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Did you do your yearly playthrough of Disciples 2 yet?
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Does it have dorfs?
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>>495293
I KNEEL
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>>495445
An entire clan of them.
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>>495293
Last time I've played it, I was in mid-school, 15 fucking years ago, and they were 3edgy5me
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>>495293
No game has the same atmosphere
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>>495293
How come this game was not more popular? nothing has ever come close to it and the only people that seemed to appreciate were a bunch of slavs, nords and russians
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>>495293
>Did you do your yearly playthrough of Disciples 2 yet?
Nope, I did like 3 full playthroughs of the game - first time in the last grade of my elementary school, then at the end of high school and the last time before I started writing my bachelor's thesis. Guess my next playthrough is going to be before I get married.

>>495746
>nothing has ever come close to it and the only people that seemed to appreciate were a bunch of slavs, nords and russians
Because the game has S O U L and Westerners only care about Bing Bing Wahoo and Rooty tooty point and shooty type of games. Memes aside, the game was made by Canucks, but French are a soulful people in general so it's no surprise it turned out the way it did
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>>495293
>>495445
Does it have elves?
Does it have dark elves?
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>>495985
Both
>>
Has anyone tried D3: Reincarnation?
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>>495674
It really is great. The artwork portraits and character modes are top tier. Feels like a painting of a bleak gothic era fantasy in game form.

Really love the big armor and long cape cloth armor design. So much bulk armor or face masks covering the face in full or partially. Just badass.
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>>495445
Yes
Unfortunately
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>>496334
>Unfortunately
But they are cool in this one.
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>>495746
I think it just had the misfortune to compete with HoMM3 frankly. Its a great game but it really doesn't offer that much more than you can get in heroes and it does have fewer races and such. Threads here are always pretty good though, there's definitely a niche but dedicated following.
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>>495985
Only in the expansion to Disciples 2.
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>>495985
Elves are neutral non player race in first 2 games but second game have expansion what added as playable and give them proper campaign, also they are important for plot of D2
There are no proper Dark Elves in game, Dark Elves here are special kind of undead elves
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>>496368
Which parts of HoMM would be welcome in a Disciples game? The lack of movement in battles stood out to me when I first played it as a kid. But I loved that I only had my chosen faction units and taking towns didn’t mean potentially using non faction units.

I could never get into the HoMM3 ‘feel’ even though it’s easy to see why the game is great. A lot of that is due to the art style.
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>>495746
It's basically the sort of game that most eurojank dreams of being, so I can see why they liked it. Similar to Diablo 2, it hits a good point of grimdarkness without succumbing to numetal/hot topic type overindulgence. Unlike D2 though the type of game it is was never going to have broad appeal, TBS were pretty niche when the game was new and it passed by with most people not knowing it existed in its release window.
>>
>>496811
A crpg set in this world would be my wet dream.
>>
>>496895
Liberation sound like monkey paw of this wish
>>
>>496907
It comes close enough. No idea how the promotional material even relates to Disciples. Looks like it was made to be a low budget mobile BDSM game.
>>
I'm supposed to finish the expansion Legion campaign. I've finished all the others of the second game + expansion, Legion took me the most because they have a rough start and I kept dropping the campaign and starting over. I found that the best combo for them is Mage Lord, Fighter Hero, with one Demon line, one Gargoyle line and one Cultist line.
Then I wanna try playing through it again on the hardest difficulty.
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>>497377
>I found that the best combo for them is Mage Lord, Fighter Hero, with one Demon line, one Gargoyle line and one Cultist line.
Although I do like the unit composition, personally, I like to stick to Warrior Lord & Hero combo when playing Legions. The main issue I think Legion has is that don't have any dedicated healers or healing spells in general. Sure, if there are any Mage Towers that sell healing spells, then using a Mage Lord is much more worthwhile but you'll most likely lack the necessary mana to cast it repeatedly. Not only that, but most spells Legions have are all about damage and debuffs, and being able to cast spells twice doesn't mean much since you can't cast the same debuff spell twice on a same unit, and any high-level party you want to nuke with your damaging spells will likely have a fire elemental ward that will prevent any damage outright. Warrior Lord gives you +15% to daily healing in addition to 5% (I think?) each faction gets by default. Likewise, most of the artifacts you'll get during the saga are all about increasing your Hero's armor, so your Warrior Hero will become a flying, regenerating tank by the end of the saga, which seems suitable for such a faction.
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>when you get weapon resistant unit as Undead and it make most of mission fights trivial
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>>497636
You can literally resolve 99% of combat encounters in the Undead Saga with this party.
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>>497645
I remember when I was playing Dis 1 and tried Wraiths on front strategy until end. One of many mistakes I made in that campaign

Off course with Wraith upgrades and additional levels in D2 this strategy is much better even if facing dwarfs
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>>495445
Yes, but they are the less autistic kind of dwarves like you see in every other fantasy game.
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>>497645
>Bonelord armor guy turns on me
>taunts me and runs off into the fog of war
>never see him again
>we could have been friends
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>>496033
I tried it recently but I just couldn't get into it. I just ended up playing Disciples 2 again.
>>
Why does the Fighter of the Undead look like a shriveled potato?
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>>495293
not really, but thank you for confirming "a yearly playthrough" was not just mine thing -
as a kid I used to replay blood and magic and/or tyrian every december. Disciples 2, I recently bought it on sale but haven't find time to play it. Hope you have a good time op.
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>>496715
Honestly idk. I really appreciate the blend of simple systems with a lot of depth that disciples hit. Adding hexes and so on would probably just muck it up for little gain. Maybe more units and a few more overland map options would be good, but I wouldn't go nuts overhauling.
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>>498188
Undead are raised from the ground. Potatoes are raised from the ground. It just works.
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>>497569
Agreed, demons really don't benefit much from a mage lord. I would go guild lord with them and hero desu. The flight plus the massive movespeed they have makes them very strong and the ability to just delete a backline unit right away is very good. Demons have the ability to abuse the incubus for a lot of easy fights in the campaign in combination with eliminating the one source of cure/heal from the other team. Plus removing an enemy mage makes the lack of healing less of an issue, because you get less incidental damage on the rest of your party. Maybe not guild lord in the campaign, but probably guild hero for sure.
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>>498298
Yeah, Warrior Lord + Guild Hero combo is nice. Realistically, Mage Hero goes best with everything due to the better damage scaling in the Saga or in more expansive scenarios, but IMO role-playing is more fun than min-maxing. Personally, these are my favorite combinations:
Mage Lord + Mage Hero for Empire and Undead (tbf Undead magic is shit, but I always felt that your main hero should be the one you start the scenario with);
Guildmaster + Guild Hero for Clans and Elves (cause these are the only two factions with a unique Thief unit);
Warrior Lord + Warrior Hero for Legions.
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>>498336
Yeah mage heroes outscale everything except nosferatus. But I agree its fun to do other stuff. Plus the guild heroes actually aren't too bad since they can get enough initiative to beat anything else, including mage heroes. Can't do any damage if you're dead, right?

Warrior heroes are unfortunately stuck in this bad spot where most races don't need them, have melee units with some form of utility that just makes them better than a warrior lord, or can just do better with other options. They're fun though. Its a pretty great combo to rock something like a warrior dwarf with the alchemists and dish out like 500 damage a hit to delete things.
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>>496033
I tried the demo of Renaissance. The only four good things it did are the hero skill-trees, the more RPG-ish equipments for heroes, made some of the least useful units useful (like the Elementalists having a choice between summoning and attacking instead of just summoning) and making Thieves function like any other hero.
But the amount of horrible things simply overpower those four things. Its that horrible.
And the newest Disciples that is in production also isn't looking good.
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>>498353
>Yeah mage heroes outscale everything except nosferatus
It's been a long time since I used Nosferatus, but isn't their damage lower in general due to their life steal ability? Also, fun little tidbit: the first time I tried this composition here >>497645, my main hero was Nosferatu, so all of my damage was Death-based. So, then I had to buy a lvl. 1 Lich Queen and drag her all the way to the ruin just so I'd be able to kill all those Undead units.
>Plus the guild heroes actually aren't too bad since they can get enough initiative to beat anything else, including mage heroes
Actually, I encountered an 'issue' where I increased my Engineer's initiative too much so he frequently acted before the Archdruidess could buff him.
>Its a pretty great combo to rock something like a warrior dwarf with the alchemists and dish out like 500 damage a hit to delete things
Yeah, but you can do the same thing with the Loremaster, but now you hit every unit for 300 damage. Again, scaling issue.

>>498358
>And the newest Disciples that is in production also isn't looking good
Excuse me, there's a fourth one in the making?!
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>>498405
>Excuse me, there's a fourth one in the making?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mrI_Q_T8u0
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1287840/Disciples_Liberation/
You be the judge here. It looks like D3, but at least hoping that I am wrong and they will put in more effort into making it at least somewhat fun. Even if the atmosphere is still not D2-tier.
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>>498465
The feature list makes it out to be something closer to an Xcom style game or a mission based crpg. You pick classes and it’s just one campaign with acts.
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>>498471
I just hope it will be actually good, but after D3 I'm extremely skeptical. So, so skeptical.
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>>498465
It looks like random dark fantasy with Disciples titles slapped to it
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After playing the initial four factions and now playing the Elves, they seem weak? Like a version of the Empire but with less health.

The campaign is against mostly Empire enemies. And that means archers and assassins. My Elf healer gets destroyed in the first round all the time.

This campaign is much better on the storyline but is way more annoying with having several fights in succession.
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>>498776
It's been a while but from what I remember the main thing they win on is initiative and range. Might be locked out of a lot of things that capitalize on that early in the campaign though.
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>>498465
I thought you were bullshitting me until I saw Nevendaar being mentioned in the video description. Like, I literally watched that video a during E3 and I thought the 'Disciples' part of the title was just picked due to it sounding cool, because I couldn't even imagine the connection between the TBS and whatever that was.
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>>498776
I am surprised how weak their magic is, yet in the earlier campaigns elven magic is jerked off, left and right.
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>>495293
No, I'm starting my first ever Disciples 2 game.
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>>498405
Technically you can powerlevel heroes to something like 99 with the xpack. It won't happen quickly but you can get a nossie to the damage cap same as a mage hero. Ofc with a nossie you need a fuckload of levels and the sagas won't be enough so you're really in for the long haul.

I've had that same initiative issue, its pretty funny I admit but it does feel bad. iirc the mage heroes can't go over the 300 cap the way melees can. The other main reason you would use a guild hero is because the way debuff items work they are a lot more accurate on single target heroes and much less on mages. If you are really really interested in locking something down with like the paralyze item a guild hero will do that when a mage hero you're rolling the dice. Ofc the mage hero can lock down a lot of different units, so its a bit of a wash.
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>>498776
Their magic combines debuffs and buffs, so its kinda a bit of both worlds. They aren't the buffers that humans or even dwarves are but they're also not as limited. I often think of them as a tradeoff between flexibility and raw power.

Their units tend to have high initiative and hit evolutions really early letting them spike very quickly. They have great archers early on with elemental damage and dots and the investment into the marauder is worth it due to the insane initiative and double attack (pair that with some might potions and watch him delete a dragon/demon/giant before the other team even moves or knock out the enemy mage and healer in one round). The lancer gives armor on a second evolution melee unit, which is insane. The elementalist brings shatter. The grovewarden provides all wards while the slyph and firedancer are great against humans/demons respectively and can completely negate the existence of the enemy mage hero/lightning giant/mage unit just by existing. The only thing you don't have is a lockdown unit, so you're never going to cheese free wins but at the same time you win fair fights with ease.

They have a heal spell, and the cheapest movement buff in the game so you can creep extremely fast. Gallean's boon is arguably the strongest defensive spell in the game, despite the high cost. Their level 5 spells are also very strong in certain situations. For example if you want to ruin someone's day the turn after they pop one of your rods, plant a forest around them so they have no space to plant one of their own. You lock up the area forever unless they can edge in from further out. Often when they do you can just ignore their rod until its close and then sinkhole it, which is rage inducing when it happens and they often won't have a rod planter in the area to fix the problem.
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>>499363
Thank you. I’m just having trouble seeing those benefits as that great at the moment. Not only is my healer being killed routinely in the first round but by the time the healer moves, it’s late in round 1. That means the ward didn’t do much 95% of the time as the back row wizards of the enemy are likely dead before they move a second time.

Front row armored centaur is nice. The internet loves all around seem to hit hard and fast but they are so frail that the weaknesses outweigh the good. I’m having to revive units way more than I did in the other four faction campaigns.

The spells are disappointing to me. The one that adds 50 health is great and obviously the mini hast spell is fantastic. But the rest are underwhelming. Damage spells and debuffs mostly.

I think I’m mostly just pissy about the Saga enemy design itself though. It’s as if they went out of their way to emphasize Elven weaknesses. Having multiple ranged archers or assassins in half the battles means my healer dies constantly which even one unit death is annoying in this game. They hand out healing items like candy but that should have been a warning sign as to unfavorable encounter design to the devs?

Love the faction aesthetics though. Just ranting about their Saga.
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>>499417
The ‘internet loves’ = elves

Wtf autocorrect
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>>499346
>iirc the mage heroes can't go over the 300 cap the way melees can
You're correct, but melee heroes can only go up to 400 max, so the difference is not that significant.
>The other main reason you would use a guild hero is because the way debuff items work they are a lot more accurate on single target heroes
Oh, for sure! My favorite Guild hero playthrough was with the Elves, because he got the Horn of Incubus (petrify attack) and the Claw of Bethrezen (+50% damage and +40% initiative) in the last mission in the Saga. I plopped him right in the front and center because he looked too much of a chad to stand in the back row and instead added another archer unit in the back.

>>499363
>The lancer gives armor on a second evolution melee unit, which is insane
But the unit scales terribly. I once tried using Lancers to test out if their armor increase after each level-up, and unfortunately that's not the case. In every longer game, using Lancers is basically handicapping your damage output.
>For example if you want to ruin someone's day the turn after they pop one of your rods, plant a forest around them so they have no space to plant one of their own
I never needed to do it but now but now that I think of it, that's actually OP as fuck.
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>>498776
>This campaign is much better on the storyline but is way more annoying with having several fights in succession.
Campaign have better story but also better structure. Shame it never lead to more stuff like this since series died after that
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>>499781
>Campaign have better story
Holyshit nope.
>>
anyone know any good custom campaigns?

>>495985
>>496010
>>496450
>>496484
whats the deal with elf models and art? it seems way below in quality compared compared to other 4 races. probably different artist.
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>>500483
Most likely, tho the concept art for them seems consistent with the ones made for the original factions.
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>>502311
I had to use the Liege because he's so damn regal looking. The models look great but the portraits are definitely a bit sub par compared to the rest for the elves. Still good and they characterize them well nevertheless.
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>>500483
>anyone know any good custom campaigns?
I wish I knew.
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>>496715
I don't think it really needs more on the tactical layer, but the strategic layer is a bit more simplified and this is sort of a consequence of the core game-flow. HoMM is based around numerical stacks that are easier to subdivide or collect, but Disciples is all about using experienced units in small parties. There's only so much experience available on a map, which means losing the main party is always pretty crushing. It accentuates the deterministic nature of most combats as well.
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>>504322
>I don't think it really needs more on the tactical layer
Tbh the game really need more on the tactical side too. There is so much things that broken by game design and "abuse" of game mechanics just feels like it was intended by devs as one and only right way to play.
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>>499417
Elves have this weird spot where the healers are op, but incredibly fragile without some levels in them. You have to be really careful to either keep them alive, or just accept that they are sacrificial bait so you can nuke the enemy team. I would bring an archer every time though, because their high initiative lets them often win the who moves first thing and you can nuke out the enemy archer before it kills the healer.

Elves hate to get hit back yeah, iirc from their saga you have to either avoid a healer or just accept its going to die a lot early on. Before you can get to the marauder line you're stuck with the warden line and while they're great, they don't exactly pop off in the first turn. I recall having lots of the same frustrations, its just how the saga worked out. I think its because they were the xpack race and so they made them a little harder than others.
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>>504499
>marauder
Kinda curious at this point since a lot of people lvl all way to marauder. Why? You get madlad brigand, you build full 6 archer stack and cosplay savage retard going PEW-PEW. Also while wardens kinda okay, sentry bolster better DoT which is useful for taking towns. Saga is designed around fucking your shit up. A lot of range enemies which is basically have you back line occupied 24/7. Some even LVL up high enough which is huge difference between your normal filler fights. Imperial assassins can outspeed your entire party in terms of initiative and have poison in case your healer/mage is still alive. AI often target support units above all else so not much help there. Still not as bad as legions or undead without lich queen.
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>>498482
Welcome to just about any given modern sequel or reboot done in past decade or so. And it's not even that the people the game is aiming at care or know there is such series as Disciples. It's the fact it's an "established name" and on top of that, high number, so obviously worth buying and playing, along with never, ever checking previous entries.
I fucking hate what this industry had become ever since demos stopped being a standard.
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>>499437
The claw is sooooo good with a debuff item.

Also, the lancer doesn't scale that bad. The thing about scaling is that locked units tend to perform better once you hit the level cap than evolutions, but evos are really great right away. Some guy did a comparison of a locked squire vs a paladin and other than the armor if you get past a certain amount of xp the squire actually has more hp and damage, for example. But locked units tend to gain xp unevenly, since they lose some in situations where they gain enough to level up, which happens more often.

The lancer is nice because it gets the scaling benefit that a locked unit does with repeated levelups but doesn't suffer (as much) from the weaker early game. The cost is that it scales slower than a locked tier 1 melee would, meaning it will be weaker for longer. So while its worse than the savage right away, given time it becomes the better choice because it will pack more level ups than a savage will once they both hit max evolves. Lancer won't match the savage's damage, but it will give you a really tanky frontline with lots of health and armor. I usually get damage from my backline with a marauder/mage hero so I don't feel the lack of damage as much.

The savage's critical strike is nothing to sleep on though. Its very good against demons with gargoyles for example and lets them exceed the damage cap. Personally, I think they're both good options when you get right down to it. The lancer has some advantages in that its very cheap and the early armor allows them to tank creeps effectively super quick. Combined with a healer, elves can clear neutrals extremely fast.

The forest growth spells are really strong desu. Planting one on an enemy hero without flight can essentially be a version of the demon spell that removes all movement. The forests themselves can also fuck up the AI since they have no idea what to do with them.
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>>500483
Gog has a pinned thread full of new scenarios https://www.gog.com/forum/disciples_series/additional_scenarios

I've had good success with finding decent stuff in there, although not all of it is english. The steam forums are also a decent spot, a fair number of things have been posted there that I've found throughout the years.
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>>504517
I usually go sentry line for the dot and elemental damage, but the marauder is a very strong top end unit. Plus the double attacks make for a great way to avoid the damage cap. I think the animation is just better than the brigand imo. AI loves to fuck support units. I think their targeting default goes support > mage/hero > archer > melee fighter > 2 size unit.
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>>504543
>So while its worse than the savage right away, given time it becomes the better choice because it will pack more level ups than a savage will once they both hit max evolves. Lancer won't match the savage's damage, but it will give you a really tanky frontline with lots of health and armor
I'll have to test this. Gimme an hour or so.
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How does it work on Windows 7? Are wrappers or anything needed? Think I might give it another go.
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>>505659
Like fine wine, provided you use GOG version. Not the steam one.
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>>505505
Okay, here are the basic stats:
Lancer - Level 1; XP needed to level up: 145; Hitpoints: 150; Attack: 30; Initiative: 40; Hit Chance: 80%; Armor: 0
Charger - LVL: 2; XP to level up: 525; HP: 175; ATK: 50; INI: 40; HIT: 80%; ARM: 20 (or a 20% multiplier on max HP, unless Shattered)
Strider - LVL: 2; XP to level up: 730; HP: 175; ATK: 65; INI: 40; HIT: 80%; ARM: 0
Savage - LVL: 3; XP to level up: 1300; HP: 210; ATK: 100; INI: 35; HIT: 80%; ARM: 0

I will calculate the effects of scaling based on a fixed amount of XP, it is important to take into account the XP needed to for a unit to reach a certain upgrade tier, i.e:
XP needed to level up from Lancer to Charger or Strider = 145
XP needed to level up from Lancer to Savage = 875

Lancer obviously requires the least amount of XP to reach level 99, which is:
145*99=14355
But that amount of XP is pretty low, so let's double it for fun and make it to be the max amount of XP to given to those two units. Now let's divide the max XP by a divisor (I picked five cause I'm lazy) to get the number of samples and increment the quotient to check how the stats for Charger, Strider and Savage compare.

At 5742/11484/17226/22968/28710 XP, the stats for:

Locked Charger are:
LVL: 11/22/33/44/55
HP: 328/427/526/625/724
ATK: 109/142/175/208/241
INI: 40/40/40/40/40
HIT: 88%/88%/88%/88%/88%
ARM: 20/20/20/20/20 (which effectively increases the HP to 393/512/631/750/868 if not Shattered)

and for Savage are:
LVL: 5/10/14/18/23
HP: 252/357/397/437/487
ATK: 124/186/204/224/249 (or 139/201/219/239/264 with Critical hit ability)
INI: 35/35/35/35/35
HIT: 82%/87%/87%/87%/87%
ARM: 0

Unfortunately, for some reason I was unable to change the level of Lancers and Striders (or any other non-neutral unit that can be upgraded) in the Map Editor, so I couldn't really see how their values change.

So, it turns out that >>504543 was absolutely right, and that choosing to stick with a Charger over a Savage is going to be beneficial in the long run.
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>>505721
Also worth mentioning that you get the extra 5 initiative. I think most melee units are at 40 by default so staying at 40 means you're at least in the rng pool to go before other frontliners. Like I mentioned, the savage isn't a bad unit by any means and the math you did shows how it has higher attack the whole way through, although it narrows. I don't know that the extra hit chance is going to be game changing that early but its nice to get access to it faster with the lancer too I guess.

This is a really nice analysis btw, thank you anon.
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>>505751
>This is a really nice analysis btw, thank you anon.
No problem. As I've mentioned, I also wanted to test out if there are any benefits to locking Lancers and Striders but the Map editor simply wouldn't allow me to set their level for some reason. And yes, the initiative plays a big part, especially when combined with their lower HP and the lack of armor. When playing a shorter game, the difference between from lvl.3-4 Charger and lvl.3 Savage are significant enough to warrant an upgrade, but the longer the game is, the stat gap between the two gets narrower and narrower until, at one point, the former becomes the objectively superior unit.
>>
Is the base hit rate actually 80%? Maybe I was traumatized by x-com but it seems like the hit chance is more weighted in your favor like how Fire Emblem apparently does it.
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>>506509
For most units.
>hit chance is more weighted in your favor
I kinda remember playing D3 after all the shit it went through and fighting imps where everyone had 45% hit. So couple of imps could take fucking forever. D2 more balanced so sometimes it's really clutch shit or sometimes you miss three times in a row and commit ritual sudoku.
>>
>>506509
Try Wesnoth and it will get you REALLY traumatized, unit with 5 attacks, 80% hit chance, hit once. Through whole campaign.
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Started playing today, my go to strategy is Ranger hero + 2 archers in the back, and a squire in the front blocking every turn. How badly will I get filtered doing this?
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>>510799
>How badly will I get filtered doing this?
It really depends on whether you're playing a Saga or a single scenario. If it's the former, then I'd say you made a pretty decent choice, provided you acquire one pretty crucial artifact in one of the later missions. I'd focus on getting leadership ASAP and filling your front rank with one more unit from the Squire upgrade tree. In any case, I wouldn't stress too much about this if this is your first playthrough: just enjoy the game - the story, the atmosphere, the design - and min-maxing and optimization can come later.
And for the love of God, use a Lich Queen as your main hero for the Undead Saga, you'll thank me for it later.
>>
>>510799
So far okay, but later in the game you probably want some healers. Empire is only faction where it's hard to fuck up. Besides first and last mission tho.
>>
>>510799
Defending is really op. It just flat reduces damage by half, which can make hits very manageable when paired with either a healer or just any kind of armor. The triple archer thing should work fine, the nice thing about humans is that they're very forgiving and the archers evolve fast making them powerspike harder earlier than a lot of other options. If you struggle a lot I might consider swaping an archer for a healer to keep your squire going but otherwise that's a decent enough party.
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>>510841
>>510961
>>511792
Thanks for the tips, happy with how the party turned out so far.
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>>512550
>Thanks for the tips
No problem anon, I'm glad you're enjoying the game. I guess you found the Soul Scepter or however it's called. I also think you've now realized what's the main issue when using a Ranger - you can either lose the elemental damage Wizards provide, the poison DoT of the Assassin that ignores armor, the healing or one of the frontline fighters. IMO, the optimal party composition for a Saga Ranger is him in the back row (equipped with the paralyzing artifact) with one White Wizard, one healer (I personally prefer Prophetesses over Hierophants) and three frontliners of your choice (it seems you haven't gained access to the final tier so I won't spoil them for you). Sure, you lose the poison DoT but since you can perma-paralyze most tougher units - and most importantly, the Capitol Guardian - at the very start of the encounter, you can still auto-resolve the encounter and get tons of XP.
>>
>>512593
>it seems you haven't gained access to the final tier so I won't spoil them for you
I saw the upgrades for them already, but I picked Angel on a whim to see how they compare to paladins.
Probably will go Avenger + Paladin for the last mission.
>>
>>512606
>Probably will go Avenger + Paladin for the last mission
You mean you'll lock one unit out from being upgraded? Not sure why you would do that from a gameplay standpoint but Paladins are /fa/ as fuck so why not.
>>
>>512622
Avenger loses the armor so Paladin would stay more tanky, and I noticed the witch-hunter catches up pretty quickly to lancers/paladins in terms of stats.
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>>512633
>Avenger loses the armor so Paladin would stay more tanky
Yeah, but you can always boost a unit's armor through potions and spells, same with damage. What you can't do is give a unit two attacks in one turn - that's unique to the Avenger (at least, in Empire's roster). That's why it's so valuable to leave the front row to them - three fully roided-up Avengers can deal 1800 damage total (3 Avengers x 2 attacks per Avenger x 300 max damage).
>>
>>512550
I would always advise going with the aoe healers over the single targets. Plus while the hierophant brings resurrections the ability is less useful than you think, its better to just avoid letting people die in the first place. The priestess also packs cure, which will remove any and all debuffs on a character. While that isn't wildly OP, it does mean that every enemy will have to tunnel vision your healer or lose outright and a double healer party for humans is borderline immortal.

>>512593
This is good advice.

>>512606
Technically I think the paladin is considered better by a lot of people because you only lose out on a little dps early and you gain the big armor bonus and iirc a big initiative advantage. Avengers are actually surprisingly fragile, which can make them backfire badly at times. Units at that tier will not really gain multiple levels, so the dps difference won't grow much either. That said, double attacks means you can exceed the damage cap like >>512657 mentions. Plus its one thing you can't potion/spell onto a unit and that makes it very valuable. The inquisitor line is nothing to scoff that though, they're absolutely bonkers against demons/undead and they end up keeping the stats close enough to the other line. Angels are unfortunately just kinda the worst of all worlds. They aren't low tier enough to pack levels nor do they bring any special utility like wards/armor/double attacks. They're basically just a stronger melee unit, but they do look cool as fuck.
>>
>>512764
>paladin is considered better by a lot of people
I think most people just prefer call defender of faith a paladin, which is not far from what he suppose to be. But yeah, armor is really good stat if you planning to ignore the big boy buffs. Everything about defender is fantastic if you want to go full min-max. Sadly avenger need to pull both attacks from max damage, but honestly even if one attack connects. It's better compare to full miss. Inquisitor line is amazing, because you get free ward + immune to psyche attacks. Which means you ignore 100% of paralyze effect in this game. And they level really fast compare to both defender/avenger. Since angels is strong at front line, hit way harder compare to paladin and generally pretty cool dude. Also less XP to level. It's amazing how nothing about him is special tho. Most people also ignore titans. This ladies punch hard with solid initiative and don't need huge amount of XP. The only time Empire is really mediocre it's mage line I think. Elementalist fucking suck and white mage is not exactly end game tier too.
>>
Let's keep threads for this series alive, it seriously deserves attention

>>505659
GOG version runs okay but I still suggest using this wrapper:

https://verokster.blogspot.com/2019/03/disciples-i-ii-gl-wrapper-patch.html

Works for both D1 and D2, makes any resolution a breeze, allows for higher framerates (game becomes so smooth you will never want to go back), adjustable animation speed, locale support if you need it, this thing is great
>>
>>513016
Oh damn whoops, yeah sorry I meant defender not paladin. Thank you for catching that. Titains are okay I'd say. They don't have the evolution like skylords and they don't pack aoe like yetis or dot like beast or immunity like werewolves. But that said, they do have good hp and hit damn hard. They're a surprisingly good base defender and I wouldn't feel bad about using them. The mage line does suck sorta, I think mages are the easiest units to replace though and the easiest to just lock and ignore since none of them bring utility unless you lose the damage.
>>
>>512606
>>512764
Angels are the "budget" upgrade and a more for one-off scenarios or gold-poor maps. Better stats, less XP, and you don't have to pay for another tier of building upgrades.
>>
>tfw no greenskin faction
>>
>>513555
orcs were supposed to get next expansion, before strategy first hit the shitter
there are several mod projects that replace/add units to existing factions, and modders themselves claim that technically adding a new race in a mod is possible, it will just take a lot of work and effort to provide all the brand new art/sound for it

maybe commies will save us by making an orc mod, stay strong greenbro
>>
>>513555
>>513679
I hear about Greenskin mod like 10 years ago and still no mod
>>
>>513679
>maybe commies will save us by making an orc mod
From what I read "The revenge of greenskins" (Idk if this is official mod name or I just pull this one out of my ass) project is pretty much in permafrost since 2010. They still have bunch of shit lying around and could bring it back, but ATM nothing besides that.
>>
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This party didn't do so hot again the final boss.
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>>515554
>Hierophant
Fucking why?
As Empire you are supposed to use two Prophetesses to fully restore everyones HP every turn.
>>
>>515554
>final boss
If that's the human saga I have bad news for you bud.
>>
>>515554
bro do you even paralyze?
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>>521556
Yea and boss was immune to it.
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>>515737
>As Empire you are supposed to use two Prophetesses to fully restore everyones HP every turn
There's no conceivable reason for a single party to have two healers.

>>521578
>Yea and boss was immune to it.
I'm pretty sure every final Saga boss has Mind immunity, so that's to be expected. What's important is that Guardians don't, which means you can use them as walking, talking XP dispensers.
>>
I've read in an old guide that, in Disciples 1, the Legions warrior leader gains extra movement per level up. Do the mage and the ranger not receive the same extra action points?
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>>523428
Everyone gains additional moves with every levelup in 2.
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>>523301
Two healers is nice because it can totally invalidate the enemy party if they lack the burst. Its kinda like running a paralyze unit or an incubus, but honestly probably a little worse.
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>>495293
Don't mind me, just here to ruin your entire day.
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>>496715
Have you played Disciples 3? Because they learned all the WRONG lessons from Heroes. Well, not really they because it was developed by an altogether different developer. Combat movement was definitely not one of those thing I wanted in Disciples.
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>>523810
You know what else can totally invalidate the enemy party even if they have burst damage? Armor. And Empire has armor spells.
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>>510961
Speaking of Empire, did anyone ever bother with the Witch Hunter -> Inquisitor -> Grand Inquisitor line? Mind immunity just doesn't seem worth it.
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>>523846
>Mind immunity just doesn't seem worth it.
Dude, it's absolutely worth it. If your melee tech tree is capped at tier 4, which is where Paladin, Angel and Grand Inquisitor are, choosing to go with the inquisitor line is a no-brainer.
Mind immunity is essentially one big middle finger to Ghosts, Phantom Warriors, Abyssal Devil and even to a few unique Saga units and bosses, such as Bethrezen. Aside from that, Grand Inquisitors also have the inbuilt Fire ward ability, so not only can they ignore any paralyzing effects, but they can also shrug off one fire-based attack, and craziest of it all, can completely ignore an infinite number of fire or mind-based damaging spells cast on the adventure map. Grand Inquisitors also tend to level up quite fast due to their low XP requirement, so you can end up with some chonky health pool and damage. I'm sure some of anons here would say that they're even better than tier 5 units, but IMO, they simply can't compete with the insane damage dished out by roided-up Avengers.
>>
>>512550
>>515554
>ranger hero
aww yeah
>>
>>523919
I use them against my boy, Uther.
>>
What game should I start with if I want to play the campaigns in release order? The expansion titles don't really give any clues.
>>
>>496907
>Liberation
aww fuck, I forgot about that
>>
>>524446
>What game should I start with if I want to play the campaigns in release order?
When you install GOG's Gold Edition, you'll end up with two versions of the game: the first one is Dark Prophecy & Gallean's Return and the second one is Rise of the Elves
When starting a saga in the first version of the game, the game will prompt you whether you want to play the vanilla Dark Prophecy saga or one of the two expansion sagas: Guardians of The Light (for Empire and Clans) or Servants of The Dark (Undead and Legions). First play the vanilla sagas, in any order you like. I'd recommend starting with Empire though, since they're the faction you're first introduced in the tutorial and are pretty noob-friendly because of their healing magic. After finishing a Saga, you will be offered to export a hero with all his artifacts, orbs, tomes and such. Do it because you can't play the expansion sagas unless you import at least a level 10 hero. Then play through the expansion sagas in any order you like, and close the game. Finally, start up Rise of the Elves, and play their Saga to finish everything off. You can technically play the vanilla sagas Rise of the Elves, but you won't be able to export your heroes from one version of the game to the other.
>>
I have to disable my 2 side screens to play it because it absolutely refuses to open on my main, middle display.
A very small price to pay, considering.
How should I play my next demon playthrough lads, fighter lord + fighter hero?
>>
>>523846
The witch hunter line is better in many cases. I would always go for them against undead/demons as they pretty much invalidate several of their units outright. The fire ward can be useful against a dwarf trying to spam hit 6 units and rocking flamecasters too. Against elves the fire ward is good for some of their spells on the map, notably singe, but I wouldn't really feel compelled to use them. The defenders initiative bonus is actually really good against elves in particular too.

>>523919
Much like this >>505721 post here demonstrates, lower tier units tend to outscale higher tier ones with more xp. The inquisitor line iirc requires a couple of evolutions to get all the wards/immunities but over time will be very strong and comes online much quicker than the knight line. The tier 5 knights are still very good, defender has massive initiative, armor, and good damage while the avenger has double attacks and good hp, but their utility comes along very late and after a lot of xp while the hunter line comes online fast and keeps packing in levels while the knights are still grinding.
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>>523836
It could be nice for a secondary party, if you just want something that can cheese fights without too much investment I could see doing it but yeah, humans generally have better options.
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>>523806
Yeah, but I'm playing through 1 first. I know it's not necessary (the story is retold in 2) but I want to go through it chronologically.
As far as I can understand from this thread, the best combo for a Saga (campaign) is Warrior Lord plus a mage hero, right?
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>>524842
try the wrapper (in here >>513147), I used to have issues with the game opening on the wrong monitor and now it's running well

as for the hero, in standalone scenarios/PVP you almost always want to go warrior lord with ranger hero + gargoyle + flex slot; while in campaign I'd usually go warrior lord with mage hero
Ranger class is completely busted in this game btw, the tempo advantage you get from increased movespeed and movespeed gain per lvl (resulting in getting 1 or 2 extra fights per turn) is insane, and you don't get any special talents on other classes that could compete with it (you can just keep a separate hero for staves/scrolls).
>>
>>526040
I don't recall in 1 desu, its been a very long time. For 2 yeah warrior lord mage hero is probably ideal, but you can generally clear it with anything. I imagine the same thing would be ideal in the first too.
>>
>>527591
>>513147
Thanks, I'll try the wrapper. If it steals my crypto I'm going to spam this board with black penis threads for the next 5 years.
And yeah, rangers heroes are the most powerful but MAN does the demon ranger look like shit.
>>
>>528343
One of the few areas where 3 was a clear improvement, shame about the rest of the designs.
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>>528396
>3 was a clear improvement
Well also they genderswap generic Empire warrior lord. Also Legions mages models were pretty okay for my taste mainly Modeus and Doppelganger. Fuck everything else about this game tho.
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>>527591
Movement is not tat busted like in Heroes, though, since you can't do more than 2 battles.
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>>495293
I started Empire campaign 2 days ago. Last time I played a couple of years ago I remember finishing Empire and being in the middle of Legions campaign, then I got distracted by some other stuff and forgotten about it.
I'm back to finish all the campaigns. I didn't remember scenarios being that long though, thank god there's a level cap for heros in each scenario, otherwise I would probably autistically try to clear every single encounter with my main hero. But even with several heroes the maps can take a while to finish.
I absolutely adore the aesthetics and atmosphere or this game, it's rare for games to have dark fantasy setting, but the ones that do are usually unique and memorable (Disciples 2, Gothic, Dark Messiah, Demon's Souls, Knights in the Nightmare).
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>>531616
Yep, it’s the atmosphere and tone that keeps me playing it. The games that capture this are lightning in a bottle.

The armor design with bulky plate, face coverings, and long silk cloth capes/robes is also badass.
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>>532243
For sure. Also I was pleasantly surprised discovering the artworks in GOG goodies, I believe Strategy Fist wanted to use drawn portraits for Disciples 2 like in the first Disciples game, but in the end decided to use prerendered ones. They all look great.
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>>532243
>face coverings, and long silk cloth capes/robes
I think this aspect of D2's unit design is rather underrated. I really can't think of any other TBS which felt so comfortable giving their units colorful and opulent armor and garments without making it look cheesy and WoW-like.
Just look at this pic >>515554: you've got a Paladin in crimson red armor and gilded trim cape, as well as a matching caparison on his horse, Avenger in the emerald green, White Wizard in gray and white, with extravagant looking black armor (?), the Hierophant with flowing robe that white on the outside and red on the inside, and the dark purple assassin with fucking whatchamacallit white fabric sticking out of his doublet. The only 'boring'-looking unit there is the Ranger, and that's simply cause he's wearing something more earthy in color and practical in purpose.
>>
What's a good mod for this game?
>>
>>531616
cute
>>
>>498405
vampire lord + the blade that poison can solo capital cities
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>>539556
>vampire lord + the blade that poison can solo capital cities
Sure, but you still rely on shitton of armor potions to soak up the damage. You could've just as well used the Lich Queen with the Life Draining dagger and achieve the same goal.
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>>539594
>lich queen + life draining dagger + posion blade(?)
are you sure this can solo capitals?
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>>541394
>are you sure this can solo capitals?
It should work theoretically. The Guardian can can only dish out like 25 damage (aka 10% of 250 if you have 90 armor), and I believe the Dagger can heal for approximately the same amount. Just take an additional Healing potion if things get dicey and that should be it. The biggest issue is actually getting enough Armor potions to do that 2 or 3 times over. But since you can easily reach the level cap in the Saga without conquering a single capital, so why bother doing it in the first place?
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>>541488
>so why bother doing it in the first place?
Faster way to level. But to be honest. If party can take capitals, you probably don't need that much XP or enemy spells. But now I think about it. Manlets is only faction in game that take forever to lvl leaders.
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>>541623
Tbh usually a guardian can level your hero and the entire party until like a level 40plus hero in my experience. I wouldn't really be that worried about it to be willing to grind like that, they dish out like 10k xp.
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>>524669
>that battle system
>coming out on consoles
It's gonna be a shitty fire emblem clone, isn't it.
Hearing that a guy from Ubisoft is the creative director I had a moment of hope since many of Strategy First developers got swallowed by Ubisoft after bankruptcy, but turns out he is just some random guy, he has nothing to do with Strategy First or Disciples.
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>>543485
>It's gonna be a shitty fire emblem clone
Honestly. I would take it. But everything about this game. Well, NOT LOOKING GOOD.
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>>538247
Norvezkaya Semga Mod / Moд Hopвeжcкoй cёмги is a decent one I've played, it's a pretty substantial one containing massive unit tree reworks/additions, spell reworks, item reworks, some mechanic changes, QoL, new music, extra hard mode etc, it's like playing Disciples 2.5
Would recommend if you can tolerate some broken English in the translation (originally mod is in Russian)

There are a couple more Slav mods I know, but haven't tried, tread there at your own risk:
>Motlin's Mod
A rebalance mod made for better competetive online play, mostly tweaks numbers, moves around some immunities/wards etc, nothing too crazy. I'm not sure if there is an english version.

>Dwarf's Kingdom
A rework mod containing a huge number of new/changed unit trees, but only for dorfs. Only in Russian for now

>Dzieje Nevendaar
A huge rework mod similar to Semga's mod (lots of unit reworks, new units etc). Only in Polish for now.
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>>543945
Nice, I will check some of them out after beating the campaigns if I won't get tired of Disciples.
>pic related
kek, based Russians.
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>>543945
Thank you based anon.
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>>545171
>You have a version from Steam. Download the pirate version.
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>>543945
>the salmon mod actually lets you uncap damage and make critical hit not shit
i could but up with shitty translation just for that
>>
how did you actually play this correctly? it seemed very snowbally. i like how the units were upgradable.
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>>498358
>And the newest Disciples that is in production also isn't looking good.

why would they even?

FUCC THIS GAY ASS EARTH!
>>
Having checked the steam page, yeah it looks like they're aping HoMM. Again.

Because Disciples didn't need its own identity or anything.

fuck, this. shit.
>>
>>546708
Assuming it's D2 question. Honestly there is no clear answer because at some point you hero will become death, destroyer of both worlds. You can "challenge" yourself by using less optimal things. Like main hero is roadplanter, shit upgrades, not picking lich queen for undead saga.
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>>547659
i didnt play the campaign but it seemed like if you were able to level up your units by a few tiers then itd be hard for your opponent to fight you with literally tier 1 fighters

then again thats probably always been a thing with these. even in heroes if you lose a good stack of units youre practically going to be behind all game
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>>547662
>i didnt play the campaign
You should. It's pretty good. Main challenge comes from neutrals. AI in this game is kinda dork. It's somewhat snowbally in terms of good party composition, but you need to reach that one. And AI get XP passively anyway. So
>your opponent to fight you with literally tier 1 fighters
Mostly lower difficulty thing.
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>>547681
> And AI get XP passively anyway.
haha holy shit thats not fair
but okay. i played 1 and a bit of 2 and i just like the vanilla terrans.
>>
>>546708
>>547662
It is snowbally like most of similar strategy games are (HoMM3 can be like you mentioned, total wars are absolutely snowbally).
I play the campaigns trying to use saves as little as possible. I scout the map with thiefs and summons, always scout ruins and heroes armies before attacking to make sure I can beat them.
If someday there would come a new actual Disciples game, I would like to see being able to recruit higher level units, taking multiple building branches for multiple builds/counterbuilds, doing something with Leadership so Lv.1 leaders have a chance at fighting leveled leaders, changing magic system to somehow make it less one sided.
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>>543485
>It's gonna be a shitty fire emblem clone, isn't it.
More like a shitty HoMM clone I think.
>>
>>546887
>>547702
Lads, they clearly pick king's bounty rout with some random ass faggot being chosen one and can recruit units from existing factions. I think about 3 being confirmed atm.
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>>497645
Nosferatu hero + 5 Elder Vampires
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>>547767
>Nosferatu hero + 5 Elder Vampires
Party's initiative is kinda low but 5 x 60 damage that can heal up to 6 units as well as Nosferatu that heals himself doesn't sound too bad. Has anyone tried playing with this party composition?
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>>547790
The only problem I can think of is their sole damage source, death.
They can't beat enemies have units who are immune to death.
Some undead units (and heroes) are immune to death and deal non-death damage so they are dangerous to this party.
>>
>>547790
>>547803
Another problem is their low damage output because their AoE attack.
If the enemies has high damage and HP, they can focus fire on each vampires and eventually they won't regain much HP before being slaughtered.
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>>547803
>They can't beat enemies have units who are immune to death.
Good point. This party is completely countered by other Undead units, so using this composition in the Saga would be a no go.

>>547805
>they can focus fire on each vampires
Yes, but 300+ AoE damage (provided everyone gets hit) on the very first turn is nothing to scoff at. Even if you lose a single Elder Vampire each turn, your party would still deal 900 (300+240+180+120+60) damage, over the span of 5 turns, excluding the Nosferatu. Any Empire healers would be long gone by then.
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>>547767
Replace 3 elders with phantom warriors and you have very scary party. Spooky even. Who can sustain itself on damage alone. The devs really had huge boner for undead.
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>>547816
>completely countered by other Undead units
I remember the Undead campaign in original saga has 1 mission where you start near a lair of a black dragon (death damage source).
You can kill it with your warrior/mage hero (both are immune to death and have non-death damage source) alone.
Your single hero could get a level up in the very first turn for killing a black dragon.
>>547825
That sounds good.
You can replace 2 vampires if you put the Nosferat in the frond (assume he has drunk all the stat boost potions and wears a good armor).
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>>547825
This. I'm not sure why you wouldn't just run this comp instead, although I can see going templar route for the wards.

>>547805
The core problem with elder vamps is that they have lower damage, and with an all elder party you would get stackwiped very easily by something like a son of ymir that is hard to aoe kill and can knock off a vamp every turn with ease. You need a way to lock up the enemy single target units.

>>547803
Also worth mentioning you'd fold like a wet paper bag the moment someone hits you with a spell before a battle. If they take off even 50 hp your heal every turn team is going to miss out on some necessary opportunities to get that healing done. Its not a bad army setup, but it will have some notable flaws to it.
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>>548031
Good thing the AI is too stupid to spam spells.
AI only spams spells if it thinks it can defeat your party after your party's been weaken by spells.
If you've killed the AI's killer stack, they won't spam spells unto your killer stack.
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>>547848
>you put the Nosferat in the front
Not bad idea. But you missing on that sweet phantom animations. But whatever you fancy more. Speaking about undead vs undead in saga. It's mostly relevant for Bonelord chapter. Because everywhere else weapon or death work just fine. Werewolves not immune to death damage and the rest can be put down by the blade. So it's all about how strong your autism. Lich queen is mandatory if you want to bruteforce while keeping you sanity. And sanity is for the weak anyway.
>>548031
>templar route for the wards
Mostly usefull aganist clans. Dark lords is solid path to take because it's rather cheap and with only 600 XP to level. You can focus on mage line which is rather expensive for archlich/elder or for whatever reason you decide to go for undead dragon line.
>>
>>498405
>>498465
And I thought Disciples series was dead.
I haven't played D3 because it has poor review.
Hope the new Disciples will be better.
>>
>>548176
It's more weird RPG spin off. Which probably would make Disciples 3 look like underrated gem. If you ask me. I think devs also skipped original and it's basically made by noname studio. So it's all no hope train at this point. More like Kalipso just flex their ability to sodomize the corpse.
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>>548239
>RPG
Not Strategy RPG?
>>
my wife
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>>548080
Well yeah, but honestly you can beat the AI doing pretty much anything. Its unfortunately not that good. To be fair though, if they hit you with one or two spells and then send in their killer stack they might beat the all lich party by virtue of bursting you down easily.

>>548094
Does anyone use the undead drags? They seem universally mediocre compared to other options. The 6 poison one seems okay, but then I remember I could just have a Death and paralyzer or a phantom warrior and I don't want it anymore. I find the wards on the templar decent. The payoff is much quicker than the phantom warrior to be certain and it offers some real advantages against elemental heavy enemies. Plus it comes up often enough against neutral stacks to be decent.
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>>547681
>>547683
>AI get XP passively
I think AI only gets XP passively if they are in unexplored area.
I usually find the units in enemies' capital with almost max XP (eg XP 79/80, just 1 XP to level up).
I usually send a weak summon (preferably LVL 1 summons) to make them level up so I can get more XP when they come out of the capital.
But if I've explored the area around their capital, the units in capital stop gaining XP.
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>>549080
>Does anyone use the undead drags?
I used them during my first playthrough (way back when I was still in elementary school) and even then I noticed that they're more useful as a damage sponge than as a AoE damage dealer. They do look cool tho.
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>>549080
>They seem universally mediocre compared to other options.
Good frontline to tank damage and destroy enemy backline, but unlike legions big boys not that special. They are kinda useless being in undead roster. When you have arguably best mages in game for same purpose anyway.
>The 6 poison one seems okay
I honestly have no clue why dracolich path is even in game. You trade AOE poison, yeah with shit proc chance but still poison for 15-20 more damage on basic attack. Honestly everything about undead basically
>I could just have a Death or 5 deaths
>>
>>549289
iirc they get a lot of cheats when in fog like free spells for creeping, extra heroes, and the free xp. Its part of why human mage lords are good, because daylight removes all cheats
>>
>>549321
>>549931
They do indeed look cool. Dracolich desu is horrible though. I kept thinking I was missing something because they literally don't even outdamage the poison which is just sad if you think about it.
>>
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>>546708
Generally speaking this game favors "doomstacking" - putting most of the exp you can get your hands on into one main party (although it's really good if you have backup parties that also can stand up for themselves along with your main party). Your main party should be versatile - it should have sufficient frontline to be able to take hits and not fold, as well as means of attacking enemy backline so that units there don't get out of hand; your party also should preferably have more than one source of damage, at least by mid-game (as having only one type of damage (e.g. "weapon") will make certain battles impossible due to immunities). I would suggest that you start with Mountain Clans - it's a race without an innate healer - as it would skewer your impressions of unit strength and make you mis-evaluate enemy stacks, especially neutrals - but they still have a healing spell that make farming a better experience. Base game campaigns are a decent enough tutorial so that you can learn the game quickly and the story isn't too shabby either. Overall, a couple pointers:

>Learn to use Defend and Wait commands
>Scout the map with cheap summons
>ALWAYS scout ruins with summons/thieves before attacking
>Try to end turn with your party in a town/on your faction's soil (it gives bonus regeneration)
>Buffs in this game are crazy - just a couple of potions/buffing spells can turn an impossible battle into a breeze
>Don't sleep on spells that give movement speed.remove movement penalties - literally all of them are good
>Healer units get an additional turn at the end of battle

Finishing campaigns as all of the races will make you plenty acquainted with their quirks, and you can start experimenting with your builds, and getting into more advanced stuff - archers in the front line, tactical retreat to funnel exp, using meat shield t1 warriors etc


>>549018
As much as I prefer art direction in the second game, portraits in D1, especially humanoid, are absolutely beautiful
>>
>>550175
>start with Mountain Clans
>Learn to use Defend and Wait commands
most of them are too slow to exploit the defend command.
they are sturdy and hit hard though.
>>
>>550175
>I would suggest that you start with Mountain Clans
Honestly empire is more smooth and less punishing, unlike really slow clans.
>>
>>550191
My first playthrough in original saga was done in this order:
Empire, Legion, Horde, Clan.
>>
>>550175
What use does a skeleton have for hair?
>>
>>550337
One might trade mortality for knowledge, but style is eternal
>>
>>550337
Fashion and power. I also assume it's dead archon. Because hairstyle kinda similar.
>>
>>550175
>I would suggest that you start with Mountain Clans
Considering that the game tutorial starts you off with Empire, it makes sense to start playing with them in the Saga. You are right that having healers in your units can result in you underestimating enemy stacks, but it's better for them to familiarize themselves with the units from opposing factions without being punished for it, before starting to play as them.

>>550309
>Empire, Legion, Horde, Clan.
For me it was Empire > Clan > Horde > Legion.
>>
>>550337
Important to be ABAP.
>>
>>550191
>>550309
>>550712
iirc the human campaign is easier too. The dwarf one has some pitfalls where you can fuck up and die early on.
>>
I played a lot of this game when I was little and barely even knew English.
A few years ago I installed it and we tried to player multiplayer with a friend and it was pretty awesome, but taking turns was so damn boring and alt+tab wasn't working I think so we dropped it quick.

However this thread made me want to give it a try and finish the campaigns.
>>
>>550309
Yeah, that's what I'm going with in the first Disciples as well. Fits the lore as well, since the Legion has beef with the humies, while the Undead have beef with the Dwarves (killed Gallean).
>>
>>551711
I think the Undead had connection with the Legion too.
They were hunting mah boy Uther in the 2nd mission.
Mortis believes Uther's blood is required to bring Gallean back.
So Empire, Legion and Undead were connected by Uther.
Clan has nothing to do with Uther
>>551680
You can alt+tab but in more modern Windows, the game screen becomes gibberish when you alt+tab back.
There's a trick to make it good.
I don't know if the graphic patch posted here remedies the buggy graphic.
>>
>>551848
>Clan has nothing to do with Uther
But the very first Legion mission mentions Clans as discovering a new runic seal/spell/whatever that could lock Bethrezen for who knows how long, and one of the earlier Clans mission even has you meeting Uther for a short while.
So, even though Uther isn't a lynchpin in the Clans saga, he's still present in some way, shape and form.
>>
>>551979
Yeah, you're right.
I think Uther lived with the Clans after sometime after he disappeared in the mountain during his childhood.
The original Uther might have died but had been resurrected with Bethrezen's power.
>>
>>551979
>>551991
Why were the mountain clan campaigns so weird, compared to the others?
Not really bad, but just weird.
>>
>>552045
I don't know.
That's why MC campaign was the last campaign I tried.
>>
it's kind of cool but combat wise it's like a shitty homm so gets kind of old
>>
>>551991
Yeah uther was living with them for a while. I think he did die and get ressed. Isn't one of the missions in one of the sagas about killing him when he's normal/trying to prevent another race from killing him?
>>
>>552299
The Undead hunts Uther in his demon child form.
I think Uther died when he was lost in the mountain.
Then Bethrezen resurrect him and gave him his power so Bethrezen can be reborn.
He then lives with the Dwarves before the Empire found him.
The Undead mostly kills him before he lives with the Dwarves.
I could be wrong though, it's been a while since I played Disciples II.
>>
>>496033
The art is still top tier, but they somehow found a way to make it even grindier, but without as interesting or easy progression ability, then slapped it into a HoMM 5 clone battlefield. A pretty one, even for today's standards, but still.
>>
>>552324
>The art is still top tier
I think this is least popular opinion I ever witness. I like some changes, but dislike the most. Especially giving most models that MMO tier models. Which is not bad if you into that. "Not the same as D2" is strongest criticism aganist this game. And I can say this game was fucked by its publisher and they actually tried to fix it but it was too late. So thanks Akella, we won't miss you. What I really liked about game was music. Absolute banger.
>>
>>552501
Talking about Disciples music, I really like one of battle theme in Disciples II.
Many people, including me, heard some chanting at the end.
The chanting sounds like "Bethrezen".
Try hearing it, the chanting starts at 1:47.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A66pQIkpEOs
Fun fact:
The composer is Philippe Charron.
Charron is the ferryman who carried the souls of the dead to the underworld in Greek mythology.
>>
>>552514
>Fun fact
Here's a boring fact: the French last name 'Charron' is a metonymic occupational name for a cartwright, from Old French 'cart', and is completely unrelated to the Greek deity Charon.
>>
>>552514
My favorite is Combat #2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9VF3vZVFWg
>>
Wish the clans capital didn't look like a shanty town 2bh.
>>
>>552317
That sounds right. I remember he goes through most campaigns but with clans it was kinda half baked.
>>
>>552884
Both undead and clans focused on different tasks. With Mortis being ultimate cuckqueen and dwarfs all about muh runes and war between the gods. Uther is featured in second mission where he can die and dwarfs will claim his corpse just "vanish" and in third Morok declares war on Empire, because there is something wrong with muh boy Uther. And after that nothing? I honestly can't remember, because plot shifts towards runes. I think just like in Empire saga, you patch things up. But don't quote me on that. I remember you can help some humans and that's about it.
>>
Is there an easy way to increase/decrease unit xp requirements or do i need to manually adjust like 700 entries?
>>
>>553391
Or rather, where the leader XP values are stored, i can't seem to find them.
>>
>>553391
>manually adjust like 700 entries?
yes is
>>
>>495293
which games do I need. all I can find is Disciples 2 - Dark Prophecy and Gallean's Return and Rise of the Elves
>>
>>554633
that's all you need
>>
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>>524703
>which games do I need
I presume you have downloaded GOG's Gold edition, which has the Dark Prophecy (vanilla version of the game) merged with one of the expansions (Gallean's Return), while the other expansion (Rise of The Elves) is accessed separately. Now, here is where it gets complicated (and this is not GOG's fault). Galean's Return itself consists out of two mini-expansions - Guardians of the Light and Servants of the Dark - which add 2 mini-sagas each for the good and evil factions, respectively, which expand upon the vanilla sagas. More importantly, you are expected to import the hero (with all their skills and artifacts) that you used in the vanilla saga to play the expansion mini-sagas. Rise of the Elves is actual full-fledged expansion with a new Elven faction and a corresponding saga, as well as some re-balancing changes to spells, units etc. You CANNOT play everything on one version of the game. You will either miss out on the Elven saga and faction, or on the additional mini-sagas. I personally played the first version for the vanilla and expansion saga and then switched to the other version to do the Elven saga and play single scenarios.

TL;DR: Get it from GOG, play Gallean's Return and then close it off with Rise of The Elves.
>>
>>554711
actually the steam version is the most updated one
gog is outdated
>>
>>495293
Actually yes, I finished elf campaign last fall.
>>
>>555100
What's your Disciples 2 version?
You can see it in the main menu (lower left corner).
>>
>>555100
mods don't work with the steam version though
>>
>>555100
I don't think GOG version is outdated, the menu shows v2.01, but the executable reports v2.02.
>>
>>550309
>>550712
Canonically in Galleans return it is better to play Legions before Empire.
>>
BETHREZEN IS DYING
>>
I may have fucked up my Disciples 1 Legion run (or maybe not).
In the second mission, I'm up against both the empire and the clans. I don't have the third tier demonologist path upgrade building. However, I still went that route.
Should I restart the mission and go succ instead?
>>
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lmao
>>
>>557036
Single most remembered line in this game is about the devil dying.
>>
>>557550
>devil
Most beautiful angel. Tbh it is in the intro.
>IGNIS DEMONIA
Is the most remembered line.
>>
>>557232
I don't get it.
>>
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I only use the Duke when playing legions because he's aesthetic.
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>>558507
I mean good luck killing Uther with archdevil party.
>>
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>>558507
CHAD is the Pegasus Knight.
>>
>>558529
>faggot haircut
no
>>
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>>558507
>>
>>558507
I like Archduke more, but both are cool.
>>558513
Legions can reduce his accuracy to oblivion.
>>
>>558464
he wiped
>>
>>558507
Based.
>>
>>558507
Correct choice, has good combat animations too.
>>
>>558712
>Legions can reduce his accuracy to oblivion
No damage is a problem. Since he is immune to fire, which is legion main source of damage. Two incubus can make entire fight into a joke, unless you playing Gallean's.
>>
>>558950
>unless you playing Gallean's.
Why? I only remember in rise of the elves, they did some rebalancing.
>>
>>558507
the artstyle of D2 looks weird
>>
>>560559
Yeah, I was talking about RoE rebalance. Fuck. Basically they change incubus damage type from earth to mind.
>>
>>560622
? No they don't. Incubus is always earth.
>>
>>560674
>Incubus is always earth
Weird It's like I mix everything up. Shit, you right. What was I thinking fighting Uther without them.
>>
>>560721
Witches are mind. They are also useless, but that's beside the point.
>>
>>560769
>useless
No wards, armor or big boy damage even for few turns is not that bad. But incubus is much better option.
>>
>>560812
>No wards, armor, or big boy damage even for few turns
The problem is, that the enemy can make his polymorph saving throw before he attacks and big guys usually turn back immedeately.
Even worse, big imps have 50 Initiative, giving them even a boost, by attacking faster.
>>
>>560817
Sure, this is why I'm saying incubus is so much better. Still worth it tho.
>>
>>557578
I love the Latin chanting of Legion heroes when you click them on the map.
>>
>>563733
GLORIA DEMONIA!
>>
>>560817
Witches do have some niche uses. They are the only single target lockdown unit in the roster for demons so if you really want one its there. I think its an appropriate balance spot. They aren't good, but they do provide something the incubus can't and give a boost of power right away if you want it.

Incubus is straight nutty tho. 65% base hit with a dmg type that is borderline impossible to ward against except for humans and I've literally never seen an earth immunity. Petrify is also a fantastic debuff. Plus the incubus has actual hp at base levels so it won't just be the one-shot target for everything.
>>
>>565535
>earth immunity
Golem
Stone Ancestor
>>
>>565535
>incubus has actual hp
I think succubus bolster higher HP pool compare to incubi. 145 or something. While having worse accuracy. Best Legion mage is demonologist anyway. His /fa/ sense is beyond any mortal.
>>
>>560817
>polymorph
did they change the fear mechanic in the second game? what does polymorph do
>>
>>565668
Baronessa is only unit that cause fear in second game. In original anyway.
>what does polymorph do
Polymorph transform unit into imp/fat imp depending on size. Remove all immunities, wards and armor (only base armor, buffs from spells/cities still work). Unit still have same HP pool, but imp tier damage and initiative. Well he also can change back almost instantly so it's even more RNG based compare to paralyzed effect.
>>
>>565668
>>565704
Succubi aren't really worth it. Either go Modeus or Incubus.
>>
Probably wrong thread to ask, but might be worth a shot. Can you switch unit models? For example I want my ranger hero to have assassin model. Is this even possible in first place?
>>
>>566761
Not really. It would take a shitton of work.
>>
>>566887
Thanks. Swapping models with existing seems kinda simple on paper, but I guess there is more than "a few extra steps" behind it.
>>
>>565600
Forgot about those two. Good point.

>>565660
Her accuracy is much lower and as people mentioned poly is worse than petrify, although it has some uses since, like >>565704 mentions it clears immunities and wards. Most people just lock on witch for the single target lockdown if they want that.
>>
>>568033
>much lower
More like nonexistent, which I find weird. You can buff accuracy anyway. Sadly legion and undead both kinda forgot to bring any accuracy buff spells, which I find kinda weird. Because both factions have emphasis on deal damage/debuffs compare to more "good" factions. So you just kinda stack potions and look for some random ass spells.
>>
>>569183
Yeah, their emphasis on debuffs and direct damage is quite the downgrade, since most of the heavy-duty fighting is inside ruins and towns, where you can't debuff/damage the defenders via spells.
>>
>>569183
>>569205
Debuffs are generally meh, but they are also stronger in some ways because you can combine them with potions for a lot more of a stat swing. I don't mind that the evil races focus on debuffs either, it just seems more in character for them. I think its mostly fair to be cautious with the available debuffs, if you've ever run the accuracy down one against something like a dragon for example it can be just as effective as having wards and just totally removes most mages from a fight before it happens. Plus undead have arguably the best ward in the game in the weapon ward and demons have the invisibility spell along with the restore fog of war stuff, both of which are just nutty.
>>
>>570130
Invisibility is great with flying heroes, you can scout around an enemy capital with a random baroness, and even do the "pop a rod, cloaking field up" right in their back yard.
>>
>>570130
>Debuffs are generally meh
Something like -50 armor for 100 mana is "meh"? I mean, sure not a lot of units pack armor in sagas. But you have to fight at least few gargs and orcs. And that one elven lady. And this one is good there.
>it just seems more in character for them
I just don't get it. Few buffs to hit hard would make more sense from "forces of pure destruction", no healers is whatever. Can sustain on pure rage alone.
>Plus undead have arguably the best ward in the game
They have furries and death incarnation. Ward is more like consolation prize at this point.
>restore fog of war stuff
This is undead thing. Legions can cover small area with fog, which is not really super usefull, because AI will never nuke you with 500 spells he have stored. From gameplay perspective, I don't mind that everyone have different kind of magic. But sometimes when you playing on mage lord with faction that have 0 healers and you can't even spend manna for buffs. It's kinda. Meh. At least nuking AI strongest party always fun and magic looks cool.
>>
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What the fuck was his problem?
>>
>>570369
Not the actual effects they have, specifically their lack of ability to target things inside cities. I mention the size of the stat swings literally in that same sentence, idk why you're calling me out. You are entirely right that some of the debuffs are really potent, they tend to provide a bit more than the buffs in terms of raw numbers but buffs also can go into any fight and provide things debuffs do not like the wards.

Generally good=build up bad=tear down in most games. Debuffs tear down. Idk, maybe if they flavored the buffs different I'd agree but that's just my opinion or whatever, its not like its gospel or you have to agree or anything.

Weapon ward is really good. Thanatos is really good. They get good spells, that one just happens to be a buff is all.

Its good for protecting rod planters. AI will spell them down if they can, and usually throw a 30 damage at them every turn they're on their land.
>>
>>571025
Being trapped in salty dungeon and enslaved by demigod of questionable age later.
>>
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>>571025
>What the fuck was his problem?
Nothing, actually. IIRC, he was stuck in a dungeon for who knows how long, got released, realized that Bethrezen is basically at death's doorstep and that Uther was somehow absorbing Bethrezen's power. Then he did what any sane demon would do - immediately switch sides to serve the more powerful master and continue to rise in rank so he could possibly at one point get to the top himself.
>>
>>573711
>any sane demon would do
>demon
>sane
Tbh they seem to value loyalty more. That would explain how Asteroth got btfo at least 3 times.
>>
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Was Uther originally evil?
Or did he get corrupted by Bethrezen's power?
Or did he die and Bethrezen put a demon's soul in his body?
>>
>>573794
>Or did he get corrupted by Bethrezen's power?
I think this one. He was intended as Bethrezen vessel, but at some point something went wrong. I think in sacred lands his mother had a thing for fallen angels too.
>>
>>573827
What's the story of Disciples 1?
>>
>>573866
Good question. Sadly, I don't remember shit. In short summary ripped from D2
>demons kidnap Uther and Emperor wife, transfer Bethrezen soul inside child
>empire being btfo by almost everyone teaming up with dwarfs to fight evil
>Mortis seething about her husband almost wiped all manlets, undead kill their current high king and she just fucks off
>clans looking for runes
>>
>>573960
Seems pretty much the same with Disciples 2.
Demon: Uther
Empire: kill evil
Mortis: husband
Clan: doing some clan business
>>
>>573794
>>573827
Wait what? Didn't Uther got possessed by another powerful demon, who pretended to be Bethrezen?
>>
>>573980
Well there is a bit more to it, but yeah.
>>573998
>got possessed
I'm not sure how entire possesion/god soul transfer thing work. But I think pattern goes like that
>Uther!=Uther with Bethrezen soul!=Bethrezen. He indeed became full fledged demon durning final missions of Empire/Legions.
>pretended to be Bethrezen?
They just never asked tho.
>>
>>573980
Just a few clarifications:
Demosthene wants an heir (Uther). The Legions attempt to kidnap the queen and Uther, however Imperial forces capture the city where the queen was held. She's killed by mistake, but they cannot find Uther. Demosthene rages, and orders all demonic forces to be wiped out wherever they can be found.
And Mortis kills the dwarven High King as part of her roaring rampage of revenge/attempt to res Gallean.

I'm currently playing through the Disciples 1 Legions campaign, after having gone through the Empire one, however it feels like I should've played the Legions one first, given the story.
>>
>>574079
>however it feels like I should've played the Legions one first, given the story.
Same as in Gallens return.
>>
>>574119
I'll definitely do that after I (eventually) finish all Disciples 1 sagas. I like playing stuff in the proper narrative order.
Not looking forward to the Disciples 1 Undead saga though. The combo of having to fight shittons of neutral undead with Death immunity, and having the Dwarves as enemy (fire damage from Flamecasters, water damage from all their other assorted troops, bypassing Weapon Immunity) makes for a pretty bad experience. Also, you're pretty much forced to use a Lich Queen as your main leader. Since she doesn't fly, a lot of movement will be wasted by sailing.
>>
>>574133
>sailing
I think Boots of the Elements (no movement penalty for sailing) is better than Boots of Seven Leagues (+60% movement) in maps with lots of water.
>>
>>574184
Disciples 1 doesn't have travel items. The only item I've found thus far which impacts strategic movement is the Tome of the Winds, which eliminates the sailing penalty. But using it is cumbersome, since you only have two item slots in total on a leader, and it's annoying having to add/remove it. Plus I'd rather not use up one of the item transfer slots with it (better take along a banner or staff). Plus I'd rather pick up Banner Bearer instead of Arcane Knowledge at level up.
>>
>>574202
I remember how much of a dragg the first map of the mountain clan campaign was because you are so slow.
>>
>>574220
Yeah, in the Disciples 1 Clans saga you absolutely have to pick the Scout as your primary hero, since the other two have atrocious movement.
>>
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>tfw you simp for your ally
>tfw you buy all of his shitty spells, he offers, only so he never breaks the alliance.
>>
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>>574248
>buy all his spells
>ransack his capitol
>everyone in the party gets a level up
>>
>>574270
I just want someone I can share the victory with
>>
>>574248
>trade offer for 500 g
>turn 1
>I have 250
>"Why can't we make deals?"
Fuck you too, buddy.
>>
>>574335
poorfag btfo
>>
>>574477
>ask twice the price for a flask
Clansmen hands typed this post.
>>
>>574496
How Jewish are Disciples Dwarves?
>>
>>574812
Not that jewish. They somewhat similar to warhammer dwarfs. If that make sense. With runes/traditions, but have no autism drawback. They also prefer to chill in mountains and craft shit. Also dying race who was genocided by godess with main speciality to spread plagues.... Wait. Oh SHI~!
>>
>>574335
This is the most frustrating thing. They seem to always offer me things right after I complete a massive upgrade or something and I can't afford it. Then you just know they're about to break the alliance on your ass and send a million rod planters out from the fog to annoy you for the next 30 turns.
>>
Is there a way to play Galleans Return Campaign with the Rise of the Elves stat balances?
>>
>>496715
>Which parts of HoMM would be welcome in a Disciples game?
A very good random map generator.
>>
>>497377
If you imported your maxed hero with the right kind of artefacts for him it shouldn't be a problem no matter what you choose. Party composition depends on that a lot as well.
>>
>>541488
>and I believe the Dagger can heal for approximately the same amount
Each dagger adds +25% to damage dealt to a target being converted to attacker's HPs. So a Nosferatu with 2 daggers can have 100% of damage he deals added to his HPs.
>>
>>547659
>Like main hero is roadplanter, shit upgrades, not picking lich queen for undead saga.
Have you really never tried going through the respective campaign with a Banshee or an Archangel? The only shitty rod planter type is the Baroness, everyone else is at least viable. The elven Sage or whatever he is called is pretty lousy too but at least he doesn't drive you up the wall with the only non-generic combat action available to him.
>>
>>547825
One of the major advantages Disciples II has is that every faction is broken in several ways if you know how to play them right.
>>
>>576155
But I was talking about making start somewhat hard, again no matter what is main hero at some point it's just snowball and vacuuming the map. At least both banshee/archangel start is tough.
>The only shitty rod planter type is the Baroness
Spook turns into paralyze in towns, but yeah absurd amount of XP legions need to make their units good. But as far as roadplanters go. She is okay, flying + same fear to scare some summons.
>The elven Sage
>bad
He can just swarm with endless ammount of ent fodder, while archers clean house. Can be tricky sometimes, but doable.
>>
>>549080
>Does anyone use the undead drags?
I used to, back when it was 50/50 damage with like 80%/50% hit chance. Hordes have way too many other cool things to play with so nowadays I almost never do.
>>
>>576198
>Spook turns into paralyze in towns
I know.

>But as far as roadplanters go. She is okay, flying + same fear to scare some summons.
No, she's terrible. The summon will simply immediately attack again because it was summoned right beside her party. And if it's a ranger or an AoE summon she's guaranteed toast on that turn. Similar if her party was softened up by a damage spell.

>He can just swarm with endless ammount of ent fodder, while archers clean house.
Unless the enemy has enough damage that reaches to the back row. In which case all his trees go poof along with him.
>>
>>576239
>And if it's a ranger or an AoE
AI never drop high tier summons on your head. Mostly something like Belial or armor, ent sometimes. But no Valkyries, nightmares or something like avenger. Unless it's scripted. Well no avenger even if this scripted too, but still.
>Unless the enemy has enough damage that reaches to the back row
That's why you use archers and stack armor. I would be more worried about status effects.
>>
>>576239
>>576255
>10 initiative
If only a Sage has high initiative, he can bring 1 archer and keep spamming trees to prevent melee only enemies (not enough attack to kill the tree in 1 turn) to attack the back row.
>>
>>576239
The getting re-attacked issue happens with everyone though. Most rod planters cant cheese encounters against ranged or AoE and many of them can only really retreat against single targets and pray for a miss to let them get out before dying. Ironically the rod planter always beats single targets and is the best at cheesing summons and the baroness can survive where a lot of the other rod planters can't because fear lets you get rid of a unit after 1 attack where they get 2 against retreating units. I would strongly disagree that those two are the worst, particularly since sages have forestwalk and more base movement than other rod planters too.
>>
>>576255
>no Valkyries
>nightmares
Yeah no. These two specifically? All the damn time. Whenever the computer player has the mana it's summons galore. The last tier is incredibly rare, probably due to the cost. Maybe it also depends on the difficulty, I don't think I've ever played on anything below hard and that was once at the very beginning.
Avengers seem a bit rare in my experience, same with Thanatos.

>That's why you use archers
How does that help with not getting the Baroness herself killed? Relevant summons have 200+ HPs and she only has 1 leadership.

>and stack armor.
At the end of every turn?
>>
>>576291
This is all correct except my post he was replying to was about using a rod bearer as the main hero. About 7th level Banshee gets more hit points and greater chance to paralyze. A Loremaster will have tons of HPs and decent damage. An Archangel will get by too.
>>
>>576412
>Maybe it also depends on the difficulty
The difficulty affect AI XP gains per turn and how much shit you have at start, I think. There is no hidden "summon better shit" trigger.
>How does that help with not getting the Baroness herself killed?
Sorry, I was talking about Sage. But onyx gargoyle have good armor and can indeed kill backline from get go to avoid some damage from mages/archers.
>Relevant summons have 200+ HPs and she only has 1 leadership
Only single summon immune to mind is living armor.
>At the end of every turn?
At every chance you have. So by mission three you should have at least 20.
>>
>>576438
Okay, I've mistaken your previous post as talking about the classes in general, not if used as the main hero.
Of course both of them work as mains because if you put enough experience points into any hero it can at least tank. Those two suck at it, though.
An Archangel can at least heal and decently so. Loremaster is an otherwise featureless fighter with low initiative. Banshee is outright great. And all of their abilities grow with time, either chance to hit, damage dealt/healed or both.
Sage summons the same lame 100 HPs trees and Baroness does not improve whatsoever.
>>
Fuck, it's not "Loremaster", it's "Dwarf Champion".
>>
>>576449
I think I'm also at fault for trying to adress multiple points in single post. And yeah, I agree about Baroness. She is kinda bad pick for main hero, because how legions work. But you still can use it, because she turns into discount banshee in cities.
>Sage summons the same lame 100 HP
It's still AI frontline wasting turns killing same lame ent children. I don't think sage is bad pick if you want main hero as roadplanter. Tbh. Since you don't have other options. I mean think about it. It's not like you can get archangel as legions or sage as Empire.
>>
>>576472
>It's still AI frontline wasting turns killing same lame ent children.
I'm not getting your setup for Sage, I think. You ought to get an extra leadership point ASAP to have more than one archer.
So, on the first turn, you have the archers trade volleys, then your back row gets hit by enemy melee at their leisure, then your hero summons an ent and it maybe survives until the next turn. Right?

>Since you don't have other options.
Yeah, that's why I weren't even mentioning them. Too tiresome and lame from what I've experienced.
>>
>>576480
>I'm not getting your setup for Sage
Basically watcher line bolster high initiative to kill mages/archers. You trade hits because AI will probably, should focus sage. Entire fight depend on you actually surviving long enough to pop ent. You can say fuck it and get healer with extra LD. DESU I don't remember if I actually manage to finish elven saga with this "whacky" setup. I remember finishing it with 6 archers stack tho.
>Too tiresome and lame from what I've experienced
Yeah. It's more about setup on global map compare to combat.
>see target
>summon some ents
>cast few buffs, debuffs, damage spells
>use theif to duel leader
>send sage and pray he will survive untill the end of combat to get XP
>>
>>576502
>Entire fight depend on you actually surviving long enough to pop ent.
Okay, that's why I've never even attempted this. Too risky. Beside the obvious problem of eventually hitting 5 leadership with the Sage.

>elven saga
What still makes me salty is how you get all those amazing edited heroes in the dragon quest, making the one you've been transferring from quest 1 pointless. I think one of the Dryads is especially bullshit there.
>>
>>576513
>Too risky
Elves just suck. I can't stress enough how much I hate them. Would like dark elves tho. And since you main hero is not designed to be main hero. Yeah, it's risky.
>hitting 5 leadership with the Sage
I think this makes sage kinda suck. You have summoner who spend entire fight in defence stance, because someone more usefull occupying slot. 3-4 is okay enough.
>>
>>576523
>Elves just suck.
Far from it. They have at least two very powerful compositions: one is Dryad, Marauder, Sylph and Chargers to fill the front row; another is Guardian and two Chargers in the front row with Marauder, Sylph and Theurgist in the back. You can ditch the Sylph entirely for a second Marauder or Theurgist in the latter if you are feeling particularly reckless.
>>
>>576428
Fair. One thing to remember though is that leadership caps regardless of the hero type. So if you run an elven rod planter (or just keep the higher leveled one they give you partway through the campaign) you can actually make use of the summons moderately effectively since you'll have the space for it. That said the ents don't improve so its really diminishing returns all around I guess.
>>
>>577386
>One thing to remember though is that leadership caps regardless of the hero type.
Do you mean there are only 2 leadership points that can be taken on level-ups? Was a Gold version change? Because I'm pretty sure rod planters could get all the way to 5 but they'd lose on some of the must-haves like wards because they'd still only get new abilities until level 16.
>>
Nope, just checked. Archangel got her 5th slot on level 10.
>>
>>576513
>>576523
You can't actually hit 5 leadership with any rod planter. There's only 2 leadership increases regardless of hero, they all have the same pool of skills for levelups. I've done the elves run with a rod planter by using the one they give you at level 5ish in the campaign, he can't go above that 2 leadership.

Also yeah I found elves to be among the better races. Most races are pretty well balanced in this game though, but elves tend to spike early with their unit evolutions which allows them to pack a ton of levelups. They have a weird spell list, combination of debuffs and buffs, that tends to be a bit weaker than just focusing in one area like other races. Still, they can do some real damage with certain spells and some shine a lot more in multiplayer than single.
>>
>>577407
>You can't actually hit 5 leadership with any rod planter. There's only 2 leadership increases regardless of hero
I just did, in Gold. The last point was offered at hero level 10.
>>
>>577407
>You can't actually hit 5 leadership with any rod planter. There's only 2 leadership increases regardless of hero
And now I just did in RotE. Same quest, same class.
>>
>>577413
>>577426
I stand corrected. I could have sworn I didn't get more leadership levelup offers, maybe its just a quirk of that specific rod planter or I'm just completely misremembering. Either way, thanks for the infos anons.
>>
Is there a more fun spell, than depleting your enemy's whole movement?
>>
>>577480
I don't blame you, I think I've seen something like that somewhere too. Probably a mod. Or it was like that in the original, back when there was actual semblance of an AI.
Did you know that in the earliest released versions Infernal Knights had 50% health regeneration? Everyone else had 10. There are other things that IMO didn't really need changing.
>>
Why is the Councelor so good but looks so shit compared to the other demon heroes?
>>
>>579511
He also sounds like a faggot
>>
>>579511
His Xbow animations is pretty cool. But yeah D3 and Sacred lands variant is more pleasing in terms of actual model.
>>
>>579801
In Sacred Lands he sounds like a constipated imp. I know, because I'm currently playing through the sagas.
>>
>>579863
>like a constipated imp
That's just how he sounds in both games, I think.
>>
>>573998
The way I understand it is that Bethrezen tried to possess him but only managed to infuse his soul with a part of him, making Uther himself into a "new" Bethrezen
>>
>>558507
Same but with Nosferatu.
>>
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>>579888
A toast to the trips of based Nosferat chad.
is it even worth going any other hero as undead? once he gains a few levels he becomes op as fuck, aside from the boner lord
>>
>>580566
Death damage source.
Lots of undeads are immune to death.
>>
>>580578
you can work around that though
>>
>>580566
Deathknight if you want to move F A S T. And Banshee for 10/10 voicelines, but also cucking enemy capital defenders.
>>
File: master fuck.png (2.69 MB, 1445x967)
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This is your encounter for half your movement points.
Say something nice to it.
>>
>>582997
>75 fucking initiative
>30 damage
>20 poison damage
>110 HP
>Up to 20 fuckers per average mission
>>
>>583138
Everything can be countered with enough thief spam.
>>
>>583211
>Everything can be countered with enough thief spam
You like little baby, watch this.
*unzips spellbook*
*cast deus talonis on master thug party*
Nothing personal, mortal.
>>
>>582997
I have healers.
>>
>>582997
What's the name of his haircut?
>>
>>583366
"nice tier 1 units kid"
>>
>>583138
don't forget that they're worth fucking nothing for xp. Worst goddamn enemies in the game.
>>
>>583305
>turn 1
>hardest difficulty (start with less resources)
>capitol surrounded by master thugs
nothing personal
>>
A friendly reminder Bethrezen did nothing wrong, the other gods are /r9k/-tier tards and the Allfather is autistic.
>>
>>584353
>other gods are /r9k/-tier tards
You mean Wotan, Gallean and Mortis(forgot her original name)?
Or the angels who were jealous of Bethrezen?
>>
>>584355
All of them are autistic, Bethrezen got redpilled real hard.
>>
>>584355
>forgot her original name
Solonielle. But she is fully Mortis now, the elven goddess is well and truly dead.
>>
>>584353
>Allfather
Highfather
>>
>>584275
Time to leave a bunch of skeletons in the base and cycle through tier 1s
>>
>>584391
Dumbfather.
>>
How would you guys feel about a Disciple-like game in the Trench Crusade setting?
>>
>>586102
>trench crusade
is this an epic new meme genre like vaporwave?
>>
>>586123
It's a fictional setting taking place in a super-grim, occult WW1-like era where there is an eternal war between the forces of the Church and countless heretic cults.
>>
>>586154
so yes
>>
>>586163
If you say so. I actually didn't understand the buzzwords you used. I have no idea what a "epic new meme genre like vaporwave" means. I am neither not autistic or not retarded enough.
>>
>>586168
words of pure cope, but alas
let's not shit up this decent thread any longer
>>
>>584353
The Allfather was an idiot but the God who just was evil, was Wotan.
>>
>>586465
>Wotan
>Evil
Lich hands..
>>
Everyone's a retard and all is fucked. The end.
>>
>>586465
What's Wotan's problem with Gallean?
Why did he kill Gallean?
>>
>>586566
He wanted his wife.
>>
>>586566
>Why did he kill Gallean?
Elves flee from burning boys invasion in dwarf lands, dwarfs slaugthered them because they thought it's full scale invasion from pointy ears. When Gallean came to Wotan asking for justice, Wotan went REEE and rip his heart out.
>>
>>587045
>dwarves being autistic retards
Seems pretty lore-accurate.
>>
>>586913
He didn't do it right if it made Mortis became crazy.
>>587045
How dare he asked for justice when the dorfs dindu nuffin'.
>>
>>587063
>>587064
In Wotan defence. Gallean basically insult his creations calling them manlets and demand that Wotan himself punish killers. Imagine some faggy forest tree boy with his pillow waifu demanding from fantasy (not) Odin.
>>
>>587071
>Imagine some faggy forest tree boy with his pillow waifu demanding from fantasy (not) Odin.
There is it again. The retarded dwarf talk.
Plus Wotan isn't on the same level as the Norse Odin here.
>>
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when
>>
why of all gods only Mortis and Bethrezen look good.
like baddest fuckers of all setting.
>>
>>587239
>retarded dwarf talk
>god of fucking elves refusing to help his kin in need
>refusing to pop up to stop dwarfs from slaughtering elves
>goes to bitch about treachery to Wotan who has some anger management issue
I'm not saying he should argue this with Bethrezen, but holy shit. He is also at wrong here.
>>587244
>frostbite
>bethesda
Never. I hope.
>>
whe elvis just dont said HEEEEEEEEEEELP
>>
>>587250
>frostbite
>bethesda
I hope at least in 20xx
i don't want this awakening thingy
>>
>>587253
Elves don't understand diplomacy. Their saga is highlight of this.
>better shoot that guy who help us
>better summon that dragon at crucial negotiation, despite blue girl apparently the actuall queen of elves told to not do that
>>
>>587263
are elves retarded?
>>
>>587271
As long as plot demands it. It's actually hard to name someone in this setting who is not retarded to some extent. I guess that would be undead, because they have no free will and demons too far gone to care.
>>
>>587250
Is that part about the lore from Disciples 3?
In 2 it was only said that Wotan threw Galeans heart into the sun because he wanted his girl.
>>
>>587271
That was one guy and the others all called him a retard for doing this.
I think it was implied that the return of their god had a negative effect on them.
>>
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>>587297
>Is that part about the lore from Disciples 3?
It's from D2 manual addon.
>>
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>>587311
Here is original. So this is legit lore retcon. I don't remember D3 lore so good. Besides Mortis being cucked. Again.
>>
>>587311
>>587319
Weird that they retconned something in a fucking addon. Maybe they thought they made Wotan way too evil.
I remember in Disciples 3, they added that Mortis learned Necromancy from a race over the ocean, that used undead as a cheap working force.
One of the few instances, where Necromancers aren't necessarily evil.
>>
>>587355
>Weird that they retconned something in a fucking addon
I think this is kinda minor plot point. Because version with Wotan not being jelous cunt is most common and don't break things too much. Unlike Alkmaar kingdom. Or D3 in general.
>>
>>586499
Gallean might have been deserving of it, but Wotan pretending he dindu nuffin after what Mortis went through is completely asinine. That doesn't mean dwarves are cunts but their god sure is.
>>
>>588244
>after what Mortis went through
Solonielle is not same person as Mortis. Mortis alone rampage through clans land. BTFO their hight king. Wotan don't care about Mortis or Gallean so much. Idk. If I remember correctly from sagas, Mortis keep fucking with manlets both in Guardins of Light saga and Rise of the elves too. So yeah, she basically alone genocide most clans through sheer trickery and bruteforce. She also killed most Gallean's elves. Not even demons deal so much damage to Nevendar compare to both Gallean and Mortis. >That doesn't mean dwarves are cunts but their god sure is
You also can say the same about undead. Or Empire.
>>
>>588433
>Solonielle is not same person as Mortis.
Yes, but after she have returned she was no longer the elven goddess. What I meant is that no matter what the now completely deranged goddess of the undead is doing now, Wotan should in no way be guilt-free.

>You also can say the same about undead. Or Empire.
Most intelligent undead actually are cunts, while their deity is merely insane. And if there is anything beside overwhelming pain and grief left rattling in that skull of hers, her unwavering dedication to reviving her husband speaks enough.
Humans are all over the place while Highfather is just a gullible retard who could have fixed everything right after the deception became apparent and Bethrezen did not yet go utterly mad from the injustice inflicted upon him.
Nevendaar must be one of the most cursed places in all creation.
>>
>>588433
>>588456
Most independent intelligent undead, rather.
>>
>>588456
>Wotan should in no way be guilt-free
That's implying I said something along the lines of Wotan being guilt free in first place. Like I posted above, Wotan paid for being raging retard. Clans almost fully wiped out.
>Most intelligent undead actually are cunts
Bonelord armor aside. I think even controlled by Mortis rarely murderhappy if you don't stand in their path. They are evil tho. So it depends.
>Humans are all over the place
Master thugs and rampant inqusition aside, humans were also fucked with by other angels and then by demons. So yeah, they gonna be all over the place.
>>
>>588477
>That's implying I said something along the lines of Wotan being guilt free in first place.
You talking about the Hordes laying waste to the Clans made that impression, yes.

>Like I posted above, Wotan paid for being raging retard. Clans almost fully wiped out.
And here it is again. While it was most certainly painful for him to have his children slaughtered, Wotan himself is unaffected. This does not have to be Mosaic law, but dwarves will regain their numbers in time and, from what I remember, even those who have died in those wars have gone straight to their god's domain so not that much of a punishment overall.

>I think even controlled by Mortis rarely murderhappy if you don't stand in their path.
You are mostly dealing with those loyal to her in the sagas, but in the official quests they are selfish and pretty hostile to anyone else (including other independent undead whenever they think that they have the upper hand).
>>
As a longtime HOMM and Warlords player, I'm just discovering this game and holy shit this is one of the prettiest looking games I've ever seen, so much soul

Do I start with Gallean's Return on Steam or get the Gold edition on GOG?
>>
>>588501
If you want to play Disciples 2, play the original saga first then the expansion (Guardians of Light + Servants of the Dark), last is Rise of the Elves.
>>
>>588503
Sweet, thanks. Is there a reason to not to jump straight into Rise of the Elves?
>>
>>588521
Disciples II is all about sagas (campaigns). There is no random map generator like in SoD.
>>
>>588532
That's fine, thanks anon. I managed to install the wrapper and this game already looks pretty amazing. I'm thinking of binging it tomorrow by the looks of it.

Last thing, I read >>543945 and I also found https://www.moddb.com/mods/d2rote-lazy-mod for potential mods, should I install any of these off the bat or just go vanilla?
>>
>>588500
>You talking about the Hordes laying waste to the Clans made that impression
This is just something that happened. It's Wotan 's fault. I mean if Mortis went to him and rip his heart out that would be pretty fitting end, but alas. Who am I to argue about methods?
>Wotan himself is unaffected
Ragnarok ahem. I would assume it would be hard to affect god in first place. But still Wotan himself need help of his mortal followers to win the fight.
>dwarves will regain their numbers in time
If we take D3 they not and never will. In D2 future of dwarfs left uncertain by the end. Well the series die after second game anyway. So it's pure speculation. Again saying dwarfs not affected by death of all dwarfs, just because they go in magical valhalla is like saying Gallean is left unaffected by slaughter of his kin and just took another vacation. Maybe this is the case tho. So I'm not sure.
>loyal to her in the sagas
Last missions mostly. They don't care about Empire or dwarfs. Also if you playing any other saga. Undead here are mostly neutral to you. Like dark elve Lyf/Lin (?) I think ask you to fuck off, since it's none of you buisness or mission before where they target mostly Uther.
>>588521
>straight into Rise of the Elves
Rise of the elves feature all original sagas, but not guardians of light/servants of darkness expansion for some weird reason.
>>
>>588544
The original is perfectly playable and there is nothing in dire need of fixing. I'm surprised you needed a wrapper but I've never moved past win7.
>>
>>588545
Original saga + expansions + RotE = Gold Edition
>>
>>588553
Is this a yet another "Gold version"?

Straight from the readmes:
v2.02
Disciples II Gold
Dark Prophecy
&
Gallean's Return
(Guardians of the Light)
(Servants of the Dark)

v3.01
Disciples II Gold
Dark Prophecy
&
Rise of the Elves
>>
>>588557
GOG's Disciples 2 Gold
www.gog.com/game/disciples_2_gold
>>
>>588244
>That doesn't mean dwarves are cunts but their god sure is.
Which is rather weird. Considering it is established, that all non-human races are highly affected by their gods, you might think dwarves are bigger assholes.
>>
>>589173
If that was true most Nevendaar humans would have been inflexible stubborn retards unable to see past the most basic deception. So that rules out even the inquisition because they are very good at weaving and recognizing/countering all kinds of plots. I guess mortals inherit other traits, like physical build or disregard for hardships in the Wotan's children case.
>>
>>588521
I'd wait until last for the elves. Mapwise their missions are a bit off, I think they wanted to make it challenging for people that played the other expansions so they starve you out for resources and only have one grove mana node on many of them. Noobwise their healers are also not very good, at least compared to empire. If you really have a hankering for elves play a couple of the original campaigns first to get a feel for the game, going straight into it probably isn't the best idea.





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