Rome 2 much. Both suffer from being a mostly melee-unit focused game in an engine that was designed to work with line-battles in Empire so units blob about and don't actually fight correctly. Rome and Medieval 2 are both leagues ahead of Shogun 2 or Rome 2 in combat.
That said my favorite is honestly Napoleon TW because I love actual line battles and it's not a shitshow like Empire..
>>
>>573050
>Rome and Medieval 2
are they really? the AI in both is braindead, this is especially apparent with the Rome Remaster.
>>
>>573107
Yes because units in Rome and Med2 have weight behind them and don't phase into and out of each other. Also from what I've heard, the Rome Remaster AI is much worse than the classic AI for some reason.
>>
>>573121
>the Rome Remaster AI is much worse than the classic AI for some reason.
it literally isnt. the same AI issues that are present in the remaster are present in the original rome. people were blinded by nostalgia.
>>
>>572294
people who complain about S2 unir diversity think that yari ashigari and yari samurai fulfill the same role
>>
>>564500
What changes/additions besides fixing AI soulf be added to a Shogun 2 Remastered?
>>
>>556092
the fuck is that? Shill your shit art somewhere else
>>
>>555981
>>>>>Darthmod
>>
>>572294
agree
Shogun 1 is better game than Shogun 2 and you could beat it using 2 units
>>
>>573107
>the AI in both is braindead, this is especially apparent with the Rome Remaster.
I've been playing both the remaster and Rome 2 and honestly they're not noticeably different in terms of ability.
The Rome 1 AI withdraws from fights on occasion is the only major difference I could say.
>>
Sadly CA destroyed pike units in Medival 2 and consequently pike and shot tactics as a whole
>>
>>576023
I feel like a fucking space alien for agreeing with this, everybody else seems to dickride Med 2 and treat it as a flawless masterpiece, I don't fucking get it between stuff like this and how delayed unit orders/responsiveness are. Med 2 was a massive step back in quality in terms of combat from Rome 1 and was even missing stuff like population being affected by recruitment, settlement viewer and other things
>>
>>576040
yeah
agree
i feel like all these guys that med 2 was first tw game and they only played mods
vanilla med 2 was much much worse quality compared to vanilla rome
also you are not alone
>>
>>574087
Machine learning
More diplomacy depth
More choices
More just more

Also a head to head arena
Like a hot seat with 100 players with each playing a faction
Or like 4-6 players on a tiny part of the island

Also more unit variants
I wanted like a hundred more kind of units in fall of the samurai.
Also more unit cosmetic variations.

Each province was a different ethnicity and culture beyond ultimately being Japanese.

Also the Boshin war had huge unit variations. I want army compositions to be a rainbow.
Especially in regards to many kinds of super cheap units.
Like bandits and wako and peasants in your army as a staple unit.
>>
>>576470
I really like the idea of more unique units for different clans, besides the usual unit specialties. For example, the Otomo (or any other starting Christian clan) getting some sort of Warrior Monk equivalent units. Perhaps a more fanatical Samurai or Ashigaru unit.

Also for the Hattori/Iga, I considered the idea of having a tier of their own, a Samurai tier equivalent comprised of ninjas and/or “Jizamurai” (landed but lower tier samurai, not ronin as they’re landed and have some form of allegiance, either to their lord or to their communities), with stats along the lines of Kisho Ninja.

Speaking of ninja, the Hyakunin-gumi. Elite tier matchlock unit with kisho training/vanguard deployment and stealth capabilities. Either for the Tokugawa, Hattori, or any clan that becomes Shogun
>>
>>574087
Better vassals (more loyal and more useful)
3K coalitions and alliances
Playable Imagawa (unique Yari samurai and stronger vassals)
A 1560 start date
>>
>>576023
if you remove the secondary weapons from pikemen in med2 you will see why they did it. they were cowards afraid of the pike and shot chads
>>
>>555929
It certainly did get older but at least Oda Nobunaga wasn't rambo killing whole Takeda army alone
>>
Realm divide was good, and it was the only tw game with a good endgame
>>
>>576659
its justified in warhammer tw but in 3 kingdoms, well, not so much
>>
>>555929
Enable new clans:
>Imagawa, Kitabatake, Rokkaku, Ashina, Ryuzoji, Miyoshi and Azai/Hosokawa/Ouchi
Properly rework Ikko-Ikki: anti-samurai rebellion ruled by a samurai (although Shimotsuma Rairen was actually just a regent monk) and calls itself a clan, that's a fucking joke
Rework Uesugi: No, they weren't focusing on warrior monks, it was all about Kenshin's great leadership and well-trained armies
slightly rework Oda: Although Nobunaga truly did his job at making ashigaru a considerable force it wasn't his biggest achievement, shift the focus to conquest so he would have strong terror influence and smaller bonuses to matchlock units. Nobunaga himself actually had a couple of portuguese armor sets
>Realm Divide
I get the idea of this mechanic, but it just fails, especially when there is no way to support the Shogunate
>enable building more than one Nanban Trade Port
>add a Nagamaki unit
And I think that's all.
>>
>>577285
One idea I had for the Oda was one skill focusing on religion. As Oda Nobunaga had notable Christian samurai under his belt and even a Catholic priest as an advisor/confidant, maybe a campaign skill. Perhaps the ability to use both Buddhist & Christian buildings and/or negated religious dissent in Christian provinces?
>>
>>576682
Roman civil war doesn't count? It's not exactly the endgame so much as the start of it, but nevertheless.





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